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INDEPENDENTS 4 CHANGE TD Joan Collins has said “it will be a real exposé” of Fianna Fáil if it does not support a bill to hold a referendum to ensure that water services remain in public ownership.
The bill tabled by Collins proposes a referendum to amend article 28 of the Constitution as follows:
The government shall be collectively responsible for the protection, management and maintenance of the public water system. The government shall ensure in the public interest that this resource remains in public ownership and management.
It is supported by 39 TDs so far, including Sinn Féin, AAA/PBP and independents, as well as the Right2Water campaign and affiliated trade unions.
Independent Alliance TD and Minister of State for Disabilities Finian McGrath said earlier this year that a referendum on public ownership of water is required to rule out any move towards privatisation.
Public ownership
Collins is now urging Fianna Fáil to back the bill, making the point that the question of who should own Ireland’s water falls outside the terms of reference for the expert commission, which featured in the Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil confidence and supply agreement.
The issue of public ownership was supported by Fianna Fáil during the recent election, she added.
Speaking to TheJournal.ie, she said, “if Fianna Fáil don’t support it, it certainly will be a huge retrograde step from their point of view… there is no reason why they shouldn’t support it”.
Fianna Fáil’s housing spokesperson, Barry Cowen told TheJournal.ie that his party are “not adverse” to the proposal.
He said party members plan to look at the bill in more detail with a view to discussing it further at their parliamentary party meeting on Tuesday.
“We can see the merit in it and understand the sentiment of it,” he added.
Safeguarding Ireland’s water
He said legal opinions will have to be consulted as to whether it is a runner, but said stronger legislation might be the way forward in relation to safeguarding the public ownership of Ireland’s water supply.
Cowen said the bill does not impact on the confidence and supply agreement as it commits to strengthening public ownership.
Collins said ensuring that public ownership of the water infrastructure is engrained in the Constitution will reassure the public.
“They [the public] don’t trust this government,” she added.
Collins explained that there are two aspects in the water charges movement – the issue of payment and the issue of ownership.
“To get this in the Constitution will close this down… water is the new gold, we have to protect it,” said the Dublin South Central TD.
Unlike other motions tabled in relation to water services, this bill could have an impact, she explained.
“This bill can make a difference if passed… It will pass if Fianna Fáil back it,” she said.
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FF may try to weasel their way out of if by trying the legislative route. But, legislation can be changed overnight by a majority govt. Make no mistake, ownership of water needs to be in the constitution and it needs to be concise, clear wording, that is not open to interpretation.
@king tut, you are absolutely right about the wording and it also needs to be in the ownership of the people of Ireland as a human right guaranteed by the constitution, rather than in the ownership of the state, guaranteed by the constitution! Which could be ultimately be corrupted to be administered as any government saw fit, including some underhand subbing out of administration to a third party private entity such as Irish water, and then proceeding to carry out their plan to date, but with a constitution guarantee in place of their right to do so!
@David Van-Standen: The Government is elected by the people of Ireland. How would you define “ownership of the people of Ireland as a human right”. Who is in control of the utility?
@Do the Bort man: The government may be elected by the people of Ireland. But no Irish government has ever served the interests of the majority who vote for them. They serve the interests of big capital and have done so since the foundation of the state. We have a facade of democracy only.
@Billy Mooney: ok billy, without copying and pasting, how would you improve our “facade of democracy” in Ireland? Whats actual ideas to AAA/PBP have, that are not derived from communism?
It’s very simple Bort. We need a real democracy where the focus of the economy and productive activity is geared to meeting human need rather than with the objective of profit accumulation for private capital owners.
Now what do you propose to fix the current rotten system where the 62 richest individuals on the planet now hold the same wealth as 3500 million people, the poorest half of the globe’s population many of whom starve to death or survive in abject poverty?
@Billy Mooney: can you define what you mean by “real democracy”? Every single person sitting in Leinster house, and Michael D Higgins were elected by the people of the country. Do you have an issue with it, because lots of TDs you personally don’t like were elected? What part of the democratic process do you actually wish to change?
The question you have asked me to answer is very different. Global Politics and corruption go hand in hand. Just look at the US election tomorrow, one of the candidates has no political experience, yet he is able to run for the most important job in global politics. Why? because of money. Take a country like the United States, thats a country without real democracy. Do you think the likes of Joan Collins, Bridge Smith, Mick Wallace, Claire Daily, Paul Murphy, Gino Kenny, Richard Boyd Barrett would stand a snowballs chance of getting elected to congress in the states? No. Why? Because they would not get the financial backing, usually from big business, to fund their campaigns. Yet, they can run and get elected here in Ireland, a country apparently without real democracy? I’m not a fan of those TDs, but I do respect the process that elected them. If you want to stop the rich getting richer, then remove all financial backing from all business to all forms of politics. Remove the money, and you remove the corruption. Very simplistic approach, and almost impossible to implement, hence we’re in the situation we’re in.
By writing exactly that into the constitution of Ireland. Am not a constitutional lawyer, but something along the lines of: “All rights to water within the 26 counties of Ireland from this day forth now and in perpetuity are conveyed into the ownership of the people of Ireland. Water and access to water for household use, is defined as a basic human right. Delivery and provision of water and sewage services shall be carried out by local authorities, under the administration of the Department of the Environment, funding for household water and sewage provision shall be raised through general taxation only, no further charges shall be applied. Where local authorities cannot provide these services directly, for example in rural locations, then funding for existing and new water scheme development will also come from general taxation. Exceptions to this provision of household water and sewage services shall include any non household consumers, for example but not limited to, industrial and business usage, these services shall be metered and charged for at cost set by the Minister of the Environment, these charges shall not exceed the cost of provision of the services”
Water must remain in public ownership and kept out of the hands of parasite business men’s hands regardless of what party backs it or not! !
What happens to privately-owned wells and group water schemes? Do they all have to be transferred to public ownership with their attendant costs? Also, people want ownership of our water put into the constitution because “water is a human right” – does the same apply to sewage treatment? Do we really want to have the word “sewage” in our constitution?
We know FF will say whatever suits the people, then do the opposite.
IW was en route to the greed sector via Kenny & Co. It was the protest that stalled it and it is only stalled, as for FF they would, and intend to sell out.
Water will he the new oil in future generations. FG must not be allowed to privatise it. The debacle of the billing system has shown their ability to waste money. FF kniw the return to power is via H2O.
@lavbeer: like electricity and the postal system. Ireland has been fleeced since private operators were permitted to operate here, right?
Hardly …competition has driven electricity prices downwards ,same for airlines …not all privatisation is bad !!
Ireland has the 2nd highest electricity prices in the EU, lots of companies supplying but don’t fool yourself into thinking they are actually competing.
Hmm. If “water will be the new oil” and we currently get by without any mention of oil in our constitution, then why do we need to include water in the constitution?
@Philip. Agreed not all privatisation is bad. The difference there Philip is we can all survive very happily if not as comfortably without Electricity or airlines. I would like to meet and have a chat with someone who has had no water for more that 3 days. It would probably be a one side conversation.
Politicians are afraid of the constitution. It is the only way we have of controlling them for the better good. Enda offered a plebiscite but that is worthless. Denito as we don’t have any oil why would we do that? Future generations of Irish people could benefit from water the way Norwegians have with oil. IW should never have been granted ownership. Do you trust Irish politicians?
Check the electricity costs across Europe Brinster and see where we lie. Silver medal position last time I checked.
And no mention of Nitrogen or Oxygen, either. Yet we’re all dead without them. Then, of course, there’s Gravity.
And then came the childish remark.
Tell him to walk to his nearest river or knock on his neighbors door !
What about the 99 cents flights ?
Yes what we really need to do is waste another couple of hundred million on this issue. Don’t forget to engage consultants to do a feasibility study first. Or perhaps set up a task force?
My issue has never been not willing to pay for water. My issue is that the charge was doing nothing except covering the cost of processing bills. This excuse of those that don’t pay want everything for free is lame. I’ve paid my way all my life and will continue to do so, but I know the value of money and it won’t be wasted on a company like Irish Water.
You’re dead right. The charges should have been up around €500 to €600 annually so that IW would have enough funding to properly upgrade the infrastructure.
Thats it Trevor. The cost oer household for the billing system is not known. 400 to 500 I reckon. Happy to pay towards water infrastructure not a billing system.
Irish water were stuck between a rock and a hard place when it came to billing. If everyone was issued a flat charge, they would saved millions by not fitting meters, but there would have been no incentive to actually conserve water. I think the original plan was for bills to be around 400-600, but all the protests resulted in one of the cheapest water bills in europe, that didn’t cover the costs of meter installation. Its a total mess now.
Fianna Fáil flip flop flippety flop…
Fianna failures were instrumental in the creation of the monster that is Irish water, so don’t hold out much hope for them to do the right thing and stop the double charging.
They’re to be found at the centre of all things iFFy
Times a closing to reintroduce bankers tax .
Some more medicine to help it over the line ….
Doubt it will be accepted again.
Enshrined in constitution should certainly happen . How FF will side step this will be good ☺
Irexit, back to proper democracy, at any price worth it.
Where does the risible rump of the ‘Labour Party’ stand on this? They strongly opposed it while in government.
If you don’t want to pay for it, install your own pipework and well and get your own
Can I do yhe same with Anglo given I never was a customer? Sheep like you with low standards like you are part of the problem.
Bahhhh, sheep aye, living in England I pay my way, when I lived in Ireland I did, farmers have always paid for water, just noble “people” like you who thinks ” it comes from the sky for free, it will get to my house for free…
Nothing to do with you. Makes your childish comment even worse.
I probably paid more tax when living in Ireland than you did hippee
Another childish remark. Go to work and read the last annual.report of your water utility.
@David Dolan:
“install your own pipework and well and get your own”.
A person I know had a neighbour who had a disused well in the back garden. It had been closed-up by the builder when the housing estate had been built. When Irish Water was formed, a planning request was submitted to the council to reopen the well. IT WAS REFUSED. Vested interests don’t like competition.
FF originally wanted to charge 500 annually for our own water
So Collins is looking to put this on the constitution ? But every water protest was claiming water was in the constitution? Is cigarette smoking and 6 cans for a fiver in the constitution too ?
The childish rebuke. No one can cost justify IW. We are going around in circles. Don’t get dizzy.
@lavbeer: Equally, nobody can justify the chronic underinvestment in our water infrastructure which is a direct result of the political choices that we have made over the years.
Putting water in the constitution will not end boil notices or get rid of the leaking lead pipes and nor will a return to the good old days when water services were (under)funded from general taxation.
In fact Denito money was made available but wasnt used as intended. New multi million coco buildings etc appeared instead. No putting it in the constitution won’t stop boil notices but it will stop it being sold. Putting in unused metres at huge expense won’t stop boil notices either btw.
Public ownership should be enshrined in the constitution. But people must be prepared to pay for it…
Alpt of people prepared to pay a flat charge but not for the army of people and infrastructure to run the billing system. No point in knowing the neighbour uses a tenner more than me if it costs both of us 50 a month to find out. It doesn’t help conservationas the UK has shown. IW couod be massively slimmed down tomorrow
O’Reilly. People already pay for it you gobsh!te.
Twice if you have a well …
But do you own the water from the well?
Anti water charges contributors on this site are so abusive that they’d nearly make you want to pay so that you wouldn’t be in the same category as them.
You expect FF the lying shyte party to do the right thing?
Referendum on “citizen ownership” of providing affordable homes for Irish Families both private and public needed.
https://www.change.org/p/referendum-on-right2home-in-ireland
Coal is a natural substance. It should be supplied free of charge.
@Paddy Lions: How many times must it be said WE ALREADY PAY. What we wont pay for is a quango that enriches all those who want the ordinary man/woman in the street to pay for the up keep of the life styles their accustomed to.
@Derek Poutch: How come people all over the country are paying for their water. Are they paying twice?
@Derek Poutch: how many times must it be said WE DON’T PAY ENOUGH. Hence why we have a water network like we have, boil water notices and dumping raw sewage into lakes and the sea.
@Do the Bort man: Oh we have paid enough alright but its not our fault a corrupt govt has squandered it. Really bort man will you open your eyes once and for all and see all the corruption, cronyism and mis-management that has taken place over the last 10 + years.But the biggest thing that gets me is the lies, blatant lies just to get elected. Yet there will be people like you, Paddy and others who will come on here and defend ff/fg and probably vote for them again come next ge. I for one have never voted for these party,s and never will and at last lots of Irish people are finally kopping on.
Referendums in this country are a matter of ‘sink or swim’, they mean nothing to most people…..
“The government shall be collectively responsible for the protection, management and maintenance of the public water system.”
Correct me if I am wrong, but is the wording of this bill proposing that Irish Water (or what ever state body in control of water in the future) will have a monopoly forever, and it stops any possible additional private supplier from ever entering the market? I’d have the state in control of the infrastructure (learn from the mistakes of the sale of eircom), and have the state provide a supplier that can never be privatised. But, also leave the door open to any additional suppliers to enter the market in the coming years. How many people have changed their electricity suppliers to get a better price? Why should people never have the option to do that in the future with their water?
@Do the Bort man: wow, so apparently competition in the market is a bad thing.
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