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FIREFIGHTERS IN NORTHERN Ireland ended up downloading an app with sheep noises to rescue a lamb that was stuck in a drain.
The Fintona firefighters first attempted to lure out the two-week-old lamb by making sheep impressions before turning to technology.
The lamb had managed to find its way into a manhole and then several metres down a narrow horizontal pipe which was several feet underground.
It turned around and came back up the pipe with the noise of the app, but not far enough to grab it.
A local sheep farmer saved the day by providing a trained sheep dog, which went up the pipe and retrieved the lamb and brought it to safety.
A Northern Ireland Fire & Rescue Service (NIFRS) have posted about the task on social media saying, “When we’re round the tea table it’s the ones like these we tend to talk about.”
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Enough is enough, strike where it hurts, cut the electricity to the Dail bar, and the people who are directly effecting the internal ESB pension scheme. Do not cut power to the people who pay the bills.
Dail bar, government departments, the lists is endless. An even better and more effective strike to hit management would be to cut the power to the computers that do the billing. Once the cash aint rolling in then management will soon wake up.
Using the public as pawns in this dispute is disgraceful and I can guarantee it will backfire. I cant wait to engage with the ESB lads on the picket line. Hope they have good security.
Ok so cut off the power to government departments? So no dole payments, passports, salary payments for teachers guards nurses etc. No payment of invoices to business small and large who did work for said departments. No more work on opening up markets to irish beef exports as Japan did recently. No trade talks. No assistance from foreign affairs for Irish citizens in trouble abroad. No work permits for google and Microsoft and the like. No visas for people coming to visit the family members who moved here for work. No Labour relations commission to resolve the dispute either incidentally. No nca to sort out xtravision and the like. List goes on
Only a fool would think ESB could or should cut off power to government departments without it having a massive knock on on everyday life so why would you advocate such a step. It needs to be resolved without resorting to strikes as it’s going to hurt us all if the power goes
Price of power generators to rise as ques get longer. Silent cars pass protesting ESB workers standing in stinking rotten food donated by passerby’s .
@Ronan, there’s not going to be any power anywhere, so mitigate the risk and strike at the heart. I never said all departments, but those who directly have an impact in talks. Every Senator, TD, government official who has a impact should loose power, not you nor I nor the countless thousands whose lives will be ruined without electricity. No electricity = no work = no heat = no food = no water.
Fire the bloody lot of them.
Paul that’s an incredibly simplistic view of the situation. Even if it’s technically feasible to take down particular departments while leaving others, which it isn’t I would think, given that many of them are colocated and share the same grid, leaving aside the illegality of deliberately doing so, you can’t just take down an entire department and not expect there to be knockons everywhere else. We don’t have a “Department of ESB Oversight” that do nothing else. How will taking down those departments that have a direct impact on talks help resolve the situation. Magical and creative as civil servants are, it’s hard even for us to work without electricity.
Who gives a bollox about their pensions? Nobody cared when my defined benefit pension went belly up. Then a year later we were all made redundant. That was tough, but we picked ourselves up and made the best of what we had! This Esb crowd think they’re a special case and are entitled to massive wages and a guaranteed big pension. It’s time they copped on and realised that almost anyone currently unemployed would do their jobs for half and still be well off.
Hold on, the whole business of actually how the power will be cut is not that easy. There is generation and then distribution, the demand and supply are managed by a network management centre, staffed by? are they unionised? the generation and distribution are now separated, and the “old” ESB is now liable to third party suppliers for the distribution of their supply. Not so obvious how it will pan out.
@rodrigo well i’m sure they “give a bollox”. It’s safe to say none of us commenting here no exactly what is going on as both sides are applying their own bit of spin. However, just because something bad happened to you does not mean the same should happen to everyone else. It may be that the works argument is entirely justified and reasonable but crippling the country especially in the current circumstances is not on.
“anyone currently unemployed” is not necessarily able to do their job now are they? It’s also illegal to let a load of works go and rehire others to do the same job for less money, and that protection is there for a reason.
I totally agree, they are whiny attention seeking idiots, can’t wait to live this hell hole of a country
*leave
Distribution is ESB, monitoring is ESB, volt management and distribution is ESB. If ESB workers strike they cannot monitor electricity therefore cannot safely have electricity on. I hope I am wrong, and I seriously hope they have staff that will keep the network up, or is will be a dark Christmas, with allot of causalities.
They would just stay home ….. no bother.
oh its a hell hole of a country daddy de la noche is it …. well im sure we wont be too bothered when you do leave ya muppet
they should not be allowed to strike, smallest pay in esb is 72000 their pension is defined benefit which will pay them between 70%and 80% of their salaries for the rest of their lives, their pension is only forcast to be short for this year and 2014 in 2015 they expect to have a surplass so even if they are short this year and the next it will not make any difference to the small amount of people who retire from the esb in the next 12 to 14 months , all their reps want is a big top up into the fund so they can get a big percentage of it and when the pension funds value soars in the next couple of years they can repeg their pensions to inflation and give themselves payrises all through retirement,
If you stop the dole what will most of the contributors on here do??
Paul. You are actually doing more harm. Scaremongering. But maybe that’s your agenda.
http://europe.nxtbook.com/nxteu/zahra/esb_annualreport2012/index.php?startid=86#/86 check this report less than 8000 workers pay is over 400 million plus pension and tax and prsi 625million they have no right to hold the country to ranson when a huge amount of us are trying to survive on welfare they should be glad of their massively well paying jobs
And John. As for you. Every single word you have just spouted is wrong. Categorically wrong. Factually incorrect. Utter nonsense.
If this is your contribution is it any wonder that this country is as f ck ed as it is.
Get your facts right before pontificating to the mindless gullible masses.
PATCO doesn’t relate. Despite the best efforts of managements, IBEC and the Blueshirts, Irish and European Labour Laws take more account of workers rights than they ever did in the US. That particular union broke a law which gave Reagan the ability to sack them. You can’t fire people here for standing up for their rights when management try to rob their entitlements. I’ll be badly affected just like everyone else but they are right to stand up for themselves. To the people jealous of their salary, no one stopped you from applying for a job in the es.
your looking for support and you call the country which are paying your massive wages , a mindless gullible mass, isn’t that just typical of someone who feels their position inflates their igo to make them feel like they are irreplaceable, plus my facts are not incorrect all the info is there for you if you want it .
Barry,
You are 100% incorrect in your comment.
Third party suppliers as you call them, have nothing to do with the distribution network. They are purely an accounting company trading in the electricity commodity on paper.
All ESB employees are in a union, its part of our terms and condition’s.
ESB networks have the sole control of all the networks on the island of Ireland, including NIE in northern Ireland.
Now for the truth: No ESB employee wants a power cut. Ever.
We all have family’s that need supply just like every other family in the country.
The problem has been caused by the top board in ESB and the government, and they need to sort it out.
Thanks for the ‘clarification’ – doesn’t answer the question of who manages the supply/distribution relationship. Breaking news says the ESB presently only delivers 40% of the load, who delivers the rest and how? If I am signed up to Airtricity the juice comes in over (former) ESB lines, now Eirgrid, but the routing is done by?? I appreciate the accounting is a different issue, but the carrier has a responsibility to deliver the power.
Correct, in sofar as you go. My question, is ESB networks part of this strike? If you read the strike committee statement it implies there will be no ESB generation of electricity after 8am on the 16th. ESB only supply 40% of the electricity delivered in Ireland, so? what happens to the rest? IF ESB Networks shuts down then 100% is lost, but the unions say they’ll ensure health and safety, so sewage pumping has to be maintained. Hence my earlier comment about how it pans out.
Barry,
I already answered the question of who manages the distribution. It is ESB networks. ESB networks owns 100% of the networks on the island of Ireland, including NIE in northern Ireland.
Eirgrid are only a management company for the transmission lines, ie. 110kv, 220kv & 400kv lines. ESB networks are the owner of the physical lines, everything from your meter right up to the highest voltage lines.
Different suppliers only use the billing through a parer exercise. Airtricity or Energia or any other supplier own nothing, they trade in electricity only.
ESB generation supply 40% of the market, the rest comes from wind and independent generating company’s like board gas.
Did you ever hear an 087 phone but the bill was with O2…?? Its the same with suppliers, its a paper exercise.
ESB the company own 100% of all the assets.
You are so uninformed where does this division come from between us and esb workers? First they will come for the esb then they will come for you.
Stop spreading lies. The fund will be shut down and taken in full by the govt and not allow it to recover as you say.
I get a payslip each and every week which clearly states that what you are spouting is in fact utter nonsense. So you can keep whatever bogus study you found on the Internet. As for the gullible masses I think it’s quite clear that im referring to the misinformed and ignorant journal audience of which you clearly are one. Come on here to grind whatever axe you have. Just a question- did you leave the same type comments about the m&s workers striking or do we hold a special place in your hate filled heart?
It just goes to show how little “ESB Staff” knows about the network they work on. Airtricity do not just trade in electricity. Their parent company, SSE, owns generating plant delivering well over one gigawatt peak capacity, with more on the way.
I’m sorry Niall but that’s foolish and childish to sack everyone… Who’ll run the electricity ya idiot ya!!!!! The Government and the rest of the suits are causing this problem among others
I’m sorry john but people are entitled to strike… The government in this country is overpaid as it is. Jobs are being lost, pensions etc are being cut to the bare minimum… They and other before them are standing up to the Government while most of us sit on our arses complaining about certain individuals
It’s our government who are holding us to ransom as well as the rest of their buddies in europe
No, ‘ESB staff’ is right; SSE, Airtricity, Energia, etc own generation assets & trade electricity but ESB own 100% of the transmission/distribution networks (managed by Eirgrid) between those generation assets and the consumer.
Anyway, these transmission/distributions networks will not be effected (ESB will carry out emergency repairs on these during the strike if needed), it’s only ESB’s generation that will shutdown; leaving a shortfall in supply for the country. Eirgrid will manage this shortfall by shutting off portions of the country (and moving this around to share the pain) to match the available generation. It will fall to Eirgrid to manage the consequences of this strike by shutting choosing/managing/shifting these blackouts of non-essential consumers i.e. the normal household and retail/SME; Hospitals and certain large industry will maintain supply.
Do you think gov employees give a shite, they will get paid no matter what.
These overpaid electricians need a wake up call. They have every benefit that man can imagine. Ave wage over €70k are you kidding me. We in the real world can only dream of those wages and benefits they get from our tax. Then hold the whole country to ransom because someone are their cake!!!! Sack them all and they would have a full compliment of decent workers in the morning willing to work for half their wages.
Dead right dennis
Funny the way money could be made available to fix “issues” in the pension of AIB
Any point you make now has zero credibility after that display of ignorant xenophobia
I think you might find that not all people are entitled to strike. . .
What about disabled people with equipment dependent on electricity to power their beds, wheelchairs, hoists , personal alarms, no heat, no food, no light, no carers as the petrol stations won’t be able to pump petrol so their carers and families can reach them.
Is your pension worth even one life, ESB spokesperson?
Exactly the point I was making and ‘ESB staff’ referred to it when he/she said ‘other generators such as Bord Gas.. who are afaik just a supplier not a generator; as you say illustrates a certain lack of detailed knowledge. I suspect ESB staff is a plant to frighten us. I still ask the question of exactly what will be the effect.
THANK YOU, exactly my point, since early today. There will be disruption, but no total blackout. Now, lets get back to the point, why are these guys so pissed off? Apparently because the board and the Dept fiddled the books. This fiddling has been going on for a while because the Dept was fattening up ESB to sell it off, I assume under instruction from the IMF and Merkel and the EU. The lads are worried that their pensions won’t be maintained by a buyer, an unlikely prospect anyway, final salary pensions are a thing of the past.
Get a clue John!
The government had no problem cutting carers allowance, medical cards and other benefits.
Barry BG have a fairly large CCGT in cork
Very true Barry .they are not unionised and it will take at least 3 days for generation to drop off .as for the independent providers definitely wont be able to meet the demand.
Get your facts right
Barry esb generation produces the electricity is run on the esb network except for the 400kv 220kv lines and its managed by eirgrid. Once generation stops it will take 3 days for outages to start due to the fall in frequency
ESB Staff’s analogy of the 087 phone on the O2 bill is completely wrong. In this case it is ‘owned’ by the customer and registered to O2 for billing purposes with no involvement from any other party.
It is in fact a perfect example of how deregulation of a market can benefit a consumer but has so far proven next nigh impossible to do with fixed infrastructure such as wired networks and railways.
What sad irony it would be if the “Christmas Strike” of 2013 was looked back upon as the milestone that undermined the labour movement in Ireland …
Thank you, couldn’t have said it better myself
J O’B I don’t know where you got your figures from, but they are wrong and that is that
“Non-essential consumers”???? Seriously? Who are they, exactly? The person with a hospital bed at home? Or maybe the person with a monitor that requires electricity to work? Or the elderly, frail and ill people who will be adversely affected by having their heat/stoves/water turned off because there’s no electricity to run those systems in their homes? One person dies because of this, and ALL ESB employees can live with this fact – you’re murderers.
I look forward to meeting the ESB workers on the picket line. It will be difficult to control my anger as I vent my rage over not being able to work due to them cutting my power. I am sure many other self employed people will feel the same.
As self employed I totally agree with you, but I do not blame the workers for striking, but their methodology of crippling the ordinary folk as opposed to government officials and senior management. Those BASTARDS should be left powerless and charged a reconnection fee.
I am now worried about getting paid for Christmas over this. Absolute total wasters in that company. Of all the times of year to strike they decide to do it when it will hurt us the most. What about the elderly also? Its bloody cold now.
Yeah, it’s real effing hard to generate any sympathy for a group of over-entitled government workers who’d ransom our businesses for their own gain.
I don’t buy the idea that they can’t go on strike and keep the power on at the same time.
Is treason a crime in Ireland? If it is Ogle and his bearded colleagues should all be arrested for the misery they are about to cause, even the threat is going to cost the country millions in foreign investment and lost jobs.
@ Michael.
Yes treason is a crime in Ireland. In fact the only 2 crimes in Ireland in which if found guilty you have to receive a mandatory life sentence is Murder and Treason.
I doubt if any Court however will find any ESB worker guilty of Treason by reason of going on strike.
Being arrested is the least of the worries for Ogle if I get anywhere near him.
I said nothing about arresting workers I did infer however the unions. I could think of several other offences on top of treason, inciting hatred and numerous offences under public order offences. The easiest would be arrest all the union heads to prevent a breach of the peace. Based on a lot of the comments here, they might be safer locked up!
If they strike, Fire them and let them re-apply for their jobs under new contracts. Put that threat out there, If they still strike? Hire new staff, to run the company!
@Michael, no, dont lock them up. Let us have a go at them. Costs money to arrest them and lock them up.
Typical enough, as soon as a group of workers who happen to have some power take on the government everyone is eager to drag them back down. And will no doubt return to complaining about how no one stands up the day afterwards. Solidarity with the ESB workers, their struggle is our struggle!
They are not taking on the government.
Where will you get all these skilled electricians to fill the jobs?
some revolutionary :-)
If it is Ogle and his bearded colleagues should all be arrested for the misery they are about to cause, ”- How about arresting some politicians for the corruption and misery they have caused by bailing out their rich friends – with other peoples money .
Government was convent short hand – as we all now those who rule us include the banks, speculators and extended golden circle in general. The government does their will. But in a general sense the defence of pension rights by any group of workers takes on that entire crowd and should be supported on the basis that an injury to one is an injury to all. And for that matter a victory for one is victory for all. Back in the days before IBEC & ISME got everything they wanted and we had a union movement worth talking of everyone understood this.
I tend to agree Andrew. The Government are staying out of this because if they do get involved public frustration will land on them – where it should be. After all Pat Rabbitte’s name hasn’t come up much and he’s the one that the buck stops with as Minister.
He won’t get involved as he’s too cowardly. and I’m sure he has generators hooked up to his cooker and freezer at him to keep the fat on him. He won’t be eating salads in the dark anyway – that’s for sure.
Government don’t want to touvh it as they’ll end up losing the votes of 7,000 ESB workers – and their families.
I might have had more sympathy for them if they hadn’t been creaming it for years at our expense. Where was Ogle and his fellow beards when Rhode was open for business with a full compliment of staff despite not generating a watt of power?
Having said that , this story doesn’t add anything new to the equation. It’s just a rehash, as it’s precisely the same thing they said last week – that they’ll strike on December 16th.
If they strike and ya fire them esb cwn be brought to court for breaking the law
@Andrew @Luke, unfortunately unless the government step up to the mark the financial loss as a nation will be colossal, they will not have to worry about losing 7,000 ESB workers as they will loose the nation. Protesters will be on mass against not only ESB but mainly on the government for letting it happen. At least it will be warmer in a crowd than a cold, dark home eating thawed apple pies.
That’s what I’m hoping for Paul. I think it’s long past time we had some civil unrest, even if the horse has bolted, it’ll rattle the nerves of the Government and cut them down to size. And though it’s gonna hurt me too as a self employed person, there’s a bigger part of me that wants to see it go ahead.
It may cause a chain reaction if you pardon the pun.
How soon people forget. The ESB workers are never slated when they are out all hours of the day and night including Christmas and other holidays fixing power cuts. But when they stand up for themselves (something which is severely lacking in this country) they are slated beyond belief. If more people in this country stood up to the dictatorship style changes that are going on then we might be in a healthier state.
they have the most powerful tool in the country,,,to abuse,,,,,cutting off peoples electricity,,,,lowlifes
And they get paid super salaries for it
Get over it stop thinking of yourself the workers are right
Same as for Gardaí, nurses, paramedics etc. whats your point? By the way the average wage in each of those professions is nowhere near €65000/year.
Andrew you’re missing the point – they’re taking in the ordinary public and not the government – simples
if workers have deals pension rights etc and defined benefits then the rules cant be rewritten contracts are contracts . The govt have ripped up all public service contracts etc yet bad bondholders got paid . the esb are the only ones with courage to challenge the govt they all deserve our support . if it takes a Christmas in the cold or dark to get workers to revolt then be it .
Mmmmm if the power goes out for a period then no salaries can be paid through banking system cause they will be down . I will donate all the rotten food from the non working freezer to the ESB guys on the picket line , it won’t be handed just thrown at them plus ESB management will get a bill for the losses from my friendly solicitor writing it like Scrooge with a candle . Plus can we sue the ESB for non performing there contract to the customer which we signed for . Any solicitors out there willing to take this on . If a few hundred sued them for loss of earnings , stress say for American levels of 1 million , would they listen ?
Stephen your the man there are plenty of us ex ESB people who could step in and with a little help from the army and other sectors . Get a loan of the uk ESB transmission people , they owe us big for helping them out when they get hit by storms last few times. While they are here offer them the jobs to stay and get rid of the current mob and as for ogle he’d better get out fast before people tie electric cables to his neither regions and flip the switch . I’d gladly do it , just throw a bucket of water over him first .
Workers should stand together..but I cant see a strike going ahead.
Enda has his masterplan in place ..sure isnt that why he put his sister in law on the board..clever forward thinking and shame on everyone who thought it was a stroke!
Let’s get one thing very straight. This is not a struggle. If the company i work for drops power it takes us days to get back up and running with 100 plus people being sent home. Make no mistake as long as I cannot go to work and pay my mounting bills i am not the only one here who will be going to this pocket line. You might just see a struggle then. They earn 60,000 plus a year. Struggle my b%##*,ks
THere semi state, all the perks of government backing but none off the public sector pay cuts of pension levy etc etc
Your a disgrace to the word revolution. The true revolutionaries of this country would be behind us completely. They wouldn’t be on here sniffling and moaning.
Fired on what grounds? They are entitled to strike under Irish and European law, they have followed the law to the letter.
there are plenty of electricians who would kill to get in to the esb, most now forced to emmigrate
You mean doing the job they are paid to do?
Do the ESB not get very well paid for going out all hours of the night risking their lives. I doubt if they are owed one cent for doing what they are paid to do. What are you on about?
At that time Ogle had promoted himself from platform sweeper in CIE to forming a new Train Drivers Union and proceeded to wreak havoc on the rails.
@Mark O Brien
So what? Firefighters are out day and night, including Christmas and other holidays, putting out fires and putting themselves in harms way. Their pay is a pittance in comparison with those in the ESB and their pensions are likely to be the basic State contributory pension.
I agree that they are standing up for themselves. That they are considering doing so at a time when it will put the vulnerable at increased risk is unforgivable. Lots of people have had their pensions decimated. Only the likes of ESB staff can hold an entire country to ransom to restore their original pension benefits. The rest of us don’t have that option.
Would you be behind others struggling to restore their original pension entitlements? I think not. ESB unions have always been Mé Féiners. I can’t see that changing this time around. True revolutionaries would be looking well beyond the pension benefits of one particularly well-paid group.
@Andrew Flood. Its very easy to say that “their struggle is our struggle”. However, if the shoe was on the other foot, would the same be the case? I can tell you it would not be. ESB workers and unions only care about solidarity when it is solidarity with *them*. Our struggle is definitely not their struggle. When it comes to the struggle of others, they are Mé Féiners.
ESB workers, leave my family in the cold, and you’ll be meeting my mediation team.
Fairyland.!
You must be smoking Ganja.
It’s the way they are going about this is all wrong…….They should not be holding Joe Public to Ransom………..That is the Bottom Line…….And They Will Not Get Public Support!!!!!!’
Sap!
Those people are called scabs Stephen! They were in 1913; they still are!
I cant understand why everyone is complaining about men and women standing up for what is rightfully theirs. Does it bother you when its Marks and Spencers? Probably not because not everyone is affected by the strike in M&S. Esb workers are paying into their pension as a lot of other workers are, but do people who are not yet on strike get shouted and abused at (while doing their job) for standing up for themselves when the circumstances change through no fault of their own?
Exactly, although I’d definitely come home from oz if I was offered their wages!
Get the bags of piss ready for the protestors :)
Good man Andrew , at least there’s someone on here with some sense .
Irish Revolution you should change your name. If the strike does go ahead come to waterford I look forward to it .
Your bang on pickets
I totally agree. why should the ordinary folks be made pay again, for something they had nothing to do with. if anything happens to any person if this strike goes ahead, the esb should be made pay big time.
This is very unfortunate and will cause major disruption. If a strike goes ahead, I hope we are told the following
1) what profits did ESB make last year
2) what staff cuts and wage cuts have occurred over the last 5 years.
3) what is this strike about in simple language and how much it will mean to the average worker.
4) how many Directors are on the Board of ESB , what are their salaries, what staff and wage cuts have they taken in the last 5 years, how much does will it mean for them.
Only then will I feel able to make an informed decision on whether the staff should cop on and go to work, or whether I will be happy to deal with the inconvenience to support them.
Louise,
You asked a few valid questions and I will answer them truthfully. I have nothing to gain by doing anything else.
1) ESB the company made a profit last year of approx 500 million.
2)Almost 800 staff have either retired or taken a VSS package in the past two years. Only 20 or so people have been give full time jobs to replace then since. The company has completed a cost saving program of 140 Million saving, and all staff have taken a hit, except senior management. (like most companies)
3)Pension, and it will mean to the average worker that there is a risk of us ending up after 40 years paying into a scheme with nothing. I pay approx 90 euro per week towards my pension.
4)12 directors, the CEO is appointed by the government. Their salaries are on the range of 200K upwards. They have taken no wage cuts.
So to be honest ESB is unlike most companies in ways. The fat cats at the top take no pain but down the food chain is where it hurts.
I hope this helps you.
Why not wait till after Christmas, to do your dirty deeds!
“Esb staff”
Public service workers got hit with a pension levy in 2008 which was a substantial reduction in their take home pay. The reason they took it was to protect their pensions. Did the Esb workers get hit with this pension levy or was it decided then that they were a private company? If so the Esb workers are not entitled to rely on already overburdened taxpayers to prop up their failed private pension fund. Send ogle around to the pension fund managers to complain.
I am 52yrs of age.in the private sector,Hospitality,I am earning 9 euros an hr.i get sick,don’t work I don’t get paid,not guaranteed 40hrs per week.if it’s quiet I go home,i am Irish,have worked since I was 17yrs old,my wages have reduced like thousands of others in this country,new taxes,cost of living rising all the time! You Guys Would Want to Cop On.The majority of the public will not support ye! if ye do go on all out strike ye should be Sacked with Immediate effect and left on the picket lines!
Public servants didn’t volunteer for the pension levy: it was deducted directly at source, without any consultation!
Fair play to the ESB workers, the M&S workers and anyone else who’s prepared to strike to defend their pay and conditions!
This is ridiculous, why should we the ordinary public and business suffer i.e. the ESB customers who actual pay the staff their salaries(and pension) when this disagreement has nothing to do with us whatsoever?!
because the only power workers have is to withdraw their labour. The only thing unusual here is that because these are power workers its not so easy for the government to try and ignore them until they are forced back to work through poverty
And they choose to withdraw their labour 9 days before Christmas Day? They will certainly win public support by following through with that type of selfishness!
Public support is worth very little when its a public that looks only to its own interest as soon as it faces any disruption. If I was to criticise the ESB workers it wouldn’t be because they are threatening effective action but because they are not yet willing to use their power to also fight for other workers in similar situations. But that’s the fault of the modern union movement (which puts too much of value on public support) rather than them
Well said Andrew. The Irish people need to show solidarity with the unions fighting to protect the wages and conditions of ordinary workers. However, the unions also need to broaden their outlook beyond their own sectional interests and demonstrate solidarity with the people.
The ESB unions had the ability to stop the imposition of the Home Tax robbery dead in its tracks this year by depriving the Revenue’s computers of the electricity they needed to implement the Troika’s bond holder tax. The An Post workers had the power to stop the delivery of the ECB’s extortion letters before they dropped through a single letterbox.
The unions and everybody else needs to wake up and start thinking in terms of ‘We’ rather than ‘I’. The country is being looted to pay for the failure of speculative financial capitalism and we won’t stop this until we stand together.
they have and are abusing the most powerful tool a company can have that holds the country to ransom,,,,,they are throwing the toys out of the pram, without any conscience for the whole of the country,,,they shouldnt be allowed to strike as part of their work contract,,,,for Gods sake the outcome of the LRC recommendations hasnt even been discussed yet the workers have decided they are definitely striking,,,,,,they are one of the few who were not hit by austerity, including their 4 percent rise while the rest of the country were being screwed,,,,,they are a disgrace,,,and have displayed their true colours
This is what happens when there is a unionised public sector monopoly. A proper private sector competition based energy supply service would have sorted this out…
Not a popular view… but it is true none the less
Yeah that’s called the race to the bottom, bad for everyone except the bosses. Solidarity is the answer not the promotion of greed and competition
My thoughts exactly. My guess is their attitude would be “I’m alright Jack” once their dispute is sorted.
Can you explain how a privatised non-monopolistic high-tension distribution network would work?
Much the same way it did when they privatised the railways in Britain – dangerously!!
These pr*cks are cutting off the power at a vital time for small and medium businesses who need the Xmas shopping revenue in order to survive. What about people on dialysis or older people living in houses that are dependant on electrical heaters at this bitterly cold time of year.
I live close to an ESB office and they are going to know how I feel about their strike, these poor workers on their meagre wages of an average of €68,000 per annum.
Pat,
I wonder were you as passionate and concerned about the elderly when the fuel allowance was cut to help pay the €100 billion of private illegitimate banking debt that has been heaped on our shoulders?
why do you keep copying and pasting your comment throughout the feed Coddler ?
Because it’s a legitimate question each time Jacky.
is your concern that our taxes will fund the ESB Pension deficit ?
My concern is that the country is being looted to pay off private illegitimate banking debt. The austerity program being imposed on us by our own and the European elite to pay for the failure of speculative financial capitalism has destroyed the domestic economy and driven a race to the bottom in wages and working conditions. Then when a group of workers stands up to fight, they are viciously attacked by a section of the population for daring to protect their terms and conditions. I support all workers defending their livelihoods including those in the ESB, M&S and Dublin Bus.
The Irish people need to show solidarity with the unions fighting to protect the wages and conditions of ordinary workers. However, the unions also need to broaden their outlook beyond their own sectional interests and demonstrate solidarity with the people.
The ESB unions had the ability to stop the imposition of the Home Tax robbery dead in its tracks this year by depriving the Revenue’s computers of the electricity they needed to implement the Troika’s bond holder tax. The An Post workers had the power to stop the delivery of the ECB’s extortion letters before they dropped through a single letterbox.
The unions and everybody else needs to wake up and start thinking in terms of ‘We’ rather than ‘I’. The country is being dismantled to pay for failed neo liberal capitalism and we won’t stop this until we stand together.
Coddler as Jacqueline said its great you’ve learned to copy and paste. But each time you have yet to answer the question of people who rely on this service for health conditions. I completely agree with the right of the ESB to strike, but to choose a time when the weather is the worst is purposefully putting a proportion of the country at a very real health risk. Either you’re not directly affected by this or you have yet to think about it.
The vicious cutbacks to our health service over the past 5 years has put a large proportion of the populations health at risk. The ESB management decided the timing of this strike with their continuing attempts to convert the defined benefit pension scheme into defined contribution. Everybody will be directly affected by this strike including myself. Nevertheless I support the industrial action 100% as it will demonstrate the strength of workers to combat the dismantling of our society under neo liberal capitalism. If you thought about the big picture yourself ,you might agree that the temporary hardship of a blackout is a small price to pay for the long term protection of our people.
I support workers’ right to strike in defence of their rights. However a lot of what you’re saying sounds awfully like you want a political strike. That would not be acceptable in a democracy.
Maybe management chose this time to announce they will be stealing the entire fund to make it harder to strike and easier to demonize the ordinary worker. They were obviously clever because we are a nation divided. The esb worker did not sell us down the river. Remember who the real enemy is.
And by the way,they get €400.00 bonus at Xmas ,even if they go on strike……..can u believe that PeopleOf Ireland!
People who require services such as dialysis will have it provided in hospitals instead of their homes, whose electricity will be provided both directly and by generators. Stop scare mongering!
Well, the miners were forced out in March Ciaran; look how well that turned out for them!
Do you think we live in a democracy, Michael?
If they blackout the country, it’s the end of ESB. The government should break it up and sell / privatise it
Sadly, I agree with you. The unions were supposed to be there to protect the small fella – but now it’s a small self-interest group that punishes the small fella when it doesn’t get its way. Eff em if that’s the way they want to go.
Grand so, fire them.
I hope that’s sarcasm. The alternative is the complete economic, industrial and social collapse of this country. Who’d do the repairs or generation? Teachers? Doctors? Politicians? You? I can wire a light or socket and fix a plug, but I wouldn’t have the foggiest when it comes to operating Ardnacrusha or fixing overhead power cables.
Brian get real there are plenty of people in Ireland and abroad who could replace these overpaid wasters anytime. Ogle must be really enjoying this.
There is no job in ESB that is either unique or limited by the number of potential applicants, I have 40 years of experience in similar industries, mostly oil and gas, believe me there would be no problem in backfilling these positions.
Just as well you know how to wire a plug.
I wouldn’t like to be relying on the ESB to wire plugs as it would take 6 months for them to come to do it, with a team of over paid workers and it would end up costing more than the appliance itself.
Do you think so Michael? Do you really think we could sack 8,000 people at 6pm and have 8,000 fully qualified people that are familiar with our power generation and grid hired and on site by 6:01 pm? And who’d work for a company that would sack people at the drop of a hat? It would take weeks to rehire meaning weeks of no electricity, or perhaps sporadic electricity. Think what that would do to our economy! I’m not on the side of the ESB workers and honestly don’t fully understand the dispute. But stupid statements like “sack them all” are simply stupid statements.
Eh yes, I do think so. Based on the salary they get I’m sure there are plenty of workers abroad or at home who would be here on the next flight to get a job on the salary ESB workers are on. By the way I’m sure 8000 staff are not needed to generate electricity. Probably admin etc for their huge salaries and pensions
Not everybody will strike, and there aren’t 8,000 critical position, maybe 500, shouldn’t be a problem getting them in from the German manufactures of the equipment, for example.
Your logic is based on the assumption that those potential new ESB workers want to work for that company and want to uproot their entire lives and families and work here. By the way, you do need the admin staff. They’re the guys responsible for paying the wages, unless you think these 500 new workers who you think would be here by 1 minute past 6 will uproot their lives to work for free for a company known to sack workers without notice in a country devastated by the economic crash.
Brian
We would get thousands of highly qualified engineers and electricians from Syria tomorrow morning if we needed them and then we could insist on such employees remaining out of these tainted and corrupt Unions who are so hell bent on criminally obtaining monies with menaces.
This strike will see elderly people die from hypothermia and ill patients unable to use machines to dialyse themselves which will also result in death while Ogle and his Extreme Left wing thugs carry out their revolution.
Haven’t you seen the unemployment rate? Replacements are here already
Brian,
Unfortunately the government is a little more intelligent than their blueshirt mouthpieces on here. They are not stupid enough to kick sleeping union bear and sack the entire the ESB staff and more’s the pity. If they did, we might finally see the unions and the people stir.
Brain, your post is full of assumptions. “Your logic is based on the assumption that those potential new ESB workers want to work for that company and want to uproot their entire lives and families and work here.”
when companies especially manufacturing ect start up or move the contract workers on 3, 6, months ect. There are plenty of contract workers out there that do just this, move from country to country without uprooting their families. They fly home at weekends if they want, or work for 3 – 4 solid and take a week off to go back to their families. They get paid very well for it. You only have to look at Intel in Ireland to see this in action. There are plenty of people who know how to run a power station that can be brought in if needed to run a skeleton crew while other come in over the following weeks.
.
And while i point out your assumptions (which are false) I do not believe it would ever come to this, but the union have served notice and a date given, so it would be quite possible to have a standby crew ready to go at 1 minute past the hour.
Michael, your answer involves a drastic solution that is not based on solid evidence. You say there are enough people here and in Syria to replace the workers. Fine. Do you have the list of names? After all, I assume you’ve drawn up such a list if you’ve already come to your conclusion. If not then a recruitment process begins. Do you really think current ESB workers will work during that process knowing their jobs were gone? No. Your solution is populist, backlashing rhetoric that is not based on any hard information and relies on unproven assumptions. Plus, the legalities of sacking all current staff without notice would probably lead to massive financial settlements in the tens of millions.
I think cutting the entire power to an entire country constitutes to a drastic situation requiring a drastic solution. Lets hope it does not get to that state, but if it did I would assume the country had a backup plan, especially if they had plenty of notice that it was going to happen, It really would not be that hard to bring in some contract work to run a skeleton crew while other are brought in over the coming weeks. hospitals and generators can only run for certain amounts of time before failures and servicing is needed,.
i agree Simon,,,,,it would give a bit of work and money to someone who is on way less money ;)
Brian, Regan did it with all the equally pampered air traffic controllers in the US and got away with it.
Yes William, Regan did. But employment law is far stricter in Ireland.
Don’t get me wrong. I think holding the country to ransom and putting people’s lives at risk is not only unethical but also cowardly (personally, everything I have is electric – cooking, heating and lighting). I just don’t think sacking the whole workforce of the ESB at the drop of a hat is logical or feasible without any serious ramifications.
Right. Yep plenary of us overseas who have worked ESB before who may like to come back … Make an offer !
Just wait for the headlines on 16th December
Ireland, the worst country in the world for business.
Thanks ESB.
They aren’t going to get much sympathy from the public. Lots of people have had their pensions affected in the crisis, I’m all for people fighting for their rights but a week before Christmas when businesses are trying to stay afloat, people try to work to live and then the cold weather. It’s a real finger up to the ordering person, they obviously don’t give a crap about people who could lose their jobs over this.
I’ve one that’s worth 10% of what I put into it! I think I’ll go on strike too……………….oh wait, my customers will just go elsewhere.
I wonder will it all be worth it if some old man or woman dies of pnuemonia because they are unable to heat there house
Stephen,
I presume you equally appalled when the fuel allowance was cut to help pay for the €100 billion of private illegitimate banking debt that has been heaped on our shoulders?
Interesting how they choose to go on strike at the coldest & worst possible time of year, holding the Country to random.
How trade unionist of them…
“holding the Country to random”
Best typo of the day ;)
you are obviously more concerned with typing errors than the meaning of the statement Giovanni,,,,you must work in the ESB
looks like my iphone auto correct is as good as your jokes….
Why don’t the government sit tonight and introduce emergency legislation to ban strikes that have potential to do real harm to the country.
This should not be allowed to go ahead
And how do you stop 7,000 ESB workers from having a blue flu day through legislation? Ridiculous notion.
Its actually a very good notion. They might choose to take the route of blue flu but you can only use that so many times, you will need sick notes to prove you are ill, and I personally can’t see any doctors writing out sick notes while sitting in the dark loosing business. Too many sick days and you can be put on report. too many on report and you can loose your job.
First up the Government have already indicated thy won’t support it, secondly criminalising strikers on the eve of a strike is adding fuel to the fire and absolutely guaranteeing mass powercuts when negotiations are still ongoing and may not end in trike at all, thirdly jailing for up to 5 years – which is what’s being proposed, 7,000 people with genuine grievances is the most ludicrous idea I’ve heard in a long time and is typical of this reactionary mentality that always seems to take centre place on this publication.
If you seriously think it’ll help rather than hinder matters, I fail to see the logic.
And you don’t think that striking 1 week before xmas is adding fuel to the fire?. There is also no need to jail them or criminalise them. just put their job as risk if the all out strike and purposefully the turn power off.
At least my ESB Bill should be lower come January! Every cloud and all that comes to mind.
This is insane brinkmanship
Were going to have to face it that a strike is going to happen & since alot of people are going to be off work that day why dont we be useful & check on the elderly. Alot of people have gas cookers lm sure people could cook a nice warm meal for them & bring a flask of tea & hot water for a hot water bottle. We dont need a defeated attitude all the time look for a solution.
you make it sound so simple Lisa,,,,i have worked voluntarily for the special needs and elderly for years, and have yet to see too many people concerned about ensuring these vulnerable people are cared for unless they are being paid,,,,,the reality is no body should have the basic need and right of electricity removed from them
You won’t have water
Electricity isn’t a right Jacqueline.
Is it just one day or ongoing until this is sorted? Gaaaah! Sometimes this country really annoys me.
If they don’t get their own way, they’ll probably stamp their feet, cry a bit while sucking their thumbs and then flip the switch off again.
Simon,
Power will be restored when we get what we want. Live with it.
Enough is enough. We are the first of many companies to take this route. If everyone stood up then we may have prevented the property charge or water charges, but no we would prefer to sit by a computer and write silly comments to try and stir the pot…
So Simon just move on, if you were in our shoes you would do the same no questions. This is the doing of the Irish Government and we have had enough.
Can people who require ventilator equipment so that they can breed at night while they sleep live with out that equipment. I dont think so. And what about the eldery people who rely on electricty for heat. If this strike goes ahead people will die. It will beSomebodys grandmother or grandfather who has paid there taxes all their lives and are living on a state pension who will suffer. Of coarse with no power there will be no phones so when an accadent occurs there will be noway of calling for an ambulance and again people will die likewise with fires no phones no fire brigade and with people having to use candles for light this risk will increase. Blood on your hands ESB Staff!!!!!
Has anyone in the union answered Eddie Hobbs assertion that their pension fund is back to where it was pre collapse due to market recovery ? I’d love to know what they’re actually striking for if this is the case . They’re not going out over pay and conditions anyway do what’s all this for ? I think it’s time for emergency legislation re striking and essential services as a matter of urgency . Small business can’t be held to ransom like this .
They are still using data from 2010 as their argument. And has been stated that the fund should be back in the black by 2018, no one in the mean time retiring will be affected.
How is this going to work? Will they actually be withdrawing power or will they just refuse to work on natural power cuts etc?
Good question with conflicting reports. We need ESB workers to monitor generators, sub stations and the like, so if they all strike does that mean the power is cut or is it just fault repair? Hopefully someone can answer this.
The generators will have to be switched off or run the risk of overheating leading to permanent damage or, in the worst case scenarios, explosions.
I’m sure all suppliers will stop non payment disconnections anyway but I’d be worried that they’ll actually shut off power within ESB networks..
They refuse to work most days anyway, ESB workers are amongst the most lazy on the planet. What they will do is cut our power.
I didn’t hear the people in the west and north say that when there power was restored over the last day or so
They are dead right!!! If you worked hard all your years, paid for others pensions, paid tax for people to sit on their back side and not work at all to be guaranteed 13 miserable euro of a pension a week. Its a disgrace!!!!
And as already pointed out their pension fund will be back in profit by 2018 and no one up to that point who is going to retire is going to suffer any cuts to their pension. They have plenty of room to maneuver on this. This strike a a move by Ogle to incite a strike when there is no need. An ESB worker on here yesterday said that majority think the timing is bad and would prefer a different time, there not even in control of their own union.
Denise – we don’t need propaganda!
That’s what I’ve been doing all my working life,paying for the greedy,overpaid,over staffed Public Sector!
So the ESB have made public their intent to strike on 16th December.
If anyone should die as a result, would it not be considered premeditated murder?
Paul,
Should the coalition government be charged with murder if an elderly person dies of hypothermia as the fuel allowance was cut to help pay for the €100 billion of private illegitimate banking debt that has been heaped on our shoulders?
Seems very simple to me. ESB takes its share of liability for the pension fund to make itself more attractive to the bankers, because its cash reserves have been depleted to pay ……. the bankers!
Pat Rabbitte just has to tell them to reverse this stroke of the pen, and everyone will be happy. Except the bankers.
We should buy our power from the uk and leave these selfish cretins out in the cold.
Unfortunately, that does solve the problems with overhead lines, transmission, sub-stations, stand-by generators, gas-turbine sets etc. generating the power is only one piece of the jigsaw. However, this type of industrial action is pretty outdated and smacks more of union power than workers’ rights.
Wonder what salary/benefits/pension rights Mr Ogle is entitled to ? His members need to tell him to stop poncing about and get back in there to negotiate a settlement, as he is paid to do.
PRIVATISE……PRIVATISE……PRIVATISE.
Let the union know how you feel about them going on strike!
Done, may their server explode with messages.
Done – I hope their server melts
Done, hopefully everyone send them emails and lets them know they have no support whatsoever, what a time of year to do this!
Done
ta! Sent…
My contribution to their site, “My pension is worth 10% of what I paid into it. I’m self employed so there’s sweet Fanny Adams I can do about it. Welcome to reality. With the country nearly banjaxed you lot are a disgrace.”
Done. Just sent them a message of support and solidarity.
It has lol says no more coments
I know switching is not going to help me if they strike, but I just went online and switched, hoping that enough of ESB customers do they same, enough of these greedy ba****ds will have to be fired and sit in the dark for much longer
Exactly, let them moan when there is no money in the coffers to pay their 65k salary and their lump sum at retirement and only charge them 1/2 the price for their electric.
People have a right to strike but when its a bunch of overpaids holding the country to ransom!!!
You ESB workers have caused a lot of resentment towards yourselves with your threatened actions directed at the public, your customers , the people who pay the bills. Perhaps my newly made up twitter username is a bit childish, but I’m really p****ed off. Who do you think you are. My private sector pension was obliterated just like thousands more, we got on with our lives and are picking ourselves back up again , some of us are lucky enough to have found new employers who have offered us new pension plans. The world doesn’t owe you a living, get real and stop acting like babies
So what you are basically saying is that as your own pension is gone it would make you feel better if others’ is gone too? Hear hear. Still support ESB workers all the way.
@Marie McCormack. Would ESB workers act in solidarity with or support others whose pensions have been decimated? I strongly suspect that they would not.
So can we sue the ESB for lose of business and potential damage to goods if that is the case? Self employed so won’t be making any money.
Will be changing to some other provider over the weekend.
What provider would that be? ESB operate the network.
Did I say they didn’t!
Brendan Ogle is the nearest thing we have to Arthur Scargil, a career ‘communist’ and sociopath wrecker. An imbecile like him needs running out on a rail..no wait, he tried something a few years ago with that. There are still close to 140 000 unemployed in this country, a bet there are a good number of them are electricians who could replace the greedy, selfish goons who are threatening to pull the plug. Energy is critical to the revival of this country and the actions of a few overpaid sparks, led by a cretin should be dismissed & made re-apply for their jobs. Ogle included.
You’re well named.
The unions are just as to blame as bankers and politicians for the mess we’re in. Has anybody learnt anything in the past 6 years!
Really? I can’t remember a €100 billion being extorted from the citizens to pay for the failed gambles of the Unions. Intriguing.
The unions were all bought by Bertie n Co….
So here we are 100 years on from the great Lockout in Dublin when workers took a stand for their rights.
The Company decided to change the workers pensions without notice or consultation.
That was 3 years ago since then the workers have tried to get it changed back no luck there.
So they have decided to Go on strike for their Rights. They dont want MORE money they want to look after their Rights.
Low and Behold the Great Irish Public 100 years on and people standing up for themselves are the ones despised because they might cause some inconvenience to you, this is why the Goverment can do anything they like to anyone, your all spineless the moment anyone sakes a stand you shoot them back down.
They should be calling for a nation stoppage,across the board,all unions and non unions……..
How these senior managers who have caused this industrial action are still in jobs is beyond me.
because their part of the ‘unsackable’ public service ?
no more amazing than charity bosses taking money from disabled and not returning any of it. endemic sh&te
That is the 6 marker question across the whole Public Sector?
no doubt there will be a few house fires due to use of candles, who knows, a few deaths maybe ! hope its worth the pensions these guys are getting
Well if there is power cuts I won’t pay me esb bill this month sorted :)
Fair play to them. Why should they not look after their own interests. No people putting up comments here will care about them or there families .so why should they worry about you. So what if their well paid and one single person here ever refused a paid rise ?. Did they
not having the b@lls to confront the mgmt, but take it on a soft target – the public, who also happen to massively contribute into wages and pensions. my sympathy is not exactly pouring out to the strikers.
As a Prepper it’s safe to say the sheep are screwed on this one
Indeed,but maybe when they are freezing in their unheated fold,they might finally realise what sort of a joke of a country they live in.
World we live in
I hope they wise up its all of us or nothing that will make that change
There will be a stand off until the last few moments and lo and behold there will be a breakthrough new talks everything on hold until the new year.
Same as ever, greedy unions pretending they have the moral high ground and for some bizzare reason thinking everyone whom they hurt/inconvenience will support them. Start a new hire policy at esb, all new hires are contractually prohibited from joining a union.
That’s why unions exist. To protect workers just in case they happen to be working for employers with your mentality. Anyway, you would definitely sing a different song if it was about your own pension you spent years or decades paying for.
When you give people a monopoly power over you don’t be surprised if they use it. Their average salaries are over 100k a year and they want you to pay for their failed pension scheme too. They’re special you see. Note how the semi states refused to take pay cuts too.
Unless YOU decide to act by telling your TDs to take them on, then you will have no one to blame but yourself. It’s time we all realised that we have the power to take on this cosseted semi state class who live parallel lives to the rest of us. But it takes a fight.
Nice of you to give each of them on average an extra €32,000 top up bonus for Christmas.
FFS if you can’t get simple averages right……………
I feel bad for saying this but I’m secretly looking forward to power cuts…
Strikes should be outlawed in essential services like electricity and water, just as in the Army and Gardai.
Mr Ogle’s honesty is at stake, as he promised the Xmas period would not be effected.
When the first hospital generator packs in and the first person dies I personnally would not like to be a striking esb working!
they wont give a damn,,,,,and if that happens, we will more than likely not find out
When the strike is over everyone switch to airtricity.
ESB Networks run the grid and supply Airtricity’s generation.
What about Bord Gais?
ESB supply them too
I was going to buy a jar of marmite. It’s only nice on toast. Now where do I turn?
Wake up stand up don’t back down
“campaign socialism” as its best, their chief agitator is paid more than double the average wage in this country….
Its a kick in the teeth for all the unemployed tradesmen who’d be happy to work for very little and have a company van. Esb staff living in a bubble as usual and want to ruin everyone’s Christmas. Nice one
God love them….. they miked people for every penny they could when the times were good. Hard to feel sorry for people that used to laugh in your face if you wanted then to do a small job.
Besides the ESB don’t pay cash in hand…..
I think I can understand and even sympathise with the workers
Why though are they striking if the fund will be back in profit by 2018, pension funds are not guaranteed. As far as I’m aware.
Can someone, maybe an ESB Union member tell us exactly how we are going to be affected and for how long.
Eventually shops etc will be unable to open. Then strikers will be just as much in the proverbial as the rest of us.
Really think it’s time for a bit of common sense here.
Because the fund won’t be given that chance. The govt will take it because it’s not fully funded. How do none of you know this?
The sense of powerlessness people feel regarding this strike can be taken back by those of us who know people who work in the ESB. We need to tell them that they are no longer welcome in our community or homes if they ruin our Christmas. Specifically tell them to forget their interaction with you and your family over and beyond Christmas.
If they persist, make their victory pyrrhic by boycotting them
A good Irish tradition.
This needs to happen next week
Funny Brendan most people who know people in the esb support their strike and are happy they are taking a stand.
Brendan Palmer.
Please come back down from Mars and join the planet earth. What sort of ravings are you really on about…?
You are the type of person that has an issue with life itself…. Please grow up…
Wow, what a sophisticated, cogent argument you’ve got going there, “ESB Staff”. Keep up the good work!
Tell me, once you have your pension thing sorted out, will your attitude to the rest of the working populace be, as it always has been, “I’m all right Jack, pull up the ladder”, or can we expect to see some solidarity with others whose pension benefits have been severely reduced?
Tom,
I’ve watched all the comments over the past few days, and to be honest its laughable to see to knowledge that the general actually have regarding the ESB and the networks etc.
People suggest changing supplier…
People suggest sacking everyone…
People suggest not paying their bill…
People suggest the notion of solidarity…
The truth of the matter is that no employee wants this strike. However none is prepared to put 90euro to 100euro a week into a pension pot and after 40 years probably have nothing.
I know that quiet a number of people have no pensions and more have lost everything but ESB cannot be held responsible for any of this.
Its the Irish attitude to begrudge anyone that gets ahead or has something their neighbour hasn’t.
Just remember folks that most meter readers nowadays are contractors. They aren’t part of the union and didn’t vote to strike. Please don’t take it out on them!
Have they got a death wish? Legislation should be enacted asap outlawing strikes of this nature…nothing short of blackmail.
Just cut off Kenny and Gilmores houses
How long do they plan on keeping it off , has any of them even stopped to think about the old people, how are they going to get on with NO power NO heating due to it
How are people meant to fed their familys if we cant cook due to NO power
I suppose a lot of them are wondering how their going to feed their own families too, and look after their own elderly parents siblings and spouses – they’ll be without power too remember. That’ll tell you the strength of feeling ion the ESB about this issue. Many stand to lose their pensions entirely, there are a lot of people moaning on here that would be the first on strike if the same thing was happening to them.
Still, it’s just a game of chess at the moment.
“Many stand to lose their pensions entirely” – Over dramatise much ?
they dont really need to wonder, as the solution to the problem lies in their hands
I’ve ben down this road already Simon, I’m not going to pend half the day going back down this road again.
My partner worked in the private sector for over 10 years before joining ESB 5 or 6 years ago. She’d worked up a pension pot in that job, as do 50% of people in the private sector. She’ll lose all of that as the pension conditions have been changed and no longer conform to the conditions necessary. Plus, she now stands to get just 14% of the pension she’s been paying into last five or 6 years.
So, in effect she’ll have nothing to show pensionwise for 15 years work.
Also, there are people working there that transferred their partners pension and their own in to one also, and they stand to lose all of it for the same reason.
If anyone here tells me they wouldn’t strike as a result – I wouldn’t believe them.
What will you all have to say if a hospital cant keep there power going and some dies
or what if an old person dies of pnuemonia because they cant heat there house
Is this your business partner?
I won’t have anything to say as I didn’t cause the problem in the first place in case you hadn’t noticed in your zeal to point the finger and apportion blame.
If people choose to put all their eggs in one basket that is their choice. You also state she will get 14% of what she put in .considering how well the pension was supposed to be, and probably still will be once the markets recover more, that 14% will still probably be better than any state pension most people on here will get, there will be no state pension when I retire and I will have paid into that all my life though force. and any private pension i might have has currently been robbed by the government without my permission and probably will be robbed again in the near future to fund another one of their mad cap ideas. funnily enough we all seem to be in the same boat with pensions, what’s makes ESB so special? Be glad and lucky you’re partner has been excluded from that big scam.
And I can just point out that if the hole is plugged with some sort of funding it can only come from 2 area’s
1) ESB grid raise the rate they charge which will be passed directly onto the customer. BUT ESB staff
enjoy a 55% discount on their electric unit charge, so they’ll hardly feel the pain of this
2) Yet another pension levy’s to the public, BUT again ESB staff are exempt from paying any pension levy’s
So there you have it a nice WIN WIN situation for ESB , no pain for them. Why not use the money you are currently saving in electric bill and put that into a savings account, might be a nice tidy sum by the time you retire.
According to some reports they aren’t going to lose their pensions. The fund will be back up by 2018 .
Even if not the result would not be loss of pension but rather a reduced pension, surely.
40%. And every job has perks on some level.
Secondly. The terms of employment re pensions was changed without consultation. That’s a genuine grievance whether you like it or not Simon.
And the reason the Government raided the pensions, is because you and many others let them do it. That point shouldn’t be underestimated.
And this is where i have issues Luke. the employment pension was changed without consultation. No one currently retiring is going to suffer any loss to their retirement. there is plenty of room to maneuver. If your work contract has changed without consultation then you have every right to persue this through the courts legaly, and by 2018 they reckon that the fund will be back in the black. Data currently being used by the unions is dated back to 2010,
The treat of a total power cut to the nation vastly out ways the seriousness of the pension issue that can be perused by other courses over the next few years, there is no need to cut the power 1 week before xmas. just no need at all,, it is Ogle that is pushing this because he likes to be dramatic, Striking is like his calling card.
A loss of pre existing pension Steve for many that moved from the private sector to ESB. It vanishes as I’ve said above. She’s taken advice on it internally and externally of ESB, and the outcome was the same.
There are a huge amount of part timers in call centres etc. Many of those would have left the private sector to work part time in ESB after having kids.
A lot of those, and many others, will be screwed.
Well no one in the ESB that I’m aware of is happy with striking at Xmas, or happy with him either in his handling of it.
And that’s the impression i have gotten talking to supposedly ESB staff on here. So it beggars belief that they are going ahead 1 week before Xmas when a strike at any time of the year is going to get their point across, It has Ogle written all over it, why don’t the Unions change the timing and maybe get a bit more support from the public.
I agree. They should postpone til late spring at least, when the weather is better. It would do them no harm at all to pull the plug {awful pun} on this strike and change strategy.
Also, more often than not people in the ESB are reading about whats happening here before they find out via the unions. Believe it or not, I’m briefing herself rather than the other way around much of the time.
Why don’t the ESB workers fire that useless ignorant union ogle chap . Get him out now and ensure he dos t even get a council job brushing up streets . Put someone form ESB itself in there who can negotiate this out and quit this fckeing grandstanding . Everyone will suffer for this strike , ESB will come out of it very badly , thousands of households will move to alternative providers and the govt might very well move emergency legislation to ban strikes by power utilities company and workers . The ESB may well face being sued for loss of business , loss of goods , loss of frozen ( rotting) foods and could face being sued for non performing your contract obligations to the customers . If that is not in contract then it should be included now. Then the govt should do root and branch review of pay and conditions of all workers in ESB and start getting these into line with ordinary workers , cut the salary of the top 50 people in ESB by 40% and redo all contracts where there only non unionised workers allowed to be rehired . Bring in polish and other in to run the system if ESB ex workers don’t want to reapply for thee jobs and then finally appoint Michael o Leary as the head of the ESB and let him lose to develop a low cost model for everyone . We have the highest rate per head in Europe . Plus build a couple of neuclear power stations to guarantee supply
@Simon. The speed of it {striking} caught many ESB employees off guard. There was limited notice and meetings on the whole process with staff.
I’d doubt there’ll be a strike personally. But herself and her co workers seem to think there will be.
Also, the last major ESB strike was in 1991. I don’t recall any power cuts at the time – perhaps there were cuts – but I don’t remember them.
Likely, it’ll be work to rule initially despite the increasingly dramatic rhetoric. 90% hot air methinks.
And Simon. I’ve always found you to be a most reasonable and knowledgeable contributor on these boards, yet this is not the first time lately I’ve been dismissive/sarcastic in the tone of my posts in conversation with you. Apologies. Sometimes round here one can get bogged down if you know what I mean.
If I was earning €50,000per yr,I would have my own private pension!!!!!!
It’s about time someone showed every one else how to do it proper.
They’ve said it now so they have to go through with it. Otherwise future threats will have no substance. Shame that people have to resort to these kind of tactics.
A different article over the last couple of days was about Forbes magazine rating Ireland as one of the best places to do business.
The comments posted here would change their mind.
Hardly a being wants to work, almost everyone wants to be a manager and put the ESB workers back in their box. Any prospective investor would look at this and think that there are only so many managers they would need, and if the rest want to manage rather than work, what would be the point of coming here
The ESB and their employees have to resolve their issues, and it seems to me that the ESB management is content to allow the blackout happen rather that talk to their employees representatives.
Issues around pensions are not straightforward, ask the people in Waterford Glass, Mirror Newspapers and others that have been left high and dry, and the ESB workers deserve some certainty about their pension arrangements.
I don’t look forward to the disruption a blackout will bring, but if the management at ESB lived up to the responsibilities they have to their employees it wouldn’t be happening.
This is ridiculous all of them should be sacked. I can understand their problems but their problems will become my problems. Feckers.
Strikes are supposed to be inconvenient! What use would a strike be if no one was put out by it!
The idiocy of the people here is making my brain hurt. Sure there is a guy called Revolution Ireland here criticizing what is clearly a step in the right direction for a revolution!
And now watch the fastest privatisation in history, fools.
Very very pissed off!!
I’ve worked for the ESB for 33 years and my salary is €47000 not some of the silly figures mentioned earlier. Most of my colleagues earn similar salaries. My pension will hopefully be 50% of my salary! not 70 or 80%. The government owns 95% of the ESB so has the power to end this dispute today but they don’t want to because then they would have to deal with every other semi state defined benefit pension scheme ( Bord Gais, Aer Lingus, etc ) which are also in the red like ESBs and will have to be dealt with sooner or later. This dispute has a lot more riding on it than just the ESB pensions.
Michael,and how much do you pay for your electricity ?
Nice one mick .We have given the GOU a mandate to protect our futures, I cant for the life of me understand how the general public dont see this .
Liam they are terms and conditions of employment and have no place in this argument.how many shares do intel staff get, thats a long piece of string we could measure
Fair play to them
I wonder when these union members and workers are sitting down in the dark making millions of people suffer (including their own family and friends) at possibly the worst time of year to consider it,think,yeah………, this is worth it.
Putting on a good Poker face I see the ESb are.
Come the 16th, after 3 days of darkness if Ogle doesn’t get his pension top-up, what’s next? The water supply? Deliberate destruction of power stations?
Given his wanton disregard for his fellow citizens who pay their taxes and inflated electricity bills to keep him and his colleagues in the boom years lifestyle to which they have become self-entitled, is there a limit to the suffering he will inflict on innocent others in order to secure his own rewards?
Any staff that disrupt electricity supply should be imprisoned immediately.
Sorry if this is a stupid question but will the power be out for definite periods of time or is it complete blackout! I’m just asking so I can try to prepare!
Total blackout. As per the last time, factories will have to close, we will not have access to banks, traffic lights wont work, hospitals will close all bar ICU, which will only last on backup.
They will in essence bring the country to a standstill.
Yolo
The solution to the ESB strike lies within Ragononimics, like Regan did with the air traffic controllers “strike and you loose your job” the went on strike and lost their jobs.There is no place for strikes in the current economic climate. These workers got past rises when others were tasking pay cut or loosing their jobs, they are no better than the developers & bankers.
Have a container load of generators for sale…anyone interested ?
Stick em up on the journals sister site Adverts.ie you’ll make a killing. Lets just hope the ESB strikes don’t though
I suggest plugging the greedy pampered swine into the mains…… power to the people and all that!!
I fully support the strike. Absolutely outrageous behaviour from a semi-state body. If they successfully cut pensions in the ESB there is no doubt other companies will follow suit, for example M&S. Ashamed of the Irish people being blindly led by the media and government. Far is the generation from the men who fought for Ireland not so long ago.
Ok fine , why don’t we as consumers say if we are to be punished for no reason and have our supply cut off , why don’t we collectively inform them that any bills to be paid in January or February will be withheld , you cut us we cut you ,,, simple
Can I say, if Olgle Who is the one of the top union guys,his colleagues and the top guys in the ESB,who are all on Big Salaries,Subsidised by us the Tax Payer can’t solve this like civilised human beings,Maybe They Should All Be Sacked!When People Are In Positions Of Power For Too Long,They Get Too Cosy And Loose Touch With Reality !As We Have Seen With Our Past Goverments And Its Looking The Same With The Present Crowd!
I don’t expect the strike, if it goes ahead, to be as catastrophic for power supplies as people think. The fact is that less than 50% of the power generated in Ireland is generated by the ESB. That is a radically different scenario to the 1980s when it was 100%. More than 50% of power generation is now in private hands.
Yes but the ESB owns the transmission grid which all suppliers have to use.
Odd logic at play here: when people see well paid workers demanding that their rights be protected, instead of striving to get those conditions fro themselves they want to drag everyone down to their own level.
The reason the ESB workers are well paid is because they have the guts to join a union and stand together to demand reasonable pay and conditions. The reason the right-wing whingers on here have crap jobs and crap pay is because they act as individuals and are picked off one by one by their employers. It’s called solidarity and it works, but it takes guts.
Statement of “Internet” regarding…….??
Ye beat me to it. I’m assuming it’s supposed to be ‘intent’?
So after reading most of the comments above, I can see that you’re all pissed off with ESB staff, , but please remember that we are protecting a scheme that none of us had a choice in joining, but have paid into for over 25 years (in my case) , and will have to for the next 20 years. It’s hard to explain the finer details of the dispute, but no-one is prepared to lie down and be walked on especially when every time the govt needs more, they target paye workers like we have bottomless pockets ! ESB management have had plenty of chances to sort this out, but have buried their heads in the sand, and still do, and it is them that will let this industrial action go ahead on Dec 16th. I don’t feel happy about cutting off peoples power , I do it on planned outages, and see how it affects people, but how else do you make management take notice and listen. I am not happy about being called names and am not looking forward to the prospect of being abused whilst walking on my picket line, but I will not let a pack of cheats and liars put my pension in danger of vanishing into thin air.
Break the company up and privitise it. A joke that they can put a gun to the countries head.
Time to change. Get it over to a company like EDF. Then strike lads your replaceable.
I’ve found the solution!
ESB workers currently get free electricity and from now should be taxed on the discount as a Benefit In Kind. The tax collected will all go towards topping up their pension fund!
Every other household in the country has to pay a couple of thousand a year out of their net take home pay on power, priced far far above international standard rates because ‘Ireland is Special’.
If I worked for a supermarket and they gave me free bread, I’d be taxed on that. Why not ESB workers on their free electricity? Given ESB salary rates, the BIK would all be at the higher rate of tax.
Alternatively ESB stops giving staff free electricity and puts the money from staff power bills into the pension pot.
That’s what the staff want, fairness, isn’t it?
Strike and lose the support of the general public. You won’t win by holding us to random. Strike and I will be against you. Strike and I will wish you lose your jobs all together!
‘unions dispute committee’!?very ‘carry on at your convenience’.these clowns are beyond parody.by the way,i wonder how many esb workers have home generators on standby,that they doubtless acquired at little(or no)cost?just another perk of the job.
Classic last night an esb worker came into the pub and was refused service- brilliant
Why was my last comment deleted, does Kenneth work for the journal.ie?
I bet the ESB bill everyone will get will not reflect the loss of a days lecky nor will there be compensation for mushy defrosted food dripping all over our floors
Maybe it is time that the public who ultimately pay the bloated salaries in the ESB by being charged the highest energy prices in the EU mounted peaceful protests at the ESB facilities too
A bunch of thugs holding the country to ransom
Yes, the public should picket the pickets
P45s and let them starve it would be just reward for these disgusting criminals
How dare they threaten to turn off power to those most vulnerable. the elderly need their heat and light. not to mention the babies. what about the babies that need heat and hot water for their bottles. what about hospitals, garda stations, store alarms a.s.o. there are probably many other things. but those are what spring to my mind in an instant. if anything happens to any person if this strike goes ahead, the esb should be made pay big time. esb should not be allowed to strike by law, just like the garda and army.
A full year lockout would be just perfect :)
Maybe when people lose money over this or lose there jobs because of this or if an old person dies because they are too cold, maybe in protest the public should refuse to pay their ESB bills. Those on here supporting them will be the very ones ranting when they don’t have electricity.
Do what they did in the north of Ireland many years back and that was to bring in the Royal Marines to do the work of the scabs that were going to hold the country to ransom in the same way… so Government get off your ass and use your brains .. tell this lot of crooks that are about to destroy the country ” we are locking you out and bringing in the army to do your jobs” good luck finding a new job it worked a treat in The north.
I don’t believe the peoples essential & only electricity distribution grid run by ESB Networks should be used by any group of workers to make a point, it should be protected by legislation. Electricity supply companies can do whatever they like as they are no longer a monopoly.
What’s being missed here is the key question in all of this; if Enda Kenny’s pension (worse still, Bertie Aherne’s, Brian Cowan’s, Patrick Neary’s etc etc) is to be guaranteed from the monthly state cashflow, ie not reliant on the performance of an invested pension fund, well then why should anybodies?If they get a guaranteed pension, well why shouldn’t the ESB Network monopoly state grid operating company get them too, in fact why shouldn’t I get them as a private sector worker! I think we either all get them or nobody does. Where is the fair social contract between those who work privately to pay those to provide essential state services.
So, it’s actually about the fairness of some people in our country getting guaranteed pensions & some not. The problem here is that a small group of the ones who do not, have control over a piece of essential infrastructure that has been left exposed by those who do.
Pensions are paid proportionate to service, so if ESB staff go on strike they will break their service and consequently their entitlement, so the problem with the fund will be solved.Let them out!
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