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WITH ALL PLANNED strikes called off this afternoon, it looks like the industrial dispute at Dublin Bus may be approaching a resolution.
But the debate over pay and conditions for public transport workers will not be ending any time soon.
On RTE’s Prime Time last week, Patricia Callan, head of the Small Firms Association, pointed to what she saw as the damage being done to businesses in the capital, by the strike, and made this claim:
We have the third-highest paid city bus drivers in Europe.
Is that true?
Claim: Dublin Bus drivers are the third-highest paid in Europe
Verdict: Mostly TRUE
What was said:
During the course of a debate with Dermot O’Leary, from the National Bus and Railworkers’ Union (NBRU), and others, Callan said:
We are in a small, open economy, so we always have to have an eye to what’s happening internationally, in terms of similar economies…
We have the third-highest paid city bus drivers in Europe. The third-highest. Why would one [a bus driver] here by higher than places like London and Stockholm?…Why would that be justified?
In response, O’Leary said:
You know, the counter-argument to that is very simple – it’s cost of living increases in this country.
You can watch the debate in full, here.
In response to our request for evidence, Patricia Callan directed us to the 2015 Prices and Earnings report by the Swiss bank UBS.
It found that, out of 71 global cities surveyed, bus drivers in Dublin had the 13th highest gross salary ($39,015.80 or €35,114.22 based on the 1 January 2015 exchange rate).
Dublin bus drivers had the 6th-highest gross salary out of 34 European cities, and the third-highest out of 31 cities in the EU.
It’s clear from Patricia Callan’s response, and the evidence she cited, that she was referring to the EU, rather than “Europe”, although this is the term she actually used.
Notwithstanding this, there is another difficulty.
Gross earnings are earnings before tax and other provisions are deducted. So to get a fuller picture of the net earnings of bus drivers and their EU counterparts, we’ve done our best to calculate the effective rate of income tax among bus drivers in Europe.
In many cases, the actual tax paid by an individual is dependent on their individual circumstances, marital status, and so on, so these figures should be treated with some caution.
For details on tax rates and sources, you can download a spreadsheet at the end of the article.
As it happens, Dublin’s bus drivers rank 6th in Europe and 3rd in the EU according to these figures, too.
The UBS gross earnings rankings don’t include every single city in Europe, although they do analyse data from 34 cities in 29 countries.
Allowing for this, as well as any potential imprecision in our adjusted, after-tax rankings, and the use of “Europe” rather than “EU” in Callan’s statement, we rate this claim Mostly TRUE.
Although Callan’s claim is largely accurate, income should really be evaluated in the context of other factors, especially cost of living, as the NBRU’s Dermot O’Leary alluded to on Prime Time.
Here are two rankings of European cities and countries with the highest cost of living in 2015.
From the Economist Intelligence Unit (Cities in the EU are in bold):
1. Zurich 2. Geneva 3. Paris 4. London 5. Copenhagen 6. Oslo 7. Helsinki 8. Frankfurt 9. Vienna 10. Dublin
And from the OECD (EU countries are in bold):
1. Switzerland 2. Norway 3. Denmark 4. Sweden 5. Iceland 6. UK 7. Finland 8. Luxembourg 9. Ireland 10. Netherlands
So the average income of Dublin’s bus drivers ranks a bit above Dublin and Ireland’s cost of living rankings, but not by much.
To download a spreadsheet containing all the relevant data, click here.
TheJournal.ie’s FactCheck is a signatory to the International Fact-Checking Network’s Code of Principles. You can read it here.
For information on how FactCheck works, what the verdicts mean, and how you can take part, check out our Reader’s Guide here.
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85k to drive a bus in Luxembourg? Holy cr@p
Believe cost of living is higher there.
D8 O Neil How do you believe that First one come to mind car insurance
Everything is higher there
Luxembourg is 8th in Europe Ireland is 9th. It’s in the article.
While I can’t comment on Dublin, I can comment on London having driven a double decker (old route master with a conductor) for a number of years, it is a very stressful job (and I omly had to drive) and not very well paid you could be physically fighting with other car drivers every day. That is not even taking into account other busses doing the same route, who make the job even more difficult for you. ” the old saying you half an hour for a bus the two or thre come together is (or was) true” …this was true , they had a saying ” an empty bus us a happy bus” the bus service was run for the bus crews and unfortunately they had to pick up passangers as a byproduct of going b up and down the road. Things have (probably) changed by the introduction of GPS as the controller can now tell exactly where a particular bus should be at a given time…..
It’s a small country. Live across the border in France, Belgium or Germany. Or at least cross the border for shopping.
@Bill: Things have not changed at all in Dublin; these comedians turn up whenever they please, if at all. They are frequently abrupt and rude to customers. Two weeks ago, for asking the driver what was the delay after the bus turned up twenty minutes late two stops from the start of the route, I was told curtly, “It’s nothin to do with me.” When I patiently pointed out that in fact it had everything to to with him, I was told, “Ah, will ya ever f*ck off!”. These people are overpaid, underworked, self-entitled, unaccountable ignoramuses; the whole lot of them should be sacked, I’m sure it wouldn’t be hard to find plenty of unemployed people who would be chuffed to do the job for the reasonsble wage they get. Id the drivers feel they need better pay to bankroll their lives and lifestyles, they should do what everyone else has to: retrain and change career instead of sitting on their arses with their fat grasping paws out for a gimme..
You were probably the umpteenth person to ask. Traffic, delays happen. It is annoying but then you can only Control arrivals with rail
“Ah will ya ever f*ck off!” Real Dublin love it. Take a cab Daffy ya winger
A 20 minute delay over the distance of two stops? This is a regular occurrence.. Yeah, great service alright, with the excellent people skills you’d expect from such a great service..
And why the fvck should I even have to entertain the idea of a cab when I’ve already been ripped off up front for an annual leap card? Shouldn’t DB just provide the service they’re amply paid for?
@Daffy the Bear: ah you special snowflake. Are you looking at the timetable or the real time app. If you have an issue complain to DB itself. Don’t moan on a here. I would hardly call, on top of that, an annual leap card a rip off? it costs you €3.60 a day for unlimited bus travel.
@Keith Gregg: You can belittle others all you want. This doesn’t make dublin bus any better.
(this atitude actually show why DB will never be any better)
@Dan Dan: Eh what are you talking about Dan? I’m in no way affiliated with DB. DB however HAS gotten much better since the company put in productivity measures, like cross city routes, and electronic signs and real time. Ergo, DB has improved, and your statement is flawed.
@Daffy the Bear: I complained a lot to DB before I drove buses for them. After driving buses for 10 years +, I think I have a lot more to complain to DB about than any customer has. The driver was certainly rude to say that but how did you treat him first. From the content of your comments describing bus drivers like animals, I doubt you treated him with any respect.
You obviously haven’t considered the fact that the bus wasn’t late at all as there may have been a problem with the previous bus not showing for operational reasons like no available driver or bus, breakdowns, traffic delay etc. Instead you just arrogantly blame the driver harassing them with nonsense. If you have a complaint about a bus not showing, DB have a complaint number and email. The driver is not there for you to antagonise with your accusations that they must be to blame. Drivers are also not unaccountable. It is DB management and supervisors who seem to be unaccountable. I know this well. You haven’t a clue what drivers endure to provide a service to the often abusive public. Do you piss in a bottle at your job? I’m sure you don’t.
Plenty of passengers are rude and abrupt so where can I go to complain about them?
Go drive a bus and then you would see differently. Instead you just like to have someone to abuse. You’re the ignoramus.
You don’t need to fact check our politicians to know they are way over paid by comparison… But do it for the laugh..
If Enda Kenny needs more than Barack Obama then it must be the cost of living.
@Ian James Burgess: He doesn’t and far from it but it’s an often repeated bit of nonsense!
That was the point, I was being sarcastic, reform must start at the Top
@Reg: It’s true that he doesn’t earn as much as the POTUS but he is paid more (€185,685), than the UK PM (€185,237), the French President, (€180,278), the PM of Finland (€179,388), the President of Finland (€161,154), The PM of Portugal (€79,482), and the PM of Poland (€45,665).
At 4.5ml, Ireland has, by far, the smallest population of any of these EU countries, and yet, our leaders pay themselves far in excess of what their counterparts do. Great when you get to make the rules, eh Reg?
Its brutal the way people, nurses, guards, ect ect have to go on strike in this country to get a decent living wage!
There are hundreds of thousands in the private sector who could only dream of getting the wage a nurse or guard gets!
Not too many private sector nurses dreaming of what a public sector nurse makes…
PaulJ There are hundreds of thousands in the private sector willing to do nothing while the rest Dublin bus drivers amongst them are paying through the nose in tax to keep idle hands happy .
True..and they don’t have the strike power that public sector have ..but they will have to pay for all these increases from there already squeezed income..
Alan what are you talking about??? Are you saying the private sector are not willing to strike, or are you trying to say unemployed people are in the private sector, or what exactly are you trying to say because it’s not very clear!
There is no comparison between private sector jobs and many of the public sector jobs, yet people regularly make these statement’s. Take firefighters, garda, nurses etc. No one in the private sector has a working day that can compare to these professions. The private sector also has many jobs, such as those in the hospitality sector, fast food, cleaners etc which are low paid. This has the effect of bringing average wages down, so this private v public sector argument which comes up in these comments section is in most cases without basis. BTW, it started when the govt needed to divide and conquer the general work force to facilitate the payment of vast sums of money to banker gamblers who were given a no lose bet.
@Aural Abuse: are you saying that you would rather work as a cleaner or working in a fast food resteraunt than a nurse or garda
No, I wasn’t. Not sure where you got that impression.
Next up: Dublin Bus loses all of its current drivers who’ve gone to work in Zurich!
@Shane Corry: Then hopefully we would get some new drivers that aren’t looking for another 15% over here.
That 30% they’re after now?
Are you chatting to yourself Shane :-/
So tell me when exactly the NBU and any transport union were interested in the facts?
FactCheck: Does this Dublin Bus drivers’ leaflet stand up to scrutiny? http://jrnl.ie/2967501
Cost of living here is highest in Europe so it balances out. Gardaí will be next to strike. Cough cough blue flu.
Gardaí are next to strike ..and I don’t think it’s going to be the flu either clancey
@Garda Daz Topaz: Not even close.
@Garda Daz Topaz:
Did you actually read the article?
@Garda Daz Topaz: Read the article again, cost of living here is 10th highest;
Here are two rankings of European cities and countries with the highest cost of living in 2015.
From the Economist Intelligence Unit (Cities in the EU are in bold):
1. Zurich
2. Geneva
3. Paris
4. London
5. Copenhagen
6. Oslo
7. Helsinki
8. Frankfurt
9. Vienna
10. Dublin
No the cost of living here is not the highest in Europe. Read the article or Google it if you’re too lazy…
Dublin 8th in most expensive city in Europe
http://uk.businessinsider.com/glassdoor-economic-research-cost-of-living-in-cities-index-2016-5
Any unhappy bus driver on that wedge & benifits can swop with me, on feck all with no benifits. The lads don’t know how good they have it.
You didn’t even read the article FFS!
Fact-sheet doesn’t mention anything about the Clerical, maintenance and Supervisor grade staff at DB who were also on strike. No mention of DB Inspectors who do hardly f* ck all already on 65K (with OT potential lifting this to 100K) looking for more also for minimal unskilled data entry with lots of chats and watching football in the control room.
Next time you get your Nitelink, just observe how little these supervisors actually do. Is standing around chatting work? The drivers labour takes in all the money and the drivers are the only DB staff constantly in the firing line for abuse and criticism.
Cost of living is massively and exponentially much higher in the countries listed above Ireland in that graph. In layman terms, our bus drivers are making a killing. We couldn’t be more left and socialist if we tried. Next stop, Venezuela. Oh, did I say stop. Oops.
@Gavin Scott: Evidence?
Is this going to be our winter of strikes?
Why is a survey of European bus drivers wages based in US Dollars?
Curious that this article didn’t come out until the dispute looked like it was resolved
Meanwhile, 25 counties look on with mild interest. What percentage of the population live in Dublin, how much is spent on public transport, is this service nationwide, am I asking frivolous questions, are we even mildly interested?
Why do boggers always have a chop on their shoulder about Dublin?
Chip
Did you ask Patricia Callan what is the average salary of the people she represents ? Also do the members of her organisation have facilities to write off tax eg vat ? She might not be as forthcoming with that kind of private sector information.
How much is Patrica earning
COST OF LIVING YOU SAPS
@mr magoo:
READ THE ARTICLE SAPS
Until the Dublin rental and housing crisis is addressed we will I’m afraid have lots more strikes
Isn’t this all relative. You can earn 100k a year but need 90% of that to survive. It’s about the standard of living and your return on the taxes you pay on infrastructure, health care, child care ect ect…
Lock out. Smash the unions once and for all before they sink the country Again and for good with unsustainable pay and pensions!!
All wages need to be contrasted with the cost of living in the country to reflect accuracy
Driving a bus is hard work and requires a good skill set of people skills, judgement, good driving obviously. They provide a very important service to almost every family. Comparing them to London — maybe London underpays its drivers so why must we use them as the reference point. Secondly, London has a huge market of would-be drivers, maybe 10 times what we have, so that makes it easier to find good reliable drivers thus you can pay them less as there’s more competition
Well, because if 5000 of them vaporised overnight or 5000 of them decided to leave the country, we’d still be able to find bus drivers. That’s “why”…
How about this!!! How’s does Ireland cost of living compare to its EU counterparts…….
10th – read the article
Good man shits ville!!!
Sure no one is sitting on them, if that’s the money thew expect in Zurich & Luxembourg off you go guys!
Cost of living is hire here and it’s going to get worse after the budget,diesel going up etc,ask Patrica why don’t her people she represent lower there charges on us,get ripped off everythime you shop in Ireland,come on Patrica lower yer charges on us ordinary folk
Who are the highest in income tax
I wonder. Where does Patricia Callan’s remuneration package fit into similar EU/European packages?
What other industry conoatasion looks at the net pay?
We have some of the highest tax rates worldwide, every employee in the state would need a bump in salary.
have your say