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New documentary uncovers the Irish links to America's Tipperary Hill

The radio documentary visits the town and meets with people who have Irish ancestry.

IRISH PEOPLE HAVE emigrated all over the world, and made their mark on it in different ways.

In Tipperary Hill in Syracuse in the USA, they have left a pretty unusual mark – an upside-down traffic light (with the green light up top).

800px-Tipperary_Hill_-_greenoverred_Syracuse,_New_York The upside-down traffic light Doug Kerr Doug Kerr

That story and others from the area of Tipperary Hill are to be explored in a new documentary from journalist Tom Hurley, which will be broadcast on Tipp Mid West Radio on Monday 7 November and 14 November at 11.30am.

Conquering Tipperary Hill focuses on three distinct periods of history when the Irish emigrants were pulled towards the US: the revolutionary war from 1875 on, the building of the Erie Canal from 1817 – 1825, and then the Great Famine. It looks at emigration right up to 1925, and the story behind that upside-down traffic light.

Stories of survival

“It goes back to the fact that during the Famine you often hear about Irish emigration to America or England or Australia, but you don’t ever hear about how they got on when they got off the boat, if they survived getting off the ship,” said Hurley of the impetus to make the documentary.

He travelled to Tipperary Hill during the summer while on a trip to the US. “This Tipperary Hill location, it’s not unique by any means. There are thousands of ‘Tipperary Hills’ around the place,” he said, pointing to various areas of the US which have Irish names (like the many Dublins scattered around the country).

CANAL COMEBACK Part of the Erie Canal, which was worked on by Irish emigrants to the US. AP / Press Association Images AP / Press Association Images / Press Association Images

“A lot of people who can trace their ancestry back to different parts of Tipperary, some of them have come back over the years looking for their ancestors and found them here,” said Hurley, who first heard about Tipperary Hill a few years ago.

He discovered that, for example, peopple from Upperchurch in Tipperary who emigrated to the US ended up moving to a town called Pompey, while those from Thurles often ended up in Geddes.

“A lot of people went over well before the Famine,” explained Hurley. “In 1817 they started building a thing called the Erie Canal, a man-made river linking the great lakes to the Atlantic Ocean. Syracuse was in the middle of that hub.”

Erie_Canal_Map_1853 Wikimedia Wikimedia

Irish people were attracted to working on the Erie Canal – but it was tough, back-breaking work, and some men died in the process.

In making the documentary, Hurley spoke to people who can trace their heritage directly back to Ireland, including one whose ancestor is from Kerry.

A green light

As for that upside-down traffic light? “In 1925 they put up a traffic light in Tipperary Hill but the people of Irish descent got angry over it, not because of the traffic light, but because it is normally red on top and they wanted green on the top. It’s the only traffic light in America with the green on the top,” said Hurley, who added that in the 1800s people from Tipperary were known as “the stone throwers”.

Today, Tipperary Hill is a very desirable part of Syracuse to live in – so much so, said Hurley, that some locals claim the boundary has been getting bigger and bigger.

It’s really only about four to five square miles – one guy says there’s parts of Tipperary Hill now that we would never have considered Tipperary Hill. It’s disputed what part extends into it or not.

What also fascinated Hurley was the actual location of Tipperary Hill. “Normally when you hear of people going to America, I always tend to think of New York and Boston, these places not far from the coast. [Tipperary Hill] is 300 miles inland – not only did they have to get off the boats, they had to get there [too].” It must have been quite the journey back in the 19th century.

The documentary also shows the scale of emigration from Tipperary during the Famine – one historian estimated that from May 1851 to December 1851, around 12,000 people emigrated from there.

While in Tipperary Hill, Hurley found a gift shop called Cashel House, and a street called Morton Street (just like the one in Clonmel). He also found graveyards full of Tipperary surnames like Ryan, Gleeson and Corbett.

“You know the way people laugh at people who claim Irish ancestry but don’t know any more about it besides that?” asked Hurley.

“A lot of people I met over there knew it – they weren’t bluffing, they had records, they had incredible knowledge. There is a sense of pride in the neighbourhood.”

Conquering Tipperary Hill will be broadcast on Tipp Mid West Radio on Monday 7 November and 14 November at 11.30am.  The episodes can also be listened to online on www.tippmidwestradio.com

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9 Comments
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    Mute Mark R
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    Sun 7:19 AM

    Last time the country was in trouble the Government took money out of our private pension fund accounts. They have done nothing to return our pension money. If they had taken money out of our bank accounts, there would have been riots. I don’t see what the difference is.

    As the Government was more than happy to take money from private pension accounts, do you think public pension accounts are safer?

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    Mute Paul Hedderman
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    Sun 2:41 PM

    @Mark R: When did the Government take money out of private pension accounts?!?!

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    Mute Mark R
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    Sun 3:47 PM

    @Paul Hedderman: Google: The pension levy in Ireland was a temporary measure introduced in 2011 to address the financial crisis. It was a 0.6% levy on the *market value of pension fund assets*, and it applied to various pension schemes and plans. The levy was in place for four years, from 2011 to 2014, with an additional 0.15% levy in 2014 and 2015. It was discontinued in 2016. 

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    Mute Ronan Meagle
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    Sun 3:49 PM

    @Paul Hedderman: a levy was introduced on private pension funds from 2011 to 2015.

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    Mute Paul Hedderman
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    Sun 5:52 PM

    @Mark R: the pension levy was a temporary reduction in public sector employees’ pay, not a direct tax on their pensions. It was a measure to help address the financial crisis by reducing the cost of public sector pensions during that period!…… Hard to feel sympathy for any public sector worker on an old DB pension where their pension is calculated from the average of their last three years of employment. 50% of it with for a full pension….. A serious burden for the state!

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    Mute Keith Sherry
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    Sun 6:42 PM

    @Paul Hedderman: The pension levy still exists on public pensions and is permanent – so it IS a tax on pensions. The contracts you talk of were done away a long time ago, with several changes since. Last one in 2013 pretty much levelled the public playing field down to standard private pension territory and yet public sector workers still have to pay the levy? None of that is fair on people wanting to join the public sector these days, but that’s why a lot of them vote with their feet and many positions are not filled in health, policing etc. When you talk of a serious state burden, your blinkered and erroneous viewpoint hasn’t taken into account that it could be you or a loved one that depends on a service that just isn’t available.
    And no, I’m not a public sector worker.

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    Mute Paul Hedderman
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    Sun 9:17 PM

    @Keith Sherry: Were talking about when pensions were raided, ya know after the crash. Those gold plated pensions stopped then FOR NEW EMPLOYEES. There are hundreds of thousands still working today that will be entitled to it when they retire. A new hire 22 year old in 2012 would only be 35 now to give you an idea of the lower age limit of someone on the old gold plated pension. Awl Bernard Gloster is walking away from the HSE with €190k per year pension for example….. So yes a serious burden with plenty of people still to enjoy half their final salary on retirement, the cost borne by the state!!!…. New hires since 2013 are on the single scheme. The levy stopped in 2016, employees now make a contribution towards their pension. It’s not a tax, it a contribution!

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    Mute Numinous20111
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    Sun 10:28 PM

    @Paul Hedderman: You need to do some research. You appear to have completely forgotten about the then government’s siphoning from PRIVATE Sector pensions, as well as the use of funds already placed in the emergency pension reserve fund to bail out the banks, etc. I don’t know if you were yourself working at that time, or if you have joined the workforce since. But it is very easy to type a basic question into a search engine and get the information: https://www.irishtimes.com/your-money/2023/10/02/call-for-return-of-24bn-taken-in-crisis-era-pension-levy/

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    Mute Numinous20111
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    Sun 10:30 PM

    @Paul Hedderman: The levy was introduced in 2011 as a charge against private sector pension funds only. It was levied at a rate of 0.6 per cent in 2011, 2012 and 2013, before rising to 0.75 per cent in 2014. It fell to 0.15 per cent in 2015 before disappearing. The measure brought just under €2.4 billion into the exchequer over its lifetime.

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    Mute S Suilleabhain
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    Sun 10:46 PM

    @Mark R: thanks for the reminder, my mother who has for years and years been forced and compliant in listening to non stop me feiner ism because of someone close tried to deny this not that long ago.

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    Mute Keith Sherry
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    Mon 10:16 AM

    @Paul Hedderman: oops! Pay attention at the back there! You have to go back to before April 6th 1995 to find a public sector worker that could automatically retire on 50% of their wages!
    Ask anyone in, e.g HSE since, e.g.2002 if their pension is CALCULATED in the same way as someone employed the year before and you’ll find they aren’t. Likewise in 2006 and other years. The erosion of benefits has been almost continual for a MUCH longer time than you seem to know anything about.
    As I alluded to in the last message, I’m not sure you’ve thought this whole “burden” thing through at all, but maybe start with reality of why education, health, policing etc. can no longer recruit or retain, and not with whatever unworkable image you’ve concocted in your own head.

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    Mute David Clarke
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    Mon 4:36 PM

    @Keith Sherry: he hasnt a clue what hes talking about,dont bothar trying to convince him otherwise

    1
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    Mute reg morrisey
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    Sun 7:27 AM

    How can you get guarantees from people who constantly don’t tell the truth?

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    Mute Mary BINTon
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    Sun 3:33 PM

    @reg morrisey: That’s the question, nail on the head. Jack is “promising” and what are Fianna Fails track record on “promises” ?

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    Mute Mary BINTon
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    Sun 4:15 PM

    @reg morrisey: FFG promised they would abolish USC before the last election and lied about housing completions. Now Jack Chambers is promising €200 billion spend on infrastructure for the next 20 years when he doesn’t even know if his party will be in government after this term let alone the following three and he is guaranteeing all this, could someone wobble his head and show him the mess his party have made of everything.

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    Mute S Suilleabhain
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    Sun 10:50 PM

    @Mary BINTon: FFG can’t stop lying to save their lives, the middle class rewards them for it. Martin was literally in a live piece on rte in 2020 bare faced lying that FG hadn’t been contacted about going straight back into government. A proud fingers up to the Irish people, and even more insulting to the party that actually beat FG in 2020

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    Mute Dan The Man
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    Sun 7:36 AM

    Any cut in the state pension makes the auto enrolment pension pointless. Also, many low paid private sector employees just above that 20k starting point aren’t used to having portions of their wages taken for a pension, this is the area where it’s most needed as this section of workers need the most protection but the majority will more than likely immediately opt out as soon as they see how less off they will be in the present time month to month after payments are taken from them. Not much point telling someone scraping a miserable living on 400 euro a week that we’re giving you less again now for an ever so slightly less miserable retirement in a future they’ll probably be lucky to live to see anyway having such a tough life to begin with.

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    Mute Brian Molloy
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    Sun 12:57 PM

    The way things are going around the planet at the moment, if I was in my 20s or 30s,I would be more worried about being alive at 66 than having a pension

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    Mute Padraic O' Sullivan
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    Sun 10:29 AM

    Get an agency from a public sector that functions, like Finland or Norway to come in and get rid of all the waste spending.
    No consultancy here can do it as they wouldn’t see another public contract again.
    If the waste is applicable across the system like the childrens hospital and bikeshed, we are down billions annually.

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    Mute Lyn rehn
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    Sun 12:25 PM

    @Padraic O’ Sullivan: I totally agree with you.

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    Mute brian o'leary
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    Sun 7:22 AM

    I don’t know how they could lower the contributory pension since its only 10 euro more than the non contributory? You’d then be getting less for the state for working all your life than those who never worked. If anything , it’s the non contributory pension that needs to be lowered so there’s a bigger gap, encouraging people to work and contribute?

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    Mute brian o'leary
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    Sun 8:26 AM

    @brian o’leary: anyone who has ever worked in the UK for a year or more should look into their state pension system. You can buy back missing years for as little as 200 euro a year. You’ll need a minimum of 10 years to qualify for the lowest payment and 35 for the max.

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    Mute thomas molloy
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    Sun 9:12 AM

    @brian o’leary: People who make an effort should be better off than those who dodge participation in the economy. The barter system is an ancient method of exchange where goods and services are traded directly for other goods and services, without the use of money. Examples include a farmer trading crops for a carpenter’s services, or a web designer creating a website in exchange for a graphic designer’s logo. In essence, it’s a “you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours” approach to trade.

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    Mute brian o'leary
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    Sun 9:36 AM

    @thomas molloy: what happens when you’re too old to scratch anyone’s back?

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    Mute Furious George - The Wasp
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    Sun 10:04 AM

    @brian o’leary: I am doing that at the minute. The only reason I am hopeful for my retired life. People under 40 are being railroaded by the gov when it comes to housing, usc, asc and raising the pension age. Our generation will have far inferior quality of life and wealth than our parents. Generation war in Ireland . Older people should be ashamed but hey, who else is there to vote for especially when the 2 biggest parties work together despite campaigning against eachother

    14
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    Mute thomas molloy
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    Sun 10:24 AM

    @brian o’leary: That’s what working to make provision for retirement is about.

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    Mute brian o'leary
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    Sun 11:46 AM

    @thomas molloy: sounds a bit right wing.

    8
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    Mute Athena
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    Sun 12:07 PM

    @brian o’leary: I think that deadline was in April of this year.

    6
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    Mute Kev Kerr
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    Sun 12:27 PM

    @Athena: Yes, you needed to get your application in by end of April. I completed it online the day before, and they contacted me during the week – I need to buy 16 years contributions to get me to the max pension – cost is about £4K and I need to pay most of it by the end of August. I need to run the numbers, but seems like a no brainer at first glance

    12
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    Mute brian o'leary
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    Sun 12:59 PM

    @Athena: you can now only buy back 6 missing years instead of 17 before 5th April this year, you can also buy every year between now and when you reach 67.

    5
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    Mute brian o'leary
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    Sun 1:05 PM

    @Kev Kerr: well played, it’ll cost me and the wife 16k , but still a no brainer, as long as we live to 68:)

    8
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    Mute thomas molloy
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    Sun 1:17 PM

    @brian o’leary: @brian ro’leary: The noblepoor V fools that work is an unfortunate destructive contemporary concept used by populists ideologically outdated politicians.

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    Mute Brian
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    Sun 2:36 PM

    @thomas molloy: How can politicans using supposed
    “contemporary concepts ” be described as ‘” ideologically outdated” ? You post some amount of drivel.

    2
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    Mute thomas molloy
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    Sun 7:54 PM

    @Brian: They are unfortunately trying to apply “The Communist Manifesto (Marx and Engels 1848)” in the much advanced contemporary world 2025.

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    Mute Áine G
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    Sun 8:38 AM

    Wouldn’t go near it. It’s very odd. You can invest with Irish Life for €100 a month with inflation backed up. Chancers.

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    Mute Lyn rehn
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    Sun 12:40 PM

    It’s impossible to live on invalidity pension and with the new hike in property tax how the heck do the government get away with keeping people below the poverty threshold.
    They reckoned people need a min of €350 a
    Week when calculating PUP during Covid so how can they justify €230 invalidity pension and expect people to feed, heating homes and medication that the HSE won’t fund. I know a couple who can’t afford to heat their house in rural area and basically live 1wk out of 4 on just toast and cornflakes. This is reality and a damming industry of government past and present. Mind you if you’re not Irish this will not be for you.

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    Mute jn
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    Sun 7:06 AM

    according to fffg Lowry gang Irish tax payers money is better spend for those from abroad, get suitcase ready your not wanted in Ireland when your finished college , local Irish cost to much !!!

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    Mute brian o'leary
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    Sun 7:24 AM

    @Tarquin Donovan: in fairness the roads can be fairly bad in places.

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    Mute Mickstawowy
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    Sun 8:53 AM

    Did all ready 2 pension reforms in Poland time for third one here. What’s can go wrong

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    Mute hi from heaven
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    Sun 9:16 AM

    Who is looking after the auto enrolment fund. Is it going to be invested like a normal private pension or just sit there and lose money through inflation

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    Mute niall o'dwyer
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    Sun 9:42 PM

    Not so long ago we had the pension reserve fund which had billions in it. The goverments at the time raided it for thete own gain. This money has never been paid back. This fund should have had no access from our ” con artists”. Use the Apple billions to pay us back. 45 years of paying tax prsi usc and other taxes.They the owe the Oaps

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    Mute John Purcell
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    Sun 1:01 PM

    The issue is being addressed by the phasing out of the “yearly average” method of how the state contributory pension is calculated. This is going to be phased out over ten years meaning people will need more years of contributions to get the full state pension. Nobody is talking about this.

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    Mute Athena
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    Sun 7:40 AM

    Wrong. The state pension doesn’t rely on a growing population but a growing number of contributors. It’s not quite the same thing.

    50
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    Mute RIP
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    Sun 11:38 AM

    Ireland young people need to get off social media and get active

    47
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    Mute brian o'leary
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    Sun 7:33 AM

    There’s a big problem coming down the line, a large section of people reaching retirement who didn’t buy a property or invest in a private pension, they’ll be showing up at the states door now they can’t afford the rent. With auto enrollment they’ll now be able to keep paying the rent and not be a burden on the government?

    40
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    Mute Thesaltyurchin
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    Sun 10:21 AM

    imagine you could be on the dole forever and be far better off than working. insane.

    59
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    Mute Athena
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    Sun 12:13 PM

    @Thesaltyurchin: True, a non contributory pensioner receives more than a contributor with 30 years. It’s insane.

    22
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    Mute Niall Whelan
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    Sun 9:52 AM

    Benefits far too soft in this country. Work = Reward. Lazy & Dole = nothing. Simple.

    47
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    Mute hi from heaven
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    Sun 9:05 AM

    Doesn’t matter what the government promise or sinn fein, in 40 years time it will depend on the economy, also we might all be speaking Russian or Chinese by then

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    Mute P. J.
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    Sun 10:56 AM

    @hi from heaven:
    You started off making sense…….

    10
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    Mute S Suilleabhain
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    Sun 10:55 PM

    @P. J.: statistically the Chinese will be the biggest ethnic grouping in Ireland in 2050
    - DCU professor researched and put this forward many moons ago.

    31
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    Mute Daniel Sullivan
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    Mon 12:08 PM

    The Triple Lock in the UK has been a disaster for the public finances. Offering guarantees to future generations especially when we’re looking at fewer and fewer taxpayers to fund public services is reckless.

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