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Timeline: The seismic controversy over the Project Eagle sale as it unfolded from start to finish

The Public Accounts Committee published its report into the sale today.

Updated 14 March 2017.

Originally published September 2016

pjimage Clockwise from bottom left: Peter Robinson, Mick Wallace, Michael Noonan

THIS AFTERNOON, THE Public Accounts Committee published its long-awaited report into the sale of the Project Eagle loans portfolio.

It was one of the biggest moments in the long-running story of the sale of Nama’s northern loan book, and found that the sales strategy for the sale was “seriously deficient”.

After the report was released, Michael Noonan refuted the suggestion that he ‘acted inappropriately’ over the loan book’s sale.

Here’s a refresher course on the story behind the controversial agency’s most controversial land deal:

December 2009

In the wake of the worst property crash in living memory, the Irish government creates the National Asset Management Agency (NAMA) which purchases Ireland’s distressed property loans from the ailing Irish banks at a discount in return for government bonds in an attempt to stabilise the tanking economy.

Once established, a Northern Ireland Advisory Committee (NIAC) is set up within the agency to deal with the region’s loan book.

The agency’s acquired Northern Irish properties are known collectively as Project Eagle. Nama initially acquires the distressed portfolio for about €1.2 billion in 2010.

June 2013

Northern Irish Finance Minister and Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) MLA Sammy Wilson informs his counterpart from south of the border Michael Noonan that he has been contacted by interested buyers with a view to purchasing the northern loan book.

Sammy Wilson breastfeeding comments Sammy Wilson Liam McBurney Liam McBurney

September 2013

Nama is contacted by law firm Brown Rudnick, representatives of US group Pimco, to state Pimco’s interest in buying the portfolio.

November 2013

Sammy Wilson’s nominee to Nama’s Northern Ireland Advisory Committee (NIAC), businessman Frank Cushnahan, resigns from the committee citing personal reasons.

December 2013

File Photo Banking Report Release Today. Nama chief executive Bernard McDonagh Leon Farrell Leon Farrell

Nama officially places a ‘for sale’ sign on Project Eagle and invites bids from prospective buyers.

March 2014

Pimco informs Nama that it will pay £15 million (€17.6 million) in ‘success fees’ to Cushnahan, Brown Rudnick, and another Belfast law firm, Tughans, should it be successful in purchasing Project Eagle. It then promptly pulls out of the bidding.

Tughans and Brown Rudnick switch their attentions to US property fund Cerberus Capital Management.

Nama sale inquiry Former Northern Irish First Minister Peter Robinson Stephen Kilkenny Stephen Kilkenny

Meanwhile, on 25 March Northern Irish First Minister and DUP leader Peter Robinson meets with former US vice president Dan Quayle, the chairman of Cerberus, together with Ian Coulter, a partner at Tughans.

On 31 March, Irish Minister for Finance Michael Noonan himself meets with Cerberus. The appropriateness, or otherwise, of this meeting will dog a Public Accounts Committee (PAC) inquiry into the sale two years later.

April 2014

Cerberus secures the sale of Project Eagle for about €1.6 billion.

January 2015

Coulter resigns from his post at Tughans.

July 2015

On 2 July Wexford TD, and former property developer, Mick Wallace tells the Dáil that £7 million (€8.2 million) was due to be diverted from Tughans to an Isle of Man bank account for the benefit of a Northern Irish politician or party. This money was “intended to facilitate payments to deal-makers involved in the sale”, according to the BBC.

The following day Tughans says that Coulter had left the company following a row over the diverted money, and that the money was subsequently recouped.

Wallace claims that the €1.6 billion sale undervalued the Project Eagle portfolio by as much as €3 billion.

wallace Mick Wallace

On 7 July both the Dáil’s Public Accounts Committee (PAC) and its Northern Irish equivalent announce inquiries into the loan sale. Two days later the PSNI launches its own investigation.

On 10 July Nama tells the PAC that Cushnahan and Tughans / Brown Rudnick were to split the Pimco payment of £15 million between them.

Coulter subsequently breaks his silence and denies that any politician received any money from the Project Eagle deal. First Minister Peter Robinson likewise denies that either he or his family had benefited in any way from the deal.

September 2015

US firm Cerberus tells the Northern Irish finance committee that it had no knowledge of any of the goings-on at Tughans, and that it paid Brown Rudnick directly. The US Department of Justice begins investigating the Project Eagle deal.

bryson Jamie Bryson speaking before the North's Finance Committee in September 2015

On 10 September, Peter Robinson stands aside as Northern Ireland’s First Minister in the political fallout of an investigation surrounding the murder of ex-IRA prisoner Kevin McGuigan.

On 23 September, Jamie Bryson, a Loyalist blogger, tells the committee that five people were set to benefit from the sale, including now former First Minister Peter Robinson. Robinson denies the claim and then threatens to sue Mick Wallace over a tweet the TD sent in relation to Robinson and Nama.

October 2015

Nama accuses Mick Wallace of being ‘utterly disingenuous’ regarding the Project Eagle sale. Wallace for his part then accuses Taoiseach Enda Kenny of a cover-up concerning another Nama loan deal, Project Arrow, concerning €6 billion worth of property in the Republic, with Cerberus once again in pole position to secure the deal.

August 2016

14/07/2016. The National Treasury Management Agenc Michael Noonan Rollingnews.ie Rollingnews.ie

Independents4Change TDs Clare Daly and Mick Wallace launch a new whistleblower website called Namaleaks, seeking to uncover poor practice within the financial institution.

On 18 August, Sinn Féin MLA Daithí McKay resigns from the assembly over allegations that he ‘coached’ Jamie Bryson before he made the allegations about Peter Robinson before the north’s finance committee in September 2015

September 2016

On 6 Septemberan edition of the BBC’s Spotlight broadcasts a secret recording of Frank Cushnahan allegedly accepting a £40,000 payment from a Nama borrower in 2012, when he was still working for the agency.

The programme claims Cushnahan said he would use his “insider status” to help ease the borrower’s financial problems.

bbc BBC Spotlight BBC Spotlight

The C&AG’s report into the sale is published on 14 September.

It finds that Nama lost €220m on the sale of the loan book. The findings of the report are categorically rejected by Nama.

The C&AG report finds that Nama had over-discounted the loans, giving 10-15% discounts where 5.5% would be more applicable. It adds that NAMA did not keep an “adequate record of key decisions and events even though the sales process deviated from standard”.

Frank Daly, Nama’s chairman, says that the agency had done its utmost to achieve the best price possible.

In advance of its publication Michael Noonan claims there was “nothing improper” and “nothing illegal” concerning the sale of Project Eagle.

It is announced on 15 September that there will be a Commission of Investigation into Nama over Project Eagle.

PAC invites Peter Robinson and martin McGuinness to appear over the loanbook sale.

On 29 September, Nama chairman Frank Daly appears before the PAC. He defends the organisation’s sale of Project Eagle, saying that it was the best deal the organisation could have got. Again, the findings of the C&AG report are rejected.

October 2016

Finance Minister Michael Noonan answers questions over the Nama Project Eagle sale on 6 October. It’s rare to see a sitting minister appear before the Pac like this.

He tells the PAC that the sale of Project Eagle was the decision of the Nama board alone and he had no legal grounding to be involved in the process.

On 18 October, Nama appear before the PAC, and it doesn’t go well. TDs criticise Nama’s paper trail, their “rushed” sale, and response to Frank Cushnahan crisis.

March 2017

The Public Account Committee’s report, released on 14 March, claims that Nama lost €800m in relation to the loan portfolio between the years 2010 and 2014.

It describes the sale strategy as being “seriously deficient”.

It also claims:

  • The failure to remove controversial businessman Frank Cushnahan from the agency’s northern advisory committee was “a failure of corporate governance” (Cushnahan resigned from the committee in November 2013 citing “personal reasons”
  • Key elements of the sale were “influenced” by the US firm Pimco, which made the initial approach to Nama with regard to the sale of the portfolio
  • Nama has been unable to demonstrate that it got “value for money” in the sale

The report includes, among other things, a strongly worded letter from Minister for Finance Michael Noonan to the committee contesting its suggestion that his meeting in March 2014 with the US fund Cerberus (which eventually bought the portfolio in April 2014 for €1.6 billion) was “inappropriate”.

Read: Project Eagle: Did Nama lose out on hundreds of millions of euro?

Read: Nama lodges complaint to Sipo after BBC Spotlight revelations

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61 Comments
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    Mute Fred Johnson
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    Sep 8th 2016, 11:01 PM

    “Around 700 French nationals are still in Syria, France’s top prosecutor said last week.”

    Hope the French are not stupid enough to allow them back into the country, or if they do, arrest them and throw away the key. Or perhaps an airstrike to take them all out might be the way to go.

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    Mute Bridget O'Hanlon
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    Sep 8th 2016, 11:04 PM

    That’s a nice peaceful solution Fred. Glad you haven’t got your finger on the red button. How do you propose keeping people out of their own country?

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    Mute Petr Tarasov
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    Sep 8th 2016, 11:04 PM

    Killing French citizens without charge or trial. Grand bit of Liberté!

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    Mute Fred Johnson
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    Sep 8th 2016, 11:08 PM

    You think there is a peaceful solution Bridget? What age are you? Have you got school tomorrow?

    why do you think they’re in Syria? for the weather?

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    Mute Beachmaster
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    Sep 8th 2016, 11:11 PM

    Is the Irish government worried about our own returning jihadis?

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    Mute Mick Collins
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    Sep 8th 2016, 11:30 PM

    Yeah Paddy the Jihadi. He’s a dangerous man.

    12
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    Mute John003
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    Sep 9th 2016, 12:01 AM

    Well Iran manages to keep thousands of Iranians in exile since the Islamic revolution
    Perhaps the French could send a team to Iran and ask them how they manage to do it
    Beats me how they manage it.

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    Mute Д Царьков
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    Sep 9th 2016, 3:40 AM

    To Petr : I’ve seen first hand people being approached by “nice happy people just sick of the way things are” who sus out those that are harmless and susceptible. By no means is an easy nation to live in, and the at times callous nature of the French make being befriending and belonging somewhere a source of comfort be it at the hands of extremists. Things here need to change big time this wouldn’t worry me only for I saw it tonight and was pretty alarmed by what I saw and heard. Vulnerable people will get either walked over by the locals or recruited by the baddies when they’re down.

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    Mute Can't Think of One
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    Sep 9th 2016, 5:28 AM

    French citizens, but also Muslim fundamentalists. And as such, they need killing.

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    Mute Oonaghpoonagh
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    Sep 9th 2016, 6:15 AM

    @briget OHanlon give them a hug and ask them nicely? Might work…

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    Mute Petr Tarasov
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    Sep 9th 2016, 8:58 AM

    Can’t Think of One / Liam Egan

    Ah yeah, just killed those who disagree with you. Where’s the harm.

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    Mute Marlowemallow
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    Sep 9th 2016, 9:39 AM

    What is this irrational insistence that Islam in Ireland is uniquely free of fanaticism about?

    “A FORMER ISIS operative claims that there are around 40 Irish fighters with ISIS in the Middle East.”

    “The Irish fighters are perfect snipers; they use them sometimes with the Chechens, in any place they need snipers, they move the Irish,” he adds.

    “They are part of the Al Khalifa army (Caliphate army), and fought in Kobane.

    While Abu Omer says there are around 40 Irish fighters in Deir ez Zor, the Department of Justice’s official figure is that 30 Irish fighters have left here to fight in Syria and Iraq. Sources in the US State Department, however, say this number is closer to 70 in total.

    Of the Irish, Abu Omer came across, one was known as ‘Abu Omer al-Irlandi’, another, ‘Abu Yazid al-Irlandi’. They work alongside British jihadists, “you see them together” says Omer.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/interview-isis-fighter-ireland-1930654-Feb2015/

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    Mute Marlowemallow
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    Sep 9th 2016, 9:45 AM

    We have the exact same problems as the rest of western Europe. We’re just about 20 years behind them in terms of being willing to talk about it because we’re so determined to prove how modern and progressive and tolerant we are these days compared to our backward, xenophobic past:

    “A PROMINIENT IRISH Muslim cleric has claimed that Muslim children are being taught “hatred of other communities” at unregulated weekend classes in Ireland…

    …Shaykh Umar earlier told Keelin Shanley on RTE’s Today with Seán O’Rourke that a member of his council was physically assaulted when trying to post anti-extremist flyers at a Dublin mosque.
    He claimed that up to 100 of the 50,000 Muslims in Ireland are silent supporters of Islamic State with radical ideologies.

    “These people have not been challenged or isolated. This does not mean they are violent extremists, but they are extremist in their ideology and thinking. We must stand against them,” he said.”

    http://www.thejournal.ie/umar-al-qadri-teaching-2430709-Nov2015/
    http://www.thejournal.ie/mosque-assault-2241857-Jul2015/
    http://www.independent.ie/world-news/middle-east/the-irish-are-the-perfect-snipers-says-isis-escapee-30993107.html

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    Mute Jan Sobeiski
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    Sep 9th 2016, 3:40 PM

    Disagree, lol, a good terrorist is a dead one.

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    Mute luke sarpish
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    Sep 8th 2016, 10:54 PM

    I’m sick of this bullshit.

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    Mute Petr Tarasov
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    Sep 8th 2016, 10:57 PM

    Are you really? What are you gonna do about it big man?

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    Mute luke sarpish
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    Sep 8th 2016, 11:00 PM

    Hug a Muslim.

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    Mute TheLoneHurler
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    Sep 8th 2016, 11:05 PM

    Get Petr some ice for that burn!

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    Mute molly coddled
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    Sep 8th 2016, 11:42 PM

    Brilliant Luke.

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    Mute sparky
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    Sep 9th 2016, 12:17 AM

    Hug a nun, priest.

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    Mute Jan Sobeiski
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    Sep 9th 2016, 10:30 AM

    Lol

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    Mute Deirdre Nic Thuachair
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    Sep 9th 2016, 12:13 AM

    I honestly feel sorry for anyone that could possibly defend these Islamist lunatics. How misguided you must be if you are a European woman in western society and support this primitive ideology that goes to extremes to suppress us. They couldn’t be more perversely counterintuitive.

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    Mute TheLoneHurler
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    Sep 9th 2016, 12:25 AM

    Thats left leaning liberals for you.

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    Mute O-'Seán
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    Sep 9th 2016, 12:25 AM

    Well the left has sold us all out for total appeasement so its time for people of all political persuasions to call that out.

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    Mute Methodical Insanity
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    Sep 9th 2016, 12:36 AM

    The tide is starting to turn though. More and more people are starting to speak up about the Emperor’s lack of attire, in regards to the multicultural project.

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    Mute Stephen Todd
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    Sep 9th 2016, 12:40 AM

    “Left leaning liberals” don’t defend Islam as a doctrine, nor the fundamentalists that carry out these heinous attacks. “Left leaning liberals” defend the right of the man or woman sitting beside you, that happens to be Muslim, not to be labelled as a murderer.

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    Mute sparky
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    Sep 9th 2016, 12:45 AM

    Deirdre. I will never defend Islamic fundamentals,but I try be a voice for my few Muslim friends,they describe these attacks as barbaric,but I find some of the comments on here just totally painting all Muslims with the one brush. I wonder how many of them will be hoping Pogba has a great game on Saturday.

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    Mute Stephen Todd
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    Sep 9th 2016, 12:52 AM

    Threads about anything relating to Muslims tends to be where logic goes to die. I live beside the Mosque in Clonskeagh and there are so many lovely people around here. It ridiculous how simplified and generalised people’s opinions of Islam have become. A “death doctrine” you see it called.

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    Mute Methodical Insanity
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    Sep 9th 2016, 1:02 AM

    Of course the Muslim’s you’ve met are nice Stephen. all the Muslims that I’ve met are nice too. However, from looking at historical precedent, that will gradually change as the population rises above 2%

    http://i.imgur.com/L6lce69.jpg

    According to the 2011 census, the Muslim population in Ireland at the time was 1.07%

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Ireland

    We’ll see if they’re still nice in a few years time. Who knows, maybe Ireland will break the pattern.

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    Mute Stephen Todd
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    Sep 9th 2016, 1:04 AM

    The more red thumbs I get the more I find glee in knowing that I fall on the right side of the argument. There’s a certain irony in people here giving out about fundamentalism yet a fervent hatred of people they’ve never met. Sound bites don’t drown out the stench of xenophobia, nor the bigotry. Hypocritical bunch we are

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    Mute Motherofdivinejebus
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    Sep 9th 2016, 1:07 AM

    @ Stephen Todd, Wait until that Muslim Barracks has a majority in the surrounding areas,Supposed to be Europes largest Mosque when finished. Once Clonkskeagh has the numbers around it, it will be taken over, and Your Muslim friends will be so appalled by it and the radicalisation of their religion where they now live.
    They will try and put distance between it and themselves but by then it will be too late, It is a waiting games, and all they need is numbers, and the Numbers are coming in generations.
    It`s only all a matter of time before we hear louder cries for Sharia law throughout European cities and towns,and if one country gets it,The cries will grow louder.
    It will be like a Dominoe effect

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    Mute sparky
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    Sep 9th 2016, 1:08 AM

    Historical precedent..lol..just look up the Catholic Church on that one..shhhure their a great crowd.

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    Mute Stephen Todd
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    Sep 9th 2016, 1:08 AM

    The rising population will not statistically lead to more attacks as we don’t have vested interest in the Middle East and haven’t gone and created an environment that makes ISIS a palatable alternative for people from the region. If that problem darkens our door, it’ll be down to a crazed individual more so than a person following their own interpretation of the word of their God

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    Mute Motherofdivinejebus
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    Sep 9th 2016, 1:12 AM

    Also @ Stephen, on your bio you call yourself a Republican??? – You don`t know the meaning of the word lad.
    Part time poet i can believe…..

    56
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    Mute Stephen Todd
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    Sep 9th 2016, 1:12 AM

    @Mother wait until we’ve maligned a population within our country and alienated those yet to arrive to a point that they are perceived terrorists whether or not they’ve been here for generations. Martin Luther King once said “Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.” We’re hating those we’ve yet to meet. At what point does it end?

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    Mute Deirdre Nic Thuachair
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    Sep 9th 2016, 1:14 AM

    I would never want to damn someone because of their religion. But when I see a woman walking about in a burka in Ireland I don’t see a woman just practicing her own beliefs. I see a brain washed woman that has little respect in spite of a naive western society that gave her shelter.
    When I was in Saudi Arabia I didn’t get 2 feet out the door of the airport before two women gave out to me something fierce for not at least covering my hair. Rightfully so. When in Rome…. I assure you I sorted myself with a scarf/hijab whilst I was there.

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    Mute Stephen Todd
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    Sep 9th 2016, 1:14 AM

    @mother. Yes, republican, not nationalist. Two very different things, so it appears you’re the one who is confused

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    Mute Stephen Todd
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    Sep 9th 2016, 1:18 AM

    @Deirdre it’s fortunate so that we live in a country where we have the right to a freedom of expression isn’t it? Would you say the same about a person wearing a cross? Some choose to wear a headscarf, some don’t, but who are you to say who should or shouldn’t, coming from a value base that prioritises freedom of choice?

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    Mute sparky
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    Sep 9th 2016, 1:18 AM

    Did you ever ask yourself why so many women wore scarfs in Ireland not so long ago..think about that for a minute.

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    Mute johnp
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    Sep 9th 2016, 1:18 AM

    Was in a petrol station in clonskeagh a while back, lady in a hijab dropped some money.Ipicked it up tried to hand it back to her, her male friend grabbed it off me and starred like I had just finger banged his ma.

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    Mute Methodical Insanity
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    Sep 9th 2016, 1:19 AM

    Nice try trying to divert the point Spanky, but we’re not talking about the Catholic Church, we’re talking about Islam right now. I don’t see very many radical Catholics these days, and those that do exist just tend to whine about stuff they’re opposed to, rather than actually murdering people for it.

    Stephen, what exactly do you base that assumption on? For the entire 1400 years of Islam’s existence, its proponents have advocated conquest and the implementation of their law on their newly conquered territories. Are you saying that they’re suddenly going to stop doing this, just because you say so? So just because Ireland isn’t involved in the situation in Middle East, they won’t feel the need to inflict their will upon us? Then can I ask, how do you explain what’s happening in the Nordic countries, most notably Sweden? I don’t recall hearing much about the Nordic countries causing problems in the Middle East, and they have actually been very generous in terms of their immigration policies, yet they’ve had huge problems with Muslim violence as their population has increased.

    I think you should watch this video. It might offer some interesting insights.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SID869na8yw

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    Mute Stephen Todd
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    Sep 9th 2016, 1:23 AM

    I think I’ll pass on your link but with respect you are speaking in the hypothetical just as much as I am. We live in a catholic country, a Christian country. The KKK are Christian fundamentalists. Would it then be fair to say that every follower of Christianity is then by default a supporter of the KKK? No because that a ludicrous suggestion to make, yet the same logic is applied to ISIS and followers of Islam.

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    Mute sparky
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    Sep 9th 2016, 1:25 AM

    Methodical insanity. .we are talking about religion..did the Catholic Church not cover up the murder of babies born out of wedlock..

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    Mute Motherofdivinejebus
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    Sep 9th 2016, 1:31 AM

    Stephen, Are you saying that only ISIS members and fanatics, and no other Muslims went to the Nordic Countries and kicked this all off?

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    Mute Stephen Todd
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    Sep 9th 2016, 1:34 AM

    I’m not speaking about the Nordic countries I’m speaking about Islam and this countries apparent disdain towards it. We can all pick examples that suit our narrative, where or how do you suggest this ends?

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    Mute Methodical Insanity
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    Sep 9th 2016, 1:36 AM

    I am speaking in the hypothetical, yes that’s true. But it’s a hypothetical situation that is informed from looking at evidence that already exists. Historical precedent of what life is like in most Muslim majority countries, the increasing number of extremist attacks in the West as the Muslim population rises, and numerous surveys which have been conducted on Muslims which suggest that it isn’t just a small minority of them who hold extremist views, rather than assumptions, based on my own feelings, or how I hope everything turns out. I don’t want to be right about my predictions, and I really hope I am wrong, but based on what happens in every single existing Muslim country, and the increasing problems that are happening in Western countries which have a larger Muslim population than we do, I cannot help but worry about the future.

    And yes, your comparison to the KKK is invalid, because as I already pointed out, we actually have full on Muslim Majority countries, which share many beliefs that are similar to that of ISIS, such as executing gays, persecuting non-Muslims, treating women as second class citizens, etc. Can you name any Christian majority country which follows KKK ideology?

    And yes Sparky, it did. What’s your point though? I’m not a Catholic, or here to defend the Catholic church, so trying to start an argument with me over something I’m not even trying to defend is just a strawman. The Catholic Church is toothless now and dying off in the West anyway as more and more young people turn away from it. Islam isn’t, and is actually a relevant problem today and in the future.

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    Mute sparky
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    Sep 9th 2016, 1:46 AM

    Methodical insanity. My point is that the atrocities carried out all those years ago were acceptable in that era,for us to judge the ordinary Muslim and tar them all with the same brush is not a strawman debate..the history of the Catholic Church has a lot of blood on its hands.

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    Mute Stephen Todd
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    Sep 9th 2016, 1:47 AM

    There’s no doubting Muslim majority countries have many flaws with their treatment of gays, women etc…as do many Christian majority countries, so to put that down to religion alone is incorrect.

    With regards to Muslims in Europe, and these fanatical attacks, they are driven by an ideology, one than is not held by the highest of majorities of followers of Islam, due to the carpet bombing of their people in their own countries. I don’t think it irrational to fathom a man who takes up a war against the west when the west may have blown the rest of his family out of their home. He is radicalised by western policy, and ISIS have fed directly into this narrative.

    What would you suggest we do to tackle this crisis?

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    Mute Deirdre Nic Thuachair
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    Sep 9th 2016, 1:53 AM

    @Stephen
    You need to read my comment again. I wasn’t disputing the hijab but I am certainly disputing the burka. That symbol of oppression has no place in western society, full stop. The burka is only a Saudi custom. Too much preference has been given to such a small minority here in Ireland.

    Continental Europe is in a constant state of fear. France is nearly a police state and there is one common denominator that you can not deny. Islamist extremism.

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    Mute Stephen Todd
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    Sep 9th 2016, 1:56 AM

    So you feel you have the right to tell women who live in Ireland and practice Islam what they can wear? And that’s not oppressive but the other is?

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    Mute Deirdre Nic Thuachair
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    Sep 9th 2016, 2:19 AM

    @Stephen
    Again Stephen when in Rome… They being able the immigrate here was a privilege not a right. Wearing a burka is by no means assimilating.

    You think I would get away with the opposite in their country?? I have to admire them. They don’t worry of whom they may offend.

    How about you go about the shops and bank with a balaclava on just say it’s part of your religion. See how that works out for you.

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    Mute Methodical Insanity
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    Sep 9th 2016, 2:21 AM

    Stephen and Sparky, I actually had a very long response written out to both of you, but for some reason, it didn’t post. I then tried making a second shorter post, and the same thing happened. I’m guessing I might have used some kind of keyword or words that the comments system flags for moderation. I had included a few links in it to back up the points I was making, so I’m guessing one of those was the problem. I don’t feel like writing it all out again now, so I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree. We’ve all made our points and I think neither side is going to budge anyway.

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    Mute Stephen Todd
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    Sep 9th 2016, 2:25 AM

    But why does what they wear determine how they assimilate? It’s superficial. So if Rome is a country that espouses the right to civil liberties and freedom of choice, we still tell others what they can and can’t wear? I think you’re either choosing or failing to see the hypocrisy of it all. The reality is you don’t live in a country that determines what you wear, and neither does a woman who lives here but chooses to wear the burka. What you’re saying is absolute double speak. It’s coming from a place of prejudice, not a social justice perspective

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    Mute Stephen Todd
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    Sep 9th 2016, 2:27 AM

    @Deirdre your last comment about a balaclava is laughable, and an unsophisticated way of attempting to make a point.

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    Mute Motherofdivinejebus
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    Sep 9th 2016, 2:35 AM

    Her last comment is perfectly valid Stephen,You have to take your motorcycle helmet off going into a bank,But according to you it is ok for others to walk in with their faces covered? Also, I have watched your replies and i noticed that when you BS was challenged, you dodged the question, even to the point of a long winded excuse about not being able to answer.
    Newsflash Buddy!! If you had time to write that,and answer to Deirdre, you had time to answer the question.

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    Sep 9th 2016, 2:42 AM

    You answered none of mine so I’m only holding you to your own standard. A motorcycle helmet is used regularly to conceal a face of a burglar, as is a balaclava. I’ve never once seen a headline “burka wearing bandit armed raid on post office”. And by the way, are you highly suspicious of all motorcyclists?

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    Mute Motherofdivinejebus
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    Sep 9th 2016, 4:06 AM

    Burqa bandit in armed cash grab
    http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/burqa-bandit-in-armed-cash-grab-20100505-ub1r.html

    Hunt for the ‘Burka Bandit’: Man armed with knife and umbrella dressed as Muslim woman to rob travel agents
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2008641/Hunt-burka-raider-Man-dressed-Muslim-woman-caught-CCTV-robbing-travel-agencies.html

    Hows them Apples Stephen?

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    Mute Oonaghpoonagh
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    Sep 9th 2016, 6:25 AM

    @sparky i think youre confusing peoples criticism of islamic ideology with muslim people. You need to look a but deeper instead of getting deeply offended on behalf of others. Bloody Snowflake generation. Besides why cant people criticise islam? Can we criticise the catholic church? Islam is another idea its not beyond criticism

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    Mute Can't Think of One
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    Sep 9th 2016, 6:40 AM

    Small willy syndrome, John. Insecurity. Seems to be a thing with men from certain parts of the world. Is that a racist rematk? No, just an observation.

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    Mute Nick Caffrey
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    Sep 9th 2016, 7:22 AM

    Wearing a cross is part of indigenous culture here; wearing a burka is not. Hijab is acceptable. Simple. Only people hiding faces in masks are terrorists.

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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Sep 9th 2016, 7:26 AM

    @Insanity
    If you try and include more than two links in a single post it’ll be rejected by the Journal system – to cut down on spam I suppose but it’s annoying when you have a bona fide reason to post multiple links.

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    Mute John Ward
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    Sep 9th 2016, 8:55 AM

    @Stephen Todd: Christian country my arse!

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    Mute Jan Sobeiski
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    Sep 9th 2016, 10:32 AM

    The Cloinskeagh Mosque that has links to the Muslim Brotherhood…that one??

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    Mute Methodical Insanity
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    Sep 9th 2016, 12:56 PM

    Avina thanks, I never knew that. I actually had three links in the two posts that got rejected, so that would explain that. Really annoying after all the time I had put into typing out my response though. May as well post two of the links then, if that’s allowed.

    https://civilusdefendus.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/liberty-vs-sharia-july-2010-ltr.pdf

    http://thosewhocansee.blogspot.ie/2015/12/why-we-culturally-profile.html

    And as for the third, I’d suggest googling “muslim statistics wordpress” and checking out what should be the first site to come up. It might explain in more detail that it isn’t just a “tiny minority” who are a problem.

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    Mute Deirdre Nic Thuachair
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    Sep 9th 2016, 6:17 PM

    @ Motherofdivinejebus
    Thanks a million for the support but I do think Stephen Todd is a lost cause. The Cloinskeagh Mosque are a great bunch of lads. Nevermind their links with the muslim brotherhood. Stephen wrote that Muslim countries are “flawed” just as western countries are. Of course we don’t put women in a whole and stone them to death for adultery or refusing to marry. Or hang someone just because they’re gay, marry a young child to a adult man, and men to have multiple wives to name a few.

    For Steven a person that so passionately defends an ideology thats very doctrine screams oppression and dominance seems incredibly self destructive. Unfortunately he doesn’t have enough life experience or plain common sense to know any better.

    There is far too much naivety in Ireland because the Irish are so new to immigration.

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    Mute king Jamie
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    Sep 8th 2016, 10:47 PM

    I’m glad our multiculturalism is not turning to shire like France’s is….. Yet!

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    Mute mac.kerel
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    Sep 8th 2016, 11:47 PM

    I don’t think Shire was multicultural. Hobbits were quite xenophobic I read…

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    Mute king Jamie
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    Sep 8th 2016, 11:48 PM

    I Kent shite !

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    Mute king Jamie
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    Sep 8th 2016, 11:48 PM

    Ment’

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    Mute Motherofdivinejebus
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    Sep 9th 2016, 12:57 AM

    I could point it out but i won`t……..AhhhPhuket, I will………*Meant* is the word you are looking for Jamie

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    Mute The Girl
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    Sep 8th 2016, 10:44 PM

    Now women getting involved? When’s all this going to end.?

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    Mute DMurph
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    Sep 8th 2016, 10:48 PM

    When they destoy everyone who doesn’t pray to Mohammad..

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    Mute prouesse f
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    Sep 8th 2016, 10:54 PM

    Dmurph They target Muslims too. ..

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    Mute jane
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    Sep 8th 2016, 11:38 PM

    Actually it’s mostly Muslims they kill

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    Mute Marlowemallow
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    Sep 9th 2016, 10:53 AM

    The fact that they target Muslims in no way disproves that they are Islamic.

    Their understanding of sharia requires them to execute muslims who are ‘hypocrites’ – bad muslims – or apostates or who ‘spread mischief in the land’ or who are defined as unavoidable collateral damage in a legitimate jihad or who are killed in valid retaliation. Same reason why Saudi and Iran execute the same categories of people. Killing other muslims is perfectly permissible and sometimes required under Islamic law under defined circumstances.

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    Mute prouesse f
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    Sep 9th 2016, 4:49 PM

    “Killing other muslims is perfectly permissible and sometimes required under Islamic law under defined circumstances.”

    Really?

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    Mute Ellen Malone
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    Sep 8th 2016, 11:42 PM

    I was there right next to where it happened sitting obliviously having breakfast iyhe my friends watching this abandoned car be torn apart by the French police being none the wiser. People asked me if I was mad traveling to Paris and Brussels (where I was days before) but I never felt more safe. The army and police presence was brilliant in both cities but also a sad reminder of what our world had come to.

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    Mute TheLoneHurler
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    Sep 9th 2016, 12:24 AM

    The cops have to be lucky every time, the terrorists just once.

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    Mute Gooner Sean
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    Sep 9th 2016, 1:48 AM

    Islam is a cult illness and barbaric.

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    Mute Stephen Todd
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    Sep 9th 2016, 1:51 AM

    Just as barbaric as your claim to republicanism

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    Mute Marlowemallow
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    Sep 9th 2016, 5:38 PM

    Do explain exactly how that statement is incompatible with republicanism Stephen…

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    Mute Gunnarsahn
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    Sep 8th 2016, 10:54 PM

    i could do with a few ‘radical ladies’ intent on ‘imminent action’ with me

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    Mute Al Ca
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    Sep 8th 2016, 10:55 PM

    But…might be the last action you ever see and cost you a few bits and bobs.

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    Mute O-'Seán
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    Sep 9th 2016, 12:38 AM

    If Islam didn’t seem to take priority over any would be western leanings we might not be in this mess, petr, etc

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    Mute Petr Tarasov
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    Sep 9th 2016, 9:02 AM

    Do you speak English?

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    Mute Jan Sobeiski
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    Sep 9th 2016, 7:13 AM

    The newly diagnosed ‘Mental illness’ that is Islamic terror,strikes again.

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