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FIVE ADULTS, FIVE children and an unborn baby burned to death on this date last year when a fire broke out at Carrickmines halting site.
The tragic event shocked the country with thousands of people sending condolences, making donations and attending candlelit vigils.
The fire killed Willie Lynch, his partner Tara Gilbert and their two children Jodie and Kelsey, and Willie’s older brother Jimmy Lynch.
It also claimed the lives of Sylvia Connors, Thomas Connors and their three children Jim, Christy and Mary (who was only six months old).
One year on from the fire and the bereaved families are still living in a temporary halting site in a public car park.
Actor, activist and Traveller John Connors told TheJournal.ie, “Them people will never be the same again.
That kind of thing is very hard to get over but also the aftermath and how they’ve been treated and what they were promised after that. They were meant to be housed on a site by now, but they’ve got nothing.
Local residents objected to plans for the bereaved Traveller families to be accommodated at a council owned site beside a housing estate at Rockville Drive on an emergency basis.
Some people even blocked access to the site with their cars.
The Love/Hate actor told this website, “I went down there to try and discuss what the problem was with those people that objected and none of them would have a discussion on camera with me.
It was a field that they had nothing got to do with that the council owned and they objected because they were worried that property prices would go down if Travellers were living next to them and it’s as simple as that.
“What kind of country are we living in that people have no empathy at all after nearly a whole family being burned to death.”
Instead, the families were accommodated at a public car park in what Connors describes as “a former dump beside a dump”.
When you look at even articles TheJournal.ie did on that, if you look at the comments section under the story, you’re talking about hundreds of comments and about 90% of them saying ’10 less knackers’ … that was really, really tough.
Connors added, “the council was at fault” claiming that Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County Council broke its own fire regulations by putting the cabins right next to each other.
“They rigged the electricity outside and put it up against trees. They welded shut the fire hydrant two weeks before the fire because they were wasting too much water.
“The fire brigade couldn’t get to the fire hydrant right outside the site and had to go a mile down to plug in which was a loss of three or four minutes where they could actually have saved a life.
Most people don’t know this and guess what? Most people don’t care.
In response to these comments Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County Council told TheJournal.ie that Dublin Fire Brigade used a fire hydrant just 50 metres away from the site.
Addressing the claims about fire regulations and electricity wires being put up along trees, it stated:
“DLRCC undertook major refurbishment work on the Glenamuck Road site in April 2015 – including extensive works on the electrical system on the site. All works were carried out by a competent and accredited electrical contractor, were certified and completed to the relevant standards. At no stage were electrical works undertaken by DLRCC or it’s contractors in the manner alleged [by Connors].”
‘We’re not going anywhere’
Connors said that politicians need to understand that Travellers do not want to be broken up.
“There are evictions happening all the time up and down the country with this new audit thing.
“It’s meant to be a good thing, that we don’t want another Carrickmines tragedy happening, but that actually gives the State the power to evict Travellers again because that’s what they have been doing for the past 50, 60 years.
They keep evicting us with the idea to break us up and put us in houses and assimilate us but we’re never going to give up.
“We’re never going to break up that culture – family is everything to us, that’s what the most important thing is. We had harsh, harsh policies and we’re still here. We’re not going anywhere.”
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There is huge empathy nationwide for this family, don’t know why he’s circling the wagons on that one. That seems to be more of the ‘us’ versus ‘them’ mentality. I’d love to see Connors go a recently abandoned encampment/site and share his thoughts on the litter and mess that these people leave behind. If they don’t like a place, they up and leave and it’s the taxpayers of this country who end up paying for it. I’m sick of hearing about travelling rights when all they do is demand benefits yet they contribute nothing to society.
‘Huge empathy’? It is not empathetic to exclaim how sorry you feel for them and then park your car in front of the emergency accommodation provided. Or to tell us how terrible it was only to suffice it with “in fairness though they do nothing for society”. Skimming the comments section from the orginal articles would make you abhor this nation (if you don’t hate Travellers enough already). Look at this article right now and it’s nothing but vitriolic comments towards the situation. We are just lucky they aren’t black otherwise people across the world would notice.
@Daniel Wilson: Completely agree. The comments made at the time are there for everyone to see. No way to hide it now.
@Coles: “It is not empathetic to exclaim how sorry you feel for them and then park your car in front of the emergency accommodation provided”
Yes; to say the least.
@Petr Tarasov: @daniel wilson and @coles It may not be empathetic. What happened was a tragedy. Ask yourself though if its reasonable to force something on people in a situation where other travellers in the area literally will not have them?
@Rose Fox: and as he said if they were black it would never leave the news. so what your saying is that if a black family got burned in a house fire. the only acceptable accomadation would be with black people.
@gerry o donell: not quite. Regardless of their colour or ethnicity if they choose not to adhere to the law or social decency then they should be held to the same standard as everyone else. Playing the race card doesn’t go one way.
@gerry o donell: Also, I’ve already said repeatedly that it was a tragedy. It should not have happened. What’s being criticised in the comment above are the actions of Rockville residents and that’s what I’m defending. Nobody should have to go through what those people did however equally nobody should be put through the carry on of this particular group. And before you ask me how I know it was them or my neighbours knew…I knew the name of one of those kids for no reason other than the amount of times I chased him back over my gate. Neighbours ring the doorbell. They don’t climb over your boundary fence. And before you say I’m biased, I would give my right arm to give him back his family no matter their behaviour. But that doesn’t change the fact that they did behave in a certain way.
There is a half capacity halting site at the bottom of the Glenamuck road at Leopardstown/Foxrock. Why were the family not moved to there? Because there is a feud between the families. The residents of Rockville were hammered for not allowing the families onto the unsuitable site. The residents down the road got away scot free from criticism despite it being ready made. There is also an empty halting site at the bottom of Killiney Hill, about 5 minutes drive from the tragic site. Why were the family not moved there? Because…….And you’ll like this…..the previous residents deemed it as “cursed”. They burned out a caravan and gutted the houses for copper wiring. Leaving the place uninhabitable and of course “cursed”. I think the site is currently being repaired. The families could have been housed within a week but were not. Connor’s tries to pass the back to us “settled” people. The reality is they would have been housed within the week if his fellow travellers showed compassion or didn’t believe in a “curse”.
@Derek Goulding: Fancy backing up your smeary comment with any evidence. Or are you happy enough trolling a piece about the anniversay of a Traveller family burnt to death. Stay classy Derek.
@Mark Malone: These were reasons put forward by the Council for forcing through emergency permissions to house them in Rockville. Can you provide evidence to the contrary?
@Derek Goulding: I worked on a halting site a few years ago(well about 15) the people were moved to a temporary site beside the original while work was going on, we had to have security on the new site within a week as anything not locked down went missing, the new site was state of the art, block built bright and airy well decorated etc etc the travelers were moved back in after everything was checked by the residents and bar a few minor details everyone was happy, one resident`s caravan had to be replaced as it fell apart when we tried to move it (he would only accept the top of the range mobile) with in one week I had to go back and replace windows in one ( they blew in but the glass was on the outside) a steel door to a small room which housed the top of the range heating and hot water system (the door fell off but the lock was broken and the door had been ripped off) I refused to go back again as all I got from them was abuse….
The degree of security installed at the homes of travellers in Rathkeale to keep their own out speaks volumes
I find it difficult to believe with regard to previous articles about this fire state “about 90% of them saying ’10 less knackers’” but this is something that I imagine can easily be checked, if The Journal staff wanted to that is.
I can’t imagine anyone laughing about anyone’s death in such a manner, especially wee children, I’m sure there will be some ejits who make sick jokes but these fools are very much in the minority and are in no way representative of the rest of society.
John Connors appears to hold the settled and travelling community to two completely different standards, he accuses people of having no empathy following the tragic deaths, yet there was an enormous outpouring of grief throughout the entire country at the time, in all communities. What he means is it didn’t allow the travellers to get what they wanted.
As we’ve seen in recent weeks there are currently in excess of 29,000 people on the housing list in Dublin alone, they can’t pick and choose either, people in need of emergency accommodation take what’s available. As we’re all aware by now this situation isn’t ideal but it’s what we’ve got.
It would be unheard of for any of these people to refuse an offer of accommodation on the basis of a ‘feud’ with a family nearby or because they “do not want to be broken up”. The reality for many families in this situation is they ARE broken up, and accept it as a condition of getting accommodation.
Mr Connors goes on to cite the Review of Fire Safety in Local Authority Provided Traveller Accommodation report which found which was ordered within 3 days of the Carrickmines fire (no empathy, huh?) It found unsafe electrical sockets, lack of fire alarms, overcrowded bays and caravans being too close together is common on most sites. The report noted “in some cases, occupants informed the fire service that they did not wish to be provided with smoke alarms or to have them fitted.
The report makes it very clear that Councils are making every effort to ensure another Carrickmines tragedy never happens again and are trying to educate travellers, make adjustments to the layout of halting sites etc. If only the settled community were so privileged.
And that’s the crux of this argument. The Council will not come into my house, and make the same adjustments, nor to everyone else’s.
When Dundalk Council had to clean up an unofficial halting site – for the third time, and remove 1,100 tons of domestic waste from the site it cost the taxpayer €681,000. What stopped travellers from paying for a bin collection service like everyone else? This case isn’t unique but typifies the privileged traveller “we want” attitude versus the settled “this’ll cost me”, among other things, it’s this that causes so much division.
Mark malone stay naive
Jed I….very good post.
@ Jed. John Connors talks through his nose and also out through another orifice . I have watched his recent documentary as well as another last year on the origins of Travellers and I have come to the conclusion that he is full of wind and speaks nonsense !
@David Conroy: I have no issue with Mr Connors personally or with him representing travellers in general, if he’s going to do this it will have to be fair and balanced. To assert that the nation has no empathy for the deaths is clearly wrong, you only have to look at the images of flowers and gifts left in the days following the fire.
As I said below travellers have the same entitlements that the settled community have, to healthcare, social welfare, housing etc. They are not being denied anything.
If the settled community were to behave as the travelling community do, camp where they please, leave tonnes of waste for councils to clean up at the tax payers expense, leave horses to roam on someone else’s land and run sulky races on roadways claiming it’s part of some obscure ‘culture’, would it be tolerated? Not a chance.
There was a lot nasty comments posted at the time. Very uncalled for
Alive, there was indeed and I clicked on a few of the ‘profules’ who were the comments, let’s just say they were the sc#m of the earth and the brain cells were never in place from the second they were born. The difference between ‘settled’ and traveller people is that the decent settled community will call out the sc#m amongst us and treat them with the disdain they deserve, however, I can’t remember a traveller doing the same and admitting that they have sc#m amongst them. When they are ever asked, it’s usually…’ of course we have problems BUT’…..always a but and usually it’s OUR fault. If the decent travellers stood up against the thugs among them and called them out publicly, they would see how fast the tide would turn and people would back them to the hilt!
Pure rubbish. That story touched the heart of every person in the country. But an accidental fire is not a licence to do whatever you want for the rest of your life
“Pure rubbish. That story touched the heart of every person in the country. But…”
I just knew that ‘but’ was coming.
John, did you not see all the pire vitriol on here at the time?
@Petr Tarasov: You seem to take issue with others commenting on articles such as this one, yet here you are also commenting on the same articles day and night.
The fact is members of the travelling community have the exact same rights as the settled community of this country, healthcare, social welfare, housing etc.
Reverse that and say the settled community are entitled to the same rights as the travelling community, the right to camp anywhere, leave horses on any land available, run sulky races on major roads, etc. No? You and I both know what will happen when anyone from the settled community attempts any of this ‘entitled’ behaviour.
Am I missing something? Why can’t they buy their own land? There are plenty of adults to split the cost and land outside of Dublin is a reasonable price when there’s no building to be done.
Because then they’d be settled I suppose
Or buy their own house.
Because then they’d be responsible for it. If the government or local council sort them out, then they can go back to the government or local council when things go wrong and things need to be done. If the local council provide land, then they’ll have to provide water and electricity etc and have responsibility for the upkeep.
It’s not as simple as just buying a field. They need planning permission to establish a halting site. That’s hard to get as all locals object. The Dale Farm site in the UK belonged to travellers but council wouldn’t grant permission for the site so they were dragged off it and their caravans torn down.
@Expose Media Bias: Despite what Mr. Connors would have us believe, over 80% of travellers live in houses.
@JFN: You are missing something, empathy. If in doubt, stick to the usual rules of social etiquette, ie. Respect for another human beings suffering or loss. It costs nothing.
@Catherine Ryan: Virtually everyone can identify with, can sympathise with and have compassion for those family and friends of the Carrickmines victims. They have empathy.
Social etiquette and respect for other human beings is not just reserved for times of great tragedy but how we interact with others in our day to day lives. From teaching children not to throw litter on the ground, expecting that they’ll grow to have an awareness of their own environment, to instilling a sense of responsibility instead of entitlement. You’re right, it costs nothing.
Jed I… very well said. .
Or pay tax or contribute anything good to society.
Dale farm expanded on to land they didn’t own which was why it was cleared.
While obviously I 100% agree that this was a tragedy, I would like to see some members of the traveling community engage in proper debate and ask why it is that some people would not want to live beside them. In all of these interviews it’s always put down to irrational hatred. Personally I have never had a good experience with a traveller and have had dozens of bad ones. I will still always keep an open mind but they can’t ignore that their reputation has been earned.
@The Guru: I have had good and bad expierences with travellers as I have had with Gardaí, doctors, solicitors and nearly every other person on this planet.
The Guru. I have no doubt you speak the truth. No one wants to live next to travellers. Especially me. Can u imagine my horror when the Council decided to give a house to a traveller family in the housing estate across from me? I was furious. They are living there 3 years now. Beautiful house, garden, very friendly but they keep to themselves. I know there are many people who have has quite the opposite to my experience though but there are good travellers too..
Well johnny boy if my house burnt down I’d be fuc#ed.. I’d have to find my own temporary accommodation and rebuild everything all by my self and i can assure you the council will give me zero assistance.. but ye decide to sit there cribbing at every given opportunity that it’s us against the world and ye eventually get what ye want for nothing and cause destruction everywhere ye go along the way.. Ps get off the tv I’m sick to the teeth off looking at you.
He has a serious bad attitude, culture this and culture that , I’ve heard him on radio shows before he doesn’t like settled people
honestly john there is a lot of people that do have empathy
but i do understand where your coming from .
the media do not help in situations like this. and the government should offer housing & counselling / help to the family’s affected until a time they decide to move on.
i wish the familys affected my deepest sympathies and hope one day they will recover from there terrible loss.
keep up the good work john..
A year passes and the lessons of this fire were only learned by the settled community in the area. Mr O’connor would have you think it was due to property prices that they weren’t welcomed into a site which had back access to a lot of houses. As a resident I can tell you it wasn’t. 4 years later the residents have largely installed cctv and bought big dogs. That’s not because they don’t like travellers. That’s because they don’t like theft. Their own would not have them. They were moved there because of a feud with another traveller family. They couldn’t be rehoused easily for the same reason. The day the traveller community holds itself accountable for its actions will be glorious but judging by this it’s going to be a lot more demonising of the people they already made life hell for. RIP the Carrickmines 10 but leave the neighbours alone.
That should read 1 year later
If the council broke so many laws on fire safety surely the fire report will state that and prosecutions will follow!
Like butter wouldn’t melt.
I work in Carrickmines and have repeatedly seen one of the teenagers from that site robbing in the shops here, get physical with the security guard who stopped him and he even called me ‘a fcking f@ggot’ for stopping him another time. This is why I have no empathy.
@Bantersaurus Rex: Or a real online profile.
Not much of a security guard if the alleged perpretrator is still being allowed in.
How many of them have gone out to find a job in the last year so they can pay for their own house?
Travellers made a good job of breaking into my aul fellas back yard and robbing his chickens for blooding their dogs last year. Some people in this thread don’t seem to get that it’s possible to feel bad for somebody and simultaneously disapprove of their carry on.
Let him buy a piece of land & let them move in beside members of his family.
@Mary Gray: No.
Oh christ, the comments are open.
Well considering the fire brigade used the next water point which was 50m away not a mile and the reason it was welded shut was because of water leaking into the road due to improper use
@Wayne O’Fathaigh: Plus the fire brigade tender already has water on board…they don’t turn up with no water.
“What kind of country are we living in?”
Christ, give me a break. Talking about biting the hand that feeds. Maybe compare the cost of social welfare and housing given to travellers vs the amount of income tax they pay each year?
The attempted construction of a “temporary” halting site was not legal, and fair play to the residents for standing up for their rights, something travellers know all about.
When anyone dies tragically people empathise. However when you’re a closed off community that doesn’t engage with others in a human way it’s hard to express it. I empathise with the traveller children who suffer with Down syndrome and other birth defects. Oh that’s right they’re are none. Must be the genetics
@Dessie Curley: “When anyone dies tragically people empathise. However…”
I could see that ‘however’ coming a mile off!
@Petr Tarasov: You’ve made this comment already. Are you going to add anything else to the discussion, or is your vocabulary limited to snarkiness?
EDIT: scrolled through the rest of the comments. It would seem that Petr’s vocabulary is indeed limited to snarky remarks.
There’s building works going on at the site as we speak
If you’re going to publish hate filled click bait you could at least fact check it.
Awful way to twist the deaths of two families, John is not a good spokesman for this community, the journal should know better at this stage.
A reputation that’s hard earned by the majority of that “community”. It amazes me that they claim to be “tight knit” yet this family were left begging the government and local council for help, those in their own “community” didn’t get involved. The cause has never been confirmed but illegally tampering with the esb supply and build up of rubbish bags and other items (highly flammable) was suspected as being the cause. When those within the halting site are deemed to have been responsible for the fire, through illegal activities, you can understand the attitudes of people. If someone was driving a car drunk and crashed and killed themselves, many people would say it was the driver’s own fault. With rights, comes responsibilities and travellers are not interested in the latter. These “spokespeople” are never seen or heard when their “community” are destroying the lives of others. If they got involved in discussions relating to how travellers can help themselves integrate, maybe the response would be more positive. The reason why people find it so difficult to have an open mind when it comes to travellers is usually because of the severity of their interactions with them.
@Miriam O’Keeffe: “… illegally tampering with the esb supply and build up of rubbish bags and other items (highly flammable) was suspected as being the cause. When those within the halting site are deemed to have been responsible for the fire, through illegal activities, you can understand the attitudes of people.The cause of the fire has been confirmed.”
No, Miriam. It was caused by “an unattended over”. There was no illegal activity that contributed to the tragedy.
You have the right to comment on this tragedy but you also have a responsibilty to be fair and accurate. Is that important to you?
You really are a disqusting person.
’90% of comments on journal.ie’ were giving out about travellers is completely untrue
It’s true now.
He said 90% of comments were like “nine less Travellers” which is complete bullsh!t.
@Margie Murph: I think it’s fair to say that on average there were 9 times more thumbs up to those kind of comments than thumbs down.
Did you give a thumbs up to those comments yourself? I bet you did.
@Coles: no I didn’t. I would never give a thumbs up to a comment that celebrated the death of Travellers. And I’ve no doubt what you’re saying is bogus.
@Margie Murph: I don’t believe you. You seem to spread so much hate with your comments that I think you’d jump at any opportunity to cause a little more hurt.
@Coles: you’re sick Coles. Very sick, taking serious delight in the made up “fact” that people celebrated the death of Traveller Children. You would love to believe that wouldn’t you, to feed your own sense of highmindedness and virtue. You must have no sense of self worth if that is what it takes for you to feel better about yourself. Signal away Coles, just makes you look,like a dick!
@Margie Murph: I saw those comments.
@Petr Tarasov: can you reference them because I seriously don’t believe that anyone let alone 90% of Irish Journal posters would have delighted in human beings being burned to death.
@Margie Murph: No point attacking me The comments are there to read. Keep your focus. Save your insults for the Travellers, or blacks, or muslims or gays or whatever.
He didn’t even say that, he said 90% of the comments were along the lines of ’10 less knackers’. Why wasn’t he challenged on this claim?
Margie , I agree with you nobody on here said that they were glad that they died .. i would also like to ask Johnny if the travellers have changed their ways in light of this tragedy .. lesson were to be learned here so did they make changes to prevent this from happening again ?
@Suzie Sunshine: of course not because according to Connors The County Council was 100% to blame citing it would appear, downright lies. Like,the fire hydrant was welded shut! Don’t believe that for a second.
Margie. Seemingly the fire hydrant was wielded shut but that was due to improper use which was causing leaks … from the travellers themselves ! But Johnny must have forgotten that bit …
@Suzie Sunshine: Is it acceptable to weld a hydrant shut? If someone was interferring with a hydrant outside an apartment block then would it be right to weld it shut?
@petr. Can you reference those comments that celebrated “10 less knackers”, you know Petr, the comments you said you saw. I didn’t think so, you’re just as fanciful as your dopey friend Coles.
Coles. . If it’s causing leaks out onto the road then what else could they do? ..they shouldn’t have been interfering with it ..
Their culture™
Not all travellers go by their culture some families like to put the culture behind them and live like settled families and are not given a chance One year on it was a tradgedy but they are still getting nowhere because a lot of people wont give them a chance.
Any of our houses burn down, we’d have to claim for it through overpriced insurance that we paid for from our wages. We wouldn’t be given anything, so why should they?
“Worried about property prices”. What a shallow self-serving set of individuals we are, while professing to be a nation. We have yet to truely learn to be citizens, because we are more interested about ” what in it for me”
Exactly – why cant the travellers think of others before engaging in their selfish ways Martin?
I think those people were more concerned about the nature of “temporary”. Along with issues like filth, rats, cars and trucks parked everywhere, horses running rampant, anti social behaviour, noise, theft. The little things that can make “the quiet enjoyment” of the home you bought and paid for, virtually impossible.
@Martin Gillick: Martin, if a halting site is established and problems occur (as so often they do) who will come to support the residents? Which bunch of concerned citizens will don placards and call the media?
The residents will be trapped there with no way out because nobody will buy their homes and nobody will support their cause in case they too are accused of hating travellers.
Well said Martin.
@Margie Murph: Ithink that one of those trolls you are feeding is one of the Banshee Ninga’s form Firhouse
Was John Connors asked his opinion as to why proximity to traveller camps reduces property value?
I’ll bet he thinks its entirely down to discrimination, and has nothing whatsoever to do with the culture of criminality in the traveller community.
Hardworking, contributing members of society do not face discrimination.
It’s lovely to see some young people’s post very naive comments must be lovely to live in there downton abbey type world travellers are judged on there collective actions which is 99.999999 percent thieving free loading and blaming the settled community for there problems must be nice to be above the law and to have no ruled apply to u there not a different race.
Irrespective of what anybody thinks of travellers, can we not simply honour and respect the memory of the people who died in this this unspeakable tragedy, without following it with a ‘but’ or a justification for not doing so? The five children who perished were unaware of the brutality of adult politics. Surely we can all have a heart and at least respect their memory with dignity?
@Anthony Power: I bet you’re sick of him. A Traveler man, full of confidence, articulate, intelligent, principled, assured. And being so uppity as to tell Irish society some uncomfortable truths. I have no doubt you and people like you are sick of him!
@Petr. I’d love if a traveller encampment moved in beside you with the horses, dogs, vans, noise, pollution, fights, intimidation, burglaries, filth, rats etc. It would,be an interesting social experiment to see just how long a prince of the far left, the most upright and stalwart defender of the rights and entitlements of Travellers, just how long it would take for you to feel vulnerable, victimised and marginalised. About a week I would guess. But I’m sure you would still find a way to blame the coping, middle class taxpayers of this country. Because to harbour negative thoughts towards Travellers would be raacist wouldn’t it. Couldn’t have that.
“@Petr. I’d love if a traveller encampment moved in beside you”
A comment from the Jim Crow era; but entirely socially acceptable in Ireland in 2016.
@Margie Murph: I’d be proud to have John Connors as a neighbour.
@Margie Murph: That’s not even in Ireland, let alone where John Connors lives.
It’d certainly be better than having you as a neighbour.
Briefly read through some of the comments here and was absolutely disgusted by the rhetoric. Do you honestly not see that this is exactly what Connors is talking about when he says there’s no empathy!?
‘They wouldn’t move to a suitable site because they said it was cursed and because they were feuding with another family’
Firstly you’re excusing away lost lives here. Secondly, why are there travellers living in superstitious fear to such a degree that it places them in imminent danger anyway? Why are there still travellers feuding to the point of them needing protection to keep ‘their own’ out? The answer, as Connors has pointed out on numerous occasions himself, is education. ‘THEY choose not to go to school’ I hear you answer. Would you honestly blame them, considering they’d be in school with some of your sons and daughters? School is a microsm of society and as in society, young travellers feel isolated, ashamed not mention afraid. This is deeply ingrained! The problem here is you’re all pointing out the effects of marginalisation not the cause of it and the cause of it is the states repeated failed attempts at trying to eradicate the travelling people!
If some of you were intelligent enough to look beyond the subjective you might realise most of your opinions aren’t actually your own but were instilled in you by somebody else, be it media or family upbringing, yet you wear it proudly on your sleeve as if it were your own!
They are just more excuses … a traveller kid is no different and is treated no differently in school to any other kid ..kids from all different backgrounds attend school and they fit in well . More excuses that’s all it is ..
@Suzie Sunshine: There is however, no excuse for your misinformed comments. Have you ever actually spoken to a Traveller? Into the 1990s Travellers were often educated through segregated provision. Over the last decade this segregated approach has mainly been abandoned but as I have already stated, it’s deeply ingrained and it’s not as simple as throwing them in there with the settled folk and expecting them to get along.
Paul, do you live in close proximity to one of these sites? If not, you should hop back onto your pc wagon and go check them out, and maybe ask some of the local residents who have paid for their homes what its like to share their property with a multitude of stray, malnourished animals, rubbish strewn roadside, abandoned vehicles, sulky racing etc
@mcos: Funny, having grown up in a working class area all of those things could be said (and have been!) about where i’m from. I have also been to plenty of sites and have befriended many a traveler aswell (I know, SHOCKING carry on!) Also, I can’t remember the last time a traveler taxed the arse off/evicted a house owner!
I never said that the family would not move. What I was saying was that the family down the road from them would not let them into their halting site because of a feud. Secondly, again I did not say that they family would not move to the site in Killiney. What I said was that the last family deemed the site as “cursed”. When a member of their family died on the site, they burned out the caravan (as per tradition) and moved out because they thought it was “cursed”. Before they left, they stripped the place of anything valuable, making the place uninhabitable. The Carrickmine family could have moved in immediately if it were not stripped and destroyed.
@Derek Goulding: Why should they? I know most of us are two generations away from the devout but I wouldn’t have expected my grandmother to feel comfortable living on a cemetery! Sacred or cursed. People are entitled to have beliefs! It is part of their culture. Does that make them monsters, in your opinion?
I love the qualified sympathy. “I weely weely feel sowwy, BUT….”
Please dispense with the nonsense and admit to your hatred.
“i’m not a racist because Travellers aren’t a race”.
Yeah, they’re not racists. They’re just bigots. ffs.
@Petr Tarasov: Please try living beside them before insulting people left right and centre.
@Petr Tarasov: You have obviously never been a victim of their “I was only trying to feed my family”. Your time will come, and believe me it will. It’s been four horrendous times for me in my life. The next time I’m in Mountjoy. If John Connors is intelligent, articulate and principled as you say then why isn’t he trying to help the community to solve the root cause of the problem? It’s simple, just respect other people, their lives and property and give something back to the amount that they take from society. Just taking with no giving gets anyone hated. That is not rocket science.
@Patrick J. O’Rourke: Just curious, but how do you know that in each incidence you were the victim of Travellers? I assume the Gardaí said, “It was probably Travellers”, right? Do you feel they investigated the crimes properly?
Racism is part of the Irish character. Looking down on those less fortunate bestows feeling of superiority and compensates for our national inferiority complex. The extent of the expressed hatred both on this site and elsewhere on the anniversary of this tragedy is appalling. Ignorance is the root cause. But then, Irish people share this characteristic with others the world over. However, almost celebrating the horrendous deaths of these unfortunate people is particularly disturbing because it indicates something even more deep rooted than mere ignorant racism, and the phrase pure evil comes to mind.
If only things were so simple good travellers versus evil racist settled people
That is only true in children’s fairy tails
@Peter Martin: You understand you’ve just been racist towards the Irish in your comment? The majority are NOT ignorant or misinformed or evil, they are very aware of their society and its issues.
You being one of us just makes it worse.
honestly john there is a lot of people that do have empathy
but i do understand where your coming from .
the media do not help in situations like this. and the government should offer housing & counselling / help to the family’s affected until a time they decide to move on.
i wish the familys affected my deepest sympathies and hope one day they will recover from there terrible loss.
keep up the good work john..
Anyone know what caused this fire, surely there was an investigation with some results of findings available?
Today is not the day for nasty comments, this day last year was simply appalling with the most horrendous vile remarks, very upsetting, as anyone who lost someone close to them through sudden tragedy could tell you. I have said it before and I will say it again a simple solution in my opinion would be everyone in this country of ours be treated equally, education is the core factor, it has to be mandatory for each of us. In the next ten to twenty years it would pay dividends.
May they all rest in peace
There are plenty of people in Ireland who want to live of benefits,who dump their rubbish, who rob. Plenty in my community do that and Travellers are not the ones doing it.
It’s like the old saying “I’m not racist but”
Ten people died and all people want o talk about is anti social behaviour.
Donald Trump would be proud.
“OVERCROWDING, the lack of fire alarms and the risk of electrocution are just three issues highlighted in the nationwide review of all Traveller accommodation.
The national audit was ordered by the government in the wake of the Carrickmines tragedy last October, in which 10 people, including five children died.
Just three days after the tragedy, the Department of the Environment told local authorities to review all Traveller sites.
According to the findings, unsafe electrical sockets, overcrowded bays and caravans being too close together is common on most sites.
There are 2,144 Traveller units across the country. 81% or 1,654 of units had no working smoke alarms. 77% or 1,274 have been supplied with a smoke alarms as of 1 July 2016. In some cases, occupants informed the fire service that they did not wish to be provided with smoke alarms or to have them fitted.
The layout of some halting sites was also identified as a fire safety risk to occupants.
Separation distances between Traveller units was identified as an issue of concern in 57% of the sites inspected.
Of these, only 35% have had remedial works carried out.
The condition of electrics and, in particular, the external use of multiple plug adaptors, was identified as an issue in 62% of the sites appraised.
Of these, only 51% have dealt with the issue and had remedial works done.”
Perhaps he should dedicate some time to campaigning among his community to try avoid a similar tragedy in the future.
“When you look at even articles TheJournal.ie did on that, if you look at the comments section under the story, you’re talking about hundreds of comments and about 90% of them saying ’10 less knackers’ … that was really, really tough.”
And now recognition that the comments section on this site is a shít heap of the right-wing dregs of Irish society.
@Phil Blanc: Or a raid by trolls
Please tell me the Journal just happens to have far-right intolerant readers and “these people” (words plucked from two of the tirades) are not typical of the Irish!
99.9999999999999999999999999999% of the time you see a traveller they are minding their own business and, thanks to a cognitive bias known as illusory correlation, you all dwell on the exception.
I am sorry for you if you have met Travellers who you didn’t like, get over it.
nimby
have your say