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IRISH TRAWLERS WERE put in peril by foreign submarines which were using the Irish Sea for ‘war games’ and other surveillance missions.
Records released by the National Archive from 1986 showed the anger among many fishermen and the Department of Foreign Affairs over the proliferation of submarines in Irish waters.
In one incident, the trawler Sharelga was sank leading to a legal case against the British Admiralty.
Incidents in Clougherhead, Louth and Dunmore East, Waterford, led to Wexford TD Hugh Byrne demanding that the US, UK and Soviet fleets “play their war games elsewhere”.
The Forei,gn Affairs Minister at the time, Peter Barry, tried to quell the fears of Irish fishermen claiming he was in discussions with nations in a bid to stop them using sovereign waters.
Dangers
He said: “I wish to take this opportunity to reiterate the government’s serious concern about the dangers faced by the Irish fishing trawlers because of submarine traffic in the Irish sea.
“I know that people in Clogherhead and in several other fishing ports are deeply worried by recent incidents. I want to assure them that the government is fully conscious of their anxiety and is using every opportunity in its contacts with the government of countries which are submarine powers, to impress upon them the dangers involved to our vessels.”
Despite Barry’s claims, the relationship between Britain and Ireland was strained. Newspaper reports at the time quoted a British Admiral spokesman as saying “If you go fishing in a submarine exercise area, you might catch a submarine one day.”
The British took full responsibility for the sinking of the Sharelga in 1982 and had agreed to pay “all fair and reasonable claims”, according to government documents released by the National Archives.
The British offered IR270,000 which was rejected by the owner of the trawler, who was demanding a figure upwards of one million.
The Government feared that non payment of the compensation was going to fracture the already fragile relationship between the British and Irish.
The report read: “We think it is quite possible that at some point the lack of settlement will become controversial and will be politically exploited and will complicate relations.”
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Go away Arlene, the grown ups are talking.
@Steve:
Everybody who said the unionists would be sold out by Britain were right.
Take a bow.
@T Beckett is back: you are being premature Nd everyone said that last time too. The Irish border issue has not been resolved and is covered in yellow ink, which means it is yet to be agreed fully. This will all unravel in next few days.
@Steve: Quite right Steve. Now that has been sorted The DUP get on with their real job and get the Assembly working again. Big success for the Irish Government and particularly for our Tanaiste, Simon Coveney. We’ll done guys.
@Donal Hanley: David Davies has just confirmed no deal on Northern Ireland, but he hopes there can be an agreement.
@Donal Hanley: No deal has been made. I suggest you read the article again.
@Ian Walsh: There are sources of news other than the journal. Check BBC, SKY NEWS and Irish Times. There is agreement in principle to keep an open border by whatever means may be necessary.
@Donal Hanley: no deal has been done, nothing has changed. The BBC stayed this on Daily Politics and now Barnier has stated significant tensions remain in the NI border issue. You will have to hold off on your Coveney love in for a little longer.
@Steve: She’s not even in Government the cheek of that wan!
Tories biggest error accepting their (DUP) Vote.
10 extreme Bigots dictating the future of Great Britain! Can you believe It?
@Donal Hanley: the tolls has to work . So the border has to work . I spent twenty minutes at the tolls in Dublin road.
@Steve: the tolls has to work . So the border has to work . I spent twenty minutes at the tolls in Dublin road.simon coveney is a puppy on a string.
@Paul Fahey: You have to learn to read between the lines. Barnier has made it clear there will be no formal agreement that does not make provision for the Irish situation. No real will be signed until that is done. Note carefully the statement by Boris that the GFA agreement must be protected at all costs.
@Steve: if you don’t try to understand Arlene’s worries and concerns things will never improve and move forward. As a native Irish speaker and nationalist I have an appreciation of her concerns. As far as I am concerned the tradition from which she comes is part of our island and an understanding and acceptance of that would be helpful, I don’t agree with her, but we need to understand. I was previously attacked here for being SF, I assume because of my Irish name and my distaste for the ‘butchers apron’ (union flag). I am not SF, but a proud Irishman who embraces al traditions on our island.
@Donal Hanley: oh yeah, you have to read between the lines, of course, because you love Simon Coveney. Nothing has changed, nothing, you can tell yourself whatever you want, but nothing has changed. The fat the EU is willing to do a trade deal without the Irish question answered would suggest you are way off and we may still be hung out to dry, again.
@Paul Fahey: Dear boy get somebody to explain to you the significance of the ‘green’ print. It means everything in green (The provisional) agreement goes no further without the Irish problem being solved. We’ll done Coveney.
@Donal Hanley: ah look at you liking your own post, so cute. However, RTÉ, BBC and Sky have all just lead with the fact there is no agreement on the Irish border and their are still significant issues and tension, but you crack on liking your own comments if it makes you and Simon feel better.
@Paul Fahey: They’re rolling over again Paul and you know it. Why are you even bothering?
@Paul Fahey: I have never and never would ‘like’ my own posts. I’m simply not that type of person. I’m a 78 year old interested in politics local and international all my life. Shame on you for such a cheap accusation. You ignored my point about the ‘green’ print. No surprise there.
@T Beckett is back:
Sold out?
They don’t want a hard border either but had no solutions of their own.
Merci Monsieur Barnier!!!
From Ireland.
@T Beckett is back: why? this is just a can kicking exercise. Nothing has changed from yesterday in reality.
@Paul Fahey: Are you kidding me !, their prime minister agreed in legal text to affirm the backstop after she told her Parliament no politician would sign up to such an arrangement which would treat NI differently to the rest of the UK.
Unless you are completely cynical, and you very well may be, the UK politicians have just saw the first signs that their business community may not suffer total and utter catastrophe (along with ours) and Labour would easily trade NI for trade certainty.
@Gerald Kelleher: You seem unaware that the Irish border text is covered in yellow ink, which states it is yet to be agreed. Nothing has changed, nothing. This will all unravel in the next few days, just like last time.
@Paul Fahey: David Davies has just confirmed no deal for Northern Ireland agreed, but they hope a deal can be agreed where no special arrangement would be needed. As I said, nothing has changed. When will we stop swallowing spin from politicians.
@Paul Fahey: The border issue in its backstop arrangement is agreed in legal text and the DUP must know that Labour who also would have no problem with the legal text are waiting in the wings if the DUP pull the plug on the Tory Government.
The sheer relief among British commentators today even if they feel a tinge of guilt over NI unionists but business is business and there is no going back to December when the DUP undermined conservative policy.
@Gerald Kelleher: even the BBC (pro remain) have stated nothing has changed in the border issue and it is just a can kicking exercise. Wait and see.
@Paul Fahey: Nothing has changed with the border issue apart from the fact that the UK agreed to a legal text that previously they said they could never sign up to. The UK Government have finally woken up to the difference between aspirations and practicality and their business community has been starved of the latter for so long. The direction of the can kicking has changed and it is the UK business community that is doing the kicking just as it did when their business was affected by IRA bombing which eventually led to the GFA. The ‘clock is ticking’ is no longer a slogan and the UK politicians know it.
@Gerald Kelleher: oh dear, go read the substance again.
@Paul Fahey: Oh dear indeed !, with a year to go Paul, what do you think is going to happen as business starts to look for certainty. This is not NI where disagreement can last for 5 years without any outcome, the aspirations which have dominated British politics for years are giving way quickly so kicking the can now goes in both directions.
@Gerald Kelleher: and the point remains, nothing has changed on the Northern Ireland issue; Barnier has now even earned that significant tension remains over Northern Ireland.
@Paul Fahey: What has changed is the extension of time before Britain leaves but this is not so-called can kicking, it is the quick change from aspiration to pragmatism that was sorely needed in UK politics. It is not what the BBC or Barnier says, it is how it appears to those who have watched the whole thing unfold over the years as business faces unneeded obstacles for little more than nationalistic wishful thinking. The best that can be hoped for is that a better type of British politician emerges from the chaos and one that can challenge the EU from within.
@Gerald Kelleher: oh wow. Even the Irish press and media are now reporting there is still significant work to be done on the border issue. You could always just acknowledge you misread the situation before it unravels even further over the next few days.
@Paul Fahey: I know your type so no point in taking this further. Despite your belief that nothing has changed, my original statement is more or less correct in that the UK business community has seen signs that there is no so-called cliff edge next March but that is not can kicking, that just says goodbye to the slogan ‘no deal is better than a bad deal’ as the Brexit wishful thinking begins to disappear quickly.
Anything else you can have but reasonable people realize things have changed and maybe you do too.
@Paul Fahey: You’re living in denial Paul. The argument has been over for weeks if not months. The only items left up for discussion are how they sell the capitulation to UKIP and their sleepers in the Tory party. It’s going to become “difficult viewing” from here on in.
Great news. The British have royally screwed us yet again but luckily this time the EU has our back. Stregth in numbers. BTW Get lost trolls, before you say it we guaranteed our own banks and made our own bubble mistakes
@Goban Saor: but nothing has been agreed, why are you reading it that the Brits have screwed us? This is just a can kicking exercise.
@Paul Fahey: as long as there’s opposition to northern Ireland being aligned with the European customs union this “can” will be kicked down the road indefinitely. When the opposition quietens down post Brexit and the DUP and May is out of government it’ll be made permanent. This “can kicking exercise” is a real victory for Ireland and the EU, mark my words.
Unless she knows something we don’t, Arlene will not be happy about this because the ‘Backstop’ could well mean that Northern Ireland will no longer be an equal member of the United Kingdom. It could instead turn out to be a No Man’s Land between the EU and UK. I guess the DUP will pull the plug on the Tory government….
@Kieran Magennis: what’s amazing is that the DUP backed Brexit. What a mistake for them that was!
@Sean Murphy: Yea Sean the DUP were like turkeys voting for Christmas
Thanks to the DUP, that backstop also means that the rest of the UK would remain in full alignment with the single market. No border between ROI and NI, and no border between NI and GB: this effectively means no border between EU and UK.
Good plan,absolutely no point atm in trying to do business with the Tories whilst they are propped up by the dup/oo sect.
So unless another solution is found there will be a Sea Border. And after all the Huffing and Puffing out of London and the DUP.
If Carlsberg did border agreements…..
@Mick Jordan: you may want to read the Irish press now too, they are now stating there is still still significant tensions and work to be done on the border issue. Nothing has changed, nothing.
@Mick Jordan: That’s the way I see it the backstop is in place unless the UK and EU agree to a free trade agreement.
@Paul Fahey: Keep telling yourself that. LOL.
@Mick Jordan: oh dear, have you not read it fully. Have you not listened to Barnier state no agreement and significant tension still exists. David Davies has also stated no agreement on border, but hey why listen to those two when you state otherwise.
@Paul Fahey: The if the UK want a Brexit deal they know they will have to accept the backstop as written. Their “hope” is that it will not come to that and another solution will be found. They have had close on 2 years to think up a workable solution that does not compromise the GFA in any way, but have failed so far. With only one year left the likelihood of the current UK Government putting aside their civil war and actually coming up with a workable solution is optimistic in the extreme. It is plainly obvious to everyone including the UK Government that the needs of the rest of the UK outweighs the needs and wants of the DUP.
It looks like the DUP have found themselves in a less than ideal situation as pulling down the Tory Government becomes secondary to relief among English society that they have at least some negotiating leverage and they are not going to give that up no matter how many sashes, Lambeg drums and fifes show up at Downing Street.
We can safely say EU 1 – UK 0
@Mick Jordan: My understanding is that a country (keyword = citizens) cannot remain economically “governed” by the EU without having a legal influence and right to be represented within the EU decision making process that affect that country’s citizens, regardless of political governance. This was a point made by the European Court of Human Rights by a Gibraltarian citizen some years ago I believe.
@Mick Jordan: still a no score draw in reality and as boring as most no score draws too,
@Paul Fahey: You seem to forget there are other parts of the agreement that the UK have folded on as well such as the Fishing rights.
@Mick Jordan: actually I think the EU have just given the UK the cake they said they couldn’t have. The more I read about it the more I thin’ the UK has come out better in this. Fishing has indeed been ceded for a further 18 months and then they have agreement that it is all theirs, I think Irish fishermen would more than settle for such a deal.
@Paul Fahey: Then why are Scotish and Fishermen in the NE of England so unhappy with what was agreed?
@Mick Jordan: Actually I thought we’d already scores 2 or 3 but I won’t argue with you Mick.
Kicking a can down the road
@Derek O’Sullivan: it will continue to be kicked. This is the end of brexit. The Norwegian Solution
Another Diplomatic ambiguous fudge, which doesn’t say anything if you read it!
Still sufficient for the DUP to go apoloxic, stomp their feet, rattle their sabres and throw their toys from the pram!
It could be a long hot summer!
@Jarlath Murphy:
@Tom Gavin: THE DUP WILL ALWAYS BE APOPLECTIC NO MATTER WHAT AGREEMENT IS REACHED….NO SURRENDER.
NOTHING HAS OR EVER WILL CHANGE WITH THEM!
The sooner their arrangement with the Brit. Govt. is gone, the better!
In the simplest of terms, England voted to leave the single market. It seems they still want all the benefits that the EU has to offer or at the very least the ones that suit them. Personally I would hate to see a hard border. The sabre rattling and toy throwing are starting to wear thin at this stage. England need to be told how things are going to be done. They gave up their rights to demand anything of other EU countries with their referendum. Great Britain is not great any more and haven’t been for a long time. Time the Tories were slapped into place. You can’t have your cake and eat it.
@Séa Graham: What’s wrong with trying to acquire the benefits the UK wants from the EU, and similarly the benefits the EU wants from the UK ? – OECD figures 2017, the EU has a trade surplus with the UK close to 100 billion euro.
That’s a lot of EU jobs, prosperity and political influence. If it were my money, I’d be looking for some cherries on my slice of cake.
It’s an agreement in principle.
But if it comes down to it, changing the geopolitical nature of NI would require the self determination of the NI electorate.
What happens if the UK makes reasonable proposals, the EU rejects them and the people reject becoming an EU protectorate?
It’s not clear.
Still in the long grass.
@Damocles:
“What happens if the UK makes reasonable proposals,”
What happens if pigs fly?
UK has had over a year to make reasonable proposals and have declined to do so.
Stop blaming the Eu.
You decided to leave.
@T Beckett is back: I made no decision you tucking fool.
You don’t address the main point. What of self determination for NI?
@Damocles: But they are not changing the “Geopolitical” nature of NI. They are altering the “Economic” standing. Politically NI remains part of the UK, Economically it remains in the EU.
@Mick Jordan: the majority of NI exports goes to the UK not the EU . It would damage the NI economy to stay in EU when the UK is leaving . A border in the sea should not even be an option .
@Mick Jordan: as of today Northern Ireland and Britain are both economically and politically part of the EU and nothing that has happened today has changed that. For Northern Ireland to leave the UK it would require a referendum and I doubt very much they would vote to leave the UK in order to remain in the EU. Beyond Brexit there are significant constitutional issues for Northern Ireland.
@Paul Fahey: But nobody is suggesting NI leave anything. In fact the suggestion is that they firmly remain. What the UK Government have agreed to is that NI would remain economically inside the EU while remaining an integral part of the UK. Much the same as the Isle Of Man has special tax status within the UK. Much like Boris’s “have your cake and eat it” scenario.
@Mick Jordan: that is the suggestion from the EU, but not from Britain, that is the issue. There are British constitutional issues in them remaining part of the EU and the rest of the UK not, which you seem to be willfully ignoring.
@Paul Fahey: What constitutional issues? They are not leaving the UK. One part of the UK namely NI would be just readjusting it’s economic policy which is perfectly legal and entitled to do under devolutionary powers. No different to maintaining its own budget spending.
@Mick Jordan: wow, you really need to look deeper as the UK is not just about the Northern Irish border issue.
@Paul Fahey: But it is the thing a successful Brexit deal for the UK hinges on.
Nothing new here. A formal agreement on the transition period, a confirmation of the backstop should no other solution be agreed – allows further Brexit negotiations to continue.
Or am I missing something ?
@wattsed: Yes – even signing up to a legal text recognizing a backstop is a step that she said was not going to happen -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVFkvMYsa2Q
I would say there are flames coming from Arlene’s shoulders right now but maybe they even see the impossibility of the border issue and the wishes of their electorate.
@Gerald Kelleher: Perhaps, but my reading of it in the international press was that it now allows formal trade negotiations to commence, that EU residents arriving in the UK during the transition period can apply to remain in the UK, that Britain is free to negotiate trade agreements outside the EU during the transition period. And that the objective of avoiding a hard border remains, if not – use the fallback. So now we move on to trade, the money side, where all the serious self interested lobby groups across the EU start to exert influence on their respective governments. Interesting times ahead, and possibly sacrifices and casualties. .
@wattsed: The GFA was among the greatest achievement of British politicians and recognized worldwide as a template for other disputes. The Brexiteers just don’t get it as they see it as guards, dogs, electronic surveillance whereas those who know the difference between the old border patrols and none at all by experience travelling South to North have a clear sense what freedom is. It feels so natural that the DUP have a lot to answer for by looking for its return.
The best of a bad situation is a border down the Irish sea.
@Gerald Kelleher: Gerald, I get the hard border of the past, my father worked for Irish Lights, driving around this island painting and maintaining lighthouses, subject to all kinds of “scrutiny” by all kinds of people. You make sweeping unfair generalisations about Brexiteers. There are assumptions that a “side” voted leave, whilst another “side” voted remain. That’s indicating there is still a large degree of tribalism in N.I. which in modern Ireland is far from the truth, I’ve been up a good number of times visiting friends, it’s reinvented itself at community level enormously. But when people like Coveney start talking a “United Ireland in my political lifetime” what is the desired effect of that, peace and unity or antagonism of extremity ?
@Gerald Kelleher: And just an anecdote, with my accent, walking in to pubs in Dublin for a quiet pint, I’ve been asked many times sitting next to someone at the bar and talking shite and football, “are you one of us or one of them”.
Paradoxically, that same question has never been asked up North. Now who’s putting up a hard border ? – the armchair anti Brits in the RoI cloaked in a “cause”, for what, is it fashionable still ?
@wattsed: “There are assumptions that a “side” voted leave, whilst another “side” voted remain.”
That is exactly what happened – it was a UK wide vote so had the largest parties in Northern Ireland truly wished to maintain movement and all the benefits of the GFA, they should have acted as if that political achievement counted over an internal Tory squabble. Instead they went their own tribal ways thereby allowing the referendum to proceed and so what if unionist farmers in the North voted remain, it was always out of their hands due to population size.
The DUP have been playing a very counter-productive game with English politicians which does not benefit their electorate in the long run as business will eventually win over even if the conservative Government has to fall.
Will the EU implement a hard border or will the UK implement a hard border.If it’s the EU will the Irish Government bow to our masters in Germany.
A “landmark” agreement to kick the can on any workable solutions to the border issue down the road for another 2 years ? And they are clapping themselves on the back for coming up with this ingenious plan to move forward with overall Brexit negotiations, as if it’s some kind of success ? It’s going to cost the Irish taxpayer a fortune when the transition period ends with no border solution and the Irish state is forced by the EU to implement customs controls along the border.
There is a lot of un-agreed matter in that draft “agreement” both in principal and practice and until the White and Yellow background text goes Green (agreed) the prospect of a hard border continues…. go read Chapter III Article 4 and more- still no agreement even in principal …. if the UK do not play ball there will be a hard border of some sort.
The amount of anti-Unionist hate filled comments is sickening. And the same morons wonder why Unionists reject a united Ireland outside the UK.
@Adam Reid: But the thing is a a large section of the Unionist community voted to remain in the EU. And it is only one small section of the entire community that are pushing to leave.
@Mick Jordan: that argument is utterly irrelevant. For such an argument to hold any weight it would have to be a simple leave the UK and remain in the EU vote. I think we all know which way that vote would go.
@Adam Reid: I think Unionists should stop fighting the inevitable and embrace a new future on this island with their indentity in tact. No body is denying them this. Its like putting off a visit to the dentist eventually you just have to go, so do it sooner rather than later because the toothache won’t go away on its own.
Perfidious Albion.
After Brexit the voting rights of Irish and British citizens will become a European constitutional oxymoron with British citizens living in the Republic having the right to vote in Dail Parliamentary elections and Europeans like Poles living in Ireland having their voteing rights confined to Irish European elections and Polish national elections. I expect hard right British nationalists to reopen this constitutional situation with regard to the hundreds of thousands Irish citizens voteing in British elections as they tend to reside in marginal wards especially if there is a hard Brexit.
@Peter Sweeney: Common Travel Area (and all associated protections) precede every EU treaty and were reconfirmed in law as recently as 2011. It’s not going anywhere.
Even on a basic practical level it will have to continue. People in NI get to choose their preferred citizenship as such have to be allowed vote with either one in both jurisdictions.
A hard border has been inevitable right from the start MN
A
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