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TALKS BETWEEN THE the ASTI and the Department of Education have ended today without agreement meaning hundreds of schools will remain closed tomorrow after the mid-term.
The schools could remain closed for an indefinite period as teachers stop performing supervisory or substitution duties.
School boards of management will take individual decisions about whether schools are forced to close because of “health and safety issues”.
The Department of Education says it has been told that about 400 schools will be closed tomorrow, affecting approximately 200,000 students.
The decision by teachers to stop performing the supervisory or substitution duties comes after payments made to them for the duties was ended. Teachers had therefore been performing the supervisory or substitution in September and October without payment.
The Department of Education says it stopped payment for these duties when teachers stopped working so-called ‘Croke Park hours’.
Croke Park hours are additional working hours that were brought in by the Croke Park and subsequently Haddington Road agreement.
ASTI teachers voted earlier this year to stop working the hours 33 Croke Park hours.
Education Minister Richard Bruton has said that he is “very disappointed” that schools will be closed tomorrow.
“This will cause huge disruption for 200,000 students and their parents, with particular stress caused for those in exam years,” he said.
ASTI have effectively decided to close hundreds of schools indefinitely, as a result of a dispute which essentially relates to one hour a week of additional duties.
ASTI members voted not to sign up to the Lansdowne Road Agreement but the department is pushing the teachers to revisit their decision.
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They are dead right, they are paid to teach, not be unpaid babysitters. They deserve a fair wage for all the hard work unpaid hours that they already put in. I speak as a parent of a teenager. Why on earth should they do unpaid supervision. More people should support the teachers and not buy in to the crap that the media and government are spouting
Well said
@Claire O’Kelly: teachers do have a fair wage – by any standard. And no one is asking teachers to be unpaid babysitters – supervision is surely an integral part of being a teacher.
@EvieXVI: Why should unpaid supervision be an integral part of being a teacher? They are paid to teach their subject. Supervision is unpaid, so why should they do it? Plus newly qualified teachers are NOT paid a fair wage, which is what they are striking for on Tuesday
Of course supervision is an integral part of being a teacher. To suggest otherwise is nonsense. To demand to be paid for it seperately is also nonsense. It should be a core part of their duties and their salary should include it. What next…payment for having to clean the blackboard after a class? Most private sector employees I think are looking at this with disgust.
@Reg: But their salary doesn’t include it, and they have to PAY to opt out. And its obviously many a year since you have been near a classroom, I haven’t seen a black board in my childs class ever. Plus private sector can renegotiate their contracts, receive bonuses etc, do teachers get performance bonuses? No, they just do not get the thanks that they deserve from either the government or many parents. Would you do the job that they do? I certainly wouldn’t and for that reason I have the utmost respect for them and the hours of dedication they put in
I have no problem with teachers being well paid and in the main they are with an excellent pension and holidays. New teachers pay needs to be adressed but demanding money for what should be a core part of the job is a joke.
@Reg: tui and into members are paid for it, only asti members are not as the Govt wants to punish them for fighting for equal pay for new recruits. Do at least try to get the facts right before spoofing off reg
Reg, S and S emphatically is not an “integral” part of teacher”s duties. In a 42 year career I did no supervision for 30 years until I was paid for it from 2002. I did do voluntary substition but could have chosen not to as some of my colleagues did. It is not a part of the teacher role in many countries which I assume you know.
My kids are the most precious things I have. To hand them over to their teacher every school day is a huge leap of trust in my book. They are educating and helping to raise my kids. After doctors and nurses they are the most important profession out there and deserve to be treated accordingly. They’re responsible for the next generation, you can’t put a price on that.
Then sign up to LTR like TUI did…..i hope teachers are forced to come to school and do nothing all day or get a days pay cut.
So why should the rest of us taxpayers let them write their own cheque just because they are teaching(and getting paid for it) your children?
You let the bankers write their own cheque to bail out their delinquent and corrupt banks and got precisely nothing in return.
@Shane Molloy: well a price has to be put on it, the price should be what the asti voted for
So well said!….our “babies”…are teens now!…they are our everthing!…..reason for breathing!…teachers deserve proper wages!
They have good wages. They just want what they got in the boom times. As for refusing to do unpaid work? They never mention the money they receive when they are holiday for half the year. They go on like teaching is one of the most treacherous professions going. I.e. “You stand up in a class of thirty children”. They start at 9 and are out for 4 and get a good load of breaks in between. They are off every weekend, every bank holiday, Christmas, Easter, Halloween and then three months in the summer. Cushy doesn’t come close to describing their job.
We should just add 5% on to the standard and higher rates of income tax and use all the extra money to restore teachers’, nurses’, doctors’ and Gardaí pay to pre-crisis levels.
@ Paul. All teachers will be in school as theu are available to teach. Unfortunately for the contracted teachers, they don’t get a days pay tomorrow whether they personally agree with the issues or not. Not all schools are closed , TUI schools and primary (INTO) are open for business as usual as in doing supervision and substitution and not striking. Many members of the public are painting all teachers with the one brush . This issue is confined to ASTI (religiously affiliated secondary schools, private secondary schools, some community and comprehensive schools but not all ) vocational schools and Gaelscoilleana are not involved at the moment. I am glad that you are aware of it but not everyone is.
…so why did you not become a teacher then?
Need some facts checked their Ronan. There was never an allowance for croke park hours. Tomorrow is a totally separate issue. Nothing to do with croke park hours. Scandalous to say it is.
There / their misuse tut tut teacher
Conan , very true .No allowances for Croke park hours . I also think it’s very unfair that SNA’s have to fo those free hours too .
I’m a teacher… I’d like 6 months holidays twice a year
Extra homework for me MTD..you’re dead right..
Ar least they get paid for holiday pay unlike school bus escorts who get a Euro per hour they work extra.
Just to be clear it’s the govt. closing schools not the ASTI. All teachers are available to work tomorrow. Teachers are just not doing S&S because the govt refuses to pay for it.
@Michael Berigan: That’s a ridiculous statement. The government are willing to pay for S&S if the ASTI sign iontophoresis LRA. The ASTI are refusing. Schools cannot open and run unless children are supervised. So it is the ASTI who are causing school closures.
Evie, you fail to understand that the government withdrew promised remuneration from a previous agreement to punish ASTI for their stance on equal pay for new teachers. Utterly scandalous negotiating by Mr Bruton. Hundreds of schools closed tomorrow because of his stance. Would be a resigning matter in other countries.
@Valthebear: I don’t fail to realise anything. The ASTI won’t sign up to the LRA – which would give better pay to new teachers and S&S payment. All over less than an hour a week. I know you might think you have public support but there are a huge number of us who belive the minister is right- and the ASTI’S continued refusal to do what 23 other public sector unions did will just see more and more turn against the ASTI
Evie..so you believe the minister can unilaterally renege on the terms of a previously agreed agreement to give him leverage in a different dispute?
The Landsdowne Road Agreement is an extension of the HRA..one that most have agreed because the country can’t afford not to.
Board of Management are locking teachers out. Teachers will be in their classrooms ready to teach.
Essentially the government of the billionaire class are now planning to steal a day’s wages from the ASTI teachers. Still it’s small beans to the €100 + billion they’ve stolen from us to pay off the gambling debts of the bankers.
The kids may be losing a day at school but many thousands of people are receiving a valuable education on the nature of the state we live in and whose interest it serves. Solidarity with the teachers.
Have you ever heard of personal responsibility Wally?
You mean like the bankers took responsibility for bankrupting the banks and the economy? ,Or the way Apple takes responsibility for paying it’s taxes? Capital cares nothing for responsibility only for profit.
Mark, Boards have no option but to close where there is inadequate supervision and substitution and using the term lockout is akin to propaganda. You’re blaming the wrong people here.
It’s a lockout. The government is demanding that the teachers work for free in order to keep the schools open. The teachers are correctly refusing to do so.
It’s not the Board’s fault Billy. This is the Department of Education’s fault. Saying that Boards are locking teachers out is grossly unhelpful and unfair on the volunteers who serve on the Boards.
Fair enough Thomas. I misinterpreted your comment.
Sorry Thomas why should teachers who opted out of S&S and who paid to opt out now be expected to do the work for nothing. Read up and educate yourself on the issues involved.
Mark, I agree and am well informed on the issues involved. I agree with the teachers’ stance here but believe that the anger and frustration should be directed in the right area, the Department of Education and not at the Boards of Management.
Clearly to the government, Gardai > teachers
@Ted Striker: Teachers work 735 hours a year and guards work 1872 hours for a lower wage…next!
The many many hours we work at home correcting work and preparing classes are not included in these figures!
We have to be ready and organised for all of our classes each day.. that’s impossible to do during teaching hours.
@Laura Healy(Home Ec): And respect to teachers for that. It still doesn’t add up though. You would need to be doing 8-10 of these hours every day of the school year just to match the hours of a guard
@nialls: Be thankful that public servants are not paid an hourly rate or the public would see through the ASTI propaganda straight away
That’s the profession you signed up for. Deal with it or change your profession you don’t hear others complaining about the work have to do in evenings for projects or courses they have to do for their career. That argument is nonsense and it is the default sob story. Reality check work is hard and takes time if you want to succeed.
You’re very good with fact and statistics ….. you could have been either one of those professionals. What a bloke you are
Gardai get paid whilst training for their 4 years probation, teachers don’t @ Ted Striker.
Gardai training is in line with Military training you are on curfew Monday to Friday you do not go home.
Surely you are not comparing the skills Gardai need to enforce the law with all the physical risks required and dangers involved with 4 years of college life come on. I do believe teachers get paid for doing a H.Dip though. Conveniently left out of your statement. Im for equal pay for teachers, but look for it on your own merits not comparing yourself to another profession that is not similar to yours, it degrades your argument.
No teachers do not get paid for doing a h. Dip , you are incorrect. Teachers pay for the hen. Dip out of their own pockets and I am not comparing gardai to anyone I think they do tremendous work .I am only pointing out facts to a person. Facts…
H. Dip rather…
There has never been an allowance for croke park hours. The payment of S&S was suspended under CRA and HRA. Tomorrow is not about croke park hours, but simply about fair and equal pay for teachers who will now find themselves locked out from their place of work. Scandalous media bias once again.
@conan I’ve sent a fact check email and although the article has been edited, it’s still not factually correct. It’s so frustrating to see the media not fully understand the issue. The misreporting of this industrial action is widespread.
@Ciara…the misreporting of this industrial action by ‘our’ media is deliberate and under orders from our so called government!
I’ve emailed factcheck on a number of the ASTI articles and claims in the last few weeks. They’ve been ignored.
Clearly the journal prefer to side with the Gov spin on this one.
I’m locked out of my place of employment tomorrow. I never did s&s and I signed the contract which stated my opt out was irrevocable until retirement and I could never opt in. The Dept have decided I’m part of the collective who voted to withdraw from S&S duties which I never did and had to pay 1769 euro for the pleasure each year. That ‘irrevocable’ contract which I signed is now deemed revocable because the Dept say so. I feel I am being punished for being a member of a union and thereby locked out of my employment just like 1913. The press continuously harp on about students being locked out tomorrow. How about mentioning that not since 1913 has there been a lockout in this country of union members ie. teachers who refuse to sign up to unpaid S&S duties, including those who have been and still are paying 1769 a year to opt out of those duties. I consider it a historic moment.
@Mary…I hear you and so do many others. The deliberate misinformation in the media is not getting through to everyone. Don’t despair – there’s lots of support for you!
Tomorrow’s issue can be so easily solved at no cost to the Dept of Education. Just pay the teachers what has already been set aside for outsiders to do supervision and substitution without prejudice to any other issue. Schools will be open to all immediately. Other issues can be solved in due course. If this doesn’t happen then it is clearly the Minister who is closing the schools for his own political reasons.
Great job Mr Bruton … Your government brought it on themselves , well with a bit of help from FF..
Wonder will the merry go round continue and we put FF back in after they call time on your crowd Richard ?
Why don’t we just give in to all the unions and give all the public sector an increase. Then we will have to increase income tax to pay for it. And when the sh@t hits the fan again with Brexit, a trump led US or some other economic disaster we will all be back to square one. Have we not learned anything ??
It will only cost 2 billion for full pay restoration in public sector government should just pay if and raise taxes for private sector
That would be the fair thing to do
You seem to forget Brian that it was the bailout of the private sector banks which broke the economy in 2008.
@Billy sorry but I always give someone the respect of a reply but not in your case. Your an idio t
You’re kidding nobody Brian. You’re not replying because you have no counter argument.
Need a Reagan like response. Give them 48 hours or face the sack
They could try that of course and then they can watch as the entire education system grinds to a halt. Solidarity with the teachers.
Teacher’s, three months summer holidays full pay, two midterm brakes full pay. Two weeks Christmas holidays. Plus all public holidays. All Full pay. Monday-Friday
It’s 9 moths pay spread over 12 so we can pay our bills!
Not all teachers get paid for holidays, the majority of nqts are on temporary contracts or half hours and dread the holidays as it means signing on to the dole.
Michael. . You need to some research there ..
If you are gonna gripe and complain and moan about teachers holidays, go and become a teacher. And before you ask, no, I am NOT a teacher, I just respect the amazing job that they do which they are so underappreciated for
Maybe I do, but teacher’s do get three months summer holidays, two midterm brakes, all public holidays. Paid. I’m I wrong ??
Yes you are wrong we are paid for teaching time and it’s spread over 12 months. Part time and non permanent teachers get nothing during the holidays. We are NOT paid to sit at home.
Michael, I think most people think you are. Put thanks for informing us all.
What an absolute ignorant comment. You conveniently forget to also mention the work they put in after hours. Curriculum preparation, marking student papers, reading through pages of student work ….. much, much more that you haven’t considered….. and no, I’m not a teacher.
Because I don’t agree with you, I’m complaining and moaning. I’m stating a fact. Wasn’t going to as if your a teacher it’s your business what you work at. I never said they don’t do an fantastic job, well most of them. Going on strike is hurting the children. My children are finished school, just letting you know.
Think you’ll fine lots of working people bring work home with them, depending on the job. Do it unpaid too because they have to work pressure from the boss, again never asked if your a teacher.
But sure aren’t you all made permanent after a few months anyway so you will get the holidays paid
Their pay for working is spread out through the entire year Michael.
@Barry Basstard: Due to Govt decison no teachers have been made permament in years. All on contracts.
@Micheal; School hours are 9-4 but teachers work at night and at home doing homework, corrections and class plans. They also have to have inspectors come in and watch them do their job and inspect their class plans.
In my job my rostered hours are my hours, once I leave work I am finished. I would hate to have to be working at home.
Do you not get paid for your holidays too?
Ah here Derek..less of that crap abour working after hours..there are many more private sector employees that work well beyond the hours they are paid for in their salary…that argument that only teachers seem to work after hours without pay is pure sh*t…pat them to be in the school 9-5 monday to Friday…include teaching S&S and correcting in your 9-5 and oh if you have to work until 5.30…then do whatu most private sector workers do…their job…the sense of entitlement in the public sector is staggering..
Did I say teachers are the only ones who work after hours?? Not once. Yes, other sectors obviously work out of hours but the difference is they get rewarded for it. Mostly. The sense that the likes of you (behind a fake name btw) is quick to comment on how the public sector has such a sense of entitlement is pure horse s**t to be honest. How is it a sense of entitlement for employees to ask for a decent standard wage??
What fake name, my name is up there plus my picture. Don’t see your picture.
@Derek Cullen: What Fake name Derek? My name is there for everyone to see…the public sector is all about entitlement and not about serving the public…I worked in both public and private. The difference is not private sector get rewarded for it, many private sector workers get a salary (ie no overtime) and work until the job is done, not like the public sector 9- its 5 o clock I’m off home with my job for life and great pension. I have no issue with people getting a decent standard wage as long as the work hard and consistently perform, tell me all about the performance related pay system in the public sector (oh wait it doesn’t exist). You can’t just expect pay rises for nothing…ah sure lets restore pay back to the Bertie levels which contributed the the fiscal deficit we now have…what we should have is a total restructure of the public service pay structure to include performance pay and banded to certain regions in the country along with one structure for one profession…in the instance of the teachers I happen to agree to certain aspects, but not others. This country should not be about pay restoration but pay correction. Restoration to the boom times..look where the boom got us.
What you on about, you said I fake name up.
@Nigel Roy: Its always the same argument thrown about; the public sector have jobs for life and great pensions blah blah blah. Remember in the 2000′s before the government f**ked it up? It was pretty unheard of people leaving private sector jobs to transfer to public. Even now, its not uncommon for people to leave the public sector to work in the private sector because the equivalent jobs are much higher paid on average and point of note, the majority of people I know who work in public sector are very hard workers and don’t “clock off at 5″ as you put it. I include social workers, homeless outreach officers and general admin staff who happen to really value their jobs. The teachers of this country do a great job overall and I completely stand with them on this!
Best of luck to the teachers, 100% behind them .
Complete joke. What happens now to those had projects to complete for junior cert. Will this be put back if this continues??
Can they not work on their project and study at home for the day ?
@Suzie Sunshine: Agree. Its amazing how little faith people have in children. Can we not assume that our children have the ability and drive to work on their own without having to have somebody pushing them along?
Andrew .. obviously not ..
No. Books and equipment in school and can’t get them. This might not be applicable to all schools though.
@Techbuzz Ireland: ask Bruton an co they are the ones locking teachers and pupils out tomorrow.
Dramatic much?!! A couple of classes isn’t going to kill them relax
Enda Kenny should hire someone to throw a brick through his window, like in House of Cards
Not all ASTI schools are shut though. My kids school is open as normal as only a handful of the teachers do supervision.
Government seem to be intent of stretching this out for how long remains to be seen.
Do they not get three months off. Paid as well. They’d want to pull up their socks
A lot of NQTs that this strike is relevant to and who are not on permanent contracts aren’t paid for holidays.
ASTI proving to be nothing short of economic terrorists, only interested in destroying the nation’s economy and children’s education
Lowlife malingerers should be sacked on the spot! Highest paid wasters in Europe. They really are a disgusting shower
Highest paid wasters in Europe? What exactly does that mean? Or are you just looking for a reaction?
@rodrigo detriano: in fairness your a sap
U should open a chipper cos u got so many chips on your shoulder..did u have a bad time in school..and u never mentioned how the lazy teachers have 3 months holidays in the summer..wonder how many of the parents giving out about kids missing class time also took their kids out of school early to fly off on holiday
Stop telling lies waffler detriano. They’re the 6th highest paid and deliver more teaching hours than their counterparts in Europe. But sure you know loads of teachers and therefore are an expert. Joker troll.
Yes I am Sean, but I’m an honest sap. You teachers have some neck. I’ve no idea how half it you sleep at night. Disgusting
Brigand is a teacher. You’re not. Shut up
Thomas! Your partner is one of the wasters, so of course you’re going to defend him! No need to insult me though. I’m voicing my opinion based on my personal experience in dealing with Irish second level teachers.
*Berigan bloody autocorrect
Rodrigo … in your head you probably think you’re just being honest but seriously and dare I say it .. go educate yourself ..
Cally. Please come up with something a bit more original. Pathetic
Suzie. I am actually very well educated. I count my blessings every day that Irish teachers had no hand or part in my education though!!!
@rodrigo detriano: Would you leave FF/FG/LIEB out of this rodrigo
Rodrigo, My wife is anything but a waster. She works anything up to 70 hours a week and gives her all for her students. If anyone’s a waster, it’s your parents for providing humanity with a low life fool.
Well anytime you wAnt u come in to my class of 30 fifth year students last class in a Monday and come out alive or to my class of 30 leaving very English students who want high points in their LC to get their course .. no pressure all in the course if one day plus that crime park totally killed teachers extra curricular contribution to schools in that now everything has to be measured by croke park.. all the extras e do outside of school now means Nothing ..we must do it in the interest if the child .., just tell me or give me a comparable example from the private sector who have still maintained their bonuses through the the last 8 years ????
This lad is some angry little dope
Those of us in the private sector accept that we stay at work until the job gets done and pay our tax to fund the public sector. Must be great to be a public sector employee, job for life and no need to worry about your performance.
Would they go for a raise of 4’5k we could call it rent allowance and pay them for the chat just before starting work and 15euro a day for breathing how’s that same as gardai got………..and families homeless… discusting
They’d go for the €1800 which was due to them under the previous agreement for work done. It’s quite simple.
Irish teachers are among the best paid in the world.
- €48,430 Irish teachers at the top of the pay scale
- €35,500 EU average
- €36,415 OECD average
@Neuville-Kepler62F: and for the shortest school year in the world so their pay per hour is enormous. The should be locked out by the employer on say 1st July to force fairness for the taxpayer. The profession should also be opened up to other suitably qualified people moving out of other professions on an equal basis.
@Neiville-Kepler62F “Irish teachers at the top of the pay scale” many of us are no where near that ….can you find the lower pay scales, display them……
In an ideal situation all qualified teachers would leave 3rd level and walk into a full time permanent contract. All the statistics are based on a teacher working a full contract but many teachers are signing contracts for small hours so they are on only a fraction of the salaries. Also, these figures are before tax. Taking into consideration commuting or rent…it doesn’t leave a lot. Yes the wages are decent but by no means high. And as for being paid for all holidays, wouldn’t it be lovely. Not the case for a lot of teachers. Equal pay is an issue but all teachers are available to teach tomorrow but in the interest of health and safety during periods of supervision it is left in the hands of management to make the difficult decision. It is always good to read the small print before joining the witch hunt.
They are paid enough they should have known their salaries when they went for teaching degrees. 126 days work, they are paid more then the private sector get on with it if ye don’t want to work give someone who wants to work the job
Old farts running ASTI, Old Farts should be blown away, Old Farts killing the students and the Countries FUTURE.
I got a lot of negative feedback on this I don’t mind. But there going to be one group of people who will lose the Children, mostly the leaving certificate. There be No catch up time.
Michael . To be fair they’re losing about 40 mins on each subject.tomorrow .. hardly the end of the world for them . They’ll catch up in the end .
40 minutes tomorrow, in each subject. If the strike last a week or more, lots of 40mins. is it only an one day strike tomorrow ? Hopefully that’s all.
ASTI and their teacher body should be ashamed of themselves in a very serious manner….their hypocrisy is transparent and tragic.
You should be ashamed. Teachers are being bullied and thanking advantage of.
@Kathleen Henderson: clown
Behind the teachers 100% – delighted to see them stand up for themselves against our politicsl masters. I hope they don’t work a single hour more unpaid – outrageous but predictable that an “emergency” measure is suddenly supposed to be permanent / the norm.
This government is a disaster.strikes,inquires to cover corruption,its just endless.fg,lab,policies are destroying the country.
Yay
that’s Ed byrne in the picture
is there a list of schools that are closed tomorrow ?
Grand so! Less traffic #liein
This is an Art Attack. THIS is an Art Attack. THIS IS Art Attack!
I support the teachers & think they have a tough job but what I don’t support is the fact they had a fair idea tomorrow & Tuesdays strike would go ahead & failed to provide sufficient work for the children to undertake at home.
Having a child doing leaving cert thankfully he had the brains to bring home the majority if his books but many didn’t & now it looks as if this strike could continue all week & LC students deserve the time & effort & sufficient notice.
Very unfair to receive a text at 8.30pm on Sunday night.
LC students are under enough pressure as it is. Pay the damn teachers their worth & be done with it.
Ah fine gael, William Martin Murphy and the Lockout of 1914 comes to mind.
No TUI members should pass the ASTI picket line on Tuesday
No TUI members should pass the ASTI picket on Tuesday
No TUI teachers should pass the ASTI picket on Tuesday
have your say