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A UNION REPRESENTING teachers has played down reports that the Revenue has launched a probe into undeclared fees for after-school grinds, describing it as not a “widespread issue”.
A spokesperson for the Association of Secondary Teachers in Ireland said there are only “very few” teachers who have other work outside school hours, adding she did not believe undeclared income was common in the sector.
“I don’t think it’s a widespread issue,” ASTI spokesperson Gemma Tuffy said. “There are very few teachers engaged in other work.”
The Irish Daily Mail reported this morning that the Revenue Commissioners are investigating close to 200 teachers suspected of not declaring fee income from after-school grinds.
But Tuffy said 200 was a “very small number out of 60,000 teachers.” She said ASTI would not have direct involvement in the tax affairs of its members, but stressed:
We would always advise our members to ensure that their tax affairs are in order, to recognise whether they are underpaying or overpaying. We would have advised them that if they are engaging in any work outside teaching, there could be tax implications.
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I know loads of teachers who give grinds. I could probably think of twenty or so on my own.
simple , every maths,physics teacher in the country is giving grinds ,loads more too , but evereyone knows it
I wish my foxy maths teacher had grinded me…cor blimey squared
Boo Hoo Reada , you’ve being do the same for me for months ;-) , I did read the comments and you said you would pull your teeth out rather than report tax evasion. Of course I’m “Paraphrasing” to extract the meaning for your statement, now that what i call implicit support for the black economy, discuss?. Come your all always on banging on about your socialist agenda. Comment on the savaging of services in the community to protect wages of the “relatively” well off ( ill explain before you get pedantic, relative to 450,000 unemployed , to carers , those working on community schemes . So don’t mind your emotive “Class war “ crap , I am well paid ,well educated, pay lot of tax , in fact I pay for everything but I come from a real working class background where my father was trade man for 40 years until the calamity of the last couple of years . We all know this government are cowards afraid to take on the vested interests whilst savaging the low paid & marginalised population cause they don’t vote and we have you talking crap about blind eyes to tax evasion, its time to put away tour Che guevera T-shirts and start looking around you
Absolute bullshit! add a few 0′s to that figure and might be a bit more accurate. Teachers are making an absolute fortune out of grinds and not paying a cent of tax on it.
You should report them if this is true.
A few is usually 3 or more, so you think 200,000 teachers (out of a total of 60,000) are doing grinds?
Maybe you need a grind or two yourself!
Or, heavens forbid, someone on the Internet is commenting on something they know absolutely nothing about
And failing to adequately educate
Students during school term
Sluazcanal. I would rather pull out my own teeth than report a fellow citizen to these greedy bastards.
I know who I feel like reporting. This government to their voters who thought they voted for change. (Not a teacher. PAYE worker. Private sector)
Reada….it’s not often we agree on things but I’m with you on this one !
Reada, nice to see u extolling the virtues of a reduced tax economy! Now if only you could see your way to balancing that with reducing spending…
Live in hope :)
Ah Jim. I hope you regret your comment by now if you read below where I love paying tax. [Cross face]
BTW Can I take your cheeky smile as a sign up? You’ve obviously heard of my NYR. It’s to turn all you crazy capitalist conservatives into lefty liberal lovelies.
Easy. Lmk when it’s back on with Ted. They can’t tax my sense of humour. ;)
Reada….need you to help mend things between us….so you’ll have to talk to Ted…..just think of the Pippa bridesmaid dress that you might never get to wear !!
Easy. I’ll speak to him. I promise. Especially now you’ve paid your wedding planner an’ all. He has to forgive you for that slight complication that is a husband. I’ll get onto it in the morning. I am a bit of a romantic after all and now romantic Ireland is stirring… :-)
So Reada support the black economy, the black economy is DETREMENTAL to the economy in general. Simple, Less Taxes = less services and since this government is so intent on protecting civil/public pay rises in the form of (increments), guess what? Services i.e. , health ,education are savaged even more and your nonsensical populist BS stands over it . Remember 80% of the entire Education budget goes on paying wages and can’t be touched because of croke park . So get real, you call you self a socialist well try be fair first!
Tensing. I never said I supported the black economy. If you read carefully and try to remember the names of whose comments you read you will see that I said I love paying tax.
I consider it a privilege as a patriotic irishwoman to pay to support Ireland’s economy.
But I repeat that I would rather pull my teeth out than to report my fellow Irish to this government. As a socialist I do not see why we should be made feel guilty for this so don’t even try.
A socialist wanting to pay for a capitalist disaster. Don’t make me laugh!!!
You’ve pissed me off now Tensing. I don’t have any time for this class war but I would like to add that I also go on about a higher tax bracket. (Because of hard work – not priviledge.) This would affect me and mean I would have the added joy of paying even more tax!
Im a teacher, I don’t teach grinds for payment! I teach any student who wants extra help on my own time, whether they are my student inside the school or outside. My additional income as a musician is declared and I pay tax on it. This looks like a typical Irish Independent “teachers are evil & robbing us blind” piece. The vast MAJORITY of teachers I know don’t teach grinds outside of school, and those who do, only do it because they have too financially, or they feel, like I do, that teaching someone who wants learn is a good thing. I’m not a saint but I know plenty of people in the public and private sector who do nixers – and guess what I DON”T CARE IF THEY DECLARE IT OR NOT.
Like!
We are all doing our best to survive & I for one have no problem with teachers doing grinds on the side – FYI I’m not a teacher. I actually had an anti teacher attitude (due to their long holidays & short working hours) until my own kids went to school. Now I’ve a new respect for them, it’s a very tough job & with large class numbers & pressure from parents – I think it’s a vocation !! They do a lot of extra unseen hours outside of school too !! Good luck to them if they’ve the energy to earn a few bob after hours !!
Well said. A nation of begrudgers and moaners Ireland seems to be these days.
What about all the plumbers, electricians etc who nixers on the side. You can bet your left ball they’re not paying tax on them… Who cares?? I think we get raped enough on tax, why shouldn’t people be allowed make a few quid on the side??? Typical irish begrudging witch hunt. (not a teacher)
“you can bet your left ball” classic!
Oh to have a left ball…
Julia you probably have more balls than that shower in government put together
More divisive language!!!
Do they want us all to turn informer on each other now so you can gather as much money as possible for the bondholders, just 2 more weeks to go until we have another disgraceful “flush money down the toilet” moment. They can go and feic off !!!
Agreed. Everyone everywhere makes a few squid on the side. If this pushes grind prices up then it’s totally counter productive. Once someone is taking the piss and raping the tax system it’s not all bad.
Exactly Aydo. Higher priced grinds! Another way to screw us while pretending it’s in the spirit of fair play. Pimps!!!
Meant to say isn’t not is takin the piss. Whoops!
I think you meant to say you wanted a plate of chips with your squid on the side too Aydo. ;)
If we´d all just vote in SF and ULA, Fianna then nobody would have to pay any taxes while we had 2007 levels of spending.
Haha!! Didn’t even see that Reada! LoL! iPhone eh?
That is exactly what they want us to do …..Divide and conquer! While we bicker among each other they are doing their own thing unnoticed … Cop on people
I love how people’s left wing/right allegiences change with convenience. It is shocking to see self proclaimed “liberals” endorsing tax evasion. These are the same folks who whinge and moan about the property tax. So they whinge about direct taxation and they whinge about indorect taxation. And they whinge when the tax take is down and give out that there isn’t enough public money being spent.
In short, shut up and pay your tax like the rest of us do.
I will not reply to certain commentators on this thread or any other thread as they continue to twist and misinterpret my comments to endorse there own egos .I have said what I wanted to say and will leave it at that.
Just for clarity Eileen are you not talking to me because I think your advocacy of tax evasion is wrong or is there some other reason?
Only someone endemically corrupt would openly advocate tax evasion. But you’ve already made your views clear on that.
I never earned a penny without paying tax on it . I don’t like paying tax but I hate paying tax so unsecured bond holders can be paid off and inept retired politicians are paid outrageously high pensions.I absolutely do not mind paying tax so it can be used on health care , education , Gardai, prisons, or public recreation parks etc.. if some one is earning a few bob (after paying their tax) outside of their regular earnings then good luck to them. The rest of you get a grip and live and let live . Are we becoming a police state ?
As I said Eileen, your views on tax evasion seem clear from your earlier statement advocating it. If you want to retract your statement feel free to do so. If you believe that people should pay their taxes, then I cannot put words in your mouth.
My opinion is that tax is an unnecessary evil. It gets spent poorly and not always on things we like. But we must face reality and the reality is that the cause of tax increases has already happened. The government are doing what must be done given how the country has been flipped up by your friends in Fianna Fail.
OK. Now as it seems that Tom Neville cannot help himself
from trying to engage me in a debate will some one tell him
that I have never supported FFailures .Never. I have always despised
what they have done to us as a nation and as an economy.
I do not endorse tax evasion , but if some one already paying
their taxes as a PAYE contributer, and they have an opportunity
to do a nixer and help somebody by the same token ,
then by all means I have no problem.
However if someone is drawing the ‘dole’ and getting allowances
for everything from butter to fuel and shoes etc and they are doing nixers ,
then that is a serious problem.
Mr Neville I have a great response for you but I am tired today so I will just finish up and say whatever !!!
Have a nice day.
Eileen,
I eagerly await your great response.
In the meantime it looks like you are saying “I don’t endorse tax evasion….but I kinda do this time.” I have re-read your response and cannot see how you can be so opposed to tax evasion in one breath, and endorse it in another.
“The actions of men are the greatest interpreters of their thoughts.” – John Locke
In other words, if you endrose tax evasion by ok-ing it in this instance, then one can conclude that this supercedes your comments where you object to it.
I know you don’t like engaging me in debate, and you never answer a direct question, but just this once can you answer. Do you feel that giving grinds and not declaring it for tax is far on other taxpayers who do actually declare tax?
Tom straight answer to a straight question . I would pay cash to a teacher if that teacher was giving a grind to my child. I would not pay over the odds for this service demanded by some private colleges. However I have a son doing his leaving cert this year and his school teachers are very accommodating to him and his fellow students in giving them extra tutorials when and if the need arises ,without payment.
Why quote John Locke ? 17th century liberal ! Yes actions speak louder than words and as I always pay my taxes (P AYE) then that is me sorted . I am tax compliant. Look Tom .People work hard and pay their taxes . Surely there can be some ‘give’ on these ‘non’ issues .
unsecured bond holders is a much bigger issue
All of this discussion is just that discussion ….
FREE JOURNAL MUG! Just spot the mug on this thread. Send answers to Mr Freeman above. Chose wisely as there are a few…
Eileen,
I would pay cash as well, but I would expect the teacher to declare that income the same way everyone else in Ireland declares their income. I can see where you are coming from, but I am just pointing out the inconsistency. Whatever way you dress it up, it is tax evasion not to declare money earned from grinds.
If someone works in a factory or office and does overtime, they MUST pay their tax on that. If a business makes profit, they MUST pay tax on that, irrespective of how hard they worked.
We all know some teachers work very hard and I am all for rewarding efficiency, productivity and results. I’d even go as far as to say good teachers should be given bonuses. However I will not, under any circumstances, say that a teacher should pocket grind income and not declare it to the revenue.
Your argument about bondholders is your best card, but it can be countered with a simple argument that if an office or factory worker earns overtime, their extra income is used to pay bondholders. Simply put, not paying tax means that others pay your share.
Ah Tom ….
Now you have hit my ”pet hate”, overtime . There should be no such thing . Employ enough people to do the work or bring in more staff. If someone is required to do overtime work ,then it should be tax free or the employer held liable for it .
We should work to live not live to work, or get reimbursed with a salary to reflect the dedication expected .
I don’t care if teachers do grinds or plumbers do nixers or anyone else does anything else,if they are already paying taxes and contributing to our national income then they are already doing their bit . Good luck to them!
It’s not just teachers doing grinds that revenue is after.Everyone who do nixers are in the firing line.Just remember revenue will present a tax demand up to the reciever to prove exactly how much they owe.
I wonder will this apply to child minders too ?
If I could get away with myself I would.
There were students “interviewed” outside a few schools in Monaghan after the Leaving results asking how they got on and if they got grinds, then casually asked who they got them off. A number of the teachers were served with tax demands and now operate a company to give the grinds.
Not a hope that happened, Revenue don’t have the authority to serve demands based in a few questions
The plumbers and the electricians aren’t public servants with permanent pensionable posts..who get 6 weeks paid leave during the summer…teachers are untouchable though and accountable to no one..except their unions.
Tara. If you think we’re going to let them add “envy” onto the list of the 7 deadly sins we’ve “supposedly” committed – think again. We all know what they want our money for and it’s not for Ireland !!!
What’s being a public servant got to do with anything? I’m a public servant, does that mean a tradesman has a right to evade tax on the basis that he doesn’t hold a government job?? Some of you public service bashers sure do have a strange view of things…..
Like to add I’m a PAYE tax payer and I’ve no problem paying my taxes to pay teachers, nurses, Gardaí, public servants.
But I take exception to paying it to bondholders while services in my country are being cut.
I think Tara might be employed by the government to continue dividing the population. They can forget it.
I never earned a penny without paying tax on it . I don’t like paying tax but I hate paying tax so unsecured bond holders can be paid off and inept retired politicians are paid outrageously high pensions.I absolutely do not mind paying tax so it can be used on health care , education , Gardai, prisons, or public recreation parks etc.. if some one is earning a few bob (after paying their tax) outside of their regular earnings then good luck to them. The rest of you get a grip and live and let live . Are we becoming a police state ?
Eileen,
I agree with you. If people are earning a few bob AND paying tax on it, fair play.
So if they earn money and pay their tax they should really have noproblempaying it. It’s a bit like the furore with regards pensions. The revenue announce that they are going to clamp down on undeclared pensions….and the only people who need worry are those who haven’t be compliant.
Just to clarify, I think everybody should pay the tax they owe. It may have looked like I was agreeing with Eileen 100%, but I mean I agreed with the fair play part but added in that they should pay their taxes like the rest of us.
Everyone doesn’t do nixers to make a few quid on the side actually..and it’s only recently that teachers actually agreed to have parent teacher meetings outside school hours..they’d no problem staying late if they were paid to do speech & drama, ballet or guitar lessons though….I’m pretty sure that’s all being declared too.yeah.
Okay saying everyone was a bit much, but to many it’s a necessity, either to get by, get that family holiday or just put a bit aside. I agree there will be some piss takers but there that’s a given.
How many teachers do you actually know that have the skills to give ballet lessons?
Tara, very few teachers get paid for after school activities, clubs etc. Everything after school is voluntary.
Maybe doing a bit of after school work for free might make up for all the paid holidays they get!
Didn’t bertie declare himself an artist to avoid tax on his book earnings? Don’t see him being persecuted. The pox!
Yeah John. A piss artist. (Sorry I couldn’t refuse an invitation like that ;) )
I did the Leaving Cert last years, and a few of my teachers gave us “grinds” during lunch breaks and after school. Perhaps my memory is faulty, after all those hours of study… but I don’t remember giving any of them one red cent extra.
Side remark: I went to a non-fee paying school, so unless the government was paying them to give us grinds, they did it for free because they took pride in giving us a good education.
Ah but don’t let that get in the way of a good rumour….
Fiachra, obviously you went to a very good school and that is commendable. I think your teachers should have received performance related pay (bonuses) and no right thinking person would begrudge them.
My old school was very poor and the small number of us with ambition all did grinds in various subjects. We had a few good teachers, but some, in particular our Leaving Cert English teacher, was a disgrace. We were “forced” to get grinds and on a very basic level I have no problem with the teachers who helped me getting money. They did a good job and put in the hours. If they declared the money or not, it will be very hard for the taxman to catch them.
What I object to far more is crap teachers actually getting their salaries (albeit taxed) when they are just rubbish.
If we had performance related pay in schools we would kill the “grind machine” as teachers would have a monetary incentive to get the best out of their students. Even trade unions could hardly object to more money for their members.
Every teacher I know gives grinds on the side. Same as Hairdressers do nixers or decorators sign onto the dole on the way to work. There just no way around it. Perks of the job.
Bar paying another civil servant to follow each of them around constantly. (I smell a union forming :/ )
The only one who cares about what money others are making on the side is the government. They are doing the complete opposite of helping people, do people are helping themselves.
I someone is out there working outside of their normal working hours, to make a few quid, then let them.
Those who are earning enough, they don’t work outside their normal hours. If they are, I’m sure their isn’t many of them.
I think a lot of people working 50 odd hours a week in an office would love some extra cash but don’t have the time to be doing Nixers. Because teachers have short days relative to other workers and far longer holiday entitlement, they have the time to earn a signficant amount through grinds etc. Anyone who evades tax should be reported. Of course, I’m sure some teachers report any additional earnings but I reckon there’s quite a few of them that don’t. People need to stop complaining about the revenue doing their job. If you pay all your taxes, then you have nothing to worry about. Simple as that.
Dermot. Divisive language no longer tolerated. Thank you
Neuromancer, just so I read you correctly, you are saying that the only people concerned about tax evasion are the government and the authroities. Am I incorrect in my interpretation?
If not you presumably think that the vast majority of decent tax payers have no problem with tax evasion?
If only the ”Fine Scholars” who are running our country (into the ground) had remained uneducated.
Not before time!
‘Enda & Michael’s grind school’ sounds good doesn’t it. Now f*ck off out of it.
I wonder how many teachers who gave out about “big business, farmers and politicians” will feel slightly uneasy at these probes. Most who give grinds do so above board, honest grind givers have nothing to fear. If this makes grinds more expensive, it will show whether most were tax compliant.
Agreed :-)
@Tom Neville.
I have no problem with someone who works a 40 hour week, and on their off time makes some money on the side and doesn’t pay tax.
If people work more because they need to, then let them off. Some people do their best to evade tax completely, and some are PAYE workers who pay tax honourably and daily.
You know this country is going down the toilet. The country is trying to squeeze every last cent out of people. The people will fight back, and if not declaring all income is fighting back, so be it.
Also, don’t teachers get paid longer than the pupil hours in the schools, because they stay longer. Maybe this time was used to give extra study and grinds.
I would definitely hope that teachers work longer than just face time in class rooms, otherwise it’s even shorter hours than the unions acknowledge.
I think it would be lovely if no one paid tax. I think hard working people hate paying for bank bailouts, and children’s allowance for folks like me, and for dole for those who refuse work and for building projects that run hundreds of millions over budget.
But I do pay my tax because that is the law. If I chose not to pay tax, then someone else would choose not to pay tax and then we would have Greece where everybody felt entitled to not pay tax and just take take take.
Can I apply for the job of following myself around? That way I can claim expenses twice for the same journey.
But who will follow me around to make sure I am following me around……oh my head hurts!
have your say