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FIFTEEN YEARS BEFORE the death penalty was abolished by the Irish people in a referendum, the country was coming under increased international pressure to end the practice.
Despite this, there was division within official circles about whether doing anything could be politically risky.
Details of these discussions have been revealed in newly released files from the Department of Foreign Affairs.
A briefing note from a civil servant to the then-First Secretary outlined these concerns even though, as it points out, Ireland didn’t even have an executioner to carry out such punishments.
The briefing note reads:
The death penalty in this country is largely a quaint throwback to the days when everyone else had one. As we no longer have a hangman, and almost the only country in the world in a position to train one is South Africa. There is no immediate prospect of execution in this jurisdiction.That being said, the abolition of the death penalty would represent a strong political minus in the eyes of certain right-wing groupings, including the gardaí, the RUC and the DUP. While the step would be practically meaningless, it could be used in a politically damaging way.
“I imagine the moral dimension interests you not a whit,” the note adds.
Ireland carried out its last execution in 1954 and by 1986 the sentence was only available for a number of serious offences including treason and the murder of gardaí.
In the intervening period the sentence was commuted to life imprisonment by the President.
Then-Senator and current Minister Shane Ross introduced a private member’s motion seeking to abolish in 1984 but that bill stalled during Garret FitzGerald’s administration.
Lobbying from human rights organisations sought to bring Ireland into line with many other European countries and correspondence sent to TDs from members of Amnesty International kept the pressure on.
Template letter sent to the representatives ended with the plea:
Since the death penalty is a violation of the right to life, as proclaimed in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, I want to stress Amnesty International’s opposition to this kind of punishment in all circumstances and without reservation.
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I’m in favour in the most extreme cases. Prison is like s holiday camp in this country. I suppose that makes me a right wing nut
We’re you in long
Frank,
“We’re you in long” makes no sense whatsoever.
Well how would anyone know prison was easy unless the had been there does that make sense
Those of us that have worked in one for decades have a very good idea.
Frank,
No.
Guess you didn’t see the video of Gilligan and thug pals having the run of our so called maximum security prison in portlaoise
Here is a scenario for those that opposed the Death Penalty. Mr X breaks into a family home. He kidnappes their 6 yr old little girl rapes and murders her. Is then caught and convicted and given the Irish Life Sentence (average 14 years). So after playing all the games required and telling all the Psychiatrists what they want to hear is relased after say 14 years. But this time he rapes and murdered 2 little girls before he gets caught. Now what would you say to the families of the second two victims? Sorry but I couldn’t stand to see him executed for the first crime even though it would have meant your little girls would be alive today if they had executed him?
There’s always a risk that the first convictions are in fact wrongful convictions. In your hypothetical scenario I would support the death penalty after the second set of murders but not the first.
Of course people who commit serious crimes deserve death, but the problem is there is always a chance that someone convicted of a terrible crime is innocent, and if one innocent person is executed I think that is too many. Look at Harry Gleeson he was wrongfully executed in this country in 1941 after a corrupt prosecution withheld evidence, he was only exonerated in 2015 long after his life was cruelly taken from him.
Then look at the Guildford four wrongly imprisoned for carrying out a bombing, their lives were ruined but at least they received justice in their lifetime and at least they enjoyed some freedom after their wrongful convictions were quashed. An execution is final and cannot be reversed.
We need a lot of reforms in our justice system to ensure criminals are properly punished but the death penalty is not one of them.
Jason. And if during the first trial the evidence was simply overwhelming against the dependent leaving zero chance of it being anyone else?
@Mick Jordan: Was not the evidence that convicted the Birmingham 6 overwhelming until over turned a number of years later? In fact the Judge who sentenced them remarked that if the death penalty was still available he would have had no hesitation in applying it……
Kerry. Was DNA evidence available then? We’re modern forensics available then? What are the chances of someone having identical DNA to you? Trillions to 1?
Average life sentence is over 20 years in Ireland now.
Eoin. No its not.
@Mick Jordan: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/average-life-sentence-up-to-two-decades-from-7-years-in-1980s-1.2181655
The headline is enough. Facts > feelings.
You regularly see comments on social media, including the Journal, calling for the death penalty. Some scary right wing people out there.
You’d hope that people’s online persona doesn’t match their real life one
@Tweety McTweeter: I dunno – the usual suspects were welcoming in the new year by commenting on this site. I’d say their online persona is equally pathetic in real life.
If it was up to me, people in the Larry Murphy ilk would have been put to death.
It’s simply protecting society from animals such as him forever, as opposed to just while he’s locked up wasting tax payers money.
Have to say I’m in favour of the death penalty for serious offences. Like murder. And not indicating properly at roundabouts.
In what way would you fine gentlemen say society has improved since it was removed? Has the Murder rate gone up or down? Is the average 14 year (Life Sentence) been a deterrent?
The US is pretty much the only developed western country that still has the death penalty and their crime rates are through the roof compared to European standards
Not the question I asked Tweety .
From 2005-2015 the homicide rate has decreased by half. It was 126 in 2005 and 63 in 2015. I think you need to look at other factors, rather than deterrence, to explain this but this doesn’t suit your narrative Mick. http://www.cso.ie/multiquicktables/quickTables.aspx?id=cja01
I’m quite right wing but the death penalty is something I just can’t agree with. There’s always the nagging thought that maybe the person is innocent despite overwhelming evidence of the contrary, and with jail it’s not to late to fix the mistakes made in a courtroom, but there’s no going back from the death penalty
Darren. You may also notice attempted murders has gone up. As has Sexual crimes and Kidnappings. Now if one were to break down the Homicide rate into domestic and criminal taking into account the reduction in terrorist activities what would the figures show.
So, are you suggesting that the death penalty should apply to attempted murder/threats to kill and sexual offences, even minor ones ? I really don’t know what you mean by breaking offences down into domestic and criminal. As for your ‘terrorist activities’ argument, political killings had significantly reduced by 2005, even in the North.
Darren. Your attempt to murder does not negate the fact that you tried, simply that you failed. The simple act of trying with intent to take another’s life is enough.
Darren. Let me put it this way. Let’s say you planted a bomb on a Luas tram during the Christmas Shopping height with the full intention of killing and maiming as many people as possible. But for what ever reason your bomb fails to explode. And you are convicted of Attempted Murder. Does the fact your bomb failed lessen your attempt and intention?
There has never been an execution in the ROI that has not been political
@Boganity:
Must the leading candidate for dumbest comment of the day
How about just locking someone up for30-40 years when they get life as opposed to the stupidly of 15 year life sentence that allows you out after 12
Declan. Currently the sentence for Capital Murder is 40 years with no remission. But as we have seen on multiple occasions political expediency interferes in the Judicial process. How many of those that have committed Capital Murder have served the full 40 years? 0 that is how many.
@declan leonard: The INLA killers of garda Morley & Byrne in 1980 each got a 40 year sentence but were released some time ago. Life sentences should mean whole life with no remissions where members of the garda are concerned.
It’s good that the death penalty is abolished. If the state carries out the sentence, they are murders also. Secondly how about a miscarriage of justice. That an innocent man put to death. America has proved that the death sentence does not work . We live in a modern society and the death sentences belong to yesteryear.
Brendan. Using that same analogy are Prison Officers Kidnappers because the keep people against their will? The question of does it work or it doesnt is unanswerable. Simply because it is down to each individual killer. In one the thought of being executed may prevent them carrying out the murder while in another they may not care either way.
Those arguing for the death penalty are arguing from an emotive standpoint. Sure, when we hear of a horrific crime like a child being abducted and killed – we all from an emotive standpoint would want to see the person responsible killed.
The problem with the death penalty is innocent people will be killed. Miscarriages of justice do occur. If the death penalty was common practice, the Guildford Four would be long dead and it would have been too late to prove their innocence.
As much as people say prison is a holiday camp – it really isn’t. Does anyone on here really envy being stuck being bars for the rest of their life? I know I wouldn’t.
We don’t need a death penalty. We need appropriate sentencing. Stop filling our prisons with drug addicts, and invest in rehab for them. For repeat offenders, like serial offenders – there needs to be a point where we just throw away the key. And for murder, life should mean life.
Sean. Let’s say for example someone is sent to Prison for a Full Life Term. What then is there to prevent them killing a Prison Officer or another inmate. They are never going to be released anyway so what have they got to loose? If you keep them in Solitary they you have a whole battalion of organisations screaming about torture and abuse of human rights. So basically you give them a licence to do as they see fit within the Prison because there is very little else you can do to them.
@Mick Jordan: “What then is there to prevent them killing a Prison Officer or another inmate. ”
Proper procedures in prison, sufficient staffing, safety and security exercises.
The death penalty does not reduce crime. It will result in innocent people being executed. These are the cold hard facts of the matter and your hypothetical doesn’t change that.
Sean and what would those proper procedures be? Do tell. Show me any Prison anywhere on the Planet that inmates can’t or haven’t been able to fashion deadly weapons from the most innocuous things? Then add in all those organisations over watching every single thing that happens in Prisons waiting to pounce on the smallest infraction on an inmates rights.
@Seán Ó Briain: its actually the prisoners who are stating that prison is a holiday camp, many have been interviewed and stated this! that’s why they are up to 200 previous convictions, there is no deterrent in this country if you commit a crime we have the rent a dogooders, human rights etc coming out of the wood work if hanging came back i would not raise an eyelid if some if the filth in this county where hanged. they have an easy life in prision. heating, free health care, courses, social workers, PCs, and money per week, from the taxpayers! (victims). choice of meals per day and prison guards who are not allowed to shout or touch the poor darlings. bring it back!
Stephen the penalty is the biggest product of a broken society. Killing a killer is a self defeating prophecy. You in turn are quite happy to kill another human. In my view is cannot separate your thinking from the think of any murderer. Just because the prison system doesn’t work here does not make it a bad system. I want rapists & murderers locked up for 50 years & if you can’t see that as a deterrent you are wrong. If all the murderers or rapist of this country faced losing their liberty for 50 years I assure you they would think twice. You also talk about dogooders & people looking out for people human rights. The irony of that is everyday those rights are what keep you safe as a citizen & in any justice system this is the very basis of justice. You however are looking for a revenge system not a justice system. No I’m not here to say it’s all good cos it’s not but because there is too much nudge nudge wink wink going on in Ireland the system is abused. If you like the revenge system off you pop to the Philippines & see how you like it.
*death
@Mjhint: life in Ireland is 15 yrs 2 years is automatically taken off when a prisoner goes in the door no one has ever served 50 years in prision it takes 80000 a year to keep them in luxury, we have prisioner with more than 200 convictions who know the law inside out look at the gangsters running around this country at the moment i make no apologies for the above reply maybe you should take a hike and go to the Philippines seen you seem to know a lot about it
You regularly see comments on social media, including the Journal, calling for the death penalty. Some scary right wing people out there.
Double post : (
A hanging offence.
Off to the gallows ….
Too cruel, vive la guillotine.
@Brian MacCarthaigh: no, some nutters just deserve it. Its no good that they sit in jail doing noting, getting fed for taxpayer monies. Human rights bullsh*. I work my bollix off and I cannot afford to pay gym membership after paying all rent and other bills. They have it all Free of Charge, educate for free while I have to pay for all the courses. They laugh in our faces. Deth penalty it should be
70 year old stabbed in Dublin. No doubt some $c*m with 100+ convictions.
Will never contributed positively to society. Will no doubt get a little talking to another suspended sentence and free to do it again.
Hang’um.
Guildford 4 Birmingham 6
The liberals think people can be reformed when in fact most can’t. Why should a child rapist and murderer for example live a life inside watching tv in his cell or even studying?
I’ve heard the argument but them in for life on bread and water when we all know that is never going to happen.
Let people vote on it….Referendum
It’s not so much the idea that Ireland had the death penalty that bothers me but the inconsistent way in which it was applied. Also Harry Gleeson, who was hanged in the wrong, would cause me to think twice.
This is a bit of a shameless plug but I wrote a book about thirty people who had the death penalty imposed on them by the Irish State between 1922 and 1985 if anyone is interested. http://Www.somervillepress/sentence.html
There is a simple solution to this argument. No person has the right to take another’s life. ( why on earth do you think others do it with the exception of mental health reasons?) But prison should mean prison. Follow the Texas guy and his method. If…and only if…. half the term given has been lived with exemplary behaviour, then, and only to those, start rehabilitative training as on the Swiss model.
Capital punishment is the most premeditated of murders, to which no criminal’s deed, however calculated can be compared. For there to be an equivalency, the death penalty would have to punish a criminal who had warned his victim of the date at which he would inflict a horrible death on him and who, from that moment onward, had confined him at his mercy for years. Such a monster is not encountered in private life.
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