Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
CUTS TO CHILD benefit payments announced today will unfairly target precisely those families who are already most at risk of poverty and hardship, a charity has warned.
In today’s Budget, the Government announced cuts to welfare payments for families with three or more children. Monthly benefits will be reduced to €148 for the third child, down from €167.
For all subsequent children the monthly rate will fall to €160, where previously families had received up to €177. Further cuts are on the way with the payment to be “standardised” at €140 for all children in the next two years. Minister for Public Expenditure Brendan Howlin said the measure would save €43million.
Children’s charity Barnardos said the cut would unfairly target larger families who are already suffering disproportionately in the recession. Calling the measure “mean-spirited” and “unfair”, spokesperson June Tinsley told TheJournal.ie that Barnardos are “very concerned for larger families.”
“These families are already at higher risk of poverty, and this will push further families into deprivation,” she said. “If you add in cuts to the Back to School allowance and school transport schemes, larger families especially those in rural areas will be put under severe pressure.”
The Government also announced cuts of up to 25 per cent to the Back to School allowance, and the end of extra grants paid to parents of twins and triplets.
“For larger families, it could mean the difference between – are they able to pay their ESB bills? Are they able to buy school books for their children?” Tinsley added.
Minister for Social Protection Joan Burton said larger cuts had originally been slated for her Department, but she had succeeded in reducing the total spending reduction to €475million.
However, Sinn Féin TD Mary Lou McDonald said the welfare cuts would be “sucking €475million out of local economies”.
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
Seems fair… Crazy to provide incentives for large families.. If you want to have 8 kids then don’t expect society to pay.
I agree Alex.
What if you already have a large family and have lost your job or are in chronic poverty due to sickness, disability etc? There are families who must be in real shock tonight. Imagine, you’re a young widow or you’ve been deserted. Your income is primarily from social welfare, with perhaps one person in the household in low paid part-time work. You have a young adult (under 24) in the household, maybe with cystic fibrosis or autism, whose disability allowance is being cut by €88 per week! That’s a lot of money even for people on good income. The younger ones’ child benefit is cut. Next September the back to school allowance is cut. VAT up. And PRSI contributions to qualify for for the widows’ pension trebled…
One of the reasons child benefit was increased was because the tax allowance you once got for children was abolished most other civilised countries still have a tax allowance for children along with children allowance also along with the cuts the length of time you got childrens allowance was was also cut from 19 years (if child was still in the education system) to 18 years yet no one ever seems to bring up these points
we’ll need plenty of babies to pay for the mistakes of this generation; to provide us with a pension as the reserve fund was given to the banks. And to create a housing demand again. Bonuses should be dished out for large families.
Note my full arms.. vested interest or what.
3rd and subsequent children cost their parents less than the first two so why should they get more? Hand-me-downs, bulk buying food and the benefit of experience should make it cheaper to raise 3rd 4th etc children.
I know one who have 5 in school from junior infants to 2nd and another few at home, dad is on disability benefit with a serious graft allergy and kangaroo syndrome (short arms and deep pockets) but seems like he’s got enough energy in the bedroom. Their back to school allowance was about a grand and a half plus the regular children’s allowance…none of the kids have any of their books or proper winter jackets but dad has an iPhone 4.
Dead right to cut the bonuses for mass breeders. After the first 3 or 4 give vouchers for jonnies, food and clothes and make any cash dependent on the child regularly being at school, otherwise we’re subsidising intergenerational deprivation
Mass breeders sick comment Paul either you have no kids or your so right wing you have to look sideways to see something in front of you.
Spot on correct!!!!
I have kids, and I think that having upward of half a dozen and expecting the state to pay for them is a form of lunacy, or laziness. Or both.
I see nothing at all wrong with a flat rate per child, as is happening from hereonin.
paul we’re not all like that and people that are like that dont deserve kids let alone money
No problem with cuts when they are fair but yet 8 government department have increased their wages costs and expenses,travel and subsistence allowances also increased.Beat the recession get a government job.
The old recruitment embargo put paid to that, bit like pulling the ladder up behind them.
I still can’t see why it is not means tested or taxed instead of reducing it for those who need it most. Where there is a will there is a way. No point telling us that the computers don’t talk to each other. Why not tax everybody and then get them to prove they are exempt where necessary
Because there are ways of beating the means test. We have a baby boom at the moment… Hard times call for hard measures.
I can. Both parties are trying to hold onto votes. That and the expense to means test it would nullify paying the benefit. Don’t fool yourself, this budget is not a fiscal adjustment to right the books. This is playing around taking as much as possible while loosing as few votes as possible.
As for righting the books, we will never ever be able to repay what is owed, which by the Taoiseach’s own words is not our fault. But we are still paying. But not too much, sure that’s why we’ll vote for them next time. Utter delusional insanity.
Some say it would cost more to means test than the potential savings would reap. But perhaps it could be administered via Revenue on line where you must enter your ppsn and you qualify based on your previous years returns. Then revenue administer the payments.
Child Benefit should definitely be means tested. People are just going to have to re-engage in family planning. Where I’m living kids are dropping out of school, getting pregnant in the knowledge that the State will pick up the tab until the child(ren) reach 18 years. In the meantime they will probably be given a house, claim single parent allowance and then move the boyfriend in. I fully appreciate that there are genuine cases out there that deserve state assistance but I feel the system is being sucked dry and actually encourages the abuse of itself.
But in fairness you’d want to be completely stupid and uneducated having a child in this country now
Well Martina, I read there’s a baby boom at the moment!
Are more kids less expensive??
The department of education decided it would be a good idea to do away with books that could be sold on or bought second hand.. They introduced workbooks which must be bought new each year.. A waste of money, and paper..
Lots of schools have this crazy idea that the last year or two of primary they should change the uniform! Again, waste of money.
Schools expect “voluntary contributions” which they will hound the family for all year.
All this on top of feeding, clothing, footwear etc.. FYI, kids grow fast..
I don’t have kids, but my sister has 5. Her husband was laid off 2 years ago (long after the last one was born) and the employment prospects where they live (they moved to Wexford because of house prices closer to Dublin) are non existent.. They WERE able to afford their kids – just like all you judgemental twats suggest, they just didn’t count on the company my brother in law worked for being given a grant to move elsewhere leaving them up shit creek..
You people making your assumptions on those forced into claiming state aid make me sick.
But keep throwing stones in your glass houses, what goes around comes around.. Hope you have a thick enough skin to deal with being trapped in the system like so many others have been – because it could happen to you..
I could not have put it better myself . Some people are just so arrogant in their asumptions on the reasons children are born . It is insulting and ignorant .and to think that most of the commentators have parents….you would think that you were reared in test tubes til you were ready to go and work…For Goodness sake , get a grip people ,children are our future .
Do people not realize how lucky we are to live in such a wonderful country where we get such generous welfare payments. Do they not realize that 30,000 children die of hunger every day in Africa? Why not have gratitude for what we have instead of money and complaining all the time.
Cost of living is a serious cause of why SW is higher than our neighbours and then theres all the stealth taxes, but this country has one thing going for it it’s does not make 7/8 yr olds go around with an ak47 , each country gets money it’s what it does with it which shows.
It amazes me how people are so quick to snipe at each other with every austerity budget that the Irish government imposes on us. In particular, some of the comments I have seen towards people on any form of social welfare have been absolutely horrible. People who have to rely on rent allowance are not a homogenous mass, neither are those on any of the state benefits. They are all individuals with unique circumstances, but they all have one thing in common, they are tight roping precariously on the abject poverty threshold. People seem very quick to forget that it is not the average Irish citizen who is imposing these cuts, these cuts are from a banking crisis which was, indulged, aided and abetted by the political and banking class in Ireland, not the citizens. I’m sure that the government is only too delighted that the Irish people are turning on each other instead of them.
I’d make one point on that Rory. As I understand it we ran up more of a sovereign deficit in the first three years of the recession than we ever have or will put into the banks. And even more cogent, the overall deficit by the time we break even will be made up of something in the region of 70% plus sovereign, and the rest of it lost through bank recapitalisations etc. The sad fact is, the unsecured (senior) bondholder debt has already been subsumed into our sovereign debt, this having been achieved quietly, and without fanfare, by Brian Lenihan, as part of one of the guarantee extensions, I don’t remember which one.
Given that we’re part of a bailout now anyway, I don’t see an issue with writing down junior bondholder debt, I really don’t think, for the amount it represents, that the markets will care a whole lot in 2015 anyway.
In my opinion, the banks, reckless bastards that they were, caused and are causing two major problems for us, the debt they placed on our shoulders being the third;
-The Pension Reserve Fund was raided. if we still had that, it would be a useful war chest for capital expenditure and job creation initiatives. All those babies been born right now or in the last two or three years are gonna need schools, for example.
-The credit crunch is stifling business, and new startups, again, which is hampering job creation.
Sadly, our deficit is the problem, followed by the terms of repayment or maintenance-which impact on our budget every year. And our deficit is so high because our stagnant economy cannot support job creation. Couple that with the fact that FF fostered a totally unsustainable model centred around construction, and you’re down to a two fold approach, retraining, and nurturing any and all job creation initiatives possible.
It remains to be seen whether they’ll manage either or both.
I completely agree..everyone is giving out to each other when they should be focusing on the government.
@ Ryan: Great analysis. I’m sick of making the point that while the bank bailout led to the Troika bailout, an unsustainable economic model (built mostly on construction taxes) would still have led to this austerity (or spending what is taken in).
Anybody that has a child with childrens allowance in mind should have the child taken off them
martin..you accused me of dreaming of the cb payment while knovking woodworm out of headboard on a previous thread on this topic. you need to grow up..where is your proof that people say..hmm lets have child and party!
Martin , sometimes I don’t know if you are genuinely Thick or just thoughtless in your comments,or maybe you are just doing it to wind people up .
@Colm Mooney;I never accused you of dreaming anything, quite the opposite in fact, i suggested you should have thought of the consequences of your actions.
Again i Never said “people say..hmm lets have child and party!” i said if some has a child for the purposes of drawing down benifits they should have the child taken off them.
sorry if my comments dont quite fit in with your cause. but if it makes you feeel more secure in your martyrdom go right ahead and tweak them to suit yourself.
@Eileen Gabbet : none of the above, which one do you find offensive precisely
MARTIN mc CORMACK #
1)Anybody that has a child with childrens allowance in mind should have the child taken off them
2) rich kids
3)there lots of people traipsing all over the world to buy children, the call it foreign asdoption, i’m sure they would only be too glad to take them on
These comments are from this thread ,to be honest i don’t know to be amused ore annoyed . My youngest son has not met his father , he wanted me to abort him…. Then when my son was born a close relative told me that I should have given him up for adoption…. Obviously I did not do either and Yes child benefit was a huge asset to me , and even if I didn’t receive it I would still have my son with me. I have never received social welfare as I have always been fortunate to work and pay my way. Neither have I received child maintenance from this ”man”, altho it took me four years to have his name on my son’s birth certificate.So yes I am very proud to be me and have the best children who are a great joy to me . I reckon Martin you do not think about what you write and for the sake of mutual agreement I will choose to think you amusing as I do not think you are malicious.
1) i repeat anybody that has a child should have the child taken off them, as the are not fit parents,, i dont see how that applies to you
2) i think that was in reply to some clown that stated that his kids had just had money grabbed from their hands by a wealthy person driving a merc. Which of course is a total load of bulldung, even if it happened how did he know the person was rich or even owned the car
3) there are people traipsing all over the world traipsing all over the world to adopt children. Of course it’s called adoption because they only pay fees to intermediaries to bribe officials and buy some little thing for the parents or the orphanage the come out of, oddly enough like our orphanages nobopdy ever notices that one or probably both of the orphans parents may e alive. The destination of choice changes from year to year as country after country tighten up their regulations.
Of course it’s not nice to say any of this stuff. if it makes you feel better by all means you can think that I dont think about what I’m saying or that it is amusing, but wont change the facts
Martin..the comment about the mercedes was..wait for it…sarcasm..person in mercedes stands for govt minister…you should get out more!
Martin
I take back what I said , You are not unthinking , you are not amusing . You are Malicious !
@ Com mooney, i gathered that, as was my reply RICH KIDS, it all just seems to have went over eileens head.
to be honest i need to stay in more, this place is gas and not half as hard on the liver. keep on knocking
Martin Mc Cormack @ Your arrogance is beneath my contempt , and nothing goes over my head .
Rory, I agree with alot of what you said but there is widespread abuse of the system. The Government acknowledges it but does little about it which results in cuts on the people that deserve it and the people that don’t. For the last 3 years everyone has blamed Bertie, Cowan and the banks, builders, speculators. Ofcourse, they have to accept the lions share of the blame but as individuals we must start accepting responsibilities for decisions we made or will make otherwise we’ll never move on. I don’t have kids because I can’t afford to provide the life and opportunities I would like for them. In my opinion having kids is a choice, not a consequence that the state should pick up the tab for.
I’m sure a lot of people who had kids during the “good times” a few years back thought they could afford to provide the life and opportunities they wanted for their kids. Guess what? things changed, but one thing never changes and that’s the fact that those who can least afford it are targeted over and over again while the gap between rich and poor widens further.
@Rommell
My point is the Gov should be sending out the message that the welfare system is a means of last resort for people who find themselves in a situation due to extraordinary circumstances. It shouldn’t be a lifestyle choice.
Ok i agree but they shouldnt have dished it out to us then take it back then make us live with out it…. if we never had it we’d never have needed it …. but it was given to us now we DO need it …. so they’ve screwed us over………. i agree wit most of the budget but why should be suffer and they getting pay rises !!!
In fairness a lot of that was FFs tactic of buying elections
True but watch how many red thumbs you get Rory.Well done to the government divide and conquer works every time
oh theres no point moaning any more its done and we just have to deal with it and adjust our budget ………
I think all who say means test the child benefit are mad how are u going to means test a child of any age ???? It’s for the children , and if you think €140 per month covers everything , you need to be in st Brendan’s
Its not supposed to cover everything!! I depend on my children’s allowance to pay towards my mortgage & really appreciate it. However, in comparison to other countries it is very high. We’ve all gotten used to it & therefore depend heavily on it.
of course it’s meant to cover everything, you dont expect people to spend their own money on their children do you?
Agree with you that it shouldn’t be a lifestyle choice, but there are a lot of people out there (myself included, 2 children so not affected this time) who have come to rely on the CA payment just to get by. They should put much more effort into detecting the fraud which exists in the SW system. I do suspect that the levels of fraud are not quite as high as some would have us believe though
sorry should have linked to MisterWriteNow
What would we do with the children taken off people? The healthcare budget has been cut as are frontline childcare services.
there lots of people traipsing all over the world to buy children, the call it foreign asdoption, i’m sure they would only be too glad to take them on
i think its discusting what they have done, yes we all choose to have our children but the goverment also chose to giv us the money an then think because they gave it to us they can just take it back , for the families that rent there homes are also going to struggle as alot of people use their cb to pay that an do ya think theiir landlords are going to have sympathey ,, but do they care no ,, would they prefer if we were all homeless so they could look down on us some more ,, could they not have means tested it rather than making the poor poorer an the rich just as rich its discusting, then again why would they means test it that way they might actually notice a reduction in there own arse pockets for those who have children an for thoses who dont sure why the hell do they care it doesnt affect the ones who have their pretty little homes with no worries ,,, god forbid they would loose anything . and before anybody thinks it i only have 2 children so its not affecting me but it doesnt make me any less mad i think what they are doing is a disgrace . well ill tell you something for nothing i will never vote for stupid un truthful lies ,
Please explain why you think the first child should get €140 a month while the third and fourth get €167 and the fifth onward get €177. Surely economies of scale are there after the first child? And what logical reason is there for twins getting 1.5 times the payment (€210 each)?
Also it was the last government, FF etc, who increased the child benefit rates leading to a total spend of €2.5bn a year.
As was said above, only the most needy should depend on welfare.
….or why you think it is only people who rent their homes are affected? I have two children on CB I own my own home (well still paying a mortgage) And I am a single parent .I am sick of the poor me attitude some people have when they assume all lone parents are on social welfare and living in social housing …. My two older children went to college and are working in this country . Am I fortunate , maybe, but it felt like bloody hard work over the years .There were times during the boom years I had no money for a trip to the cinema , let alone a holiday… It is called LIFE and taking responsibility.People should get over this sense of entitlement .and get on with what they have to do .My sympathy lies with ‘the new poor’ the ones who were in well paid jobs and then capput jobs gone and every thing crashes down .
2011
MARCH
The Government announces the banking sector is to be recapitalised by a further €24 billion and restructured around two core retail banks. This is the fifth attempt to recapitalise the banks and brings the total cost of bailing out the sector from €46 billion to €70 billion.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0930/breaking38.html
White collar crime more than usually always goes unpunished..
It’s all very well saying that we are all collectively responsible now for all this debt…
But who was in charge and who created the crisis?..
It happened because of reckless lending, laissez faire regulation, greed,incompetence, cronyism and corruption amongst the financial and political class in Ireland throughout the Celtic Tiger years..
The average Joe citizen of Ireland did not cause this crisis..
Even Enda Kenny explicitly stated that on his state of the nation speech…
martin..no martyrdom here..im on.record as ssting child benefit should be means tested..taxed at lower rate and withdrawn from thise on over 150k! no tweaking of your contemptuous comments btw..just cindensed version.of their thrust(no pun.intended!) oh and the consequences of my actions……3 beautiful loving children who make my life worth living.
Martin …. get a life!
Anybody hear the man on RTE1 news at lunchtime today, living in Monaghan has 11 children under 13 , will be down 80 Euro a month. works at airport police in dublin which must cost a packet to commute. In the name of god has anybody in monaghan got a burdizzo
Some rich guy in a merc just drove past my kids and snatched money from their tiny hands!
rich kids
Is it wise to have money in tiny childrens hands, how do you know the driver was rich, it might even have been a stolen car. Did you get the reg and call the guards
As the cake gets smaller its time for better off to show Leadership and some Moral courage towards the Less well off and give back CA and likewise Med Cards issued to well off o70′s !!! or is greed what’s left in our Irish souls
Dam that predictive text
have your say