Agreed John B. I forgot to say this is the most important reason for legalising and part of what I meant by saying it would make it safer for everyone

You say it as if the escort is often an independent worker but what Sarah Benson notes and it is fact, most sex workers work under an authoritative figure i.e. Pimp mostly as a means of protection from possible violent clients or other competing escorts and legalizing it doesn’t erase those facts or stop the trade from going underground which is what the facts she describes notes and what should also be noted is that sex trafficking would in a way become legal as the victim would be pressured to claim he/she isn’t doing it against their will and because it would be legal the investigation would in most cases end there.

The state should tax and regulate the industry to within an inch if it’s life, like all other smes and sole traders in this country.

Whatever turncoat halligan says has no bearing on the truth after his betrayal of Waterford voters on the water scam.He should be barred from crossing the rice bridge!

ah water under the bridge Dave, water under the bridge

it would be even better if there was a designated red light district with windows much the same as Amsterdam or cologne and there should be some fkk clubs aswell….

Lies Kevin, most sex workers are completely independent and are not coerced at all. But feel free to keep spinning all the lies that Turn Off the Red Light, Ruhama, the Immigrant Council of Ireland etc depend on. Deliberately conflating sex trafficking with consensual sex and pretending to care about sex workers’ welfare while all the while what they really want is prostitution, in all forms, completely abolished.

Good one jester,it’s too late for halligan to try building bridges with voters at this stage in his career,fool them once and all that.

Best sign up quick they’ve just registered their intention to bury their collective snouts in the trough #gravytrain

Next he’ll say “it’s part of my strategy to broaden the tax base”

The purpose is to punish the buyer, but not the seller.

Legal bdoes not equal Lawful.

So Éamonn, do you support the prosecution of individuals who purchase heroine but not the ones who sell it?

@Éamonn Flynn,
It doesn’t work like that for drug dealing.

Ross, you mean could NOT care less, we’re not Americans here.

Because it would protect the escort who may be a victim of sex trafficking from possible prosecution if they were to ever report an abusive client or seek help while also limiting the risk of possible abuse by making it illegal to purchase it.

Me neither. Senator Bacik as the number one cheerleader is a clear hypocrite. Nothing new there though, feminism and hypocrisy often go hand in hand. She did a radio interview months ago with David Norris. Norris rightfully said it was utterly inhumane to deny those with mental illness, or those incapable of forming relationships a sex life. However, the interviewer at no point forced her to address that salient point. It was pathetic. She just read from her script and kept repeating “evidence based approach” and at no point addressed the points Norris made.

He would want o go away and spend a few bob on a hair cut

A compelling and mature argument as always, Daisy

Bacik doesn’t know her arse from her elbow. I doubt there is a bigger clown in Irish politics. She’s only relevant because her fellow luvvies in the media still think her opinion carries some sort of weight despite her being rejected by the electorate time and time again.

I’m all for the legalising of drugs and prostitution. If you want to pay a man or woman, or both for sexual services then have it taxed and regulated so there’s transparency and support for all parties involved. Same with drugs, It will cut the legs out from under some pimps and pushers and you’ll have less of a risk of disease or assault. Sex isn’t sinful or shameful. When it’s between consenting adults it’s pleasurable and fun. Legalise it and give people the right to choose to pay or be paid for it.

Wombmen’s bodies are vessels under law of the Sea.

^Idiot.

And most are trafficked to work in construction, labour, restaurants, au pairs, increasingly begging, fishermen – any form of labour where people can get away with this modern slavery.

Perhaps look at the EVIDENCE before making such statements. While legalisation seems like a good idea in theory, in all the cases where it has been done so far, for example Germany, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Australia, legalisation has done nothing to protect the rights and the welfare of the women working in the sex industry. Criminality does not decrease and sex trafficking prevails. Pimps and brothel owners are typically the workers in the industry who benefit most from legalisation. While it’s nice and all to be progressive and open minded, the fact is, legalisation has not worked so far, and it is highly unlikely that it would be any different in Ireland.

Catherine – So would you have an issue with criminalizing sale and purchase, or just purchase?

Really Catherine. would you rather be a prostitute in stoneybatter side street or a brothel in Sydney Berlin Madrid Brussels etc?

BS, Catherine, I worked in a brothel in Sydney over a decade ago and the girls’ welfare and rights were sacrosanct.

@Catherine O’Riordan
The thing is all this ‘evidence’ comes from anti prostitution NGOs and organizations (similar to Turn Off the Red Light in Ireland) who make the ‘evidence’ say what they want it to say and dismiss any real evidence.

Hi anne Marie,
all generalised reports of a global scale on either side of the debate depend on huge assumptions and speculative figures because of the obvious clandestine nature of the sex trade.

Hence, such conclusions are hugely theoretical and must be taken as such . This is also because the legal model chosen is just one of many factors which decide levels of prostitution – economic boom/bust , availability of jobs , migration levels , police resources to enforce laws , obstacleds for migrants entering the mainstream workforce.

It is notable that the havard report you link aslo coincides with a LSE report that also speculated that legalisation increased trafficking but also similarly admitted that conditions were worse for womenin the sex trade in criminalised environment.

Which is why the optimum scenario is to provide full legal rights to those who sell sex while implementing a zero -tolerance approach tpoo those who forcibly traffic women into the trade.

Which is the connsistent position of those who advoate sex workers rights like Halligan.

“QUICK, LOOK OVER THERE……..”

John Halligan is right on both counts! It’s nice to hear something progressive like this from a Cabinet Minister.. Unfortunately nothing will come of it

Whatever else you say he seems authentic in his beliefs, and is capable of thinking for himself and making his own mind up about things. It’s only when something like this comes up that you realise how rare this is in irish politics.

Patrick i think it predates currency

He may have well paid for it with barter, therefore no money may have been exchanged.

if I asked is the earth flat? that would be a nonsense question.

A question is never nonsense, a statement may be.
But if someone is looking for an answer, to call their questions “nonsense” is to quash their thirst for knowledge.

It depends john. If I asked you “have you stopped beating your wife?” would that question be a thirst for knowledge on my part?

If you were unemployed, and prostitution was legal, and you turned down a job shouting ‘next!’ In a brothel, could they stop your dole?

I applaud your witty and cutting comeback!

You omitted a very important word there Paddy…can. Prostitution can be all of those things and all help should be given to those who need to get out, people abusing prostitutes need to be punished but that goes without saying. However, there are many men and women working in the sex industry who are more than happy to do so, they are making a choice for themselves and engaging in consentual sex and should not be faced with the risk of a criminal record for doing so.

I agree Maggie, that the prostitutes themselves should not be prosecuted.

Paddy, you need to distinguish between:

1) sex workers who are coerced
and
2) consensual sex in exchange for money

These are two completely different issues but of course Turn Off the Red Light conflate the two every chance they get as it helps to paint all prostitution as inherently evil.

If you actually knew anything about prostitution you would realise that the former constitutes a tiny minority of prostitution whereas the latter constitutes the vast majority. And don’t give me that crap that Sarah Benson spreads that can never be consent where money is involved. There are hundreds of sex workers in Ireland perfectly happy to sell sexual services. Just because some people don’t morally approve does not give them the right to enact legislation which makes criminals of the buyers.

@ John Flavin Someone hiring a prostitute, does not go through a detailed inventory check, before they make their dire purchase. They have neither the moral, ethical, or intellectual bent, to concern themselves with the welfare of their purchase. The industry is shot through with both “voluntary” and coerced victims. I question how “voluntary” anyone is, because circumstantial poverty, or drug entrapment, are usually behind their volunteering. I have never met a man, and I’d include Mr Halligan in this, who would recommend prostitution to their mother, daughter or their sister, as an honourable life-giving job. So I question just how consensual, consensual sex is in these circumstances. I’m afraid that’s just a justification lie, the depraved tell themselves, just to sleep better. So the “happy” glow you say is the majority situation, is merely the veneer polished on the faces of the exploited by the pimps, so the purchaser may tell themselves pretty stories, and return again. This is just a case of objectifying another human, and telling oneself, you are doing them a favour.

prostitution is the only legal way for a lot of women to escape poverty. taking that away from them will drive them into real crime shoplifting etc

Undie. I am delighted you have a sense of humour. So Stalin had the support of The Orthodox Church, then why did he demolish their Cathedral in 1931 and convert the space into a swimming pool
http://www.yourmoscowguide.com/02.MoscowCathedralofChrist.htm
Stalin from 1942 stopped the persecution of the Orthodox Church to unite the country against attacks by the Nazis but after the war the persecution began again.it is believed that 14,000,000 were murdered by Stalin and his fellow atheists in the Soviet. So much for for your idea of “Good old Uncle Joe

auschwitz jesus that’s a bit strong paul

What does a ” retired” prostitute look like?.

Wouldn’t let that thing near an infant!

Do you actually know what Minister set up the HSE? It appears you don’t.