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UKIP HAS ASKED the Welsh government to seek EU funding from the Irish government to help upgrade a motorway between London and south Wales.
The M4 motorway is the main artery between the main cities of Wales and the rest of the UK – but it also carries a large amount of Irish goods exported and sold there.
Ukip assembly member David Rowlands made the appeal to the Welsh National Assembly this afternoon. He says that Irish exporters also rely on the M4 to transport goods to other EU countries on the continent – and told TheJournal.ie that it is “quite a reasonable idea to explore”.
Rowlands – one of seven Ukip representatives in the Welsh National Assembly – asked Welsh First Minister Carwyn Jones today to seek Ireland’s help in rebuilding the motorway, using EU transport funds.
“First Minister, given that a large proportion of all Irish exports, both to the UK and the EU, pass along the M4 motorway,” Rowlands began – before halting to read the question posed on the order of business.
Recommencing, he said:
Will the First Minister explore the possibility of part of the costs for the M4 improvement scheme being borne by the Irish government, given that three quarters of all Irish exports to the EU and the UK pass along that road?
The First Minister replied:
No, it’s for the Welsh government to maintain the trunk roads and motorways of Wales.
To jeers, Rowlands said:
I thank the First Minister for the answer, but this is a serious proposition, as I understand Ireland may be able to access European funds from the trans-European highway funds.
“Very ironic, I think,” he added. He proceeded to quote from the EU’s fund allocation principles, which, according to Rowlands, read:
Although we have been investing a lot in improving transport infrastructure, there is under-investment in many smaller cross-border sections, and bottlenecks.
“I trust that they know what they’re saying, and that we can now get funds from the EU. Post-Brexit, of course.”
Irony
Speaking this afternoon to TheJournal.ie, Rowlands said:
“Of course I’m glad they all realise the irony in what I was saying to the assembly, and they were all intelligent enough to pick it up.
“But this is quite a reasonable idea to explore, if you think about it. That bottleneck in Newport is as damaging to the Irish economy as it is to the Welsh or English economy, really.
It is a very main access for the Irish economy to get into the UK and Europe, and it must be causing considerable costs to the Irish motor industry and the haulage industry.
“In a way, if you think about, Ireland – southern Ireland – is still part of the European Union, and it still desires access to the EU and to the British, the UK markets,” he added.
“And if the European Parliament is committed, as they say they are, to having a pan-European highway and networks, they can’t say to Ireland ‘you’re out on a limb now’.
So it’s reasonable for the Irish government to say that ‘this is a vital link’.
“It’s the same with anything with regard to Brexit, I realise the irony.”
Careful
In his reply to Rowlands, First Minister Jones referred to Ukip’s role in Brexit.
“The member seems to be urging on me that I should urge the Irish government to apply for European funding for Welsh roads,” he said.
He campaigned in June to end European funding for Welsh roads – he can’t now go to another EU member state and ask them to make up the shortfall that he himself campaigned to engineer in the first place.
“There’s a second point here as well,” Jones added.
“We must be very careful, because England could turn around and say ‘the M4 goes across the Severn Bridge, a lot of traffic Welsh traffic, so therefore we could ask for a Welsh contribution for traffic east of the Severn Bridge’.
The French authorities could say that the vast majority of freight that comes from the UK goes through Calais, so the English government should pay for road infrastructure in Calais, and the roads that lead from Calais.
“Where is that argument then?”
The UK is Ireland’s largest European export market by volume and value – although the value of Irish exports to Belgium recently overtook those to Britain alone.
Wales recently voted in favour of Brexit, and Ukip won 13% of the recent assembly elections held earlier this year, partly down to their opposition to the EU.
Belfast Agreement
Steffan Lewis of Plaid Cymru said to the Assembly today that there does exist scope for a formal bilateral agreement between Wales and Ireland through the Belfast Agreement.
“This is a surreal question, even by the standards of this year,” he said.
Yet Lewis indicated that there is support for asking for Irish help for Welsh infrastructure.
Will the First Minister consider a formal arrangement with the Irish state so we can have future joint working on infrastructure projects – even tapping, dare I say it, into the EU funds?
He said such an arrangement could be formalised “into a Celtic Sea alliance so we can give some hope to our western regions, and the eastern regions of the Irish state”.
Jones replied: “The Celtic Sea alliance is based, I think, on co-operation between Norway and Sweden, as to how that would work.
“It is likely that we will lose indirect funding [after Brexit], as far as Wales is concerned, which will have an effect, particularly on our ferry ports.
We’re keen to explore new relationships around the Irish Sea, whether it’s with the Republic, Northern Ireland, the Isle of Man, to see how we can ensure that there is minimal disruption when the UK leaves the EU.
“Of course, the British-Irish Council is a useful body in terms of exploring those issues with countries that border the Irish Sea.”
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I don’t think it really gets more ironic than this!!!
Not “ironic” but “moronic”…
OMG. Did this guy go to the Trump College of Political Science. “We are going to build a road and Ireland is going to pay for it”
@David Wool:
They really are an arrogant and ignorant bunch.
And brings a lot of UK exports to Ireland. So they can pay twice.
He’ll be waiting.
@Lamb:sorry,didn’t see your comment when i posted.
Can’t get the Irish Government to fix the roads here, so they can forget about Wales!
@David Wool: Cheeky buggers !!
The point about Belgium is a nonsense. It’s simply using Antwerp as an entry point to sell to the rest of Europe. The idea that 9million Belgians consume more Irish products than 60 million Brits is laughable yet the Journal continues to publish it.
@Mick Johnson: That’s not what they said, they said the value of our exports to Belgium have over taken those to the UK…which is true, they never said it was Belgians who were the final destination for those exports, just like all of our exports to the UK don’t stay there either.
“In a way, if you think about, Ireland – southern Ireland – is still part of the European Union…”
Pretty sure these lads don’t understand we’re a different country to the UK.
“southern Ireland” is also their way of de-legitimizing us as an independent nation. Perhaps we should refer to England as “southern Britain”.
No it’s not. They just don’t know any better. “Southern Ireland” is what the state was originally called under the treaty of 1921.
And what should they call us now instead? There’s no such place as “The Republic of Ireland.” The state is just called “Ireland”, however this creates obvious problems if you need to differentiate between the southern state and the whole country
Southern Ireland, the Republic, the 26 counties, the south…..all equally wrong and none of them are inherently disrespectful. Stop being so sensitive.
@Emeralds: the legal name of the state is actually the Republic of Ireland
No it’s not
Article 4 of the constitution states; The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland.
https://www.constitution.ie/Documents/Bhunreacht_na_hEireann_web.pdf
@Emeralds: that’s the constitutional name and that was Ireland as back when the constitution was written, all or Ireland was claimed. the legal name of the 26 county state is the republic of ireland
The constitution does not have an expiry date. The name of the state is Ireland. Articles 2 & 3 were amended to include the principle of consent for reunification but the name was not changed.
Ive shown you what the supreme legal document in the state says. What’s your legal authority for saying it doesn’t count anymore?
@Emeralds: maybe if you just googled the legal name you will find a few documents that will explain it to you in more detail
I’ll trust the constitution over your second-hand account of something you googled one time, thanks
@Emeralds: or maybe you should just do some proper reading. good night
@gjpb: Maybe you need to do some reading, Ireland is the legal name of the state not the Republic of Ireland, the Republic of Ireland is just a description. In article 4 of the constitution “The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland”
Perhaps you should actually find out the facts before being so arrogant.
To be fair to Emeralds, he’s right about the name. But it’s also correct that the British hate referring to us as a Republic. ” Name of the state: The Constitution declares that “[the] name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland” (Article 4). Under the Republic of Ireland Act 1948 the term “Republic of Ireland” is the official “description” of the state; the Oireachtas, however, has left unaltered “Ireland” as the formal name of the state as defined by the Constitution.”
Fred, we already get bored of hearing references to non-existent things like ‘the Queen of England’ or ‘the English government’ so I doubt we’d care much.
Just says Eire/Ireland on my passport.
@Harry Whitehead:
You wouldn’t mind if i said “Queen of Southern Britain”? The Southern Britain football team are playing Germany on Sunday.
@gjpb: You are wrong. The legal and constitutional name of the Irish state is “Ireland”. The name of the state is reflected in its institutions and public offices. For example, there is a President of Ireland and a Constitution of Ireland. The name Ireland is used in the state’s diplomatic relations with foreign nations and is recognised internationally as the official name of the Irish state. The Republic of Ireland is just the description of the state.
Maybe Journalista’s don’t know this, and that David Rowlands is obviously ignorant of the laws of his own land, but Irish HGV’s have been paying a transit tax to use those roads since 1st April 2014 (and no, that’s not a joke….)
It’s known as the HGV Road User Levy, and states “Vehicles registered abroad must make levy payments before entering the UK (including Northern Ireland)…”
Details here: https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/hgv-road-user-levy
and the FAQ leaflet is here: https://resources.northgateps.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/HGV-Levy-Supplementary-Guidance-Driver-Operator-English-0514.pdf
So what has Mr Rowlands & Co been doing with all the money they’ve collected, then ?
@John Moylan: Excellent spot John
Yet another reason to develop the infrastructure and deep water ports to import/export directly to the continent. By-pass the British entirely and trade with our fellow euro-zone nations, which also eliminates exchange rate problems for imports.
Another thing that should not go un-noticed is the Welsh government commented yesterday that “Brexit also represents an opportunity to attract Irish businesses to set up in Wales to service the UK market”.
When are we going to learn that outside the EU the British are now going to be even greater economic competitors and we must deal with them ruthlessly. Enough of this charade of nice diplomatic language.
@Fred Johnson: Nailed it Fred.
We’re going to build a wall… er, road and we’re going to make Ireland pay for it!
Maybe they could get their buddy Trump to get Mexico pay for it.
We can’t maintain our own boreens
@Upowthat Burke: Should we maintain them in a worse condition? Maybe all L numbered roads should be gravel tracks without a seal.
@Platypus Parcel: Works for Canada – they sure don’t pave every road
As part of Brexit the EU should be funding development of links between Ireland and mainland Europe. We need a way to bypass Britain or they can add charges on all or exports traveling through.
There’s a potentially serious issue underlying this.
A huge proportion of Irish exports to the European Mainland cross the UK. If there are tariffs post-Brexit, it is going to become a complete pain in the backside for our goods to leave the EU and re-enter.
Unless we can find some way of agreeing that transshipped goods can be sealed prior to leaving Ireland and only reopened afterwards, we are going to need to look seriously at getting Irish Ferries and Brittany Ferries to increase commercial capacity to France.
@Chris Mansfield:
If the UK does leave the customs union and there will be tariffs, then the EU will simply have to fund the development of a direct route for us. If not we need to pay for it ourselves as a national economic emergency.
@Fred Johnson: I would be interested to know how much infrastructure we actually need to build.
For one thing, the Ro-Ro berth in Cork is only used once a week by Brittany Ferries since Fastnet Lines went out of business. That could go up to two or three a day (although it would require the M28 plan to be fast-tracked).
You’d also have to assume that some freight would be diverted, leading to reductions in UK routes. Could Rosslare sustain 4 services a day to Fishguard/Pembroke. Could the capacity there be redirected to French routes.
Much of the trouble is that the routes are operated by commercial operators and they may need some form of incentives to increase capacity.
@Chris Mansfield:
To my knowledge Rosslare cannot take the really big trade ships from the continent, so would have to be upgraded if we’re serious about getting direct trade routes here.
Irish Rail own the port of Rosslare…..and they’re trying to close the line to it. Infrastructural foresight in this country is and has been a joke for a long time
You just can’t make this sh*t up!
Joke of the day????
@Carlos André: No, that was Junker ordering us not to have any more of those pesky referendums
Yet another example of the insulated bubble of their own reality in which the “alt-right” live.
Irish trucks normally travel to mainland Europe via P&O direct To Rotterdam or Cherbourg from Dublin port year round in addition to Rosslare during the summer.
Typical pompous Brit thinking the world needs the UK..
By that logic, shouldn’t the UK fund upgrades to the M50?
Think that “build a wall and get the mexicans to pay for it”comment has gone to their stupid heads.
Feckin mental.
Is that tool for real? You wanted out of eu. Now you have to pay the cost of that stupid call on ukips part.
Would he like a tunnel altogether one where european trucks can use. Unlike like the port tunnell.
All trucks can use the port tunnel
Ehhhh. No
The clowns would probably do it.
@Magnus Diccus:
Didn’t we offer Northern Ireland hundreds of millions of euros to fund the road to Derry, being the fools that we are.
@Fred Johnson: the reason that was done was to provide good transport links to Donegal also as it’s currently pretty much cutoff from everywhere
@gjpb:
We were still building roads on United Kingdom territory. Unbelievably stupid.
@Fred Johnson: on the island of Ireland. and to benefit a county in he ROI. but I suppose if you are based in Dublin, you couldn’t care less about the border counties. you seem pretty bigoted and against NI in all of your comments. no better than a hardcore loyalist really for all your talk
@gjpb:
I couldn’t care less, not two hoots, about the road conditions in any other state than the Republic of Ireland, and i don’t want my taxes going to their maintenance. that ok with you?
@Fred Johnson: I don’t care about your 2 hoots. the most direct route to connect Donegal to Dublin is via NI and the Irish government were part funding the road so that Donegal could be connected to the capital city of the country.
now I am off for the evening. think of a good comeback young fellow.
@gjpb:
The road is the road to Derry, a city in the United Kingdom. We were paying to build a road in British territory that goes to a city in the United Kingdom.
No maybe Baldrick a cunning plan.. could we get the UK to pay for a motorway between Limerick and Cork.As our poor little country can’t afford it according to the government.
Reminds me of our own “peace activists” who deride NATO at every turn yet are happy to live under the blanket off security it provides. All paid for by the taxpayers of nations friendly to us
Actually not a bad idea. They sell us the road in return for our use of EU funding to upgrade it and then we stick a toll on it and reap the profits.
Good title for a new book: For Whom the Road Tolled.
A possible Celtic Sea Alliance? Sure according to companies house UK, which has it’s offices in Wales, the Republic of Ireland & more specifically, Co. Limerick is part of the United Kingdom?
UKidding
Apart from the obvious irony, the concept of getting foreign drivers to pay for local roads is not that outrageous. Some countries, e.g. Switzerland and Austria, force all road users to buy a motorway sticker when using the local network. Like an all you can drive toll charge.
@Adrian: see my reply above: the UK already charges any non-UK registered HGV to pay a toll per day to use it’s roads. It’s been in force since 1st April 2014.
@Adrian: a toll is one thing, building the road then charging us for its use is a really novel idea.
@Austin Rock:
As a non-interested party looking at it from far away, to me the Irish should look at it as a business proposal and respond with “Oh yes, we’ll gladly provide the road-building service in exchange for our freedom to set and collect OUR tolls on this route from ANYBODY, Brits included, for the next 25-30-40-50 years, while you won’t be collecting yours from us ANYWHERE across the UK for the same period”. Forget the hurt pride, there’s good business to be had if you approach it from the right angle. :-)
This is all academic really as the EU slowly folds. With luck France will quit next then the Netherlands and maybe Austria will beat them to it ? Anyway we need to be ready
@MackPilon: — We? I thought you were British, and voted for Brexit.
@Ted Murray:
Lot of Brits on irish websites using the royal “we” when spreading their anti-EU propaganda. there’s dozens of them on the Independent. They’ve left the club so they want to see the club burn.
Don’t be surprised to hear Edna say yes what a great idea!!
We cant even maintain our national roads at the current state. Population of Rep of ireland 4.7 million. Population of UK: 62 miilion ????
You want a new road/transport system? Pay for it yourself! You leave EU, this is what you get! Don’t be looking for handouts from Ireland, cos we ain’t gots no money anyhows
They will introduce weight stations and any trucks going on to the European mainland will pay the country it travels through a toll for using their motorways. That’s Brexit for ye lads.
Maybe we should all move to Wales one Tory party is the same as the other
Not a patch on Plaid Cymru.
That UKIP crowd are living in la-la land
I’ve read it all now! Words fail me.
We cant motorways ourself ffsake
Well Trump wants Mexico to pay for the building of a wall, hmm why not Ireland build a road in Wales that our truckers use!!
I received a phone call and there are a few typing errors above. Here it is again, fuxed
The goods news is that after a few false starts, UKIP has picked a new leader. Paul Nuttall was always my favourite and I was working for him with my contacts there. He is a great lad who will pull votes, especially from Labour.
On this UKIP suggestion. , I must confess I am not up to speed on it, I seems like a call to get Ireland to pay for Welsh motor way. It also seems that many here express shock and horror at the idea. However there is a precident There was a proposal a while back to supply Britain with electricity from the Irish mislands. Wind energy companies would produce erratic intermittent electricity, feed it into the Irish grid and the grid would export high quality electricity to Britain. The wind companies would get paid a premium price, the Irish comsumer of electricity would pay the cost of generarting and transmission of fossil fuel conventional electricity and the British would get a bargain and meet their renewable obligations. Irish consumers already paying the 3rd highest electricity prices in the world, would have to bear the added cost of supplying Britain. Effectively Irish consummers would be subsidizing Britain. So if its OK in this case it should be OK with the motorway.
@Val Martin: — Will it now be the All Nutt Party?
@Ted Murray: Well spotted LOl
We don’t even have motorways in half this country! We should be getting them!
We should definitely build it…
The goods news is that after a few false starts, UKIP has picked a new leader. Paul Nuttall was always my favourite and I was working for him with my contacts there. He is a great lad who will pull votes, especially from Labour.
On this, I must confess I am not up to speed on it, I seems like a call to get Ireland to pay for Weksh motor way. In it also seems that many here express shock and horror at the idea. However there is a president. There was a proposal a while back to supply Britain with electricity from the Irish mislands. Wind energy companies would produce erratic intermittent electricity, feed it into the Irish grid and the grid would export high quality electricity to Britain. The wind companies would get pais a premium price, the Irish comsumer of electricity would pay the cost of generarting and transmission of fossil fuel conventional electricity and the British would get a bargain and meet their renewable obligations. Irish consumers already paying the 3rd highest electricity prices in the world, would have to bear the added cost of supplying Britain. Effectively Irish consummers would be subsidizing Britain. So if its OK in this case it should be OK with the motorway.
have your say