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BRENDAN HOWLIN OPENS the door to his office in Labour headquarters in Leinster House. The quarters are notably smaller than their previous haunt.
After a crushing defeat in the last election – the worst in their 104-year history – the party saw its representation in our national parliament fall from 37 to just 7.
Due to the party’s massive loss, which meant that they could neither afford nor fill that much office space any more, Labour’s remaining people have been relegated down a long corridor (which has a secret side entrance into the Dáil bar) to a part of Leinster House known as the annex.
Their previous quarters – the top floor, airy, rooms with a view – are now occupied by Sinn Féin, a bruising that is no doubt difficult for some in the Labour Party to take.
There is a smell of fresh paint in the offices on Friday as the recently-hired staff are buzzing around, preparing for the party think-in which is taking place in Dublin’s Mansion House that evening.
Veteran party leader
The party leader also has a pep in his step.
Taking a seat at the grand conference table, he explains that the room was home to some well-known Labour figures of the past, such as Dick Spring and the current President, Michael D Higgins.
If the Labour leader wants a ministerial office on Kildare Street in the future, things will have to change for the party, and Howlin knows this.
Cast your minds back just a few years to 2011, and you’ll remember Fine Gael and Labour rode a wave of populist sentiment all the way to Dáil Eireann.
But once Labour got their feet under the table, the larger party in government placed two ticking time bombs in their lap – housing and water charges.
Water charges
“Clearly, the whole water issue was a mistake,” says Howlin now.
During the Economic Management Council (EMC) meeting in November 2014, Howlin says he and Eamon Gilmore “fought trenchantly” for charges not to be introduced until all the metering was completed.
The Labour leader says he didn’t want them introduced until an analysis of cost had been carried out “so there wouldn’t be a fear from people”.
We should have postponed it, we shouldn’t have allowed for it to go ahead.
Fine Gael were of the view that, no, no, once you started charging, people would simply accept it.
Howlin admits his party misread the mood of the people on the water charges issue.
“Yes, probably. I think Irish Water became the last straw for people who were already just hanging on by their fingernails after going through the worst recession since the foundation of the state,” says the Wexford deputy.
Fine Gael’s Phil Hogan set sail for Europe (he is currently the European Commissioner on Agriculture), leaving Labour’s then-Minister for the Environment Alan Kelly to become the poster boy for water charges.
He [Phil] did go to Europe and there were big issues left in the housing and water area. We tried to do the best that we could with it and Alan made a decent fist of it.
Despite being out of government now, Labour is still not budging or distancing themselves from the issue.
So why are they hitching their wagon to Irish Water, which remains so toxic in the mind of the public? Howlin says he is not going to go down the road of populism politics.
The one thing we said after the election – the populist thing for us to do and maybe the simplest thing for us to do is to take the populist line on everything.
But Irish Water wasn’t a mistake. I am absolutely convinced we needed a single national utility to deliver water.
Howlin maintains that €4 billion needs to be invested in Ireland’s water infrastructure. It’s his party’s policy that a charge should be implemented when someone goes over their allotted free allowance.
But Irish Water is no longer Labour’s problem. So how does he think the new government is handling the issue these days?
“I think it is a dog’s dinner now. I don’t know what the future holds because Fianna Fáil changes its position on it every second Wednesday. I don’t know what will ultimately happen, but it can’t be that whatever is popular this week is the national strategic approach to a valuable resource,” he says.
Alan Kelly and THAT press conference
As if Labour didn’t have enough problems after the election, it almost immediately started to air its dirty laundry in public with a squabble over the leadership.
Alan Kelly made his intentions for the leadership quite clear, appearing on The Late Late Show and stating that he wanted to take the top job. However, in the end, the party went with veteran member Howlin.
The culmination was the Labour leadership press conference, where there was one notable absence: Alan Kelly.
Was he annoyed that Kelly had tried to steal his thunder on what would be one of the biggest days of his career?
No, Alan made his own decision not to be there. I was very happy and honoured to be in that position… That day was an important day for me and nothing blemished it.
“We knew how fragile the party was at that stage. We didn’t want a long, protracted, internal introspective look at ourselves. We had already done that- we had a leadership election only two years ago,” says Howlin.
Throughout the interview, Howlin is keen to drive the message home that the Labour Party has turned a corner and is ready to rebuild. Howlin doesn’t want to hark back to those days at the beginning of the summer.
He denies there is no love lost between him and Kelly.
“I have a great working relationship with everyone in the party,” he says.
It is all hands on deck, everyone knows how hard we are going to have to work to win back the trust.
A sore point
The election is clearly a sore point for Howlin. Adjusting in his seat and clearing his throat, he says:
I think people were shocked at the scale of the defeat. To lose 30 seats was shattering.
The party has been licking its wounds over the summer with Howlin travelling the length and breadth of the country to meet with constituents and assess the damage.
“Politics – that is the way the game works out sometimes and you have to dust yourself off and get on with it.”
The Wexford TD says he knows where their voters went. “They went all over the shop,” he says.
Fianna Fáil recovered a few seats, so Howlin acknowledges the few they took from them in the 2011 election returned. Others went to Sinn Féin, but the vast bulk went to the independents, he says.
“These are very much parked votes that we have to win back. I don’t take that for granted… it is going to be a slow and steady reach out to people.”
It will involve explaining what we did in the last five years – including the mistakes we made, because it is clear that people had different expectations of us and some people were disappointed in us.
There were promises made that we didn’t keep and that wounded us, there is no doubt about it. We have to learn from that and make sure it never happens again.
Howlin maintains Labour is a left, progressive, social democratic party that strives to protect working people.
He hits back at other left groups who would disagree with that description, noting that other left parties didn’t make great gains in the last election.
“For all their campaigning and all their ranting, the AAA-PBP didn’t make a great advance,” he says.
‘Ranters’ of the left
Today’s government is a strange new mix of Fine Gael and independents, backed to some degree by Fianna Fáil. Howlin doesn’t think it will last more than a year.
I think we have to be prepared that this government won’t last a year.I know from discussions with senior ministers that they think the whole thing is dysfunctional themselves, although they won’t say it publically, they can’t.
Not a week seems to go by that there isn’t some sort of crisis in Cabinet hitting the headlines. Did these sort of disagreements go on between Fine Gael and Labour?
Yes, some of it would have happened behind closed doors insofar as a clash of views and that is what coalition thrash out behind closed doors.
We never allowed ourselves to be bullied. The government came close to falling apart on more than one occasion, but we kept it internal because it was too important for the external view of Ireland, to invest in Ireland, to know that we were holding it together as best we could.
Speaking about some members of the Independent Alliance have been rocking the boat in Cabinet, Howlin says:
“Once government policy is determined it is either government policy supported by all or people resign from government. You can’t be in and out at the same time.
“I am listening to ministers now talking as if government is different than themselves – that can’t be,” he says.
What Fine Gael would have done
Despite criticisms that his party did not stand up to Fine Gael as much as it should have, Howlin maintains the country would be very different had Labour not been in power.
“There is no doubt about that. I know, because I was the man charged with looking after the public purse and I know what they would have done.”
We had endless debate about expenditure. On the taxation and the expenditure side if you look at what Fine Gael actually said they would do and what we actually did in government you will see the difference…
On the taxation side they were inclined to reduce the top rate of tax. We said no, we want to reduce the impact of the Universal Social Charge (USC) on low income earners because they were brought in by Fianna Fáil at a punitive rate on everything over €4,000.
He also cites the protection of core social welfare payments, the marriage equality referendum and the legislating for the X case as some of Labour’s achievements in government.
The truth of the matter is, despite what the party or the people give Labour credit for in the last government, they have a long path ahead of them.
There’s a knock on the door and time is up. Howlin says he has to rush to a radio interview.
With the party’s annual think-in taking place over the next two days the party leader is in demand. He was used to receiving this level of attention during his time as Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, but it’s not as easy to come by these days.
Labour has risen from the ashes before – but can it do it again? Howlin knows it will be quite the task, but he seems up for the job.
It is a rebuild, it is a reconnect, we have to do that with a degree of humility as well and ask people to support us again.
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alan kelly was a disaster.
Howlin, Burton, Rabbitte, Kelly and their ilk are the equivalent of the Red Tories trying to scupper Corbyn since he won the leadership. Neoliberals masquerading as representatives of the working class who can’t accept the charade is nearly over.
Amazing how these psychopaths change their stance and their shallow minds depending on what side of the Dail they sit on.
Not an ounce of integrity in any one of them
Alan Kelly and Phil Hogan are still standing firm
The man and his party are a disgrace. The founding members of the Labour party are turning in their graves looking at what that once great party has become.
Government is an alternative word for Mafia. Each is interchangeable.
@Cram Wood: Labour conspired against the interests of the people. It was not just the issue of the water charges. I had the misfortune to meet a few senior Labour politicians. Their derision for the low paid and their contempt fir part of their constituency was truly nauseating. Labour senior echelons were turned to support the wealthy and the privileged.
Labiur dud nit misread. Labour betrayed its supporters.
I supported Labout but the senior politicians, Howlin included, became contemptuous of their own supporters.
Brendan is on about his mistake well the most important mistake he has made he never spoke about was that of joining the Labour Party when he is more suited to one of the main party’s maybe FG as he backed them long enough while lining his own pockets I don’t have a problem with Labour it’s some of its members who are in it such as this fellow.
Kelly has to. He’s supporting his water privatisation vulture brother.
Well said. Such rubbish I’ve just read, all about BH and his precious career. (Oh, and by the way he wants us to give the government anothet four billion Euro to throw away?). How can the country actually afford these politicians?
Clearly Brendan voting as I did for Labour was an even bigger mistake….
@Ciaran Morgan: He still is.
I’m genuinely surprised that Howlin would admit how out of touch Labour are with the electorate. Agree or disagree with Irish Water. How could you ignore 100,000 people on the street? The palpable anger amongst the people. They deserved to be decimated.
@john Appleseed: What you say is true but it was Phil Hogan who started the process and like the Household Charges which preceded the water charges and property tax Hogans sticky fingers were all over the thing. Kenny could see the rabbit in the headlights and moved Hogan off to Europe therefore landing the Environment in Labours lap. How very convenient and how stupid of Labour not to pull the rug from under Enda Kenny there and then.
“Labour Misread the mood of the people on water charges ” …….lol , seriously how do we keep paying these politicians so handsomely for to do a job so ineptly ….. Which indications were they reading that suggested ah yeah the people think this will be amazeballs ,what could possibly go wrong….
“…was a mistake because we didn’t get away with it.”
Howlin laid down finance & tender conditions for Eircode then gave White the go ahead even though none of the conditions were met. Eircode was created as the billing database for Irish Water & Rabbitte’s now scrapped Broadcasting Tax.
Chris, it was FF who started the process by agreeing water charges with the troika and now Mehole wants to abolish them completely even though he was a cabinet member of the government that agreed that deal. Talk about jumping on the populist bandwagon to leech votes and slither back into power
Agreed GLE. And then Revenue just it for LPT. No major fuss. No bribing An Post.
@theangrypotato: indeed FFF talked about a process but it was Hogan who started the ball rolling in his usual inept way.
No Lavbeer Revenue didn’t have time to wait for the postcode shenanigans to conclude and created their own DB for LPT. But Eircode and LPT databases are all ultimately based an An Posts GeoDirectory database. The same database An Post wouldn’t license to Loc8code 5 years before Eircode.
One seat away from being muted.. what a shame!
Not content with gutting the living standards of those they pretend to represent, Labour wish to add the criminalisation of a boy who sat down behind their leader’s car to their poisonous legacy of betrayal of the working class. Bravo blueshirt lapdogs!
Labour will be remembered not just for the Irish Water fiasco and while they claim to have protected core welfare benefits, there is no mention of the cuts to the disability payments, the medical card cuts, whereby people with terminal illnesses were being refused because of the “criteria” , there’s also jobs bridge which is another dubious legacy they left behind. Sigh!! I could go on!
@Edmond Mc Grath: Labour will long be remembered for Gilmore pre election promises; ” Labours way of Frankfurts way” – well we all know where that led us !
A criminal investigation needs to occur into the water corruption, in particular Alan Kelly and that other fool Hogan. It needs to happen. This whole “company” was nothing but a filthy, corrupt cesspit and nothing to do with actual water. Thankfully the public had the sense to stand up to this corruption and put these corrupt simpletons back in their box.
How about jail??
I don’t think labour are left wing at all. I think if they pulled out, they would have kept more seats instead they kept signing off FGs policies without saying a word. Labour have a history of joining up with FG and DOB.
Every debate, budget and manifesto from Fine Gael should always start with the line, “Once you start charging, people will simply accept it.”
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/water-charges-reminds-labour-of-every-little-hurts-stunt-1.1764247
Perhaps Howlin could look at that link and tell us what he supported…or stopped. Would love to see him explain that poster……again.
He certainly chose the wrong party.
Watch as the same folks who made a killing from IW turn their attention to the rural broadband rollout.
I see that Eir, Enet and Siro are the three bidders. Is there a connection between IW and one of these?
It would be good to know!
The rural broadband rollout – hasn’t that been rolling around Leinster House for years now? A programme that wouldn’t be compulsory, one that people actually want? Ha! You think they’ll ruin that as well? Hope not. I swear, if we lived in a desert, our politicians would find a way to run out of sand, then fine us for importing concrete.
Yes you are right. We all made mistakes. Voting for and trusting Labour to look after the rights of the ordinary people was a bigger one. As the Who sang “we won’t fooled again”.
Yes we will be fooled again, just look at Fianna Fáil slithering their way back
I think you’re over-estimating our collective intelligence. It’s like the opposite of synergy
Hiwlin still gas not learned his lesson, Irish water is dead, as his party will be if he continues to think people are sheep and will meekly follow, never again !
@Gus Sheridan:
But people are sheep Gus. How else could Labour retain seven seats, including Burton’s ffs?
Go back under your rock labour, should be in a kennel next to Fine Gaels big offices after all ye are lap dogs for them and sold out the people and yourselves , cry me a river
For Joan Burton: “A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear. The traitor is the plague.” –Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106 BC – 43 BC
@Chris: For many Joan Burton will be remembered for JobBridge, slave labour which sent thousands of our best graduates to emigrate for the chance of a decent paid job somewhere else – my own son included !
Brendan,
Ye had a chance to make things different but you did not
@Anastasia: He didn’t because he was happy playing Punch & Judy with Noonan during previous budgets. A total muppet in all respects who got carried away with power.
“Clearly, the whole water issue was a mistake,” says Howlin now.
But Irish Water wasn’t a mistake. I am absolutely convinced we needed a single national utility to deliver water
Jesus, He can`t even keep it together for an interview,
Totally ironic.spot on onemanbabnned .even the report is a ridiculous contradiction.
It’s also the public’s fault Labour failed – so says Leader Brendan Howlin.
In the daily Fine Gael newsletter, formally called the Irish Independent, Howlin said his party’s disastrous election happened in part because “many Irish people had stopped listening to Labour.”
Who can blame people for turning off from Labour, with all the crap they have pulled – and continue to pull including matters related to #AppleTax, bullied in water meters and Irish Water recharging – never mind the €64 BILLION bank debt they also slapped the public with?
Labour have the stupidity and the arrogance to think its also the public’s fault they failed?
If only they had that much balls to stand up instead, to Fine Gael and the EU previously! No – they decided to take a once left-wing party to the right – repeatedly!
Labour – talking schite and still spinning their crap down upon a nation!
The people of Ireland are DAMN RIGHT to stop listening to their crap. Any person willing to join Labour is a god-damn fool!
On the last day of the Labour ‘think-in’ Brendan Howlin has said that as the party leader, he would be happy to work with Fianna Fail if it moved more to the left. Thats nice isn’t it?
Seeing as Labour has been for the last five years, pushing EU right-wing policies and Fine Gael right-wing policies – how about Labour try moving to the left where it should always have been in the first damn place!
Labour hopes to increase its membership numbers to 8,000. For the moment, I think they are living in a dream-world of their own making on this. This is not to say they won’t do it – just in order to do it, the amount of PR spin, the repeated buckets of forthcoming crap thrown out to achieve it, are going to be sky high!
Don’t forget that Labour too is rejecting the #Appletax €13 Billion that’s owed to the people – while Labour was also party to ramming on people, a €64 Billion bank debt that civilians had NO part in creating in the first place.
Like other parties, Labour too seems to think we are all beneath them and complete thick! They are sure treating us this way? How? Well Howlin’s latest statement is that he believes a free water allowance should be given to families, with charges for any excess used (same thinking as Green Party, also supporting the multiple recharge racket!).
Hang on though… If memory serves me right and I’m not going senile, when the Irish Water racket was first started, FG and Labour stated the people would get a water allowance – but then they sneakily withdrew it without any public announcement! Now Labour is not only u-turning again – but trying on the same PR stunt allowance once more!
(NOTE: In order to get this allowance, you will of course, have to register with Irish Water, enter into a legal contract, sign your name thus giving Irish Water your legal recognition of them – thus allow them to recharge you – and admit against yourself that you are liable for this recharge!)
Just how thick do they think we, the public, are?
It’s just one more OLD POLITICS sly stunt, one after another. Labour admits they made mistakes in the past? They are STILL making them – and we are STILL seeing them!
They haven’t changed much at all. Just the PR crap is being reworded or regurgitated!
Labour members and supporters can go away! My feelings have not changed there either…
Don’t forget how Joan gave IW permission to take your PPS number. Transparency lost it way just a little bit there
We need to start mentally evaluating the likes of Phil hogan,Brian Hayes,Alan Kelly before their given these powers.Irish politics would be in a far healthier place if we did.
“Fine Gael were of the view that, no, no, once you started charging, people would simply accept it.”
A bit like Enda and FG’s lapdog like roll over compliance to Merkel and the EU’s orders. Angela says don’t burn the bondholders and Enda says no problem. EU says shoulder 42% of the burden, Noonan rolls over immediately. All so they can get a nice big EU job when they have finished selling out their country.
Seriously Brendan, you expect people to forgive you and the Labour party because you misread the mood of the people? Allow me to inform you that misreading the mood of the people was not the problem, it was your collective abandonment of your so called party principles, the abandonment of your years of opposition political rhetoric, presenting yourselves as the voice and champions of the people of Ireland. Your collective party tactics of refusing to answer any question put to you in the Dail, and cynically running down the clock using time wasting rubbish, as if it was some incocequncial game you were engaged in, not inflicting austerity measures which were impacting on the lives and fate of the people of Ireland. You personally effectively ran the country, along with Enda Kenny, Joan Burton and Micheal Noonan during the term of the last government and now you want to be forgiven and be welcomed as new improved Labour. Don’t hold you breath!
Very well said…
So populist politics ( democracy in other words ) is something to be avoided at all costs. We are to place our trust in a government that ham fisted it’s way to setting up yet another bloated utility and threatening the country so that all people would be pursued through court to pay for it. Gotcha howlin.
When public hanging was banned there was a rioting in the streets. you can’t give the baying crowd everything they want.
Yes it’s exactly the same issue I suppose. Those well thought out and reasoned opinions must be wiped out.
So why did ye not listen instead of adopting the we know better attitude an the ARROGANCE we will never forget. Don’t say ye did not relies how hurting the people were in the local elections ye had a near wipe out take the second city Cork not 1 Labour candidate elected. But don’t worry now ye have all qualified for yer vulgar pensions off into the sunset with the LABOUR PARTY.
They are the least credible party in Leinster house. They will never get left wing voters back. The centre is disappearing at a rapid rate. There is no shortage of right wing parties. Do your sums Labour and vanish.
Funny how he didn’t actually stop it! Oh wait would a massive loss in salary have anything to do with it.
Wonderful to see that razor sharp political intellect at work. Clown.
Betrayed the people , let there be no mistake ,no way back for the traitors next election we will get rid of some more of the rats.
So….Irish water was a mistake but you’ll stick with it anyway.
Lesson learnt = 0
That’s 7 TD’s too many. Turncoats deserved to be consigned to history as a lesson in abandoned policies & people. They should all be ashamed till their dying day.
Labour let the paye down
Liebour , says it all…
The funniest thing about this article is Mr Howlin is under the illusion that his party is still relevant. Burton / Gilmore & his tiny self have cannibalised their party. He was all too willing to support FG’s agenda to the detriment of Labour supporters. Water charges is one mistake among many; far too late now Mr Howlin for contrition. Labour are dead – rip.
So basically Labour have learned nothing from their defeat. To use the old Fianna Fail excuse “we made mistakes”. Alan Kelly was a fair reflection of the attitude in the Traitor party. As for “misread the mood” Labour were told on a daily bases how the mood was and choose to ignore it.
All this piece does is show us that even after such an election defeat the Traitor party still the same party.
Excited ministerial pension grabbers party. Sacrificing the party for greed. The true colors of the majority of politicians in Ireland. All that’s is left is two faced hypocrites.
No Brenden people voting for the Labour Party was a big mistake.. not to be repeated
Maybe if their party had of taking heed of what the people wanted. But like anything the only time you regret something is when your caught out. Howlin of all people was one Pxxxk in power.
What a load of horsesh##. Too for next time you take on a major project, the costing gets done at the planni g stage before you waste best part of two thousand million euro on a billing system that is no longer in use. Metering doesn’t help conservation as seen in UK. When you expect people above their allowance it was always going to be some rate to cover the costs. But of course it is other peoples money you are spending. Didn’t take the populist line. Didnt take the sensible line.
It shouldn’t matter what the issue is, if the people don’t want it and the people are sovereign, then that’s democracy working. Don’t be surprised if you get your ass handed to you by the electorate. Its not rocket science.
Philtronics
Just go f##k right off labour..you’s are a f##king cancer on society..mistakes my f$$king arse..you’s are not kids but elected supposedly competent people..you knew f##king only too well what you’s were doing while in government..7 seats for ffs..a message to the journal please.why are you giving these 7 seater people time ????
Brendan howlin..is there a more arrogant patronising short arsed little jerk in the whole of Ireland ??? Who voted for this ahole
Howlin and the rest of them are undemocratic. If the majority of people vote for a particular issue that’s called the will of the people not populism, if you ignore that and you just do what you as a party want that’s sliding into dictatorship. I don’t trust howlin at all, he’s a sneaky character and there’s plenty of footage of him giving the electorate the two fingers. He’s incapable of having a debate out in the open with the public and hides in Leinster house where he pontificates. As you can gather I dislike him I’d say as much as Kelly, rabbitt and Burton.
They really made a pig’s ear of it Labour.
From a hugely promising position in Irish politics to obscurity in a few short years.
At least the stringent tones of that shrieking harpy have been silenced.
Close the door behind you Brendan as you ain’t ever seeing my vote again.. shower of lying backstabbers who didn’t want to lift their heads from the trough as the country suffered
Sadly, Irish Labour has become one big mistake, full stop. Somehow basing your existence on a lighter shade of blue from FG was never going to work.
After reading that interview I’d be surprised if they didn’t lose more seats in the next election. Or are there still people stupid enough to give them their vote.
Labour has no credibility,they binned the party’s founding principles for power and sacrificed their own voters,working people and the vulnerable in society.familys are passing that on to their children,their grandchildren,never,never,vote for the labour party.
Clearly politics in it current form is a mistake!
In a week where an eighty year old woman dies on a trolley in a corridor due to overcrowding at Galway hospitals A+E the Mail on Sunday reveals that the Irish ambassdor to Japan that his apartment in Tokyo costs 46k a month……….the FF/FG/lab cartel should be taken out of the Dail and individually hosrewhipped.
Noonan going around whispering the country has no money…….plenty of money if your in the golden circle……tossers
Deputy Howlin must be joking.His party were strong defenders of the water charges.Their Education minister caused havoc in the sector attempting in particular trying to get rid of counselling for 2nd level students.Joan Burton cut disability allowances,job seekers allowances, the old age pension, electricity and phone allowances for the elderly.Joan even got rid of the berievement grant. Neither LABOOUR nor FINE Gael would even leave the dead alone.
Labour’s arrogance will never be forgotten.The electorate got rid of them.Hopefully they never return
Gerry Malone Dundalk
“Politics – that is the way the game works out sometimes, sums up all that is rotten in Irish politics. Playing party politics placing people on state or semi state boards because they are paid up party member. Qualifications mean nothing when party leaders want to play games with people’s futures. This man can’t find his way out of a closet, makes himself leader of labour by default no voting allowed and now must somehow save labour for a trashing in the next local and European elections. Here is a man given the Labour Party leadership just to stop Alan Kelly for totally destroying the party. They failure of the Labour Party in goverment and how they drenched themselves at every opportunity in taxpayer money will not be forgotton. These champagne socialist are back fighting, trying to change history about how they failed to support workers. From Joan kissing Dennis’s ring at the NY stock exchange to kelly loosing it on a power high, who will every forget the traitors in labour who turned it into the liebour party, a right wing Tory party who threw away there history for more pensions. As an electorate we are getting smarter the snake oil salesmen’s will find it must harder to keep playing there dangerous games.
He was such a big man once.
If you have not marched against Irish Water with us shame on you.
This is opposition politics (“It was a mistake.”). Like FF, Labour are playing the public on water charges. If either gets back into government, whatever they said in opposition will be sacrificed to “urgent pressing economic/fiscal situation.” This is the same party who claimed what they were doing was always prudent, even when it contradicted what they said before March 2011, or when they were happy to start ‘give-away budgets’ again in the last 18 months before the last general election. How’s that commitment to doing equality and poverty evaluations of budgets coming along Brendan? Back on the agenda again? Just wait for a heart-warming re-discovery of social values and citizens welfare from FG whenever they go back into opposition.
It’s not the charge I have an issue with, it’s the massive quango set up to oversee it. If the Politicians still don’t understand this, then they are not fit to be in office.
Three broad groups of people in IW debate. The compliant media told us two. Firstly the people who accepted IW for what it was . No challenging to see if they were getting value, no idea on future costs. Plenty of them on here. Second group was the we already pay. Mis use of monies provided needs accountability. Plenty on here. And the third ignored by media group. The silent majority. People who look at the cost of the quango. The inept management. The cost of maintaining the billing system. Withheld payment as well. Howlin expected people to roll over. The highly paid advisors all missed the obvious. We will unfortunately have to add the lost monies to the national debt. They won’t learn the lesson though. They IW goodies have already been carved out and promised.
Alan Kelly made no mistake, he failed to submit our water charge exemption on time. Teneo.
@Cormac Laffan: Opps, sorry about the teneo there, obvious meant teneo reasons Al missed the exemption deadline, not teneo.
Bunch of fcuking traitors
And the Jobstown trials are another, thanks Joan…
Howlin is like one of those idiot gamblers you hear in the pub. “aw, I was going to back that one, but I went with the other one”. You made your choice Brendan, now deal with the consequences.
If u are looking for forgiveness then u better forget it we will never forgive The Labour Party u betrayed all the Irish workers for your Mercedes
How could he sit beside Hogan…
Looking at the evidence against the young lad….it’s hard to believe they have any case against him…..talk about stretching circumstance!
The problem with Labour is similar to the problem with Labour in the UK – the public want a Real Labour Party there but all they’ve got is Blairite Tories – Corbyn is fighting tooth and nail to bring back a real Labour movement! In Ireland however there is no such battle – we have Blueshirts like Alan Kelly there and the rest have become over privileged and simply don’t know what being Socialist means!! They have become so cocooned in their own comfortable lifestyles that they don’t know what it is like to try to survive on low incomes with kids and a mortgage! They are finished- there is no Corbyn here, just opportunist Blueshirt like figures like Alan Kelly ! Zero hours contracts, the living wage, reducing working hours, increasing holidays, tackling housing, enabling families with one parent at home to survive without insisting they both work and farm their kids out to child minders for most of the kids childhood – Labour have destroyed the social fabric of this nation instead of tackling these areas!! Denmark has a 30hr working week, estimated minimum wage of €16 per hour, more holidays, free education from cradle to grave including payments for those attending 3rd level education, free healthcare for all including dentistry – these are the type of things we need – not a policy of bleeding the poor dry until thousands end up homeless living on the streets! The Irish Labour party are an Utter disgrace! !!
@David Grey: The Danish didn’t put 30 billion for a development bank onto their debt. ILP have no backbone at all.
Nah Brendan, don’t you worry about the ordinary people. Your hefty wages and expenses (and pensions) will keep you in smoked salmon and champagne while the people who trusted you can go to a Labour sanctioned food bank. Sure Joan loved opening them!
clearly labour have moved into opposition mode. soon they will be outdoing ff sf aaa pbp in the populist stakes. In 6 months they will be promising free beer. If the get into government again they will have to govern again. that’s politics
As long as Labour back Irish water and as long as they keep that Muppet Kelly in any important portfolio I will never vote for them. Tipperary let the country down badly by electing Alan Kelly and for that matter Lowry. Kerry did the same by electing ANY Healy Rae’s
Labour were more dangerous than FF and FG. Labour was a party that comprised their principles. They exposed themselves as fraudsters and seemed to have enjoyed doing it. Labour will never recover they had a devout core following that will never trust them again. It’s sad they had a chance to establish themselves as the undisputed power house.
You going into government was a massive mistake, but then you have secured a vulgar pension.
Irish Water. Founded by liars
May 4, 2014
Brendan Howlin’s election “Manifesto” (tissue of false promises) during Irish Labour party election campaign.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdp2pGo4SeE
During the Economic Management Council (EMC) meeting in November 2014, Howlin says he and Eamon Gilmore “fought trenchantly” for charges not to be introduced until all the metering was completed
Keep the water charge and get rid of that “temporary” USC, water charge at least is fair as hits everybody but USC a hit at WORKING people who have kept this Country going for the past few years, time to give us something back now
Labour is to all intents and purposes dead. It’s few remaining members are mostly young idealistic uber liberal students. It spectacularly capitulated to FG once in power. Its elected reps ignored the warning of its more principled members that it would end in disaster. In fact, Labour rejoiced in austerity. This was very obvious on the likes of social media where its fans went all out to attack those who held left wing positions as ‘populists’ Alan Kelly’s victory celebrations were weird, putting Cahill in the Seanad silly beyond belief. Their move to a new HQ a complete balls up. As for Irish Water and housing…. If you look at pictures of the Labour think in, there’s only ever a handful of people present. Still they persist in handing ‘front bench’ jobs to defeated TD’s like Stagg and Tuffy, who were emphatically rejected by the electorate. They have no appeal to potential new supporters. Can’t see any way back for them.
I recall the very same sentiments being spoken about FF after the 2011 election and yet here they are the most popular party.
Would agree here with Bernie O Connor. Keep water charge and rid the USC. Water should be paid for. Why have Business/Commercial/Farmers paying for it and not households. I pay 200 euro standing charge before ever drawing a litre of water. And now the 100 euro water grant is scrapped even for us who still pay commercial charge and for those maintaining a private water supply.
A private water supply? You don’t own the raw materials. Or collect rainwater without IW permission.
@nousername FF actually got rid of a lot of Bertie’s mob, even if it was only for optics. Labour still have their jaded old guard like Howlin and Burton. They also don’t have the membership base FF have. Neither are they as cute as FF. And if anything Labour are more arrogant than FF, which is some achievement. FF, FG and Labour…it’s like being offered shooting, drowning or poisoning
@Valthebear: FF are being led by Micheal Martin, Brian Cowen’s brother is now in the fold – you don’t get anymore old guard then that.
Burton is heading out to pasture and you yourself said that the remaining members are mostly young idealistic uber liberal students.
If FF can change (while still being led by one of those who sat at the table when this country was being washed down the tubes), then so can Labour – I don’t see why they can’t – or at least give the optics, that’s all I am saying.
I genuinely recall people burying FF after 2011, the best case scenario was 3 or 3 elections out in the cold – and that did not happen.
@nousername Agree to a point. But Labour’s organisation is collapsing. They are so desperate to deny this that they are crowing about the new members they recruited at various freshers weeks. Up and down the country, unlike ff or fg, they have lost hundreds of formerly loyal canvassers. This is coupled with the fact that the old guard just won’t let go and allow an organic local membership to be given senior positions. The newer Dublin 4 type members won’t have the stomach for involvement in bread and butter local politics. Their ‘brand’ is so tainted that not even a new Jeremy Corbyn style clear out would rehabilitate them.
@Valthebear: Well Labour did all but collapse and I see where you are coming from, but Joan Burton and Alan Kelly held their seats, which amazed everyone, so that core vote for them is still there.
There is always an upside to seeing your party decimated and that is room for new blood, new ideas, fresh thinking and I think Brendan Howlin is playing it very well here, he has nothing to lose and he can go for broke, add to that, it takes some balls to still support a single water utility and that will attract a lot of people who gave FF their votes.
I would say there will be an election in the next 12 months, and that will be the real test.
These chaps in the Dail need to grasp a few basic principles of Taxation:-
- Tax must be by consent
- Tax must be progressive … more you can afford more you pay .. PAYE is a good example
- Tax must not be proportional (A Smith 1794!) .. flat tax is not fair tax.
- Tax must not be regressive … poor should not pay more than the rich .. as is the case in Irish Car Tax system!!!!
- Tax must be based on ability to pay … not so for LPT, Water Tax … Car Tax …
Unless they grasp this then political and social instability will continue …
Only themselves to blame for their own failure.
Labour did not stand with the people,there is little point now saying that the introduction of water charges should have been postponed.
The dogs of the street knew what was was coming down the tracks for labour.Did Brendan Howlin not understand the message sent by voters during the local and European elections?Why did he not listen to those of us who warned the party would almost be wiped out if we continually pursued the policies that took money from the pockets of the poor,the sick and the pensioners.
I see the hard left are out in force sticking the knife in. Us centrists are an easy target these days, loudest vessels to the hard left & hard right.
Of course, we all know which vessels make the most noise…,
@Colm Flaherty:
They can’t afford to really, not when they utterly failed to capitalise on Labour’s losses.
@Colm Flaherty Nothing to do with hard left, right or centre. It’s about having principles that you stick to, not flitter away at the first scent of power Or is that what you just do during elections..
Pure deflection Colm. Labour have wasted huge money on a quango. Play politics if you must.
Pity Howlan wasn’t asked to explain some of the cruelest decisions he made in Government. The first being the Women’s Refuge in his own home town of Wexford being closed because of Government cuts. And the whole Government knowingly ignoring the plight of the homeless as more and more families became homeless over the 5 years of his Government making that Government the most heartless in my living memory.
Slow learner howling, the country needs fast learners to run the country
@Dave Hammond: “Amazeballs”…You seriously don’t use that word in everyday life ,do ya Dave ? Leave that talk to the kids !
Free the Journal 50
Labour wanted to go into Govt to try and sort out the country and that is a admirable ambition but as a party Labour became too arrogant and punished the people you have represented for years. You are now left with 7 TD’s and like FF of old you need clearing out and new blood. It saddens me that our local TD was such a failure he never delivered to our constituency although he had ability but its now too late he was lucky/unlucky to have won the last labour seat, I think he would have rather lost the seat and took the pension at least then someone would have benefited in our constituency. Unless Labour wakes up it will be the PD’s/Green Party either gone or a two seat party .
How Sad
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