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Catholic group says 95% of their schools don't have a baptism barrier

As it stands schools are legally permitted to select students based on their religion.

Updated 7.41pm 

RELEVANT RELIGIOUS BODIES have given a cautious welcome to Education Minister Richard Bruton’s plans to legislate on the controversial school admissions system.

The Catholic Schools Partnership has said that it will “actively and positively” contribute to a new consultation process but claims that the “vast majority of Catholic schools accept all applicants”.

As it stands schools are legally permitted to select students based on their religion. With 96% of Irish schools being run by a religious patron, this means that non-religious children can be denied access to their local school under the so-called ‘baptism barrier’.

This morning the Minister set out four possible approaches for discussion:

  • A ‘catchment area’ approach which would prohibit religious schools from giving preference to children of their own religion who live outside the catchment area ahead of non-religious children who live inside the catchment area.
  • The ‘nearest school rule’ which would allow religious schools to give preference to a religious child only where it’s that child’s nearest school of that religion.
  • A quota system which would allow a religious school to set aside a certain number of places for children of its own religion and the remaining places would be allocated on proximity to the school or a lottery.
  • Or an outright prohibition on religious schools using religion as a factor in admissions.

The Minister for Education said, “It’s time for a solution. Young people are marrying completely outside the denomination of religion where we have 96% denominational schools so there’s clearly an issue but we have to deal with this on a number of streams.

One is we have to offer more choices – more schools that are either non-denominational or multi-denomination. We need to make sure that children who are a minority within that school get properly and fairly treated within the school … we also need to deal with fair rules for denominational schools admitting children that doesn’t unfairly discriminate against a parent who lives in the locality.

The Education Minister says he is inviting submissions following the announcement of his plans and, pending further consultation, he is aiming to move towards ‘detailed decision making’ in June.

Education Equality says it is concerned that the announcement of public consultation is a worrying indication that progress will be further delayed. Education Equality Chairperson Sarah Lennon said:

Three of the four proposals laid out by Minister Bruton continue some form of religious discrimination and only option four, an outright ban on religion being used as a factor in admissions will remove the discrimination.

However the Minister said the consultation will be “short and sharp” adding, “the Oireachtas said June is the period when there will be a legislative move in this area … my view is that we have a confidence and supply agreement for three years and we will comfortably deal with this issue in that period”.

Frustrated 

The Minister made the announcement at an EQUATE press conference this morning where parents and teachers turned up to hear what was being suggested.

One teacher told the conference that he believes the Minister’s suggestions would be detrimental to religious schools that aren’t Catholic – describing how children come for miles around to make up a Church of Ireland school in Drogheda and that these plans would destroy such schools.

Meanwhile, a mother told the Minister that she had a very difficult time finding school places for her twin girls because she is non-religious and that she had to move to a different area to get places. She added that she is still concerned that something could change before her girls start school.

EQUATE is a children and family rights organisation which works for greater equality in primary and second level schooling in Ireland.

New research by the campaign group shows that almost one in four parents of children of school-going age would not have baptised their child if they didn’t need it to gain entry to their local school.

Speaking about the findings EQUATE Executive Director, Michael Barron said,

 It is really not acceptable in a modern, pluralist society that parents feel they have no choice but to baptise their child in order to ensure access to a publicly funded school.

“There is an opportunity to make the reforms happen alongside the Admission to Schools Bill which is currently going through the Dáil. We believe that the Oireachtas has the power and ability to legislate for the end of the Baptism Barrier in the coming year.”

Speaking on Morning Ireland on RTÉ 1 this morning Bruton said, “A parent who lives next door to a school is rightly frustrated if a child from 10 miles away gets religious preference over their child.

I don’t believe it’s satisfactory that parents are having to baptise their children, even if they don’t believe in the ethos of the religion, in order to copperfasten their position, but equally I recognise that it’s desirable that people have the ambition to bring up their child in their own faith.

Cautious welcome

The Catholic Schools Partnership welcomed the minister’s consultation period, saying that “education policy must be carefully thought through”.

It claimed that, for most of its schools. students are not selected based on religion:

The fact is that be baptised is not a criterion for entry into a Catholic primary school which is not oversubscribed.  Anecdotal evidence suggests that the number of Catholic primary schools that are oversubscribed is low, estimated to be between 4% and 5%.

There was a similar caution welcome from the  the Church of Ireland Board of Education (CIBE).

The group said that it was “grateful” to the minister for highlighting the issue but that the role of religious minority must be respected.

“The ability of religious minority schools to continue the key role they play in educational provision in modern Irish society is vitally important to safeguard,” CIBE said in a statement.

Church of Ireland and Protestant schools at primary and second level exist to serve their students who are entitled to receive their primary and second level education within an ethos that is conducive to their own beliefs.

- With reporting by Rónán Duffy

Read: “It’s not something that should be up for vote” – can the problem with religion in Irish schools be solved?>

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260 Comments
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    Mute Mary Cullinane
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 6:35 PM

    Seems like FG are worried, why don’t they concentrate on telling people why they should vote for Gay Mitchell instead of telling us why we shouldn’t vote for Martin McGuinness, then again maybe they can’t come up with any good reason as to why we should actually vote for Gay Mitchell!!!!

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    Mute Burned Toast
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 6:43 PM

    Because he’s not an alleged terrorist is good enough for me.

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    Mute Barry R.
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 11:15 PM

    I agree with y

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    Mute Barry R.
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 11:16 PM

    I agree with you Burned, but I would say he is not an ‘alleged’ terrorist, he is a CONVICTED terrorist.

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    Mute Sean C
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    Oct 4th 2011, 7:03 AM

    I very much doubt that, if a person is convicted of a crime that results in 12 months or more imprisonment they can’t serve in any British parliament. He is, or was, Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland.

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    Mute Ben English
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 6:37 PM

    What an absolute idiot. Fine Gael have it lost before it’s even begun!

    187
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    Mute Seamus Ryan
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 6:54 PM

    When he labels his twitter account as “govchiefwhip” (and he has), he’s speaking as the government chief whip when he tweets.

    I expect better from the government chief whip speaking as the government chief whip. Particularly when he’s also Minister of State for anything.

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    Mute Lorcan O'Neill
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 7:30 PM

    well said. Seamus!

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    Mute Unitedpeople Ireland
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 7:57 PM

    So as a minister of state – he actually stating that he and they can say anything now without proof?
    Is this a new policy by the Irish government that a person is no longer innocent until proven guilty?

    WOW – just WOW!

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    Mute Helen Gallagher
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 8:00 PM

    He should be sacked,has Inda got the back bone to do it.

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    Mute DubDon
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 6:40 PM

    Oh oh that’s not good!!! Now Paul did Inda not warn you about the dangers around gettin ur twitter in a fix.., you can’t be saying things like that about other people just because your own candidate is worse than a cardboard cutout. Jesus between Kehoe and the Brut Phil Hogan they are walking votes over to McGuinness…

    As I said before FG completely bereft of ideas or forward planning for Ireland so all they can do is spit the dummy and try to slur other candidates. Think FG is getting too big for their boots only a couple of months in power and they are carrying on like this…

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    Mute Ailís McKernan
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 6:56 PM

    Isn’t it funny how Fine Gael coordinate their character assassinations just in time for the Sunday papers, ensuring Gay gets at least some spotlight, because let’s face it, without being a negative parasite leeching on MMcG’s candidacy, no one would give him a second thought.

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    Mute Gleann Doherty
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 6:35 PM

    Same old same old.

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    Mute AlexGogan
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 6:40 PM

    I think he is taking his position literally. Don’t you just love politicians.

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    Mute Páid Ó Donnchú
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 7:53 PM

    I think Higgins will win, as do the bookies. But if McGuinness does win, I expect Kehoe, Shatter and a few others to immediately resign from Government.

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    Mute eugene doherty
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 8:28 PM

    Let’s hope so, blue shirt Simpletons

    56
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    Mute Unitedpeople Ireland
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 8:32 PM

    I will expect the whole government to resign to be honest, if they pursue this policy of “No longer innocent until proven guilty!”

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    Mute AlexGogan
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 8:36 PM

    Oh god now your tempting me to vote a certain way just to see them and hear their speeches of praise.

    And they would have to after all we are talking about the head of state here.

    Damn, why did you point this out
    >:~)

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    Mute Oireachtas Retort
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 7:49 PM

    Desperate attempt by FG to stay relevant in this election.
    They are in for a shock as they find out they were never near as popular as they like to think.

    FF are just very unpopular .

    61
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    Mute Adam Magari
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 6:59 PM

    Wonder how the Northern Assembly Unionists how digesting McGuinness’ unsuitability for high office? The problem that FG and Mitchell have now is that having persistently tried to force the McGuinness’ campaign off the road, their own campaign wagon has careered off out of control on a rally of its own leaving the electorate scratching it’s collective head. Mitchell’s campaign is clearly both directionless and almost washed up. It needs a half a dozen reverse gears to get back to a non-hysterical starting point. Davis and Higgins presumably can’t believe their luck.

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    Mute Jayniemac
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 6:42 PM

    Ok seriously wtf is a chief whip?!

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    Mute Dermot Keady
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 7:20 PM

    I’m not sure what a chief whip is but for saying that and brazenly admitting it he should have to step down in shame.

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    Mute Sean C
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 9:00 PM

    He’s the Government’s coordinator & enforcer, he carries the parliamentary equivalent of a length of rubber hose in his back pocket to whip TD’s into line. He makes sure TD’s are in the Dail for crucial votes, he provides the Dority Dixers, and chooses which TD’s ask them, he chooses the spear-chuckers and provides them with spears to chuck at the opposition, he provides the dirt sheets (aka shit sheets) to use against opposition members, he provides the standard responses so everyone is on the same page. In an election his job is to identify the opposition candidate who is the biggest threat to the government and coordinate the attack on the "also ran" such as MMcG who’s preference flows will do the most damage to the government’s candidate. The fact that he did the attacking himself shows how bad their candidate is doing in party polling and focus groups.

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    Mute ian
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    Oct 4th 2011, 8:00 AM

    sean c
    found ur definition v interesting. u should write a blog on the dAIL which is in plain english.. u could sign me up for following it… well done

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    Mute Eddie Barrett
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 9:37 PM

    The Blueshirt Fascists are still alive and still promoting their message of hate , lies and division in Ireland !

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    Mute Eddie Barrett
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 9:50 PM

    I must add though that not all Fine Gael Members or supporters share these extremist fascist type attitudes – talked to some Members today who are totally ashamed of all their put downs and lies and feel that Fine Gael and Mitchell have completely lost the plot!

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    Mute Tim Kearney
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 11:07 PM

    Fair play to you Eddie …. I am a bit bewildered with Enda Kenny .. I thought he was of the Modern Era .. Mitchell should pull out now before he does any more damage to the party ..

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    Mute Ultramann
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 9:59 PM

    Minister of Hate

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    Mute Ultramann
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 9:57 PM

    It’s tweeted and that’s that.”
    Not quite. One defamation suit coming up.. ought to be worth a bit. Whats the value of an average Wexford farm these days?

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    Mute Tim Kearney
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 10:33 PM

    What a shower of yobs .. We voted them in because they promised us change .. Fine Gael has conned us just like Fainna Fail did … Same old shite .. Labour are the same … Lets have anybody but any of the above .. Shane Ross = Fainna Fail .. Mary Davis = Fianna Fail … Norris = Fainna Fail .. Dana = Fianna Fail …Mitchell = Fine Gael … Higgins =labour … All out for themselves ..

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    Mute Tim Kearney
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 11:01 PM

    Why did I put Shane Ross in with that lot ??? … Sean Gallagher it should be .. :-)

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    Mute Alan Murphy™
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    Oct 4th 2011, 2:06 AM

    Was wondering that myself. Pity Ross wasn’t running this country himself

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    Mute Ultramann
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    Oct 4th 2011, 1:22 PM

    Shane Ross should be in the Me Fein Party. oh i forgot he is already in a party..the Sunday Independent Party. His specialty – attaching women and men with beards. He wont be happy till he finds a bearded lady to savage in his malicious rag.

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    Mute Colin Tyrrell
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 7:45 PM

    He admitted it; so fair play. He didn’t try the ‘hacked’ excuse as predicted by some.
    And let’s be honest.. insurmountable evidence hasn’t been enough to stop others squirming their way out of holes

    20
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    Mute Seán Ó Briain
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    Oct 4th 2011, 2:06 AM

    Serious back-fire for Fine Gael. Smacks of the Lisbon campaign: “Vote for Lisbon or we will lose jobs” – Now they are trying to pull the same stunt by saying: “If you vote for McGuinness we’ll lose jobs”… It’s beyond the pale, and the Irish public will see through this petty nonsense. By all accounts – McGuinness and Robinson have actually been doing a good job going over to the US on trade missions to entice work back to the north.

    I’d be willing to go out on a limb and call this for what this is – terrorism by Fine Gael. They are using fear to try and dictate the public for who to vote for. I’ll tell you who they won’t be voting for, and it’s Gay Mitchell. He doesn’t stand a chance now and you can expect a few people to vote McGuinness now, just as a protest vote.

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    Mute Madeline Angela Hind
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    Oct 4th 2011, 11:27 AM

    @ sean

    so telling the truth is terrorism but being a member of a terrorist organisation. Yet another hilarious definition of the word terrorism by a terrorist supporter

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    Mute Cal Mooney
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    Oct 4th 2011, 2:29 PM

    @ Madeline : So if you dont support FG and Labours view of the world, you are a terrorist ??? I think Hitler used language like that in the 1930′s against a section of the German population … Yes/No ???

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    Mute Seán Ó Briain
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    Oct 4th 2011, 6:16 PM

    Claiming that we will lose jobs if McGuinness is president is an absolute lie, and is clearly an attempt to control the public through coercion.

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    Mute Eamonn Óg Ó Gallachóir
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    Oct 4th 2011, 2:16 AM

    Fine Gael are making some mess of our 22 counties :)

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    Mute Keith Higgins
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 7:36 PM

    Why go on about it they have already decided who will win the puppet race anyway!!! lick the hole’s of county council’s to get in then your still on a string doing favours of those that got you in the first place why have such a high paid puppet for a mascot. Piss more money away go on as if there is not enough money waisted on that useless shower of f**k Witt’s already in the d…… why not have another big look in the courts on Did mcguinness get involved with the robbery or NOT f**k it let do it and really put this country back looking for soup again only we’ll have the spuds to go with it this time

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    Mute Madeline Angela Hind
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    Oct 3rd 2011, 7:48 PM

    brave man mr Kehoe.

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    Mute James Quirke
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    Oct 4th 2011, 12:46 AM

    If in the unlikely event McGuinness actually does win this election won’t the relationship between them be slightly awkward and frictional?
    Surely to this point these government ministers and representatives should remain neutral in their official capacity during an election campaign?

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    Mute Eddie Barrett
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    Oct 4th 2011, 9:18 AM

    Jim Mitchell from this moment will be working for all the People of Ireland ( in the 22 Counties presumably ) and obviously not the People of The Six Counties – as our current President has so phenomenally done so.
    So I presume that the other four Counties to be excluded by him will include my County of Kerry , probably Louth , Donegal and anywhere else that have SF TD’s.
    After all , if he is elected – he is going to be INFORMING us all on what he knows about SF and The North , as he stated – and that for a Fine Gael politician , is in truth – not a lot .

    Time for you Mr Kehoe to resign from your post ! You have disgraced yourself ! and I’m looking foreword to seeing your Vote in Republican Kerry AND elsewhere Jim !!!

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    Mute Ken Mc Fadden
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    Oct 4th 2011, 1:10 PM

    Eddie you being smart about someone making a slip about 22 v 26 counties, except your not above it yourself, Jim Mitchell is dead, his brother GAY MITCHELL is running for president.

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    Mute Niamh McGaley
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    Oct 4th 2011, 12:54 PM

    He should be made resign for this. If he posted from his own twitter account, then it’s his personal opinion, but using the @GovChiefWhip account, and openly admitting that he posted using this account (it wasn’t hacked) – he should be sacked from the government.
    Enda and others stood for long enough on the opposition benches shouting for FF heads on plates over similar things, and stated at the time IF they were in government they would sack the person … now is the time to put your money where your mouth is Enda… Have you the courage of your convictions?

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    Mute Ken Mc Fadden
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    Oct 4th 2011, 3:51 AM

    FG must have done a number of private polls and the figures scared them, i dont listen to Paul Kehoe about that bank robbery, i listen to the former garda commisioner, to Hugh Orde, to our government, to the independent commision to know who was responsible, we are fooling ourselves if we believe Kehoe is not right, be honest even just to yourself. Gay Mitchell is just a dull candidate , simple as.

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    Mute Ultramann
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    Oct 4th 2011, 1:29 PM

    Two short lines with the word ‘terror’ four times. Well done girl. Your auditioning for the Anti-Northern Republican hate rag, the Sindo, is going spiffingly.

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    Mute John Kinsella
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    Apr 15th 2015, 6:50 PM

    Martin McGuinness should go for the best legal people on the island and take Kehoe to the cleaners.

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