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'No exceptions': Drink drivers to get automatic ban instead of penalty points

Ross said law to publish names of those caught drink driving should be ready by April.

TRANSPORT MINISTER SHANE Ross said he hopes to introduce automatic disqualification for those caught drink driving.

The minister told the Joint Oireachtas Transport, Tourism and Sport Committee that his department has drafted a bill to legislate for the automatic ban, which he will bring to Cabinet next week.

Ross explained that there was an exception in the 2009 Act which allowed, in certain circumstances, for people who were caught breaching the alcohol limit to pay a fixed charge and get penalty points. This law allowed drivers avoid disqualification.

“I find that totally unacceptable,” said the Independent Alliance TD.

Under his new plans, the minister said “nobody will be eligible for that sort of treatment – everybody found over the limit will be disqualified”.

He explained that those caught drink driving will have an option to avoid attending court, by accepting that they have been caught.

But they will have to accept the disqualification.
If you drink and drive, you’re off the road – no exceptions.

“We want the message to go out that if you drink and drive you will be caught,” said Ross.

shane ross

Ross said he is determined to reduce the number of road deaths. The latest figures shows there were 188 road deaths in 2016, up 26 deaths on 2015.

Naming and shaming 

Previously, Ross said he believed in naming and shaming drivers who have been convicted of drink-driving and those disqualified from driving in a list, similar to that used for tax defaulters.

The minister said he is pressing on with that initiative, stating he is also bringing that to Cabinet next week.

The legislation is ready to go and he believes he can get it through the Dáil by April.

Fine Gael Senator Frank Feign said the minister will face opposition from those living in rural communities who believe this move is “anti-rural”.

“I know this is about saving lives,” conceded the senator.

Rural communities 

Ross said there is a difference in opinion between rural and urban communities in relation to drink driving.

“The whole culture is somewhat different,” said Ross, who added that he did sympathise with those that will find this initiative difficult.

I don’t think you can say there is any excuse for driving over the limit wherever you live.I know it is harder to take in some areas, where this culture exists… I don’t believe there are any exceptions.
If you are over the limit in Dublin, you over the limit in other areas of the country.

He said those living in the countryside must accept the dangers posed by those getting behind the wheel with alcohol.

The impairment in driving is the same.

shutterstock_355952342 Shutterstock / littleny Shutterstock / littleny / littleny

Make the ‘necessary arrangements’ to get home

Ross said he hoped that publicans and those living in rural areas will make the “necessary arrangements” to get home safely.

He suggested the publicans organise a local bus or that local people carpool, with one person opting not to drink that evening.

It may be inconvenient but it is worth it if it saves innocent lives.
I understand fully the difficulty this might cause – but it is about life and death.

Fianna Fáil’s transport spokesperson Robert Troy told the committee he wants some sort of scheme introduced that might subsidise a pub’s purchase of a mini-bus.

“We need to be innovative in how we think about this,” he said.

He suggested that a person on social welfare might have their pay supplemented for providing transport to those living locally who want to go to the pub.

“I do believe there is a difference between someone who has a glass of wine with a meal and those that have a bottle of wine,” said Troy.

He asked the minister how many units of alcohol featured in the road deaths last year.

“I think that is something we need to see before you bring forward the legislation,” said  Troy.

Gardaí resources 

The minister also announced that there is also going to be a 10% increase to traffic corp gardaí.

“10% is not enough. Ideally, it is not enough,” conceded the minister.

He agreed with Sinn Féin Senator Imelda Munster, who said people are getting into cars drunk and know they will not be pulled over.

I will continue to push [for additional garda resources].I am determined to get these numbers down.

He admitted that this area is probably the most important brief in his portfolio because it involves human lives.

Last month, the minister announced that car owners who give their vehicle to an unaccompanied learner driver will be held accountable in law.

“I would be massively disappointed if there was a massive delay in that” but the minister said he saw no reason why it should not be introduced shortly

Other issues related to road safety were also raised with the minister such as pedestrian deaths and the risk to cyclists.

Ross told the committee that his department is looking at new legislation that will tackle the dangerous overtaking of cyclists.

Read: Garda whistleblower report will not be published in full>

Read: Calls for Great Famine to be remembered with national commemoration day>

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105 Comments
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    Mute Gulliver Foyle
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:33 AM

    “If you drink and drive, you’re off the road – no exceptions”… if a TD is going to and leaving the dail, they are privileged from arrested: Article 15.13. Any chance of getting rid of this, considering there are numerous examples of TDs driving hammered from the dail?

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    Mute Paul
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    Feb 8th 2017, 4:38 PM

    Yup. Not a Garda uniform lol

    9
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    Mute Robbie Murphy
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    Feb 9th 2017, 1:54 AM

    Sure it wont matter one bit, closed circles and the ordinary pleb pays the penalty… You get what you vote for, mindless idiots with a plan…then a cabinet reshuffle sorts out whom is useless at their job, b4 u can blink.. dont touch banking or investment sector, another inquiry oh the shame(cost)

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    Mute Ó Connmhaigh
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:11 AM

    Banned drivers already flout the terms of their punishment, as is reported many times each year when many of those drivers are caught again for some driving offence.
    This is a step in the right direction, but will need much more effective policing – which costs money.
    Not holding my breath.

    164
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    Mute Gerry McCarthy
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    Feb 8th 2017, 2:27 PM

    Every Garda car should be equipped with an ANPR device to catch offenders. At present our Garda cars have no more equipment in them than they had in the 80′s.

    27
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    Mute John O'Driscoll
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:37 AM

    What about powerful government ministers, like Mr Shatter, who when stopped for a breathalyser test plead that their ”asthma” prevents them from taking enough of a puff to register on the machine? What about other powerful government figures, who claim Dail privilege from arrest in order to get into their cars nissed as a pewt, despite the best efforts of Dail Gardai, whose careers they threaten to ruin, to stop them? No change there I’d say Minister Ross. As ever, there are two sets of laws in this kip. One set that does not apply to the rich, powerful, wellconnected and their political stooges. The other, that applies with full force and quite often extreme prejudice, to the rest of us, who are not rich powerful wellconnected nor politicians. Otherwise, both sets of law are identical.

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    Mute Louise McCarthy
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:05 AM

    Proper order. No excuse.

    117
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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking!
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    Feb 8th 2017, 7:12 PM

    I understand the intent, but new penalties are just a publicity stunt for Ross unless they are implemented.

    Surely an initiative to improve detection and prevention would be a more reasonable approach, and less self serving.

    Also the impairment is surely the main concern, if someone’s ability to drive safely is impaired tjen that should be the test. Depending on the person, size body weight etc….simple blood levels are not representative.

    Surely a impairment test should be performed? Same as for prescription medication or in the USA??

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    Mute Fear Uisce
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:17 AM

    And what about the person who wakes up on the morning after a night out, feels fine, believes they are clear of any alcohol in their blood, get stopped and fail the test. While I agree with the sentiment of the new rule, I think it should be an increased level of sanction for increasing level of intoxication

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    Mute Sinead Mooney
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:26 AM

    @Fear Uisce:
    Unless you have seriously overdone it on the booze, 8 hours’ sleep should set you right in terms of clearance.
    If you go on a massive binge, you should not be driving the next day. That’s obvious.

    96
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    Mute Gulliver Foyle
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:28 AM

    @Fear Uisce: If they fail the alcohol breath test, they can opt for a blood test in the station. If their blood alcohol level is above the limit, they should be covered by this automatic ban – what makes you think that someone’s brain isn’t affected by alcohol by sleeping it off? It’s very simple, if you are trollied the night before you have to drive, stay off the road.

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    Mute Rochelle
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:29 AM

    @Fear Uisce: That persons feelings are irrelevant because that person is not fine and is under the influence of alcohol.They should not be spared of consequences because of their ignorance.
    There are home test kits also for anyone who really struggles with it, if you’ve ever tried one you’ll know it’s very difficult to be over the limit the morning after unless you were drinking a huge amount or only stopped drinking about 4 hours ago.

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    Mute Seamie O cadhain
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    Feb 8th 2017, 12:44 PM

    How would the blood be clear if they fail the test

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    Mute techman
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    Feb 8th 2017, 1:27 PM

    Those kits are unreliable. You wouldn’t want to be driving just because such kits said you were fine

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    Mute Gulliver Foyle
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    Feb 8th 2017, 2:01 PM

    If you had ten pints, then went onto shots at 2am and need a kit to tell you that you’re not safe to drive 5 hours later, then it’s in all our interests to have an automatic ban.

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    Mute Stephen Hynes
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:05 AM

    About time

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    Mute Trump Re[Loaded]
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    Feb 8th 2017, 7:50 PM

    @Stephen Hynes: We need Bans, the more BANS the better!

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    Mute Stephen Duffy
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    Feb 8th 2017, 12:07 PM

    This Government consistently opts for harsher penalties as a substitute for proper enforcement. They appear to want all laws to be self-enforcing. The level of traffic violation enforcement remains pathetic..

    64
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    Mute Jimmyjoe Wallace
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:07 AM

    Proper order too. Just give penalty points the first time and they’ll only repeat offend, maybe with disastrous consequences second time around. Of course that well known publican Jackie Healey Rea has come out against the change already. Muppet.

    61
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    Mute Fear Uisce
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:12 AM

    Jackie healy rae has been dead a few years now, hard for him to be coming out against it from the grave

    81
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    Mute Jimmyjoe Wallace
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:15 AM

    Whoops! I meant the son Michael.

    33
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    Mute Mahmoud O'Connell
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:18 AM

    Who’s the Muppet joe?

    29
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    Mute Leon Fuddy
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:20 AM

    @Fear Uisce: ah but it probably caused him to turn

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    Mute Martin Ryan
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    Feb 8th 2017, 12:10 PM

    only TDS and the garda can drink drive and get away with it , the very people who are making and enforcing the law which makes a complete mockery of it.

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    Mute Fiona Fitzgerald
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    Feb 8th 2017, 10:17 PM

    I don’t look to our politicians to set us a good example, so how about not doing it. Anyone drink-driving should be off the road. Good for Ross. Still, hope no drunken eejit gets up in court claiming that he drove drunk to protest against inequality in our society. Because that would be so credible.

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    Mute Soupy Norman
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:20 AM

    This is great but I’d rather see double or triple the number of guards on the road. If there were a larger Gardi presence on the roads you’d be damn well sure people would slow down and take fewer chances in all aspects of driving. I use the motorway regularly and in my weekly 800km commute I see the guards maybe twice in a week.

    At this stage, people weigh the risk of being caught not the risk of causing a crash. Increase the risk of getting caught and you’ll see an immediate decrease in bad driver behavior.

    57
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    Mute Rochelle
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:10 AM

    A great initiative, there should be no second chances for anyone who carelessly endangers lives like this. If you’re not capable of this level of discipline with regards alcohol intake and driving either the same day or morning after then you aren’t responsible enough to be on the roads.

    47
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    Mute joe o hare
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    Feb 8th 2017, 12:14 PM

    And still no sliding scale. If you are going to be over the limit at 2 pints, you might as well have 20.
    I kno which I would rather share the road with.

    38
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    Mute John O'Driscoll
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:34 AM

    QQ: why is the ‘Garda” in your picture leaning in the PASSENGER window of the car and breathalysing the passenger?

    37
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    Mute Declan Carty
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    Feb 8th 2017, 12:03 PM

    @John O’Driscoll: Because the journo who wrote the story got a ‘foreign’ photo and not an Irish one – left hand drive car

    37
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    Mute Ludivine Clement
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    Feb 8th 2017, 12:10 PM

    I think this is a great initiative. I’ve lost a few friends to drunk driving and would wish that on anyone. The only issue i have is that i have never (ever) been breathalysed since i’ve been driving in ireland (18 years)! It’s one thing saying one thing but it needs to be implemented

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    Mute Jimmy O'Brien
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    Feb 8th 2017, 8:08 PM

    @Ludivine Clement:
    Yes. I have been driving 22 years, and over 8 as a taxi driver. Never breathalysed once.
    The penalty for drink driving just over the limit should be different to drink driving four times over the the limit. They are not the same level of offence.

    19
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    Mute the truth
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:11 AM

    Michael healy rea on newstalk this morning said anyone who fails a breath or blood test should not be stopped from driving until he/she sees can they get away with it in court.

    31
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    Mute Mahmoud O'Connell
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:11 AM

    Worked in a few EU countries- including the UK – where there is simply no defence to driving whilst over the limit. Amazing that it didn’t happen here.

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    Mute Willy Malone
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:15 AM

    Simples. Do not drink and drive. Has to be brought to all. Those at the top also. One slide of hand to let a big name off will have some back lash . Nobody drinks and drives.

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    Mute Michael Clinton
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:13 AM

    Sense at last , it’s about time.

    23
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    Mute Brian MacCarthaigh
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:57 AM

    Unless you know s politician or a guard of course.

    23
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    Mute Patrick Doyle
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    Feb 8th 2017, 2:20 PM

    Totally excessive. Most accidents are caused by drink drivers who have had a skinful. They deserve a ban. A couple of pints on a full stomach would put you marginally over the limit ( maybe) and therefore penalty points is pusnishment enough.

    22
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    Mute James
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    Feb 8th 2017, 12:48 PM

    I honestly thought it was an automatic suspension and points not just points. The father got caught about 20 odd years ago about 50 yards from the front gate barely over the limit and got six months off the road. Best thing that ever happened him as he never even had so much as a pint and drove again. He was of the old school country thinking who wrongly thought a few pints didn’t do any harm. Being caught sorted that out for him. If the points system had been in place I’ve no doubt he’d still be chancing it. It had the knock on effect that me or the sister got such a hop with a guard calling to the door to tell us he’d been lifted that we’d never do it either. We were sure he was calling to deliver the news he’d been in an accident.

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    Mute Paul
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:50 AM

    Misleading article. If a person is found to be over the limit it still must be proven in court. The drink driving laws here are some of the most complex in Europe and certain solicitors and barristers specialise in defending these cases. Why not do what they do in Australia and New Zealand, if found over the limit by the intoxilizer machine the police automatically suspend the licence.

    20
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    Mute Shakka1244
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    Feb 8th 2017, 12:55 PM

    @Paul:

    I guy I know was arrested for drink driving. He was allowed to drive unfettered until the court case. He was caught 2 months ago and he’s still legally on the road awaiting the case. Great laws eh!

    18
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    Mute Peter Buchanan
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    Feb 8th 2017, 1:13 PM

    What ℅ of road traffic accidents involve alcohol? Exact figure please….

    20
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    Mute The End Is High
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:06 AM

    God forbid they are automatically sent to prison

    19
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    Mute John Flood
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:42 AM

    Nobody can get their head around “zero tolerance”, but that’s what it takes. We love to mitigate, excuse, use the “ah jeez…” mentality. Time to just say no!

    17
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    Mute John Flood
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    Feb 8th 2017, 9:05 PM

    Jake, my zero tolerance is for those over the limit. If over the limit you’re done.

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    Mute john Appleseed
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:22 AM

    Should be an immediate jail sentence. There’s no excuse for drink driving. Ever.

    16
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    Mute Shawn Rahoon
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    Feb 8th 2017, 12:27 PM

    So jail those driving a commercial car-van where the BAC limit is 20mg, while those with more than double that consumed driving a private car, where the limit is 50mg be waved on?

    17
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    Mute Nucky
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    Feb 8th 2017, 12:00 PM

    More noises without any real action! What about rural Ireland??? It’s rampant!! And why cause there’s no Gardai in sight. Would love to see the stats on how many have died on the roads outside the cities compared with those within due to drink driving. Why is there also no checkpoints on country roads ??? Closing of Garda stations another ridiculous idea which has swelled the problem too

    15
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    Mute Yenreit
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    Feb 8th 2017, 12:16 PM

    So much for due process

    13
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    Mute John O'Driscoll
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    Feb 8th 2017, 12:18 PM

    I thought there was supposed to be separation between the Powers? In such case, why is a minister seeking to tie the hands of the judiciary and in fact to supplant the process of habaeus corpus by having an accused admit to an offence at the side of the road to a policeman and thereafter have a penalty normally only imposed by courts after trial automatically given them? As a victim of a drunk driver who put me in hospital for a year almost as a kid, I’m not standing up for them, but for the Separation of Powers that are inherent to any democratic state. I perceive scope creep here Minister, as ever of course under the guise of ”keeping us secure”.

    13
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    Mute Steve B
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    Feb 8th 2017, 12:44 PM

    @John O’Driscoll: The judiciary don’t make the laws, they only apply them. The Dáil creates the laws.

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    Mute John O'Driscoll
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    Feb 8th 2017, 1:49 PM

    @Steve B: Yeah. I’m aware of that. Sort of why I asked the question why is Minister Ross trying to make the Gardai into some sort of judge jury and executioner? No way would I accept an automatic driving ban just because some cop’s breathalyser (which is only an indicator, no way an objective scientific test, that’s for the alkalyser back at the station) said I’d a tincture of ETOH on my breath from eating a wine gum or whatever. Essentially, this is like prescribing minimum tariffs for crimes, which asides from murder we don’t, tying judges’ hands as they do and blurring the lines between legislature and judiciary.

    7
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    Mute ijlester
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    Feb 8th 2017, 5:54 PM

    What about publishing the names and addresses of sex offenders? Or drug dealers? Or armed robbers? Or burglars? Or shoplifters? You know – criminals. No political capital in that I suppose?

    12
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    Mute Steven Hillert
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    Feb 8th 2017, 12:39 PM

    And they must forfeit there cars as well. As it obviously not getting true to there thick skulls. Then name and shame them.Then hit them in the pocket as well. After all a life is worth more than all these punishments put together

    11
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    Mute Laurence O Neill
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:19 AM

    There is more at it on know someone he only lives around the corner from me and drinks about 10 to 12 pints of Guinness and drives home then

    11
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    Mute Rochelle
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:36 AM

    You should report him, he’s endangering lives.

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    Mute lez ferguson
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    Feb 8th 2017, 2:06 PM

    Xmas 2016 showed us that drink driving is still acceptable in this country. Would u get in a aircraft if the pilot was drinking. As for mobile phones. Bring the points up to 6 with a €500 fine.

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    Mute joe o hare
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    Feb 8th 2017, 12:18 PM

    Getting sick of this constant talk about using mobiles, it is not the act of holding the phone to your ear(or mouth strangely I see it everyday) that is the problem although that is the offence. The problem is engaging in a call or whatever that takes your attention off the road.

    11
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    Mute John Campbell
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    Feb 8th 2017, 2:46 PM

    Whilst agreeing with the general intent of this proposed legislation I would cynically pose the question about Minister Ross’s bona fides in introducing it just now.
    He has been singularly way under the radar since becoming Minister. The likelihood of a devastating bus strike and the demise of Bus Eireann is looming and he refuses to engage in helping to find a solution.
    I suspect that this is an attempt by him to tray and gain some relevance and of course he chose an obvious issue by which to do so.

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    Mute JohnBeeRyan
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:14 AM

    Why can’t we just ban them from drinking?

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    Mute Wesley Moore
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    Feb 8th 2017, 5:45 PM

    @JohnBeeRyan: It has worked great in the passed and the same model has ridden our streets of any drugs too. Marvelous!

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    Mute Steve B
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    Feb 8th 2017, 12:46 PM

    Won’t change anything, they’ll just say they didn’t get the notice in the post and it’ll be thrown out of court. If, however, they change to using registered post, then they should also force a re-sit of the driving test for anyone convicted.

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    Mute Kevin Slater
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    Feb 8th 2017, 12:28 PM

    Some lad in a cap on now whinging about how “rurl ireln” should be exempt.

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    Mute Shawn Rahoon
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    Feb 8th 2017, 1:46 PM

    Who is this lad in a cap and exempt from what?

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    Mute conriel
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    Feb 8th 2017, 12:05 PM

    Drinking alcohol and taking Drugs then using a vehicle should never happen, I can say from experience I have seen close calls and accidents more from people using phones. The stats show drinking alcohol as the lesser however it still a major contributor to road deaths,
    If this proposal goes ahead it will cause more issues for rural isolated Ireland, the current drink driving laws have had a huge effect on life and business in rural Ireland.
    Using a phone should come under the same rule as drinking or taking drugs while driving.

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    Mute Karen Delaney
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    Feb 8th 2017, 2:24 PM

    About time. There should be no limit. If you have one drink you’re over the limit. No ambiguity there simple as.

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    Mute John O'Driscoll
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    Feb 8th 2017, 5:30 PM

    @Karen Delaney: define ”one drink”. What type of drink? What size glass or bottle? How many swallows? What BMI? What gender? What age? Liver trouble? Ethnic origin (some ethnic groups have dehydrogenase deficiency and ETOH hits them far harder than others)? See? Lots of ambiguity. The only thing ”simple” is your pov.

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    Mute John O'Driscoll
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    Feb 8th 2017, 5:31 PM

    @John O’Driscoll: And Minister Ross’s. But we know he’s just trying to distract us from all the stuff he HASN’T been able to handle. Storm in a pintglass. No. A sherry glass sorry minister I know yer of delicate sensibilities.

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    Mute conair
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    Feb 8th 2017, 4:54 PM

    So you have a pint your over limit?the time they bring you to station and do all the things they do it will have left your system no?

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    Mute Marcus Bale
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    Feb 8th 2017, 12:29 PM

    Should be f@cked into mount jot for a month as well the diccs

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    Mute Soupy Norman
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    Feb 8th 2017, 1:16 PM

    @Marcus Bale: Put down that pint.

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    Mute Marcus Bale
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    Feb 8th 2017, 1:39 PM

    Soupy I’ll be fine I’ve only had the 6

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    Mute Gus Dennis
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    Feb 8th 2017, 1:03 PM

    Maybe instead of banning them, they should be executed!

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    Mute Noel
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    Feb 8th 2017, 5:09 PM

    Ross will be driving his own car as a private citizen soon and he will say what the fuk did i did not even one gin and tonic

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    Mute Joseph Dempsey
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    Feb 8th 2017, 6:32 PM

    Shane Ross has proven to be an abject disappointment. He seems to think his brief is tiresome and a distraction, this latest initiative is just a headline grabbing exercise. Whist I agree with the notion of zero alcohol, it’s a sure bet it will face legal challenges. Very telling however was rural td’s questioning the initiative at the committee hearings today.

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    Mute Maurice Dodd
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    Feb 8th 2017, 11:17 PM

    Except if you are one of the multiple of gurds who drive pissed get caught and get off..

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