We need your help now
Support from readers like you keeps The Journal open.
You are visiting us because we have something you value. Independent, unbiased news that tells the truth. Advertising revenue goes some way to support our mission, but this year it has not been enough.
If you've seen value in our reporting, please contribute what you can, so we can continue to produce accurate and meaningful journalism. For everyone who needs it.
Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
By continuing, you are indicating that you accept our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.
EUROZONE FINANCE MINISTERS may be forced to turn to the IMF for help, after the EU’s own bailout fund fell short of the level needed to provide serious assistance for troubled economies.
At a meeting in Brussels yesterday, ministers raised the possibility that the IMF could step in to provide firepower not available to the European Financial Stability Fund. It’s hoped that the IMF’s resources could be boosted by bilateral loans from individual countries, AFP reports.
The move could mean other countries stepping in to provide funding that would be used to bail out EU nations. Dutch finance minister Jan Kees de Jager said: “I think both European and non-European countries should be ready to increase resources through the IMF so that we have enough resources in total.”
One official told Reuters that national banks could print more money to loan to the IMF, suggesting nations “can decide to increase the resources of the IMF to provide money for the bailout, and they can do that through national central banks, who would simply print the money.” However, the official said this was a last resort.
It had been hoped that the EFSF, which currently has funds of more than €200billion, could be boosted to around €1trillion by leveraging it several times. However, Bloomberg reports that the fund’s head Klaus Regling suggested it would not reach its target.
The meeting has set out further options for leveraging the EFSF in a planning document.
Last night’s meeting did not result in the ECB getting the go-ahead for unlimited bond purchases from countries in difficulty, as many analysts had hoped. Luxembourg’s premier Jean-Claude Juncker said the issue was “too sensitive”, the Guardian reports.
This morning, ESRI economist Joseph Durkan said that markets would only be reassured if the ECB pledged to do “whatever is needed” to rescue distressed economies. He warned that Ireland’s economic situation would depend heavily on the unfolding crisis in the eurozone.
Ministers also signed off on an immediate €8billion lifeline for Greece, as the country struggles with a cash crisis, the AP reports.
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
I support their pay claim but this is going to cause blue murder (geddit?) with the rest of the public sector.
There’s no way in hell the ASTI will now accept that “Nothing can be done outside of lansdowne rd”.
The government has pretty much torn up Lansdowne rd. Maybe it was coming anyway though. Unions will probably turn now and pull out on masse, and there’s no money for pay restoration on a large scale.
@Rónán O’Suilleabháin: They FG have only themselves to blame, they pushed that we where out of trouble to get them over the GE. Handing out bonuses and rises for people on welfare, this was set in stone once they started pumping out the money again and not giving anything back to the idiots putting money into the system.
@Rónán O’Suilleabháin:
Not sure Ronan.
I don’t think teachers have anything like the same leverage.
The GRA had a nuclear option – strike.
People see striking teachers – who get three months off in summer – as spoiled brats.
@Rónán O’Suilleabháin:
Wishful thinkiing Ronan. There was no deviation from Lansdowne road agreements here in terms of pay, which is what the unions want.
looking for funds to pay public servants…one word….Apple
@Fred Johnson: “There was no deviation from Lansdowne road agreements here in terms of pay, which is what the unions want.”
So, when is a pay rise not a pay rise?
I’m glad the Gardai have been offered more money, but lets not be silly here, this is a pay rise wrapped in various guises to make it appear as lansdowne road has not been breached.
Dont think they will accept this. Next time they won’t losen to the labour court. Gives the government a stay of execution is all.
A massive amount of this is down to howlin when he climbed up on a soap box and promised restoration of pre crises pay rates in an effort to drum up support prior to the general election.
Looks like Ashbourne Annie had other ideas
I 100% support the garda pay claim and we’ll done to them….but they must start cooperating properly with investigations into all areas of their work. The culture of covering up poor investigations and outright corruption still seems to exist in the force
@Francis Shortt:
Unfortunately Francis, the Apple funds are held in escrow and won’t be available to anyone for at least 4 years, as Apple are appealing the ruling.
However, if Apple changed their mind on an appeal, that would really upset the…erm…apple-cart.
I agree Gary. I don’t think that’s down to the rank and file lads though, the guard earning 23,000 a year has very little input into it.
@Fred Johnson: Hardly wishful, I have no time for the unions. I simply think that front line workers (specifically) are underpaid and undervalued.
This is obviously a fudge, but my point is that no-one will accept that this doesn’t break the agreement. The unions aren’t going to get their legal team to look at the Gardaí’s deal and say:
“By Jove, they’re right. Stand down, lads, nothing to see here”
@Brinster:
Teachers have never needed public support for strikes. Once people have to start taking vacation days to mind their kids the pressure comes.
It’s up to all members to co operate properly with investigations Jane. Unfortunately for the majority of Gardai the few bad apples have caused enormous damage to their reputation
Why wouldn’t they accept it??
yet again Govt capitulates in the face of threatened strike action.
and yet again the taxpayer picks up the bill.
The 85% of the workforce work in the area that created money for the economy, the public sector, while doing a valuable job, does not.
Public sector pay and pensions are well above private sector averages where pension payments of around 7,000 a year are needed to match the average public sector pension – for 40+ years.
Last year Labour proposed a special tax on the private sector to pay public sector pensions. They did so with a straight face. Ireland is like England in the 1970s, with unions running ragged over the government, and with the private sector used simply as a cash cow.
No wonder commentators say the country is ripe for a political party that will represent the working and middle class of the private sector, the groups that pretty much pay for everything.
@Rónán O’Suilleabháin:
Fair point – but that can also sway public opinion further against them.
So there is a counterpoint to the pressure.
Overall their leverage is significantly less.
@Rónán O’Suilleabháin: the high jacking of my country by this force is but a scandal ..the end result will be more austerity for we the people … shame on you bulling the poor the sick and us
You would swear the public sector are doing nothing in return for private sector funding as you imply. We’re working and paying taxes like everyone else. Just because it doesnt generate wealth doesn’t mean its not contributing to society. Moran.
@Rónán O’Suilleabháin: The money is there why did the government drag it out until the last minute Now is the time for the garda to be seperated from the whims of government
@James Mc Loughlin: The money is not there. We are still borrowing to run the country. This is why I also disagree with giving people tax cuts and increasing spending – it gives the illusion that there’s a pot of money to hand out when we’ll still borrow billions to run the country next year.
As soon as you give *someone* money, then everyone clamours to be part of the spoils. Therein lies the real failure of the government, that they ever touched anything that isn’t universal.
Gardaí are to be balloted on whether or not to accept this proposal. If they vote to accept, it’ll mean they’ll automatically sign up to the Lansdowne Rd Agreement. If they vote not to accept it… It’s back to the drawing board and industrial action is back on the table.
Looking at the figures proposed using 800 as the average salary before tax.
Rent increase of 500 equates to a 12.5% increase on rent allowance and about 1.2% increase in salary.
If it in then incorporated into salary it will be perceived to be a 10.8% increase in our salary. Realistically speaking it won’t be because we loose the allowance. However it will forever be referred to as an increase for any future negotiations on wage increases!! Don’t let go of the allowance!!
There are 219 shifts per year an extra 15 minster = 54.74 hours or 5 1/2 days extra. This is being sold as a 2.5% increase in salary. Let’s be real being paid a flat rate to come in 15 minutes more is not a salary increase. It’s a. Increase in work load.
15 for every leave day. 34 × 15= 510 increase which equates to a pay increase of approx 1.2%.
It’s a gimmick!!! We went looking for 16% the bus and luas for approx 12% increase in salary and that’s an important figure.
Proposed……..
Rent incorporated. 10.8%
Annual leave pay. 1.2%
Parade pay. 2.5%
Appears as increase 14.5%
Reality………
Rent as allowance. 1.5%
Annual leave. 1.2%
Increase total of. 2.7%
I haven’t included parade time as this is an increase in work load it’s NOT an increase in pay!!!!
Figures are being used cleverly as it would appear we get a better deal than luas and buses!!!!
@Rosie Murray: Cant agree with the rent allowance. Core pay is where the money belongs and the word allowance has been used to attack us since 2008. The general public cant differentiate between an allowance like rent and an allowance like air support (which about what? 10 Gardai get?)
Sick to the teeth of people trying to make out that every Garda gets a bike allowance even though theres not a single member claiming it or entitled to.
No allowances, accurate and fair core pay.
That said, its sweet FA of an increase. When all is said and done we have been offered 500 extra a year and 1500 for working more. I have no desire to become part of the only working sector that works a 42 hour week thanks very much
@Gary Smith: haha, good luck with that, LoL !
Wouldn’t begrudge them , they put themselves on the line every day they go to work,
But I would question the 15 euro extra they get for taking a holiday. What’s that about? Do they get a lunch allowance of 15 euro that they don’t get when on holiday?
Also it’s worth between 490 and 510 which equates to 32.6-34 days off a year.
They never get a pay raise. To offset that and to stop everyone else looking for one the government give them allowances. Allowances can be taken away easier far easier than core pay. This is just another one.
Brian, it’s to cover annual leave being cancelled for garda having to appear in court and therefore losing or having to rearrange holidays abroad etc
@brian magee: H Brian, Ya, 32 days is about correct. But they don’t get the public holidays that other workers get, so it balances out…
@brian magee: does everyone in the force get a rent allowance , i mean even if you are not renting ? how does that work does a guy in small village in cork get the same as a dublin based Garda : Red thumbers please comment on the content of the article and explain the red thumbs : http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/dan-obrien/dan-obrien-facts-about-how-much-garda-are-really-paid-must-be-central-in-talks-35184317.html .
And that add with the battered gard , yes that assault is an utter disgrace , there should be double the prison sentence for assaulting any frontline staff , but it also misleading as there is a very separate compensation fund where for such incidents are compensated . In fairness to the GRA and ASGI the muddied the water brilliantly
According to Dan O’Brien I as a humble bus driver earn on average of €900 pw net! Imagine my shock. I would be somewhat skeptical of Mr O’Briens figures as a result. However I for one am glad the strike is off & the annual purge has been cancelled.
@Matt Donovan: Matt , Is not DOB ist the CSO , now i know the unions only like self-serving facts but the CSO publishes fact . or would you question their integrity also?
Yes I would. They reported a 26% increase in GDP back in July and made the country a laughing stock “leprechaun economics”
@An bhearna: which was factually correct albeit referring to a complete outlier . but hang on to your exceptions to try and disprove facts that don’t suit , its amazing that an average is now seen as some wild non-representative statistic because it does not suit a union narrative . So here we go , full union fall out , I just hope that security of tenure will now become a taxable BIK.
Dan O’Brien has in the past stated that I & people like me earn average €900 pw net. That is so inaccurate I don’t know what to say. As a result I’d be somewhat skeptical of an economist who gets his sums wrong.
@brian magee: Gardai get leave allowance of 34 days a year because they do not get the 12 national holidays a year.
Second, you may or may not have heard but 2 days ago the commissioner cancelled all days off and annual leave and ordered all Gardai to work. Do you think that may have had an impact on someones holiday plans perhaps?
@brian magee: Brian, the reason for 34 days holidays is because Gardai work on bank holidays and public holidays including Christmas day etc. If these days are taken out of the equation it equates to the average amount of holidays which is 24 days per year.
A very dangerous precedent has been set, playing politics with state security is not good for any of us.
What were they suppose to do?
@jane: the option to quit and take a job in he private sector is always available.
@Patrick Swan: Indeed but then prior to 2008 the option of joing the public sector existed for you but you still expected Gardai “to share the pain” did you not?
@Karl Carroll: I’m not sure what your argument is Karl. Are you saying Gardai somehow took on a higher burden of the states’ financial deficit, than those that lost, jobs, homes or had to emigrate? Or that the fallout of the financial crash should have fallen only on the shoulders of private sector workers for some reason and public sector workers, not only secure in their employment and retirement should have been entirely exempt from “the pain”?
Hey Paul
Work weekends & bank holidays. Assaulted & verbally abused on regular basis doing your work. Potential of being killed in line of duty. Watching criminals walk out of court with a slap on the wrist and still going after them.
What would you pay a person that puts themselves in harms way ?
The same as prison officers an nurses an all front line staff . They are getting this every day. Was there not being nurses assaulted an some have been very seriously injured. So all these people are
John I have huge respect for nurses and they can be a target of violence and abuse but to put them in the same category as Gardai when it comes to violence is nonsense. The guards are the ones we call when we are all running in the opposite direction.
@John Scott: Nurses and prison officers deserve better money as well but neither actively chase dangerous criminals or take a beating on your behalf
34 days holidays a year. Job for life. Early retirement. Gold plated pension. Allowances for everything. Paid overtime.
Stabbed. Spat at. Rammed with cars. Punched. Puked on. Lifting people who $h!t all over themselves. Night work. Protection streets behind any other force. Directed in courts possibly after finishing a night shift. Hours of paperwork. Criminal prosecution deadlines. Massive responsibilities that no other job carries. Life and death decisions. Oh and how about having a half second to make that decision that Facebook police experts have months to debate Oh and just think about this… criminal trial. Barristers paid hundreds of thousands… but they didn’t do the work. They are just arguing over the work done by the police which I don’t think the pulis have insight into how intense it is
@Eye_c_u: an answer on perjury .. the massive pay increases .. martial law ….again we the people pay 20 000 other man and women wanted to join thus your rant is of self and greed
Makes me wonder why you’ve never applied yourself!
And also having to deal with the above.
You should have gotten a job with the gardai then Paul Lanigan if you’re so jealous.
@Archive: I knew that those taken in were of the cabal can you not see that
Working Christmas working bank holidays. Dealing with muder. Shotgun suicides. Well all suicides. Identifying the remains of children or adult killed in traffic accidents. List goes on.
@ Paul Lanigan Sounds like a job application, good luck with the medical.
Most people who do overtime get paid. Policing is both reactive and proactive. Overtime can’t be reduced with recruitment levels since 2008 being non existent until 2016. 34 days leave minus 9 bank holidays is 25 which is less than many workers. Add in the 39 Saturday’s, 26 Sunday’s and countless hours between midnight and 7am when most people are in bed.
@Paul Lanigan: NO national holidays off including Christmas. On average dying ten years earlier than the national average. paying 14% into a pension and a further 7% into PRSI for a pension they cant claim. Allowances for not being allowed live where they work and for maintaining their uniforms (thats actually the only allowances the majority get) and
PAID OVERTIME. Are you shitting me? You want them to work for free???????????
@Paul Lanigan: Then join Paul. Or is your criminal record counting against you?
It’s a result but we will have to wait an see how the gardai themselves respond to this deal. Either way any future goverment will think twice before ignoring front line staff and start pay restoration with themselves. Teachers, gardai and nurses deserve descent working conditions and pay. Every penny they earn goes back into our economy either in tax or paying for goods unlike the tax exiles and vulture fund who have made profits in the hundreds of millions and pay no tax thanks to policy’s written for them by our goverment. Then use our justice system to evict family’s while the taxpayer foots every bill and then to add insult to injury has to provide accommodation for homeless family’s.
its time the elite in this country started to live in the real world, it’s time the cost of living in Ireland was addressed. Like the rest of us gardai are paying to the colossal mistakes by politicians in running this country. At some stage the private sector worker will realise that the also should not have to live on peanuts while company profits keep increasing.
@leartius: Well said “on the ball, private sector workers have to wake up, everybody is entitled to a fair wage also?
Well said. So many on here focus on teachers holidays or dole heads. They ignore the really big issue which is the parasites at the top of the tree.
Government are weakened. Dangerous precident. Teachers next. Once they cave for the teachers other groups, previously happy will jump up and down. We’re still borrowing money to pay for the public service
@Paul Lanigan: “We’re still borrowing money to pay for the public service”
We’re not actually. We’re borrowing money to cover the hole left in our finances due to bailing out banks and developers, as well as allowing our state to operate as a tax haven. Properly enforcing our extremely low 12.5% corporate tax rate would bring in billions every year.
@For Connolly: we are actually , you are wrong , typical banker blah blahl smoke screen
@Paul Lanigan: eh isnt the bail out and in fact the entire crash due to private banks?
@Tensing Norgay: Nope, he is right. The bail out which was turning private debt from the private sector into public debt caused our woes.
the public finances are also being swallowed up by the unemployed ie sitting at home scratching themselves brigade.
Your choice, rich banker and unemployed criminal or a nurse and a Garda. wheres the money go?
@Karl Carroll: Not entirely. A large amount of it came from imprudence on the government’s part, over-reliance on the property market and too close a relationship with big developers. That imprudence was then amplified by the things the government choose to spend its annual windfalls on – the SSIA scheme for instance. Banks in America, the UK and Ireland were only part of the picture, A rotten part to be sure, but if government was doing it’s job properly the crash would have been far less significant and long lasting. France and Germany were exposed to the same risks and international adversities, however due to better leadership and more sober public policy, they had nothing like the problems we had.
You need a well paid police force. It should be a job that the most capable in society aspire to. If you’ve ever lived in a place where they are poorly paid, you’ll know how easy it is to circumvent the law by slipping them a few quid. I know we have some issues here and yes, I know people who’ve escaped fines for driving violations, but it was because of who they knew rather than what they paid.
As I said earlier this week they would get their deal and fair play, Iam very sure many of them could do with the extra cash. However as I also said “who is going to pay for this , just look at the public transport cost going up, Being in the private sector I do not want further living cost imposed on me to pay for this.
Those living costs also apply to public servants, you know. Your cost of living isn’t determined by the salary of the public sector. And if you feel it is, perhaps you should direct your ire towards TDs and ministers on inflated salaries, bogus expenses and untouchable pensions rather than the hardworking, dedicated professionals educating your children, protecting your family and treating you in hospital when you are sick.
. This point Ciara “Your cost of living isn’t determined by the salary of the public sector,” Surely when public service costs go up where does the money come from? Basicly your taxes and my taxes are increased?
@conriel: How about properly enforcing our already low corporation tax rate and closing tax loopholes? People need to get away from thinking that the only source of funding for our state is the citizen.
@conriel:
Corporations not paying tax should pay for this.
And a unilateral decision to reduce payments on the private debts of the banks will also pay for this.
@For Connolly: Fair point I agree
@Stiofain Murray: Great to get the response, Again I agree , this is pointing directly at the decisions of our Government, but you do know they will enflick cost far quicker on on you and me that Banks Corporations etc!
@conriel: haha hahahahahahah brilliant
Cost of living is determined by public transport and public services. Brilliant!
Its not dictated at all by the private sector banks, retailers, grocers, electricity companies, gas company, bin companies, restaurants, pubs……………………
I assume the ‘rent allowance’ is tax free, can other tax payers now avail of this?
No it isn’t. Again brought in in a time when guards were poorly paid and couldn’t afford to leave outside the “barracks”. Instead of getting a pay raise which would have triggered everyone else the government of the day gave them this. Standard in most police forces
@youknowimright: How long ago was it when the guards lived in Barracks?
If I was a teacher or CS I’d have that in my sights.
Rent allowance is not tax free
It’s not unusual for companies in the private sector to offer rent allowance as part of employment packages. It’s hardly an exclusive perk of the public sector.
@Ciara: It is unusual Ciara, it is done, but rarely and it is taxable.
@Phil: You’re wrong Phil, it is tax free.
Rent allowance is taxable but not pensionable. Which means the Govt take their share and dont have to calculate the “allowance” into pension payments either
@vNblxOSQ: no its taxed, everything Gardai get is taxed
But like all those lovely business cars we see private workers driving
An absolute joke.
I’m m afraid that this strike threat will come back and bite the guards arse. As there are now internal investigations going on around the country.
@Ossi Fritsche: corruption within is rife with self investigating self ….more corrupt acts …..
Any chance they can come out now and do foot patrols to keep citizens safe or will we need another allowance to cover that also?
@winston smith:
That’s not the fault of the Gardaí.
It is official government policy to have so few police.
@winston smith: Depends, are you going to pull another 8000 Gardai out of your arse anytime soon?
Look at global police to population numbers. Gardai are dangerously low on manpower.
What gets me is the allowances.
The Lanzarote allowance is given when a Garda goes on annual leave.
His/her ability to earn overtime when on holidays is nil therefore they are given an allowance to compensate for not being able to work overtime. In what other profession does this apply?
I read on RTE News that the rent allowance will be given to ALL members next year.
Does that apply to members who own their houses or is it just for members who have to rent somewhere because of a transfer?
While I fully support pay increases for front line staff, why not just include all these allowances into the final salary.
Because if they do they break the terms of the last public service pay deal and then teachers who are already striking will have a stronger hand and every other public servant will want an increase too.
@Paul Dolan: What in sweet Jesus name are you talking about? theres no allowance for being on holiday or for missing out ob over time,
is this genuinely a reflection of your intelligence?
Q is rent allowance for all gardai or just gardai renting.
The rent allowance is based on the fact that a Garda cannot be posted in the town he grew up in and the conditions of service specify that the shall live in official accommodation or receive a rent allowance if official accommodation is not available. There are few houses attached to Garda stations these days unlike many years ago.
The government needs to resign for allowing it to get to this stage.
There is PLENTY of money to pay the troika for bailing out the billions lost by private bankers.
Stop paying that (and threaten a referendum on leaving the EU, if they get snooty about it)
@Stiofain Murray: Yep, threaten to leave the Eu and default on a global loan, thats the way to show them whos boss.
Oh wait, we arent the boss? You mean this tiny country on the side of Europe looking into a giant ocean that spent the first 30 years of EU membership receiving billions in aid isn’t the most important global superpower? I am gobsmacked!
More breakfast rolls for the boys
Who else gets their rent paid ? Bullshit!!!
Rubbish offerf I hope they see sense and reject it
The order will come to day to treat the militant elements within the gardai like Whisle blowers
The goverment now know their up against weak organisations so it buisness as usualll
Up to other unions now to stand up for their members.will they
As a private sector on 28,000 a year.I will not get a payrise or rent allowance. Why can’t they pay for rent themselves like everyone else. why is public sector workers get all these perks. One law for public sector and another for the rest
@Rtr Rtrttr: well idiot, for starters you can live where you work however if your boss transfers you to another county then they will either pay for or refund any additional costs incurred.
Your 28,000 is 20% higher than a new garda who has just completed a degree
You probable do a low level or non demanding job.
You could have in the past and recently, applied to join the gardai. Why didn’t you?
have your say