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SWATHES OF LAND that could be developed to ease the housing crisis are lying idle and landowners should be offered incentives to sell up, according to the Small Firms Association (SFA).
In its pre-budget submission, the group has suggested the introduction of a 10% capital gains tax (CGT) rate on the profits from any sites sold where there is already planning permission in place.
SFA chairman AJ Noonan told Fora that this measure should be introduced on a temporary, three-year basis in order to encourage landowners to offload unused sites.
“There is an awful lot of land in Ireland, it’s not going away and because of an exorbitant rate of CGT, people won’t do anything with it.
We have to figure out a way to get them to sell so it can be used to help address the housing problem. People are holding onto land, have no intention of developing on it and just hoping for the best.
He added that a reduced VAT rate of 9% needs to be applied to the construction of residential property for two years, which will help relieve the housing shortages. Meanwhile, a 0% VAT rate should be put on the construction of social housing.
Key to investment
The SFA submission added that cutting CGT was a crucial component of driving investment in the Irish economy, with the country’s present 33% rate putting the Republic at a competitive disadvantage when it came to businesses attracting funding.
It has called on the government to reduce the standard Irish CGT to 20% to encourage more investment in indigenous firms.
Noonan said:
It is vital that this applies to all businesses so that the impact can be felt immediately. Practice over the last 20 years has shown that when the CGT rate drops, the exchequer benefits due to a surge in activity, so this is a clear win-win.
CGT is the tax due when someone sells an asset – such as a stake in their business. For comparison, the rates for the tax in the UK range from 10% to 20% for non-property income.
Many in the business sector have argued Ireland’s CGT rate should be slashed for company-related transactions to reward those taking risks on new enterprises.
The SFA claims it recommended measures to overhaul the tax would cost taxpayers roughly €52 million in 2017.
Other pitches from the group include:
Written by Killian Woods and posted on Fora.ie
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A woman without conscience.
God help our country if she ever holds the balance of power.
@Mark DeFriest: You want her to curl up into a ball and have her head bowed in shame,not happening dude.She is doing what the majority of people do after an abortion,they get on with their lives.As it’s a damp morning outside,you should go out and suck on a bunch of nettles.
Conscience? Termination of pregnancy is a medical procedure, nothing more. Do you search your conscience when you have a hip replacement? No
@Kevin Slater: Just like scraping out ear wax eh?
@Mark DeFriest: It’s judgmental bigotry like yours that has tainted this country, quite happy to ignore the real social problems of our society while dictating what women can and cannot do with their own bodies.
@Conor Kennelly: Don’t feed the troll.
@Kevin Slater:
You pushing for paternity leave for hip replacements?
@Conor Kennelly:
I’m a socialist.
@Kevin Slater: eh not comparing apples with apples, one is a medical device made out of whatever the other is a potential human being and to compare them is a bit gross really.
I think she is in for a shock if she thinks the majority of Irish people will vote for unrestrained abortion .
@Dilly Dong: I thought it a bit odd it was put up after midnight , still if they want it seen , they’ll have to leave it up tomorrow .
I just think some people don’t believe there is a silent majority , and not everyone can march in the streets everytime something comes up .
Provide the facts as given to the peoples assembly and slliw a real vote without scare mongering – and i believe it will pass with fluong colours. Please dont assume that YOU are better equiped or more intelligent to mske a choice for me (or any woman) than the woman themselves
Pro abortion means nothing. I think you will find the correct term is pro choice. Educate yourself. BTW only women should voice an opinion on this. It’s is always and only their choice
@Kevin Slater: I always get a kick out of it when I’m called a ‘pro abort’ by the fake “human rights activists,”As a father of five children,I must be the one of the worst ‘pro aborts’ that are out there :-)
@Kevin Slater: “Only women should voice an opinion on this” And so you are voicing your opinion because you are a.. man?Hmm.
@Ken Hayden: You might be surprised by what the majority of women think in ireland. Many may not agree with unrestricted abortion on demand but would agree with it for certain cases. Much depends on the wording of the referendum.
@Catherine Ryan: I agree with abortion in certain circumstances , and the easing of a lot of the restrictions on it .
It’s a complicated matter , for example , if a girl of 14 becomes pregnant , should she be able to have an abortion without the doctor informing her parents . I think the wording of the amendment will be important .
We all know the history but taking about laundrys and the church is not relevant now. That’s our history. We have access to contraception and have had for sometime. There is sex education in our schools and if she thinks there isn’t she is still living in 1975. We have moved on from all the things she is putting up as arguments for abortion. She’s not a good advert for the cause I don’t think. The days of 14 children are long long gone. Also she has no clue who protests at what and where they stand on abortion. She is just jumping to mad conclusions. There are no secret agendas to police women’s morality that is such a huge joke and a total red herring. It’s lucky this is just an ” opinion ” piece. There are far better more informed arguments out there . This one isn’t up to much. No young woman can relate to any of that nonsense.
@Catherine Sims: Unfortunately, contraception can fail, and sex education is not a panacea. A woman’s right to choose what is best for her is the issue.
@Catherine Sims: well said ! You summed that up nicely ..
The right to life – indeed. My life, mu daughters life – and we get to choose
@Dilly Dong: How exactly do you give an embryo the “right to life “while at the same time our government gives out information on where a woman can go to end that “right to life” ?
And why should she put her physical,mental & financial life at risk for something that she doesn’t want inside of her ? Would you put your life at risk for something that you have no care in the world for ?Would you heck.
@Maire Ganly: the recently published annual government report on abortion in England and Wales contains some disturbing details behind the headlines statistics. For example, we are told that the royal collage of obstetricians and gynaecologists recommended stopping the unborn heart (feticide )before what is euphemistically calls the evacuation ofthe uterus “if the unborn child is is 22 weeks old or more. If a child after been born alive,was injected with poison and died. We would not hesitate to to call it infanticide. Most people would be probably be appalled if this proposed to be legalised.
@Bobby wilson: What in ‘gods’ name are you waffling on about ?! They want to stop the foetus’ heart because they want to make sure that it isn’t born alive..You know,to save suffering on both sides.Wow!
You lot are so “caring” eh !
@Maire Ganly: Do you notice how Booby talks about the foetus’ that was wanted by the woman and how he wants her to be ‘forced’ to give birth to it? She (the woman) is told beforehand of the very procedure that he is talking about,and the reasons for it..These antis go on when the foetus’ is born alive and “left to die” and they go on about it when it’s not ..#loveboats
@Dilly Dong: Says the uterus and ovary free man.
@Francis Mc Carthy: if it is something she did not want inside her then why did she allow a situation where knowingly she could end up having something inside her. Such reference to a new life as “something” inside her debases humanity.
@Micheal S. O’ Ceilleachair: Women are fertile for the best part of 35 years,so accidents will and do happen.Grow up.
@Catherine Sims: its a bout a womans right to choose, a 14 yr old was being denied the right to travel 25 yrs ago after being raped by her friends father where is the humanity? dont forget it was only in 1985 that Joanne Hayes was interrogated about her morality. MIss X was at the extreme end of the spectrum but what im saying is that a civilised & humane country has to cover all eventualities.
The average person can’t do anything about preventing War, can’t do anything about stopping social welfare cuts, can’t do anything about reducing poverty. But the average person already did something about abortion – they forced a referendum and got it stopped. Whether it was under the control of religion in the past it’s simply not the case today. Being against abortion is down to human instinct and simple morals in the 21st century and those go beyond the legacy of religion. Unwanted pregnancies are an inconvenience for the mother but abortion is a hell of a lot worse for the person to be.
@Northern Craic: absolutely nothing to do with religion today. I agree!!!
@Northern Craic: “unwanted pregnancies” can be significantly more than just “an inconvenience” for the pregnant person, varying from short to long term physiological and/or psychological consequences. A foetus should not have more legal rights than the person carrying them.
@Felicity Hensen: You don’t seem to know the Constitution so. Article 40.3.3 recognises the EQUAL rights to life of mother and unborn child, WHERE PRACTICABLE. It does not grant supremacy to the child. It does not prevent life-saving interventions where the baby might die as a secondary consequence of treatment to save or protect a mothers life. It does, however, prevent the direct and intentional killing of the child where that is the primary objective.
There are countless lifesaving procedures performed in Irish hospitals every year where the child does not survive the treatment provided to the mother.
@Northern Craic: totally agree, it drives me mad when people assume if your against abortion your a religious nut!
@Brian Lenehan: while that may be the presumed theoretical position, that has not been the situation in many cases where the foetus was indeed given supremacy. The amendment to the article needs to be removed.
@Brian Lenehan: There is no “child” lad. A child is aged between 3 & 12..What you are talking about is giving an embryo MORE rights than a born person when it comes to using another persons organs ,yes? Can you tell me why should it have more rights than a born person when it comes to using another persons organs ? Good lad.
@Brian Lenehan:
There are countless lifesaving abortions performed in Irish Hospitals, (well, not really countless anymore, they do count these days) It’s known that the foetus will die, it’s not a secondary consequence. It’s as direct and intentional as anything else, no “Gee, we didn’t mean for that to happen” about it.
As for the Constitution, it also seem to recognise that there is no equality in reality with the 13th in place.
@Jun Stone: ” totally agree, it drives me mad when people assume if your against abortion your a religious nut!”
And it drives me mad when Pro Birthers outright lie about abortion, Posting pictures of Still Births as if they are the average termination. Graphic descriptions of procedures that are completely incorrect. Someone on here not too long ago said the same thing as you, A quick look at their FB page and it was jesus this and jesus that. I know all pro birthers are not religious but a lot are denying their religion as if it makes their stance more valid. It does not. If they are against abortion, Then they won’t be forced to have one, Other peoples business is nothing to do with them. If they want to be pro life how about they do something to tackle the thousands of children dying everyday around the world from starvation and poverty?? Actual living children and not clumps of cells that may eventually form them.
@Felicity Hensen: What legal rights precisely should an unborn have?
@Micheal S. O’ Ceilleachair: Let it to the medical profession like they do in Canada..It works..
@Micheal S. O’ Ceilleachair: a foetus has all the legal protection given to the person carrying them. What you seem to be talking about is should a foetus be granted personhood under law, which would mean they are a separate legal entity to the person carrying them. We’ve seen, since 1983, is this is untenable – though we’re playing the equal under the eyes of the law game. It is untenable because the pregnant person’s needs or wants, unless deemed immediately life threatening, always fall second to the foetus.
I seen her on the Vincent Browne show the other night. She reminded me of the machine from the terminator films. Cold, uncaring, unloving, hate filled person. Really not a nice person. Does the pro abortion side no favours at all.
@mickmc: “cold, uncaring hateful”, none of these words describe Bríd Smith, nothing could be further from the truth, she’s a driven and passionate and cares deeply about issues and her constituents, I might not agree with all of her policies but she’s honest and frank, abortion on demand for me is not the solution but her honesty and openness is to be admired and applauded….
@Kate Flaherty: Well I never met the woman, only ever heard her talk at length the other night and that’s the vibe I got off her. Maybe she not as good at PR as the rest of them.
@mickmc: I have met Bríd and spoken to her and an ongoing issue that I could not resolve over 6 months she resolved in a matter of a day or two, she is well loved by her constituents and is doing Trojan work on the ground, she is always available and if not will promptly return a call or have someone call you and follows through on it to the end, I think she’s passionate about anything she’s involved with and might come across as cold or uncaring but she’s far from it, she’s not your typical schooled politician….
@Dilly Dong: I hear what your saying and I would come from the same school of thought as yourself, Bríd comes across in a certain way but I think that’s more about the fact that she’s very straight and doesn’t believe in half measures, (she tends to shoot straight from the hip), plus the fact that she is not a schooled politician….
@Kate Flaherty: I have heard that argument several times about Michael Lowry from people who justify voting for him because he sorted out some issue for them. They say he’s the only one could get it done and he’s available any time day or night. They completely overlook all the other stuff and keep the man in the Dail. My point is there are lots of politicians out there who are very good at sorting out personal issues for people, however that does not make them good legislators or even decent human beings. It does make them excellent vote getters.
@Dilly Dong: “Did she spare a single thought in this article for the lives she wants eradicated? Their lost futures?”
Oh stop with your emotional crap Dilly Dong.She ended an unwanted pregnancy and just like the majority of people that do have one,she has gone on to live a very successful life,without regret..Good on her.
@mickmc: Were she from a different political party, you wouldn’t be saying that.
@Jane: call me old fashioned but to my mind and my way of thinking any politician elected by their constituents and representative of their constituents owes it to their constituents to put them and their interests first and foremost, this is something Bríd Smith does and does very well, this is why Bríd Smith will be put in there again, as I said I may not agree with a lot of what she has to say but for her honesty passion and sheer doggedness she’ll get mine and others votes every time….
@Dave Doyle: Well apart from the SF I couldn’t see any other political party allow her to spout out such nonsense.
@Kate Flaherty: tats the definition of parish pump politics and it doesn’t work.
@Jane: it works very well for those she represents who by and large do not have the time nor the energy to be concerned about national or international affairs, they’re busy just trying to get by from day to day, they need someone like Bríd to be their voice and this she does very well with great honesty and integrity…..
@mickmc: She needs permission to use her life experience to highlight an issue she is interested in. Is that what you’re saying?
@Dave Doyle: Well yes in the more respectable party that how the system works. You lot will never be anything more than a noisy rabble on the side line.
@Kate Flaherty: well said
@mickmc: such a way with words
@eileen boles: oh thanks very much. It not often you get complements around here.
Attacking people who hold an opinion different to yours is the act of a bully and not an acceptable way to make your point. As an elected representative you should respect people even those who disagree with you. Your abortion is your story not a lesson for the less enlightened to learn from.
@marg fitzgerald: the exact same could be said of a lot of the comments about this article.
Women should be entitled to choice. No other person but themselves should have the right to be judgemental regarding their choice. Women are the ones who know what’s best for them. It’s wrong to pass judgement on circumstances that one knows nothing about.
@Paul Linehan:
Well said..always wonder are the pro life only pro birth..or willing to pay extra taxes etc…to give that child an equal start..are the same people that complain about single mothers milking the system ..
@Kieran OKeeffe: It’s simply a monetary issue then? There’s so many things wrong with that attitude.
@Kieran OKeeffe:
Babies have Fathers too and it is their responsibility to financially support their children.
@Kieran OKeeffe: I laugh at this “pro-birther” slur. Take a look at GiannaCare, a pro-life charity that provides maternity and baby equipment, clothes and support to mothers and their babies. I know countless pro-life people who work tirelessly in other charities, such as SVdP, homeless shelters and meals-on-wheels.
It is thoroughly consistent for pro-life people to be Pro-All-Life.
Unfortunately, political parties of the Left in the South unanimously advocate for abortion. If the SDLP were here I’d vote for them. Instead I must vote for candidates who will protect the unborn even if their parties are in favour of lower taxation.
@Kieran OKeeffe: wow. I hope i’m wrong but it sounds like you’re suggesting we need abortion to keep taxes down or people should be able to get one based on whether they can afford to have a child or not.
@Brian Lenehan: There is over 3,500 Irish women going for terminations to the UK every year,and they would laugh at the likes of you with your nonsense.What part of not wanting to remain pregnant do you struggle with ?
@Francis Mc Carthy: and were all 3500 life saving issues or was it they just wanted to have sex but not accept possible consequences?
@Dilly Dong: And you think women shouldn’t have a right to decide for themselves…
@Skimothy: so you now believe that women were having sex just so that they could take a trip to the UK to have an abortion ? Fool.
@Francis Mc Carthy: how do you get that from what i said? I said people need to to accept the risks of having sex. Not think “sure ill just get an abortion” if it happens.
@Skimothy: And your lot need to accept that thousands of women each year, will end unwanted pregnancies.Best to have them in a safe,legal environment.
@Skimothy: so should a person who caught and STD just accept that? I mean if you apply that logic to an unwanted pregnancy does the same not apply for someone who contracted HIV, its tough luck get on with it?!
@AnnieBelle: a pregnancy is not a disease. Youre just being silly now.
Preventing unwanted babies in the first place is always going to be a better option than the terrible cure that this politician is advocating. A government policy encouraging more frank & open discussion about safe sex in a school curriculum would be a good starting point, but we’re hindered by the churches involvement their too. . . We’re still a somewhat repressed people when it comes to the sexual education of our children because of our catholic heritage.
@Blind Faith: yes we are still influenced by that evil organisation in some respects, it will take a generation at least to fully shake off
their toxic influence.
If everyone in this comment section believes that the majority population will vote against repel, then what is the problem with a Referendum?
@Shannon Mcg: No one is against a referendum , I believe in abortion in certain circumstances , but not on demand in any circumstance .
It has nothing to do with religion either .
@Ken Hayden: There actually are quite a few people who insist that the issue shouldn’t be put to the people at all. I know – I’ve spoken to them.
@Malachi: I suppose there are people like that really , but it would be a minority I would imagine . I have to say I respect their point of view , to a point , They see themselves protecting the unborn child , and I think Brid has shot herself in the foot by suggesting it’s a ”control over women” issue .
I don’t think that saying there should be a limit to grounds for abortion is some sort of patriarchal ”trip” , if it were , we would see the vote go along the gender divide . This issue is far more complicated than that , and I think this article will set the cause of the repeal side back a bit .
@Malachi: I wouldn’t be particularly in favour of a referendum, personally speaking. I wouldn’t agree with putting the human-rights of any cohort of society (in this case the unborn) up to chance or the vagaries of a referendum. Our history, and that of our neighbours, is clouded with numerous examples of slam-dunk referenda that inexplicably went the other way. Rolling the dice is always risky, I wouldn’t want to do with with the lives of unborn children.
@Brian Lenehan: Yet you’ve no problem rolling the dice with the lives of pregnant people.
@Felicity Hensen: As stated previously, women’s lives are not endangered by the absence of abortion. Abortion is not a treatment for any physiological condition.
Women do not die from a lack of abortion.
@Brian Lenehan: Abortion saves lives .Deal with it.
@Brian Lenehan: So you consider “The People” far too stupid to understand such a complex issue as abortion and as a result should be denied their democratic right to vote. That we should leave it to the elites to decide what is good for us as they obviously know better right? Get T Fu U Basa.
@Brian Lenehan: Tell that to Savita.
@Francis Mc Carthy: at the expense of the life of the unborn! If it is a pregnancy outside the womb then obviously the pregnancy must be terminated to save the woman’s life. If an abortion is necessary medically to save the life of the mother then the choice is very much already made. However an abortion simply because the pregnancy is a social inconvenience is a totally different thing, it is inhumane.
@Micheal S. O’ Ceilleachair: That is just your opinion.The majority (61%) of abortions are done on women that are already mothers,surely they know what is best for them and their families,not some lad like you that they don’t even give a second thought about..
What is inhumane is forcing a girl against her will,to become a parent Example: when they section them against their will
What is inhumane,is forcing a woman that has had a horrible experience of a pregnancy,to have to go through that experience again
What is inhumane,is forcing a woman that has been abused in her home by her partner,to bring a child into that environment
What is inhumane,is forcing a woman that has health issues (diabetes) to go through with a pregnancy that could end up causing her serious medical problems..
I could go on Michael.
@Micheal S. O’ Ceilleachair: Abortion is not just a fashion tag that women decide to take on for the craic. Get down off you high horse. If your wife, daughter, sister, any close female relative to you had for any reason the need for an abortion would you tell them to their face that what they are doing is inhumane? I mean cause not all women who have sex go out of their way to get pregnant, contraception can fail, so can relationships, rape happens, I could go on and on. Think about your female relatives and the fact that you look at them as baby makers rather than humans. Sex is for pleasure not just procreation
Abortion should be a personal matter between a woman and her gynaecologist, no one else has the right to interfere. Her body, her decision. End of.
@dorothy giselsson: Absolutely agree. The gynaecologist’s response being “Abortion on demand isn’t an option”.
@dorothy giselsson: No it is the woman’s own choice and certainly she needs access to information about how to have a safe abortion. The gynae has no right to make her feel she is doing wrong to have an abortion. It is not up to the gyane in any sense.
This woman must have some serious personal issues and a dark past, how dare she speak for “All Irish women’ ” in her comments. She certainly comes across as a selfish ME, MYSELF AND I person and unfortunately having the likes of her as a public representative is not good on any grounds.
@et: All of us feel that a very early abortion is not like killing a newborn. We know that. She is not evil. No pro-choice person wants late abortions to happen. Late abortions happen more in cultures that encourage the woman not to abort which then has her waiting too long.
A very self-centred article in which there was no recognition whatsoever of the most vulnerable of all, the unborn child. No reference whatsoever to proposed restrictions (time limits) on abortion. It never ceases to amaze me at the way the pro-abortion side attempt to project themselves as “compassionate” yet what they propose is the destruction of human life..
@Stephen Duffy: “The unborn child” <-medically there is no such thing
If I ever had to choose between my wife,daughter and sisters life over an embryos,there is only going to be one winner.And it sure ain't going to be the embryos 'life' that I choose.It is gone.Adios.
@Francis Mc Carthy:
What seems to escape your logic is that you actually have no control over when or how any of your loved ones will die, no one does.
@Aine O Connor: I said “if” I had to choose between the life of an embryo and that of the people in my life,I would choose theirs .Of course I dunno when they’re going to depart this world.You antis are a hoot.
@Francis Mc Carthy:
I prefer to think that the word anti refers more to those who are anti life.
@Francis Mc Carthy: okay,the child within the womb.
it is either an embryo or a foetus when it’s in the womb.Jeez!
How can I be ‘anti life’ when I’m a father of 5 children ?!
Anti choicer’s want just one outcome and that is the woman going full term with every unwanted/wanted pregnancy.
I am happy for her to have that choice,whatever it is..
@Francis Mc Carthy: but Francis you don’t believe that life exists in the womb at all. Do you not remember this? You only believe that life exists, in any form, following birth. A stance that defies all medical science of course but how and ever I presume it’s a conscience thing. Yet here you are again talking about life of the fetus. How bizarre! You have also said previously that you advocate late term abortions for any reason. You would fall into the most extreme pro abortionist bracket therefore. But that’s your choice. Live and let live! Excuse the intentional pun.
I feel sorry for Brid Smith as even she does not realise the extent to which she has been brainwashed and how she appears to be living in the past. Having an unplanned pregnancy may come as a shock initially but every cloud has a silver lining. As for sex education , this generation knows more about sex than I thought was possible.!
@Aine O Connor: The silver lining was that she got to travel to the UK to end that unwanted pregnancy .It’s a story with a wonderful ending for her :-)
@Francis Mc Carthy:
That was her decision.
@Aine O Connor: And that is what the living do,they make decisions on what is best for them and ‘their’ lives.
@Francis Mc Carthy:
Except her unborn baby had no choice.
@Aine O Connor: There you go again with your emotional hogwash. Embryos don’t get a choice when it comes to when a human being makes that decision..Gosh..
I’m against abortion but I believe.that in a very select group of cases where a foetus is clearly not going to live once born (no brain, head, upper body) then removing the foetus before full term should be an allowed option. However, I strongly believe this should not be called ‘abortion’, and the fact that this tragic outcome for any woman is included in the abortion debate gives pro abortioners a stick to beat pro lifers with.
To my mind an abortion should never be a run of the mill medical procedure no different than cleaning out a blocked ear, which is how Brida Smith and others want it to become. Abortion is the act of choosing yourself over another.
@Northern Craic: I find it interesting that you think abortion is okay in certain instances, but not others. Why do you think you have the authority to determine these parameters for other people? Do you not think it should be up to the individual in question to make that determination?
@Felicity Hensen: As I said I don’t believe removing a foetus which has no head is abortion at all. That’s common sense. Removing a foetus because it’s inconvenient is Abortion.
@Northern Craic: Abortion is ending the ending of a pregnancy,whether it has a head or not…She doesn’t see it as a “person” like you do.She would be correct.It is a foetus.
@Francis Mc Carthy: I called it a foetus.
@Northern Craic: You did indeed.But you also called it ‘another’ which is why I said what I did..
Choosing to have or not to produce a human being by its nature involves a choice regarding sexual intercourse. If a man and woman choose unprotected sex then they are leaving open the possibility of conception. Once that is done they are exercising their reproductive right. They are exercising their right to choose to procreate. The problem is whether people belief that at the moment of conception a human life has begun. Or does a human life begin when the foetus becomes “viable”? And who determines that moment? Also it takes two to create so does the father have any reproductive rights? This TDs views are clouded by her probably being an atheist and seem very convoluted. It is hard to know how her conscience allows for abortion. It is exercising a choice after the choice has been made.
@Micheal S. O’ Ceilleachair: and what if the woman in question had no choice? Rape, failed contraception, paedophilia? You are correct that there is a question about when human life actually begins and no one has a clear answer to that. But what is clear is that it is the woman who must carry that life forward and that life cannot exist outside her body. Should she not have autonomy over her own body?
@Micheal S. O’ Ceilleachair: “this TD’s views are clouded by her probably being an Atheist”. What kind of statement is that, probably as bad as the one I’m about to make, and you are the good Catholic who didn’t have your first sexual encounter outside of wedlock.
@Andrew Giles: Yes both statements are indeed pathetic.
@Noirin Kavanagh: scientists have an answer to that, but pro-aborts don’t listen. Biologists will tell you quite emphatically that human life is created at conception – it is at that point that a human gets their own DNA, separate to that of their parents, and an allocation of chromosomes that determine their gender.
Human life starts at conception, there is no other point that is as transformational in our existence. “Viability” is not an appropriate marker. With new technologies babies are surviving earlier and earlier outside of the womb. Birth is not an appropriate marker. There is no valid reason why a human situated on one side of the birthing canal would be “a clump of cells”, but only a few minutes later a human being enjoying all the protections afforded to you and me.
@Brian Lenehan: If a woman finds out that she is pregnant and she wants to end it,she will not listen nor read the amount of bs that you wrote above.
1) The majority(65-70%) of embryos never make it to utero <- do some fundraising for all of those "people"..Oh that's right,their "lives" don't matter.
2) Put up credible evidence that neo nates are surviving at less than 22 weeks,and if they "survived," can you then tell us what if any complications that they had afterwards ? That would be good.No wait,that would be interesting.
3) Sure aren't we all a 'clump of cells' Brian eh?
4) Majority (99%) of abortions happen when the embryo/foetus isn't viable.You are talking about the 1% of late term abortions which are carried out for health reasons..Are they the only ones that you really "care" about ?
@Northern Craic: as intended
@Noirin Kavanagh: the three exceptions you mention have validity to a certain extent. However the created life had no responsibility for how it was created or its own creation. The exceptions you refer to are valid in the context of the danger to the life of the mother and how this danger is validated. If it is the situation then the doctor’s medical oath to do no harm comes in to influence the decision. Not to save the unborn where there is no threat to the mother’s life should not be allowable.
@Micheal S. O’ Ceilleachair: In fact religion treats abortion as if it were stealing a toffee bar. It grants alleged forgiveness from a god who forgives so easily that it is clear that he does not really care. Religion is a placebo for evil and if abortion is evil then enough said! Religious people and atheists have abortions. Religion is no deterrent. In parts of the world religious people may abort disproportionately high compared to atheists.
Bird well said and excellently put. It encapsulates the the degree of Church Control over matters of State many years ago. Time to give women the choice but I would Qualify this by saying that abortion in no way should be allowed because it might cause embarrassment to certain social classes . None of us Politicians or others would be here only for the reproductive powers of our Parents be they wedded or not .
@Dilly Dong: “She can do what she likes with her own body,but if pregnant there are two”
You got the first part right Dilly :-)
She will always have the power over her own body,mind your own uterus.Oh wait,you don’t have one of those .Hilarious.
She is trying to demonise and stereotype Pro Life people in general and those who were at rally for life.Lazy and cheap shot. Pro Life people come from all faiths and none, men, women , straight and gay, young, old, poor and rich. Arguing that Pro Life people simply want to control women and don’t care about social justice e.g. War, poverty is utter tripe. I was a paid up member of Amnesty International as indeed were many many Pro Life people until it was high jacked by the the Pro Choice movement.
Well done Brid. I struggle to understand why the government ‘establishment’ believes that the majority of women (and men) don’t want the 8th repealed, or want it changed – but to still maintain restrictions in some way. Baffling. I sincerely hope that they give us all the respect we deserve and allow a full and open vote (same choices as the people’s assembly). Quickly!
@Maire Ganly: and what will you say if the full and open vote does not approve of abortion?
@Micheal S. O’ Ceilleachair: at least people will have had the vote on it..and no matter what the outcome is,we will still have thousands of Irish women procuring abortions..whether it be legally or illegally..I know which ones that I would prefer to be happening..
@Maire Ganly: Maire what makes you think the majority of Irish people want abortion introduced? Do you have any evidence?
I admire you for speaking so candidly and giving a place in Truth and self justification to other Women who might be tortured by self recrimination where there is no need for them to feel alone or abandoned by Society. We as people are a growing Society and our Hearts are open to support and hopefully never to condemn.
Catherine sims would like a return to total societal control by the church with its curtain twitching priesty camp followers ratting on their neighbours
Most people don’t like the “idea” of “abortion),but its the states duty to make laws for everyone,and the mother’s life with a fatal foetal abnormality,where a decision has to b made by a consultant ,has to take priority .If u feel u must,continue the anti abortion campaigns by all means,but,not enforce it by law,whereby you are state property once pregnant in Ireland.People will go to another country and get the treatment they need ,which is not the sign of a mature state.
For goodness sake can we move on. No woman would have an abortion without thinking about it long and hard. It really is between the woman and her doctor it is her body after all. Women get raped, have medical emergencies and yes we make mistakes we need to decide what todo after that with information and without recriminations.
@Gillian Weir Scully: well said
Her whole rationale is ridiculous! And to deny that people are concerned with ‘life’ is verging on delusional. “What they really care about is… maintaining power and control over women…” . Yeah right!
Pro life same as anti war!!! A bit of a licence there to say it’s the same… Unfortunately lots of wars are justified. Currently reading a book on the brave British and Irish men and women who travelled to Spain in 1937 to fight Franco fascist nationalist army. Them same heros today would in general have been Ms Smith and her like supporters….
You can’t create or eliminate someone else’s shame. That’s either felt or not felt by them in their own situation(s). Just saying…..
A child is a child like we were all zygotes once as well? We are here because of love?
@Alois Irlmaier: A caterpillar has the potential to become a butterfly. However, it is not a butterfly. And you may want to reconsider the love aspect given the circumstances that many people experience that results in a pregnancy.
@Felicity Hensen: It is a butterfly because it is a Lepidoptera, at any stage or age?
The abortion debate is not about shame. It’s about whether it’s legally and morally acceptable to kill a fetus. https://www.babycenter.com/6_your-pregnancy-12-weeks_1101.bc
No, you didn’t.
Brid says it like it is. Like the opposition to Divorce, when it came in it did not mean everyhone had to have one. And so with abortion – let women decide what they want to do with their own bodies. It is no one else’s business. Keep going Brid.
@Mary Darlington: abortion becomes a public matter when taxpayers are forced to fund the barbaric practice against their freedom of conscience.
Do not forget that when the embryo is a ball of cells it is eliminated by the contraceptive pill. We already have legal abortion on demand albeit at a very early stage.
A womans right to choose? Well she chose, She chose to have sex , then she may have not used contraception and then when she was pregnant she chose to have an abortion because being pregnant and having a child did not suit her at the time. ( her words)
In her previous article she mentioned she came back to Dublinafter the abortion had a few scoops and went to bed. Her boyfriend, partner whatever had some qualms about it and he is now here ex..Great empowered woman, no shame yippee
Then she brings in the Catholic church laundries etc .How dated and how desperate. Yes there were terrible institutions but I was threatened with the likes of Letterfrack in 1969 . Different times different societies.
The mother and baby homes were often the only institutions that took many of the women in at those times, it was the middle/ upper classes who often dumped their daughters and maintained the status quo of the church while the poor and working class often brought them up as a sister or brother in an extended family.
The lack of choice for women in the past, the inequalities in society is being used as an excuse for uncontrolled abortion, using abortion to chose sex, as a form of contraception when the consequences of ones action is not convenient.
Women and men must take personal responsibilities for their actions , if they are going to have unprotected sex then conception is a possible consequence. And if you want an abortion because it does not suit then its your responsibility, no one else , not the church, inequality in society, wars, the HSE or Donald trump. Its yours . .
have your say