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Driver who killed mother and injured infant in "micro-sleep" has sentence suspended on appeal

64-year-old Anthony Handley had pleaded guilty at Dublin Circuit Criminal Court to causing the death of a 31-year-old to her daughter in January 2014.

SCC R Woffenden 2 Richard Woffenden Richard Woffenden

A MAN WHO killed a young mother and seriously injured her 15-week-old child when he hit them with his car while in “a micro-sleep” has had the balance of a two year jail term suspended on appeal.

Dublin man Anthony Handley (64), of Whitethorn Grove, Artane, had pleaded guilty at Dublin Circuit Criminal Court to dangerous driving causing the death of Olivia Dunne (31) and serious bodily harm to Éabha Dunne in Balbriggan on 17 January 2014.

Gardaí believe Handley drifted off momentarily before his off-road SUV veered from the road and hit the two victims. He had no alcohol or drugs in his system.

Sentencing Handley to two years imprisonment on 10 May 2016, Judge Patrick McCartan said he was a good man with a blameless record but he should have been alert to the fact that he was becoming tired behind the wheel.

Judge McCartan said he was imposing the two year sentence “to send out the clear message to the community that fatigue must be a phenomenon in the minds of all drivers”.

He also banned Handley from driving for ten years.

Errors in sentencing

The Court of Appeal found a number of error’s in the sentencing of Handley today. He was given a new two year jail term but had the balance suspended on conditions. His driving ban was unchanged.

Giving judgement in the three-judge court, Mr Justice Alan Mahon said Handley, who had had only four hours sleep overnight, was driving towards Balbriggan shortly after midday on the day in question when he lost control of his car and swerved across the road striking a young mother wheeling her child in a buggy.

Eyewitnesses said Handley’s car swerved suddenly across the road without braking.

Handley was unable to explain why the accident occurred. It was initially suspected that he suffered a mini-stroke and this possibility was the subject of intense medical scrutiny.

Ultimately, the medical evidence suggested otherwise and the only other rational explanation was that Handley had fallen asleep. This likely cause prompted him to plead guilty.

Ms Dunne was killed instantly and her infant daughter was significantly injured. Such were Éabha’s injuries she wasn’t expected to survive but she “defied the odds”, according to the court’s judgement.

Sadly, she will grow up never having known her mother, Justice Mahon said.

Olivia Dunne’s sister, Caroline Clinton, described how her sister was a proud and content new mother, wife and teacher, whose life was “complete”. All this came to a sudden tragic end on the day in question.

Traumatised

Ciarán Dunne lost his young wife, has been left severely traumatised, has not returned to work and cannot travel past the scene of the accident.

Handley was a father-of-three and a grandfather. He worked his entire adult life and had no previous convictions. Although separated from his wife for ten years, he moved back into the marital home to be her primary carer. She has a serious illness.

The court was anxious to emphasise that by any standard this accident was a dreadful tragedy with the most appalling consequences for the family of Olivia Dunne and her young daughter Éabha.

Mr Justice Mahon said the sentencing judge “unfairly penalised” Handley for the delay in pleading guilty, “erroneously attributed” to Handley a motivation to explore ‘the depth of a technical or other defence’, deemed his efforts to investigate the medical cause for the accident as in someway diminishing of his remorse and attached insufficient weight to the mitigating factors particularly his role as main carer for his estranged wife.

Finally, Justice Mahon said the net custodial sentence of two years was “unduly harsh”.

Justice Mahon said the possibility or suspicion that there was a medical cause for Handley’s loss of consciousness clearly exercised the minds of his doctors from day one.

A consultant in emergency medicine expressed the view that Handley may have had a seizure or cardiac arrhythmia.

Ultimately, albeit belatedly Handley accepted that he must have fallen asleep and in pleading guilty he accepted legal responsibility for having done so.

He had had, for him, a normal night’s rest, had been to the gym, was engaged in relatively short urban journeys and was not particularly aware of feeling tired.

He had gotten up at 5am that morning, had breakfast and went to the gym before dropping his daughter to a nearby location.

These were routine tasks for him and would not normally be expected to result in driver fatigue, Justice Mahon said.

Mahon, who sat with Mr Justice George Birmingham and Mr Justice John Edwards, said the court would allow the appeal.

Handley was resentenced to two years imprisonment but any unserved portion was suspended.

He was required to enter into a good behaviour bond and he undertook to be so bound. Handley then left the Criminal Courts of Justice building.

Read: High Court overturns €40,000 damages payout to woman who fell on Wicklow Way

Read: High-tech hotel backed by Denis O’Brien to open in Dublin next July

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    Mute JesusMoreBullshit
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    Aug 4th 2018, 9:52 AM

    Most likely those that would not fold the buggy are the ones who most likely don’t have the money to pay fine.

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    Mute BigNuts
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    Aug 4th 2018, 10:01 AM

    @JesusMoreBullshit: serious question…who will hold the baby while the buggy is being folded?

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    Mute Roger Wynne
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    Aug 4th 2018, 10:07 AM

    @JesusMoreBullshit: or to be more accurate…..don’t give a dam about fines as they don’t pay for anything anyway.

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    Mute DaisyMay
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    Aug 4th 2018, 10:08 AM

    @JesusMoreBullshit: I think new buses being built should hold a more space for wheeled passengers. I would always fold my buggie if required but it can be very difficult especially when the bus is full

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    Mute Siobhan Breen Malone
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    Aug 4th 2018, 10:12 AM

    @BigNuts: don’t have children myself but I had thought of that. I definitely think wheelchair users should have priority but I feel sorry for the person left standing holding a baby and trying to fold a buggy on a packed bus while other seated passengers look on.

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    Mute John Longmore
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    Aug 4th 2018, 10:26 AM

    @JesusMoreBullshit: the wheelchair user should fold away their chair maybe

    29
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    Mute Bilbo Baggins
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    Aug 4th 2018, 10:28 AM

    @Siobhan Breen Malone: generally a buggy is folded with one hand. I’ve seen people help of course when it’s wedged. But no one is refusing to fold a buggy because it’s awkward. It’s a bit of a distraction.

    50
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    Mute The Viking
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    Aug 4th 2018, 10:31 AM

    @BigNuts: I have personally got out of the cab and held a baby or folded their buggy for them. Tho there are so many people who buy these snazzy buggies that you just can’t fold on a whim. So you end up getting loads say they don’t know how to fold it. The 161 buses onwards all have one buggy space and one wheelchair accessible space . We allow a second buggy use the wheelchair space, tho I would say if a wheelchair user needs to board they have to fold.They say no problem. Tho when a wheelchair user does come along that’s when some can refuse. Even tho they said they would. Now you could say no. There is already a buggy on and that’s a wheelchair space only, but then you get scolded as its not in use and your leaving a mother and baby out in the cold as she can’t fold her buggy. Catch22.

    74
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    Mute Sorcha Ní Shúilleabháin
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    Aug 4th 2018, 10:45 AM

    @BigNuts: I just thought the same thing. Grand if it’s a toddler that can stand for a second while the buggy is folded but what about a newborn? They hardly expect a stranger to hold the baby while the parent folds the buggy?

    57
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    Mute Siobhán Ni Mhurchú
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    Aug 4th 2018, 11:21 AM

    Any parent who knows that they will be using public transport will keep that in mind when buying a buggy. There’s plenty of lightweight, easy to fold down buggies on the market . Those who don’t buy them and refuse to fold down on the bus, are usually the ones who don’t give a damn .

    77
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    Mute Siobhán Ni Mhurchú
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    Aug 4th 2018, 11:22 AM

    @lochinvar56: then you’d lose your bet because there’s plenty of one hand, fold down buggies on the market .

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    Mute AlanH -AFC
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    Aug 4th 2018, 11:34 AM

    @BigNuts: as I bus driver I have both folded the prams for parent’s and held baby’s while they folded. There is always good passengers who help out when needed. Just fold the pram without being asked.

    62
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    Mute ciaran kehoe
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    Aug 4th 2018, 11:56 AM

    @lochinvar56: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7GxDz30bHo. What charity

    14
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    Mute Mark Johnson
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    Aug 4th 2018, 12:50 PM

    @BigNuts: if not travelling alone with the child, the person you are with would hold the child?

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    Mute leanne nueva
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    Aug 4th 2018, 2:36 PM

    @John Longmore: I’m sure that Mr Bullshit would first have to ascertain if the wheelchair user had paid for the wheelchair themselves or not. Srsly tho, people are generally quite pleasant and I know I’d offer my help but the wheelchair user has first choice for the wheelchair spot, always.

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    Mute Claire Cahill
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    Aug 4th 2018, 5:39 PM

    @Siobhán Ni Mhurchú: When my son was small (he’s 28 now) I had a lightweight McClaren buggy, ‘specially for when I knew we’d have to use public transport. It was great. It’s the people with double buggies I feel really sorry for.

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    Mute Rita Farrell
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    Aug 4th 2018, 11:14 PM

    @BigNuts: fold it at the bus stop.

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    Mute Rebecca
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    Aug 5th 2018, 12:55 PM

    @John Longmore: try folding an electric wheelchair. Or having no legs and try to do it

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    Mute Damian Kelly
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    Aug 4th 2018, 10:07 AM

    Fines won’t work,the type of person who won’t fold a buggy has an entitled to everything free attitude and will refuse to pay or at best go to the relieving officer to get the money costing taxpayers more..just put them off the bus or have the bus driver radio for an inspector who can take their free travel pass number and have it temporarily suspended

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    Mute Stephen Duffy
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    Aug 4th 2018, 11:49 AM

    @Damian Kelly: my faith in humanity and my fellow country folk, whether it be blind or not, would tell me that this would be a very rare occurrence.. can’t see fines working.

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    Mute SC
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    Aug 4th 2018, 3:22 PM

    @Damian Kelly: I am a bit shocked by the attitude here towards people who don’t have a lot of money. Yes they’re more likely to be on the bus with babies; rich people have cars. Yes, they usually have crap old hand me down prams; nice ones cost a lot. I had a crap pram at first because I got it free and didn’t know what a difference a nice one would make. It was an honest mistake and an attempt to save money when I didn’t have a lot. Babies are very expensive and people who are still fertile and young don’t earn a lot. I wasn’t earning enough to do it comfortably until well into my 30s, which is too old to be a good mother. I wouldn’t have the energy now!

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    Mute Margaret Kane
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    Aug 4th 2018, 4:12 PM

    @Damian Kelly: sarcasm at its best

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    Mute Rei
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    Aug 4th 2018, 5:45 PM

    @SC: yeah there are a lot of hateful people in these comment sections. I try to imagine they are a loud minority, or at least they would act differently in person if they were confronted with a poor person. Although somehow I doubt that.

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    Mute John Hagin Meade
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    Aug 4th 2018, 10:21 AM

    An easy way to try out first is to give bus drivers the authority to say that the bus will remain at the stop until the person with the buggy complies with the direction to fold it or get off the bus. If the person will not comply the other passengers annoyance at being unnecessarily delayed would probably persuade the offender.

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    Mute Janet Fitzpatrick
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    Aug 4th 2018, 9:55 AM

    Don’t fine them they won’t pay. If they are ignorant enough not to fold their buggy they deff won’t pay. Just put them off the bus. That’s all they deserve.

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    Mute Ruairi Gagarin
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    Aug 4th 2018, 10:00 AM

    @Janet Fitzpatrick: Won’t somebody please think of the children?

    https://youtu.be/Qh2sWSVRrmo

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    Mute Vocal Outrage
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    Aug 4th 2018, 9:53 AM

    Not all buggies can be folded down neatly, in that the seat has to be removed from the frame to fold down, resulting in two awkward items to try and store, one of which is not free standing

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    Mute Lisa Byrne
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    Aug 4th 2018, 9:57 AM

    @Vocal Outrage: sounds like a minor inconvience to me, not all wheel chair users can take a seat and fold down their wheelchair

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    Mute ConPhoto
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    Aug 4th 2018, 10:29 AM

    @robbie: honestly, try and put yourself in the position of having fully loaded buggy with infant, and one or 2 llother littles ones and being asked to foldup up ona busy possibly moving bus . U gotta unload all the the shopping and baby stuff, hold the baby while standing and fold the buggy one handed. Try that.

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    Mute Paddy
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    Aug 4th 2018, 10:40 AM

    @ConPhoto: lucky for most people, they actually can put themselves in a parents position of having to fold up buggys, try doing the same with a wheelchair user

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    Mute Lisa Byrne
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    Aug 4th 2018, 10:40 AM

    @ConPhoto: but they can dp it, they can stand, it is possible, a wheelchair user can’t do anything, they cant stand

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    Mute Vocal Outrage
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    Aug 4th 2018, 11:23 AM

    @robbie: the uppababy brand of buggies can’t be folded. The seat has to be removed with 2 hands and doesn’t fold, the frame does. Not possible to fold down singlehanded and even with assistance the dis-assembled buggy storage takes up the same space

    20
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    Mute Siobhán Ni Mhurchú
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    Aug 4th 2018, 11:42 AM

    @Vocal Outrage: then if as a parent you know you’re going to use public transport on a regular basis then you shouldn’t be buying one .

    62
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    Mute Vocal Outrage
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    Aug 4th 2018, 12:41 PM

    @Siobhán Ni Mhurchú: not so easy for 1st time parents, you don’t realise just how problematic some of them can be. Pressurised by friends and stores into buying the ‘Infant Travel Systems’ that combine crib, buggy and pram and then once you realise the problems can’t afford the simple fold down variety.

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    Mute Paddy
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    Aug 4th 2018, 12:57 PM

    @Vocal Outrage: the wheelchair space on a bus, is it for buggies or wheelchairs?

    12
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    Mute Vocal Outrage
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    Aug 4th 2018, 1:41 PM

    @Paddy: both I think. A better design would be to have a designated spot for each, optimised for that type of passenger, but that costs seats, which would cause uproar as overall bus capacity would drop.
    Ironically, the suggestion from Dublin Bus has pitched parents against disability advocates when the real fight should be why Dublin Bus are not buying vehicles suitable for all categories of passengers in tandem rather than prioritising one category of customer over another

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    Mute Siobhán Ni Mhurchú
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    Aug 4th 2018, 1:45 PM

    @Vocal Outrage: that’s their fault for being easily influenced. And swayed by their friends and family . Yes you get blown away with all the systems that are out there but you’ve got to practical.

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    Mute Vocal Outrage
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    Aug 4th 2018, 2:47 PM

    @Siobhán Ni Mhurchú: you miss my point, no doubt deliberately, beforehand you don’t realise that those systems aren’t practical for public transport, and the amount of conflicting advice can be bewildering so you spend a fortune on stuff with the best of intentions for your child and only after how much is not practical, or even used, and then can’t afford the practical stuff

    11
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    Mute Siobhán Ni Mhurchú
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    Aug 4th 2018, 5:30 PM

    @Vocal Outrage: people are not that stupid, if you rely on getting buses then you would know when buying it that there’s no way it would be easy and practical for getting on buses.

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    Mute Rita Farrell
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    Aug 4th 2018, 11:19 PM

    @Vocal Outrage: usually only parents with cars buy this type of buggy as it doubles as a car seat. They are not intended for public transport when they

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    Mute Rita Farrell
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    Aug 4th 2018, 11:24 PM

    @Vocal Outrage: because it is meant for a car. The top doubles as.a car seat rest goes in boot. Think before you buy your pushchair.

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    Mute Vocal Outrage
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    Aug 5th 2018, 12:55 AM

    @Rita Farrell: ah, so many experts on the Journal today

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    Mute Rebecca
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    Aug 5th 2018, 1:04 PM

    @Vocal Outrage: they should buy one if there using the public service . What about the disabled who are trying have there life and move around free like everyone else

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    Mute Rebecca
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    Aug 5th 2018, 1:06 PM

    @ConPhoto: try put yourself in a disabled person who need the public transport and freedom to move around like everyone else. Who also what to shop work etc

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    Mute James Mc Loughlin
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    Aug 5th 2018, 6:21 PM

    @Lisa Byrne: Bring back the conductors

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    Mute Liam Ward
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    Aug 4th 2018, 10:00 AM

    What about fines been brought in for Dublin bus drivers who take too long to change bus drivers.the 123 bus is well known for this behaviour especially when one has only two more stops to make to their destination

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    Mute Ennui Kenny
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    Aug 4th 2018, 12:13 PM

    @Liam Ward: I’m not sure but it might have something to do with their tachograph card. Drivers are only allowed drive buses or trucks within certain limits. A driver might be seated on a bus but can’t move off until their rest period is over. If they move off too early they are breaking the law. I’ve been caught out on a few occasions where I got caught in traffic and ran out of time on my tacho. On one occasion I was 3 miles from my depot but had to stop of half and hour otherwise I would have gone over my hours. It could be the same case here.

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    Mute Alan Earls
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    Aug 4th 2018, 9:39 PM

    @Liam Ward: the change over of drivers is timed with the start and finish of their shift, some days traffic and passenger loading can be light and we get there early before the sechudle change over time,

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    Mute Jane Waters
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    Aug 4th 2018, 10:49 AM

    Jesus Christ its not rocket science,bus manufacture’s should be required to put child proof seating adjacent to the wheelchair / buggy slot. This way the parent could secure the child using straps while they fold up the buggy.
    Everything now in this country is becoming divisive. Can no one try to reach solutions without imposing fines? Next thing on which fines will be imposed, is the passing of wind!!

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    Mute Vocal Outrage
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    Aug 4th 2018, 12:42 PM

    @Jane Waters: great idea

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    Mute Colly woggs
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    Aug 4th 2018, 1:08 PM

    @Jane Waters: couldn’t agree more the bus designs are all wrong take 2 seats out and open up that hole area at the bottom of the stairs plenty of room for everyone

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    Mute Vocal Outrage
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    Aug 4th 2018, 1:43 PM

    @Jane Waters: Dublin Bus are deflecting, they are pitching different categories of customer against each other, successfully, rather than explaining why they are buying unsuitable vehicles and prioritising one category of customer over another.

    12
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    Mute Sos
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    Aug 4th 2018, 10:25 AM

    I got the bus last week, had to ask people to move out of buggy spot. Anyway wheelchair spot was free but driver told the dad he could only get on if he folded the buggy first. I thought it was a bit unfair. It was a big double buggy. However after reading this I guess it’s because some people won’t fold their buggy if needs be. A few people messing a system up for everyone strikes again.

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    Mute Kerrie Roche
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    Aug 4th 2018, 6:11 PM

    @Sos: that used to always be the case years ago, had to have buggy folding before boarding the bus.

    14
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    Mute Fat Face 99
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    Aug 4th 2018, 10:05 AM

    There is no excuse, they should have plenty of time to fold their buggy’s when the driver abandons the bus for 20 minutes in Parnell Square……..

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    Mute Ennui Kenny
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    Aug 4th 2018, 12:14 PM

    @Fat Face 99: Drivers are entitled to break periods are they not? Again, look at my comment to Liam Ward. Driving a bus is not the same as driving a car.

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    Mute Ciaran O 'Reilly
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    Aug 4th 2018, 10:42 AM

    Younger children in buggies may also have a disability. Is it safe to be holding a newborn on public transport with no seat belt.

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    Mute Karen Wellington
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    Aug 4th 2018, 10:53 AM

    @Ciaran O ‘Reilly: is said newborn that much safer in the pram (probably not in a buggy at this stage) if the bus were to stop suddenly or take a corner too sharply?

    24
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    Mute Siobhán Ni Mhurchú
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    Aug 4th 2018, 11:29 AM

    @Ciaran O ‘Reilly: if the bus was in an accident or if a fight or a fire broke out on the bus , a child in a buggy wouldn’t stand a chance. It’s a big safety issue.

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    Mute Ben Dawkins
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    Aug 4th 2018, 9:57 AM

    Too soft on crime in this country, they should be given 20 years hard labour or shot.

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    Mute Ruairi Gagarin
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    Aug 4th 2018, 10:12 AM

    @Ben Dawkins: and the children sold to rich American families.

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    Mute Bilbo Baggins
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    Aug 4th 2018, 10:30 AM

    @Ben Dawkins: We’d want to make sure not to shot them before the labour is finished.

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    Mute Alice Palmer
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    Aug 4th 2018, 12:01 PM

    If the buggy space is full and a buggy user wants to use the disability space then they should be allowed to only if they fold the buggy from the start so if a person with a disability gets on that person can still use the disability space. If they refuse to fold from the start then they’ll have to wait for a bus with a free buggy spot. Sorted.

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    Mute Annie Citric
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    Aug 4th 2018, 12:48 PM

    Was on the 31 yesterday evening and saw a driver ask a woman to do this. I was outraged because there was space for parking the buggy (which I admit was quite bulky) and she struggled with a small baby and numerous bags. Two of us got up to help (a woman got there before me) and the buggy had to be put onto the platform area for bags.

    It all makes sense now and the driver was right even though we all felt terrible for the mother. Parents and caregivers will defo have to prepare for more of this.

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    Mute Julia O'Bryne
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    Aug 4th 2018, 1:05 PM

    @Annie Citric: Why would you feel terrible for the mother? It was her choice to buy a bulky pram! She’s not disabled, she’s a parent. I save my sympathies for people who will continue to fight this fight long after her ‘disability’ is grown up and dealing with their own ‘disability’.

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    Mute Siobhán Ni Mhurchú
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    Aug 4th 2018, 1:47 PM

    @Annie Citric: be more prepared ? It was always the way on buses .wheelchair spaces were never for buggies .

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    Mute Annie Citric
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    Aug 4th 2018, 11:22 PM

    @Julia O’Bryne: Chill out sweetie. I was making the point that I agree with prioritising the area for people with disabilities. The Mum understood too. I suspect she had been able to park the buggy many times before so was just caught off guard like many people will be in the future. In fairness, there are signs in relation to positioning buggies in those areas so therefore it seems reasonable that people think they can bring/park buggies on board.

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    Mute Annie Citric
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    Aug 4th 2018, 11:29 PM

    @Siobhán Ni Mhurchú: I disagree. There are signs indicating how to park a buggy. (I’m all for creating space for wheelchairs btw).

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    Mute Paddy
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    Aug 4th 2018, 10:35 AM

    If a wheelchair user needs the spot clear out of it you inconsiderate selfish yoke.

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    Mute Christina Sherwin Russell
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    Aug 4th 2018, 1:44 PM

    Don’t allow them to board the bus unless it is folded

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    Mute Conor McCarthy
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    Aug 4th 2018, 3:13 PM

    It’s been years since i’ve been on a dublin bus but I remember if you didnt have a seat or you were on a sideways facing one having to hold on for dear life as the bus driver took turns and stopped at bus stops on steep hills etc. I wouln’t fancy holding a child while trying to do that especially with other people stumbling about knocking into you or your baby. Never mind your arm would be hanging off you by the time you got to your stop

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    Mute Tony Hanratty
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    Aug 4th 2018, 1:49 PM

    Fines will never work.who issues the fine on the scene,the driver?as a bus driver I know it’ll never work.try calling an inspector and it’ll take 30-60 mins for one to arrive if even.why should everyone else have to suffer by waiting or even worse putting them onto another bus which could be packed which will take the offending persons bus out of service and have a knock on effect throughout the day.thats just one fine issuing incident.imagine if there’s numerous incidents during the day throughout Dublin.
    Transport police is the only solution and that’s never going to happen.

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    Mute Julia O'Bryne
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    Aug 4th 2018, 1:02 PM

    No id, no fine. That was easy. Now, let’s get back to conductors on each bus who dealt with this from riders and other nonsense that goes on on them. Another job created, too.

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    Mute Esther Kavanagh
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    Aug 4th 2018, 1:45 PM

    Surely to God there is a huge health and safety issue with prams and buggys on buses. What are the regulations about seat belts on buses. You can’t just put a baby/toddler at risk.

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    Mute Stephen Hyland
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    Aug 4th 2018, 8:06 PM

    @Esther Kavanagh: All DB buses are limited to only 60km/ph so they don’t need seatbelts which are only required on schoolbuses. Also DB buses have standing space so they don’t need seatbelts.

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    Mute Cranky
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    Aug 4th 2018, 5:50 PM

    Us drivers are afraid of the people who behave like this — they would be attacked on the spot or the driver would be afraid of a gang of thugs at a later date. They use their mobiles to photograph the driver. CCTV should be used and it should be published in papers and social media well in advance so it is controlled from HQ. The Gardai should be called and the people arrested and their free pass taken off them.

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    Mute Stephen Hyland
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    Aug 4th 2018, 12:00 PM

    How is this enforceable?

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    Mute Tracy Dunbar Evans
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    Aug 5th 2018, 2:24 AM

    I hope they follow up on this.Something has to be done.I was getting on a bus after an hour of waiting with my sis who has two disabled children,however only her youngest one was with us that day.The wheelchair space was taken up with two buggies with no children in them, only shopping.The driver asked the women,who had their kids on their laps, to fold their buggies and they refused.We had to fold down the wheelchair before the driver would let us on,and carry her child on.If she had been on her own or if both her son’s had been with her she would have had to wait another hour for the next one and hope that it would be free.Yes it’s hard on mother’s but think of if it was your child left out in the rain in the dark.

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    Mute Herr Wolf
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    Aug 4th 2018, 5:48 PM

    Animals like that should be fined and banned from the bus. Make an example of them!!

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    Mute Nicholas Kelly
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    Aug 5th 2018, 1:17 AM

    Not many moons you had to fold your buggy to get on the bus, now it’s seen as right to ram people outta the way to get priority space on a bus
    Self entitled mentality in full force

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    Mute Kárl
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    Aug 4th 2018, 8:40 PM

    OK. Forget the rights and wrongs about folding pram or not, as the case often is. Ask yourself, who’s going to issue these fines? It won’t be the driver. He’s not allowed to leave his cab to engage with a customer.It won’t be an inspector, because you would need one on standby every couple of kilometres. So that’s not workable. That just leaves the Gardaí. They won’t respond either because they are understaffed and it is not high enough priority for them. So really this is just a paperwork affair for the minister to show how much he cares. Good bless him. The only solution is a space for one buggy on the bus and one space for a wheelchair which cannot be occupied by a buggy under any circumstances.

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    Mute Laura Grimes
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    Aug 5th 2018, 8:42 AM

    I use the bus all the time with my baby. Strollers are great for buses, big prams less so. Don’t be a dick n. Fold your pram or get off n get the next bus ( both of which I have done). A few weeks ago got on the 18 bus & thought crap theres a lady with a pram on already, lovely driver on board told me not to worry to get on. Turns out it was a lady with an intellectual disability with a real looking doll. We had a great chat about our babies and the driver was very kind to her. Anothet lady held my baby while I folded her ( real) stroller. I have

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    Mute Adrienne Lyons
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    Aug 8th 2018, 7:19 PM

    How did we manage years ago? We had buggy folded waiting on the bus and a baby in the other hand and another child minding the shopping

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    Mute James Mc Loughlin
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    Aug 5th 2018, 6:20 PM

    If they refuse to fold the buggy ,then they should pay an extra fare for the use of the space,after all the next pasenger has rights as well

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    Mute Jennifer Doran
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    Aug 6th 2018, 10:26 AM

    What happened to being decent human beings and helping each other with shopping or babies…mums – just use a light quick fold buggy, and baby wont die if fellow passenger holds for a moment.! I travelled with my baby on planes trains buses single handed, and with luggage too,its tricky but not impossible….what a sad society we are turning into babies v disabled…if we all had a little more consideration and compassion this wouldnt even be an issue. Without doubt buggies should be folded for wheelchairs so if mums know they are going on public transport –prepare for it !

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    Mute Cathy Dalton
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    Aug 9th 2018, 11:59 AM

    @Jennifer Doran: I’ve stood on a Dublin Bus while heavily pregnant and in danger of flying down the aisle every time the driver braked, and nobody offered me a seat. Dublin has a long way to go. Why not ask several standing passengers to leave instead of blaming mothers?

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    Mute Aidan Augustus Daly
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    Aug 4th 2018, 11:31 AM

    what if 4yr old kid dont want get of it

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    Mute Julia O'Bryne
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    Aug 4th 2018, 1:06 PM

    @Aidan Augustus Daly: 4yr old kid learns lesson on society compliance fast.

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    Mute Tom
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    Aug 4th 2018, 9:58 PM

    It really doesn’t help that so many people including Stephen Hannan who spoke to the committee don’t appear to know the difference between a Pram and a Buggy/Stroller.

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    Mute Ciaran King
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    Aug 5th 2018, 1:17 AM

    @Tom: Interesting that you pick out Stephan Hannan’s comment as he is a bus driver and please explain “What is the difference between a Pram and a Buggy/ Stroller because I don’t see any difference as to what their purpose is, as in the carrying of a child in a wheeled carrier”which the Parent/ Guardian or respective minder has the option to take the child out of said carrier and travel on the bus as opposed to a “Wheelchair user”who doesn’t have the option to remove themselves from the wheelchair to travel because someone has little or no consideration for other people

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    Mute Cathy Dalton
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    Aug 9th 2018, 12:00 PM

    @Ciaran King: I was so badly injured on my first child that I would have had a great deal of difficulty holding him while standing. It simply would not have been safe. I used wheel him around the house the buggy. I had to.

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    Mute Cathy Dalton
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    Aug 9th 2018, 11:57 AM

    This is no answer. It simply shifts blame to the next most vulnerable group. As a young mother with a badly damaged pelvis, I wouldn’t have been able to hold a baby and a buggy. It’s not like people are inclined to give seats to pregnant women or new mothers either. And remember, Dublin Bus are the guys who went on strike the day of the last March for Choice. No friends to women.

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    Mute Cathy Dalton
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    Aug 9th 2018, 11:56 AM

    This is no answer. It simply shifts brae to the next most vulnerable group. A s kayoing mother with a badly damaged pelvis, I wouldn’t have been able to hold a baby and a buggy. It’s not like people are inclined to give seats to pregnant women or new mothers either. And remember, Dublin Bus are the guys who went on strike the day of the last March for Choice. No friends to women.

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    Mute Dave Hi
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    Aug 9th 2018, 1:31 AM

    Ban all buggies , all have to be folded only solution,, wheelchair only problem solved

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