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OPPONENTS OF VENEZUELAN President Nicolas Maduro claimed to have mobilized a million demonstrators last night in the biggest rally in decades, vowing weekly mass protests to demand a referendum on ousting him from power.
Police deployed in their hundreds to keep anti-government protesters angry at food and medicine shortages apart from Maduro’s supporters, who vowed to defend his “socialist revolution”.
The rallies raised fears of violence in the oil-rich South American state, where anti-government protests in 2014 led to clashes with police that left 43 people dead.
The leader of the opposition Democratic Unity Roundtable, Jesus Torrealba, told AFP it was the “biggest rally in recent decades” with “between 950,000 and 1.1 million people” taking part.
Demonstrators dressed in white marched in the east of the capital, yelling “Venezuela is hungry” and “This government is going to fall”.
“We either come out to march or we will die of hunger. We are no longer afraid of the government,” said one demonstrator, Ana Gonzalez, 53.
The rallies come at a highly volatile time for Venezuela, where a plunge in prices for oil exports has led to shortages, violent crime and outbreaks of looting.
“This is a historic march. Today begins a definitive stage in this struggle,” Torrealba said.
‘People’ for Maduro
Thousands of Maduro supporters in red T-shirts and caps meanwhile rallied in the central Plaza Bolivar yelling to their leader:
The people are with you.
Maduro estimated his supporters’ turnout at up to 30,000.
“Today we have defeated a coup d’etat,” he told the crowd.
The opposition blames Maduro for the economic crisis and wants a referendum on removing him from power. He has branded the effort a right-wing “coup”.
“We are here at the call of our president, to defend the revolution,” said 37-year-old housewife Carolina Aponte at the pro-government rally.
The authorities arrested three opposition leaders in the days ahead of the march. Senior opposition figure Henrique Capriles said yesterday that two mayors had also been arrested.
Thursday’s marches remained mostly peaceful, finishing in the mid-afternoon, but isolated clashes between demonstrators and security officers did occur, with some violent incidents reported in other cities.
After the protest, state security agents fired tear gas against protesters who tried to block the main highway of the city after a group of masked men threw stones at some officers.
Opposition leaders and human rights organizations also reported outbreaks of violence in Maracay and San Cristobal.
The MUD said in a statement it would hold two further nationwide demonstrations: at electoral offices on 7 September, and a “national mobilization day” on 14 September.
Referendum drive
The referendum’s timing lies at the heart of the battle.
If it takes place before 10 January and Maduro loses, new elections must be held. If he loses in a recall after that date, he would simply hand power to his hand-picked vice president.
Maduro said yesterday he had prepared a decree to strip lawmakers in the National Assembly of their immunity. He accused the opposition speaker of the legislature, Henry Ramos Allup, of inciting violence.
The opposition “cannot be intimidated,” Ramos retorted.
“President Maduro, look at all these people who have poured into the streets of Caracas,” he said.
The polling firm Venebarometro says 64% of the electorate would vote against Maduro. A study by another pollster, Datanalisis, indicated eight out of 10 Venezuelans want a change of government.
Maduro blames the crisis on the collapse of oil prices and an “economic war” by businesses backed by US “imperialism”.
He faces deep public discontent over shortages of basic goods and an inflation rate projected to hit 720% this year.
Analysts have warned of a repeat of the deadly 2014 clashes that left numerous opposition leaders in prison.
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Independant scotland
If you offered it to them they wouldn’t take it.
A major reason they stayed was because of the access they had to the EU. With that removed independence is far more likely to win.
Well then everything would suit the north. Ride along under the Brittish tag and if that goes belly up join up with the republic. Let them set up on their own.
The Scots were subjected to the worst threats from Cameron before that election, and unfortunately they wilted,
Derek I live in the North and Ive always wanted a united Ireland, leaving the EU hasn’t changed my views on ending partition.
Definitely would love a united Ireland – but I think we need to be in a healthier economic situation…you’d have to have something to offer unionists.
Rathlin Island?
Bingo. .. the only way a united ireland will come about.. 32 county ireland will need to build a very strong relationship with britain . Even if we get Nationalist majority it will NEVER come about without that very special relationship …… otherwise it will NEVER come about. ..!!!!
Clowns and now he is history
An-Beal, exactly, they wilted same as we did when the offered us a second referendum after we rejected the first, we got scared by the threats. Say what you want about the English, but they stand up for themselves and dont give it to threats. And for all the big talk from Spain about taking back Gibraltar, The English I’ll kick their arses same as the done with Argentina. We can’t take back the 6 counties by force, majority of Irish men wouldn’t have it in them, just look at some of the comments here, but if our Protestant brothers in the north would join us, we could make this Island a great place.
I think you’re wrong. Almost half the population see themselves as nationalists, myself included and have wanted a united Ireland regardless of Brexit. The other half… even staunch unionists are now queuing up for Irish passports, so it appears that those romantic Unionist or ignorant Loyalist notions are out the door when your economy is at stake and liberties taken away.
Don’t fool yourself applying for an irish passport does not mean wanting to leave the union. Remain was only 55% the bulk of which was from nationalists. United ireland vote would be an dismal failure. We should focus on getting a free travel arrangement between north and south despite the EU. Won’t be easy but there is definitely wriggle room with the good Friday agreement clauses and our unique situation
@tam peters: no the people do not want it this is different there a different place
What happens if The Republic play The North in the finals of the Euros. It’d be like playing with ourselves!
be exactly like that seen from brave heart, when the irish charge and then stop and shake hands
Carpe diem Ireland’s time to shine – http://www.tworoundcorners.com/carpe-diem-irelands-time-shine/
Every cloud possesses not just a silver lining but one cast in EU GOLD; we sit on the edge of one of the world’s largest trading partners, we are in the driving seat to prosperity, and other countries will be thinking the same thing. We cannot allow Ireland to be pinched at the post by the indifferent, begrudgery, cynical, mind that it too often suffers with, turn the tide while lifting this nation to new heights.
Untold prosperity is just there, on the horizon
Carpe Diem
At least we’d win
Well Padraig, what is this untold prosperity? The crock of gold at the end of the rainbow? You see, previous generations and indeed the worlds poor would maintain that we already have it. But people it seems, cannot be satisfied. Keep deluding yourselves, fools.
So you have no understanding of business looking for new headquarters then? No clue that brokers are already at work even before the exit vote. Neil, there is always silver linings in all deals.
Sneaky tug?
and all our dead ancestors would be watching us
Very witty Dave. You must be the local comedian with wit like that.
I may like to see a United Ireland, but if they had referendum and they didn’t wish to join the Republic. Then I’d respect their decision.
I wouldn’t, I’d charge the border with a rake
Would a referendum be held in only the six counties or would it be held in the Republic of Ireland AND the UK as well?
Il go with you jynx but you will have to supply me with a rake.
Well its not really the people of mainland UKs decision to make, if the north want it so be it, if not fine
The vote will only take place in the six counties, it’s part of the Good Friday Agreement..
And would the 26 counties vote to accept them or not ??
A united Ireland with the Republic rejoining the British Commonwealth might be a realistic option while all Ireland along with Scotland remaining in the EU. The knee jerk.idea from Sinn Fein could damage Ireland/UK relations without exploring other options.
Yeap, take it or rake it.
If a vote ever takes place wait and see how quick it takes for Enda to jump into bed with the Unionists.. A FG constituency office will open up on the Shankill Road overnight..
Enda has already ordered a new bowler hat…..
No to the commonwealth. Might as well make Farage Taoiseach if that were to happen.
I have a pike up in done deal, if that is any good to ya!
That’s for dan.
I wish. ..
Its not out place to tell someone from Derry or Belfast that they are not Irish. They have as much right as you and I to be Irish
For Gary
F**K that West Brit thinking. we want to go forward, not backwards.
Chris I’d have no problem with considering the commonwealth if it United this island, however I could never accept that inbred “royal” family as head of a tea party never mind head of a state. John Hume for president after Michael D?
north and south would vote
In all seriousness, why the British commonwealth? What would it do?
Why not just join a united Ireland and give Unionists special laws to convince them that it isn’t a ploy to eat their babies?
Unionists need to understand that, away from the bullshit they’ve been fed, Protestants in the South are treated just like their Catholic neighbours. The problem with Unionism is that they worry that they’ll be treated as badly as they treated us.
John Hume has sime health issues An Beal Bocht but he would have made a fine president otherwise.
Its not crossing any borders is it funky? Id be concerned about my tax liability . . .
James that used to be the case with NI unionists but these days it is like everywhere else a matter of economic stability. Northern Protestants and Catholics are no different when it comes to feeding their families, educating their children or looking for medical services. The question is which state provides the best services and what future is there for the children. It would be wrong in my view to suggest that the Irish republic within an EU framework is best for everyone on this island without having close economic ties to our UK neighbour.
No. A united Ireland with the guarantee that people from the current northern six counties have the right -should they so desire – to recognise QEII as their head is the compromise position. There is absolutely no reason/political will at all for people in the ROI to join a commonwealth. The compromising has to be done between the citizens of the territory currently known as Northern Ireland.
The other issue, of course, is that the English are very fed up of forking out 12 billion a year for the North. English nationalism could drive them and Scotland away.
Fact of the matter Daisy is that if you want a United Ireland that badly you will just have to put up with some unpalatable decisions as a result. Do you really think that a million Unionists would just quietly accept a United Ireland without some sort of major change down here as well, such as rejoining the Commonwealth, dual citizenship, new national anthem, new All Ireland Police Force etc. I hope it does happen someday, but a lot of people down here have to realise that it will also involve massive change on our behalf as well.
I don’t want a United Ireland all that badly, tbh. It’s a basket case moneypit that we can’t afford.
One referendum would occur on the same day in both entities (Section ii of Article one of the GFA). If both vote for unification, then it happens.
In USD, budget deficit per capita is approx 7,500 in NI and 1,250 in Ireland. And we are broke. It would be a disaster. Only once they have something approaching an economy up there should we even consider it.
James. …in general unionists population have much more stronger bond with britain than Nationalist population have with the rest of Ireland… the only way united ireland will come about is if rest of ireland build a stronger relationship with britain or we can all just forget about it … i know these people inside out I grew up with these people. .. i have seen how they are warming to 26 county state in recent years ….
you think i’m made of rakes Dan?
I can get a boat load of rakes from Germany if anyone’s up for it.
As I understand it we have already accepted it conceptually as a part of the Good Friday Agreement. It’s up to the people of the six counties.
@Ziggy722: Why would there be a referendum in the UK ?. As the article suggested there would be 2different referendums, one in the North and another in the South.
It’s possible that the Brexit will achieve what years of bloody fighting never did. A united Ireland. Also very possible that it might spell the end of the United Kingdom.
A United Ireland would be a prosperous Ireland.
United Kingdom of Ireland & Scotland
*United States
I could work with that
Ireland is a republic, not a kingdom.
No King Kenny?
Hopefully not. Northern Ireland is an economic basket case and we have enough problems as it is.
Only in liverpool!!!
Yep its that simple, the Unionists are just dying to join us. How are people so naive? Why would any Unionist stand under our Tri-Color. Unfortunately it will just lead to a reversal of the previous situation. Unionists feeling like a minority on a Republican island. If you want a United Ireland alot would need to change, you would have to respect their tradition. Would our flags change, our anthem? Hard line Unionists would rather fight than join Ireland, have a look at any NI debating programme (all on youtube) to see how much they differ. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGoLr-3XcRM
A United Ireland will most likely never happen. I see a Northern Ireland state being created, which may eventually in 100 years unite. It’s exactly why Rory McIllroy isn’t going to Rio, Northern Irish first, British second and Irish third. And he’s Catholic, exactly the type of person you would think would vote to unite. That is not the case.
From the Irish Times: “The 2011 Northern Ireland census showed 48 per cent (864,000) of Northern Ireland’s 1.8 million population originated from Protestant households while those from Catholic households accounted for 45 per cent (810,000). However, the census demonstrated only one in four of the overall Northern Ireland population saw themselves as exclusively Irish.
This contrasted with 40 per cent who viewed themselves as solely British and 21 per cent who considered themselves as Northern Irish only. In recent years, polls held separately by the BBC and the Belfast Telegraph showed fewer than one in five people in the North would vote now for unity.
Those findings were reinforced in the poll presented on RTÉ’s Prime Time and on Nolan Live on BBC Northern Ireland last Wednesday night.
The survey of more than 2,000 people found 13 per cent of Northern Ireland people favoured unity, with the figure at 36 per cent in the South.”
Northern Ireland may well be an economic basket case without UK susidies, but it could become an even bigger basket case within the Republic. I was in Belfast a couple of weeks ago and it looks much more vibrant than does Dublin at the moment.
unless Ireland becomes more equal in terms of potential conflicts (churches controlling schools and hospitals, mandatory Irish and religion, biased history in primary and secondary) we are not ready for unifications. a large number of nationalists would only accept an Irish-only United Ireland, and this would be untenable. make Ireland’s a secular, culturally open society and then it had a chance, but a unification now would just be a regressive, religious state with only extreme left and right sharing power.
No thanks.
Robert, well said, Unity for the Gaelic people’s.
Ya but Tommy has expressed intrested in becoming King of the Gaels
@ Nialls, if anthem and flag needs changed, so be it, small price to pay for unity.
This is not true. A united Ireland’s would mean every man woman and child would be significantly much better off, economically, in real terms. And this would grow year on year. Read in some Harvard study recently. Will paste link when I find it.
Only at An field.
They live in a bubble in Northern Ireland and depend on West Minister for their bubble lifestyle. There on a good thing and know that. I’ve worked their for last five years and they don’t see beyond the North….it’s like a bubble go used on local issue and local concerns…
I’d love to see a Gaelic Republic of Éire & Alba. Obviously we’d still have to speak the ‘Devil’s Tongue, but only for business and travel. English isn’t our language; we must revive Gaelic and its beautiful culture.
No, we can barely keep afloat what we have..
I’d take a few years of struggle for a united Ireland ten times out of ten
Unless you’re Northern Irish citizen, it’s not an issue for us to have a say on.
We vote in the South as well as the North.
Oracle, we have a say just as much as the North does. Remember we removed our claim to the 6 counties from our constitution as part of the peace process?
Inevitably a United Ireland would likely see the dissolution of the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland and would see a new political entity with a new constitution and political structure created. A vote in the Republic would be mandatory.
Jason, we only get a say if the north votes for a united Ireland, if they vote no then there is no vote in the south. So our say is conditional.
Agreed Jason. Separate polls in both constituencies would have to be run for it to become a reality. I don’t think that is what Sinn Fein has in mind.
ireland is already united, all 26 counties and thats perfect :)
w
You’re right Tommy. I don’t think people realise just how much money the uk pump into northern Ireland each year just to keep things running. If we took over the 6 counties we’d be sunk within 6 months. Total crash
Tommy aka dane. There are 32 counties in Ireland. Now back to your driving school.
i do laugh at the shinners who think we need to give them a reason as to why we want nothing to do with the north :D
You plonker
Yes, but in reality the cost of a united would cripple the country.
*united Ireland
Tommy maybe someday you should get enda to read the ins and outs of the good Friday agreement to you. Do catch up.
ah sure its never happening anyways, will SF ever recover from losing that vote by a landslide in the north if it ever happened :D
i do laugh at nordies who think they decide if they can join our republic :D
Not sure why you are claiming it as ‘your’ republic Tommy, you are a treacherous piece of vermin that has done nothing to deserve ‘ownership’ of Eire…
Ron, if Germany had the likes of you then they would never be unified now, would they, Every proud loyal Irish person should want the unification of their country, and please no one come back with crap about ” it was never unified”, it was but due to treachery it never held, you’ll see similar treacherous individuals make comments on this site. The proud British people have voted to leave the EU, I would not like to see Britain itself breakup, but I would love to see our country united. Our Protestant brothers need not fear the RC church anymore, the south have shaken off the chains, it’s now time all Irish men united and made our country and people strong.
but its just perfect the way it is, our republic is perfect, im for keeping it that way :)
Not yours tommy, you have done nothing to deserve that claim except have the luck of being spawned here by whatever vermin you come from…
@Oracle. If If IF IF Northern Ireland had a vote and If they voted for a united Ireland. I would expected to have a vote in the the republic on weather we wanted them to join the republic. To be honest I don’t know which way I would vote. The nationalist in me would say vote yes. But the Practical side of me would be saying hole on here a second.
*hold
Cork now calling for an independence referendum for itself.
@Tommy, I’m sure yer little room with your teddies and dollies is perfect, our 32 countie country won’t upset that.
@ tommy, I’m sure yer great grand pa said those same words in 1921, “ah sure it’ll never happen”
Calm down there Conri, don’t be getting all worked up chap.
@Tommy, yer mammy and daddy are out in support, get all yer teddies and dollies to vote now and get more than 2 red thumbs on my comments
together will make us economically stronger
Eegit
Eegit. West Brit ya
Sorry there is no such hing you muppet as a Northern Ireland citizen. It’s either British citizen or Irish citizen. Northern Ireland is NOT a country, it is a region of the U.K.
€36bn we would do much better together!
http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/united-irish-economy-could-deliver-boost-of-36bn-388959.html
Ireland unfree will never be at peace
The vote was clear. The North voted to stay in Europe. UK is out and we are in! The ball is in their court now. However the Northern vote was seriously divide along sectarian lines. The loyalists still think that the UK supports them, however the united in UK is gone. Scotland voted to stay in and England and wales voted out. Interesting to see how the money from English and Welsh taxpayers flows into the North now. Loyalist are set for a serious brain squeeze. If their benefits start reducing……..interesting times ahead.
You could have the entire Loyalist community living on the streets and they’d still vote to remain in Britain such is their extreme parochialism. They’d burn the place before they’d vote to be in a United Ireland.
So you think joining the Republic of Ireland and destroying all their public services is the better option?
People keep saying rubbish like that – as if when transition happens there is no PERIOD of transition.
In the event of any potential successful democratic vote on a 32 county Ireland there would be transition. Our economy is not so pathetic that as a 32 county unit we would fall into the dark ages.
And if NI were to come back “into the fold” then it’s in the EU while Britain leaves. All those companies who were looking at Ireland’s corp tax and weighing up the pros and cons of stg v euro might just be happy enough to suddenly be based in the EU.
Seriously – make an effort to think further than the immediate question…
as long Dublin is still capital
Belfast could take over
Take turns, why not have a rotating capital..one condition though – the langers have no say ;)
Not sure about a rotating capital. At the end of the day it’s a small country united or not – the best compromise would be to keep the Dáil in Dublin and move Seaned to Belfast.
Build a new capitol somewhere in the midlands. A fresh start for everyone with no historical hangovers.
Excellent compromise Cillian.
People might finally know where Laois is then
Hahaha Belfast as capital…give over! That made me chuckle
Laois for the capial ! All over that ! Tourists can come over to vist the jails !!!!
Dundalk as new official nominal capital! They are on for a three in a row in the soccer after all!
People are forever getting lost there – Dundalk would have to improve the signposting if so.
Fiona, I am told by reliable sources that there are areas within Dundalk that even the Garda won’t go safely.
Somewhere around Slane on the banks of the Boyne :-)
Create a new town in the centre of the population areas (remember, Ireland is not just Dublin and Belfast and the compromise is not just unionist and nationalists). I’d propose building an entirely new town near Kells, Portlaoise or Galway, and construct direct motorways to Belfast, Dublin and Cork.
How many Tesco vouchers will we have to save up to build this new town with motorways?
We have the closest thing to full peace we’ve ever had in the north, but it is a very fragile peace. A vote on a united Ireland will only add fuel to a fire which the vast majority of people on this island want to see simmer out. The well being of all adults and children on this island has to take priority over any romantic notions of a united Ireland at this point in time. Maybe some day we’ll be in the right place to achieve a united country but I don’t think we are there just yet.
Well said.
SF talking about a united ireland but very busy collecting the queens shilling as they administer british rule in that part of the UK
Don’t you think Brian that people living in Northen Ireland are capable of making their own minds up without the interferance from a neighbouring country. They have voted to Remain in the EU and they alone can decide what the future holds.
Don’t really mind as long as it remains a peaceful Ireland
And it wouldn’t , no matter how much you want that to be the case , don’t underestimate the bigotry and lunacy of THAT fraction of people in the North.
You will always have some sort or hatred in every society people are people but I was referring to the organized troubles that caused the lose of so many lives
Yes of course.
It’s an inevitability now.
Deep down, yes of course!
My heart says yes, but to be honest I don’t know. Could we afford the huge financial burden of taking them on? Aren’t a huge percentage of NI citizens employed by the State?
True, but the only economic study on the topic has shown that the total all-Ireland GDP could rise by as much as $30b over the first 8 years of reunification. The doubling up of services on the island costs the entire island a fortune compared to a centralised water, power, transport, police, government and military infrastructure.
Barabara, the north gets subsodised by the uk to the tune of around 11bn. However the six counties send back around 5bn in revenue and taxes in the other direction. So the real subsidy is in/around 5bn. If you think that 5bn isn’t affordable, then consider that in 2011, FG foisted on the Irish people a debt of €300bn. They got re-elected. So don’t be fooled into thinking that we cannot afford our own country’s full independence. If 300bn is affordable, then so is 5bn.
simply double the USC for everyone and that should cover most of it. Add in about a 25% cut to child benefit and we would have enough cash to do it.
All you have to do now is persuade the unionists in the North to go for it, and then the majority of the Republic to pay for it and it can be done.
Yes you are correct Barbara, NI has a huge percentage of their citizens employed by the UK. We definitely would not want to have more public servants on our books. definitely no
who is this ‘we’ you refer to shinnerbot?
Northern island is a failed statelet as shown by the extent of the current subvention, a United island would power ahead economically and marry the best of Europe and Britain for opportunities, not to mention our special relationship with the US
The majority within Northern Ireland voted to remain in the EU, but it’s first minister wants it to leave along with England and Wales. Clearly there is a problem here particulary as the Scottish first minister was quick to state Scotlands remain mandate is to remain within the EU and look for another Independence referendum. So where does this leave the Northern Ireland leadership. Surely the honourable thing to do would be to agree to a Northern Ireland referendum to decide the country’s future loyalties to remain or leave the UK.
The whole 32 counties will pay for the 32 counties. It’s that simple.
€36bn ! We could handle that!
http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/united-irish-economy-could-deliver-boost-of-36bn-388959.html
€36bn would cover the of a measly 5 a year!
http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/united-irish-economy-could-deliver-boost-of-36bn-388959.html
No. NI costs the UK £1,000,000,000 (a billion) every MONTH – and we couldn’t afford it, with a National Debt of over €200 billion!!!
No, it doesn’t.
Shinners will say that – but Google is their friend, too…
So the 9-12 billion subsidy that London sends too NI and the 3.1 billion it receives in structural EU grants are because it is a prosperous, province with a massive budget surplus and streets paved with gold
Pure shite Ger. As an independent and the only English speaking country now in the EU, foreign direct investment would be pumped into here as well as the EU money, which already keeps north going, would be back. The EU will now try hurt UK though not openly I would imagine but they will try make example to any other would be exiters, for want of better word.
It’s all about you Get.
There is an annual subsidy of around 11bn. That figure doesn’t take into account the over 5bn that the north pays in the other direction. So in reality, the subsidy is more in the region of 5bn. Not affordable? Well FG in 2011 foisted hpon the Irish people a devt of €300bn. They got re-elected. So dont dare any partitionist free state toerag tell me that €5bn for Irish Independence isn’t affordable.
The NET cost to the UK Exchequer – for NI – is £1 billion, a month. Is Google beyond you?
Ger at the height of the trubles the north was costing the uk 1 million a week. Not sure where you got that figure from…..inflation??
Ireland is independent shinnerbot, will you be able to see the border from your house :D
Og – the figures are easily verified, on google, if you are capable. If we took on NI, there’d be a party in every UK town..
Ger the 1bn a momth figure is a rough estimate on the 11bn annual subsidy. A figure which takes zero account of the money goin in the other direction. Why? Because that figure is not released too often by the treasury, strangely enough. So the net argument is totally bogus. The last time the figure going the other way was in 2011/12 and it was around 5bn. So the 11bn could be around about halved to in/around 5bn. Ehich is peanits compared to the 300bn debt that FG put on the backs of the Irish people in 2011. And they were re-elected. So stop using totally bogus economic arguments to justify your free stater partitionism.
so it will only cost us 5bn a year for something we dont want shinnerbot :D
Why lie? Google the UK Exchequer figures. The NET cost of NI, to the UK, is £1 billion a month. FACT, or is googling difficult for shinners?
Tommy aka Dane. Who are we?
i dont think the shinners get it, its not only about money, we simply dont want anything to do with you lot :)
No tommy. And they’re still unable to comprehend figures – and, like Tir, make them up as they go along.
26+0= perfect :)
Tommy aka Dane. How did you ever get a driving school, when you cannot even do basic maths.
what driving school? whos dane? what are you rambling about shinnerbot?
how soon before the border goes back up? :D
@ger… Is reading beyond you??
Nearly a billion per county per year to run? Plus marching season crap every year? Nah, you’re grand, thanks.
€36bn would easily cover the cost!
http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/united-irish-economy-could-deliver-boost-of-36bn-388959.html
Then bring back the real Irish flag!
The blue with the gold harp!!
Yes please. And get rid of that anthem too.
(Keep the tune. Fix the words)
The tune is the worst part!
A Nation Once Again should be the Anthem.
Of course
Now Scotland will vote “out” and possibly NI. Financial centre in London will definitely take the heat if EU will produce some different rules. UK will become small England in the age of globalization and “third nations” rising.
Can’t we just give Norn Iron to Scotland? Unlike the UK, we don’t have 12 billion a year to waste on 6 counties.
Belfast will bring tourists there for actually giving Ireland more money into the economy
Aside from the ridiculous costs we can’t afford , we’d have to inherit their stupid childish politics like whether or not a playground should be named after a terrorist or cancelling political meetings because someone put the wrong miniature flag on the table or the waves of bomb threats and violence from that fraction of Unionists who would never accept it under any circumstances whatsoever. No thanks
http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/united-irish-economy-could-deliver-boost-of-36bn-388959.html
They only in depth study available into economical results of unification.
Childish politics? Have you ever listened to Enda Kenny in the Dail? Just one example: A month before the the recent furore about the CRS pensions scandal even hit the headlines, Gerry Adams was in the Dáil asking Kenny about the issue of top-ups for senior execs in state agencies. He pressed for an enquiry stating that “citizens want to know what’s happening within our health services” and “to the money they give to charity”. Kenny’s answer?… “If you want to have a debate about the past you can start by clarifying for everybody in this country whether or not you were a member of the IRA. Nobody believes you, nobody believes you.” End of answer. How’s that for a Head of Government to behave when faced with questions about an impending major public issue? “Childish politics”? Such sanctimonious tripe.
But Jorry won’t admit his IRA involvement – why not? His best mate, McGuiness had no choice!
And Ger comes along to prove my point nicely. Childish politics.
Yes childish politics , and giving me one or two examples of Enda Kenny being a knob doesn’t entice me to accept the nonsense that would come from having to deal with Northern Ireland. You can keep your stubborn bias childish politics. I used to be all for an United Ireland but seeing a bunch of what looked like 7 year old children dressed as IRA members walking in a parade sort of put me off. The most politically backward area in all of Europe. This is without getting into the billions it takes just to take it on in the first place. We’d sink our economy.
As opposed to the grown-up politics in the Dail.
@simon. A united Ireland would likely cost in/around 5bn. Don’t tell me that isn’t affordable when the people of the 26 counties re-elected a FG government that foisted on the people a 300bn debt. Your own argument, ironically, is perhaps tbe most childish one posted here.
nordies are not mature enough to even consider it , when they grow up a little they might be treated as adults…
To be fair, that was pure whataboutery from Enda. A total dodge.
However, this is also whataboutery from Tír Eoghain Gael. The point remains that we would heap childishness on top of childishness, which is a worsening of things.
@Declan My point is that you will get childish politics everywhere. But it’s worth remembering that the politicians in the six counties, whatever your view, have delivered one of the world most successful post-conflict peace processes. That is too easily forgotten about.
An independent NI is only the realistic way forward. They’ll find it hard as its such a small country. Though a United Ireland vote will only see a return to The Troubles!
An independent Ireland is the only way. Partition is a cancer.
You’ve got to stop living in the past. There’s a lot of people in NI who don’t consider themselves Irish or British. It’s its own country now. Independence is the way forward.
Totally agree.
Northern Ireland should be a single entity. It’s gone past the point of becoming part of the republic, it has its own system, laws, currency, way of life! They have come too far and should be their own country. If they want to stay part of the U.K. That’s great, but my heart says they are independent of the Republic of Ireland and should not be forced to join us.
Independence for the North simply isn’t feasible. The North has almost the same amount of public sector workers as the Republic does with a 3rd of the population and we’re struggling to afford that as it is.
In order for the North to survive as an independent nation it would need a complete economic restructuring as well as a program to re-skill half of the workforce. That won’t happen any time in the next 30 years.
Cop yourself on Mark/Lily. I live in the six counties. It is culturally, historically and intrinsically Irish. How dare you attempt to tell me I am not Irish. Partitionist toerags.
What would be the point of an independent Northern Ireland. It’s all or nothing.
You’re wrong. It is still a huge Irish/British diide
Oh God no, would vote a definite NO. I agree that the best way forward for NI is an independent country. Sorry but it would be detrimental for us to take on NI. Funny talking to my work mates this morning and not one would be in favour. They should follow Scotland and go as an independent country.
Shut up Tir Eoghain Gael, this isn’t just about you. I said lots of people in the North consider themselves Northern Irish. Lot’s also consider themselves British. So, the only fair way forward would be for Northern Ireland to become independent. Yes, this would cause a lot of economic volatility but 30 years of restructuring is better than another 30 years of civil war.
Tommy aka Dane he is more Irish than you will ever be.
i know nobody who wants anything to do with the north. stay british or go independent the choice is your nordies :D
@tommy @mark… You keep saying that an independent six counties is “the only way forward”. Do either of you have the feintest clue about economics? Do you have the slightest notion about just how ludicrous that sugggestion is? Even a unionist with half a brain cell knows that is an utterly stupid idea. That a region with total dependence on public sector could run itself? Seriously? Stop saying its the only option. It is not an option. It is an economic impossibility. Just for a second try to explain how it could work ffs! P.s. These six counties are cutlurally Irish. Our culture was Irish before partition. That hasn’t just vanished.
Tír, don’t forget the fact that every independence party ever created in Northern Ireland has failed spectacularly to gain public support. There appears to be no political will in the North for independence.
Mark pitches it as the ‘only fair way forward’ but it’s obvious that it’s an unpopular move even before we address the fact that it’s economically unfeasible. Of all the options, Northern Ireland appears to reject independence thoroughly.
tyrone i think you are operating on the basis that people have concern for northern ireland, thats where you appear to be going wrong. no one cares, choice is simple stay brits or go it alone, its none of our concern what ye lot do in fairness :)
You are Irish, but I meet many young people who post this Good Friday think that they are Northern Irish….what a made up piece of muck…..just likes Ulster Scots by the Unionist….they are fantasists who since Carson have made up a crock culture hat hangs no the Union Jack. Ironically England doesn’t want Northern Ireland and the Unionists know that. Poor ejits.
Go away with Northern Irish is made up only last fifteen years by fools to fool and brainwash Irish people in North into believing that they are not Irish
@Tommy
You don’t speak for me nor many a other Irish whom would love to see a United Ireland in their lifetime. In fact the poll results on this article speak louder than anything I can say.
So with that, go F yourself.
No way , a million angry prods would be nearly as bad as a million angry Muslims
Clown
lol , sorry but I don’t want a large group of people that would vote against this being pulled into the republic just because they were outbred by another group. Anyway plenty of catholics will vote to stay in the UK as long as they are being supported by Britain so it wont happen
Yes. Why not?
I don’t know.
That’s down to the self determination of the people involved. It is very much not for me to say.
The newer article 3:
“It is the firm will of the Irish Nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the people who share the territory of the island of Ireland, in all the diversity of their identities and traditions, recognising that a united Ireland shall be brought about only by peaceful means with the consent of a majority of the people, democratically expressed, in both jurisdictions in the island. Until then, the laws enacted by the Parliament established by this Constitution shall have the like area and extent of application as the laws enacted by the Parliament[2] that existed immediately before the coming into operation of this Constitution.”
… consent of a majority of the people, democratically expressed, in both jurisdictions …
So there’s two jurisdictions that have to agree.
Absolutely, still very much not for me to say.
Down to the self determination of the people involved.
If the Irish Government don’t grap this opportunity to gain control over the whole of Ireland, they are as stupid as I think.
Prove me wrong.!!!
What would be stupid would be to disturb the current peace in the North just for the sake of re-unification. What would it actually mean? People are 100% free to move across the border as they please.
I’d actually rather the Republic join the UK to be honest.
Then move there, problem solved.
I am, in January! Moving to Birmingham
Problem solved? What problem are you talking about?
Looks like we would be ruled by Boris Johnson then. What a nightmare.
Ruled by the pig that Cameron sh@gged is it? God help us all.
Dear god no, our society is stable and peaceful. Let’s keep it that way.
Is your name ironic then I guess??
The national majority on the island of Ireland would favour unity. It is their land and not for any other nation to interfere in. Would Britain like it if the eu partitioned areas of England that had more voters for remain despite the nationwide census being to leave? Further to that, it doesn’t matter if there is a minority in the north in favour of unity given that the land was stolen from Ireland and that Catholics faced years of oppression and now currently still do not have complete equality, still have internment and have to live in a sectarian state. Why should that be acceptable for a foreign country to create in Irish land? A united Ireland with respect for British tradition and identity is the best way forward to end the apartheid style state, to have full equality, to have land returned to the rightful nation etc. However this is not going to happen at the moment because the unionist mindset is based largely upon a dislike of Catholics and they’d not accept being ruled in a majority catholic Ireland. Despite the fact the unionists are the ones who oppressed Catholics and Republicanism has always been progressive. I’m English but as one can see I favour Irish unity because if another country stole my land and treated me unfairly I would not care if a majority from a planter community wanted to stay ruled by said thriving nation. I believe I would have the right to get my country back and to be treated fairly once.more. the trouble is that unionism is largely based on bigotry and is non negotiable. Republicanism does have bigoted factions too. But true Republicanism does not care for religion. That is why republican ‘fighters’ have had protestants involved with them in the past. I know someone is dying to say about the kings mill massacre which was a dreadful attack. However the reason it was done to the protestants only was because it was a carbon copy revenge attack – a mindless thing to do and abhorrent.
Really 60% want a united Ireland? Considering we dont want to pay for bins and water etc. How much extra tax would Republic citizens be willing to pay to make it happen. The North only functions with British tax payers support
asking them to pay for the nordie layabouts would be another thing entirely :D
Nope. Northern Ireland’s woes are their problem.
And Britain’s, and Ireland’s.
If the cause of Irish Unity has being strengthened by the Brexit Vote, why have Sinn Féin being asking us to vote Remain? Surely a united Ireland is the ultimate objective here? Will also explain the very low turnout in Nationalist areas, less than 50% in West Belfast
A party can’t really campaign for a leave vote and then call for a vote to unify with a country still in the EU because of the negative effects of a leave vote…
Support Sinn Fein or not, they are not fools. An exit is financial suicide for the North. That is why SF asked for a remain
I think because they actually saw the bigger picture at hand and understood that stability is more important then a slight glimmer of hope for a United Ireland, don’t like SF, but I commend them on their Brexit position.
Simon. What party in the north campaigned for a leave vote. Just to be clear.
let them have all the votes they want in that part of the UK, changes absolutely nothing in this great republic :)
http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2016/05/16/daily-note-a-nation-once-again-dont-write-it-off
Read and weep. Prophetic I think be best description lads
Wouldn’t it be gas all the same if Norn Iron voted to join us and then we voted not to accept them? Could happen!!!!!
I would like to see an United Ireland but the IRA please note it is NOT WORTH OBE DROP OF BLOOD. United yes but by peaceful means.
@ Seamus, well said, we now need Enda as leader of FG to agree, if Spain vote to leave the EU we don’t want to see FG blue shits over slaughtering Spanish women and children.
This is by peaceful means! This is the most peaceful period of northern Irish history and the opportunity for referendum has just landed conveniently on our laps. Referendum is a peaceful way, and we didn’t even have to look for a reason! The UK has forced it on them! The unionists would be foolish to believe that the English will continue to fund them during this time of impending economic collapse!
Nah, they can all stay up there thanks.
Nope, let the Nordies keep their cabbage patch.
Won’t happen with dangerous people like Jim Allister around. I think us in the republic need to ask for a united Ireland are you prepared to give up our flag, capital etc for a united Ireland. We would need a new capital built as no way will unionists sit in the Dail….the whole system will have to change.
As much as United Ireland might be the romantic dream of a lot of people, the Republic of Ireland could not afford to take on the other counties we simply don’t have the money, if Northern Ireland choose to leave Britain they could possibly stand as an independent nation but that’s just my opinion and only the people of the north know what’s best for them.
So you think the six counties is strong enough to exist as an indepemdent state? An economy reliant on the piblic service? On what planet do you live? An end to partition and Irish reunification is the best thing we can do. And don’t tell me the around 5bn that this would cost isnt affordable. FG foisted a 300bn debt on the people in 2011 and the people re-elected them.
We are in a poor enough state, so taking on the layabouts in the north would be a definite No No. Separate country let them stand whatever way they can, like we do. Don’t feel any affiliation with Northern Ireland, Separate country and people. let them be. If they want to move to the Republic, drive down over the border.
we have nothing in common with the north so why would us irish people even considering accepting you lot into our great republic?
Tommy aka Dane who is this “we” you refer to?
who is this dane you refer to shinnerbot?
Tommy aka Dane. Have a look in a mirror. Blueshirt.
cheers for the compliment :)
Tommy aka Dane. So glad you agree with me.
Tir Eoghain Gael, if you can’t exist without suckling at the Great British Teat, why should the Republic with 300bn of debt already on its shoulders take on a basket case, money pit like the 6 counties. Grow up politically and emotionally and sort yourselves out. Stop looking for others to give you stuff just to keep you quiet.
44% of the north voted leave, thats a pretty strong unionist turnout presumably. I’d love a united Ireland, but is it worth the risk of ‘troubles’
For the people that want a united Ireland, I assume you have no issues with another recession, no money for public spending, and not being able to pay back out national debt. Northern Ireland costs the UK £11 Billion a year, thought but we cant afford it.
€36bn wouldn’t cover the cost?
http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/united-irish-economy-could-deliver-boost-of-36bn-388959.html
If you really ask people what they want, they just want to live in freedom without inference have a job,home,family quality of life. We should not be working towards Independence we should be working towards togetherness we are all so intertwine these days having boards etc… is only their to protect trade blocks, taxes etc.. If these were not here a lot of ordinary people and smaller business would do better, we might not have much credit / cash but our debts would be lower and more countries be allowed to prosper, instead of been kept poor for cheap labor and resources.
I think re-partition (West of the Bann) would be more of a realist option. just look at the latest voting map for NI.
One United football team to represent this Island would be good, but not a United Ireland. We can’t afford it, and it would be more trouble than it’s worth.
€36bn should cover the cost!
http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/united-irish-economy-could-deliver-boost-of-36bn-388959.html
Where in the name of God will we get the money oh yes the PAYE CROWD WILL PAY
United States of Ireland, Scotland and Wales has a ring to it.
Wales wants to stay with England.
I’d like to, but just the small minded bigotry (both sides) we’ve really no need for it, the bigotry that is,love to see a United Ireland but can’t see them paying €60 to see a doctor
Articles 2 and 3 have been removed. Don’t forget Sinn Feins agenda. They want a United Ireland at any cost and it’s us that will pay the price
My Prediction for three to five years down the road: rump UK of England and Wales outside EU. New confederation of independent states of Northern Ireland; Scotland, and the Republic of Ireland all in the EU thus removing the problem of the 26/6 country land and sea boundaries, which are otherwise unpoliceable. Special travel arrangements for NI not required either. EU tariffs for UK beef will be 70%, as they are now for any third country exporting to the EU. EU tariffs won’t exist for Irish, Northern Irish, or Scottish beef who will take over the UK’s current EU beef market.
Tir, please Google this. NI’s annual running costs are £20 billion. Tax from NI is £9 billion – so the net cost to the UK is £11 billion. Do you dispute this?
Sf are playing with two footballs.
Only an idiot would reject this offer. A fully functioning economy being offered to us on the back of yet another poor decision made by the people of the UK who don’t seem to be connected with the people of Scotland let alone NI!
An economy that depends on Sterling to survive, an Economy filled with Public sector workers, No thanks we better off on our own.
Give the existing statlet of 6 counties another 3 – the full Ulster.
Make federal local parliments in the 3 other provinces as well.
An all Ireland (Or Ireland and Scotland) assembly in the geographic middle of Ireland
Well Keith, I was in Ulster this week and I never left the ROI. There are 9 counties in Ulster, 3 having been reclaimed.
Today I see one English misleading headline reads ‘Brits Out of Europe”. Ireland is in Europe so will they now leave?
Obviously Scotland are likely to vote for independence now, but Northern Ireland is an extremely difficult issue. A simple 51:49 majority would not work. There would have to be a consensus among the Unionists community to agree to a reunification of Ireland. Is it possible to make the Unionists comfortable with the concept of reunified Ireland? Not sure if it is.
And also Is there an open invitation from the Republic to NI to become part of a united Ireland, Don’t think there is…
As soon as Scotland leaves Britain will dump the unionists of NI to save themselves as they will no longer hold any loyalty to the cousins of the Scots! They will be forced into independence which they cannot afford. They will find themselves without funding for dole, hospitals, public wages… What choice will they have?!
I would like to see a peaceful united Ireland but unfortunately I cannot see this happening just yet
#Éive32 has been building up a nice momentum..
For our sake I hope not, They can stay up there
Enough is enough, ulster has been a part of the uk long enough. It’s time Ireland reclaimed the land that is rightfully ours and unite ireland properly for the 1st time in centuries.
actually Ireland was united for centuries until 1922., been divided since
Who would pay for this daft idea? The poor of the south?
Our day has come and it has been gifted to us by the English and Welsh.
History doesnt wait. It sneaks up on you and imposes itself on you. People stating we in the Republic wouldnt take the north or vive versa dont understand that history doesnt wait. The North and South will merge by the sheer force of history. Desire and logic be damned.
In theory but anyone thinking the pro Remain wing of Unionism is suddenly going to vote for a UI is deluded.
A United Ireland can work out really well in fact, better than of you all think for example with a United Ireland the Irish language can grow back then pretty much everything Irish that the British took can be brought back to make Ireland a better place. Ireland can use Northern Ireland as an advantage with the Titanic Museum bringing in lots of tourists then the Agriculture sector growing rapidly, Belfast also holds Victoria Square where the only Apple shop in Ireland is located this can also bring an advantage think of all the money Belfast makes that the UK get going straight to the Ireland economy. If people just think about the whole United Ireland then it can work really well better than you think
How about an independent Northern Ireland leading to an eventual unification – could show us in the republic how they can stand on their own and not be a burden.
It’d be the ideal solution in my eyes. My heart answered this poll for me, yes for a united Ireland. But thinking of the economic impact on both ROI and NI, plus the huge risk of a return to violence, I would be worried.
The economic impact would be wholly positive for reunification. Consider the amount of money that could be saved by not having two separate systems of health care, of education, of transport, of agriculture, of inward investment on a small island of just 6 million people. Ask any successful business or employer, north or south, if a border with its different fiscal policies and tariffs helps or hinders business development and have a wild guess what they’ll tell you. Seriously, think about that. Similarly, ask a businessman/woman in the border areas whether cross-border credit card transaction fees, wavering northern/southern mobile phone signals leading to undue roaming charges, not to mention two currencies and two tax and pay-roll systems make trade easier or more difficult. Their answer might contain more than a few expletives. Partition has been economically crippling to Ireland and yestedays vote has only worsned that north and south. We cannot afford NOT to reunify.
You make some great points and I hope they are all correct! It would be great to reunify smoothly.
The North is full of Public sector workers, How would the republic pay/employ them? No thanks, they and we would be better off If they stayed where they are or stand on their own 2 feet, If they cant stand on their own 2 feet how would they be positive for the Republic? We would end up in serious debt, No thanks, we stay as we are.
Shinner economics….
i do laugh at the shinners who seem to think their is an open invitation to join our republic :D
€36bn would cover the cost!
http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/united-irish-economy-could-deliver-boost-of-36bn-388959.html
Can we pleas have a poll asking us if we`d like to leave the EU like the Brits have just done ?
Yes and the no voters should be sent to Britain or purgatory
@ Aaron – Even Bertie (in one of his more spectacular gaffes) mooted that point some years ago. Personally I think leaving the Commonwealth was where the rot started – not that I’d expect much agreement on that. The Chinese have a popular curse which goes something like “May you live in interesting times”. Indeed.
Better again, lets become part of the UK…
If someone could give me 5 good reasons for Unionists voting for a United Ireland I would be very impressed.
1. Northern Ireland cannot afford to leave the EU. The EU is where the UK gets the money to fund NI.
2. The UK is inevitably about to collapse. Similar to what happened with the Great Famine, the English will then a blind eye to the chaos of northern Ireland as they pull funding away from them to ease the transition for the British in England as they find their new legs.
3. Once the Scots vote themselves out, great Britain will have no more loyalty towards their unionist cousins of northern Ireland.
4. Northern Ireland will be forced into independence which they can’t afford, if the referendum does not unite Ireland. They will soon find themselves will no funding for dole, public jobs, hospitals, etc etc.
5. The power of the catholic church in Ireland is gradually diminishing, with the results of the most recent census showing the increase in atheism or people if no religion, there will be a push for more sectarian schools!
I would like to see it go to the polls yes, if it did and was rejected so be it at least we would know. Yes there will be economical implications but we need to look past that. Many of my English friends think the Irish hate the EU and while that may be true we are definitely not capable of going it alone and imagine what we could achieve as a United Ireland. I would literally be the proudest day of my 34 years alive. These same people don’t think we deserve the right to vote, the right to our own democracy which infuriates me. These people said Scotland would be foolish to lease great britain (I used small letters on purpose by the way) and said we are stronger together and then in the blink of the eye decide to take away the one thing they had going for them (the EU). I say we vote and I say we do it fast, strike while the iron is hot #32 (by the way my feelings are not born from hatred towards Britain or England or the people that live there, they are born from years of my people suffering and the divide the actual divide has caused, 2 national anthems, walls separating neighbours etc. We are better together
Aren’t Unionist beginning to twig that Brexit is about English nationalist narcissism and even if Ireland returned to conflict through reimposing the border they care not a jot its collateral damage to them. If Scotland votes for independence there won’t even be a Union Jack for them to wave.
My dream as a Scot is to regain our Gaelic culture with our cousins from the Emerald Isle. I’d like to see a unified Ireland with a bridge or tunnel from Belfast to Stranraer. English is not our language; our language is Gàidhlig / Gaeilge. We need to combine the two and make a common language and make it the priority language of Scotland and Ireland. Maybe within a couple of generations we could have more than 10 million Gaelic speakers!! It’s my dream to see all Celts being bi-lingual, speaking our true language but obviously for travel and business purposes, English too. It saddens me to say it but a unified Ireland might be the only hope for the Gaelic language to survive in Scotland.
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Of course Ireland should be united. The problem is convincing the North (all of them) to come under the reign of the tremendous bag of yokes driving the bus at the moment. That won’t be easy.
Up North, they pay taxes and get something in return.
Down here, we pay taxes and get more taxes in return, and god help ya if you complain about it.
Who’d want to join THAT club?
The shinners are on …..
Vote here
A free flight home seems only fair
have your say