second only to Gays for Palestine having an office in erm Palestine

Militants are terrified of educated people, much harder to control. Its why the attacks happened in Pakistan. Hope these satanic worshipers are cut right down, cowards.

Where you get American military bases, you get American buildings. To actually have a university shows how many Yank military personnel are there.

Privately run, incorporated in the state of Delaware (mainland Panama). Hubris and tax games.

Hoofedup: I agree with you, up to the point where you mentioned they are satanic worshippers. They are not, they worship the same Abrahamic God of Christianity and Judaism. They believe God will reward them with paradise. Ironically satanism is more focused like a Nietzsche type philosophy and commonly misunderstood. Just to clarify, I don’t believe in any type of religion.

@John B—-No they don’t worship the same Abrahamic God of Christianity and Judaism..They worship Mohammed’s Allah as recorded by Mohammed in his revelations from Allah in the Koran.Such recodings began in 610 and prior to that there was never any mention of Mohammed,Islam,Muslim in any text ,artifacts,coins by anyone .
It was all an invention of Mohammed’s sick mind to gain some authenticity for his new religion/ideology.

Check your facts.

Hoofed up – that depends on what you mean by educated. The leader of IS has a PhD from Al Azhar university.

Patrick you make a common mistake. Firstly you talk about Islam being made up. They are all made up clearly. But historically it is true to say Islam is an Abrahamic religion, Christianity, Judaism and Islam share more similarities than you would imagine and they are defined as follows: An Abrahamic religion is a religion whose people believe that the Hebrew patriarch Abraham and his descendants hold an important role in human spiritual development. The best known Abrahamic religions are Judaism, Christianity and Islam. I didn’t come up with this myself. It is a standard acceptance by theologians. Where they differ is that Islam whilst believing Jesus was a prophet from God/Allah (yes Muslims believe in the same Jesus that Christians do except they believe he was a prophet like Mohammed rather than the actual son of God), they believe that Mohammed is the final prophet and thus more accurate scripture from God.

Any other clarifications you need just shoot.

Being an Abrahamic religion is not the same thing as worshipping the same Abrahamic God. There are glaring inconsistencies between the Quranic account of Christianity and Judaism and those religions’ own teachings. There is rather more than one difference between those religions. The question of God as will or logos for example is quite a fundamental one. As is the concept of the triune god and the question of what happened at the crucifixion. Whether any god is real or not, it is perfectly theologically legitimate to say that Allah of the Quran is not the same entity as the God of Judaism or Christianity. Your account is a standard one but it’s shallow to put it mildly.

they are all just variations on the same theme

A single variation in a genome can be the difference between life and death. Variation matters as much as commonality.

Not to mention the far from minor problem that the actual adherents of all 3 religions have had some quite bloodthirsty difficulties even agreeing among themselves on a common theme for a millennia or three now. But I’m sure their current members would be delighted to be enlightened by you as to what that theme is. Although some of them might stone you in return for your wisdom.

@John B—Muslims believe as Mohammet taught and Mohammet taught that the Jews and Christians falsified scriptures to conceal Mohammet’s claim that Jesus was a Muslim prophet who also predicted the coming of Mohammet. Mohammet could not and Muslims today cannot produce any scriptural proof that authentic Judeo-Christian scriptures are forgeries other than what Mohammet claimed in Islamic sacred text which has no citings prior to Mohammet. Therefore Islam begins with Mohammet.and has no authentic connection to anything going on inJudeo-Christian scrptures and Mohammet is a Fraud.

Marlowe, it’s the journal, of course my point is shallow, I am noting to write a three page essay as most can fill the gaps themselves. My point is valid, the doctrines might differ but they are all evolutions of the same Abrahamic religion/God. When you say worshipping different gods it is quite confusing. Firstly there is no evidence for any God. However Abrahamic religions believe different dogmas in relation to what they conceive as the same God. Same chocolate bar, different wrappers.

Ah, you’re a whataboutery troll, I wont waste my time. Someone should invent a funny gif that pops up to say ‘But whatabout the Crusades!’ every time islam is mentioned in any context. Then your kind could just post that instead and at least we’d all get a laugh out of it. But you are a humourless bunch unfortunately. The pay must be rubbish.

Marlowe, if your intellect is insufficient to argue when someone disagrees with you,then take up Bowles instead of commenting on the journal. It’s much more relaxing ;)

I was being charitable in calling it shallow. Doctrine is the actual content of religious belief – not the, eh, wrapping. And as a matter of fact, many Christians and Jews throughout history have disagreed and continue to disagree that they conceive god in the same way as muslims do the one speaking through the Quran. They have disagreed quite vehemently and violently about that. The existence of either god is neither here nor there. If you had actually read the Quran and compared it to the Bible you would understand why that disagreement has been so persistent.

John, I was speaking about Gunnarsahn. I don’t argue with those who engage in persistent logical fallacies. They get an appropriate ad hominem in return. On the other hand, I rarely if ever criticize even their intellect. I find that kind of intellectual arrogance is nothing more than thinly disguised class bigotry which is rampant among those who consider themselves to be well educated these days.

Marlowe you talk about intellectual bigotry and yet your passive aggressiveness characterizes what you seemingly despise. Religions are representations of early human society trying to understand the world we live.
Judaism through Christianity to Islam are evolutions of a belief in the one God of Abraham. Jews believe in God through the special sanctity of Moses. Christianity though the Old Testament recognizes the relationship of Judaism and the God of Abraham but they believe Jesus superseded them. Islam recognizes the prophets of Adam, Abraham, Moses and Jesus and indeed they pay special respect to these biblical prophets both in the phrase “peace be upon then” and the fact that many Muslims name their children after those prophets. Interestingly, the Koran mentions Jesus more than the New Testament! However, in the same way Christians believe Jesus superseded Moses, Muslims believe Mohammed supersedes them both as the final prophet of the God of Abraham. They recognize the content of the old and New Testament but just believe it was corrupted and inaccurate and that the Koran is a final and more accurate revelation.

What I describe here is commonly accepted historicity of the God of Abraham. I didn’t make it up myself. Whether or not modern adherents to these individual Faith’s argue as to their individual veracity or as to whether or not they reference the same God is important but there is a clear path from the Old Testament to the Koran linking them together.

@Joan B.-Again,-what basic ordinary people want is proof! In this case what proof is there of any mention of Islam,Muslim,Mohammet prior to Mohammet. If there be no trace of anyone we have to reject the existance of Mohammet’s fraudulent claims.

Patrick that is the most interesting argument. To take your intellectual premise and apply it further: prior to the New Testament there was no reference to Christianity and Jesus therefore it’s false. Prior to Moses there is no prior documentation of the God of Abraham therefore it is false. In a way I agree with you: it’s all false, made up my human minds.

Marlowe, IS leaders are very educated, thats why they do not anyone questioning there evil motives.

Hoofedup you make an excellent point. Anyone who disagrees with Hoofedup should read ISIS’ 6 reasons why they hate us (aka infidels) which was recently published in an ISIS rag mag. The content and clarity of writing is frightening. It reveals that there are people of great intellect who have also been seduced. Those who say it’s just moronic psychopaths in ISIS miss the more frightening truth.

@John B-The New Testament scribes did not claim that the Olds Testament scribes had falsified the scriptures to conceal the coming of Jesus as far as I know. Mohammet claimed that both Jewish and Christians scribes had falsified the Judeo-Christian scriptures to conceal Mohammet’s coming. No proof at all just fraudulent assertions.
Your analogy too, is false, obviously.

Patrick so you think New Testament Christians believe that the God of Abraham is the mindless sadistic God of the Old Testament? Or do most Christians acknowledge that the Old Testament is a little barbaric and fundamentally flawed? Muslims don’t believe the writes of the old and New Testament purposely falsified them, but that the message is corrupted. I am actually being quite consistent here, it is you who wishes to apply a concept to Islam and yet ignore how the same concept blatantly applies to the new and Old Testament. Perhaps as an outsider (atheist) it is easier to look in with a cold clinical mind without bias.

I read the Koran many years ago, I remember it had a chapter or two about Jesus being a great and wise prophet, and also a chapter dedicated to his mother Mary. Overall I thought it swung wildly between messages of peace and tolerance for others, to sudden outbursts of hate and death to non-believers or people who did not submit to Mohammed’s particular beliefs. I’d imagine psychological parallels could be made with the cult leaders of modern times. If they could gather that much of a following, they’d more than likely act in the very same manner.

Ffs with religion…. Mad savage demonic basterds hell bent on power….if they were religious as they say, this would not happen.

Blind, that’s because the verses of the Quran are arranged in order from longest to shortest, or the other way around, I forget. But it can only be understood in chronological order of the date of alleged revelation because later verses abrogate, cancel basically, earlier ones. That’s why many non-muslims who read the Quran think that it’s simply confused and contradictory and that muslims must therefore be able to simply choose the peaceful bits and ignore the rest. If you read one laid out in chronololgical order you’ll unfortunately find that the violent intolerant verses are later than the relatively peaceful ones.

John, no, the Quran very clearly claims that it was the Christians and Jews who corrupted or neglected the teachings of the other prophets. It does not use the passive tense as you do. Allah gets quite pissed off with them about it in fact.

And, conveniently, the core way in which they’re claimed to have corrupted their scriptures is that they edited out references to the future arrival of Mohammed. Quite ingenious of him really. That’s one of the reasons why Christians are IS targets.

What muslims believe and what’s written in the Quran are of course two different things yet you repeatedly conflate the two. You either haven’t read the Quran or you haven’t understood it. Most of what you say is standard Islamist misinformation which anyone willing to read the Quran can discover for themselves.

Marlowe it’s been about 5 years since I thumbed my dusty copy of the Koran but perhaps since you are so certain, can you refer me to some verses that specify the Torah and New Testament are corrupt?

I do remember many references to the prior prophets, and they are easy to find. I do find references to leaving the Christians and Jews as they are people of the book. But none about specifically corruption like you say.

@John B-Time to come down from your lofy perch and look at facts below.
—”Shakir/Koran 5:13
But on account of their breaking their covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard; they altered the words from their places and they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of; and you shall always discover treachery in them excepting a few of them; so pardon them and turn away; surely Allah loves those who do good (to others).
(Accessed: http://quran.com/5/10-16)
—”
—”Muslims should note that nowhere in the Qur’an there is even a suggestion that the Christian Biblical text has been altered or corrupted. The word “tahrif” is never used with reference to the Christian Gospels (Injil). The Qur’an occasionally accuses the Jews of altering their Scripture (like in Surah 5:13); but it never levels this accusation at Christians. It in no way implies that the text of the Gospel of Jesus (Injil) has been corrupted. In fact, the Qur’an attests to the validity of the Christian Gospels, Zabur (Psalms) and the Torah.—”
—” Even after Allah confirmed the Torah and Gospel, Islamic Mullahs and Imams have tried to sell the lie that the Christian Gospels and Jewish Torah have been corrupted.

This a complete lie! This lie is perpetuated by Islam, because of all the historic, scientific, and simple mathematical errors in the Koran/Qur’an – as you’ll see below… The Qur’an just doesn’t add up.

“They” could not have changed the Christian Gospels after Muhammad, since there are 5,735 (Welte, 2003) manuscripts of the whole or part of the Greek text of the New Testament (Injil) pre-dating Muhammad still in existence. Worldwide, there are 24,800 copies of these original manuscripts. These include the Codex Vaticanus (325-350 AD) located in the Vatican library and the Codex Siniaticus (350 AD) located in the British Museum. There are also 80,000 quotations in the works of early Christian writers which are so extensive that the New Testament could virtually be reconstructed from them without the actual New Testament documents. Then there is the obvious fact that the Christian Gospels were so widely distributed both before and after Muhammad, that any attempt to change (add/subtract) something in the Christian Gospels would have resulted in immediate discovery and condemnation. Additionally, the New Testament was handed down from apostolic times and its genuineness was guarded by Christian churches, and it was zealously watched by enemies of Christianity. A very wide protest would have resulted from both sides were it tampered with. Likewise, the Septuagint edition of the Old Testament was always in the hands of both Christians and Jews, both rivals in religion. Any attempts to change this by either side would have been vigorously attacked. —”

Patrick thanks kindly for verifying what I said. The Koran does not state the bible has been corrupted. I knew that already. But thank you for providing material to confirm my point. I don’t have a perch to come down off, I’m comfortable on my chair. ;)

@John B – You are wrong. Read over your own posts.You said Muslims dont believe that the scriptures were deliberately falsified. In Koran 5:13 it says the Jews ‘altered’ the scriptures.
I am not verifying but cotradicting what you asserted in your post above.

Patrick I knew you would bring up 5:13, not that I have memorized the Koran but that is the verse commonly misinterpreted because it actually does not directly reference the bible in the manner you describe. Indeed it reaffirms the scriptures prior to the Koran and is taken to affirm that Jews have read the scriptures and taken the work of God but that they misinterpret the those very words and misuse them. Ps I am not sticking up for Islam, merely pointing out that they are all very similar and almost chronological evolutions from the Old Testament.

Wow usually in the journal it’s a battle with people that never recognize their errors but in your case it seems you keep churning out stuff to support my factually correct argument. Thank you kindly again.

Ps I reiterate again that as an atheist I can clearly recognize all three human conceptualisations of a God of Abraham contain numerous contradictions and sadistic warlike God visions as they are all just books written by imperfect humans trying to describe a scary and inexplicable world.

Well bob unless you’ve been living in a cave for the last year or so you might have missed the numerous Islamic terrorist attacks in Germany, not to mention the planned Dusseldorf attack that the authorities fortunately scuppered otherwise it would most likely have been another Paris like attack.

I’d say there is a clear and present danger of yet another Islamic attack, not just in Germany but many other Western European countries.

have they got their iodine tablets?

Live in Germany Curragh. Saw this the other day. I can assure that I am correct. Germany has just updated an existing precaution that it has in place for its citizens for many years. Nothing to see here.

The mess is more deliberate than happenstance.

Mick — Your grasp of history leaves a lot to be desired.

Excellent point…

sure jinn the koran is practically modern compared to the talmud / old testament

Well it was written later but is a totally different revelation than the bible
The themes of the Koran are totally different to the old and New Testament

@Marshallow@Peter-Absolutely! I will check for helpful websites for those who wish to leave Islam and include them in my future comments.

Oh no, it wasn’t a coincidence that the University was American. Obviously.

My point is that attacking a University is a disgraceful and a pretty hilarious attempt at fighting “imperialism”. Attack a military base if anything ffs.

It does say a lot that you’re supportive of an attack on an place of learning, though.

Attack a military base!? You might be a tad bit detached from reality there. I’m not sure you’re aware of it but it’s not exactly a fair fight. It’s not like American air and drone strikes haven’t been deliberately targeting civilians and civilian institutions either. To have American universities for families of American military personnel is part of the imperialistic policy in Afghanistan. They are just as much a legitimate target as anything.

You think civilians are legitimate targets? Lol.

Hey, at least you’re being honest. You and Trump share the belief that attacking the families (women, children) of your enemies is acceptable.

All American institutions are legitimate targets in Afghanistan considering their occupation of the country.

An American military apologist that doesn’t think civilians are legitimate targets? How does one come to be that way!?

What a bizarre assertion. Where did you get the impression that I am an apologist for the US military? I have openly condemned their actions on a number of occasions.

Indeed I think the fascists and Islamists the US continue to work with put civilians at risk.

However, I do hold the moral highground here as it seems you are actually positing that it is fine to target innocents.

It’s funny, you’d probably rightly criticise the US military for the number of civilians they have killed over the years, yet you seemingly have no problem with the death of innocent civilians in principle.

A fascinating worldview!

Stating that all institutions belonging to an occupier are legitimate targets is a ‘fascinating worldview’? You’re not exactly that knowledgeable on early 20th century Irish history then…or practically every instance of colonial revolt?

@John003-Also a lot of things that break their hearts such as sodomy by the imams which is widespread in the Madrassas.

and the seminaries I hear

Spock knew how to handle the Iralians. .