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Is a religious education better for students? We took a look

‘Catholic schools are more strict, the academic side of things follows in that pattern then.’

Pasted image at 2016_07_28 01_11 PM

As 96% of Irish primary schools are religious-run, enrolment policies are coming under more and more scrutiny each September. In this three-day special series, TheJournal.ie explores the role religion plays in our classrooms and what’s being done in the sector.

ONE OF THE key arguments for religious-run schools is that they are frequently among the best-performing in terms of the educational outcomes they produce.

In Ireland it is virtually impossible to comprehensively check that claim. That is because there is a massive disproportion of schools under religious control compared to secular ones.

So, while religious schools are always in the top 10 or 20 of those sending students to Trinity College or UCD, the variables are too wide to say that one is “better”.

Marie

shutterstock_268247162 Shutterstock / SpeedKingz Shutterstock / SpeedKingz / SpeedKingz

“Is a religious education better for students? It’s not about that,” says Marie*.

She describes herself as a “modern Irish Catholic” – she goes to mass at Christmas and Easter, but still holds profoundly Catholic views, particularly around education.

She teaches fourth classes at a school in Meath.

The way I would see it is the Catholic ethos isn’t just about indoctrination, it’s about us recognising that we can teach children more than maths.

But shouldn’t the moral guidance come from home?

“It absolutely should. But we’re in contact with the kids all day. We see their social relationships and we can advise them using the Catholic moral structure.”

Discipline

Alex*, who teaches Senior Infants in a Catholic school in Kildare, says the Catholic ethos can be as much about discipline as guidance.

“Catholic schools are more strict, the academic side of things follows in that pattern then. But you can’t say one is better than the other – academically – because every child is different.

“The school routine, in my opinion, is better in a Catholic school.

But that’s my opinion only and I’m coming as a Catholic teacher in a Catholic school who is a Catholic.

Steven* who is an atheist teacher in a north Dublin school actually agrees with that.

“I have worked in a non-denominational school and a faith school and, if I was totally honest, the faith school is easier in a way.”

That is, he says, because children are given less latitude and freedom, which makes teachers’ jobs easier.

“That over-riding sense of discipline can work for a teacher.”

Sacraments

shutterstock_261897428 Shutterstock / Shutterstockphoto3 Shutterstock / Shutterstockphoto3 / Shutterstockphoto3

Alex says that the actual teaching of religion is still largely focused on the sacraments. To that end, teaching practice is catered around preparing teachers to front-load the work to first and fifth classes.

“The communion is their first introduction to religion as opposed to quiet time or personal time. In sixth class you open up to confirmation and the Gift of the Holy Spirit is taught. But they are the two exceptional years.

“It goes back to the basis of the teaching then [that] they got in Senior Infants and first class after their communion.

“From third to fifth class, they look at their relationships – friends and how to respect to other people in a deeper way.”

Home truths

shutterstock_444485116 Shutterstock / Sasun990 Shutterstock / Sasun990 / Sasun990

Gillian Flanagan is a mother of three based in Stillorgan, Dublin. As a practising Catholic she is happy with the way religion is currently being taught in Irish primary schools.

She told TheJournal.ie, “We pray in our house, we go to mass, I’m happy my kids are in an environment that accepts that.”

“Christian moral values are the basis of most of our laws in this country – there shouldn’t be a conflict between good behaviour and an emphasis on good Christian values.”

Flanagan said the basis of her children’s faith “comes from me – not the school” but added that she is happy that the sacraments are prepared for during school time as she feels that after school activities are difficult for children at communion age as they are too tired to absorb what’s going on.

“My eldest is going in to do his Holy Communion next year … the fact that the communion preparation is done through school is something we are happy about.”

When asked about calls for religion to be taken out of schools, Flanagan said:

“If you look at census figures from 2011, 84% put down they are Catholic – so it’s not that unreasonable that the majority of Irish schools have a Catholic ethos, especially when religious orders are running those schools.

“The state needs to step up and build other schools and not necessarily take religion out of schools”

Daniel* disagrees. He has a child in a Catholic school, but doesn’t want them to be taught a Catholic moral code.

“He’s six and a Catholic school is the only one in the town, but why should he be taught something I don’t believe?

“It’s not that I don’t respect the ethos or what the Church is doing, it’s just…

“It’s something I’m not comfortable with, to be honest. I think the kids should learn about religions, but not just one.”

Flanagan, however, said that she is happy the ethos of her children’s school is one where Christian values are respected.

“I’m very happy that my kids are able to talk about going to mass and they don’t have 20 children laughing at them that they went to mass.”

*Names changed at request of interviewees.

By Cliodhna Russell, Sinead O’Carroll and Paul Hosford

Read: ‘Sham baptisms’: Priests struggle with reasons behind the ceremony while parents feel hypocrital>

Read: Unbaptised and bottom of the list – frustrated and worried parents speak out>

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    Mute Smidgen Dublin
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    Jan 13th 2020, 1:54 PM

    Amazing achievement. Congratulations Saoirse!

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    Mute Peter Cavey
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    Jan 13th 2020, 3:08 PM

    @Smidgen Dublin: it’s a great achievement for her alright but a horrible category this year.. Scarlett Johansson gave an acting tour de force in marriage story, can’t see anyone other than her winning. But, to be nominated is still amazing.

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    Mute Pauline Gallagher
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    Jan 13th 2020, 4:15 PM

    @Peter Cavey: Scarlett deserves to win, but Any Hollywood biopic nominee always gets it so it’ll be Renee

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    Mute Daragh Cassidy
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    Jan 13th 2020, 1:55 PM

    Delighted for her.

    A great achievement to have so many nominations at such a young age. She comes across as really down to earth and likeable and represents Ireland well.

    Just waiting for all the usual begrudgers to start commenting on her accent…

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    Mute Fr Romeo sensini.
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    Jan 13th 2020, 1:59 PM

    @Daragh Cassidy: in fairness its you that’s starting it.

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    Mute rumug
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    Jan 13th 2020, 2:07 PM

    @Daragh Cassidy: yeah what is the craic with the accent? Seeing as you mentioned it.

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    Mute Fergus O'Connor
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    Jan 13th 2020, 2:14 PM

    @Daragh Cassidy: Last sentence is your true agenda. Rest of it is filler to get you to said agenda.

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    Mute Red wine and chocolate cake
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    Jan 13th 2020, 3:36 PM

    Just how little were these women?

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    Mute Joe Conway
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    Jan 14th 2020, 3:03 PM

    I assumed they were all under 5 feet – but I was wrong apparently!!!

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    Mute Camacsaint
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    Jan 13th 2020, 2:38 PM

    Great actress but OMG ladybird was sooooo overhyped ….. sheeyte to be honest .

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    Mute alan
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    Jan 13th 2020, 2:54 PM

    @Camacsaint: little women is worse. Daytime tv.

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    Mute ed w
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    Jan 13th 2020, 3:32 PM

    @alan: chick flick

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    Mute Marbles
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    Jan 13th 2020, 2:29 PM

    Was gobmsacked to learn Bela from Fair City is her Father. Some family of actors. Well done Saoirse.

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    Mute Liam P Dunne
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    Jan 13th 2020, 2:32 PM

    @Marbles: No hes not it’s another fella from fair city

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    Mute iohanx
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    Jan 13th 2020, 2:44 PM

    @Marbles: you’ll need to fact check that one Marbles …

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    Mute jason
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    Jan 13th 2020, 2:45 PM

    @Marbles: hes not

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    Mute Joe Nolan
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    Jan 13th 2020, 2:48 PM

    @Marbles:
    I’m sure her real father would be even more shocked!

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    Mute Bopper Bops Holland
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    Jan 13th 2020, 3:45 PM

    @Marbles: her father plays Anto Collins in Fair City

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    Mute Paul Somers
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    Jan 13th 2020, 5:01 PM

    @Marbles: Paul Ronan’s acting career started in TV and films since the mid-’90s, notably as Edso Dowling in the Ballykissangel TV series; other TV appearances include Rebel Heart and The Tudors. But yes he did a role as Anto in Fair City a few years back. His most notable achievement along with his wife Monica, was mentoring, nurturing and developing a most fantastic young lady Saoirse.

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    Mute Emer Caffrey
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    Jan 13th 2020, 6:47 PM

    @Marbles: stay out of the research industry

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    Mute Charles McCarthy
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    Jan 14th 2020, 3:31 AM

    @Marbles: Best laugh so far this year. I hear Fr Michael Clearly was Donald Trumps third cousin. You might fact check that there Marbles. Gas ticket.

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    Mute Charles McCarthy
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    Jan 14th 2020, 3:40 AM

    @Charles McCarthy: As they say, don’t ever meet your heroes, you’ll be dissapointed.

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    Mute Robert Dungan
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    Jan 13th 2020, 4:04 PM

    The Oscars? Yawn.

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    Mute Pat O'Leary
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    Jan 13th 2020, 3:53 PM

    Hope she wins it.

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    Mute Robert Dungan
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    Jan 13th 2020, 4:16 PM

    @Pat O’Leary: couldn’t give a s**t.Her wiining won’t butter my parsnips.

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    Mute WreckDefier
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    Jan 13th 2020, 7:33 PM

    Joker deserves to clean up including best actor Oscar for JP

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    Mute Bass demon
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    Jan 13th 2020, 2:45 PM

    Some achievement well done on a side note can’t see Joaquin Phoenix getting best actor after his rambling expletive laden speech at the Golden Globes .

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    Mute Clifford Brennan
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    Jan 13th 2020, 2:52 PM

    @Bass demon: That’d be a shame. Incredible film. The cinematography was superb too.

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    Mute Dave Hammond
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    Jan 13th 2020, 2:55 PM

    @Bass demon: they don’t vote on best or worst acceptance speeches -which is just as well or half the oscars won would be taken back by now – he will win it because the acting in the Joker was great – he just owned the screen and would be a worthy winner in my opinion

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    Mute Bass demon
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    Jan 13th 2020, 3:08 PM

    @Dave Hammond: Not saying he isn’t worthy of it but with these PC laden shows they like the winner to keep it simple and thank God and their mother. However he might pull a Marlon Brando and send Greta Thunberg to accept the award.

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    Mute Wheresmyjumper
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    Jan 13th 2020, 3:13 PM

    @Dave Hammond: they reckon Mikey Rourke ruined his chances of an Oscar after his acceptance speech at either the Baftas or Golden Globes, can’t remember which

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    Mute Charles McCarthy
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    Jan 14th 2020, 3:40 AM

    @Bass demon: Give him a script and he can make you believe anything. When he’s not acting he can’t string a sentence together.

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    Mute Donnacha Bhoicaire
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    Jan 13th 2020, 4:05 PM

    Always the bridesmaid unfortunately. Not her fault….great actor

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    Mute Michael Lynch
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    Jan 13th 2020, 4:48 PM

    @Donnacha Bhoicaire: Don’t worry. She’ll get a Lifetime Achievement Oscar by the time she’s 35.

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    Mute Emily Barton
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    Jan 13th 2020, 5:01 PM

    Fantastic to see 4 nods for Parasite – Bong Joon Ho is one of the greatest directors in the world in the last 15 years!

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    Mute Gigi Power
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    Jan 13th 2020, 9:15 PM

    Great….not… saw her in an interview a few years ago… patronizing and annoying…

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    Mute Cowboy Paddy
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    Jan 13th 2020, 5:56 PM

    No nomination for De Niro?

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    Mute Michael Lynch
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    Jan 13th 2020, 9:14 PM

    @Cowboy Paddy: For what? Pesci can act DeNiro into a banbox.

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    Mute Dougal67
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    Jan 13th 2020, 11:46 PM

    @Cowboy Paddy: Thought Pacino stoke the show tbh, de Niro was de Niro and Pesci just stumbled thru it, have to say Joker 9 nominations!!! Thought it was a pile of shite…most left cinema with me said it was crap.

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