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New schools plan 'will reflect more diversity in 21st century Ireland'

The government want to have 400 multi-denominational schools in place by 2030.

RICHARD BRUTON WILL unveil plans to accelerate the provision of multi-denominational schools in Ireland this morning.

According to the Minister of Education, a new method will streamline the process for a school to be transferred from a denominational, or religious, school into a multi-denominational one.

Instead of schools being shut down and then reopened under a new patron, Bruton has outlined a “live-transfer” approach, whereby existing staff will remain in place, where this is the wish of the parties involved.

In most cases, the new patron of the school will lease the building from the existing landowner.

Under the plans outlined today, the government intend to increase the number of multi-denominational and non-denominational schools to 400 by 2030.

Education and Training Boards Ireland, the body who will be responsible for implementing the changes, has welcomed the move, saying that the “changing face of Irish society should be reflected in the types of schools available to local communities”.

“Lessons learned”

While a process under former Minister for Education Ruairí Quinn identified 28 areas where schools should be transferred through amalgamations and closures into multi-denominational schools, only ten of these have been delivered to date.

A statement from the department said that lessons been learned from this failure to convert these schools into multi-denominational ones.

These lessons included the downsides of amalgamation, closure and opening a new school as a model to be followed, given the legal complexities that can be involved.

Speaking on the Pat Kenny Show on Newstalk, Richard Bruton admitted that the current process is “too slow”.

education 162_90500337 Minister for Education Richard Bruton Sam Boal / Rollingnews.ie Sam Boal / Rollingnews.ie / Rollingnews.ie

Under this new process, Education and Training Boards will identify towns or areas where there is likely to be significant demand from parents for greater diversity.

They will then discuss with existing landowners the possible transfer of existing schools into a new patronage to accommodate this demonstrated demand for diversity.

The individual Education and Training Board will then prepare a report for the Department of Education, outlining the levels of demand and the responses from existing patrons on how this could transfer could be accommodated. This will be made publicly available on the department’s website.

Secondly, the implementation phase will involve the “live transfer”, agreed by the local community, of a denominational school to a multi-denominational one.

Speaking to Pat Kenny, Bruton added that while the “patron had to be willing” for a transfer to occur, it may be the case that an unwilling patron would need to be “confronted” with the “reality of the choice of parents”.

Meeting demand

Minister Bruton believes that this step towards more diverse schools in Ireland is one that will be welcomed by parents.

He said in a statement: “Ireland has changed and continues to change. 96% of our primary schools are under religious patronage; only 66% of marriages last year were in religious ceremonies.

While this may not be a direct proxy for choice of schooling, it is clear that there are many more parents seeking multi-denominational education for their children than there are places in multi-denominational schools.

Education and Training Boards Ireland, who will be responsible for establishing the demand for switches to multi-denominational schools at local level, has said that Bruton’s announcement was the State’s attempt to “sensibly and rationally” address the issue in Ireland.

ETBI General Secretary Michael Moriarty said: ”

I hope that, where demand for multi-denominational education is proven, the ETB and the diocese, or other current patron, can engage constructively to provide and reflect more diversity in school patronage which will provide for the needs of 21st Century Ireland.

Educate Together, who act as patron for a number of multi-denominational schools in Ireland, fear that Bruton’s proposals contain “no robust process” to determine the wishes of parents in this matter.

Its CEO Paul Rowe said: “There appears to be no robust process whereby the wishes of parents define the choice of school.

“The wishes of parents must be central to any new approach to addressing the need for change – their wishes cannot be ignored or sidelined.”

Read: Catholic group says 95% of their schools don’t have a baptism barrier

Read: “It’s not something that should be up for vote” – can the problem with religion in Irish schools be solved?

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74 Comments
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    Mute Joe
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    Jan 30th 2017, 10:22 AM

    What does he mean by diversity?

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    Mute Imnotrodten
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    Jan 30th 2017, 10:29 AM

    Dance group from the uk

    195
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    Mute The End Is High
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    Jan 30th 2017, 10:43 AM

    He means preferential treatment for non nationals and gypsies

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    Mute Wayne O'Fathaigh
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    Jan 30th 2017, 10:57 AM

    As opposed to preferential treatment for a religious cult and its members

    126
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    Mute Ó Connmhaigh
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    Jan 30th 2017, 11:04 AM

    @Wayne O’Fathaigh:
    yeah, like Angela Merkel does.
    Great for the citizenry, that.

    116
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    Mute John Fergus
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    Jan 30th 2017, 11:21 AM

    Ah here now, sensible questions like that will upset the morally superior thought police.

    77
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    Mute OpenBorders
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    Jan 30th 2017, 11:56 AM

    Diversity means not cowering like a little lamb because you are petrified that things won’t always stay the same. It’s like when a new computer system comes into an office,the intelligent people adapt quickly without fuss,while the less intelligent whinge and complain and say the old system was better.

    48
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    Mute The_Techno_Mage
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    Jan 30th 2017, 12:26 PM

    @OpenBorders: You’re just trolling by pretending to be a liberal, aren’t you?

    67
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    Mute Ivan Ó Sirideáin
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    Jan 30th 2017, 2:03 PM

    An old old wooden ship

    10
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    Mute Michael Igoe
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    Jan 30th 2017, 2:15 PM

    @Joe: I believe diversity was an old, old wooden ship.

    7
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    Mute Pat Stapleton
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    Jan 30th 2017, 9:04 PM

    @Joe: He means the Invasion of OUR Country.

    8
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    Mute Paul Fahey
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    Jan 30th 2017, 10:42 AM

    This is just typical political double talk and red herrings from Bruton. There are currently approx 4,000 schools in Ireland and 400 will still mean the church’s control over 90% of schools in the country. Given the expected increase in population, these new schools (over the next 15 years) will not even be enough to cater for new arrivals, never mind the current need and demand for non and multi-denominational schools.

    128
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    Mute Thunder Snowman
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    Jan 30th 2017, 11:21 AM

    You hit the nail on the head there Paul.

    48
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    Mute Imnotrodten
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    Jan 30th 2017, 9:54 AM

    Why do my taxes go to pay priests or rabbi ?

    89
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    Mute Tony Hardwicke
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    Jan 30th 2017, 10:03 AM

    Cos You’d Only Waste It On Blow Or Booze Or Somthing

    95
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    Mute Imnotrodten
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    Jan 30th 2017, 10:06 AM

    You know me too well

    55
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    Mute Gary Smith
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    Jan 30th 2017, 10:32 AM

    Where are your taxes paying a rabbi or priest?

    34
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    Mute Fred Jensen
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    Jan 30th 2017, 11:02 AM

    About time. Religion should be something you learn about for an hour a week in your history or civics studies class. The rest of the time should be completely secular.

    86
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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jan 30th 2017, 11:23 AM

    There are 32 death notices in today’s indo. Only 1 doesn’t indicate a funeral mass. Who says we are not a catholic country?

    If you don’t believe me check yourself.

    86
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    Mute Oisín O'Connor
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    Jan 30th 2017, 11:34 AM

    How many of the departed are looking for school places in the next 20 years?

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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jan 30th 2017, 11:36 AM

    You’re point being?

    22
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    Mute Pharmyco
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    Jan 30th 2017, 11:51 AM

    Indicates the religious are dying off

    52
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    Mute Richard
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    Jan 30th 2017, 11:55 AM

    @Tom Burke: I think he means that we shouldn’t build government policy around the beliefs of dead people.

    44
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    Mute John B
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    Jan 30th 2017, 11:58 AM

    Tom is upset that the people of Ireland are moving on from believing in Zeus.

    34
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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jan 30th 2017, 1:02 PM

    Oh I’m not upset.
    I’m just stating facts.

    17
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    Mute Paul Fahey
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    Jan 30th 2017, 1:56 PM

    Tom – in between defending child rapist priests, calling women of Ireland murderers and counting the amount of church funerals in the death notices is there anything constructive you spend your time on?

    26
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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jan 30th 2017, 4:01 PM

    Paul.
    I keep challenging you to show where I defended child abuse and you go quiet.
    Provide the link or shut the fxxx up.

    You don’t agree with my views, that’s ok.

    But don’t lie.

    16
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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jan 30th 2017, 6:08 PM

    We are all dying off.

    3
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    Mute Martin Duffy
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    Jan 30th 2017, 10:43 AM

    What about the money the church owes the state in relation to child abuse. Shouldn’t the church just hand over the schools..after all schools are 100% funded by state and parents with no funding from the catholic church.

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    Mute CeannairBlue
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    Jan 30th 2017, 11:24 AM

    @Martin Duffy: Yeah that makes sense – give people money that had something done to them decades ago – punishing kids now who want to learn.

    Sorry but if 40-50 years have passed, what good is money going to do ????

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    Mute Richard
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    Jan 30th 2017, 11:56 AM

    @CeannairBlue: Ah sure, your Honour, I was doing 150 in a 60 zone, but that was months back. Sure what would a fine achieve at this point?

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    Mute CeannairBlue
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    Jan 30th 2017, 12:53 PM

    @Richard: Not the same thing and you know it.

    Going up to someone 50 YEARS after speeding and banning them from driving after they’re dead – now your analogy gets close.

    5
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    Mute Jindrich Marz
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    Jan 30th 2017, 1:17 PM

    @CeannairBlue: It si the same principle and you know it.

    16
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    Mute CeannairBlue
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    Jan 30th 2017, 1:26 PM

    @Jindrich Marz: Love how people with nothing to say comment by copying a previous post.

    3
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    Mute Joseph Caulfield
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    Jan 30th 2017, 2:56 PM

    @Martin Duffy:
    Is there a sum set out that they owe?

    4
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    Mute Sheila Bedford
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    Jan 30th 2017, 10:03 AM

    Great move we have to move forward a lot of people turning away from religion

    73
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    Mute John B
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    Jan 30th 2017, 12:01 PM

    This will help. I know many parents who got the form from the priest so they could get into school. The church is clinging on to that. Removed that reason for baptism and you will see a big change in the census.

    35
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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jan 30th 2017, 1:12 PM

    Did anybody see the school performance tables yesterday.
    Catholic schools excel all the way.
    Even proportionally, there wasn’t a non denom school in sight.

    68
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    Mute Carl Nolan
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    Jan 30th 2017, 1:39 PM

    @Tom Burke: Aren’t 90% of schools Catholic?

    40
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    Mute Paul Fahey
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    Jan 30th 2017, 1:54 PM

    Tom – can you please list the non denominational schools in the country? The closest to such are thing are the Gaelscoil and they largely out perform all the others including private.

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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jan 30th 2017, 3:55 PM

    That’s why I said proportionally.
    There are none.

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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jan 30th 2017, 4:04 PM

    Tom
    Same in the uk.
    People are falling over themselves to get into the Catholic schools because they are the best.

    23
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    Mute Paul Fahey
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    Jan 30th 2017, 5:09 PM

    Tom – seems less time on religion and more time on maths is required. How can you compare zero proportionately to 4000. A school boy error to try and prove your point.

    14
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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jan 30th 2017, 5:12 PM

    Paul
    You’re gone very quiet on your false accusations.

    5
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    Mute Carl Nolan
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    Jan 30th 2017, 5:23 PM

    @Tom Burke: The reason faith schools in the UK do so well is because they’re selective in who they admit and take in a lower percentage of the deprived students from bad backgrounds. Different ball game altogether. Given the same circumstances they perform no better than non-faith schools.

    Even if they did 100 times better it’s irrelevant. Publicly-funded faith schools are discriminative and create social segregation between religions which is the last thing Europe needs more of right now.

    If there were schools that gave preference to whites and they performed better than black schools I doubt you’d try make the case for more white preference schools.

    16
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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jan 30th 2017, 6:08 PM

    Carl
    There is confirmation bias in your argument which misrepresents reality.
    The don’t ‘not’ take kids from underprivileged backgrounds.
    They prioritise children from Catholic families and these Catholic families tend to be more stable and have less social issues that families of no religion.

    11
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    Mute Carl Nolan
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    Jan 30th 2017, 7:38 PM

    @Tom Burke: So then you’re saying the ethos of the school isn’t the factor that causes the school to be better.

    9
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    Mute Paul Fahey
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    Jan 30th 2017, 7:45 PM

    Tom – they are not false, you are very much a defender of child rapist priests. Now crack on and sue me if they are false along with the numerous other posters who have said exactly the same of you.

    Now would you like me to repeat it again?

    8
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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jan 30th 2017, 9:52 PM

    Paul
    How brave of you.
    There is no case because I could be one of 500 Tom Burke’s in the country.
    So your bravery is bluff.

    No threats are necessary.
    What is far more honourable and descent is to quote me please where I ever defended the rape of children.

    You know very very well that if I ever said such a thing it would be taken down very quickly and I would probably be kicked off the journal and rightly so.

    You also know that if you could produce a link to where I ever said such a thing you would throw it at me very quickly.

    So Paul. Drop the idle meaningless threats. Back up your accusations or or back down.

    3
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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jan 31st 2017, 7:33 AM

    Carl
    I’m saying catholic families from either affluent or poor backgrounds tend to bring their children up in more stable and secure families.

    3
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    Mute epo eire
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    Jan 30th 2017, 10:16 AM

    Do parents get to nominate the school or is it using the census/population/oversubscription numbers and information?

    64
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    Mute CeannairBlue
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    Jan 30th 2017, 11:25 AM

    Great idea – not!

    Let’s all abandon Catholicism, I’m sure other faiths (those who wish to destroy every bit of progress made since 1200) will just go “they’re right, secularism is the way to go”.

    My hole they will.

    54
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    Mute Les Behan
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    Jan 30th 2017, 11:56 AM

    @CeannairBlue: “Let’s all abandon Catholicism”

    Yes please!

    44
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    Mute Richard
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    Jan 30th 2017, 11:58 AM

    @CeannairBlue: That same Catholicism that resisted vehemently every bit of that progress you are attempting to ascribe to it?

    Sure what ill has the Catholic church ever perpetrated on the people of this country? Oh wait…

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    Mute OpenBorders
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    Jan 30th 2017, 12:00 PM

    @CeannairBlue; you’re the kinda guy I wouldn’t put in charge of a pair of scissors!

    20
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    Mute John B
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    Jan 30th 2017, 12:00 PM

    Ceannair, seems to work in the Nordic counties, I’m happy to give it a go. Anyway, if your only reason for not abandoning Catholicism is because other religions won’t do the same, then it indicates that your faith and reason for Catholicism in schools are weak.

    37
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    Mute CeannairBlue
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    Jan 30th 2017, 12:54 PM

    @OpenBorders: Your name says it all.

    16
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    Mute Jindrich Marz
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    Jan 30th 2017, 1:21 PM

    @CeannairBlue: Has not your Pope said that those who are refusing to help refugees cannot call themselves Christians? It is your Pope, the Good’s representative here on Earth. By saying otherwise you are committing a blasphemy.

    16
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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jan 30th 2017, 6:24 PM

    Openborders
    It’s not a pair of scissors.
    It’s just scissors.

    A good Catholic education would have taught you that.

    5
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    Mute Paul Fahey
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    Jan 30th 2017, 7:46 PM

    Tom – from your response above it would seem your good catholic education did not teach you basic maths though.

    6
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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jan 30th 2017, 8:32 PM

    Paul
    Despite my mathematical limitations I do understand that 90% of the schools in the country are controlled by the Catholic Church and there is sweet FA you can do about it.

    You are right about Richard Bruton.
    He is just paying lip service and talking tough.

    4
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    Mute Rochelle
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    Jan 30th 2017, 11:20 AM

    Fantastic to see our society finally moving away from the Catholic church. It certainly took long enough.

    50
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    Mute Angry Gaming
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    Jan 30th 2017, 11:30 AM

    @Rochelle: Be very careful what you wish for. I have no time for the Catholic church but the alternative is 100 times worse.
    I was educated in a CBS and it involved little or no religion.

    59
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    Mute Pharmyco
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    Jan 30th 2017, 11:53 AM

    “The” alternative?
    Yesterday my alternative was going for a jog and then a sauna. Hardly 100 times worse than mass

    37
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    Mute aoife✨
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    Jan 30th 2017, 12:09 PM

    Will the schools identified by the department of education be given the choice as to whether they want to divest themselves of have the Catholic Church as their patron or will it be forced on them ? I’m not so sure many schools would be anxious to give up their church patronage. Also what’s this about diversity ? When I was in secondary school we had girls from many different religions and ethnic backgrounds.

    24
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    Mute MrMammy.ie
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    Jan 30th 2017, 2:46 PM

    About time. Finally moving with the times. Let’s see how it effects the number of baptisms

    12
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    Mute John Flood
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    Jan 30th 2017, 6:33 PM

    Non-denominational? Can’t we just say “public” schools, open to the public? We’re so f**kin obsessed with religious brands. All the more reason for separation of church and state. Of course when you have a constitution that begin with an RC prayer what can you expect?

    10
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    Mute Michael Nugent
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    Jan 30th 2017, 7:05 PM

    This doesn’t even begin to address the problem. The Minister is now planning to pay the Catholic Church rent for school buildings, if they agree to a different Patron body running a small number of schools, while the State also pays for the operation and wages of the schools that the Catholic Church still runs.

    Even if this happens, the vast majority of schools will still be run directly by the Catholic Church. Most areas will still have only one school, and that will be Catholic. And the Catholic Church is seeking to trade off divesting a small number of schools for a stronger Catholic ethos in the vast majority that they will retain.

    The Education and Training Boards (ETBs), who operate the Community National Schools, will likely to be competing with Educate Together to be the new Patrons of the small number of schools that might be transferred. The ETBs will also be overseeing the negotiations that will end up with the Catholic Church choosing which new Patron to go with.

    ETBs are State bodies. The State has already entered into an agreement with the Catholic Church, to have Catholic religious education and formation in Community National Schools operated by the ETBs. The Community National Schools were launched as Inter-denominational Schools. Inter-denominational schools are Christian schools.

    8
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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jan 30th 2017, 7:19 PM

    Michael
    The church own the schools.
    It’s the responsibility of the state to provide schools, not the church.

    7
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    Mute Michael Nugent
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    Jan 30th 2017, 7:04 PM

    There is a lot of refarming here by using new language for the same thing.

    The Minister is trying to rename the ETB schools as being multidenominational. He also seems to be trying to position Educate Together schools as non-denominational, and the ETB Community National Schools as a middle ground compromise between Denominational schools and Educate Together schools.

    The Minister is also now referring to Religious Formation/Catholic Catechesis and Religious Education as Faith and Belief Nurturing. His agenda is to make it all sound more palatable. We are not fooled. ETB schools are obliged to teach religion in accordance with the agreement with the Catholic Church, which opposes objective teaching about religions and beliefs.

    Last week he said Community National Schools reflect international best practice in the area of faith and belief nurturing. He is wrong. He says that international best practice encourages schools to celebrate religious festivals and rites of passage. Actually, it is the exact opposite: that schools should teach about, but be careful not to celebrate, such events.

    8
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    Mute Nixie Goldslip
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    Jan 30th 2017, 6:09 PM

    All of this should have happened years ago.
    This makes Ireland a laughing stock.

    7
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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jan 30th 2017, 6:51 PM

    There should be schools for all faiths and none. The Catholic Church were organised enough to build theirs and now the state want to take them.

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    Mute Micheal S. O' Ceilleachair
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    Jan 30th 2017, 6:52 PM

    The danger here is that this year the parent cohort might want a non denominational transfer of patronage. What happens if down the line a future cohort of parents want to reverse to a denominational or other alternative patronage? The continuity provided by steady patronage has served the country well so it will be interesting to see the workings out of this new initiative.

    5
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