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Updated: 21:25
TWIN EARTHQUAKES ROCKED central Italy on Wednesday, the second registering at a magnitude of 6.1, in the same region struck in August by a devastating tremor that killed nearly 300 people.
At least two people have been reported injured in the latest quakes, with the mayor of one mountain town saying that many buildings had collapsed as authorities rushed to assess the full extent of the damage.
The quakes were felt in the capital Rome, sending residents running out of their houses and into the streets. The second was felt as far away as Venice in the far north, and Naples south of the capital.
The US Geological Survey (USGS) registered a first 5.5-magnitude quake at 1710 GMT, with the second following two hours later.
In both cases the epicentre was near the village of Visso in the central Marche region.
“Many houses have collapsed. Our town is finished,” Marco Rinaldi, mayor of Ussita, told Sky Italy television by telephone.
“The second quake was a long, terrible one,” he said.
“I’ve felt a lot of earthquakes but that was the strongest I’ve ever felt. Fortunately everyone had already left their homes after the first quake so I don’t think anyone was hurt.”
With reporting by AFP
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This is going g to be a massive problem. More than brexit even. Weather creches remain open or not it’s about if families can afford them. Our creche is charging 1700 PM for our 2 kids and now we are looking at one of us giving up work.
Imagine if thousands are thinking the same, the country.will come to a standstill. The Gov needs to step up here now. Maybe kicking insurance companies out of the country is an option and creating a gov based insurance scheme. Something has to be done, and done now
@Joe Mc: What price would be acceptable?
What you are paying sounds crazy
@Joe Mc: Lets take a look at the numbers.
You are paying €1700 – €280 (child allowance) a month. This is €710 per child per month or €32 per day per child.
That seems good value to be honest!! Difficult to see how any business could charge less.
@Lar Meyler: we have a very low level (.2 of oecd average) of government investment in early years education- that means low wages for staff with resulting high turnover – and parents unable to afford to attend work – raise the level to the oecd average and provide a National insurance scheme – problem solved
@Lar Meyler: you’re assuming that CA is just covering childcare.. what about the other expenses? And it’s not just insurance hikes for child care facilities it’s happening across the board.
@Lar Meyler: do you work for an insurance company or something. You seem to be fighting their corner. Look at it this way. My misses gets paid 2200 after tax. Childcare is 1700. That’s 500 balance on. Or 125 pw to live on. Car insurance and diesel soon takes the rest. It’s not worth her while to work. Simple isn’t it
@Martin O’Rourke: Focus 18 years of children’s allowance on early education and that would be sorted. All about choices.
A national Insurance scheme is out of the question. If private industry won’t provide insurance, whybshould the tax payer do so and take all the risk…
Disallow all claims at.creches other than for gross negligence. That would be a better approach.
It is not meant to cover everything. Your children, your expense. You get to choose where you spend it.
@Lar Meyler: insure the person to cover everything.
Not the commodity. Their, sorted. They would be claiming against themselves then
@Lar Meyler: sorry but functioning society and community dosnt work like that.
@Lar Meyler: I’m assuming at some point you may want to claim a state pension, or avail of some other social supports in your later years? These aren’t funded out of some big state investment pot, they are funded out of current expenditure, or in other words, the taxes a societies children will pay in later years.
It’s called the social contract, and the reason why child care supports are important now, alongside education, etc, its securing future state expenditure to look at it purely financially
@Joe Mc: Kicking insurance companies out of the country is nonsense. A government that underwrites these crèches means that tax payer money that could be used for something else like health or housing will instead be diverted into paying for government run insurance. Absolutely luscious idea
@Joe Mc: all abroad the government insurance profiteer gouging families train hit us where it hurts most our kids thanks fine geal finna fail, feeling broke with fine geal
@Joe Mc: The solution is for her to give up work. In reality it probably cost her more to work than just the car. Plus if she gave up work you can claim Home Carer Tax Credit, which is worth an extra €1600.
@Towger: ha fat chance to one wants to mind their own kids nowadays that’s why people pay most of their salary on childcare .. oh and ‘make sure they have had their dinner and homework done before I collect them so I can put them straight to bed ‘
@Lar Meyler: that’s after they’ve paid income tax on that amount, so work out the true cost to the parents. You’ll find it’s a loot more
@Lar Meyler: that’s six hours work for an awful lot of people.
@Peter Lewis Jnr: …per day.
@Joe Mc: the govt cannot ‘kick’ any company out of the country, it is illegal and contrary to international trade rules.
What the Childcare providers need to do is to carry out an audit of all claims, and their outcomes, taken by parents on behalf of their children, against the ‘providers. Too many parents have become too litigious. Settlements are too high. Court awards are way too much.
Add up the total cost of these insurance claims paid out by insurance companies. In addition, the RTE Primetine Investigates programme highlighted huge issues and discrepancies within the childcare industry.
Many childcare providers saw their service as a ‘gravy train’ model.
It would be interesting to hear why the insurance provider is pulling out of Ireland.
Between the insurance industry gouging us for every penny they can and the compo culture we will have hardly any services left before long as people can’t afford insurance policies!
@Cork Truck Driver: recently released figures clearly show that ‘ compo culture’ is a myth manufactured by the insurance companies to ‘ justify their gouging. Stop helping them peddle that false story.
@Cork Truck Driver: If you watch SFs Pearse Doherty quizzing the insurance companies, they acknowledge there is very little scamming being reported to the Gardai. Less than 50 cases across the entire insured population over the last 12 months. The insurance companies enjoy the scammers (We all know a few politicians between the 2 big parties that had spurious claims submitted)
@M Bowe: Ah would you stop, it’s not a myth. Just because insurance companies are gouging us does not mean we don’t have a ‘compo culture’, we can have both! Look at all the crazy claims that have been before the courts lately. Insurance and claims industry needs a complete overhaul and quickly.
@DK: you mean just because a report that clearly
Indicates there is little to no compo culture has been published doesn’t mean there is no compo culture, you understand how statistics differ from your anecdotes right?
Because one is the facts and the other is pure speculation
@M Bowe: Yet, it is inescapable that few busiesses will avoid a market where they can make a profit similar to.other markets. That is how capitalism works.
@Cian Rynne: Our claim awards are 4 times what they are in other countries. And then there are the huge legal costs.
@Cian Rynne: Cian you need to scratch below the surface of what SF are peddling. We have always had a compo culture just because numbers have stayed same doesn’t mean no culture. Awards are too high way above European norms which is why insurance companies don’t want to insure creches, if it was profitable they would.
@DK: have a look at Pearse Doherty videos at PAC. Finally busted that myth. 4% and less are actually fraudulent claims. Equate that to the massive increase in premiums and profit margins in that industry!!!!
@DK: Have a read of this, a logical look at the compo culture: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/insurance-industry-s-compo-culture-spin-is-the-dodgiest-claim-of-all-1.4104537?fbclid=IwAR2zd6RdhUJLL0kc6kRV7G9JqAqjtjEbWAGH7_QKJqokjZRR_i5_2EdVvZ0
@Cian Rynne: We regularly read stories in the papers of people bringing spurious insurance claims which are thrown out by the judge for obvious fraud. It may not be endemic or part of a ‘compo culture’ but it does happen quite regularly.
The problem with these cases is that they fraudsters are never charged or even reported for fraud.
The insurance companies need reigning in as they are profiteering on a grand scale but I’d still like to see obvious fraud prosecuted in the courts.
@Will: just ask some of our Tds
@M Bowe: then why are there not insurance companies queuing up to come to Ireland to gouge us? The insurance companies we have are gouging but other things like the compo culture need to be fixed to encourage more insurance companies in and drive down prices
@M Bowe: Rubbish. False claims are a massive problem in Ireland.
@M Bowe: dogs on the street accept there is a compo culture.
The state should insure creches, they are vital to the economy, two parents who work get very little from the government and have no option but to use creches (which are 99% excellent in this country) so give us this one government, cover the insurance and subsidise the underpaid workers in creches wages to an acceptable level…if they don’t work I can’t work
@Wheresmyjumper: Yes. Take the business out of the hands of the dishonest and greedy and you resolve the main problems. A bit like legalising drugs when you think about it.
@Wheresmyjumper: three areas where insurance companies are increasing the cost of living through anti-competitive practices: childcare, motor and health. The state should provide basic cover in all of these and have a single body responsible for managing claims, which will all be assessed by international benchmarks outside the court service. Companies who wish to provide additional insurance beyond this will be allowed, but will not have access to the courts system.
@Wheresmyjumper: well it’s vital that I get to work also so while they are at it they can Insure my car too. oh and I dont earn that much so they can subsidise my salary too. Parents these days want it all. New cars foreign holidays even expect the government to pay for their childcare! Ever hear of the saying you can’t have it all.
@Wheresmyjumper: certainly would be a sensible spend as opposed to voting machines
Could we not have uninsured Creche’s where the kids have cheaper highly inspected childcare facilities but the parents can’t sue when little Johnny falls over. Sign a disclaimer.
Kids pick up cuts and bruises all day every day. No need to sue a playground or a crèche….
Like everything, wait until it’s at breaking point before it’s even looked into. They have known for years they were one bump away from this disaster. Where is the minister for children this week? Why can’t the govt intervene in critical services in their own country? Have things ever been as nonsensical in this country as they are right now?!
@Mark Dooley: Years of voting FFG and people still vote for them…..I say suck it up we vote for corruption we have it all coming to us……booooom keep it going lol
For many families in Ireland there is a requirement for both parent to work to pay for the cost of living. The closure of child care facilities will require one parent to withdraw from the workforce, a loss that won’t be even remotely offset by not having not to pay for childcare.
This will drive families to poverty, and it starts in 2 weeks as the 1st Jan hits, we are out of time for an insurance taskforce, action is needed now
@David Memery: it’s absolutely shocking, soon nothing will be able to operate in this country if the insurance companies continue such horrendous prices.
@Ann Morris Doolan: it’s not just the insurance companies charging too much. Something is stopping other insurance companies from coming to Ireland. Only one quoting for many things. It’s a joke. This needs to be tackled ASAP. This is a bigger crisis than Brexit, society is being ripped apart, the Govt have to prioritise this!
Why do people keep voting for Fine Gael and Fianna Fail who created this problem on purpose to make money for insurance companies? They refuse to intervene in ‘the market’. They have no intention of fixing the problem. If you find yourself in this situation and cannot afford child care and you voted for those two parties then you only have yourself to blame. Until those two parties are voted out the problems with housing, healthcare, and insurance will only get worse.
@Wade Wilson: well I’m no fan of fg/ ff but as far as I can see they are all the same. This country is down the tubes they can talk it up all they like but it’s all bull
Heard the minister on radio this morning and he didn’t seem to think that there was any problem with the price alliance is quoting. There’s the real problem ministers living in a dream world
@Aidan Clarke: he said he got his figures off the Pat Kenny show. Farcical. actually promoted the monopoly Allianz have now.
All one has to do us read the court reports. The amount of claims going through is staggering along with the awards given
@jerry slattery: insurance claims have gone down Jerry. Hard to justify massive hikes in price
@Joe Mc: not enough off them gone down, payout still too high, kids have accidents in crèches and parents are suing for an easy few thousand euros. Kids fall and get cuts, it’s all part of growing up
@Patrick O Connell: still doesn’t justify 300% increase in premiums. Insurance companies should be kicked out of the country and replaced by a gov I insurance scheme with capped payouts for injuries
@Joe Mc: or what about insuring the person. Not the commodity. It would cover everything like car, health etc.
We need a change in the law that puts responsibility onto people. It would seem that there is also someone to sue if something happens. Swing gate is a perfect example, a fully grown adult decides to get a swing with drinks in each hand – falls off and who’s to blame – the hotel. Zero responsibliity to the person and their actions. Set it so that people are responsible for their own actions, that will drive down claims.
Open up our markets to other insurance companies in the EU, right now its hard to set up in Ireland as many previous insurance companies will content to.
@Jim Buckley Barrett: bad example as this was fought, but still probably resulted in the hotel’s premiums going up to cover the solicitor, barrister and court fees.
It would be a nice circle if the judges awarding OUTRAGEOUS amounts are directly affected by this through their children or grandchildren. Maybe then they might think someone who is splattered with water through their own stupidity doesn’t need €50k
@Sos: But if they award lower amounts how can their solicitor friends make huge payouts?
So blindingly obvious this and so many other claims prone industries. Let everyone or their carer have their own accident insurance and when you want to use a facility like a creche, you simply sign an indemnity. This is how it is done with for instance “shoots”, duck, pheasants etc.. Everyone participating must have insurance cover and sign the indemnity.
If a creche or any other organization, be it a shop or a town council, contravenes health and safety regulations, then they are brought to court. Not closed down or robbed, or rather all of us robbed by premium hikes, a product of legally promoted crazy claims, like pouring boiling water in a water jug. 55K.
@Nicholas Grubb: great to hear a constructive suggestion for a change instead of whinging and blaming the govt.
How in 2019 are families not able to set up childcare with registered companies/child minders and get it taken from pre tax salary like the tax saver for transport?
The first ones to complain will be the ones who sued a creche because their kid did what kids do and fell over claim culture over here needs to emd kids gettin 20 39 and 40 thousand for a scratch in the 90s kids would be told to cop on and watch what were doing but now its straight to making a claim
So when your child is signed up the owner advises you we are not insured but we will do our utmost to mind your child. So for sure the solicitor will not be called over a trip or fall. Simple
@Mick Scanlan: Can they not self insure? I know it’s a simplistic view but if the saving was passed to parents a charter was in place for good practice and a written agreement in placed between all parents and owners. Obviously with some exceptions for blatant neglect.
@Fred the Muss: nope, the amount you’d need upfront would be staggering ,and all creches already go through the hoops with “good practice”,(even if a minority arent as good at implementing it “,if you introduce another scheme,it’ll be more box ticking for staff (and less minding)
Sorry can we talk about the irony of Alan Farrell chairing a committee which is lamenting the cost of insurance in Ireland?
@I Crow: I just can’t believe it. Scratching my head. I’d say the government done that on purpose just to wind the public up.
Insurance companies do not refuse businesses unless they see it as loss making or too low a return compared to other opportunities. Same applies to all businesses.
At end of the day, no one can force anyone to insure anyone. And the tax payer should not do so either. We (the people and gov), are not insurers for high risk to claims businesses.
Of course, this could be sorted somewhat if we scrap childrens allowance and invest it all into early childcare like other countries do.
@Lar Meyler: Ok then. Say your creche insurance was 1K per year (just to use figures) for the last two years. Next year it now costs 4K. How can that increase be justified if there were no claims against the creche during the previous two years?
@Lar Meyler: What you’re leaving out there is everything has to be insured by law. The point people are making is how it’s justified that insurance is required by law and private companies are in charge of pricing. Since you have to get it whether you like it or not, and there’s virtually no competitive market for it, the few insurers that exist can charge whatever they want with no regulation. The fact that it is law makes the government line of “we can’t do anything” a gigantic load of bollocks.
@David Corrigan: Insurance costs are calculated across the full customer base, not just the individual. So when there are a lot of claims, everyone’s insurance goes up. A single claim can be 6 figures and then double that for legal costs of both sides.
I know it sucks but that is how it works for centuries.
@Lar Meyler: But the number of claims are not as high as the insurance sector are claiming, right?
@David Corrigan: The numbers published to date were solely for car.insurance.so not sure. But one thing is for certain, our court awards are on average 400% that of the UK and our legal.costs are a joke.
No business runs away from an opportunity to make a buck unless there are better opportunities elsewhere (uk pays higher insurance than Ireland!!) or the risk of losses is to high. That is just how things work.
Fianna Fáil (Charlie McCreevy) forced many, who want to be stay at home parents, into the workplace by making it unaffordable to stay at home. Then Fine Gael make it unaffordable to work or stay at home. When the election comes, remember these 2 are planning on ruling together again. Vote for anyone but them because regardless who else gets in, they can be no worse than these gangsters.
Well it’s another effect (though a rather obscure one) of Ireland’s compo culture being promoted and then milked by the legal profession!!
Typical of a govt with no strategy for childcare. There needs to be a different direction. Childcare costs for those lucky enough to find a place are astronomical. The whole industry is creaking at the seams. Not enough supply for demand, getting way too expensive. Taxing insurance company wont fix it structural issues within induatry. Offer families tax incentives through realistic tax credits for one family member to remain at home until secondary school. This should be based on tax stamps earned in past. Take kids out of system but make it financially viable for one parent to stop working. Not 1600 per year as it stands. Tax credits should bevin the region of 12,000 per year to make it viable to people.
Alan Farrell is the chair of the committee. Is this a wind-up? Am I living in an alternate universe? The same Alan Farrell who had a €15,000 personal injuries claim against Hertz? WTF. It’s like leaving a fox in charge of a hen house. This country.
And the staff still getting paid nothing!
Properly registered creche should be under a group insurance scheme negotiated and administered by each County Childcare Committee. This could be also in some way underwritten to a certain percentage by the relevant Department with responsiblity for children.
Insurance exploitation of the public by the insurance industry is rife in this country.
They can do a lot only when it comes to giving themselves or mates big money for nothing!
Insurance immediately gone up by €1,500….
Thank you.
Everyone: The market is screening us over
Government: we can’t interfere with the market
- neo liberal economics at its best
Yea yea – In power for 10 years – cost of living totally out of control but they promise to “engage” what does that mean?
They’re absolutely hopeless
The 1500 will drive up the insurance premiums again on Renewal as insurance companies know the government will keep giving
Meddling in markets again
Same as housing
The state should set up its own crèches if it wants crazy over regulation
With inspectors like schools not the 192 d Tusla wannabes
Our schools are good so it can be done
FG FF have let insurance companies away with fleecing customers for years,due to other people’s work they have been exposed and have no other choice.
Alan Farrell is the chair of the committee. Is this a wind-up? Am I living in an alternate universe? The same Alan Farrell who had a €15,000 personal injuries claim against Hertz? WTF. It’s like leaving a fox in charge of a hen house. This country.
What’s she been doing for the last four years
First they will force thousands of people out of work saying there is nothing we can do about it but when people start claiming dole suddenly they can do a lot – blame a welfare cheats!
1,500euros for each creche tax payers money str8 into insurance companies massive profits, thats money that wont be spent on public infrastructure and public services fine geal keeping the robbery going. The government should found their own insurance to put pressure on private insurance to lower it premiums not do like they did with hap paying for landlords houses and now paying for insurance companies higher profits
all abroad the government insurance profiteer gouging families train, hit us where it hurts most…. our kids, thanks fine geal fianna fail, feeling broke with fine geal
Engagement , is this a polite way of saying please help us
Meanwhile Bigfoot spotted in Dublin…
what about all the other insurance concerns while they are at it
Rubbish,waste of time, will not achieve a just result for affected services.
The industry does not give a curse about the Government,is almost totally off shore,totally profit driven,& it has repeatedly run rings around any regulation.
Minister,it is not an open transparent market,it is a rigged market on some very powerful native interests have a stranglehold,& they will continue to manipulate it to their joint agendas, maximum profit & outrageous fees.
You need to establish a state 3rd party fund to allow service providers, not alone crèches, but also social & charitable organisations,to operate within the law, & with liability security.
Just stop perpetually appeasing this industry, & put our people first. If they won’t play fairly, bypass them.
You make the laws, just make them for us.
Insurance companies are greedy money
Unfortunately Irish society depends on an outsourced childcare model. This is the free market, but with a sizeable state subsidy! Huge profits are made (Hyde & Seek Childcare Ltd profits after salaries amounted to almost €2.75 million). This is a competitive business, with smiley face branding.
Look it, enough of this nonsense. Childcare facilities and all other businesses should get together and declare that they are going to operate their businesses without public liability insurance.
What exactly can the government do?
The same goes for the TV licence. Why do we pay it? A mass boycott is all that’s required.
We really are a simple minded people to obey stupid laws.
Insurance for childcare facilities will now go up 1500
So now, not only are FFG turning a blind eye to the robbery of citizens by insurance companies, they are going to use our taxes to help PAY insurance costs!!
Our new found love of the big business and private sector killing us. They fleece us every time. Ireland is small easy to manipulate , claims of a compo culture but it’s greed culture that drives it, our soft touch, industry creating monopolies on the back of unfounded claims of a genetic genes of fraud. Prosecute fraudulent claims but stop letting these cowboys cherry pick profit margins.
As a once off emergency gesture of support, it is acceptable, but long term the only viable solution is for the state to establish a 3rd party compensation fund, so that people, crèches, & social organisations can operate within the law, & with liability security.
The market system is not functioning, competition inadequate, & manipulation evident, so it is urgently necessary to intervene directly.
There is no point in fiddling about with more investigations & reports, as the vested interests will continue to act in maximum profit & fees interests.
Just call off this perpetual poker game with our economic & social structures, & do it directly.
€1500. Big deal!
Engage, how about telling the what yo do to sort it out????
The Government needs to do a comprehensive review of Insurance because obviously
so called market competition is not moderating premium pricing.
have your say