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WELL, JUST HOW badly do you need to win?
And that’s “need” – not “want”. The ultra-competitive among us will know that failing just isn’t an option. It’s do or die for those that love to win, while the more laidback are mystified by people who just always have to be right, or first, or the best.
Ah, competition. It’s the spice of life.
Let’s roll that dice and find out how you score…
One place you can embrace your competitive streak this week is McDonalds. They’re introducing a brand new MONOPOLY game in their restaurants from this Wednesday 20 July - win prizes instantly or collect streets to win even bigger prizes. Play with your mates and see who comes out on top. Sundaes on the loser…Find out more here.
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The issue won’t go away until the Spanish government allow a referendum. The more they resist the more determined the nationalists get.
@Fergus Kavanagh: wouldn’t the whole country have to vote for it to actually be a democratic decision?
@Dave O Keeffe:
Presumably you don’t think the Scots should be allowed to cecede from the UK unless an overall majority of UK (predominently English) voters agree to it then?
@Dave O Keeffe: ya that would be the common sense thing to do but don’t expect politicians to be straight, take Scottish referendum a few years ago if the English & Welsh had a say in it you could pretty much guarantee they would be independent now
@Avina Laaf: Scotland is a country
@Dave O Keeffe:
*Which is part of a democratic legally binding union
There, fixed that for you.
@Dave O Keeffe: Their own status as separate country is what they’re seeking, so you’re putting the cart in front of the horse.
Spain is made up of 15 separate regions, much the same way as the USA is made up of 50 different states. You might say Texas isn’t a country, merely a state, but they have the option to legally secede from the rest of the US. A Texan can say they are American but will say they are far from the same as being a Californian. The Catalonians are saying the same thing, they identify as being different from the other regions in Spain. If a majority in the region wish to separate from the rest of Spain, how can that be said to be undemocratic?
@Avina Laaf: Scotland is a country, the entire country voted, they decided Scotland would remain in the UK
@Dave O Keeffe:
You missed the point Dave. By your logic even if the Scots voted unanimously for independence it shouldn’t be allowed unless the rest of the UK agreed to it.
@Patrick Kearns: Catalonian’s speak Cat Alan as opposed to most of Spain which speak Castillano.
The real reason the Catalunyans want independence isn’t to do with a sense of nationhood, or cultural pride, it’s purely borne out of greed. It is the wealthiest part of Spain and they merely want to cast off the plebs so they can roll in their own money.
@Atheos Euripides: true. But please don’t talk about catalans as a whole. It’s a diverse society where the majority don’t want this. Catalan is not catalan nationalism.
@Atheos Euripides:
May or may not be true, but either way they have a right to self-determination regardless of their reasons.
@Atheos Euripides: why shouldn’t they have a referendum if that’s what the majority wants, it’s also a good chance to see how democratic the EU really is, will they recognise the Catalonians democratic wishes.
@Avina Laaf: false. Totally false. Read some international law.
@Atheos Euripides: And fair play to them..
@Massa: so your view is there should be no regional self determination? Why should they be forced to stay a part of a country they no longer want to be in? Unless you just want to preserve the current social hierarchy of things.
@Cicero: i don’t Say there shouldn’t be. I don’t care. Just follow the rules of democracy. Which are not just voting. There are ways of doing it. Just for the record. And it’s very easy to check for all of you. They are 35% of census. This is a complex topic.but be aware of propaganda…
@Atheos Euripides:
So what if they want to roll in their own money, fair play to them.
@Remy: yeah , like the bankers or the Rich. They should be free to decide if they pay taxes or not. And Dublin to decide if they fund poorer counties. Hahaha guys ….
@Massa: In 2014 in a practice vote the independence side got around 80%
@Jindrich Marz: yeah 40% of people voting… Total success!!! really guys…
@Massa: how many people go to referendum here, and still is valid. Anyway the support for independence is around 42%.
@Massa:
Yes, damn these upstarts with their quaint outdated notions of self-determination – how dare they….
@Jindrich Marz: ya, that “practice vote” was totally false. Opinion polls (yes I know) show that the remain side is more popular by a small buy clear margin
@Massa:
Hmmmm…
International law you say….
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/self_determination_international_law
@Liam Doyle: I suggest you take a look at how Cataluña became so wealthy. They didn’t just invent it themselves.
@Jindrich Marz: referendum here are totally legal as a democratic country. It’s your choice not to go. The rules are agreed by all. Again if all this needs to be explained in 2017 we have a problem in understanding democracy and we have a big problem with propaganda. My last comment. All the best.
@Dave O Keeffe: Still they should have a right to express themselves in an official vote. It would clear the situation and if voted to stay, it would help stability in Spain.
@Massa:
Your profile picture is quite ironic
@Massa: My sincere apologies, I should have been clearer and pointed to those calling for independence, I spent many years in Catalunya and fell in love with the people and landscape, many a night spent enjoying the sardanas in open squares.
@Liam Doyle: So you know nothing about Catalunya and its history. We’ll just add it to your ever-growing Things Liam Doyle Knows Nothing About Ignorance List.
@Jindrich Marz: except it affects the entire country so it would be only right for it to be a national vote.
@Jindrich Marz: by the way, the 2014 “referendum” allowed 16 and 17 year olds to vote as well as non-residents add to that that it was boycotted by the No campaign with a roughly 40% turnout and yeah, you’ve got a redundant statistic introduced by someone either being deceitful or not having a clue what they’re talking about.
@Liam Doyle: Atheos was probably referring to the fact that your comment in itself displayed an ignorance of the history, as I was too but you seemed more intent on just insulting him than actually discussing the issue.
700?!
Breaking the law of a democratic country is, by definition, non democratic. Those mayors being called just to declare (they havent been accused) represent 30% of the total population of Catalonia.
@Massa:
Then what’s the problem with holding a referendum if support for independence is so low?
@Avina Laaf: the sovereignity belongs to the people of the whole country. Just as pretty much any other country un the world. If this needs to be explained in 2017…
@Avina Laaf: the support is somewhere close to 50%.
@Massa:
I suggest you take a look at a map of the world from any time in history and compare it with a modern one.
@Avina Laaf: not relevant for this topic. But thanks for telling me…
@Massa:
No, of course the right to self-determination has no relevance whatsoever to how international boundaries develop over time….
*cough*
Well done to the Catalans, unlike our weasel politicians who roll over when Merkel and her cronies tell them to
This comes down to Spain’s Constitution. Does it permit an “Independence” vote by any single region? And apparently it doesn’t by the ruling of the Constitutional Court. When the Spanish Constitution was drafted it was put to “All” the Spanish people to agree on by referendum. As such the Catalans agreed to the conditions set out in the Constitution. It would be like County Cork declaring that the Irish Constitution is no longer applicable to them and they could do as they saw fit.
@Mick Jordan:
And why shouldn’t they if that’s what they want? Isn’t it a bit, well, fascist to say that the rest of the country can deny Corconians the right to self-determination?
I have to admit a lot of ignorance on this topic. What happens if the referendum goes ahead? Could there be sanctions? Could the military get involved? Dark days.
Spanexit
Spain’s democracy is too recent and fragile to mess with it. Those that dare seem irresponsible. Creating differences, feeling more Catalan, more authentic, braver and without fear (no tinc por!) against an enemy that is not common, but chosen by a few to detract from the real issues facing a Catalonia that is looking defaced and aged as if tired of coping with all the assaults made in its name, as if it was a martyr awaiting death whilst most of its citizens remain unemployed or with lower salaries and worse public services.
They can blame Spain and say they are not afraid and that independence is their best bet, but they don’t know themselves.
It’s a smoke screen that could hide what we should all fear. The shaking of our democracy and peace & the return to the whispers and taking sides
How do you figure that Catalonia is a North Eastern region? Do you have access to Google maps in the journal offices?
@billy Dorney:
have your say