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THANKS FOR JOINING our live video and text coverage from Leinster House as Michael Noonan announces measures to raise €1.6 billion in new taxes and other revenue.
The commentary below updates automatically – there’s no need to reload. Feel free to get in touch via our Facebook, via Twitter @thejournal_ie, or in the comments field below.
The official Budget 2012 announcement from Finance Minister Michael Noonan doesn’t kick off until 15.45 but we thought we would bring you the serious news first: the colour of Noonan’s tie. It was a spotted wine affair yesterday (see the main pic here) but then again, he wasn’t under the spotlight like Brendan Howlin was.
Today, though, is a different matter. Read ‘Budget Day neckties… just what do they mean?’ to figure out what Noonan is signalling to us by the colour he drapes around his collar today. (We can reliably assume he won’t be wearing his novelty Homer Simpson tie…)
If you’re not so fussed about the tie, catch up with all the Budget 2012 leaks so far today here.
This just in. Noonan’s tie, as caught on RTÉ’s video cameras JUST THIS MINUTE. It’s yellow and stripey. Draw your own conclusions.
Are you watching, Minister Noonan? Julien Behal of Press Association Images spotted this graffiti in the Liberties in Dublin today:
Aoife Barry has asked that we post this video of a fox sticking his tongue out at the Budget 2012 measures. Glad to oblige, Aoife.
Michael Noonan has set up his Budget announcement with reference to Ireland being “given back her purse” after the Treaty in the 1920s. Fianna Fáil and the Greens being given the blame for giving away the purse again.
Noonan’s Government colleagues in Labour and Fine Gael have started a good road back to creating jobs and “prudent” management to getting the country back to credibility internationally, he says.
He claims “a gradual recovery” has begun to take hold of the country. “All forecasters agree growth will be significantly stronger in 2013″.
The maintenance of the 12.5 per cent corporate tax rate also being highlighted as an achievement.
Two new schemes being announced:
New Special Assignee Relief Programme to attract jobs here.
Foreign Earnings Deduction will be available where an individual “spends 60 days a year developing markets in Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa”, the so-called BRIC countries.
The first €100,000 of R&D development money be allowed in tax credits for the purpose of encouraging this area. Outsourcing arrangements for R&D will be targeted in this and some portion will be allowed to reward key employees in R&D; corporate tax exemption available in 2012, 2013, 2014.
Smaller companies will be able to take advantage of that aforementioned deduction.
On agriculture, he says he will be announcing stamp duty reduction to the transfer of commercial property but also to farmland. He will also modifying capital gains tax for the transfer of farms before a farmer reaches the age of 66 to get people to hand over their farms earlier rather than later. There will be a stock relief rate to continue to aid farming practices.
He’s standing by the 9 per cent VAT rate on tourism services to encourage growth.
Ryanair and Aer Lingus getting a bit of a swipe for not being quite so co-operative in the Government’s efforts to stoke tourism.
How do you solve a problem like our property crisis? Noonan is musing on what NOT to do, a la construction industry collapse of last few years.
His solution to restore confidence and activity in construction>
Stamp duty to go from 6 per cent to 2 per cent from midnight tonight on commercial property including farmland.
Capital Gains Tax incentive on commercial property from midnight tonight to end 2013 – full break from it if you hold on to the property for seven years.
On upward-only rent reviews – NAMA is telling him that it has a policy guidance that it will publish TODAY. Apparently the policy allows NAMA to intervene when rent shown to be above current market conditions.
Mortgage Interest Relief – for those who bought between 2004-2008, mortgage tax relief to be increased to 30 per cent for first-time buyers who bought in that period.
However, mortgage relief will be not available if you buy after the end of 2012 and it will be fully abolished from 2018.
Buying in 2012? Mortgage rent relief will be available for first-time buyers at 25 per cent; it will be 15 per cent for non first-time buyers from (instead of 10 percent advocated last year).
On mortgage arrears, Noonan says that small-scale investors are more at risk.
A property relief of 5 per cent will be available to those with an annual gross income over €100,000; but the reliefs in Section 23 will not be terminated for those with a gross income under €100,000.
Investors will not be allowed to begin tax reliefs scheme after 1 Jan 2012. Where the tax scheme ends before 2015, no carry forward will be allowed.
The two pillar banks of Ireland have been given lending targets – the hope is that mortgage credit is made available so people can take advantage of the mortgage relief he announced today.
The General Government Deficit for this year will be 10.1 per cent of GDP – this is less than the 10.6 set by troika.
In 2012, the aim will be 8.6 per cent of GDP.
He is announcing €1bn worth of tax measures today.
There will BE NO INCREASE IN INCOME TAX.
“Wages and salaries in January will be no lower than wages and salaries in December”: Michael Noonan.
Does this reassure you? Tell us below in the comments section.
He believes income tax and PRSI are taxes on jobs and that indirect taxes (VAT, capital taxes) hurt jobs creation less.
The top 5 per cent of high income earners pay 44 per cent of the tax apparently.
The Universal Social Charge – as a “fairness measure” – will change to “help the low-paid, part-time and seasonal workers”.
From 1 Jan 2012, the exemption bar will be raised from €4,004 to €10,036. This brings 330,000 out of paying the USC.
The USC will be collected on a cumulative basis next year so no possibility of underpayment.
VAT was to be 1 per cent in 2013 and one in 2014 – this increase is all going to be introduced in 2012. But he has vowed that this new 23 per cent rate will not be raised again in the life of this Government.
The 9 per cent VAT on home repairs will remain and central heating fuel will remain at 13.5 per cent.
He is addressing the differential between Northern Ireland and Republic VAT rates – says that at 3 per cent different now, it’s not that bad. He says it was 3.5 per cent of a difference at one point so that he doesn’t expect people to flit off to the North for their shopping. Flit being my word, not Noonan’s naturally.
Capital gains tax raised from 25 to30 per cent
DIRT will go from 27 to 30 per cent
Removal of remaining 50 per cent employer PRSI relief on employee pensions
Increasing the national distribuition on ARFs (pension schemes) to 6 per cent
Increasing the rate of tax on the transfer of an ARF on death of child over 21 from 20 per cent to 30 per cent
Tax exiles will not be able to avoid domicile tax by renouncing their citizenship
On fuels – petrol and diesel carbon tax to go up from €15 to €20 per tonne at midnight tonight – this means increases of around 1.3 cent per litre, before the VAT increase;
tax on other fuels won’t go up until May 2012;
no tax increase on peat/coal/briquettes
VAT exempt on farmers buying and installing wind turbines from 1 January 2012
The €100 household levy for property owners will only apply to certain categories and will be payable in installments. People stuck in ghost estates for example won’t have to pay it.
There will be some change in VRT in terms of those being imported here.
No more tax exemption for first 36 days of occupational absenteeism. Joan Burton is going to bring in measures next year to look at public service absenteeism.
An extra 25 cents is to be brought in on cigarettes – but no extra excise on alcohol although it will be hit by the VAT increase.
Betting intermediaries duty to be brought in.
Now Noonan is reiterating his Goverment’s achievements as they see them – a “refocus on fairness” by reversing the minimum wage cut; the reduction of bailout interest rate; their focus on growth and employment.
He also adds a positive comment on Brian Lenihan to end his Budget announcement.
Michael McGrath, FF’s Finance spokesperson is first to speak in Opposition. He thanks Noonan for the comments on Lenihan and says he remains an “inspiration” to him.
This isn’t Opposition v Government, he says. We all want to give people hope and a better country.
He says that this Government has now accepted responsibility and that they can no longer hide behind the finger-pointing at FF-Green.
Michael McGrath now getting into whether the “difficult choices” made by Noonan, Howlin and co. are the RIGHT decisions.
The EU/IMF didn’t tell this Government to cut child benefit for third child and over/ the relief on medical prescriptions/ on fuel allowance, he says.
McGrath has 40 minutes on the floor by the way. He’s got plenty of time to get the digs in. And here they come… we are the “true republican party” and will not adopt a negative, self-serving and corrosive position in Opposition, says Michael McGrath.
“This is a great country” and we’ll get through the bad times. Says McGrath.
More of what we already know – high unemployment, emigration, families struggling.
But McGrath says that the devil will be in the detail in this Budget – especially for those on social welfare, widows, pensioners of the future.
Michéal Martin is trying to get order for Michael McGrath to speak. “Will ye let somebody speak?”
McGrath says the cuts on young people on disability allowance is profoundly unfair.
On education cuts, Ruairi Quinn (Education Minister) is shaking his head at McGrath’s contention that cuts in his department is going to hurt young people.
Ouch. McGrath hitting the Government where it hurts – in their Jobs Initiative. Says despite its announcement in May 2011, there are more people on the Live Register now than there where when Fine Gael-Labour came into power.
He’s all about the R&D measures though (although says, of course, we in Fianna Fáil had them in our pre-Budget submission too).
He says “long gone is talk of 100,000 new jobs”.
Labour’s Aodhán Ó Ríordáin has told TheJournal.ie that this Budget announcement shows “big wins on the universal social charge, tax exiles and mortgage relief”.
Back in the Dáil, Michael McGrath is talking about the VAT increases and child benefit cuts, the mortgage interest supplement fund cut (from yesterday), fuel hikes etc. – and using a young family as a case study, says it will hit them by hundreds of euro a month.
Basically, McGrath making the point that it’s all well and good to say that income tax hasn’t been cut and income will be the same in January as it will in December when indirect taxes leave them with so much less in their pocket.
By the way, have you seen Michael Noonan’s speech as pictured in a word cloud? Tax, property, VAT, income and NAMA all feature strongly…
VAT increase is going to affect things that aren’t luxuries says Michael McGrath – mobile and landline charges, car parking, diesel, oil, toothpaste are some of the examples he gives. How is this going to get people back in the shops, buying things again? (Er, McGrath’s question, not mine).
If you would like to see the MAIN POINTS of the Budget document just revealed, Hugh O’Connell has them all here in one handy guide for you.
The “uncertainty” on upward-only rent agreements is being highlighted by Michael McGrath – he’s glad that a decision has been made on it (for NAMA to look at it) but says that nine months of lack of clarity has created a stasis in commercial property.
So who has to pay the €100 household charge and where is it headed? McGrath wants to know if a flat tax is really equitable – and if people in mortgage arrears and widows and carers to pay it too.
McGrath is told by Leas Ceann Comhairle that his time is also up.
The whole of Michael Noonan’s Budget 2012 announcement can be read here.
Sinn Féin’s Pearse Doherty has his 40 minutes now. He doesn’t want “shouting from the sidelines”. He says his party’s “costed” Budget submission had many good choices but that this Government has “promised much/delivered little”.
Entrepreneurship is alive and well at the Petit Café on Kildare Street outside Leinster House today. Thanks to Niall Carson of PA Wire images for this one:
Pearse Doherty, meanwhile, is talking about the Government going after children, lone parents, carers and the disabled. And that’s in just one department he says. He claims that for a full year, the social welfare cuts are €811m.
He says he knows now what to buy them for Christmas – a calculator – that their figures in these cuts to frontline services in health, education and social welfare are €40m out. Or as he calls it, the Kevin Cardiff School of Economics.
A message from the Budget-free zone of Poetry Ireland. Ah, that’s nice.
Is Michael Noonan “blushing” as Pearse Doherty suggests in the Dáil because he announced a .3 per cent downgrade in growth for next year?
Pearse Doherty is bringing in his own family’s story about having to emigrate for work in the past and the lack of care for the position of families facing this position today.
Pearse Doherty has been asked to put his remarks through the Leas Ceann Comhairle – he had been addressing Taoiseach Enda Kenny directly, against the etiquette of the House in such speeches.
Pearse Doherty is putting forward some more specific changes to target the wealthy – that target revenue without attacking the economy, he says – he’s being a great deal more specific than Michael McGrath of FF was, to be fair.
Patrick Nulty, Labour TD, has written exclusively for TheJournal.ie on why he is going to vote against Budget 2012.
Pearse Doherty is accusing FG/Labour of taking the same “minimalist approach” as FF towards people struggling with mortgage arrears.
Pearse Doherty says that his party has met the troika and that they were open to whatever fiscal changes they could suggest for the Budget as long as the targets were met.
He ends on an anecdote about a homeless man who died of hypothermia on the streets of Dublin last night. Does that affect you, Taoiseach Kenny, he asks?
Mick Wallace is no standing up to speak on behalf of the unemployed, the young and the demoralised parents of the young. He understands the anger of people who might not even be let in the door of a bank, having to pay for bankers’ mistakes.
Mick Wallace would rather poor in La Paz, Bolivia than poor in Dublin, Ireland.
He feels Sarkozy and Merkel are calling our shots now and that there has been a huge transfer of power in the EU. The principle was that “the strong would help the weaker” he said and that it worked for some years here – but it’s not the case now.
Mick Wallace is quoting this thinkpiece from Larry Elliott of The Guardian. The piece is titled, ‘The emergence of the Frankfurt Group has turned back the democratic clock’. It’s safe to say that while Wallace is “pro-European”, as he has just described himself, he is worried about the direction the EU is taking.
Wallace is worried about the closure of Garda stations, Army barracks, post office branches, nursing homes. “What’s it going to be like living in this country in ten years’ time if we keep going this way?”
Mick Wallace being told to wrap up his comments – he’s finishing on his thoughts on what is being expected of TDs – people want them to “give a damn” and not allow the country be run by bankers and Europe he says.
Richard Boyd Barrett is speaking now and saying that the Government were trying to be clever, introducing “tokens”, “tricks of the eye” to dress up a “cruel and stupid” Budget. He says it attacks the young, the poor and the struggling to protect the bankers and the super-wealthy.
The fuel allowance cuts will mean the difference between life and death – we had nearly 2,000 winter weather-related deaths in the elderly last year, he says.
Rent allowance “is a base-line social welfare cut”, he says, despite the government’s assertion. This is a “nasty, regressive cut” which will push more people into poverty. He also criticises the increased third-level registration fee, reduced back-to-education allowances, and the “slaughter of jobs”.
Richard Boyd Barrett referring to the €100 property tax referring to it as a poll tax. Is he the first person to put that moniker on it today?
His main point about getting so much of the revenue in this Budget from VAT, indirect life taxes, social welfare etc. means that those who will pay for this Budget will be the ordinary citizen and the small business.
Bit of #Budget12 weariness from Darragh Farrelly on Twitter. We hear you, Darragh.
Richard Boyd Barrett ends with the conclusion that there was an alternative to not be so punitive on the poor and to penalise the rich but they chose not to take it.
Shane Ross is welcoming some efforts in the Budget, for example, the mortgage relief. But he is saying that they have taken on the “conservative mantles” of Fianna Fáil and claims that the diktat for this Budget is coming from a “series of strong external forces”.
Ross is looking towards the weekend and the EU meeting on Friday – he says that this Budget is to lead us into the idea of fiscal unity and being under the thumb of the troika for the next few years.
In other news, Michael Noonan appears to have changed the yellow stripey tie he was wearing for the Dáil announcement. Evening wear? Missed his mouth in the Dáil canteen? Got a bit hot in the Oireachtas chamber? Who knows:
Gavan Reilly reports that in the Seanad – where they are currently also debating the Budget – FF’s leader Darragh O’Brien points out that the €250 increase in student registration fees won’t mean extra funding for colleges – because their funding is being cut back by the equivalent amount.
Shane Ross is wondering what has happened to the promised cut of the quangos. He asks Enda Kenny if he remembers the streamlining document of a little while ago. Enda Kenny gives a nod. We think that means that he does.
Shane Ross is calling on the Taoiseach to bring a strong arm to his EU meeting.
Shane Ross is also bringing a strong arm down on the desktop in front of him, creating rather a cacophony of microphone interference.
But back to his point – if Enda puts his point across at the EU, he might be able to come back and make some amendments to the Budget. So Ross figures.
Adjournment now to the Dáil for 30 minutes.
Over on Newstalk’s The Right Hook (with Shane Coleman interviewing) right now, Finance Minister Michael Noonan is saying that he believes the property market is “bottoming out” and between that and his announcements on stamp duty today, buyers might jump in this coming year.
Over in the Seanad, Gavan Reilly reports that Fine Gael senator Michael D’Arcy, on the increased third-level registration fee, said: “He (Quinn) shouldn’t have signed what he signed with the students… perhaps he shouldn’t. Perhaps that was a mistake.” He goes on to compare the Irish reg fee with UK tuition fees.
Right. If you are interested in viewing a live video stream of the press conference at Government buildings coming up at 7pm, simply reload this liveblog and it will automatically embed at the top.
We’ll be blogging the action for you anyway if you can’t turn up the volume wherever you are.
The press conference with Finance Minister Michael Noonan has kicked off at Government buildings.
Noonan has been asked about the “modest growth” forecast for the country for 2012. He is saying that employment is the massive priority and that so many of the job losses came in the construction industry, that must be a target.
He’s mentioning Keynesian economics. They won’t work here, he says. We can’t cut and tax our way out of this – we have to grow the economy in the successful sectors, eg, exports, agriculture.
But we also have to look after the sectors that aren’t performing so well.
He says everyone has a “rainy day mentality” and our savings proportion is too high. He’s trying to enourage movement in commercial and residential property as a result.
Michael Noonan has said of his package of stamp duty etc. to drive property sales that he “doesn’t know if it will work or not”.
Justin McCarthy of Today FM asks if the accusation Noonan made of last year’s Government that they were a puppet government bringing a puppet budget forward could not also be levelled against him this year.
Noonan is saying that, will all respect to Brian Lenihan, he simply had no choice but to make a certain adjustment last year because of the November bailout. Noonan believes he had more leeway this year.
On Patrick Nulty’s decision to vote against Budget 2012, Noonan says that he hardly knows him and that it’s for the Labour Party to deal with him. He says he’s sorry to lose his support for the Government though.
Noonan is being asked if his mortgage relief/stamp duty stimulus package is not blowing up another property bubble. Which, lest we forget, is what got us into trouble in the first place.
Noonan thinks not. He thinks the property sales sector/construction is well below sustainable level. It shouldn’t be scapegoated he said.
Michael Noonan is addressing the absenteeism issue – he says it is a “very big problem in the public sector”. Because of the treatment of illness benefit for tax purposes, you can end up with more income in your pocket if you stay at home, he says. Interesting scenario if you think about it.
Back in the Dáil, Gavan Reilly reports that they’ve begun debates on the financial resolutions – starting with the 25c hike on cigarettes. Mattie McGrath has complained that he wouldn’t get a chance to contribute.
Ceann Comhairle Seán Barrett said he had been alternating between speakers in favour and against each move – causing Mattie to observe: “I’d be worried your chair is going to fall over with how much you’re going to one side.”
A vote has been called on that measure, by the way, with Joe Higgins opposing it – they’ll be voting in 10 minutes or so.
The reason we reduced the economic growth rate for 2012, says Michael Noonan at HIS press conference, is because of the current economic volatility.
On the other hand, if the eurozone gets back on a “level keel”, Noonan wouldn’t be surprised if he was marking up the growth rate “by Easter”.
Interesting clarification there about the Capital Gains Tax guarantee for property as long as you don’t sell it for seven years. Does this apply to ‘property’ property, or all assets? Eg, Could you buy a painting, hold onto it for seven years and then flip it?
Yes, says Noonan, it applies to all assets. So property in the most general sense then.
NAMA needs to move on to how best to dispose and manage the assets now, says Noonan, and they may need some expert advisors on that. His introduction of advisors to himself in this area is allowed under law, he says.
NAMA has done a good job says Noonan – but it’s time to move on to getting a good return for the taxpayer.
Michael Noonan: I think the pensions industry needs a breather. I’m not going to do what the troika wants this year and pull the top rate of relief down to the standard tax rate. I’m going to get the industry in to talk about this. He agrees with David Begg on investing public sector pensions in Irish enterprise.
Noonan feeling under no pressure to adjust the forecast for future budgets at this point. He claims it was said to him in radio interviews that he should be worried, politically, about introducing a “soft” budget this year because it will mean he has to make harder measures down the line.
Noonan disagrees with that interpretation. He says this was a very hard budget.
He’s also not worried about a downgrade of eurozone countries by S&P because when you’re in a bailout programme, you’re “kinda sheltering from the storm”. It’s not focused on us particularly but he does think that if everyone goes down, we’re all in trouble.
On tax exiles, he says Revenue suggests most tax exiles have dual citizenship and they were prepared to cancel out their Irish citizenship to avoid paying the €200,000.
He’s changing that to a “one-test regime” – if you’re domiciled here, you pay the tax. He reckons only 14 or 15 people paid that tax last year. “If you’re born on the rock, you’re from the rock”. So now.
While Michael Noonan wraps up a very civil press conference at Government buildings, this was the scene outside Leinster House as some protestors gathered. Courtesy of www.wsm.ie.
Back in the Dáil, the motion on the 25 cent hike on a box of cigarettes has been passed.
Government Chief Whip Paul Kehoe is arguing that the Dáil has to pass all resolutions by midnight tonight and that’s why he wants discussion time on them reduced. Motion is carried.
If you like the Read Me section of TheJournal.ie, where we give a platform to people with interesting viewpoints and passions, you’ll like this take on Budget 2012 by some of our previous contributors. Aaron McKenna has found some interesting anomalies in the line items in the Department of Social Welfare cuts, for example.
… Or maybe you would like to know if Budget 2012 really will help first-time buyers and sort out the property market…
Is the 25 cent hike on cigarettes going to work?
Find out how fuel tax increases “will affect almost all households and businesses”.
But most importantly, HOW MUCH WILL BUDGET 2012 COST YOU?
Find out by using TheJournal.ie’s Budget Calculator by clicking here.
We’re closing the liveblog now while the Dáil goes through the motions of passing the various proposals of Budget 2012 but we’ll be keeping you updated on reaction, analysis and how our readers fared in Budget 2012 throughout the evening so keep checking in with TheJournal.ie.
Thanks for keeping us company so far.
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Unless there is a public lynching of tom mc McFeeny this will never be balanced and fair.
If Dublin City Council are going to make the necessary repairs why to the homeowners need new mortgages to move? What about the many people living in unfinished estates, tiny apts with growing families, uninsulated homes, poorly built homes etc… Where is their second chance? This is grossly unfair that Priory Hall is singled out for help. Sends the message that suicide works and this may be enough to convince vulnerable people that their family may be better off with them dead. This is certainly true in the case of Priory Hall. In all likelihood the residents will be able to buy somewhere bigger & better much cheaper than what they paid for the apt in Priory. Why does everyone not get this chance?
And that, Shaun The Sheep is *exactly* why the Government (correctly) didn’t want to get involved. It opens up another ‘army deafness’ situation.
Furthermore I can guarantee you that the Priory Hall people will be disappointed as the expectations have been allowed run and run
How did they get the banks to agree to this write off?
I have a much more simple approach. DCC evacuated them, so DCC should have remedied all the problems and then moved them back in. DCC should have then sought reimbursment from McFeely through the courts.
I now envisage a situation where DCC will not get involved if there are problems of this nature with any other developments.
@ Mark: As far as I understand it, McFeeley is seeking to be declared bankrupt in the UK so DCC would have had no chance of getting the money they spent on repairs back – leaving them with a massive €10m+ gap in their finances.
My big concern is the precedent that has been created here, with Government intervention. When, not if, other dodgy places like Priory Hall arise, those people will expect similar treatment by central government. All of this will come at great cost to taxpayers.
Well done Phil, just took a bloke to top himself for you to get the finger out….
Not the govts problem. Issue is one of contract law that the govt have no business getting involved in. This will open flood gates for claims. “Mr Minister, the car I bought is actually a wreck. Will you take it off my hands, wipe out my loan, and force a bank to give me a new loan to buy a bigger, better, newer car?”
fair to whom? Those that bought into this disaster are being given an out, many years too late, I may add. Yet none of the underlying causes of this deathtrap have been addressed. The list of trusted professionals that failed to do their jobs but still signed off on this development and then accepted payment for work not done, is truly shocking. None have been held accountable by law or by their own professional organisations (reveals how respectable theses organisations really are).
@Doc. I agree about holding the “professionals” involved in this mess to account. Regulation is useless without enforcement.
Shaun – the government are not responsible for ensuring cars are safe before purchase. Their agencies ARE responsible for fire safety checks prior to buildings being signed off as safe. Didn’t happen here, therefore it is the governments problem. The majority of taxpayers have no issue with their money being used to help these people.
Not just the professionals. In the end it is up to the local authorities to ensure that building regs are adhered to. By allowing the practice of just signing off on whatever paperwork was presented, without onsite inspection or verification, the local authorities are absolutely culpable here too.
Since the local authorities act under the auspices of the Dept of the Environment, they can’t be considered entirely off the hook either. So, while it is the tax-payer who gets landed with the bill, as always, it is the authorities who are the blame as much as anyone.
Of course most of all it’s the likes of McFeeny who bear the brunt of the blame. He is one of many who worked a system which might have been (maybe was, over champers in the Galway tent) specifically created by the authorities to allow the lowest standards to flourish and for builders to get away with murder.
Yes, there are more Priory Halls, yes, the whole pyrite thing will eventually need to be dealt with too, yes, we will almost certainly, as tax payers, end up footing many more bills like this. The toxic legacy of the decade of insanity that was not just allowed to continue but was stoked and fuelled by, mostly, the Fianna Fail government will last a long, long time. We should all remember that when they land on the doorsteps spouting their ludicrous crap about change come election time.
sale of goods act, makes the Government responsible for ensuring cars are fit for purpose. however citizens were told that normal consumer rights legislation did not apply in this case. None of those involved have taken responsibility, Homebond refused to honour their guarantee, that the structure was sound. It must make people all over Ireland feel safe to know their Homebond isn’t worth a shite.
@Dennis, I wonder exactly which professional organisations were involved? What prestigious company of Architects signed off on this? Which surveyors put their name to this, both those privately employed by the mortgage providers and paid from the public purse by DCC. Who was the fire officer that signed off on this development?
Are they going to refund the mortgage payments made aswell or take that off the new mortgage? Until mcfeehily is jailed there’s no justice and hes very much culpable for that poor chap taking his own life
Jack arse
As your name suggests perhaps you could just sit on it and mind your own business unless you are. Priory Hall victim.
Go back to bed Richie,adults are having a discussion here
More trolling insults Richie? Do you not get bored with yourself?
I see it as a precendent to compensate for the professional incompetence of private individuals, once again the tax payer will pay so th politician to remain popular.
I would rather the taxpayer helped out these families than the banks we have been bailing out over the last few years. I hope this is the new start these people deserve. Best of luck to them .
Hogan! the same Hogan who repeatedly said he was powerless to get involved, because a legal process was underway. So when a poor family lose a much loved husband and father because of his inaction, suddenly he comes up with a deal to hopefully sort it all out. Explain why you can suddenly find that power now Hogan. Why isn’t the legal process standing in your way now? Any real man would have automatically resigned, but you being the arrogant Oaf that you surely are, are trying to use this tragedy so as to portray you as a great hero and saviour of the people. Hogan you are an affront to all decent people!
why are “professional” buy to let investors being bailed out here??? socialising the risk again
I don’t know the level investors are being bailed out or not, it’s a tough call. However it could also be argued that investors were also badly let down by the planning and building inspection regime of the state.
It sounded like they were getting the same deal as owner occupiers. I just believe a higher due diligence is expected of an “investor” , same logic of course should have been used towards the German and British banks “we” bailed out. The state has let most people down in any event.
Why are the architects and dcc not in court? Did they sign the fire cert?
Silver harp
Apparently you know nothing about the law! Investors are no different to homeowners in a Constitutional sense and it would need a referendum to change such an entitlement. As a proposal it would never fly.
I know justice of which the law is only an occasional bedfellow. The law is currently in the process of turning the whole country into toxic sludge.
Reg – many people have been let down, buy only a few are being assisted by the state. Wrong and unfair
@Silverharp Harp – there’s plenty of reasons to have a moan about professional buy-to-let investors in this country. This is not one of them imo. They were burned just like every other person that bought an apartment there.
Have a go at the people that signed off on this site as being liveable before you have a go at the buy-to-letters.
Apparantly you know everything about everything ,pull your pants up and stop masturbating,leave your bedsit and join in the real world troll
I still don’t want to be on the side of having to pay for other peoples mistakes. There is so much moral hazard in this country that Im having to educate my kids to get the hell out of here when they grow up. And nothing is changing. The current system is crap, if you buy a car for 10K you will spend 200€ to get an independent report done. If you buy a property for half a million you trust some drone in Dublin Co Council (me arse). For any market to work you need a nervous buyer and a nervous seller, the current system puts everyone to sleep and encourages the dodgy developments like Priory Hall, its got to change
Hogan specifically said on the radio that buy to let people where NOT getting this deal. They will retain ownership of their property, which will be repaired by the council, but that’s it for them.
I just listen to local radio station,it said it will cost 20m to clear up this mess, not a thing about a man’s life, this shows this whole country is just about money money money money, and then Hogan thinks he’s a great man for sorting this mess out, tell that to that man’s family.
Is it just me or does it seem odd that both debt write offs and property refurbishment is the approach here? Should the government not simply refurbish the properties and allow these people to move back in to their property that they bought? Im sure if that was the proposal on day one of this issue 2 years ago it would have been acceptable. Something does not sit well with me about this………..I have no problem with the tax payer helping these people over the last 2 year with regards their alternative accommodation expenses and I have no issue with the tax payer making their houses safe. I find both of these to be the right thing to do. But is it right for their mortgages to be written off and that they can now buy again in a very different market while a lot of other people are in bad situations regarding mortgage debt and negative equity?…………hmmmmmmmmmmm……is this not a dodgy precedent?
People please listen to mr Richie Rogers he’s a behavioural scientist and is also infallible in all matters ,the only opinion that’s counts is his and FGs.
If u disagree please note u will be insulted with snide remarks and forced to listen to he’s brand of gombeenism
So after 2 years sitting on his hands Hogan finally is moved into action by the death of someone. What a disgrace he is.
Phil Hogan says it is balanced and fair.
I ask myself how much trust can I put in anything he says, and I answer myself by saying, not a lot.
When he and his colleagues in this wretched excuse for a government actually do something positive about the problem rather than engage in this constant tiresome bullshitting exercise, I might change my mind.
Change the record Garry FFS.
He has a point birdbrain
To Laurence The Bird, if you don’t like the tune fcuk off back under your rock and sing to yourself. ffs.
To see the words ‘Hogan’ alongside ‘balanced, equitable and fair’ makes me vom a little
They should have to move back in, there getting away with buying an apartment at a bad time
Being allowed to gave the debt wrote off is not fair to every other person who has lost a job and then a house.why should they be allowed to get a new loan for a new house if DCC will make all the repairs?tax payers twice in one go.yes they deserve help but this is a bit much,just because they want to move on isn’t a reason to wipe debt.i would love to have all my debts wrote off and buy a nice house like most of Ireland.the complex should be repaired and it’s residents returned to their “new” safe homes
So what is your solution? This is a unique case, the residents were forced from there homes and CANT move back in because it’s unsafe! It’s time for everyone to stop with these idealistic views, let’s get real. The priory hall residents have been in the wilderness for 2 years and under severe stress through no fault of their own. That’s 2 years of hell for them and their families through no fault of their own. Something had to be done for them.
have your say