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SECONDS OUT, ROUND two as the second of three US presidential debates takes place in St Louis, Missouri.
Republican Trump, whose campaign has been lumbering from crisis to crisis for months, interspersed with the occasional week of steadiness, is currently enduring the most serious collapse in support for his White House bid so far, after his 2005 comments about groping women emerged on Friday.
But even before the latest fallout, Trump needed to put in the performance of a lifetime to reverse his decline in the polls. Clinton was widely regarded to have won the last debate – managing to get under her rival’s skin on a number of occasions, provoking him to lash out.
Tonight’s format will be different to last week’s – it’s a ‘town hall’, meaning half of the questions will be asked by voters. And while the first set-piece event had only one moderator, tonight’s has two: CNN’s Anderson Cooper and Martha Raddatz of ABC. The action gets under way at 2am Irish time, finishing up around 90 minutes later.
We’ll be here til the bitter end. Send your observations and constructive criticism to @PTHosford or paulhosford@thejournal.ie throughout the night.
Good evening and welcome!
Paul Hosford here to take you up to around 4.30am in the morning as Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton face off for the second time.
Let’s catch up on where we are, shall we?
Friday’s unearthing of a tape that shows Trump talking about ‘grabbing women by the pussies’ has dogged his preparation for a debate he really has to win.
Having been the consensus loser in the first debate two weeks ago, Trump needed to rebound and appeal to independent voters.
That tape, and other recordings of him talking about women – including allowing Howard Stern call his daughter “a piece of ass” – have changed the dynamic of this debate.
The big question now is – will Trump come out swinging and, if he does, what does he have up his sleeve?
The debate is scheduled to kick off at 2am Irish time and will run until around 3.30am.
If you’re in Ireland, Sky News begins their coverage at 1am, with an hour worth of build-up. BBC News will pick up its coverage as the main event gets underway.
There is much speculation today that Trump will attempt to use Bill Clinton to attack Hillary tonight.
His initial statement on Friday deflected blame to the former President by saying he had ‘said worse’ to Trump.
Now, cornered and behind, it is conceivable that Trump will swing for the fences and try to make Bill a major election issue.
However, Hillary will be difficult to rattle, one would imagine.
The stage is set…
This has been a weird election already.
But nothing is weirder than the sight of 73-year-old Oscar winner Robert De Niro saying he would like to punch a candidate in the face.
It would be smart and strategic of Trump in tonight’s debate then, to focus on a few niche policy areas, do his homework, push Clinton on specifics and give the floating voters a lasting image of Trump besting her in her area of expertise.
So says Lorcan Nyhan writing for TheJournal.ie earlier today.
Anyone who has ever competitively debated can tell you that mistakes rarely just happen, they are forced by good opponents.
Can Trump really press home the weaknesses in the Clinton campaign? Because, make no mistake, there are openings to exploit – if he’s disciplined enough.
Trump enters this debate trailing in every key state – Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Colorado and Nevada – which makes him dangerous.
Operatives in the Republican primaries described planning to debate him as planning for a car race where you know one driver will be drunk.
Martin O’Malley, who had a short-lived Presidential campaign, told The Atlantic that Trump was ‘a monkey with a machine gun’ – you know something’s going to go off, but you don’t know in which direction.
And what of the former Secretary of State?
Like her or not, she is a seasoned political operative, endured a marathon debate circuit in 2008′s Democratic primary race and knows policy inside and out.
However, her lack of warmth and personability means the town hall format is possibly her weakest style.
To use boxing parlance, Clinton needs to work the jab tonight, stay protected let Trump’s own bluster hurt him.
Donald Trump is holding a press conference with a woman who claimed Bill Clinton raped her and Hillary Clinton knew about it.
So…that was surreal.
An hour before a US Presidential debate, a candidate sits beside a woman who claims a former President raped her and the opposing candidate knew about it.
Yeah, this is going to be wild.
So, who’s up with me? Not many of you by the looks of it. Regardless, I’m on Twitter @PTHosford or you can email me: paulhosford@thejournal.ie all night.
If you have literally any interest in this election, this debate is going to be a must-see.
Record it, watch it live, whatever. But this is going to be fascinating.
Remember 2012? When Mitt Romney was sunk by a secretly videoed remark about “the 47%”?
That all seems really quaint and innocent now, doesn’t it? Hell, even the “swiftboating” of John Kerry seems really tame.
A statement from the Clinton campaign calls Trump’s press conference part of his “race to the bottom”.
This is an interesting point. Hillary Clinton is a candidate who has weaknesses, who should be held to account on many things.
But there is absolutely no way she wasn’t ready for these questions, regardless of the manner of their presentation. It would be shocking if she doesn’t have well-drilled, concise answers to the press conference.
The audience is filing in to the arena in St Louis and they will play a key role in the debate.
Members of the audience will ask questions of both candidates, but they will be able to turn their answers on each other.
A quick reminder of the polls:
Adam Boulton of Sky News points out that the town hall format was first used in 1992.
The winner of that election…Bill Clinton.
Before we get started, take a couple of minutes to check out Hamilton writer and star Lin-Manuel Miranda’s Saturday Night Live monologue from this weekend.
Miranda points out that his record-breaking Broadway show is extremely “culturally relevant” today – two New York politicians engage is a scrappy, ill-tempered political battle.
Hillary Clinton has arrived. Her pantsuit is black with white trim, for those of you interested.
Trump’s tie will be red, apparently.
Sam Nunberg, a former Trump adviser, condemns Trump’s comments as revealed on Friday, but says he will still vote for him.
He does say, however, that Trump has a tough road to win the presidency and that “on days like today, I’m glad I’m not working there”.
Our moderators have arrived: CNN’s Anderson Cooper and ABC’s Martha Raddatz.
Both will be under the microscope after the passive performance of Lester Holt in the first debate.
Alright, it’s almost go time.
Who do you think will win the debate?
The families are here. Can’t imagine Bill is overly keen to shake hands, but he does so anyway.
Here come the candidates, RING THE BELL.
Patrice Brock asks if the tone of the debate has been good enough for children.
Clinton wants to “overcome divisiveness and work towards big goals” as a nation.
Here it is in excruciating awkwardness.
Trump says that he joined the campaign because he was sick of seeing “foolish things” happening to America.
He takes shots at Obamacare and the Iran deal – the GOP low-hanging fruit.
Trump is reserved in his opening salvo, but didn’t answer the question. Cooper pushes him to address Friday’s video.
Trump tells Cooper he doesn’t understand the video, but it’s just “locker room talk” and nothing compared to “ISIS chopping off heads”.
Trump has somehow pivoted to a question on whether he has sexually assaulted women to how he would make America safe from ISIS.
Clinton says that she has never doubted an opponent’s fitness for office:
“Donald Trump is different.”
Shots. Fired.
Can you feel the awkwardness.
Trump says that Clinton’s attack on his ability to hold office is “just words”.
Trump starts to ramble, but Martha Raddatz moves him on to a question from a Facebook poster who asks if he was a different man at age 59.
Trump goes after Bill Clinton and the gloves are off.
“There’s never been anyone in the history of politics that’s been so abusive to women. Hillary Clinton attacked those same women, four of them here tonight…she should be ashamed of herself.”
Clinton goes back on the offensive saying that Trump “never apologises for anything”.
Trump fires back that “you owe Obama an apology”.
Trump moves on to Clinton’s email server and says that if he wins he will get a special prosecutor to “look into her situation”.
Yes, a man running for US President just said that if elected, he will instruct the Attorney General to investigate a political opponent.
OH SNAP!
Clinton says it’s a good thing that someone with Trump’s temperament isn’t running the US justice system.
He fires back “because you’d be in jail”.
This is a town hall meeting, but the crowd has asked on question in 26 minutes as the moderators have let it degenerate into a slanging match.
It’s unfortunate, but it’s a good watch.
Bill and Chelsea are here.
Trump has just had a fight with Anderson Cooper and claimed it’s “one on three”.
Finally, we move onto another question. It’s about Obamacare.
Clinton says she wants to fix it because premiums and co-pays are too high. But it needs to stay in place. Trump, of course, wants a day-one repeal if elected.
Trump says that Obamacare is a disaster, but in doing so has a pop at the Canadian healthcare system.
I can hear Canadian Twitter getting revved up already.
See?
Gorba Hamin asks candidates how they will deal with a rise in Islamophobia.
Trump calls it “a shame”, but says there “is a problem” and says Muslims have to report “the problems when they see them”.
The woman who asked the question doesn’t seem assuaged by Trump’s deflection to Clinton.
Clinton says Trump’s “demagogic rhetoric” is dangerous for American Muslims.
She says she wants to beat ISIS by entering into a coalition with Muslim countries.
Trump is hit with his call to ban Muslims from America “until we figure out what’s going on”.
He says that the Muslim ban is now “extreme vetting”. He says that people coming from Syria would vetted.
“People are coming into our country and we have no idea who they are. This will be the greatest Trojan horse of all time.”
Trump is sniffling a lot. It is very off-putting at this time of the morning.
Trump has now browbeaten the moderators into giving him an extra response twice.
They really have to be stronger. This is a debate of ideals that’s been allowed become a mud-slinging match.
Just to be clear, Trump’s call for a complete shutdown of Muslims entering America is still on his website. It doesn’t mention “extreme vetting”.
Clinton is asked Wikileaks excerpts from speeches she gave to Wall Street.
She says the issue is political hacking, but Trump says she “got caught in a lie”.
Trump promises tax cuts for middle-class workers and promises to end carried interest provisions, a tax incentive that has benefited him.
Trump adds that he wants to cut taxes and says that Clinton is “raising taxes, really high”.
Says he will “cut taxes, big league”.
This is now an actual debate between two people with different ideas on how to run a country as they differ on tax codes.
Now the question of Trump’s taxes.
Did he use a billion dollar loss to avoid paying personal taxes?
“Of course I do, as do her donors.
“I understand the tax code better than anyone who’s ever run for President.”
Did Donald Trump just admit to avoid paying taxes?
Trump lands with charges that Clinton has been a career politician and hasn’t addressed healthcare, taxes or the Middle East.
He even manages to blame her for ISIS.
On-message, he’s scoring, but then he drifts into interrupting and petulance as Clinton tries to respond.
I think he’s right.
Here comes Clinton, roaring back by underscoring her achievements as a Senator and as Secretary of State.
This is where she is comfortable: making this a question of qualified against not qualified.
Trump implied that American taxes were among the highest in the world. They’re not as high as they are here.
Both candidates are asked about how they would deal with Syria.
Clinton talks strong on Syria and Russia.
Trump asks why Clinton hasn’t sorted the Syrian Civil War and goes on to say he disagrees with his Vice-Presidential candidate Mike Pence on how Syria should be handled.
Trump is asked what happens if Aleppo falls.
His answer is “Aleppo is a disaster”.
Pushed by Raddatz, he says “Aleppo has basically fallen” and moves on to Mosul.
Trump is asked his strategy for Syria.
He ignores the question and talks about the “200 admirals and generals and 21 medal of honour recipients” that support him.
Clinton says she would target Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi specifically and arm Kurdish fighters.
A question from the floor asks how both candidates would be devoted to all of the American people.
Trump uses Clinton’s “deplorables” quote as proof she can’t represent the people of America.
Clinton goes back to her public service. She says that some are worried about not having a place in Donald Trump’s America.
Cooper brings back in the “deplorables” quote, asking how she can unite a country in which she has written off millions of people as sexist or racist.
Clinton backtracks from it, saying she regrets saying it and tries to deflect the spotlight to Trump’s comments about women, POWs and Muslims.
Trump comes back saying that Charlotte, Chicago and Baltimore show that America is a “divided nation” and Clinton has “tremendous hatred in her heart”.
Cooper asks Trump if tweeting at 3am in the morning about a sex tape is showing the necessary discipline for a leader.
Trump says he wasn’t talking about a sex tape (even though he tweeted exactly what Cooper said) then points out that Clinton has sent a tweet at the same time, talks about Benghazi and says he’s proud of his social media following.
Clinton trumpets her husband’s achievements as President and says she’s proud of Barack Obama’s record.
Beth Miller asks about the vacant Supreme Court seat.
Clinton says that she wants to appoint Supreme Court justices who “understand how the world really works”. She says that the Supreme Court should repeal Citizens’ United and “get dark, unaccountable money out of our politics”.
She wants a Supreme Court that would protect both abortion and marriage equality.
Trump says he wants gun rights protected and hits Clinton, saying that he’s putting $100 million into his campaign while she’s taking money from special interests.
Kenneth Bone asks about energy policy.
Trump says he’ll “bring our energy companies back” because they’re “under siege” by the Obama administration.
Clinton says that Trump is angry about Chinese steel being used around America, but is buying it to build his buildings.
She says that America needs to fight climate change and move to clean energy.
Karl Becker asks the candidates to name one thing they respect about the other.
An amazing last question, to be honest.
Clinton says that Trump’s children are incredibly able, which “says a lot about Donald”.
It feels like the question was designed to make the two realise they were friends all along.
Trump says that he too, is proud of his children.
He says that “Hillary doesn’t give up, doesn’t quit”.
“I disagree with her, but she is a fighter and I consider that a very good trait.”
And that’s it.
The candidates shake hands at the end of an aggressive showdown.
That was tense, uncomfortable and fascinating.
They do it all again on 19 October in Nevada. We’ll be there as they do.
So, a score draw?
Both sides able to land punches, with Trump hitting Clinton on e-mails and her links to Wall Street.
There definitely didn’t appear to be a clear winner. Which will probably suit Clinton with just a month to go to polling day.
So, with that, I’m off to bed. Or going to get up and have breakfast. I’m not sure.
Thanks for being with me!
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The article should also mention that Enda just spent €50,024 of taxpayers money on an annual salary for a new Special Advisor for Mayo after internal Fine Gael opinions polls done locally showed that he is in real danger of losing his seat. The Special Advisor has been hired at taxpayers expense to liase with the local Mayo media on behalf of Enda in the run up to the general election
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/endas-50k-hometown-aide-to-boost-local-profile-30993257.html
The €50,024 that Enda sanctioned for this new position is on top of the €550,000 per annum cost that is already shelled out on his Dublin based advisors.
Democratic revolution me arse, same old, same old…
More than half a million for special advisors in Dublin for our €3,500 a week Taoiseach , sure €55,000 is insignificant for the Mayo advisor
My reading of this is that there will be a real democratic process in actually choosing a candidate, rather than a political party choosing a candidate. The difference here is that people can get involved at the earliest stage, instead of getting your ballot paper, and marking the “least worst” options. I think this is one of the biggest reasons for bad voter turnout..the attitude that ” they are all the same”. Looks like proper democratic engagement and is a very innovative initiative. i wouldn’t be surprised if other counties follow their lead. Many, many people are just sick of what the traditional parties have to offer, especially political dynasties..the Enda Kenny and Charlie Flanagan’s of this world, straight into Daddy’s seat…disastrous..
When Mayo moves against hegemony the world should take not – It is the birthplace of Michael Davitt after all – and he inspired Ghandhi !
And Enda and his crew attacking history – silly Enda , silly crew !
Just to remind people, enda kenny is spending 50 grand of your tax money to hire a former prominent member of young fine gael as a PR man in his own constituency, lest he suffer the humiliation of not being re-elected despite being taoiseach.
Let that sink in, and you’ll realise how good a job he’s ACTUALLY Ddoing.
Enda’s seat not safe. Joan’s seat not safe. And they think their doing fantastic.
Seen that ad in the paper this morning. Surely the coalition must be secretly bricking it. Public anger v high and they’re doing little to turn the tide. Well little for the middle and working class. And a spew of bs lies from the labour party at the party conference trying to buy back votes
. they’ll be screwed at the next general election. As long as people remember all this carry on. I for one will not forget.
A helium balloon with a clowns face scrawled on it with biro would be a better candidate than Kenny.
An odd sock with buttons for eyes would be a better candidate than Kenny.
As satisfying as that would be , he’s still going to walk away with a pension pot of millions , but for now I will bask in the warm hope of him losing his seat .
Its beginning to feel a bit like Christmas!!! Great news. Saw the advert seeking independant candidates to self-select/get organised in the run-up to the (next) GE. Now…would’nt it be lovely. Can’t wait. Whooo Whooo
The only chair I’d like to see Enda kenny in
is good auld Sparky. …..
Put more fluoride in the water Enda.. your subjects are trying to start a rebellion…
Would the absurd amount of money not be better spent on Special needs assistants, not on “Special advisers”?
Excellent headline. Tell us something we dont know tho.. ;-)
We can but genuinely and profoundly hope..
Its beginning to feel a bit like Christmas!!! Great news. Saw the advert seeking independant candidates to self-select/get organ
When the other-plank-Kenny loses his seat I will laugh my backside off.
LITERALLY!! :D
Article is up over 40 mins, surprised the comments section hasn’t been flooded by the usual crowd praising Enda.
They must of been told to stay away.
The only seat that’s safe for Enda is the one by the fire at home.
Unless someone push’s him into it….lol….
Thats the plan we are all going vote indepentents, the people will have their day and their say.
Hey, someone should tell Endaconversation that theres temp jobs coming up in IW…time to get his cv/application ready, just in case. Sure why not let Phonyjoany kno as well?
or a job bridge, sure it is good enough to ofter people desperate to work
Democracy, you gotta love it .
Best news I have heard,thank god we will soon be rid of him and all his cronies.
Well that election could be sooner than he thinks , the eu demands that Irish water must have over 60% paying customers if not they will tell Enda & Joan your both fired & election must be called & that I think may just happen before the summer is out .
“Oh! Wouldn’t it be lovely”!!!!!!!!!
KENNY KENNY KENNY -
OUT OUT OUT!
KENNY KENNY KENNY -
OUT OUT OUT!
KENNY KENNY KENNY -
OUT OUT OUT!
KENNY KENNY KENNY -
OUT OUT OUT!
KENNY KENNY KENNY -
OUT OUT OUT!
KENNY KENNY KENNY -
OUT OUT OUT!
KENNY KENNY KENNY -
OUT OUT OUT!
KENNY KENNY KENNY -
OUT OUT OUT!
Well Said. FG, LAB, SF, and some of FF are Pro-Abortion, And same sex Marriage. Shame on them..
REPENT.
If Enda does win a seat, can we make it and electric one ?
when all the apples in the barrel are rotten, you have to pick new ones. I really feel the general population and majority have been well and truly let down once too often by the FG/FF/Lab and have become completely sick and tired of them. Right now most of us are wondering what we ever saw in them, and most importantly now that the spell has been broken we will never fall for their bullshit again.
Was sure that was Steve Davis in that pic! He also has that ‘this is me trying to look like I fit in’ vibe going on!
Solid as a rock is our Enda.
As thick as a rock Tom and just as useful.
A joke about viagra comes to mind lol.
Certain Shinners will comment here but will ignore the article about those murdered by the IRA.
Here we are talking about the Mayo Constituency and Mr. Lyons of Tap Solny and various other fake Twitter sites is talking about a different subject altogether ?????
It’s amazing how this Gerryphobia virus has spread throughout FG Members and what’s left of the 475 or so, Labour Party Members – Tap – you must take your Meds every three hours !!!!!
Tap whats that got to do with your Muppet Kenny keeping his seat?
Tap is from Northern Ireland. He was originally Patrick Lyons. He is fascinated with Irish politics for some reason.
Still trying to save F.G. votes… are you again?
Is there anything stopping this new independent party providing an accomodation address so we can switch our registered voting address to say…..castlebar ?
or at least 100000+ of us, that would finally get rid of mr smug enda. No point in leaving it to chance.
Solid as a rock is our Enda
Yeah, we heard you the first time. Twit.
Greg it’s not Tom’s fault he was let out of his home for weirdos….
You carry on Tom….God bless you….you poor wee fool…
Thick as two short planks is our Enda, makes Brian Clown look intelligent!
Your village called..they miss you..and want you back..
His village called asking if someone else would take him
Now, come ON…..that’s impossibe….lol….
And as useful as one lol.
Hurry up as there isn’t much time left…
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/ireland-may-face-crisis-election-over-eu-ruling-on-irish-water-viability-308758.html
There are 350 temporary jobs advertised in IW he could apply, or go back teaching how to make a mess of a country, accept brown envelopes, how to be a bankers best friend for ever. Anyone else any other positions he could apply for. But I do think the IW position is just up his ally
Ah the west is awake as many young men of 20 say goodbye
‘Enda Kenny’s seat isn’t safe, an independent could take it’
Neither is the bog roll lol.
Independent will take it,he does not deserve it
I can’t see Enda having a problem retaining his seat. Mayo is going to a 4 seater, so it will be difficult for any independent to make an impact. Michael Ring will keep his seat, as will Dara Calleary, Enda might rely on transfer from Ring and Michelle Mulherin who Wil struggle. Michael Kilcoyne best placed of the independent candidates to win a seat. I expect Rose Conway-Walsh(SF) to show strongly as well with Lisa Chambers having a squeak. Kilcoyne will probably take the 4th seat though.
That photo makes me think…
The Gob Father… lol.
An Independent with the ’1st Independent Mayo’ ethos. That’s not actually 100% Independent then?
Thanks for the very positive comments. You might find these radio interviews informative.
One is in our Dear Leader’s own town, with Castlebar radio, i.e CRCFM, the other is with Galway bay.
Let me emphasise too that neither Eddie Farrell or I are candidates. Rather we hope, with all the other members of our coalition to drive the process forward and have a truly, county wide, mandated, capable and talented individual who won’t be part of the bland leading the bland. This is about ending the musical chairs of political patronage and political anaemia where the more things change the more they stay the same.
http://galwaybayfm.ie/keith-finnegan-show-monday-march-2nd/
All the best to the Journal.ie and thanks for getting us know that bit more on the social media.
HARRY PRICE
Ah bless, your parents must be really proud that they raised a pure cowardly bully.
I actually hope the poor people aren’t around to see what a total moron you turned into .
Please tell us you haven’t even tried to breed with anything other than your hand.
KENNYS DAYS ARE NUMBERED
Seems a bit odd though.. It is reasonable to assume that the organisers have a more pointed agenda than simply seeing an independent take a seat.
So, are they left or right? Somewhere in between? It seems unlikely that any aspiring TD would get involved. Surely they would just run if they felt they had something to offer rather than let populism potentially cost them their ability to run should they not be “selected”?
The only agenda Colum is to get the best possible T.D. for Mayo, who can serve county and country well, and won’t become part of a failed, cosy, consensus. Who knows this might spread and we’ll shake up the system countrywide too. I wonder will an application come in from the Claremorris area, wouldn’t johno love that!
No doubt there are good young men or women there, from the heart of the West who can do the Green and Red and the Green, White and Orange proud.
I hope they will be Pro-Life. And anti same sex Marriage.
The application process is open to all and let them be asked the appropriate questions on all issues. It will be up to the people to decide, not the organisers. The format will involve experienced journalists and local media personalities interviewing the candidates with their own scrutinizing questions as well as putting audience questions to them.
There will also be a series of surveys of opinions on both the candidates and the issues, from the audiences, each member of whom must sign a declaration that they are not a member of any presently registered political party. Other precautions will also be put in place, but we generally are going to take people at their word.
I am pro life myself and I have yet to be convinced of what additional rights, pertinent to human dignity, that every human being deserves, be they gay or straight, can be given by redefining marriage that are not already there in civil partnership. Personally I’ll be voting no and if arguments are going to be based on emotion rather than reason, by either side, I might even abstain. Either way a debate that denigrates the person, will not be a debate at all.
I though am not a candidate, this is not about me, or my political, social, and economic views, indeed many of us within First Independent Mayo vary among ourselves, some are theists, some are not, some are conservative on social issues, some are liberal. Some are very pro E.U., some slightly Eurosceptic, some pro Euro, some not, and so on. But none of these differences matter. We are not a political party. We are facilitators of something truly new, radical, different, a genuinely independent grass roots movement, who know that character is as important as policy, the latter should come from the former, and such a character through reason, should be able to sell both him or self and their policies.
What truly unites us is a convergence that this Govt and the last one failed us, big time and were not up to the task of putting the country’s needs before their own. That may sound harsh, but when you see headlines like Gilmore and Quinn’s pension costing 2 million each, well you get the point.
The present political club is about closing ranks to keep themselves in control of the system, a system that perpetuates the protection of vested interests, political patronage, and the status quo.
First Independent Mayo is something that should unite left and right, the issues you raise, come and see, participate, raise them yourself, let the candidates speak of those.
have your say