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AP Photo/Marcia Dunn

SpaceX rocket explodes on launch pad

There were no injuries.

A ROCKET BELONGING to Elon Musk’s SpaceX company has exploded on a launch pad in Florida.

The rocket was at the Cape Canaveral site today ahead of a planned launch of an Israeli satellite on Saturday.

There have been no reports of any injuries, but the blast was large enough to shake buildings several miles away.

Nasa says that the company was test firing the unmanned rocket when the explosion occurred this afternoon.

SpaceX spokesman, John Taylor, said he could not comment as he worked to gather information.

NASA — SpaceX’s major customer — said the explosion occurred at Launch Complex 40 at the Air Force station, and Kennedy emergency staff was on standby. At the same time, personnel were monitoring the air for any toxic fumes.

SpaceX is one of two companies shipping supplies to the space station for NASA. It’s also working on a crew capsule to ferry US astronauts; that first flight was supposed to come as early as next year.

The explosion is a setback for SpaceX. The California-based company, led by billionaire Elon Musk, had been ramping up with frequent launches to make up for a backlog created by a launch accident in June 2015. SpaceX was leasing the pad from the Air Force for its Falcon launches.

With AP reporting.

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41 Comments
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    Mute Ellen Doolan
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    Nov 27th 2013, 8:53 AM

    While a family with 150k debt with a devastating drop in income and increased medical expenses are told tough shite

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    Mute Dusty O'Brien
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    Nov 27th 2013, 9:19 AM

    This is the real issue with the insolvency service. Once you have allowed for basic living expenses, the fees for the PIP and then have enough left over to make a reasonable offer to the creditors, it’s actually really only suited to those earning 40k per year plus.

    It is essentially a middle class debt settlement. That said, it may provide a framework for those on lower incomes to have debts written down by the creditors.

    Here’s hoping I guess …

    42
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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Nov 27th 2013, 9:22 AM

    I know someone who is a PIP he says a lot of people he sees can not afford his services……

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    Mute Amanda Murray
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    Nov 27th 2013, 8:47 AM

    I don’t really think it’s fair that people with 600k of debt would be given this kind of protection, while someone else who owes a couple of payments on their mortgage (eg. owing 2k+) could be sent to prison for non payment. That’s like saying anyone who decided to live well beyond their means during the boom are favoured over those who didn’t. Ridiculous, and confusing too for that matter.

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    Mute Dusty O'Brien
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    Nov 27th 2013, 8:51 AM

    You can’t be sent to prison for non payment of a mortgage – it’s a civil matter. Also anyone with debts can seek a pia you don’t have to be in arrears

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    Mute George Martin
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    Nov 27th 2013, 6:14 PM

    Amanda.

    If you have a problem with this, then do not go to America or Britain or most countries in the world.

    This law is viewed as too strict and in favour of the banks by most external observers.

    1
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    Mute gastrophase
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    Nov 27th 2013, 8:37 AM

    If the bank takes a 600k hit then yes, it will be regular joe’s mortgage rates or taxes it will recoup it from.

    128
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    Mute Dusty O'Brien
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    Nov 27th 2013, 8:44 AM

    Firstly the hit won’t be 600k – the idea of a pia is to write down a portion of the lending not the whole lot.

    Secondly, is not one bank – it’s several.

    Thirdly, we’ve already paid for this with the previous bailouts. Strictly speaking, the State should have insisted that all banks immediately wrote down debts on receipt of bailout money but they didn’t. Now they have the cash and are still resisting writedowns.

    Go figure?

    99
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    Mute Darren Moore
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    Nov 27th 2013, 8:49 AM

    Completely agree the banks received the cash to cover the losses they had projected so they had reserves to cover deposits when this happened . they have not taken the hit yet .

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    Mute YouNeek
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    Nov 27th 2013, 12:11 PM

    At dusty, a huge amount of bad debt has been written off and secondly there is much more onerous capital requirements. Thirdly there has been no bailout for domestic mortgages. It’s too difficult to overcome moral hazard that’s why any insolvency has to be onerous. It’s not like a business insolvency at all.

    6
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    Mute Dusty O'Brien
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    Nov 27th 2013, 1:02 PM

    The bailouts and increased capital requirements were assessed on the full loan books of the banks and explicitly included mortgage lending. The banks have been trying to keep the money and not write down the loans. This is the reason for the public targets in relation to distressed mortgages and the closure of the Dunne loophole so as to allow repossessions to proceed.

    In other words, an attempt to force the lenders to deal with the issue, book the losses (that they have been paid for already) and allow people to get on with their lives. If someone is to get a fresh start in 5 years, then being forced to live on minimal income for that duration is the price to be set for this.

    Have a look at the vincentian income guidelines and ask yourself if you want to live on this for 5 years – it’s not a walk in the park but does offer that fresh start. Of course, it’s conjecture at this point, this application has not been accepted and the exact details of the monaghan case have not yet been published.

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    Mute YouNeek
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    Nov 27th 2013, 4:57 PM

    At dusty, you seemed confused, the bailout out money is gone for the most part. It was used to plug holes made in the banks balance sheets due to selling loans to Nama at 50%-60% of their value. This money is gone for the most part. Any left the bank must retain to keep adequate capital. This is a legal and very practical requirement. The banks do not have sufficient funds to reduce mortgages across the board and I for one would find it morally reprehensible for it to be done on a case by case basis without a very onerous insolvency regime.

    7
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    Mute Dusty O'Brien
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    Nov 27th 2013, 9:15 PM

    Not confused at all YouNeek – in order to pass the last EU wide stress testing, the banks had to raise their capital reserves further based on a worst case scenario on their entire loan books including all mortgage debt. So the capitalisation was done in advance.

    That said, I am not arguing for any widespread writedowns, I merely said that strictly speaking, the argument could be made that the writedowns could have been insisted on in exchange for the enhanced capital ratios.

    I agree that an exoneration of debt should be accompanied by a strict oversight it’s just a pity that it only really covers those with middle class incomes.

    1
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    Mute YouNeek
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    Nov 27th 2013, 11:45 PM

    @ dusty, you are confused, suggesting greater capital in exchange for debt write downs doesn’t make sense. They are effectively on the same side of a balance sheet, bad debt provision is kind if similar to capital as it’s there to meet a liability when it occurs. Saying they can be traded us nonsense. You also don’t understand that a bank having to have greater capital reserves reduces it’s ability to loan out money or essentially do business. I don’t see why they would see that as some favour bestowed on them.

    As regards your reference to middle class well that’s total bollicks and deliberately an attempt to politicise an accounting and legal mechanism.

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    Mute Dusty O'Brien
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    Nov 28th 2013, 8:34 AM

    The increased capital requirements of the last stress test were to allow for a greater buffer in the event the the bank should have to provision for bad debt. It assumed a worst case scenario of loan default (including residential mortgages) and was put in place to show that, if all those loans did in fact default, the banks could provision and still function. In theory then, this meant that the banks could take the writedowns and carry on lending. Check out the arguments of Gurgdiev and others on this. You don’t really seem to understand the distinction between capital ratios, bad debt provisions and booked losses.

    Secondly – if you read what I said, you will know that it is the insolvency legislation that I am referring to as being for the middle class. Not the capital reserve mechanism – please make the effort to understand a point before rushing to Label it as ‘bollix’

    1
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    Mute YouNeek
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    Nov 28th 2013, 9:00 AM

    @ dusty, sorry you were the one suggesting a trade off god the banks which made no sense. You are obviously back tracking on that issue as you haven’t backed that “argument” up. Your issue regarding capital ratios is very amateurish as you completely ignore funding costs, etc. Greater write down of debt will mean passing that cost onto other customers. You also fail to see that capital reserves are also a means of restricting bank lending. They are not just there to cover bad debt.

    Your point introducing middle class into this argument is bollicks. Discuss the issue without politics if you have a point.

    Lastly, gurdgiev is to banking what Ryle nugent is to rugby. Therefore he is not exactly a reliable authority on banking. He is a self serving publicist, nothing more.

    1
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    Mute You Know Who
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    Nov 27th 2013, 8:58 AM

    Lock them dirtbirds up! 600 grand?? Nobody should be able to rack up that type of debt & get away with it!

    71
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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Nov 27th 2013, 8:59 AM

    Sean Dunne

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    Mute DaveMac
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    Nov 27th 2013, 9:09 AM

    Completely agree

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    Mute pat mustard
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    Nov 27th 2013, 10:03 AM

    You would wonder what size of a house these people have to have such a large mortgage debt. I’m sorry but I think it’s a load of bull that some people get their mortgage wrote down while are allowed ‘reasonable’ living expenses, while others are sacrificing absolutely everything in order to try and pay their mortgage over a 30 year period.

    I don’t know the ins and outs of this but can someone please tell me what happens if someone decides to sell their house in the future or passes if on to someone else after receiving just say a 60% write down in their mortgage debt. Do they have to pay back what they got wrote down or are they allowed to keep whatever they sell the house for?

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    Mute nialls
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    Nov 27th 2013, 10:39 AM

    Hang on here. Hasn’t the argument up till now been…..its the banks fault for offering easy money to people. Now it’s the people’s fault for borrowing so much? The last thing we should be doing is turning on each other. Nobody knows the circumstances of this case.

    28
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    Mute Tensing Norgay
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    Nov 27th 2013, 11:10 AM

    True , at a minimum they should be scaling down a lot of these guys think it s beneath them to live in semi while they haven’t a pot to piss in

    14
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    Mute DaveMac
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    Nov 27th 2013, 11:13 AM

    nialls, OF COURSE it the peoples fault for borrowing too much

    Do you not remember the sense of entitlement in the boom? Everyone trying to out do each other? It was entirely the peoples fault.

    21
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    Mute Dusty O'Brien
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    Nov 27th 2013, 12:52 PM

    There is a 20 year clawback so if sold in 20 years, any excess is clawed back against the write down. Same applies for windfalls

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    Mute DaveMac
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    Nov 27th 2013, 9:09 AM

    No way should this family be allowed to keep the family home.

    What to stop me getting a mortgage and not paying it back?

    oh, it’s because I don’t have kids therefore I’m not protected by the Irish constitution

    58
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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Nov 27th 2013, 9:14 AM

    Answer to your second question, nothing go out and try it.
    Answer to the third part of your comment b*llsh*t, all citizens and residents of the state are protected by the Consititution.

    22
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    Mute DaveMac
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    Nov 27th 2013, 9:17 AM

    So you are advocating it then Norman? Are you one of those who is not paying their mortgage back and can get away with it because god forbid if they take the ‘family home’?

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Nov 27th 2013, 10:20 AM

    Advocating nothing Dave, answer to your question.As for your comment about the consititution feel a bit stupid now do you?

    17
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    Mute DaveMac
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    Nov 27th 2013, 10:24 AM

    I don’t feel stupid, I am sure there is a specific mention to the family in the constitution.

    I wonder how stoopid the people in debt feel? very! lol

    15
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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Nov 27th 2013, 10:29 AM

    All people’s of the state are mentioned, maybe you should get a copy and read it.Might stop you appearing like an ill informed idiot.

    25
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    Mute DaveMac
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    Nov 27th 2013, 11:12 AM

    Norman:
    Article 41.1.1° of the Constitution:

    “recognises the Family as the natural primary and fundamental unit group of Society, and as a moral institution possessing inalienable and imprescriptible rights, antecedent and superior to all positive law”

    ..these rights and protections are not extended to every family unit, such as single parents, unmarried opposite-sex co-habiters, and same-sex couples.

    16
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    Mute Sean South
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    Nov 27th 2013, 11:14 AM

    fair play to them id say its time we all started thinking the way the banks do

    11
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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Nov 27th 2013, 11:22 AM

    Dave you are still an idiot, the mention of the “family”in the consititution has nothing got to do with mortgages.
    I’m amazed at your claim that you work in ICT, thought a modicum of intelligence was required.

    17
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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Nov 27th 2013, 11:23 AM

    Btw same sex, single parent families separate issue idiot boy.

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    Mute DaveMac
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    Nov 27th 2013, 12:29 PM

    Good one Normal, now you are just calling me names. Very mature.

    The government have an agenda for protecting family homes as it is written into the constitution.

    Enjoy your red thumbs.

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Nov 27th 2013, 12:46 PM

    Dave do you think I give a toss about red thumbs, you’re the fool who claimed the consititution does not protect you . You’re wrong, but you know what if people are getting debt deals I’m delighted that the thought of it sickens you.
    But sure aren’t you leaving in a few years.Good luck to you no loss.

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    Mute DaveMac
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    Nov 27th 2013, 1:51 PM

    Norman I quoted the constitution above. Instead of getting angry why don’t you counter-argue? instead of embarrassing yourself.

    6
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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Nov 27th 2013, 2:01 PM

    Dave I’m not getting angry, that is just a childish assumption on your behalf.You claim the constitution offers you no protection you’re wrong get over it.

    6
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    Mute john clarke
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    Nov 27th 2013, 11:05 AM

    A mortgage agreement is a contract that is agreed between two parties. Neither side is coerced into the agreement, if they are the agreement is invalid. When any mortgage agreement breaks down a rational person will usually find errors of judgement were made on both sides. On the side of the bank in believing in a person’s ability to repay no matter how circumstances change and on the side of the customer in not figuring out how they could manage in a worst case scenario.

    There can be little doubt but that a person who has lived within their means all their life will be sickened to see a neighbour, fellow worker or friend who lived beyond their reasonably expected means “get away” with a debt write-down. That said there are many genuine cases of people who suffered job loss etc. and having borrowed in good faith simply cannot repay.

    I don’t know the details of the case referred to in the article and we need to remember that each case is different and that the original motives that have led people to an insolvency case are often very diverse. It does however beggar belief, that no matter what circumstances brought them there, that a court could arrive at a solution that would allow a person unable to pay their bills remain in a house luxurious enough to be funded by a 600k mortgage. Surely in the interests of the taxpayer who more or less own the banks who are owed the money, the house should be sold, a more modest loan arranged and the family moved to a property that suits their circumstances.

    ……… and all this with a “socialist” party on office?

    49
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    Mute Dusty O'Brien
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    Nov 27th 2013, 1:09 PM

    It’s not a court issue. A registrar had to sign of on it for constitutional reasons but the courts do not have oversight of it.

    Furthermore, we don’t know the details as you pointed out, that 600k may not be all mortgage related, there are probably personal debts or there could be a buy to let property which may be sold as part of the agreement.

    It could be a modest house – 600k would not have gotten you a mansion in many places at the height of the boom.

    Whilst the PIA should usually aim to keep people in the family home, if it’s felt that they are ‘overhoused’ there may be an insistence that they trade down.

    We won’t really know for a while yet I guess.

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    Mute john clarke
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    Nov 27th 2013, 3:37 PM

    I fully agree that we have not got all of the facts and almost every comment here ( my own included) are based on speculation. The article however states that it is the first such case to involve mortgage debt but it also makes reference to seven creditors so my speculation is that the mortgage likely makes up the biggest part of the debt. Either way the sum of €600k of personal debt is a staggering amount given that it represents almost the lifetime net earnings of a person on the average industrial wage.

    I agree that the property involved might well be modest in size but if, as I assume, that the mortgage makes up the substantial part of the debt then it must be at worst be a modest property very well located and clearly not in an area that this family can now afford to live in. If the debt involves additional buy to let properties it makes the stated aim of the insolvency practitioner “to protect the family home” even worse. Again, without full facts, I assume from these comments that the family home was given as collateral for the borrowings no matter what purpose the borrowed money was used for. If one is prepared to risk the family home against borrowing one must also accept that if you don’t repay your debts then you will lose it.

    The real point of my comment is not on the specifics of this case but is around the issue of moral hazard. If there is no visible sanction for getting oneself into financial turmoil i.e. you go to court and emerge with merely a rap on the knuckles and a debt writedown but with the same car in the same driveway then, why should we all not have a go at it? Is just that most of us are too honest ?

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Nov 27th 2013, 8:30 AM

    Que the idiots relating this to their taxes/mortgage etc.

    44
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    Mute GatheringYourMoney13
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    Nov 27th 2013, 10:45 AM

    Another family stepping into the Irish Government’s “2013 Great Thalidomide-like Insolvency Legislation Experiment”
    God help them.
    If they could have scraped together a few grand or borrowed it from a family member they would be far better off going to the UK and doing it there.
    The Irish system will no doubt leave them scarred for life.

    26
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    Mute Kenneth
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    Nov 27th 2013, 10:54 AM

    No sympathy for personal mistakes, people should realise there are consequences to their behaviour

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    Mute Sean South
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    Nov 27th 2013, 11:11 AM

    he got one over on the banks fair play!

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    Mute GatheringYourMoney13
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    Nov 27th 2013, 12:15 PM

    @ Kenneth.
    Tell that to Pat Neary, Pat Honahan and their government/banking bedfellows.
    Not their victims.

    Where are the consequences for Pat Neary, Pat Honahan and their government/banking bedfellows Kenneth?
    Where?

    16
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    Mute Dusty O'Brien
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    Nov 27th 2013, 12:55 PM

    But they would have lost their house, perhaps they want to keep it?

    7
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    Mute George Martin
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    Nov 27th 2013, 6:05 PM

    Says a lot that what is normal in the western world makes headlines here and causes such angst and consternation from some small minds.

    Welcome to the real world people. Irish banking has finally started to grow up.

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    Mute GatheringYourMoney13
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    Nov 27th 2013, 7:12 PM

    Well said George.
    This country’s governments are a joke.
    We have people still in office who allowed slavery and child rape go unchecked for decades.

    1
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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Nov 27th 2013, 8:47 AM

    The Irish banks have already been recaptilised to deal with impaired mortgage debt, also if the full amount is owing to a bank ie in excess of 65% the bank can refuse the deal.Of bankruptcy is the next option and the bank gets zilch.
    What’s your suggestion keep families and individuals as economic zombies for the rest of their lives?
    No economy can function in such a manner.

    35
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    Mute DaveMac
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    Nov 27th 2013, 9:11 AM

    blah blah de banks de banks

    Yes, keep them as economic zombies, they walked in to a bank and asked for a loan, they gambled, they lost, they should suffer.

    48
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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Nov 27th 2013, 9:17 AM

    How old are you 6?? Blah, blah whats that about? Behave like an adult.

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    Mute DaveMac
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    Nov 27th 2013, 9:19 AM

    Norman, people like you just use the bank situation as an excuse to not pay back your mortgage.

    I am entitled to be tired of hearing debt dodgers feel that they can screw the tax payer over just because the banks got money. Its tired.

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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Nov 27th 2013, 9:31 AM

    How about those who are not “debt dodgers” DaveMac should they be thrown out onto the street as well?

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    Mute Jonny Rigley
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    Nov 27th 2013, 9:34 AM

    @ DaveMac: Maybe the same logic should have applied to the banks in the first place. They gambled (billions) and lost, so they should suffer..

    lolz, who really screws the taxpayer, these “debt dodgers” or the banks?

    34
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    Mute DaveMac
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    Nov 27th 2013, 9:37 AM

    Jonny, another one: ahh de banks de banks

    Put the banks aside for the moment, this is an issue or people refusing to pay their does, whilst at the same time feeling they are entitles to keep their celtic tiger perks such as a house and a car.

    Why should I suffer because a couple next door have a child and therefore dont have to pay their mortgage?

    How are you not seeing the unbeleiveableness of it? are you one of them? probably..

    37
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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Nov 27th 2013, 9:50 AM

    Dave you really should run along to school now, leave the adults alone good boy.

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    Mute DaveMac
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    Nov 27th 2013, 9:53 AM

    Actually I’m at work in ICT, happy days!

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    Mute Jonny Rigley
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    Nov 27th 2013, 9:55 AM

    Dave: How exactly do you suffer because they aren’t able to pay all of their debts?

    And i don’t mean some vague and convoluted logic like: oh the banks will just take it back from the taxpayer and other mortgage holders.. Newflash: They have already taken it off the taxpayer multiple times over.

    So how exactly are you DaveMac directly affected by this? ? ?

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Nov 27th 2013, 9:57 AM

    Dave of course you are,just make sure you mop the gents and dry the floor.

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    Mute DaveMac
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    Nov 27th 2013, 9:59 AM

    Eh, well for one I cannot buy a decent house as they are too expensive because there is no repossessed stock on the market, because people are able to stay in their houses whilst at the same time not paying their mortgages.

    For second, it’s not fair in a capitalist world.

    For third, IF I did get a mortgage, the banks would raise variable interest rates to cover losers who borrowed too much.

    And you talk about convoluted logic? What about baming de banks de banks

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    Mute Jonny Rigley
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    Nov 27th 2013, 10:06 AM

    So the fact that you can’t afford a house is directly because this family wont pay back 100% of their mortgage.. Seriously grow up!

    I’m just going to ask this because at the time of writing you have already racked up 11 out 30 comments on this article.. We have plenty of FG / FF and SF trolls on the journal who just spout out the party line to infinity.
    But, i suspect, you might be the first bank payed trolled to surface here? Go on tell us, which one do you work for?

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    Mute DaveMac
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    Nov 27th 2013, 10:11 AM

    Jonny, actually I am a recent returning emigrant who was not here for the ‘boom’ but somehow I have to help pick up the pieces.

    I have no affiliation with any political party here. In fact I am close to being anti-Irish Republic at this stage, I think we should have stayed in the UK for at least another 50 years. That way we wouldn’t have had FF and the career politicians of this day.

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    Mute Jonny Rigley
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    Nov 27th 2013, 10:33 AM

    So your alternative to rule by the corrupt Irish political machine is simply to replace it with the corrupt British political machine. . .

    Britain has more career politicians than Ireland (mostly because they have a larger parliament) and Ireland would only ever have been a back water to Westminister (as it was when we were ruled by Westminster). Also do you think we should have joined in with Britains various wars over the last century???

    Not exactly sure why i’m trying to debate this out with you but i’m sure your views will go down a treat with the journals commentators!

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    Mute Kenneth
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    Nov 27th 2013, 10:58 AM

    We need the banks we don’t need these people – it’s that simple.

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    Mute Jonny Rigley
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    Nov 27th 2013, 11:04 AM

    We need the banks about as much as a fish needs a bike..

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    Mute Sean South
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    Nov 27th 2013, 11:11 AM

    great to see someone getting one over on the banks

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    Mute Tensing Norgay
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    Nov 27th 2013, 11:17 AM

    I Wonder Dave , are you very young or not very bright , I’m guessing both? Anyway I partially agree with the sentiment in that 600k of debt is huge for a single household , I think the debt needs to be written down because as mentioned, folks in perpetual debt can do nothing fir themselves or the economy but i also think the lifestyle does need to come in line . Not right that profligate spenders remain in trophy houses

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    Mute David Dolan
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    Nov 27th 2013, 12:11 PM

    Dave. Get back to work and stop wasting your employers time talking nonsense on here.

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    Mute DaveMac
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    Nov 27th 2013, 12:32 PM

    David Dolan, good comeback, not.

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    Mute Kenneth
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    Nov 27th 2013, 10:47 AM

    I am not in favour of this people should pay what they owe its their debt, then want to be absolved of debt and keep the house- what planet are these people living on the sense of entitlement is mind blowing

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Nov 27th 2013, 10:52 AM

    Kenneth hopefully you will get the reactions you want, your efforts to date at “trolling”have been abysmal to say the least.

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    Mute Sean South
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    Nov 27th 2013, 11:12 AM

    good on them i say!

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    Mute DaveMac
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    Nov 27th 2013, 11:16 AM

    Agree with you Kenneth, and then they go and blame ‘de banks’!!

    Sense of entitlement is unreal in these fools!

    They will forever be labelled as losers

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    Mute Sean South
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    Nov 27th 2013, 11:19 AM

    eh… think there winners…they were granted court protection you muppet!!

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    Mute DaveMac
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    Nov 27th 2013, 12:31 PM

    they’re

    They will always have the fact that they lost in life and got themselves into debt in the back of their minds.

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    Mute DaveMac
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    Nov 27th 2013, 9:10 AM

    Can everyone stop going on about the banks. That is a separate issue, This issue is about a person not paying back e600k which is an incredible amount of money. I wish a bad life upon them for the rest of their lives.

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    Mute Niall
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    Nov 27th 2013, 9:17 AM

    Dave you sound like a horrible nasty person after that last comment!

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    Mute DaveMac
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    Nov 27th 2013, 9:20 AM

    They shouldn’t have walked in to the bank and asked for a loan.

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    Mute Dusty O'Brien
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    Nov 27th 2013, 9:24 AM

    By that rationale, no one should ever ask for a loan lest they get hit by a bus the following day. Your logic isn’t spectacular really, is it?

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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Nov 27th 2013, 9:30 AM

    Dusty I suspect Dave is still living at home and has very little experience of the decisions adults have to make.

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    Mute Brillo pad
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    Nov 27th 2013, 9:44 AM

    Dave mac, the banks could have said no when asked for the loan. No one was holding a gun to the banks head. I think you will find that it was the bank that made the bad finanical decisions in giving out this loan and many, many other ones.

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    Mute DaveMac
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    Nov 27th 2013, 9:55 AM

    HAHAHA Brillo,

    “No one was holding a gun to the banks head” – are you simple?

    No one was holding a gun to the mortgage-requester’s head.

    You really have no other argument other than the banks kidnapped you at night and brought you to the bank and made you take out a mortgage.

    Why not man up and admit that you gambled and lost? Man up to your debts too any pay.

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    Mute Gillian Foale
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    Nov 27th 2013, 10:15 AM

    Dave loan risk is a two way street. Nobody can just walk into a bank a get a mortgage. That was never the way, you have to apply, meet certain criteria, qualify. For a mortgage to be drawn down it first has to be drawn up. Two party risk, you know? That said €600k is a staggering amount by any standards, but if you are going to say the family shouldn’t have borrowed it well then equally the bank shouldn’t have let them. The people have been asking the question ‘where is our bailout?’ For 5 years now and here it is. I just hope the deals are given to average distressed mortgages also.

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    Mute Brillo pad
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    Nov 27th 2013, 10:21 AM

    Dave mac, no need for insults and putting words in my mouth. The banks took a gamble on loans being repaid and have lost big time, to the tune of €30-60 bn. Amazing how the finanical experts got it that wrong.

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Nov 27th 2013, 10:22 AM

    Dave how are the banks a separate issue, are you serious.

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    Mute Tom Daly
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    Nov 27th 2013, 10:25 AM

    Doesn’t matter any more,there’s great deals to be done !

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    Mute DaveMac
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    Nov 27th 2013, 10:28 AM

    Gillian, at least you understand e600 is a STAGGERING amount to get a loan of. But at the end of the day, they walked into a bank and got a loan, using their free will.

    Why should I support the ‘bailout of the people’?

    What people? The people who felt their sense of entitlement in the boom and thought they deserved a kitchen island, plasma tv’s and two cars? a tip to NY for xmas?

    I am a person in Ireland, wheres my reward for being frugal and not getting into a mess? I actually get punished by rising property prices (due to lack of reposessions) and rising taxes.

    Can you understand my point by the way?

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    Mute Gillian Foale
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    Nov 27th 2013, 10:43 AM

    Yea I can Dave and while nobody can deny people did live beyond any sustainable means we also know that the majority didn’t, to extent of say the family in question here anyway. But whether you, I or anybody else likes it or not these deals have to happen for our recovery to progress, it’s the next step in dissolving the wrong decisions made by banks and their customers.

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    Mute Tom Daly
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    Nov 27th 2013, 11:16 AM

    Well said,Gillian!

    Dave has only shown ignorance and arrogance in abundance !

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    Mute DaveMac
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    Nov 27th 2013, 11:17 AM

    Wrong decisions made my the people. The banks just gave them what they wanted.

    Look, as long as they give up their houses then I will be happy. Its not fair to live in a castle when all you deserve is a council house in Athlone.

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    Mute Gillian Foale
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    Nov 27th 2013, 11:30 AM

    “The banks just gave them what they wanted” even IF that were true do you think that’s the right way for a bank to assess loan applications? Honestly now…

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking!
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    Nov 27th 2013, 1:27 PM

    Anyone who borrowed excessive amounts of money “speculating” on a rising property bubble did so with an expectation that prices would continue to rise. Far too many people did this and and led to our spectacular crash. These people also did it in the full knowledge that prices could also fall, and that circumstances could change, and that there would be severe consequences to that.

    These people gambled there families homes, their future income and there credit futures. They often did so out of pure greed and borrowed massively out of there means…..they fraudulently manipulated there incomes, exaggerated there means and bought properties at ridiculous prices.

    Personal responsibility has to come into play, and they cannot avoid the legitimate consequences….unless sensible people pick up the tab.

    I did not do this and am suffering vastly inflated taxes being used to pay these irresponsible peoples mortgages and allowing them to stay in trophy homes.

    I for one am sick of it and it is disgusting.

    Another category exist of people who were not irresponsible and and are also suffering due to these idiots, and are at risk of losing there modest sensible purchases, any help should be targeted at these people.

    The others should be burdened with massively increased taxes to punish their greed, also loss there home and serve as an example to everyone never to behave in that greedy selfish manner again.

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    Mute Sean South
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    Nov 27th 2013, 11:07 AM

    great to see the man in the street getting something for a change…i hope everyone who bought overinflated houses does the same thing….karma is a bitch!!!

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    Mute John M. Doohan
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    Nov 27th 2013, 10:19 AM

    dave mac…..one sentence to u..wake up and smell the coffee..bet ur sat at home watching porn passing ur day…and u wonder why u cant get a mortgage !!

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    Mute DaveMac
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    Nov 27th 2013, 10:29 AM

    Hey John,

    I have a e60k ICT job in Dublin and have 90k of cash just sitting there in the bank.

    Boom, b*tch.

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    Mute DaveMac
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    Nov 27th 2013, 10:31 AM

    Also got mortgage approval last year but I’m not stupid so I am not going to buy here, I am going to leave here in a couple years and bring up my kids in a welthy country with good weather (not London like you)

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    Mute Tom Daly
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    Nov 27th 2013, 10:41 AM

    Hopefully,they’ll also have a giant size hoover,so they’ll be able to remove that swollen head ,that is so far lodged up your arse,and is resting right next to your cold heart!

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Nov 27th 2013, 10:45 AM

    Dave whinging that you can’t buy a house because of lack of repo’s, now you say you have 60k plus mortgage approval.But your’re not going to buy but leave instead.
    Alot of inconsistencies there Davy boy, no great liss when you do go.

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    Mute Tom Daly
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    Nov 27th 2013, 11:04 AM

    He’s just a spoilt kid ,that actually doesn’t understand the complexities of this whole mess!

    Let him feck off to Cyprus,where they’ll be glad of his €90,000 !

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    Mute Sean South
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    Nov 27th 2013, 11:13 AM

    dont think id like your sort living around me davemac…it would only lower the tone of the neighbourhood

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    Mute DaveMac
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    Nov 27th 2013, 11:19 AM

    Just cos I made my cash from the ground up, went to college, paid my way.. I am entitled to have a big head… Good times ahead ;-)

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    Mute Sean South
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    Nov 27th 2013, 11:20 AM

    for these people definately!

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    Mute Tom Daly
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    Nov 27th 2013, 11:37 AM

    But,you still haven’t a clue!

    What’s would happen if the banks started to repossess all these homes?

    Do you think that you would be the only person that would be bidding on it?

    As you’re so posh,I’d imagine,it would have to be in an upper class area?

    Only having €90,000 deposit and a measly €60,000 wage,you would be struggling to repay on the mansion ,that you so deserve!

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    Mute DaveMac
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    Nov 27th 2013, 12:33 PM

    You think I’m posh because of my avatar, thats cute

    I’d never buy a mansion on my salary. e60k is a great salary for someone recently turned 30 in this day and age.

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    Mute Sean South
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    Nov 27th 2013, 12:54 PM

    hahaha great im 25 and i make double that

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    Mute Tom Daly
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    Nov 27th 2013, 1:11 PM

    I wish you well,Dave,wherever you end up!

    Just remember the saying :” There but for the grace of God ,go I !”

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    Mute DaveMac
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    Nov 27th 2013, 1:53 PM

    @Sean
    Yeah really Sean good for you!

    @Tom
    Thanks Tom, I don’t care what happens to you.

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    Mute Tom Daly
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    Nov 27th 2013, 2:24 PM

    You should,Dave !

    As I’m about to get a huge write-down !

    Karma! Up Yours!

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    Mute DaveMac
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    Nov 27th 2013, 3:19 PM

    Ah-hahahaha Tom, I bet you are!!

    You know you wont, and you’ll be sitting there unemployed in your underpants for years to come shoutin’ and arguin’ on the journal, that’s if your internet is not taken off you ;-)

    Houses 50% down from the peak and just starting to go up, sounds like a good time for me to buy, tonnes of cash on the ready for a 40% deposit, I might buy your house haha ;-)

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    Nov 27th 2013, 4:11 PM

    Don’t wear jocks ,Dave!

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    Mute Kenneth
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    Nov 27th 2013, 11:00 AM

    These people should be named and shamed its our money

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    Mute Sean South
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    Nov 27th 2013, 11:08 AM

    like the people in anglo that left us with 30 billion debt….name and shame the buggers!

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    Mute Dusty O'Brien
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    Nov 27th 2013, 1:13 PM

    They will be published on a public register on the ISI website.

    By the way, if it was for example, an ulster bank mortgage, then it’s not your money unless you’re posting as a uk citizen.

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    Mute Kenneth
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    Nov 27th 2013, 10:57 AM

    So let me get this straight socialising bank debt is bad but personal debt is good- some seriously clueless people in our sixiety

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    Mute John M. Doohan
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    Nov 27th 2013, 2:26 PM

    now is the time to b buying davemac…..ur not really that smart r u ?????…i have 2 properties in dublin if u want to move out of ur mothers anytime haha

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    Mute DaveMac
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    Nov 27th 2013, 5:14 PM

    John I’d bloody well hate to have two properties in Dublin!! That would be a nightmare!!

    Any property prices are sky-high in Dublin right now (unless you are in negative equity wehh weeh), no way would I compromise my awesome quality of life for a lifetime of debt, I’m not that stupid

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    Mute Kenneth
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    Nov 27th 2013, 3:28 PM

    Name these people we have to protect our children from such people

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