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RollingNews.ie

Poll: Would you support a garda strike?

What do you think?

THE GARDA UNION is asking its members to vote for or against industrial action as part of their current pay dispute with the Department of Justice.

Having rejected the Lansdowne Road agreement, gardaí are currently receiving no pay increments – salaries currently start at €23,171. This pay freeze affects anyone with less than 17 years’ service in the force, or 62% of rank-and-file gardaí.

So we’re asking, If the gardaí decide to strike, would you support them?


Poll Results:

Yes (10733)
No (4683)
I don't know (506)

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144 Comments
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    Mute John Flood
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:58 AM

    Hard to justify the wages a Luas operator or Dublin bus driver receives vis a vis the Gardai wages. Time to recognize the police profession in this country. The Garda certainly not the highest paid in the EU!

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    Mute Martin Flood
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    Sep 7th 2016, 11:36 AM

    @John
    Nobody’s salary should be compared to a Luas driver’s salary. If that’s the benchmark then the country is screwed.

    186
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    Mute Peadar Ó Gréacháin
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    Sep 7th 2016, 11:57 AM

    Absolutely, they are as much entitled to fair play is any other citizen of Ireland….

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking!
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    Sep 7th 2016, 12:05 PM

    Perhaps look a little closer, and not only at the entry base salary – not including overtime, allowances, etc.

    Then cross compare at various stages in the increment system, including all additional payments – again only quoting base salary is misinformation, and disingenuous.

    Compare sergeant level, inspector level, etc.

    Compare pension entitlements, and cost of these pensions, compare to amounts actually paid into pensions, calculate the difference and add into income.

    Then compare across europe, and you will see a very different picture.

    62
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    Mute Axl H Jealy
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    Sep 7th 2016, 5:24 PM

    Why don’t you publish these figures for us seeing is you must have already done the maths

    77
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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking!
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    Sep 8th 2016, 9:23 AM

    E.G.
    Garda payroll = 971 Million
    Members = approx 13000

    = 74k on average, this is not badly paid. Also not including various top up in the form of allowances, many of them TAX FREE.

    3
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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking!
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    Sep 8th 2016, 9:29 AM

    Read this

    https://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/media/committees/pac/correspondence/2012-publicsectorallowances/PAC-R-703-Correspondence-3D.2-FULL.pdf

    on average 30% of garda pay is in the form of allowances.

    Also the highest allowances claimed by a garda (rank) was over €50,000 in one year.
    Inspectors claimed over €60,000

    A garda claiming OVER €50,000 on top of their salary in additional payments overtime and allowances !!!!!!!!

    So don’t tell me they are underpaid

    2
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    Mute Mark Ryan
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    Sep 8th 2016, 9:57 AM

    You got the average from dividing garda numbers into total.. You do realise different ranks have different pay scales don’t you and this information is available online.. A garda with 20 years service earns 44k basic pay. To earn 74k they would need to work about 100 days overtime!

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    Sep 8th 2016, 10:13 AM

    Yes i understand averages, so clearly some members of the gardai are cleaning up !!! and getting paid massive amounts then.

    Also please reference my second post, highlighting garda rank members claiming over €50k a year in allowances and overtime…..on top of your €44k basic

    = €94k a year……not badly paid

    1
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    Mute scientia
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    Sep 8th 2016, 11:38 AM

    We aren’t talking about high ranks. We’re talking about Gardai. The front line. Don’t come here with ridiculous averages.

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    Mute Mark Ryan
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    Sep 8th 2016, 3:22 PM

    That’s a dead link by the way?? So a garda has earned 50k in overtime and allowances, where is the scandal if someone is able to earn money working overtime? Or are you using an isolated example to try prove something that isn’t there? Surely if someone worked every single day with no day off they are entitled to earn extra money?

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    Mute Mark Ryan
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    Sep 8th 2016, 3:24 PM

    And again to make your point you quote one figure and say that must be everybody’s wage so?? That’s almost ad ridiculous as the way you calculated average wage! You also managed to mention all the perks ypu believe ate there without mentioning aby of the extra levies or contributions they pay… But I don’t think that suited your agenda

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking!
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    Sep 8th 2016, 3:38 PM

    @mark

    My apologies, the journal stripped out some characters from the link.

    Try this shortened version, copy and paste into a browser and click enter

    goo.gl/XWjmJJ

    What extra levies or contributions? their pensions are still taxpayer topped up after retirement, and any contributions are still too little for what they get in return.

    The pension deal the Gardai have is amazing, and the fact you are complaining about shows you have lost touch with reality.

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    Mute TokezBurke
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:38 AM

    Wow. 23k!! I’m paid more in a junior position. A real disgrace

    372
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    Mute Winston Smith
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    Sep 7th 2016, 10:13 AM

    23k rising to what over what time frame?… and don’t forget the very generous pensions. Most university graduates also face similar prospects and they’ve had to pay thousands for their education.

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    Mute Niall Behan
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    Sep 7th 2016, 10:19 AM

    Winston what has this got to do with anybody except Gardai ? What has the hard ships of the police force of this country got to do with “all university graduates ?”

    This is not a communist state and wages are not equal or down to how much you work (clearly as the Luas drivers are paid a fortune if that’s the case )

    The Gardai are under paid as the protectors of our society and that’s what this is about. Simple as they are manipulated and abused by the government and deserve to have their pay restored and rent allowance put back in place

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    Mute Carl Nolan
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    Sep 7th 2016, 10:25 AM

    I was paid almost as much as an intern. Personally I think the Gardaí are bit useless but 23k is disgraceful.

    51
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    Mute Jack Bowden
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    Sep 7th 2016, 10:48 AM

    There doesn’t seem to be a shortage of people who want to join the Guards. Very few Gardai leave the force too.

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking!
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    Sep 7th 2016, 10:53 AM

    Please publish a few p60′s from gardai in the force at 5 years, 10 years, 15 years, 20 years.
    Include all allowances, overtime, shift payment, anti social hours payments, etc etc…..

    Publish realistic, total figures, including all income, not cheery pick unrepresentative figures…..for spin and PR reasons……where is the journalism in this country????

    111
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    Mute Alan Scott
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    Sep 7th 2016, 11:31 AM

    I’m sure a lot of criminal gangs would support it as well

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    Mute Paul Hughes
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    Sep 7th 2016, 12:14 PM

    Y’alright mangggg!

    6
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    Mute Patrick James Walsh
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    Sep 7th 2016, 2:37 PM

    Oops, they did`nt like that, Carl, hope you don`t get singled out for `special treatment`, the next time your caught driving 10km per hour over the speed limit !.

    8
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    Mute Patrick James Walsh
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    Sep 7th 2016, 2:39 PM

    The journalist`s are in the pockets of the guards, they rely on them for stories, they are not going to bite the hand that`s feeding them.

    16
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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking!
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    Sep 7th 2016, 2:39 PM

    Straight into the pulse system, given the proven corruption, and dodgy dealings in the gardai over the last couple of years

    14
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    Mute Axl H Jealy
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    Sep 7th 2016, 5:26 PM

    How many have left in the last 5 years?

    16
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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Sep 7th 2016, 5:34 PM

    Not as dodgy and corrupt as some of the corporates and agencies in this country which the government are afraid to say ‘boo’ too…..

    37
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    Mute Winston Smith
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    Sep 7th 2016, 6:07 PM

    Niall asks what has this(Garda pay) got to do with anyone else?…well niall, firstly the Garda are rightly comparing their income to other public servants and occupations in general who have the same costs of living, and also all tax payers must finance the Garda and public service and in doing so expect value for money. A number of reports have consistently come to the conclusion that public servants are paid significantly more than the private sector when everything is taken into account. What irks most people is the many stories of Garda retiring early on very generous pensions despite the new recruits suffering low early entry pay. This happens on education also.

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    Sep 7th 2016, 6:12 PM

    Very very few if any have left over the last few years.

    Unless you are counting early retirement when the taxpayer generously overpaid gardai to retire early, which was voluntary and mercenary. Not due to being paid to little.

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    Mute Jeremy DeChad
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:01 PM

    Plus the journalists no doubt stump up a few Bob for the stories from the guards which I am sure are included in the stats about their pay right?

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    Mute Axl H Jealy
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:04 PM

    Ya don’t have any figures no?

    12
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    Mute #knowingitall
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    Sep 7th 2016, 11:29 PM

    And when do these graduates have to put their lives on the line almost everyday eg Adrian Donohoe +Tiny Golden. Even if they got twice what the luas drivers are going to get its still not enough for what the Gardai face every day as far as I am concerned. They are they 1st protection for this country and let’s face it if you are robbed in the morning it won’t be a luas driver who will go their best to apprehend the culprit

    13
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    Mute Unitedpeople
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    Sep 8th 2016, 5:31 AM

    On average, the force loses 600+ a year.

    3
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    Mute Unitedpeople
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    Sep 8th 2016, 5:33 AM

    @ Jack Bowden

    On average, the force loses 600+ Garda a year through retirement or leaving due to economic factors etc..

    4
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    Mute Brian D
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    Sep 7th 2016, 10:42 AM

    Most Garda stations are so understaffed and under resourced that they might as well be on strike

    354
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    Mute Niall Behan
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:50 AM

    The Gardai in this country are paid by far the worst of any public servants. Yet they are the ones who are relied on the most by people all over the country. Who do you ring when your house has been broken into or you have been involved in a dispute ? The government have too long been taking advantage of the fact they know the Gardai cannot strike and so I believe the only way they can actually get the message across is a strike. I believe a work to rule would be beneficial. If the Gardai stop stamping passports I reckon you’d be very surprised how quickly things change as the TDs realise their passports are due a renewal before their upcoming trip away.

    Too many people have been taking the biscuit with strikes for literally no reason (Luas etc ) and the Gardai aren’t being unreasonable. They are simple asking for their pay to be RESTORED to what it was pre recession , and for rent allowance to be put back in place , as currently a Gardai with a family travelling across the country gets not a cent more than the others , and yet is paid less than if he were working in McDonald’s full time. We as a country need to support the striking workers who DESERVE to strike.

    241
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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking!
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    Sep 7th 2016, 6:38 PM

    @Niall,

    Prove your baseless assertion that gardai are so badly paid or the lowest paid public servants….

    Rubbish, provide figures.

    Year 1 – early retirement at 50 – + pension entitlements after that. All stages of the salary scale, including rent help and all allowances.

    Please enlighten us why Gardai get a unsocial hours payment every month TAX FREE.

    Then we can talk, otherwise it is just you hiding all information, and making wild claims and expecting us to believe them.

    No……provide figures, representative inclusive, realistic figures.

    Or shut up

    8
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    Mute Niall Behan
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    Sep 7th 2016, 6:42 PM

    First off. Your comment is beyond out of line.

    You don’t have your name on this , so you are hiding behind your little computer and are clearly afraid of actually voicing your opinion from the perspective of somebody who can be tracked etc. I.e. You are nobody.

    Secondly I was just voicing my opinion , so I won’t shut up.

    Thirdly look how many up votes I have on this thread. All of your comments are down voted. Nobody agrees with you. Mine on the other hand look at those up votes. I know I speak with sense unlike someone who replies to my comment 9 hours later and tells me to shut up ?

    I’ve a lot of info on this with friends the Garda and I wish someday you do need them and they aren’t there for you as you clearly don’t respect the profession at all

    Good luck

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    Sep 7th 2016, 6:50 PM

    Rubbish,

    Firstly: You were making an assertion that gardai are the lowest paid public servants.

    Secondly: I have challenged that and asked you to back it up, or shut up. You have done neither, except accuse me of crossing a line because I question you, you are not God.

    Thirdly: whether or not I publish my real name is irrelevant, you seem to want to attack the messenger not the messenger. It is my right to anonymously post, in fact people who do not are idiots. Would you prefer complete state control like China, because I believe in freedom and human rights.

    Fourthly: you make accusations about respect for gardai. That again is irrelevant.

    If you want more money from me the taxpayer, it is completely reasonable for the taxpayer to have transparency and see the figures.

    So once again….withdraw your wild and baseless assertions, and answer some simple questions of fact.

    All of which you did not ignore from my post by accident, and neither did you feign exaggerated offence and indignation, simply to avoid answering relevant questions

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    Sep 7th 2016, 6:53 PM

    ..by accident

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    Mute Niall Behan
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    Sep 7th 2016, 6:55 PM

    Nobody likes your comments. So my point would be that your points are simply invalid because you talk so much bull it’s a waste of my time from here on to engage.

    The Garda are on essentially minimum wage for the first few years which as they literally are in fact the protectors of the society we live in is a joke leaving the door open to corruption.

    I’m not asserting anything. You are stupidly accusing me of loads of bull tbh and good luck sir. Enjoy Living as a nobody you fool you’ll always be nobody

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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:16 PM

    The thumbs are orchestrated Garda red thumbs, they are always like this whenever a Garda story appears. It is more spin and PR, so don’t think it means anything.

    I am not surprised they dislike hearing that they are manipulating the figures, hiding true earning, afraid to include overtime and allowances.

    Focus only on trainee Garda at the lowest possible level on the scale.

    Tell me what a Garda after 10 years earns, including average overtime, unsocial hours tax free payments, and all other extras.
    Or 15 years.

    Then tell me what a sergeant makes, then a inspector.

    Tell me when they can retire and what the pension is worth, and how much the taxpayer is subsidising it….after they have retired.

    Not one single Garda or union rep will answer these questions….

    It is very telling……and you are typical of it, not one fact to back anything you say up

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    Mute Niall Behan
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:25 PM

    Upvote this if Google tracker is a loser

    36
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:29 PM

    No answers? Thought not….thanks and shut up.

    If you cannot debate or back up your points, you are pathetic. Simply a propaganda channel, misinformation, to deceive.

    Bring on the Garda red thumbs, I doubt they will like legitimate questions being asked, and scepticism of their transparency and openness.

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    Mute Niall Behan
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    Sep 7th 2016, 10:15 PM

    You shut up ye big virgin. You saying the red thumbs are after you is just denial that you’re a loser nobody likes anything you say. So just give up you fool

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking!
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    Sep 7th 2016, 10:20 PM

    Peer pressure and bullying are well known to be popular with the Gardai.

    This is not the Gardai now, this is the real world.

    It the strength of your ideas out here in the real world, and you have nothing at all. Go back and bully some of your Garda buddies……

    If you have not joined yet, you would fit right in.

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    Mute Mark Ryan
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    Sep 8th 2016, 10:00 AM

    Google track you make a lot of claims without backing them up? You have made numerous statements without evidence… unsociable hours etc??

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    Sep 8th 2016, 10:26 AM

    It is a fact, unsocial hours and rent allowance are tax free. Unsocial hours and rent allowance can add up t0 €10,000 a year (equivalent of €20, 000 before tax) in addition to their salary.

    A report on the top 20 claimers of overtime and allowances within the Gardai starts at €53k up to €64k…..and cover ranks from basic Garda to inspector)

    https://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/media/committees/pac/correspondence/2012-publicsectorallowances/PAC-R-703-Correspondence-3D.2-FULL.pdf

    Do you have something to add, or some evidence to contradict what I am saying?

    I notice no gardai are answering any questions, or revealing these facts themselves…..the silence is deafening…….

    except to mention trainee gardai on €23k for only 32 weeks….before first pay rise.

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    Mute jane
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:37 AM

    Starting wage of €23,000 for the job just isn’t right.

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    Mute Ben McArthur
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    Sep 7th 2016, 11:21 AM

    How do you establish what the right rate is? There are 25 applicants for every junior Garda post, so apparently lots of people think it’s a good deal.

    37
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    Sep 7th 2016, 12:08 PM

    They are welcome to quit, and get another job. They may find it is not easy either, all jobs are tough, that is why people get paid to do them.

    Also, were any of them to quit, there is a queue of people to happily take that job from them.

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    Mute Angela Coll
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:08 PM

    All jobs are tough
    Some are a lot harder than others
    Not that many people go to work each day knowing they could be shot at, spat at, stabbed or have to do death notifications

    Oh and they are quitting!
    Check out the numbers taking Early retirement & career breaks

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    Sep 8th 2016, 8:55 AM

    Early retirement is cashing in, and costs the taxpayer a lot. It is not leaving due to being paid too little……so irrelevant……also the fact the have to be bribed to leave says it all

    Career breaks, again is screwing the system, and the taxpayer……with extended holidays with job guaranteed on return…..who wouldn’t do that if available.

    Travel for a few months etc……hardly an indication people are paid too little, quite the opposite it shows how good the conditions are to allow such a thing.

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    Mute Ed Magnier
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:52 AM

    A disgrace, a poorly paid police force is just asking for trouble.

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    Mute Paul Mc
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    Sep 7th 2016, 10:17 AM

    The law and order party Fine Gael have allowed this to happen. They more or less closed down Templemore and introduced less pay for everyone across the board except for the judiciary and politicians. The most experienced Garda have retired due to government policy on pensions, it’s no wonder the rule of law is in disarray. The country is rotten to the core.

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    Mute Gerry Fallon
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:49 AM

    When is this debacle going to stop. These gardai deserve a proper wage for the very tough and dangerous job they do.Why are they putting them through this?Exposing them in such a public way? It’s no wonder morale is low.Discussing their wages in public. This is a disgraceful way to be treating our police force and the Minister for justice should be ashamed for letting this continue. If something is not done very soon to improve their salaries and conditions we are going to see droves of these members leaving so they can get better paid jobs and be able to pay their mortgages and survive. How can anyone in this day and age survive on 23 grand.stop with a mortgage,car to get to and from the station which is probably 40/50 miles away from where they live.Shopping,kids clothes.school fees etc.etc.Its absolutely mental to expect these gardai to do this job and be happy and contented.I know if I was a garda I wouldn’t be,would you?

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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:53 PM

    What better paid job will they find? What skills do they have?

    Early retiring had to be bribed to leave, and people are queuing up to join.

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    Mute ray.farrelly
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:33 AM

    I support everyone’s right to strike.

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    Mute Joan walsh
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    Sep 7th 2016, 11:38 AM

    Why? If they are well paid excellent conditions overtime allowances etc.surely like all ‘rights’ there should be justification

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    Sep 7th 2016, 1:09 PM

    Sorry Ray,

    It is illegal for Gardai to strike, just like the defence forces. Its the law, and the gardai’s duty to enforce the law…….wow full circle

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    Mute James Costello
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    Sep 7th 2016, 4:45 PM

    Sounds fairly risky … Crime lords smiling !!

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    Mute Eugene Comaskey
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    Sep 7th 2016, 6:09 PM

    I think Europe said that it wasn’t Illegal for Gardai to take industrial action.

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    Mute The Clarifier
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    Sep 8th 2016, 12:33 AM

    My previous comment was removed so I will say it again…the article is wrong. The Garda “Union” arent asking their members to strike because they are not a union. Its called the Garda Representative Association because its not a union. The govt were told by europe years ago that Gardai were entitled to join trade unions and therefore strike. The govt have failed to implement the ruling and the GRA are tight lipped because its not in their interest to allow Gardai join unions either

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    Sep 8th 2016, 8:58 AM

    Europe gave an opinion on the matter, it is not legally enforceable, and Ireland has sovereignity over these matters. The government disagree with that from a committee in europe.

    The actual legal reality in Ireland is that Gardai are not protected by law if they strike, exposing themselves to serious consequences.

    Also the GRA cannot encourage members to strike without breaking the law also.

    This is the reality, and I for one would like to see the government enforce the law.

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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:51 AM

    Usually when a guerd leaves college he/she is sent to a station a long way from their home. Presently there is no compensation for living and accomodation costs and with the rising cost of rent it makes life for the Garda very difficult. Don’t forget also the personal costs of transport to and from work, almost impossible on the low rate of pay.

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    Mute Trevor Beale
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    Sep 7th 2016, 10:29 AM

    A lot of people on low wages have to travel to and from work. Doesn’t make it right but it still happens.

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    Mute twit
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    Sep 7th 2016, 11:15 AM

    @Chris fully agree here. The should certainly have subsidised accommodation especially the poor lads sent to big cities. I do think the context of this debate is slightly skewed though. They do start on very poor pay but rather than just highlight this.. Detail how quick they earn better pay.. The overall picture is not exactly clear. It’s fair to assume that guards that start with minimum responsibility so obviously they are paid far less. Is the increments increased to a justifiable rate is where I am concerned. If they are paid 23k for their time in the college is that not atleast somewhat justifiable. I am open for any corrections if any of you are aware.

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking!
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    Sep 7th 2016, 12:21 PM

    Twit,

    Are you seriously suggesting that the unions and guards are cherry picking statistics to twist the true facts, and present an unrepresentative summary of their pay and conditions??

    Surely they have more integrity than that !!!

    Oh wait, you are right, they are spreading intentional misinformation, incomplete and misleading deliberately…….damn, who would have thought……

    They also would deliberately refuse to ever publish true take home pay across various different years of service, a couple of P60′s would be very revealing, and just the public the truth.

    What possible reason could they have to hide this, and spread misinformation in its place???

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    Mute Eoin
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    Sep 7th 2016, 4:39 PM

    They get a bad rap from some people. There a vital emergency services and they are OK with you if your OK with them

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    Mute gavin brett
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    Sep 7th 2016, 10:25 AM

    About time they strike this government live in a different world ro the rest of us if they strike I for one would support it 100%

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    Mute Seth Cheffetz
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    Sep 7th 2016, 10:00 AM

    These are the people that deserve a raise! Not the greedy overpaid ignorant bus drivers.

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    Mute ricky bobby
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:36 AM

    23k for the first year of any job is good money. If you go to college you get nothing for four years, if you do an apprenticeship I think your first year rate is around 9k?
    Graduates can only expect pay of around 30k after they finish college, where as these lads are only in the door and 23k is their base salary, not counting overtime.
    Am I missing something?

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    Mute Al Ca
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:37 AM

    Risk.

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    Mute ricky bobby
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:39 AM

    True but every job has risks, electricians, farmers, nurses…

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    Mute Eyepopper
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:45 AM

    I think most people support more pay for nurses, but it is hardly comparible to being a Garda in terms of risk.

    Average salary for a certified electrician is €35k – based on a 40 hour week.

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    Mute Niall Behan
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:52 AM

    Dealing with fights , burglaries , telling people their love ones have died , riots , abuse on the daily basis and every other part of dealing with the worst 1% of our society.

    Not worth it for 23k a year

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    Mute Sean
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:56 AM

    Being a nurse probably is comparable to guards in terms of risk. Nurses are regularly abused and assaulted. Not that that matters. I support the guards in this case. 23k is terrible pay for their job.

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    Mute Honeybee
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    Sep 7th 2016, 10:05 AM

    The jobs you describe have a qualified risk which with education, training and health /safety and common sense [which sadly is not that common] can mitigate against injury and harm quite unlike the exposure to gardai who are actually targeted for the job they do, any other occupation where you need an anti stab vest, bullet proof vest or self defense equipment just to dress for work, this is a stand alone occupation in terms of hazard/ risk and they are certainly underpaid ,fully support their demands when a luas driver is better paid then risking your life for buttons .

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    Mute Ben McArthur
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    Sep 7th 2016, 11:14 AM

    The fact that the Gardai wear stab proof vests doesn’t itself prove anything about the actual risks they face, only the perceived risks they face.

    In statistical terms, farming and construction are far more dangerous than being a guard. So are working as a refuse collector or a car mechanic, and even estate agents have a higher rate of risk. There may be a fair amount of risk variance of course – you would expect that a beat Garda in a city centre is at more risk than one who mans a station with an average of less than one crime report a day. But the overall risk is actually too small for significant differences to be measurable.

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    Mute Joan walsh
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    Sep 7th 2016, 11:41 AM

    No you are spot on

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    Mute Honeybee
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    Sep 7th 2016, 11:55 AM

    One in 5 gardaí injured in line of duty | Irish Examiner
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/one-in-5-gardai-injured-in-line-of-duty-372563.html
    These were the figures produced in response to a Dail question so in statistical terms they are shockingly relevant, the difference in the occupations you cite are that these injuries/deaths are largely accidental/ resulting from failure to adhere to industry standard or health/safety guidelines, in contrast, injuries to gardai are often targeted with over 30 gardai shot or violently killed
    Garda Tony Golden is 88th member of force killed in line of duty
    http://www.irishtimes.com/…/garda-tony-golden-is-88th-member-of-force-killed-in-line-o

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    Mute joe o hare
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    Sep 7th 2016, 12:06 PM

    The fact that a garda injured in the line of duty will get paid leave and a lump sum would be skewing the figures. If they didn’t have this like most others they would be back at work the next day.

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    Mute Honeybee
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    Sep 7th 2016, 12:13 PM

    Any person who sustains work related injuries is entitled to treatment and redress, this is not specific to gardai and has no bearing on the matter under discussion.

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    Mute Ross O'Callaghan
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    Sep 7th 2016, 1:07 PM

    Just to clarify..they are not on 23k in the door..Its €184 pw for the first 9 months..then they rise to 23k once attested..and as it stands that’s for the next 2 years as with the Haddington Rd agreement all increments are on hold. Overtime is not actually an option as for the first 12 months they are with a tutor garda which means that they are not in a position or allowed to do OT in all reality. I think a lot of people are misunderstanding this issue, no one is looking for a pay rise its pay restoration which is a different kettle of Fisher imo

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    Mute Patrick James Walsh
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    Sep 7th 2016, 1:27 PM

    No, your not missing anything, just orchestrated red thumbing here. Pointless engaging, but we know what your saying, everyone does.

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    Mute Gwendoline
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    Sep 7th 2016, 1:36 PM

    Not to forget that on top of the €184 pw they also get free food & board.. Access to a gym, pool etc..

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    Mute Peter Cavey
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:34 AM

    Only if the army step in to cover. Otherwise no.

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    Mute Niall Behan
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:45 AM

    So Gardai have no right to strike and can just be used and abused by the government and have no right to fight for their pay ? Sometimes you have to do what’s necessary to impose fairness in an unfair situation

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    Mute Patrick Watson
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:47 AM

    It’s a vocation Niall.

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    Mute Niall Behan
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:54 AM

    A vocation ? So when everyone realises how terrible the pay is and the numbers drop (which is already happening ) and Gardai numbers slump, I’m sure The next time somebody breaks into your house and it takes the Gardai 3 hours to arrive I’m sure you’ll be saying “ah sure the Gardai are paid enough they choose to be in he job “

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    Mute Christy Nolan
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:57 AM

    The army of corruption stepped in 50 years ago. Let the Politicians step in from their “extended” holiday and do something useful for a change. Give the garda a Sweetheart tax deal or give them a NAMA Section 110 deal or a deal similar to the Cushnahan/ Nama deal highlighted on Spotlight last night.
    An Apple a day lowers our garda’s pay.

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    Mute Eyepopper
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:37 AM

    100% support their argument for better pay and conditions, but 100% against them going out on strike.

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    Mute Niall Behan
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    Sep 7th 2016, 10:24 AM

    You’re 100% support means nothing if the government don’t have the pressure put on them to do something about it

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    Mute rockmast
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    Sep 7th 2016, 11:12 AM

    My neighbour is a retired Garda. He is only fifty six and is well capable of still policing our streets. After gaining years of experience and doing lots of training he has retired. It will take a new recruit years to get up to the level of an experienced Garda. Even driving a car takes several years of practice.

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    Mute Winston Smith
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    Sep 7th 2016, 8:42 PM

    The majority of such neighbours are from the public service because most folk in the private sector simply cannot afford such a penion.

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    Mute Kal Ipers
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    Sep 7th 2016, 10:08 AM

    I am not fully aware of how the salary structures work but is 23k an honest description of pay? As I recall nobody actually just gets that due to the various top ups. Not an attack just want it explained.

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    Mute Eyepopper
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    Sep 7th 2016, 10:16 AM

    Various top up’s & allowances, as well as over time budgets have been slashed / done away with, ever since we decided to spend hundreds of millions paying off losing bets.

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking!
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    Sep 7th 2016, 12:13 PM

    It a fair point, no guard is only receiving that amount.

    It is the starting point on a ever increasing scale, with tonnes of allowances, the most of any civil servant. All negotiated by unions to increase take home pay of their members, they argued when allowances were being reduced (following public outcry at their ridiculous nature) that these allowances were “core pay”

    Match that with every statement from the union publicly, they never quote the “core pay” total, and always leave out all of the allowances.

    The total guard pay roll in publicly available, as is the total number of guards, a simple division exposes that they are paid very well indeed.

    Yes the entry level guard is subsidising the high salaries paid to his superiors, but he is happy to do that, knowing that one day he too will be on the gravy train.

    This is the reality.

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    Mute John R
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    Sep 7th 2016, 12:43 PM

    HalloGoogleTracking, I agree that the Govt should publish more information. Most civil servants get their core pay and no allowances. Guards are not civil servants and their allowances are largely a recognition of historically poor wages. As wages improved however the allowances also improved. New recruits to the Gardaí deserve a higher rate of pay. More information would allow a better understanding of the position. Gardaí should not be allowed to strike. But in recognition of this they deserve some flexibility in pay and conditions. For example in terms of sick pay they get the standard public service allowance of three months full pay over a four year period. This may be highly unfair to many in a profession which suffers a high attrition rate from violence. One size does not fit all. Stoke no. Better treatment yes. More investment in modern technology yes.

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking!
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    Sep 7th 2016, 12:50 PM

    Public servants then, better? People paid exclusively from taxes collected from people in the private sector better?

    Allowances were a method to increase pay for the gardai under the radar to prevent counter claims from other public unions……that is the reason. They were and are pay increases, hidden behind the double speak of the unions.

    The problem is when they try and manipulate them to their advantage, claiming they are not pay, and never including them in any PR just like above.

    Also they always start at the bottom, never the top, print out the total income including allowances of all the higher level gardai.

    It is equally possible that those at the bottom are paid too little, and those at the top are paid too much.

    I agree generally with what you say, and the sick issue is clearly correct…..this debate however is about are gardai underpaid or not.

    The only way to determine that is to publish the figures so we can see, not just a cherry picked example that deliberately gives a false impression.

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    Mute Motherofdivinejebus
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:55 AM

    Wonder if they fancy going out on strike for the 17th of September?

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    Mute Rothar Man
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:40 AM

    The money is shocking and wrong but they know the money before they sign up. Striking is not the way to solve problems. Unhappy in your job? Leave it.

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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:53 AM

    ‘Unhappy in your job? leave it……and then what, back to the dole office.

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    Mute Eyepopper
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:54 AM

    The govt have already stripped the force of a vast amount of experience, the last thing in the world we need is for swathes more current Gardai to leave.

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    Mute Niall Behan
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    Sep 7th 2016, 10:06 AM

    Again if every Gardai did this the country would be in ruins.

    If there is one thing to be learned from the Luas drivers (although they are beyond undeserving) is putting pressure on people does seem to work , and hopefully in this case it will be the kind of pressure that’s needed and not just for the sake of being greedy (as was the Luas drivers)

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    Mute Eyepopper
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    Sep 7th 2016, 10:19 AM

    Different set of circumstances and a totally different type of pressure Niall. The company that operates Luas is a private, for profit company. Every day of strike cost them money and impacted on the value of the company, sooner or later it gets to a point where granting their demands makes commercial sense.

    The only ones that suffer from a strike by the Gardai are the public. So essentially a strike will be the Gardai using the security and suffering of the people to get their way.

    I support their demands but a police force striking is unacceptable… the broader issue of course is the Govt allowing things to get to a situation where the police feel they have no option but to strike.

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    Mute Niall Behan
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    Sep 7th 2016, 10:23 AM

    All strikes affect the public. Are you saying the Luas strike didn’t affect commuters ?

    The Gardai in this country cannot sit back and simply wait for the pay to be increased when nobody is campaigning for their pay to be restored. Until the pressure is put on the government and the Gardai strike nobody will realistically do anything to help them.

    I support a work to rule. So no passports stamped and no extra work done. See how long it takes for the Gardai to get support when people can’t go on their sun holidays without a a passport

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    Mute Rand Al Thor
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    Sep 7th 2016, 10:31 AM

    To me it’s simple,an all inclusive salary for police,no allowances other than perhaps a Dublin allowance if it can be justified.The demand for this new improved salary is a minimum 40 hour week and a new operations structure with police on the streets and rural patrols.not closeted in Garda stations with the cars parked outside.

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    Mute Eyepopper
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    Sep 7th 2016, 10:33 AM

    Inconveniencing commuters is not comparable to risking peoples safety or security, I think you are doing the role of the Gardai a disservice by suggesting otherwise.

    I’m not suggesting they sit back and do nothing, as you say, a work to rule, or ceasing of certain functions is one way to go, but an all out strike? Sorry but no, I will never agree with that.

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    Mute Niall Behan
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    Sep 7th 2016, 10:36 AM

    Never once did I mention an all out strike nor did it say it in the article.

    A work to rule is a type of industrial action or strike action so yes I support the Gardais right to industrial action and strike action. It’s up to them to choose the most appropriate to their job spec. There is nothing to be gained by saying stuff such as Gardai can’t strike etc and tbh it just encourages people to agree with you.

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking!
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    Sep 7th 2016, 2:46 PM

    The poll question specifically asks if you would support a “strike”.
    Not some watered down industrial action, that is not the question, not work to rule – strike !

    Refusing to carry out their duties, or work to rule is also illegal, especially if organised by a union, in return for financial gain, or to hold the state to ransom…….
    Offering inducements to prevent gardai from carrying out their duty is a crime, with 5 years in prison.

    Gardai and the Army are specifically singled out not to be allowed to strike legally in this country.

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    Mute Lukey
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:46 AM

    but then would would stand around at college green with their hand on their belts

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    Mute Eamon Mac Gowan
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    Sep 7th 2016, 10:20 AM

    It’s against the law for them to strike, end of. If they do, sack and replace them.
    It could be a wonderful opportunity to cleanse the force of it’s bad apples.

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking!
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    Sep 7th 2016, 12:41 PM

    Sack the corrupt commissioner for a start…….and those guards that lied until a recording was produced.

    Did they get sacked?

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    Mute Paul
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    Sep 7th 2016, 1:00 PM

    Can you reference that law?

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    Sep 7th 2016, 1:06 PM

    Industrial Relations Act 1990

    The act defines the term ‘workers’ but excludes members of An Garda Síochána and the Defence Forces from that term.

    In essence, the act says a strike is something ‘workers’ do – but gardaí are not ‘workers’.
    The purpose of this legislation is to provide statutory defences, or immunities, to workers taking industrial action. It protects them from actions that might be taken against them for offences like conspiracy, inducing breach of employment contract or intimidation.

    Also Section 59 of the Garda Síochána Act 2005 also makes it an offence for any person to induce a member of the Garda Síochána to withhold his or her service or to commit a breach of discipline.

    This means the garda Unions in in contravention of the law in inducing its members to strike.

    Clear?

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    Mute Paul
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    Sep 7th 2016, 1:33 PM

    Hello

    You still haven’t said shown where it’s illegal. That statue outlines protections to “workers” but does it forbid industrial action?

    An inducement is offering something to prevent the guard performing their duty. That hasn’t happened.

    Hasn’t Europe already made a decision in favour of the ability to unionise and strike?

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking!
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    Sep 7th 2016, 1:39 PM

    @Paul,

    That state provides protections to workers, to enable them to legally strike without civil exposure to legal proceedings from their employer. Do You understand?

    It means specifically and deliberately gardai are removed from these protection enabling “legal” strikes. And if they strike they are in breach of contract, garda regulations, and civil law…..all of which can result in disciplinary action up to and including dismissal. Without any recourse to defence under the law……clear enough for you. I.E. illegal

    Balloting members for industrial action to further a pay claim, is exactly inducement, and would be found so in a court of law. It would be very difficult to argue otherwise.

    Lastly europe has realised an opinion from one of their councils, it is not legally binding, and is disagreed with by our government, who have the right to do so.

    Clear?

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    Mute Paul
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    Sep 7th 2016, 5:05 PM

    I think you are misusing “illegal” if we take what you’re saying as correct that striking Gardai are in breach of contract that still doesn’t make it illegal.

    Also I’ve googled the meaning of inducement for you because you’re not using it correctly either “a thing that persuades or leads someone to do something.
    “companies were prepared to build only in return for massive inducements”"

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking!
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    Sep 7th 2016, 5:11 PM

    It is illegal to breach contracts, that is the meaning and purpose of a contract. They are legally enforceable, have you never heard of contract law? Breaking contract law is illegal, that is the entire reason contracts exist, and contract law……..

    It is 100% correct to say that anyone encouraging a Garda to go on strike is breaking the law, with penalties of 5yrs + €50,000 fine.

    “A number of legal experts TheJournal.ie spoke to said these pieces of legislation would certainly make it an offence for representative associations, such as the GRA or the AGSI, to organise a strike or encourage members to withdraw their labour.”

    Clear?

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    Mute Paul
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    Sep 8th 2016, 12:43 AM

    Breach of contract is civil law, not a criminal offence.

    The GRA are not offering anything to Gardai to strike, they are asking for an opinion, yes or no question. Still haven’t proven your points.

    Clear?

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    Sep 8th 2016, 9:05 AM

    @Paul,

    Whether it is criminal or civil it is still illegal, which was my point. Illegal illegal illegal.

    I have posted legal opinion definitively stating that the GRA organising or encouraging a strike is a criminal offence, not maybe…..but certainly !!!

    You are expressing your uninformed opinion, and have no legal interpretation experience, it is criminal for the GRA……..which is not a union to organise a strike of workers who cannot legally strike.

    5 years in jail and 50,000 fine, if prosecuted……and I would like to see the law enforced !!

    The Gardai are not above the law, and neither is the GRA.

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    Mute Paul
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    Sep 8th 2016, 11:09 AM

    Once again you are expressing your opinion. I understand trolling is a popular past time these days. Keep up the good work.

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    Sep 8th 2016, 11:14 AM

    Nope, not my opinion, it is expert legal opinion, read my post. It is in there, do you have anything to contradict that? ……

    It is not my opinion that Gardai are not above the law, it is fact.

    Breaking Criminal law is illegal, as is breaking civil law, fact.

    So stop your pathetic personal attacks, to deflect fro the facts, this is a debate,and all my facts are correct, yours are self serving and backed up with nothing but your insults, and indignation.

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    Sep 8th 2016, 11:16 AM

    You asked the question to reference the law……..i did that.

    You don’t like the answer, even though it 100% correct, and you have no reply except nonsense and insults.

    Why ask the question if you won’t accept the answer even if proved, sad really.

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    Mute The Clarifier
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    Sep 7th 2016, 1:36 PM

    The article is incorrect. The GRA is not a union. It is a representative body. The clue is in their title. They dont want their members to be allowed to join trade unions because it would end their monopoly

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    Mute Angela Coll
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    Sep 7th 2016, 9:10 PM

    Gardai are not permitted to join a union
    Hence the GRA AGSI are representative bodies not unions

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    Sep 8th 2016, 9:00 AM

    It is a distinction without a difference, unless the GRA try and call a strike, then they are breaking the law, and exposed to criminal charges….

    But since when did the Gardai follow the law themselves?

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    Mute Gaz
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    Sep 7th 2016, 12:54 PM

    I’d wipe my ass with 23k per year

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    Mute joe o hare
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    Sep 7th 2016, 11:59 AM

    How will anybody know if they are on strike or not.

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    Sep 7th 2016, 12:43 PM

    Indeed !!!

    A reduction in supermacs profits? No illegally parked gardai veeHicules……..

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    Mute Risteárd
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    Sep 7th 2016, 11:52 PM

    You can’t beat the Irish when it comes to Begrudgery!!! Why shouldn’t the Gardaí look for better pay??? Why shouldn’t everyone look for an increase in their incomes? We all have a short working life and we must make the most of it. It’s every person for themselves in this country. If you don’t speak up for yourself and look for more the person next to you will and you lose out!

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    Mute angryjoepublic
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    Sep 7th 2016, 2:29 PM

    Just to be clear – the starting salary of €23,171 , does this include all allowances? http://www.per.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/Garda-Pay-and-Allowances.pdf

    What is the real number here?

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    Mute The Clarifier
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    Sep 7th 2016, 2:18 PM

    The degree in policing after two years is good for policing. Isnt that obvious?

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    Mute Steven C. Schulz
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    Sep 7th 2016, 11:16 AM

    If you’re willing to put the public safety at risk to gain political points, you shouldn’t be allowed in the job.

    Deal with them like Ronald Reagan dealt with the air traffic controllers in 1981. Britain should deal with the doctors the same way.

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking!
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    Sep 7th 2016, 2:49 PM

    Exactly, single out a select group and fire them as an example, pick people who do little work and get paid too much.

    Higher ranks, inspectors and sergeants, and then you can hire 2 recruits for every firing.

    It would also open up new opportunities within the gardai for advancement of performing gardai who did their duty and did not strike.

    A win win

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    Mute Nigel O'Neill
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    Sep 7th 2016, 12:24 PM

    Its illegal for them to strike, No!??! Paradox?!?

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking!
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    Sep 7th 2016, 1:41 PM

    It even worse, they need to arrest themselves !!! Paradox !!!

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    Mute Padraic Jihadi
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    Sep 7th 2016, 1:55 PM

    They have lost all credibility.

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    Mute Darrell Cushion
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    Sep 7th 2016, 1:15 PM

    Where’s Wally Mooney?

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    Mute Neil T. Hynes
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    Sep 7th 2016, 2:10 PM

    You don’t need any prior third level education to join the gards . You can attend the garda training college after doing your leaving cert, and it only took two years then to get a degree from a college that’s not really a college at all . Garda Commissioner Noirin O’Sullivan’s online CV incorrectly suggested she had an honours degree in police management from the University of Limerick after training in the garda college, but that had to be corrected when brought to attention the fact the degree wasn’t recognised by U.L at all, or any college for that matter . I understand that the new programme offers a degree that is now recognised by the college. Point in question is that compared to people who have recognised degrees from colleges who accredit them, doesn’t entitle them to then then demand a higher wage in the work place just because they feel entitled to it; it doesn’t work that way out there. And what a degree in policing studies after two years is good for God only knows .

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    Mute Neil Farrell
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    Sep 7th 2016, 4:47 PM

    when they start doing their job properly, maybe then…

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    Mute nousername
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    Sep 7th 2016, 10:48 AM

    Hmmmm, someone appears to be missing here?

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    Mute Phil Swan
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    Sep 7th 2016, 7:52 PM

    When the Gardai support the people the people will support the Gardai. Very disappointed in recent years with the behaviour of SOME Gardai when people looked to protest and were met with brut force as a first option from some Guards. They put their allegiance with their bosses so let them see what reward they get for that.

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    Mute theupsidedown
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    Sep 7th 2016, 10:07 PM

    €23k is the basic salary. The reason the guards get allowances or “top-ups” as some have referred to them is because they have to work outside normal office opening hours. They do the hours they get paid the allowances. They don’t do the hours and they don’t get paid the allowances. This is why their allowances are not included when their pay is discussed. To do so would mean we are comparing their salary for a job including weird hours to a job/salary of a person who gets to go home at 5pm.

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