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Bagenalstown garda station received a report of a sexual assault on Halloween night. Google Maps

Gardaí investigating assault of a female on Halloween night

As of yet, no arrests have been made.

GARDAÍ AT BAGENALSTOWN, Co Carlow are investigating an assault on a female that occurred on Halloween night between 11.30pm on Monday 31 October and 2.15am on Tuesday morning.

The location where the alleged incident occurred is yet to be identified.

Investigations are ongoing, and no arrests have been made.

If you have any information in relation to the incident contact Muinebheag (Bagenalstown) Garda Station on 059 972 1212, or any other garda station.

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4 Comments
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    Mute Chris Judge
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:08 PM

    Although it’s a long way off, I’m glad that they have finally committed to doing something about this.

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    Mute Claire McCarthy
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:28 PM

    No way should there be a wait until 2015 on this, equal rights are equal rights, why are we even being asked to vote on this?

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    Mute Chris Judge
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:30 PM

    I was thinking the same until I read a comment in another thread earlier this morning which swayed my mind.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/profile/53976/hi-davethats-precisely-steps-1772360/

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    Mute Claire McCarthy
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:43 PM

    Ah ok, that adds up, just seemed insane that we need to vote on weather to treat people equally or not

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    Mute Save Ireland
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:10 PM

    Because Claire , a lot of people dont want Marriage Redefined including myself , and it is only fair they have an input into it , after all we used to live in a Democracy .

    Lets say Marriage is redefined tomorrow , it is then open to further changes so that a person could perhaps seek to marry multiple partners or a family member or whatever , all kinds of situations could open up and then the whole meaning of marriage becomes lost.

    73
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    Mute Tom Ó Drisceoil
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:21 PM

    What utter nonsense. Marriage has been re-defined countless times over the centuries, when the need has arisen. Extending it to same-sex couples will de-value it about as much as its extension to mixed-race couples did in the US back in the 1960s. Face it: all of this “I don’t want marriage re-defined” stuff is just a façade for homophobia – and a pretty thin one at that!

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    Mute Chris Judge
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:22 PM

    @Save Ireland

    This point, that keeps cropping up every time SSM is debated, is not a valid point.

    Throughout history marriage has been redefined many, many times. Women were considered as property, bought by their husbands from their fathers when they married. Up until relatively recently in Ireland, they had to give up their jobs when they got married and became housewives automatically. No choice about it. What’s so wrong with redefining marriage to keep it relevant with today’s society?

    Why should two consenting adults, in a committed relationship with someone who happens to be of the same sex, not be able to commit themselves for the rest of their lives in the eyes of the government? Why should my future partner and I not get the same rights as any heterosexual couple?

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    Mute Save Ireland
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:33 PM

    Chris,

    all of those things you mention had nothing to do with the Contract of Marriage which was always between a Man and Woman and has not changed to this day .

    to answer your question ….. why should “THREE” consenting adults in a committed relationship with someone who happens to be of the same sex, not be able to commit themselves

    or four …. or five … or six ….

    you get the picture now chris.

    once its changed , its open to all kind of amendments to the extent where it becomes worthless.

    39
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    Mute Michael Hegarty
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:35 PM

    @Tom @Chris..Game, set and match…. You both just wiped the floor with Save Ireland…. thanks!!

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:35 PM

    It actually wouldn’t surprise me if Save Ireland thought marriage has gone downhill since it was “redefined” to allow women to own property.

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    Mute Chris Judge
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:36 PM

    Polygamy is not the same a SSM. I’m not arguing this point. It’s irrelevant.

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    Mute Smiley Ryan
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:37 PM

    Why not void all existing marriages until 2015. Why not make inheritance rights void until 2015, Like the Govt to interfere in your life?

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:37 PM

    And yes, actually, I think changing marriage so that I can enter it as an equal partner, rather than piece of property who can be legally raped and beaten was a pretty fundamental change. But a chance for the better. As is opening it up to other couples who want to make a commitment.

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    Mute Tom Ó Drisceoil
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:38 PM

    Marriage “was always between a Man and Woman”, was it? Even when it was between one man and four women, one man and ten women, and so on?

    If anything will devalue the marriages of straight couples, the bloody quares won’t be to blame. Marriages are most often destroyed from within.

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    Mute Tom Ó Drisceoil
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:39 PM

    @Michael: Thanks! :D

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    Mute Save Ireland
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:42 PM

    what year was this Tom ,

    when in Irish History could a man marry ten women ?

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    Mute Save Ireland
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:45 PM

    Nick

    what about people who would like to make a commitment to more than one person ?

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    Mute Tom Ó Drisceoil
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:45 PM

    History is much broader than one century or one island. Clearly, you’ve got some Ancient History to read up on!

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    Mute Dave Gorman
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:47 PM

    Save Ireland, why are you redefining this debate about equal marriage to be about polygamy. There is nothing stopping you campaigning for polygamy.

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:48 PM

    They can make their case and argue for it. I don’t know a single person in Ireland who is clamouring for it, so it’s irrelevant. If your only argument is “we can’t pass this referendum, because we’d have to pass any other referendum,” that makes about as much sense as claiming that we can’t keep caffeine legal because then people might want to do heroin. Society changes and evolves and redraws lines ALL THE TIME, in many areas.

    And I see you’ve ignored the point that marriage as an equal partnership is very different than marriage as a property agreement.

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    Mute Chris Judge
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:50 PM

    I’m going to repeat a previous comment, because clearly someone missed it.

    Same sex marriage has absolutely nothing to do with polygamy. We are talking about monogamous relationships between two people of the same sex being treated equally to relationships of heterosexual couples.

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    Mute Д Царь
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:54 PM

    Thats just blatant greed man

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    Mute Д Царь
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:55 PM

    Comment for save Ireland ^^

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    Mute Save Ireland
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:58 PM

    if two men or two women can marry , why cant three men or three women who want to marry not have an equal right to do the same , are the rights of two people greater than the rights of three people .

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    Mute Tom Ó Drisceoil
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:59 PM

    The polygamy argument is really just a decoy. The anti-equality campaigners bring it up to disguise the fact that their core argument is as sophisticated as “gays are yucky”. Or something equally asinine.

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    Mute Chris Judge
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:00 PM

    Save Ireland,

    By your logic, if one man can marry one woman, why can’t one man marry two women? Or one woman marry two men?

    This is pointless. It is not even remotely the same.

    86
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    Mute Save Ireland
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:15 PM

    Jason , I’m sorry , but there are plenty of members within the Gay Community who would not share your views , is this man backward or foolish…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeNrPJ42Xoo#t=11

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    Mute Save Ireland
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:21 PM

    Now you’ve hit the nail with the hammer.

    this is precisly why I dont think it should be redefined , I think it should stay between one man and one woman just the way it is , just the way its been handed down through generations of our ancestors , thats what marriage is , when you start redefining it , all kinds of scenarios arise like the ones you mention above chris.

    14
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    Mute Tom Ó Drisceoil
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:37 PM

    You’re making less and less sense with each post, Save Ireland. The proposed amendment won’t change the fact that marriage is between a man and a woman – it will simply mean that it will no longer be *only* between a man and a woman. You seem to be under the impression that allowing same-sex marriage will constitute a ban on opposite-sex marriage, or even a compulsion for straight people to marry someone of the same sex. You really do sound quite desperate.

    Heterosexual marriage is not being outlawed, devalued or cheapened. A man will still be able to marry a currently unmarried woman of consenting age, and a woman will still be able to marry a similar man. Marriage, as it currently is, will remain.

    What you don’t seem to realise is that clutching onto this notion tradition hurts people. It hurts LGBT people who want to feel that their relationships and their love are valued. It hurts their families and friends, who want to see their relationships and their shared lives placed on an equal footing with their own under the constitution of this country.

    It’s going to happen sooner or later, because it needs to. And you can choose either to be swamped by the tide of progress or to move with it.

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    Mute M O Sé
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:46 PM

    Save Ireland, there’s no reasoning, these folks are driven by emotion.

    The claim that same sex relationships should be treated the same as heterosexual relationships wouldn’t even have been entertained 25 years ago.

    It’s likely this ref wil be defeated anyway so I’m not too worried.

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    Mute Hanneke Vermolen
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:49 PM

    Save Ireland. If polygamy was up for legalisation then you would be free to debate for or against it. The only thing up for referendum for marriage is same sex marriage. Please stop trying to throw your non applicable arguments into the mix

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    Mute Erin Tormey
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:49 PM

    Excellently put.

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    Mute Penelope Wizzlehurst
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:50 PM

    25 years ago it was also illegal for female civil servants to work outside of marriage. I’m not sure where you get your confidence from M O Se, but this referendum was requested by the people of Ireland specifically to implement the changes they want.

    71
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    Mute Ruth Maxwell
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:54 PM

    Stick to the topic at hand!

    28
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    Mute Michelle Mc Loughney
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:58 PM

    Yes we will all be marrying our siblings, pets etc. Where did this ridiculous argument come from? Gay people and supporters of gay marriage want the SAME rights as heterosexuals, not a load of crazy scenarios. The usual brainwashed spin by people who are afraid of change.

    60
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    Mute Joanne Scanlon
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:09 PM

    Ah jaysus really you think the flood gates will open if we allow same sex marraige? These people are humans and if they wish to marry they deserve that basic human right. Imagine a gay couple together for say 20 odd years totally in love and committed to one another but refused the right to marry. Say one of them becomes terminally ill, they’re partner has zero rights in that instance. If the hospital said family only than that person would be denied the right to see the person they love in their final moments. I mean that’s sick. They are people same as you. Do you think all gay people want to get married?no they dont same as straight people. But they deserve the choice. Religion is the only reason this is an issue, a badly translated book that contains stories that have no basis in anything and rather offer moral guidelines on how we should love but the contradictions in the church mesage is laughable. Treat others as you wish to be treated. That’s the only one that is worth hanging your hat on and in denying gay marraige you deny people this. Human rights for everybody there is no difference.

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    Mute Hanneke Vermolen
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:09 PM

    25 years ago, left handed people were thought to have the devil controlling them, 25 years ago women were subservient to men, 25 years ago men were still allowed to force themselves on their wives without consent and that was seen as a right. Times change, opinion changes and things change. Equality is one of the changes that I will be glad to see in my lifetime. Anti gay people will be looked at in the same way as those who thought slavery was right, and that white people were superior.

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    Mute Barra Ó Tuathail
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:12 PM

    ” I think it should stay between one man and one woman just the way it is , just the way its been handed down through generations of our ancestors” (Save Ireland)

    @Save Ireland

    Funny you should mention our ancestors, particularly in relation to the polygamy red herring. Under Brehon Law polygamy was legal in Ireland and was practiced into the 17th century.

    I assume then you’ll have no problem if we just revert to polygamy? Marriage between one man and as many women as he can support, just the way its been handed down through generations of our ancestors. After-all, it’s monogamy that has corrupted and undermined the fabric of traditional polygamous marriage on this island. Pesky monogamists. Down with that sort of thing! Won’t someone please think of the children (of both my wives) etc.

    Before you say, yeah, but that was 400 years ago, times have changed, well, in 2400, this will be 400 years ago, and times will have changed again. As they do.

    The fact is, we’ve actually already redefined “traditional” marriage in this country, at least once. It’s time to do so again.

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    Mute M O Sé
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:15 PM

    It was pushed for by liberal leftist elements within FG and Lab who were placed in the const convention eg bacik who as an experienced politition could drive the debate, the govt even set what was to be discussed. I don’t see the ref for initiative led referendums announced despite that been approved of by the cceven. The govt dosnt have to act but is choosing too.

    Excommunications all round methinks.

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    Mute Eamonn Colfer
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:24 PM

    Save Ireland, marriage was also defined when inter-racial marriage was legalised. Do you think that was wrong too?

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    Mute Mary Kavanagh
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:37 PM

    Save Ireland, I don’t think marriage is going to be redefined as “relationship between three, four, five or six people” as only two people can be married to each other at any one time, in this jurisdiction. Otherwise it would be bigamy. So you needn’t worry your head about hypothetical, irrelevant scenarios.

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    Mute Tom Ó Drisceoil
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:38 PM

    This isn’t Twitter, you don’t have to abbreviate so much!

    If you ask me, the Government needed to act on this issue, inasmuch as they represent the people. If the people want this to happen, in a democracy, the Government must take steps to make it so. Why the need for a referendum, I really don’t know. The constitution, as it stands, doesn’t actually define marriage in terms of gender. The Civil Registration Act 2004 does that (‘For the purposes of this Act there is an impediment to a marriage if [...] both parties are of the same sex.’)

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    Mute Mary Kavanagh
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:40 PM

    To say norhing of current societal norms outside of this jurisdiction. A clue for you, Save Ireland; think some Middle Eastern and African countries where polygamy is accepted.

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    Mute Tim Higgins
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:45 PM

    Wow! This campaign is been planned with military style precision.

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    Mute Tracy TrayBoo O'Riordan
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:51 PM

    Oh shut up!

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    Mute Chris Judge
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:56 PM

    Save Ireland,

    You’ve clearly missed the (what I thought was, I guess I was wrong) obvious point I was trying to make.

    You clearly have no idea on the history of marriage or the “way its been handed down through our generations of our ancestors”.

    Barra Ó Tuathail has made a great point on this argument, completely invalidating your argument.

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    Mute Andrew Reddin
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    Nov 5th 2013, 7:15 PM

    “all of those things you mention had nothing to do with the Contract of Marriage which was always between a Man and Woman and has not changed to this day .”

    Well, actually marriage has included gay couples in some of the even earliest reports of the tradition. It was even legal in the Roman Empire until the Christians took over and decided to change the values of marriage to suit their own views.

    (I’m agnostic but I don’t judge people on their fate, but there is a reason I phrased the end of my comment that way.)

    17
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    Mute paul breslin
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    Nov 5th 2013, 7:19 PM

    @Save Ireland
    Are you going to bring up the man marrying dog argument and adults marrying children ?
    Move on buddy and catch up with the rest of us in the 21st century. In 40 years time people will wonder what the fuss was about and wonder why people opposed something so simple. You’re on the wrong side of history as is usual with the no voters on any subject.
    If you don’t like gay marriage or abortion then don’t get one. So don’t worry your sky daddy will be happy you remain a bigot.

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    Mute Tracy TrayBoo O'Riordan
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    Nov 5th 2013, 7:34 PM

    This comment was aimed @save Ireland by the way.

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    Mute Anthony Hennessy
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    Nov 5th 2013, 7:57 PM

    Hear Hear Tracy :-)

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    Mute Lukasz Windak
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    Nov 5th 2013, 8:12 PM

    I’d say Save Ireland is big into threesomes and group fun :P

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    Mute David Higgs
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    Nov 5th 2013, 9:13 PM

    Marriage has evolved throughout time. Even in the Old Testament, Abraham, Moses etc had more than 1 wife – God didn’t have too many problems with that. He even said that men should marry their brother’s wife on the death of their brother!

    The thing with gay marriage is that no one is forcing it on anyone, Adam won’t have to marry Steve unless the two of them want to.

    A lot if the arguments to gay marriage are ridiculous – if anyone wants a laugh, watch louis K
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtJ_sDRRVVI

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    Mute Brian Byrne
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    Nov 5th 2013, 9:46 PM

    Well I have always wanted to marry my cat.

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    Mute Padfoot
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    Nov 5th 2013, 10:25 PM

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion….but I’m sorry, yours is completely ignorant. #StraightButNotNarrow

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    Mute Padfoot
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    Nov 5th 2013, 10:27 PM

    If the people in question are also happy with it that should be their decision! Who are you to tell people who they can and can’t be with?

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    Mute Michael Kitching
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    Nov 5th 2013, 11:11 PM

    “Excommunications all round methinks.”

    Lucky bastards, if it were only that easy for the rest of us.

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    Mute Save Ireland
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    Nov 6th 2013, 5:37 PM

    How is the constitutional convention which is made up of Failed Politicians like Ivana Bacik allowed to initiate referendums to change the constitution for their own personal desires .

    I mean Ivana Bacik stood before the Irish people 3 times in elections , on each occasion they turned her down

    I mean does that not send a message to her and her university buddies that perhaps they dont agree with her liberal ideology .

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    Mute Gobblor
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:05 PM

    About time ignorant people moved on from their bigoted outdated views. Still not sure why equal rights need to be feckin’ voted on, but it’s something at least…

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    Mute Peter_Artnold
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:25 PM

    They can keep their view or move on from them but people here have to accept that what you think does not dictate what others should do in the privacy of their own homes, who are any of us to judge and also who really cares what anyone else thinks. People have been frozen with fear in Ireland of what will the neighbours say instead of trying to be good people.

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    Mute Cian Doherty
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:27 PM

    Marriage is a privilege not a right.

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    Mute Michael Hegarty
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:30 PM

    Think you got that one the wrong way around Cian.

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    Mute Colin Kavanagh
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:30 PM

    Actually it is a right, you don’t have to be privileged to get married but currently you do have to be heterosexual.

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    Mute Chris Judge
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:31 PM

    @Cian,

    And what makes two adults of the same sex any less deserving of that privilege?

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    Mute Keith Wizzy
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:38 PM

    Cian I’d never marry you cause of your small pecker.

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    Mute Mark Downes
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:43 PM

    Cian – Even if marriage were a “privilege”, what’s that got to do with whether same sex couples should be allowed to marry?

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    Mute Joey JoeJoe Shabadoo
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:57 PM

    Cian…. when gay marrage is compulsory, I will look past your many flaws & join you in sweaty man-love matrimony, based on our mutual support for Chelsea.

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:49 PM

    You’re confusing me with Joey Joe Joe – but luckily, he’s willing to overlook your personality for Chelsea fandom.

    Using anti- trans language as an insult – sadly not surprising.

    29
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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:00 PM

    My, my, such a classy fellow! The ladies will surely come a-running

    Why would you consider it to be an insult to someone to label them as transgendered? I’m cis, but why on earth would it make my opinions less valid if I was trans?

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    Mute Shane Boyle-Simms
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:00 PM

    you should hide your photos on twitter Cian – beer , football, naked women and toilets..says at all really

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    Mute Cian Doherty
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:07 PM

    Shane you don’t like beer, football or the beauty of the female body in all its glory that’s your issue I don’t feel the need to hide anything behind fake online profiles including my opinions unlike yourself.

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    Mute Seán Gallagher
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:14 PM

    Cian, in referring back to your post a little while ago:

    “Sorry people I must have missed the part about marriage being a human right in the UN Declaration of Human Rights.”

    You did….

    From the UN Convention on Human Rights:
    Article 16.

    (1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.

    (2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.

    (3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.

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    Mute Enola Straight
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:20 PM

    FFS we have more to be worried about. Fcuking referendums.

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    Mute Save Ireland
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:23 PM

    your right Cian , there is no such human right ,

    There are a lot of people within the Gay Community that dont even want Marriage .

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    Mute BcuTCM0P
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:24 PM

    Sean in all fairness it says nothing about sexuality there.

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    Mute Tom Ó Drisceoil
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:28 PM

    “Marriage is a privilege, not a right.”

    Clearly, so is intelligence.

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    Mute Chris Judge
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:31 PM

    @James,

    You’re right, it says nothing about sexuality. So why should homosexuals not be afforded this Human Right?

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    Mute Shane Boyle-Simms
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:31 PM

    and there are a lot of people within the straight community who don’t want marriage – whats your point?

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    Mute Seán Gallagher
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:32 PM

    Hey James,

    You’re right, but it doesn’t mention hair colour, bad breath or a grá for Eastenders either.

    What it does say is that it is a right of all men and women of age to marry. I never claimed that SSM was protected specifically, but the right to marriage is.

    Not wanting to make a pedantic or semantic argument that it doesn’t NOT say it, in fact from the second point it just refers to spouses (not a man and woman / husband and wife), but my only point is that it is in fact a human rights issue and that marriage is in no way a privilege as some here would vehemently suggest.

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    Mute Geert Wilders
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:36 PM

    People I for one am not in favour of SSM as outlined in some of my comments below (which by the way does not mean I am a homophobe) but I can’t understand the need to debase the debate by flinging around personal attacks and insults on both sides it only stifles the discussion and I can’t see how some of this stuff hasn’t violated the comments policy. People really should try and stick to the issue and debate their opinions in a civilized manner.

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    Mute Save Ireland
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:38 PM

    my point is that they dont want the right to marry , they believe it should be kept between a man and woman.

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    Mute Brian O'Sullivan
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:38 PM

    @Save Ireland, 100 lots of women didn’t want women to have the right to vote. What’s your point?

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    Mute David Healy
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:39 PM

    @Cian

    Ciúnas bothar cailín bainne….

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    Mute Shane Boyle-Simms
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:40 PM

    not a Homophobe? stop kidding yourself – you are the worst kind. You refer to the fight for marriage equality as a liberal abomination. Cilvilized? start by looking at youself

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    Mute Seán Gallagher
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:42 PM

    Save Ireland,

    Can you cite a source for that statement of fact?

    Presumably if members of the LGBT community don’t want the right to marry, there is some sort of information about it out there?

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    Mute Shane Boyle-Simms
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:45 PM

    @ save Ireland – many woman were against the suffragette movement. should women have been denied the right to vote because other women were against it???????

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    Mute Save Ireland
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:49 PM

    Shane ,

    I’m not denying your right to vote on the issue , of course you can vote on the issue , but I will be voting No.

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    Mute Save Ireland
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:50 PM

    I’m not Gay , but I hope the voices of Gay people opposed to the Bill will not be shouted down.

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:50 PM

    Don’t give him ideas, lads, he’ll be clamouring to end women’s suffrage next.

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    Mute Erin Tormey
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:54 PM

    @saveireland Are you joking? Can you seriously think that the millions of people who campaign for gay rights and same sex marriage “don’t want the right to marry” and “believe it should be kept between a man and woman”? Perhaps there is a minority within the gay community who feel this way, but personally, I’ve never witnessed this. I find it completely baffling that you can choose to see the countless campaigns for equal rights for gay people like this. If you’re not joking, I really pity your narrow mind.

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    Mute Donna Marie Marshall
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:11 PM

    I would like to know, How would any marriage effect you personally? Other people’s marriages are their own weather that is hetro, gay, convenient multi and nobody else’s business but their own. As the fella said “everyone should have the right to be equally unhappy if they want”.

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    Mute Luke Sullivan
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:43 PM

    What’s ‘cis’ Nick?

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    Mute Richard Keogh
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:06 PM

    @ save ireland I’m gay and don’t want to marry, I find marriage to be outdated, that is very different from saying someone is against marriage equality. If someone wants to marry, be they gay or straight, then that should be their right and neither you nor I should have any say in the matter.

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    Mute Thomas Maher
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:14 PM

    Produce one other than the guy that was on prime time debate save Ireland.

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    Mute Giz
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:15 PM

    Cisgender refers to someone who identifies as the gender that their sexual organs indicate. It’s complimentary to transgender in the way heterosexual compliments homosexual.

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:16 PM

    It means I’m not transgendered, Luke.

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    Mute Joe Valentine
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:31 PM

    It means she’s afraid to say she’s normal because incase someone gets offended. Another silly made up label for a person

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:40 PM

    Newsflash: we’re all normal. Normal is a silly made up label.

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    Mute Padfoot
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    Nov 5th 2013, 10:31 PM

    There are also lots of people in the heterosexual community who don’t want marriage. What’s your point?

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    Mute Michael Kitching
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    Nov 5th 2013, 11:16 PM

    Actually it is.

    The UN Convention on Human Rights states:

    Article 16.
    (1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
    (2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
    (3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.

    Do you have sources to back your claim that “a lot” of gay people don’t want to marry? Even if true, so what? No one is forcing them to marry? What about those who do?

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 6th 2013, 12:56 AM

    @ Gobblor

    Still not sure why we have to change to suit gay people when they won’t change to suit us, but it’s something to think about at least…

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 6th 2013, 5:02 AM

    @ Peter_Artnold

    what others do in the privacy of their own homes
    should not dictate how the rest of us define marriage

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    Mute Hanneke Vermolen
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    Nov 6th 2013, 6:47 AM

    You don’t have to change at all Michael, you can stay hate filled & bigoted in your previous little bubble reality. The only thing that will change is gay people will be allowed to get married and the children they already have & future adoptive children will have better legal rights. Because you keep harping on and on about man + woman = baby and not man + man or woman + man but you do realise that gay men & gay women are already adopting children legally in Ireland don’t you? So marriage equality will not change that fact, it would give that child better legal rights so you must be very anti children as well if you would deny them a better legal standing in life.

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    Mute Deirdre Mallin
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:07 PM

    Why should we have to vote for 2 people who love each other to be allowed to marry! It’s a basic human right!

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    Mute Ryan Ash
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:11 PM

    This answer from earlier perfectly sums up the reasoning why many believe it may be safer to have a referendum than go the legislative route:

    http://www.thejournal.ie/profile/53976/hey-davewhile-prohibitive-article-constitution-searching-in-civil-1771779/

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    Mute John F
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:18 PM

    Marriage is not a human right, just like a relationship is not a human right, both are priveleges!

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    Mute Glass Half Full
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:20 PM

    That’s really lovely Deirdre.
    If it were only that simple!

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    Mute Marcello Mobelli
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:22 PM

    People who identify themselves as gay have the same rights relating to marriage as everyone else. An unmarried person of mature age is free to marry another person of the opposite sex, also unmarried and of mature age, who consents to that marriage. There’s no discrimination.
    People will talk about love but marriage has never been solely about love. People are free to express their love for others in many different ways.

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    Mute Michael Hegarty
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:36 PM

    Iona Institute are out in force again today, claiming marriage is not a right. Marriage between 2 loving people is a right and those in love are privileged to be in love also.

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    Mute Shane Boyle-Simms
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:41 PM

    @ Marcello – people like you pulled that line when it was illegal for interracial couples to marry.They were not being discriminated against as they could marry anyone from their own race.Would you agree?

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    Mute Marcello Mobelli
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:00 PM

    No Shane I wouldn’t agree, it’s a totally different issue. The few people who would oppose interracial marriages still recognise such unions as true marriage. That’s what they fear and want to avoid.

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    Mute James
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:03 PM

    Michael… why assume that its members of the iona institute, while always linking the catholic church up to suit your own views ?

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:12 PM

    That is the view of the Catholic Church – despite civil marriage being totally outside their authority or relevance. Sad that they would limit the religious freedom of others who support equal marriage.

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    Mute Shane Boyle-Simms
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:21 PM

    Its exactly the same issue Marcello- discrimination and when same sex marriage becomes a reality it will be recognised as true marriage ( whatever that is) and this is what you fear and want to avoid.

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    Mute Emilio
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:56 PM

    Marcello, what the heck is your problem with what other people decide to do with their marriages?

    There are plenty of heterosexual marriages out there that are pure mockery of what a ‘true marriage’ should be about (love, trust, intimacy…). Yet those are a-ok?

    That the state recognises a particular type of union and grants it privileges over others is an unfair discrimination, and should disappear.

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    Mute denisj
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:01 PM

    John, you’re not the only one making this mistake, but take a look at article 16 http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/

    Marriage is a human right.

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    Mute Michael Hegarty
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:50 PM

    @James “while always linking the Catholic church up to suit your (my) own views?”…. let’s just see….1) I am a practicing Catholic, thpugh that is none of your business….2) Why did u use the word “always”, Can you refer to any time I spoke negatively about the church, which is my right btw (Answer: No)…3) Iona Institute is out in force on this issue, and sending texts out to their cohorts (FACT!!!)….4) Stop hiding behind an anonymous egg on twitter!!!

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    Mute Michael Hegarty
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:01 PM

    @ JAMES A quote from your twitter account “I just bashed gay marriage”….and another “I just bashed Islam”…..what sort of spanner are you?… go back under your rock for another few centuries until they find a cure for bigotry!!!

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    Mute Michelle Mc Loughney
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:04 PM

    You can’t even spell it ffs!

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    Mute Michelle Mc Loughney
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:06 PM

    Because at least sky daddy supporters have been brainwashed into homophobia. Non religious opponents of gay marriage are just backward.

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    Mute Michael Kitching
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    Nov 5th 2013, 11:18 PM

    Actually if you read anything about human rights, you’ll see in the UN Convention on Human Rights:
    Article 16.

    (1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
    (2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
    (3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 6th 2013, 5:09 AM

    backward ?

    stuff is supposed to come out of that part of your body,, not go in

    nature is cruel

    LOL

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    Mute Hanneke Vermolen
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    Nov 6th 2013, 6:50 AM

    You seem particularly focused on gay men and their anatomy, are gay women okay then as they don’t use, in your opinion, the wrong orifice?

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    Mute Richard O'Neill
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:10 PM

    I can only imagine how bitter the civil marriage debate will be when the papists get into full swing trying to dress their rampant homophobia up as concerns for children/tradition etc.

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    Mute Ryan Ash
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:13 PM

    The fact that several referendums will be held at the same time will probably be a good thing tactically for those campaigning for same-sex marriage.

    More referendums mean less airtime for the anti-crowd to swing public opinion to their side with crazy lies.

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    Mute John Everyman
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:20 PM

    Let them come out swinging with all their bigotry; we just have to watch them hang themselves with their own rope.

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    Mute John F
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:24 PM

    @Dave. More like opinions from the common sense side, I’ll tell you what I’ll vote yes if we can have a referendum on legalising pologamy and consensual (adult) incest relationships at the same time. Any relationship(s) between adults should be legal right? Society has no business on deciding whats moral/ethical anymore.

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    Mute Dave Gorman
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:32 PM

    John, campaign for a referendum on whatever issues. It’s only took gay people 20 years to go from criminals to actually looking at marriage.

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:32 PM

    I love inherent contradictions. Thus
    “if we can have a referendum on legalising pologamy and consensual (adult) incest relationships at the same time” next to “Society has no business on deciding whats moral/ethical anymore.”

    By definition, having a referendum is society deciding what is moral and ethical. Society has decided marriage equality qualifies.

    Now, run along and prepare your petition for a referendum on polygamy.

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    Mute John F
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:34 PM

    I’m bisexual and I’m in a commited relationship with 2 girlfriends and 3 boyfriends and we have a right to be joined in a union of marriage, Now 2 of my 5 partners happen to be my first cousins but thats none of societies business how we live our lives, we demand our human rights and our right to adopt children into our lives also. Sure 4 dads and 2 mothers our family far superior to any 2 parent family. Roll on our referendum 2015!

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    Mute Keith Wizzy
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:41 PM

    I left John F because he wets the bed :(

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:43 PM

    Irish law allows you to marry your first cousins, actually. Before railing about society and how right on the archaic views of marriage, perhaps, I don’t know, research them?

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    Mute Michael Hegarty
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:43 PM

    John F, the fact you could come up with thoughts like that says more about you and your dirty filthy mind than it does about this issue. I genuinely hope that someday you and your elk will be at peace with your minds.

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    Mute Shane Boyle-Simms
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:43 PM

    go out and march for your right to legalise polygamy no one is stopping you

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    Mute Sean ORegan
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:53 PM

    John F you are being silly now… It is already legal to marry your first cousin.. you just need a dispensation. Of course perhaps you should campaign for the age of consent to be lowered so that it matches that of the Vatican. And who is to say there is anything wrong with polygamy.. it works in many societies.

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    Mute Colm Durkan
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:56 PM

    Little rule of thumb, when you’re argument is at the point of engaging in reductio ad absurdum, it’s clear to everyone that you’ve run out of valid points. John F’s argument starts at that point.

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    Mute Susie
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:18 PM

    You might want to change that to one girlfriend John F, I am OUT of this relationship. Your views are outdated, your arguments are not very good and I am not going to get on very well with the mother-in-law when I’m in a relationship with her son, nephew and niece. She’s definitely going to like yous more. Plus, the orgies put me to sleep.

    Roll on 2015 is right, I hope to God it gets passed.

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    Mute Chris Judge
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:21 PM

    @Tom,

    You clearly have a dirty mind if that’s the first thing you think of when we are talking about marriage – What goes on in the bedroom has nothing to do with it!

    But maybe, with an attitude like that, you have even thought about doing it yourself?

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    Mute Susie
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:21 PM

    Tom, is it alright if he sticks it up a woman’s bum? I’m dead serious asking that, is two men having anal sex wrong, or is anal sex in general wrong?

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    Mute Shane Boyle-Simms
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:23 PM

    @ Tom ..Sex that’s all you bigots are concerned with or should I say obsessed with.

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    Mute Thomas Maher
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:25 PM

    You only need a dispensation to get married in a church. You can have a civil marriage with out one.

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    Mute Sheik Yahbouti
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:39 PM

    Leave innocent elks out of it.

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    Mute John F
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:44 PM

    @Michael Hegarty. ‘Dirty and Filthy’ Who are you to describe relations between consenting adults as dirty and filthy? Come Now, surely the whole foundation of this argument that its nobodies business what consenting adults get up to?
    @Susie. Come back I can change, it wasn’t me who wet the bed, it was Keith Wizzy, he got jealous cuz you are my fav!

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    Mute Marcello Mobelli
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:48 PM

    Yeah Big Ian, sorry Richie, call the referendum’s opponents papists and you just got to win it!

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    Mute Jay
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:56 PM

    Tommy, You have a sick mind. I actually feel very embaressed for you and you’re poor tasting comment.

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    Mute Grot Master
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:24 PM

    It’s very wrong but oh, so good.

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    Mute Tom Ó Drisceoil
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:35 PM

    It’s funny. The anti-equality people are always the first to make the ‘argument’ that homosexuality is ‘disgusting’, and yet they’re invariably the first to talk about willies, bottoms and vaginas. It makes you wonder, doesn’t it… ? :)

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    Mute Michael Hegarty
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    Nov 5th 2013, 8:39 PM

    @ John F. I was referring to your dirty and filthy thoughts that you have shared with us. Poor you!

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    Mute John F
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    Nov 5th 2013, 8:42 PM

    @Michael. What dirty filthy thoughts? I merely described my lifestyle, the ‘dirty filthy’ thoughts are in your own head pal!

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 5th 2013, 10:12 PM

    @ Nick Beard

    no
    knacker law allows you to marry your cousins

    the rest of us consider that inbreeding

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Nov 5th 2013, 10:16 PM

    If by “knackers”, you mean the British royal family – they were the reason it wasn’t prohibited.

    So much for thinking traditional marriage is a good thing!

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    Mute Shauna Mooney
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:06 PM

    Just bleeding do it today.. What is the f*cking problem… Referendum = cost to taxpayers and bigots to vote no.. No need for this…

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    Mute Peter_Artnold
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:31 PM

    I’d expect a lot of people to vote no to this and other referendums to punish the Govt. There is a very strong tradition of cutting off the nose to spite the face when Irish voters are angry.

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    Mute Colm Mufc Connolly
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:45 PM

    Except for the one last month about a court of appeal, most people are not educated enough to make up there own minds without bringing the government into it

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    Mute Emmet Gilgunn
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:51 PM

    Not too sure about that. I would imagine there would be quite a few fg members that would want a no vote. It is a conservative party so voting for gay marriage (that I’d support) may spite them. I’m not sure how having too many referendums on the same day will work well as usually only one voter messege gets put across by party’s properly so I would expect confusion . Unless that is what kenny wants as confused voters vote no or don’t vote

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    Mute Enola Straight
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:22 PM

    Wow. “Not educated enough”. And YOU are I suppose?

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    Mute Tom Sullivan
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    Nov 5th 2013, 9:37 PM

    @Colm That has to be the most contemptuous, pompous and ignorant comment I’ve seen on The Journal in quite a while. Let me guess, the people voted according to establishment wishes in the Court of Appeal referendum, so therefore they are “educated” in your lofty opinion. When they voted against what the establishment wanted, they were “not educated enough” in the view of Your Lordship.

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    Mute Ryan Ash
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:08 PM

    Although I am disappointed that it isn’t on the same day as the European and local elections next year, at least knowing that it will be within 18 months with all the other Constitutional Convention referendums is good news.

    If there are several referendums the same day, hopefully that a) higher turnout and b) people voting on the different issues rather than voting to punish the government.

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    Mute John F
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:20 PM

    This country is still majority conservative at its core, I wouldn’t hold your breath.

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    Mute Ryan Ash
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:32 PM

    I disagree and would say that in general Ireland is now a more centrist country than ever before.

    The only problem is that certain groups don’t bother so much to vote in referendums and that is what leads to their voices not being heard so much.

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    Mute Marc Euclio O'Connell
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:10 PM

    I think Ireland is on the whole a centre-leftist country. You’r right though, the left are usually the ones who are more disenchanted with democracy which is a bit self defeating because the Iona Institute and the church are great and bringing out the vote when they need it leading to more disillusionment. It should be a core goal of the Irish left to rebuild if not trust than at least some confidence in our democratic state.

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    Mute Grot Master
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:11 PM

    I concur, despite all protestations to the contrary and pliant acquiescence of the new social norm, the average Irish heterosexual male is deeply suspicious of gay men and unlikely to vote in favour of a further normalisation of homosexuality.

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    Mute Shane Boyle-Simms
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:36 PM

    speaking for yourself – clearly

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    Mute Jim Walsh
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:36 PM

    My reservation about holding it on the same date as the elections next year is that in all likelihood there is going to be a significant anti-Government vote at these elections. Because the referendum would be a government proposal there is a strong chance the people who were voting against the Government would just vote against this as well even if the parties they were voting for were in favour of it.

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    Mute Grot Master
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:47 PM

    Definitely true for most of my adult life, but in recent years I’ve come lose the prejudices of a life in rural Ireland. Having a gay mate had a lot to do with it. Still give him plenty of stick, though.

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    Mute Mary Kavanagh
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:44 PM

    You hope, John F!

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    Mute Michael Kitching
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    Nov 5th 2013, 11:20 PM

    “the average Irish heterosexual male is deeply suspicious of gay men”

    Pure bullshit

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    Mute Kelly Davis-Jordan
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    Nov 6th 2013, 1:33 AM

    If an Irish heterosexual male is ‘deeply suspicious of gay men’ then maybe he is just afraid they will treat him the way he treats women. I’m glad I don’t know any men like that, I’m sure they exist, there will always be bigots but I don’t know one heterosexual man who is against SSM, not even my 75 year old Dad.

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    Mute Neal Keating
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:21 PM

    Glad it’s happening but should be way sooner. The excuse that the people are suffering from ‘referendum fatigue’ is pure pipe talk.

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    Mute Joey JoeJoe Shabadoo
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:26 PM

    Agreed….that they think we get tired from voting an opinion is baffling & a bit insulting.

    I’d be happy for a referendum every week if it fixed the mess we have for a constitution.

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    Mute Peter_Artnold
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:32 PM

    I think they know that it would loose at this stage as a lot of angry people are just going to look at what Kenny and Gilmore call for and vote the opposite way.

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:40 PM

    I can’t see a lot of people voting against *this* referendum as a protest vote.

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    Mute Michael Hegarty
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:53 PM

    @Joey… Shatter recons the public have “referendum fatigue”…exhausting stuff apparently…. there should be a referendum app with a question put to the people every week.

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    Mute Joey JoeJoe Shabadoo
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:59 PM

    Fantastic idea Michael.

    I’d download that.

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    Mute Colin C
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:14 PM

    @Nick – unfortunately your faith in Irish voters is misplaced. This referendum could be lost because those who vote least are the ones who support it most. Hopefully the government will stay out of the debate and provide the funding to pro-rights groups to fight the campaign against Iona and the usual bigots; thereby avoiding at least the risk of having people use this as a vote on their local potholes.

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    Mute bigjake
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:18 PM

    Nick, I can see people vote against it, if the tweets above are representative of those who are in favour.

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    Mute Jim Walsh
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:45 PM

    @Joey/Neal/Michael – If there is no such things as ‘referendum fatigue’ can you please explain why the number of people who have voted in the last three referendums has been less than 40%

    Even though one of these referendums was about to make the most significant change to our system of government since the foundation of the State over 60% of people couldn’t be bothered to go and express an opinion on it.

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    Mute Smiley Ryan
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:58 PM

    @Joey… It’s called Direct Democracy, but our Govt don’t want to entertain that idea, It would make them redundant, how they should be.

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    Mute M O Sé
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:17 PM

    Was wondering when we would see the “B” word.

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    Mute Sean Costello
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:23 PM

    Why are some people saying this is a basic human right? I’m in agreement that people should be allowed to marry as they see fit but calling it a basic human right for anyone, regardless of sexuality, to get married is ridiculous. Basic human rights are along the lines of rights to food, clean water, rights to vote etc. It is a right not to be discriminated against but please stop muddying the waters by calling this something it isn’t.

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    Mute Ryan Ash
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:27 PM

    You’ll get red thumbed into the ground for saying it, but I do see the point you are trying to make. I’d call the right to marry a human right, not a *basic* human right.

    Basic human rights are those needed to survive from one day to the next – water, food, shelter etc.

    Human rights go beyond the basic ones and I’d include the right to vote and the right to marry in this category.

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:30 PM

    The UN disagrees with you, actually – the right to marry and found a family is part of the UN Declaration of Human Rights.

    Now, you might not consider it a human right, but that’s rather arbitrary.

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    Mute Deirdre Mallin
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:34 PM

    Good point

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    Mute See My Vest
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:57 PM

    @Nick “Right to marry and found a family” same sex couples cannot “found a family”

    I’m voting yes on this all day long but that’s the sort of tripe that iona and co will spew in the lead up to this referendum. You gotta be careful with your words or you just hand ammunition to the No brigade!

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:00 PM

    Of course same sex couples can found a family – both through adoption and through reproductive technology. Since when are adoptive parents or couples who use IVF not founding families?

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    Mute See My Vest
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:03 PM

    Lad I’m in total support of this whole thing and have been for years but I’m just pointing out the crap we’ll hear in the build up.

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    Mute See My Vest
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:06 PM

    My point is that marriage does not equate to starting a family. Thats the only argument that will be made against marriage equality. Marriage is about two people in love committing their lives to eachother. It’s not a contractual obligation to found a family. That’s another battle altogether.

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    Mute Glass Half Full
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:19 PM

    Nick. The UN article 16 that you refer to is designed to be deliberately vague. It can, and has been argued by both sides to this debate, with plausible arguments delivered successfully by each side.

    It’s not a reliable rebuttal.

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:35 PM

    The only thing Article 16 rebuts is the idea that marriage isn’t that important – the idea of what is a human right is quite arbitrary anyway, but it can certainly include family rights – and has been held by both the UN and the ECHR

    And I would argue that actually, a marriage always results in a family. Even if it’s just a family of two. I’d consider myself and my partner to be a family, even if we don’t have children.

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    Mute Brian O'Sullivan
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:46 PM

    To follow up on Nick’s point, the Constitution is clear that marriage is the basis of the family, not children. The Supreme Court has ruled that a married couple with no children is constitutionally, and therefore legally, recognised as a family and they enjoy the rights and protections that recognition brings.

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    Mute Ethan Devlin
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:12 PM

    This is a issue that needs to be dealt with now, not in 2015. It’s a basic human right.

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    Mute Save Ireland
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:12 PM

    There is no such ‘human right’ to marry ,

    Are you saying someone should be allowed to marry their pet rabbit ?

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:23 PM

    people choose to marry

    that doesn’t make it a ”human right”

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    Mute Joey JoeJoe Shabadoo
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:39 PM

    Who is this “save Ireland” f*ckwit?

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:48 PM

    I’d recommend you lads read the whole comments section before starting with this debunked “not a human right” stuff.

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    Mute Tom Sullivan
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    Nov 5th 2013, 9:39 PM

    @Joey JoeJoe This “save Ireland” f*ckwit is someone with an opinion that is obviously the opposite of that held by the Joey JoeJoe Shabadoo f*ckwit. I don’t necessarily agree with him, but I believe he has a right to his opinions. Name-calling isn’t going to do your cause any favours.

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    Mute Liam
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:08 PM

    Every gay or bisexual person that I know are good people, there is no argument to made against two people who love each other getting married. The most well used arguments are:

    marriage is between a man and a woman and should remain so as it is “tradition”, while in fact marriage was between one man and many women.

    another is the idea that preventing marriage equality protects children, yet there are mamy couples that are gay, have children and there is no problem.

    And the last and most idiotic of statements is that it is bad for society and that argument is so stupid it doesn’t need to be addressed.

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    Mute John Everyman
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:41 PM

    So why is your head stuck up yours?

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:12 PM

    I’m not the one
    expecting the (doesn’t take it up the) whole country to change just to suit me

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    Mute John Everyman
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:17 PM

    No you’re the one arguing that hundreds of thousands of Irish citizens should be denied marriage rights.

    I hardly think that’s a more laudable position.

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:20 PM

    @ John Everyman

    men fit into women

    we reproduce

    is that a laudable position ?

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    Mute John Everyman
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:22 PM

    And how exactly will Same Sex Marriage end human reproduction?

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    Mute Hanneke Vermolen
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:53 PM

    Please do not speak for all straight people, you homophobic discriminatory excuse for a man. Plenty of straight people support gay equal rights.

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 6th 2013, 12:29 AM

    do you even know the meaning of REPRODUCTION

    do you know how it works ?

    when people.. 2 people make a baby ?

    one man and one woman

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    Mute Hanneke Vermolen
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:15 PM

    I’m listening to Matt Cooper now with their representative from Iona. Wanting to throw the radio out the window, the whole Iona ideal makes me so angry. It’s the old “will somebody please think of the children” line. Somehow SSM will diminish the role of mother & father. It denies the special value of having a mother & father. Such backward thinking seeing as it had been pointed out that there are plenty of single parents. He has just been asked whether couples who can’t/don’t have children and amazingly enough those marriages once between a man & woman are fine but that once again marriage is about the special role for a father & mother. He is tying himself up in a not. Arggggghhhhhh just wake up to the year 2013 already. Love is love, 2 gay parents, once they offer a loving, caring & a stable relationship, can offer just as much as a straight couple. He’s having a dig at straight couples who chose not to get married now

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    Mute Conor
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:47 PM

    The Iona Institute is full of people who never got the shift at a Junior Cert disco and have vowed to spend the rest of their lives punishing those who did!

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    Mute Marc Euclio O'Connell
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    Nov 5th 2013, 7:13 PM

    @Conor, i think that that may be the greatest line in any Irish political debate since 1921.

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    Mute Thomas Maher
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    Nov 5th 2013, 7:22 PM

    You got to love IONA. Wish i count the amount of people they have converted to pro ssm. Because of their hate speak. They have no clue that we as a country for the most part left. YES FATHER/ NO FATHER,and dancing at the crossroads behind when we woke up and got an education.

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    Mute Memphis Belle
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    Nov 5th 2013, 8:35 PM

    Hanneke

    Most people think the idea of a child with 2 dads or 2 mams bizarre and ridiculous. This is the reason SSM will fail to happen.

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    Mute Colin C
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    Nov 5th 2013, 9:04 PM

    Fortunately we have fewer rednecks here in Ireland.

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    Mute Hanneke Vermolen
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    Nov 5th 2013, 9:06 PM

    Which “most people” are you referring to Memphis. Gay people already are allowed to adopt so there are already children with 2 mammies or 2 daddies so this referendum won’t change that, it will give children already adopted & future adopted children better legal standing so it’s a bit of a moot point to say that the reason SSM won’t happen is because people don’t agree with children in same sex parent homes when that already exists. Saying no to SSM won’t change that

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 5th 2013, 10:08 PM

    @ Memphis Belle

    did you ever see 2 male celebriites on the red carpet boasting that they are ”expecting”

    stomach turning

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    Mute Kelly Davis-Jordan
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    Nov 6th 2013, 3:31 AM

    Irrational hatred is stomach turning

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    Mute Henry Kal-El Cavill
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    Nov 6th 2013, 7:16 PM

    YOUR PROFILE PIC IS STOMACH TURNING

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    Mute Hanneke Vermolen
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    Nov 6th 2013, 7:38 PM

    Whose profile pic are you insulting Karl. If you want to insult someone at least make it clear who you are insulting.

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    Mute John Johnson Kcco
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:16 PM

    As we are all going to the polls when it happens to vote on a few things yeah?

    Can I suggest that as I will predict a high turn out for this vote alone, can we throw in a vote to make cannabis legal?

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    Mute John Johnson Kcco
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:17 PM

    Sorry I mean I high turn out for the same sex marriage vote.

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    Mute Ryan Ash
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:19 PM

    There is no constitutional ban on cannabis, so I’d think it unlikely.

    But if you want it considered by the Constitutional Convention, then you should head over to their website or go to one of their regional meetings.

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    Mute Colin Murray
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:27 PM

    How about ripping up the completely out of date constitution and replacing it with something that better fits modern irish society? One that treats all citizens equally would be a fine place to start.

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    Mute Geert Wilders
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:57 PM

    Way to respect an honor those who fought and died for that constitution, you’ve obviously got a keen appreciation of history.

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    Mute Ryan Ash
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:09 PM

    @ Geert: Maybe you should look at your own grasp of history before attacking others. Who exactly fought and died for the 1937 Constitution?

    You do have a keen appreciation of histrionics though.

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    Mute Colin C
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:16 PM

    The constitution was written 16 years after the War of Independence. Hold your fire.

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    Mute Graham Kavanagh
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:23 PM

    I think you will find that it was written not by those who fought and died for it, but by those who survived.

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    Mute Geert Wilders
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:33 PM

    and nobody fought and died to get to the point of us being allowed to have our own constitution?

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:40 PM

    Actually, Geert, statistically, 10% of them were gay and may have wanted a government which didn’t, say, consider it a crime for them to make love to the person they wanted to?

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    Mute Kate Brennan Harding
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:57 PM

    Respecting the constitution is one thing but living constricted by the past is not an option for future generations!

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    Mute dav O
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:15 PM

    2016 at the GPO. Easter Rising 2 – Rise of the Lads

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    Mute Graham Kavanagh
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:44 PM

    Our own constitution? Aside from the odd referendum that comes my way, I’ve about as much input into the constitution as I have had into the lyrics of Rule Britannia. Bit ironic, don’t you think?

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    Mute Save Ireland
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:14 PM

    To you its out of date because it doesn’t conform to your principles , but to a large proportion of Irish Society its Sacrosanct .

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    Mute Save Ireland
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:28 PM

    Kate .

    who are you to decide the destiny of future generations .

    who are you to decide whats good for future generations .

    Look at what no Gun Control Laws has done to the Americans , do you think the parents of school children who have been the victims of Gun violence or any other parents of the 35 000 americans killed annually from firearms are thankfull to past generations for doing nothing about it.

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    Mute Chris Judge
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    Nov 5th 2013, 7:07 PM

    Again, Save Ireland, you are comparing something completely different to the issue at hand. Please think of any arguments that actually relate to SSM and come back. Maybe then I’ll take you seriously.

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 6th 2013, 3:02 AM

    no wonder Harry Boland was jealous !!!!!!!!!!

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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:12 PM

    Put on the long finger to save Gilmore’s blushes. I wonder what reason will they give for not holding it in 2015…

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    Mute Geert Wilders
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:41 PM

    Just another liberal abomination serving to further break down the morale fabric of this society. The rot is setting in people.

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    Mute Chris Judge
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:52 PM

    Please explain how my being able to maryy someone I love is “breaking down the morale fabric of society”?

    Let me know how it will affect you, Geert. Please. I’m honestly interested in how my future happiness is going to negatively affect you.

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    Mute Geert Wilders
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:55 PM

    Marriage is the backbone of society it deserves a special place within our society. It’s primary funtcion is to aid and support the development of the family if we open it up to the gays (who can’t actually create a family) then it cheapens the institution of marriage. How long before we have people calling for them to be allowed to marry family members or more than one person?

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    Mute Ryan Ash
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:57 PM

    I’m not sure if you are a troll or just a fool. The irony is that Geert Wilders is frequently critical of Muslims in the Netherlands for their intolerance towards gays.

    His party even sided with left wing groups in 2011 on a vote about civil servants refusing to officiate at gay weddings.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11443211
    http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2011/11/gay_marriage_vote_hurts_coalit.php

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    Mute Geert Wilders
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:58 PM

    Good thing I’m not actually Geert Wilders so.

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    Mute Brian O'Sullivan
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:04 PM

    Gay couples can’t create a family? We must be imagining all those kids who tell us of their positive experiences being raised by gay and lesbian couples.

    It doesn’t matter if people think children should or shouldn’t be raised by gay couples. The simple fact is that they are, in the hundreds. Anyone objecting to marriage equality is really saying they don’t care about those children.

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    Mute Shane Boyle-Simms
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:07 PM

    the only abomination here is you and actually gays can create a family you fool so your argument that
    the primary function is to aid and support the development of the family rings a bit hollow doesn’t it

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    Mute Colin C
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:19 PM

    I find the denial of the right to marriage to gay couples is something that undermines marriage generally. I don’t want my heterosexual marriage to be something that can be arbitrarily denied to other loving couples.

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    Mute Geert Wilders
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:47 PM

    Gays cannot create a family naturally they can artifically manufacture them but that does not mean it is right nor that it is the best and safest enviornment for children to grow up in.

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    Mute Erin Tormey
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:03 PM

    Oh, I see. So all of those straight couples who can’t conceive or choose not to have children must be ruining society too. We better vote against their right to marry too.
    Are you actually hearing how utterly ridiculous your argument is geert?

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    Mute Save Ireland
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:06 PM

    what about this Gay Man

    Professor Robert Lopez , a Bi-sexual man raised by two lesbians who openly speaks out against Gay Marriage and Adoption.

    take a look – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeNrPJ42Xoo#t=11

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    Mute Kate Brennan Harding
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:08 PM

    wow! Geert, my gay friends who have created families must be a figment of my imagination! Those babies and children must be some mystical creatures that actually don’t exist? Oh wait a minute, they do exist – the only thing that is missing is their HUMAN right to THEIR actual FAMILY.

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    Mute Hanneke Vermolen
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:08 PM

    Gay people can create children Geert. There is no reason whatsoever to be against SSM.

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    Mute Kate Brennan Harding
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:12 PM

    That story is different in that he wasn’t actually raised by two lesbians, He was raised by his mother and estranged from his father. He is clearly embittered by his childhood situation.

    This is a video about a Man who was raised by two mums. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMLZO-sObzQ

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    Mute Tom Ó Drisceoil
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:13 PM

    So what if gays can’t conceive naturally? That’s no reason to ban them from having a family. Nobody whether gay or otherwise, can fly naturally, but we allow aeroplanes, helicopters and other such devices. The fact that something isn’t natural doesn’t make it automatically wrong.

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    Mute Shane Boyle-Simms
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:13 PM

    what about these guys???

    Two gay dads two kids – a normal family

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9x_E7Gj2qw

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:14 PM

    man + woman + 9 months = baby

    man + man = nothing

    woman + woman = nothing

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    Mute Shane Boyle-Simms
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:15 PM

    @ save Ireland.. #desperatelyclutchingatstraws

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    Mute Hanneke Vermolen
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:25 PM

    Adoption & surrogacy would be main methods for gay men & IVF with sperm donorship & adoption would be the main method for gay women. & if you are against these methods you better start protesting outside all the clinics that offer these for straight infertile couples.

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    Mute Hanneke Vermolen
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:59 PM

    Why the name change Martin, just curious?

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    Mute Hanneke Vermolen
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:12 PM

    And sometimes man + woman does not = baby.
    What’s your point

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    Mute Michelle Mc Loughney
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:17 PM

    @Geert. For someone who claims not to be a homophone you sure have the tone and language down to a tee.

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    Mute Michelle Mc Loughney
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:17 PM

    *homophobe

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    Mute Michelle Mc Loughney
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:19 PM

    So what. Im adopted and regularly speak out against adoption. Not everyone agrees with their upbringing. Well done though, searching around for an unhappy ‘raised by gays’ child.

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    Mute Michelle Mc Loughney
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:20 PM

    Michael Zod Shannon=homophobic mess.

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:33 PM

    @ Geert Wilders

    i agree 100%

    society = a man and a women who pay tax have children, they send those kids to school, then the kids grow up they get jobs and settle down and have more kids and pay tax etc

    a man can’t get another man pregnant

    a woman can’t get another woman pregnant

    i am sorry but that is biology

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    Mute Shane Boyle-Simms
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:39 PM

    @ Martin Ryan – Gay men born with wombs? where did I say that? oh right I didn’t.. The idea that there are other families that do not fit into what you think a family is is really the issue here Martin. How sad and sheltered your life is…keep looking for your evidence and while your at it let me know if you find any on that god that you keep harping on about and please try and keep this name for awhile – it gets confusing for the non troll’s out there

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    Mute Shane Boyle-Simms
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:43 PM

    wow a lot of anger there Michael zod whatever..must be that thousands of same sex couples have kids…that’s reality..and I’m not even going to comment on your disease bullshit

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    Mute Mary Kavanagh
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:56 PM

    How dare you say that I didn’t grow up in a safe environment! How dare you diss my parents who saved me from a life in Goldenbridge or in an orphanage! The cheek of you!

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    Mute Hanneke Vermolen
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:57 PM

    At Michael, disgraceful comment but just in case you didn’t realise men & women practice anal sex too you know

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    Mute John Everyman
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    Nov 5th 2013, 7:04 PM

    “straight couples don’t take it up the hole”

    Are you that naive?

    Plenty of straight couples engage in anal sex.

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 5th 2013, 7:06 PM

    @ Hanneke Vermolen

    they /you can do whatever they /you like in the privacy of their /your home

    but leave marriage alone

    men marry women and they have kids
    maybe that is natural
    maybe that is homophobic

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 5th 2013, 7:11 PM

    @ Hanneke Vermolen

    if a man and a woman are not able to conceive

    by all means, they shold adopt

    so when the child grows up it will decide for him/herself if he/ she is straight /gay /whatever

    they won’t be encouraged to ”experiment”

    this country already force kids to be catholic

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 5th 2013, 7:13 PM

    should *

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 5th 2013, 7:19 PM

    Michelle Mc Loughney =

    living in a fairytale world where men get other men pregnant

    when she is not too busy pooping razor blades

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 5th 2013, 7:22 PM

    @ John Everyman

    ” plenty of straight couples ”

    do those couples demand the rest of the country change to suit them ?

    NO

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Nov 5th 2013, 7:23 PM

    Actually, yes, plenty of straight couples demanded that anal sex be decriminalised… That’s changing the country’s laws to suit them.

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    Mute Hanneke Vermolen
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    Nov 5th 2013, 7:27 PM

    No maybe about it. You are blatantly homophobic

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 5th 2013, 7:28 PM

    @ Nick Beard

    oh i see
    that is their preference

    you know what ?

    the peadophiles are not treated like the rest of us

    i think we should have a referendum for them too

    it might be my cup of tea or yours

    but they are people too

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    Mute Hanneke Vermolen
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    Nov 5th 2013, 7:29 PM

    This is we will disagree again as I believe no one decides or chooses their sexuality, they are born with it. Whether they are brought up in a family with 1 mammy & 1 daddy, 2 daddies or 2 mammies. Otherwise gay children wouldn’t keep being born to straight couples

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 5th 2013, 7:30 PM

    it might NOT be my cup of tea (or yours )

    but they are people too

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 5th 2013, 7:32 PM

    @ Hanneke Vermolen

    are you hetero / gay ?

    were your parents gay / hetero ?

    (no offence)

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 5th 2013, 7:37 PM

    @ Michelle Mc Loughney

    ”you are adopted and often speak out against adoption”

    if you are gay and you speak out against gay marriage,,

    does that make you a homophobe ?

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Nov 5th 2013, 7:37 PM

    It is beyond stupid to compare sexual activity between two consenting adults and child abuse.

    Raising children with gay parents doesn’t turn them gay – otherwise all children of heterosexual parents would be heterosexual (not so much.)

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    Mute Hanneke Vermolen
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    Nov 5th 2013, 7:38 PM

    Not sure what difference it makes but I am straight & my parents are straight but I have gay friends, their parents are straight too.

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    Mute paul breslin
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    Nov 5th 2013, 7:39 PM

    @Michael Zod Shannon
    You’re an idiot. Get up to speed.

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    Mute martin ryan
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    Nov 5th 2013, 7:49 PM

    Hanneke,I breed british bulldogs,and I love Red Leicester cheese,I actually set this up on twitter quite some time back but it just never changed the name or avatar, anyway you will glad to know I have already started to make up the no to ssm signs to put around my area and beyond,every little helps.

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    Mute Hanneke Vermolen
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    Nov 5th 2013, 8:05 PM

    Delighted to hear it, it is always good to keep idle hands busy. It may turn out to be a futile exercise, it may not but once you are happy in your life choices of hating an entire section of the community so much you would deny them equal rights. Carry on and enjoy yourself

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    Mute Hanneke Vermolen
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    Nov 5th 2013, 8:26 PM

    But 2 men can pay taxes, send their children to school, their children will pay taxes when they get jobs. Straight couples will still get married, straight couples will have children. Just because we award equal rights doesn’t mean everyone in the country will suddenly ” turn” gay and stop having straight marriages and having children in your “traditional” manor. It won’t effect any of the straight people amongst us, except that we might be vote in favour of equal marriage so a loved one in the future the right to get married (cause us straight people do keep having gay children)

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 5th 2013, 10:31 PM

    a sexual preference that was demonised but is now widely accepted

    wait 20 years and peados will be fighting for their ”rights” too

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 5th 2013, 10:43 PM

    @ paul breslin

    Only men and women can reproduce. Get up to speed.

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    Mute Hanneke Vermolen
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    Nov 5th 2013, 10:54 PM

    Straight people get aids too! And thank you for the advice there Michael, however I am in a loving committed relationship for over 10 years now and my partner and I don’t need your advice. Are you a member of the Westboro Baptist Church by any chance cause you spout as much bull as they do. In general I try to remain very calm and do not resort to name calling, the first time I did was a few days ago when someone wished another commentator dead purely because their opinions differed and today has been the second time with you because you are just being a complete di@khead and I have a feeling that you are on here just to get the reactions you are getting so congratulations. You have succeeded.

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 6th 2013, 12:53 AM

    a child with 2 dads (or 2 moms) going to a school
    where every other student has one mother and one father

    isn’t growing up hard enough ?

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    Mute Memphis Belle
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    Nov 6th 2013, 1:11 AM

    Nail on the head Michael. Nail on the head.

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 6th 2013, 1:13 AM

    @ Hanneke Vermolen

    you are in a loving committed relationship for over 10 years now ? — congrats :)

    you try to remain very calm and do not resort to name calling ? — i respect that :)

    i am being a complete di@khead — what would you know about dicks ?

    i have succeeded — thanks Hanneke :)

    it is 1.15 am
    on a tuesday night in ireland
    i am watching a movie ‘HARD RAIN’ (morgan freeman)

    what are your plans for tonight my new friend ?

    10 years with somebody ,,, jeez i wish i had that
    sounds lovely
    you wake up and they are there for you

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 6th 2013, 3:16 AM

    @ Nick Beard

    do you know what else is beyond stupid :)

    2 men ”expecting ”

    everybody forced to change for gay people while they refuse to change for us in return

    and by us
    i mean the big bad homophobes !!!!!!!

    twirling our handlebar moustaches cooking up another diabolical scheme

    moo ha ha haaaa

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    Mute Kelly Davis-Jordan
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    Nov 6th 2013, 4:21 AM

    Michael Zod, there are many straight people who don’t want to or can’t have children, there are many straight people who don’t want to get married, none of these people fit into your ‘man, woman, marriage, baby’ mold, are they not valid members of society?
    The primary reason people marry is because they love each other not because they want to start reproducing, you can do that without being married. Plenty of single, cohabiting and gay people are already raising children, I suppose they’re not doing it the ‘right’ way?

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    Mute Kelly Davis-Jordan
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    Nov 6th 2013, 4:38 AM

    If SSM is legalised nobody else will have to change in any way! It won’t criminalise marriage between straight people, what are you on about? How is anyone being forced to change? How are gay people forcing anyone to change? A referendum will be put before the people and the citizens of the country will vote, how is that forcing anyone? How are gay people ‘refusing to change’ ? By not becoming straight to suit you? Giving equal rights to others does not take your rights away!!

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    Mute Kelly Davis-Jordan
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    Nov 6th 2013, 4:41 AM

    Some of those students might only have one parent and the children of same sex parents wouldn’t suffer or find growing up any harder if the likes of you weren’t so bigoted against their parents. Its attitudes like yours that cause those problems in the first place.

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 6th 2013, 4:54 AM

    the majority of the world think
    a family is one man and one woman who get married then have children

    men can’t get each other pregnant

    women can’t get each other pregnant

    so,, their ”marriage” (precious as it is) is pointless

    sorry Elton John :(

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    Mute Hanneke Vermolen
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    Nov 6th 2013, 7:15 AM

    I was asleep when you sent that message Michael, I work for a living and have a daughter to get ready for school each morning so am asleep long before midnight. I am very happy in my relationship thank you. My partner & I do not see the point in marriage but don’t see why our preference should have any bearing on marriage for anyone else. Love is love. There are children who don’t have a mother & father in the home already. There are even straight single women choosing to have babies through sperm donation without being married or in a relationship, isn’t is crazy, 2013 & people have a better, less discriminatory, hateful, bigoted outlook on life. Well most of us do

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    Mute Batman
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    Nov 6th 2013, 7:25 AM

    Could you please explain the purpose of a fruitless marriage?

    In the Catholic Church, you can apply for an annulment if it turns out that your partner is infertile.

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    Mute Batman
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    Nov 6th 2013, 7:31 AM

    The “state” should focus on keeping criminals off the streets and providing infrastructure for business. They have no business in blessing unions between two/three/whatever-you’re-having-yourself people who are defined by what they do to each other in the bedroom. I want to live in a free society, a low tax economy and a country with no interference from state busybodies working for quangos.

    That shemales can get their mickey chopped off for free and I can’t get penis enhancement without paying for it myself is a travesty.

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    Mute Hanneke Vermolen
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    Nov 6th 2013, 7:39 AM

    “Fruitless” marriage? So you are of the opinion that unless you have children with your husband/wife that a marriage is pointless. So infertile couples that marry for love are pointless, couples who get married after child bearing age are pointless and couples who simple choose to be married but do not want children are pointless?

    Interesting point of view

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    Mute Conor Buggy
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    Nov 6th 2013, 8:19 AM

    Hanneke why are you bothering trying to be rational and intelligent with the likes of the unintelligible and ludicrous posters that do not even deserve to have their fake names mentioned? I do not even bother with them. There are those on the no side that can actually have intelligent discourse without the need for personal insults. Those comments against Kelly and yourself above are disgusting. Those d!ckheads are so brave to sit there and insult ye from behind fake names without a face. Gawd I’d love to see ye debate them in person. Ye would destroy them!

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    Mute Hanneke Vermolen
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    Nov 6th 2013, 5:59 PM

    Thanks Conor, I often don’t read any comments on purpose so I can’t get riled by the trolls but SSM is something I feel strongly about, not sure why as I am not gay, I have no immediate family members that are gay & I only have a few close friends that are gay, but I do. I can’t understand or believe some if the attitudes that are being thrown out by these bigoted people. Some have engaged in a semblance of debate but others like this Michael Zod guy just want to get a reaction and I said to himself earlier, he succeeded. Some people just make my blood boil. There’s another one of them on today’s story re the Bishops. I will try to hold myself back and maybe even put my iPhone away & relax this evening instead but not promising ;)

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    Mute Henry Kal-El Cavill
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    Nov 6th 2013, 7:24 PM

    @ Hanneke Vermolen

    you work for a living — Good

    you have a daughter — Congrats :)

    ye don’t see why your preference should have any bearing on marriage for anyone else ?

    so why are gay people using their preference to change marraiage for EVERYbody else

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    Mute Henry Kal-El Cavill
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    Nov 6th 2013, 7:30 PM

    @ Conor Buggy

    you do not even bother with them ? ?

    then why are you commenting on them so

    those comments from the gay couple
    who adopted on the saturday night show not so long ago were disgusting too

    ”if you wanna know whick one of us takes it up the arse,, it’s him ”

    yeah that was very funny wasn’t it

    then brendan o’connor called them ”role models ”

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    Mute Henry Kal-El Cavill
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    Nov 6th 2013, 7:31 PM

    marriage *

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    Mute Hanneke Vermolen
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    Nov 6th 2013, 7:36 PM

    They are not changing anything for other people Karl. What will SSM change for you or me. Absolutely SFA. Gay people will get married. Straight people will not stop getting married & straight people will not stop having children. The world will keep turning & life will stay the same for all of us except that gay people will get married.

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    Mute Henry Kal-El Cavill
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    Nov 6th 2013, 7:50 PM

    ”mess ”

    have you looked in the mirror ?

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    Mute Loki Cumberbatch
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    Dec 21st 2013, 8:11 AM

    hear hear

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    Mute Kate Brennan Harding
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:03 PM

    It is unfortunate that a referendum is needed to secure equality for citizens in this country, but that is how our constitution works! But it is also great that we have got to this stage of the debate and can see a date where I and all other LGBT people can be equal. I am sure there will be plenty of arguments that muddy the waters but entertaining these arguments will not change anything. Simply the referendum is about marriage equality, nothing to do with the church, nothing to do with who has sex and in what way, nothing to do with polygamy. All it will provide is the same rights as heterosexual couples to choose to make a commitment to someone else. I am looking forward to the campaigns and the debate, only because it will bring Ireland forward in confronting areas where inequality exists.

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:12 PM

    My fiance and I have set the date for 2015 – fingers crossed that we’ll be able to do so knowing that our LGBT friends will have the same right to celebrate their love and commitment as we do.

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:18 PM

    @ Nick Beard

    you don’t need a piece of paper to prove you love somebody (male or female)

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:38 PM

    Then you should propose a referendum to make all marriage illegal – or you could mind your own and let other people have their happiness?

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    Mute Conor Buggy
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    Nov 6th 2013, 8:24 AM

    Nick its obviously a sad individual that has never known love. Better to pity it than try to understand it or offer it advice. It isnt worthy of that level of attention.

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    Mute red leicester
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:17 PM

    Time to get the NO TO SSM posters,billboards,placards,etc etc up on the lamp posts,walls bridges lets send this ssm thing where it belongs back to the dark ages.

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    Mute Chris Judge
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:24 PM

    I don’t remember any historical evidence of SSM existing in the dark ages. I could be wrong – Any sources It would be an interesting read, I’m sure.

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    Mute Shane Boyle-Simms
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:29 PM

    Ah Martin Ryan under an new name and avatar – welcome back troll

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    Mute Breandán O'Broin
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:01 PM

    I’m curious as to why all the no voters (red leicester and Martin Ryan) are so obsessed with what goes on in other peoples lives…are their own lives so boring and empty that they feel the need to share the misery? I personally have been pushing a yes vote for Marriage Equality not through scare mongering or out of context facts but by showing others who I am as a person. Eliminating the ignorance and fear and showing the reality that I, like everyone else, am just a normal person, with normal everyday concerns. We are, like everyone else, your teachers, accountants, social workers, nurses, doctors, hairdressers…just one of millions of other normal people…

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    Mute Graham Kavanagh
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:27 PM

    @Brendan – he just changed his name and photo to continue trolling on this subject. Do you really need to ask if his life is boring and empty in the face of overwhelming evidence?

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    Mute Tom Ó Drisceoil
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:41 PM

    Same-Sex Marriage is from the Dark Ages? Oh man, you’re a master of irony. :)

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    Mute Conor Buggy
    Favourite Conor Buggy
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:27 PM

    Graham how did you find out martin ryan is red leicester?! Was the troll formerly known as martin ryan booted?!

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    Mute Save Ireland
    Favourite Save Ireland
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    Nov 5th 2013, 7:01 PM

    Breandan ,

    You do realise your post has nothing to do with the subject of re-defining marriage , most people who are against the re-definition of Marriage have Gay Friends and neighbours who they get along with quite well and will still get along with wether it gets passed or not .

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    Mute Brian O'Sullivan
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    Nov 5th 2013, 8:32 PM

    Conor, I imagine it was the no to ssm, in caps lock and everything. That’s been Martin’s signature for the last few discussions on this. He probably he goes around introducing himself as “Martin Ryan, NO TO SSM!!” everywhere he goes.

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    Mute Breandán O'Broin
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    Nov 5th 2013, 9:56 PM

    I normally don’t respond to nameless/faceless profiles. If somebody is opposed to Marriage Equality in principle, I’m not going to waste my time with them. No amount of logic or reasoning will convince such people otherwise. However, the majority I’ve met are not opposed in principle, they just have not met or had the opportunity to discuss logically with someone who is gay and understand the implications of such discrimination.

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 5th 2013, 10:36 PM

    only men can get women pregnant full stop

    want to go against nature and stick your cock where the sun don’t shine ?

    go ahead :)

    but keep that sick sh** where it belongs ,,, in a dark room

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    Mute Breandán O'Broin
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    Nov 5th 2013, 11:20 PM

    Wow! Mature and insightful! Thanks for the tip

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 6th 2013, 12:50 AM

    mature and insightful :)

    ” can 2 men reproduce ?
    no, but god knows we keep trying ”

    not my words
    the words of Harvey Milk

    one of your role models i am sure

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    Mute Kelly Davis-Jordan
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    Nov 6th 2013, 4:08 AM

    Michael Zod, so you think straight couples never have anal sex? Also gay couples have children via adoption, IVF, sperm donation etc and why are you obsessed with sex? Gay people fall in love with people of the same sex and sometimes they want to marry that person and have a life with them like anyone else. you seem to have a big problem with gay men in particular, I presume you’re ok with lesbians as long as you can w*nk off thinking about what they do.

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    Mute Kelly Davis-Jordan
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    Nov 6th 2013, 4:12 AM

    There are plenty of married straight couples who can’t or don’t want to reproduce, are their marriages invalid? Saying gay people shouldn’t be allowed to marry because they can’t reproduce with each other is a ridiculous argument, maybe women past menopause shouldn’t be allowed to marry? Completely nonsensical.

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 6th 2013, 4:39 AM

    @ Kelly Davis-Jordan

    well i won’t be fantasizing about you anytime soon

    (no offence)

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    Mute Hanneke Vermolen
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    Nov 6th 2013, 7:05 AM

    How can you add (no offence) to your comment, you realise adding that on to a comment that is obviously offensive doesn’t negate your insult.

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    Mute Kelly Davis-Jordan
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    Nov 6th 2013, 2:29 PM

    Well that’s great, the thought of you fantasising about me makes me feel physically ill!

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    Mute Kelly Davis-Jordan
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    Nov 6th 2013, 2:32 PM

    When you resort to insults you’ve lost the argument.

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    Mute Seán O'Sullivan
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    Nov 5th 2013, 7:07 PM

    People who identify as lgbt have coexisted with heterosexuals since the beginning of time, it was only our trusty lawmakers who subordinated them for so long. There’s no need to wait until 2015 for Ireland to ensure marriage rights for all but at least this referendum is finally on the cards.

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    Mute Oddsox Rocks
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:47 PM

    It’s just amazing how the nation did not suffer from ‘Election Fatigue’ when we voted twice in The Nice and Lisbon Treaty Referenda… the latter which was supported by Fine Gael.

    Many thanks to the Brit’s for bestowing the existing homophobic legislation up on us…

    …Maybe it’s a utopian dream that an Ireland where all her citizens are deemed equal and afforded the same civil rights can really exist?

    Let’s just hope that 2015 will be regarded as a defining year in Irish history as a time when took one step closer to achieving real civilization and equality for all our children.

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    Mute Jonathan Davis
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:20 PM

    Why 2015 and not 2014 or even better this year ?? Enda Kenny you make me sick

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:13 PM

    and if enda was gay
    you would think he was great just to propose it in the first place

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    Mute Jonathan Davis
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    Nov 5th 2013, 11:29 PM

    you’d wanna get yourself a life just cause Im gay i must fancy every man !!! typical closet case comment …

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 6th 2013, 12:39 AM

    @ Jonathan Davis

    david norris wrote a letter seeking clemency for a peado
    and it is brushed under the carpet

    enda kenny is hated no matter what he does
    if he supoports SSM that may damage your cause the country will vote NO just to spite him

    i don’t care if you are gay btw :)

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    Mute Dusty O'Brien
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:17 PM

    I don’t believe it needs a referendum – if you are too prescriptive in the constitution, you run the risk of removing it’s ability to be a living document. Previous cases on this have led to judicial comment that this matter can be resolved by legislation. The constitution does not mention gender.

    I suspect that this is an effort to ensure that fine Gael do not have to risk losing more members if they run with this themselves – they will take no position and leave it to the people as labours baby.

    Problem is, they will still have to legislate for same sex adoption if it’s passed – maybe they’re hoping that they will be gone by the time that becomes a reality?

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    Mute Ryan Ash
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    Nov 5th 2013, 2:24 PM

    There are big differences in legal opinion around it though. Some have argued that it could be done by legislation, while others disagree. The Government are likely acting on the advice of the Attorney General.

    As for FG, Michael Noonan today said he is in favour of same-sex marriage (see RTÉ) while Frances Fitzgerald, Leo Varadkar and Alan Shatter have previously said they also support it too.

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    Mute Brian O'Sullivan
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    Nov 5th 2013, 3:42 PM

    Are we sure they have to legislate for adoption? The Adoption Act doesn’t distinguish on the basis of the gender or sexual orientation of the applicants, it distinguishes between single and married applicants. Even then it doesn’t stop single people from adopting, it just stops an unmarried couple from adopting jointly.

    Once same sex marriage is permitted in law, gay couples will be considered married like any other couple, so
    they can apply for adoption jointly, like any other married couple. Whether their application will be successful is determined by a suitably qualified child care expert on a case by case basis. It won’t be decided by the general public, as much as some would like it to be.

    The current problem is that the ban on same sex marriage completely bars gay couples from applying jointly, something that does no good for any children they adopt. Allowing gay couples to marry grants those children more stability and greater rights and protections.

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    Mute Petr Tarasov
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:43 PM

    Let’s just get this done. I want to see the indignant look on the bigots’ faces when it passes! :)

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    Mute Memphis Belle
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    Nov 5th 2013, 8:44 PM

    Petr.

    It won’t pass. Just because all the gays are here on the journal getting excited means nothing. Too many people are repulsed at the idea of 2 gay men adopting a child for this to go anywhere.

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    Mute Hanneke Vermolen
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    Nov 5th 2013, 9:08 PM

    But gay men are already legally adopting children Memphis so your point is moot. Also please note that there are lots of straight people in favour of legalising SSM

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    Mute Brian O'Sullivan
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    Nov 5th 2013, 8:22 PM

    There are hundreds of children being raised in Ireland right now by same sex couples who can’t marry. Could those opposed to marriage equality because they’re concerned about the children, please answer two questions:

    1) How does not allowing gay couples to marry actually stop gay couples raising children?
    2) What do you propose should happen to the children that are currently being raised by gay couples?

    No spiel about what you think marriage is, etc. Just simple answers to these very simple and pertinent questions.

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    Mute Anne Shanahan
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:19 PM

    Glad to finally see this is in the pipeline but there was no need to wait until 2015 to do it! Wuss factor in government circles. I still think it is totally ludicrous that there has to be a referendum to give people equal rights!

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    Mute James Dunne
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:20 PM

    There’s an interesting debate to be had over the next year it would seem. I think the majority of the Fine Gael party will back the proposal to allow for gay marriage, this has a lot to do with the popularity of Jerry Buttimer within the parliamentary party & the fact that they all probably know somebody who is gay and can humanise the issue. Those who now oppose the proposal are not for the most part bad people, they just need to be educated. Rather than diminishing the institution of marriage allowing gay couples to marry will strengthen it. What better way to preserve this institution than to allow those who so desperately want to marry and cant at the moment to do so?

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    Mute Ryan Ash
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    Nov 5th 2013, 9:23 PM

    @ James: The likes of Michelle Mulherin are frequently criticised on here as being uber-conservatives, but she did say she would be in favour of gay marriage in an interview.

    The only vote on gay marriage in the Dáil will be on the legislation enabling a referendum. I am sure that practically all members of the Dáil will vote yes to that, in the interests of “letting the people have a say”. So where the real battleground could be within FG (and FF too) between the competing wings is the Bill on gay adoption.

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    Mute Paul Lawlor
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:51 PM

    Marriage:Male& Female. Thats it.

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 6th 2013, 12:40 AM

    @ Paul Lawlor

    oh noooooooooooo

    that is homophobic !!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Mute Claiton
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    Nov 5th 2013, 8:09 PM

    Everybody has the right to fall in love with whomever they want and it should not be so difficult to express your love. Love is love, no matter what form it is in

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    Mute Claiton
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    Nov 5th 2013, 8:02 PM

    Vote yes, Viva Ireland…

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    Mute Hanneke Vermolen
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    Nov 5th 2013, 8:58 PM

    http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/kids-reacting-gay-marriage-will-warm-your-heart041113. Kids reactions to gay marriage proposals and a Q&A afterwards.

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    Mute Lee Jones
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:19 PM

    i have no issue with same sex marriage why should they be happy

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    Mute Christine Astrospirit Klein
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:45 PM

    2015? Why so far off? It should have held tomorrow and get out of the way as that should not be an issue anyway, everybody should be able to marry who they love! But also congratulations to Ireland…… we are not so bad as all the moaners always like to believe ;-)

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    Mute David Higgs
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    Nov 5th 2013, 9:14 PM

    Marriage has evolved throughout time. Even in the Old Testament, Abraham, Moses etc had more than 1 wife – God didn’t have too many problems with that. He even said that men should marry their brother’s wife on the death of their brother!
    The thing with gay marriage is that no one is forcing it on anyone, Adam won’t have to marry Steve unless the two of them want to.

    A lot if the arguments to gay marriage are ridiculous – if anyone wants a laugh, watch louis K
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtJ_sDRRVVI

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
    Favourite Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:11 PM

    wait till 2016

    1916 was when we stood up and fought for our country after all

    let’s make it historic

    fight for our people again (all of them)

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    Mute Graham Kavanagh
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:47 PM

    Sorry Michael, you fought in 1916?

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:28 PM

    @ Graham Kavanagh

    we = the irish people including you

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    Mute Colin C
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    Nov 5th 2013, 9:03 PM

    Apparently, they fought for cherishing all the children of the nation equally. Apparently you’d be fighting for inequality.

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    Mute dav O
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    Nov 5th 2013, 4:48 PM

    2015?! Weak. If there was money to be made you can be damn sure the vote would already have happened. The only bright side is that it gives plenty of time for old man time to catch up on the old bigots that would only vote no anyway. And no I’m not saying all old people are bigots but here in Ireland we have a serious elderly problem, they are still in charge. And those old guys and gals are damn set in their ways. You can’t teach an old dog new tricks but you can have it put down. Just saying!

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    Mute Save Ireland
    Favourite Save Ireland
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:34 PM

    Hi dav O

    Your wrong , I’m in my thirties and I oppose Gay Marriage , Most of the people I talk to that are against the Re-definition of Marriage are the younger generation , there are many elderly people too , but I think your deluding yourself davo

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    Mute Joey JoeJoe Shabadoo
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:42 PM

    Well…. 2015 or not, bring it on

    It will pass and another pillar of bigoted Ireland will crumble.

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    Mute Shane Boyle-Simms
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:44 PM

    deluded absolutely deluded fool

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    Mute Save Ireland
    Favourite Save Ireland
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:48 PM

    Is that the official line

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:54 PM

    “The official line?” You do know campaigns haven’t started, right?

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    Mute Hanneke Vermolen
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    Nov 5th 2013, 7:31 PM

    Well I’m in my 30′s and I know not one person in my social group in Dublin or in Kerry that oppose SSM, my parents, in their 60′s agree with it.

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 5th 2013, 11:07 PM

    @ Joey JoeJoe Shabadoo

    bigoted ireland will crumble ?

    the real meaning of marriage will crumble ?

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    Mute Memphis Belle
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    Nov 6th 2013, 2:02 AM

    Hanneke

    I’m in my 40′s. The most common reaction I’ve seen from people regarding SSM is laughter. Myself , I don’t care who or what you marry, but children being brought up by same sex parents is ridiculous and I feel sorry for the children who are being deprived of a normal upbringing.

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    Mute Kelly Davis-Jordan
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    Nov 6th 2013, 3:55 AM

    Save Ireland- Absolute rubbish, I don’t know a single person in their 30s or 40s who opposes SSM, you clearly hang around with bigots like yourself.

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    Mute Kelly Davis-Jordan
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    Nov 6th 2013, 3:59 AM

    You’ll find that children don’t care as long as their parents love them. Not all heterosexual parents are good parents, depends on the people not their sexual orientation.

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 6th 2013, 4:58 AM

    @ Kelly davis-Jordan

    and you are obviously one of the sex and the city girls

    so sexy,, so modern

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    Mute Conor Buggy
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    Nov 6th 2013, 8:22 AM

    Kelly ignore it. It doesnt deserve your intelligence or your consideration. It is a faceless nameless whisper from the 1950s that actually wouldnt dare say what they say in the real world. Let it state its nonsense in the digital realm, it isnt brave enough to step into the real world.

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    Mute Memphis Belle
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    Nov 6th 2013, 8:46 AM

    Kelly
    That’s absolute rubbish. Children will care when they are old enough to realise what they are missing out on and are being ridiculed by their peers. It’s selfish and disgusting.
    When you say not all hetro parents are good parents that issue could apply to same sex “parents” too and gay parenting is certainly not the answer to the issue anyway.

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    Mute Memphis Belle
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    Nov 6th 2013, 8:52 AM

    *hetero*

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    Mute Kelly Davis-Jordan
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    Nov 6th 2013, 2:22 PM

    What will they be missing out on? You are making an awful lot of assumptions there, the children of same sex parents will also have aunts, uncles, grandparents etc so they’re not going to miss out on seeing opposite sex relations. They will only be ridiculed by their peers if their peers are taught to be bigoted. I never said all gay parents are wonderful I was just pointing out that children are better off with parents who love them no matter what their sexual orientation, you are presuming that children are always better off with opposite sex parents which obviously isn’t always the case. Sexual orientation is irrelevant when it comes to good or bad parenting.

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    Mute Kelly Davis-Jordan
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    Nov 6th 2013, 2:24 PM

    Thanks Conor, no point in trying to reason with the close minded I suppose!

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    Mute Andrew Gache
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    Nov 5th 2013, 11:11 PM

    Seriously people…the lot of ya’s..get a life!!

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    Mute Michael Zod Shannon
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    Nov 6th 2013, 1:01 AM

    seriously *

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    Mute Kelly Davis-Jordan
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    Nov 6th 2013, 3:51 AM

    What a hateful comment, just blind, ignorant bigotry.

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    Mute Hanneke Vermolen
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    Nov 6th 2013, 7:21 AM

    You must be part of the Westboro Baptist Church, such vile hatred & openly bigoted comments. You going to start turning up at funerals soon to chant you hate slogans?

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    Mute Eamonn Colfer
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:42 PM

    They are right to delay it until 2015 in order to counter propaganda from the Religious Right. I don’t agree with votes for 16 yr olds though as they are not yet sufficiently mature and should be concentrating on their studies.

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    Mute Nella Maharg
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    Nov 5th 2013, 5:22 PM

    Let’s all of us get married to everyone else.

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    Mute Niall Donnelly
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    Nov 5th 2013, 8:07 PM

    Its not just marriage thats the issue. The bigger issue can be that a single man who has no right to see his child but a married gay couple who adopt have more rights to a child that isnt theirs.

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    Mute Colin C
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    Nov 5th 2013, 9:07 PM

    Two separate issues. Why do people continually look at one injustice, and instead of saying “solve it” they use it as a reason to continue an injustice elsewhere. If two people have adopted a child, that is their child. End of story.

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    Mute Ross Merriman
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    Nov 5th 2013, 6:56 PM

    Time for the implementation of legitimate, meticulously designed & organized online voting, so we can have constant referendums and progress hugely as a state, as well as strengthen our use of democracy.

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    Mute larry lamb
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    Nov 6th 2013, 8:46 AM

    God save us-abortion now this. Novenas on the up!!

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    Mute Nicole Lawlor
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    Dec 24th 2013, 7:31 PM

    Rights are rights, but at least there’s a move on the legislation finally. It may take a while, but as a nation hopefully we’ll see sense and accept that same sex marriage and relationships are now, more than ever, common among us.

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