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THE MINISTER for Justice has warned people that a new law regarding the use of reasonable force against intruders cannot be used as an excuse to attack someone.
Alan Shatter was speaking to Newstalk Breakfast as a new law giving homeowners the right to defend themselves, their families and their property against intruders in their own home comes into effect today.
The legislation concerns the use of ‘reasonable force’, which the minister described as force that’s in proportion to the threat someone perceives they are under. The level of force would depend on the individual circumstances.
“It’s not a licence to kill anyone,” the minister added.
‘Insufficient safeguards’
Mark Kelly, director of the Irish Council for Civil Liberties (ICCL), has criticised the legislation, saying its provisions “contain insufficiently robust legal safeguards to protect the right to life of householders or intruders”.
Kelly said yesterday that the law “encourages people to use lethal force to defend their property” and that the law is at odds with Article 2 (right to life) of the European Convention on Human Rights which he says “obliges the state to ensure that lethal force can only be used if absolutely necessary and strictly proportionate in all the circumstances.”
The Criminal Law (Defence and Dwelling) Act 2011 comes after intense debate over the use of force in self-defence following the death of John Ward in Co Mayo. He died after being shot while trespassing on the property of farmer Padraig Nally in October 2004.
Nally was convicted of manslaughter and sentenced to six years, but his conviction was overturned on appeal after the court accepted he had not been permitted to use self-defence as an argument at his trial.
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‘protect the right of life of the intruder’??
What a load of shite – that’s up there with ‘protect the careers of the bankers’ and ‘protect the future potential for the bankrupt developers’. Well done Alan Shatter.
This should of been our right from the outset, not being able to protect home or family. Again if someone gets into my home by jaysus I’ll let rip on them! But the flip side is that criminals now know that this law is here and I doubt it will act as a deterrent so they will enter homes now with some idea that the owners potentially will attack, fight fire with fire and intruders will now be armed to defend themselves! It’s a law a long time coming but we will see intruders AND householders hurt or killed
/facepalm
This law has not been a long time coming. Go to courts.ie, search for DPP-v-Barnes and actually read it.
This law is just putting into statute what has been in effect via case law and precedent since the 1300s.
Hell, there are citations in DPP-v-Barnes that are so old they predate *punctuation and regularised spelling in the English language*.
That people think there’s anything new in this Act is a depressing comment on what people know about their rights as human beings :(
@mark. Thank you! I’m glad someone else sees this as a rewrite of the status quo.
It’s like this if an intruder comes into my house now then he will be taken away in a wooden suit, I will protect my family and my property, hopefully this legislation will be a deterrent for these criminal scum. Padraig Nally you’re my hero.
What if I let my dogs do the dirty work? Will I be able to let my dogs defend my house and family or will they take them off of me after? But totally agree,no one is getting anything of mine for free and you can be damn sure they wont get near my offspring,I’ll be like an angry mama grizzly :D
@Emsy Wemsy
I saw a sticker once that said;
“This house is protected by Rottweiler Security Systems. Please remove any watches, false teeth or jewellery etc as this may affect the dogs digestion”
You may wanna see if you can find something similar for whatever breed you have :)
Mark Kelly from the civil liberties do gooders idiots. How about lowlife burglar scumbags freely use their license to live and remain unharmed by staying out of peoples property and get a job and contribute to society like everyone else? Get back to us on that one when you are after being terrified in your own house.
I sure Mr Kelly would soon change his mind on their rights if he came downstairs one night to find some shitebag standing in his kitchen with a knife. I’d say about half a second would do it.
Diego, that’s exactly the sort of situation he’s NOT talking about. The law, as it always stood, is that if you encounter an armed intruder in your house you have the absolute right to defend yourself. What you didn’t, and don’t, have the right to do is to capture, restrain and incapacitate an intruder and then *execute* them.
What Kelly is talking about is the fact that some people will see this new legislation (which, in fact, doesn’t change the legal standing of the situation at all) will be spun as giving householders the right to pursue and kill unarmed people off their property. This legislation is quite cynical in that it creates an *impression* the right to kill intruders is being expanded (when it is not) and there is a danger you’ll get people unknowingly exceeding the law because the government wanted to be seen as ‘doing something’.
Actually that’s not true Peter. Under the old law if you had the option to retreat from an intruder and didn’t you could be convicted of using “excessive force”. This was the one of this issues in the Padraig Nally case in 2004.
The law clarifies some of the confusion around what a homeowner can or can’t do when faced with an intruder. The new law now states that a homeowner does NOT have to retreat in a simliar circumstance.
James, that’s my point. The wording of this law simply makes the meaning of the existing law clearer – it clarifies the confusion that people had, rather than changing their actual entitlements under the law.
Timely reminder to stock up on shot gun cartridges before the local elections.
Time to dust off the saw DVDs for some inspiration
“Say hello to my little friend” Mr Intruder!!!
Pity there is no such law for houseowners to defend against unscrupulous taxes.
It’s called “The Vote”
“The Vote” doesn’t work in a one horse race. This flipping country, that I love, can’t get itself past the civil war. One side declared themselves unfit!!! and god forbid the electorate would consider outside the usual suspects. [despair face]
Reada, most voters disagreeing with you does not equal democracy not working…
You mean the vote where they make us all vote and vote again, till they finally get the answer they want?
That type of vote?
The way things are right now…anyone intruding on my property and threatening my family….yeah I’m really going to consider an intruders ‘civil liberties’…about as much as they consider mine…so I think I’ve made my point!
its about time homeowners have been given the right to protect themselves and thier families SUPER STUFF
Well said. Some common sense at last
Peter, this doesn’t actually expand homeowners’ right to protect themselves and their families at all. It’s a PR stunt. Any action against an intruder that was previously illegal is still illegal.
He looks a bit Pierse Broanan in that photo. My name is Shatter, Alan Shatter licence to bill you the household charge and bang you up in the joy if you don’t pay a contribution to my massive pension.
One letter out,replace the ‘a’ with an ‘i’
Sorry I’m dyslexic so if my phone can’t predict the word I just have to guess it, I know this is bad, particularly when it comes to someone’s name, but unfortunately 99% of apps don’t allow my to use the tools that can help with my dyslexia.
The content of your post was accurate Jay. Don’t know why someone would correct your spelling and then forget their punctuation. Full stop, anyone??? :-)
No guys,hahaha I’m so sorry,I thought you’d get the joke. I was taking the piss out of shatters name by changing it to shitter…. One letter out,get it??? Har har har ;) I don’t think you made any mistakes in your comment m’dear,sorry it was taken up that way!
Joke on me Emsy, glad to say. Nice one Emsy. Kudos to you. :-)
I just hate the way the spelling police correct spelling, etc and love to find when they make a mistake in theirs. But lmho at that. :D
IMHO intruders jettison their rights just outside the window their break in through.
Good news this law is in… It’s just the pity the elderly, frail and vulnerable who these dirty scum prey on don’t have the ability to protect themselves.
Lots of different circumstances. If no kids lock yourself in the room and call the guards. If kids in other bedroom you have to protect them with everything you got so It should be a licence to kill. If you go down the stairs of your house to find someone, you have no idea how many of them there are and if you have to deal with more, so first things first intruder no 1 has to have his lights out while you search for no 2. If the Hurley across the nut kills him so be it.
@Chris McDonnell I’m sorry but I have to disagree. I’ve worked hard for the things I own. I am not going to cower away and let some scumbag take or destroy these things while waiting for the Gardai to respond. Just because there are no children present doesn’t mean that they should get free reign in my home.
If an intruder(s) force entry into my home they should be prepared to face the consequences.
It’s “free rein”. As in horses.
Chris, I’d agree with you as far as that goes. The thing is you’ve ALWAYS been allowed do that. The controversy is over whether or not, hypothetically, if you discover the hurley across the nut has knocked him unconscious should you be allowed to continue beating the unconscious man with the hurley until he dies? The law did, and still does, say no. But some homeowners believe the law should be changed so they *are* allowed to do so.
All I need to say to any burglar mad enough to come into my house is: “they haven’t gone away, you know”.
Self defense is a basic human right and far too much emphasis is concentrated on the rights of the thugs and criminals. If I had to confront an intruder in my home their ,”rights” would not be very high on my list of priorities.
I don’t really care what the law states if I catch anybody in my house trying to hurt my family or steal our belongings they will be dealt with in a way that I deem to be appropriate & I can do crazy shit if it’s needed.
As the saying goes: “I’d rather be judged by twelve – than carried by six!”
What many people don’t realise is that burglars not only steal physical goods from people’s homes, they also rob people of their peace of mind. I really don’t know what civil liberties have to do with this issue. The robber is not on the public highway, they have entered someone’s home.
Another spectacular own goal by that shower of civil liberties gobs****s. Since when did or does any intruder have any f*****g rights inside my home or property? Why can’t that shower of civil liberties muppets just shut the f**k up for once and stop trying to defend something so idiotic and stupid as the human rights of burglars for the love of God.
Yee-haw! I’ve been waiting for this law for ages. Next time someone trying to sell something or doing a survey, knocks on my door when I’m playing Call of Duty,I’ll say I was afraid for my life and “thats why I gutted them your honor”.
Lol, you can bury them in the garden beside the charity collector, the census official and the postman!
As i have stated before on similar threads, people should like a fire have a plan in place. In case of an intruder the kids should be told to lock their doors and wait for mum and dad to call them. The parent(s) should call the gardai and should ALWAYS have some form of protection in their room. Me personally i have a gun safe with a legally held firearm and if needs be i will shoot an intruder and lose no sleep. You can always say they had a knife from the kitchen or tried to take your weapon. Just my opinion but if others want to roll over and cower good luck.
Fu*king dumbass. Of course this should be a “licence to kill” if needed. I should be allowed by this goddamn nanny state to protect my family and my property. Maybe then the burglary rate will drop as well.
i will throw my octopussy at the intruder then pull a moonraker
007….. Status: Active.
contain insufficiently robust legal safeguards to protect the right to life of householders or intruders”. ok .I leave a tray and some biscuits for any intruder that may happen by…
Cobblers!
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