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SCOTLAND’S FIRST MINISTER Nicola Sturgeon will seek approval next week for a second referendum on Scottish independence.
Next week she said she would seek the approval of the Scottish Parliament to open discussions with the UK government on the details of a Section 30 order – which will enable the Scottish Parliament to legislate for an independence referendum.
“I will stand up for Scotland’s interests during Brexit negotiations,” she said during a media briefing today from her Bute House residence in Edinburgh.
“Scotland will have a choice to follow [the rest of Britain out of Europe] or to become an independent country.
The timing [of Brexit] is not in the control of the Scottish government. What we know now, is the Brexit deal will be clear in the autumn of next year. That is the earliest point a referendum would be allowed.
“By taking these steps, I am ensuring that Scotland’s future will be decided [not just by the Scottish government] but by the people of Scotland. It will be Scotland’s choice.”
She maintained that the Scottish Nationalists’ manifesto says that a “significant or material change of public opinion or a change in circumstance” would provide a mandate for a second vote.
‘Brexit could puncture the Scottish boat’
Earlier, Sturgeon said the UK government had not “moved even an inch in pursuit of compromise and agreement” since the Brexit vote, which saw Scotland vote by 62% to 38% to remain in the EU, while the UK as a whole voted by a margin of 52:48% in favour of leaving.
Back in February of this year, a spokesperson for Theresa May said she “does not believe there should be a second referendum”.
The comment was sparked by a poll published that same day that revealed rising support for independence ahead of Britain’s departure from the European Union.
“We don’t believe that there should be a second referendum. There has been a referendum, it was clear, decisive, it was legal, and both sides agreed to abide by the results of that referendum,” the British government’s spokesperson said.
Questions, questions…
When asked if there was anything the British government could say, Sturgeon answered that would mean they’d have to say ‘something’.
“I don’t know if there’s any prospect of them saying something, because why haven’t they said anything to date. But I am open to discussions. The conduct of the government thus far… has forced me to make this announcement the day before Article 50 is triggered.”
When asked if there was a contradiction in asking for independence from the UK to remain in another union, the EU, Sturgeon said that Scotland doesn’t want to turn their backs on the rest of the UK.
“I’m arguing that we should continue to trade within the single market and within the UK. Scotland becoming independent does not mean turning our backs on the [UK]. I think it would create a genuine partnership of equals.”
She maintained that it was for the Scottish people to make the final decision: to follow the rest of the United Kingdom out of the EU and into whatever deal they make, or to become an independent country and to make their own deal with the UK and the EU.
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She seems like a good leader and one who stands up for her nation,fair play to her.
Name me 5 current leaders who don’t stand up for their nation?
Enda kenny Trump Putin Chinese head of state Myanmar head of state Just like all the other heads of state they could not give a rats arse for their people
Enda kenny
2 more for the list – Bashar al-Assad, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.
@Daithi Gazeley:
By the time of the referendum, Scotland will have hundreds of thousands of new young voters, the no side will have hundreds of thousands less.
Grow a pair of balls Scotland FFS.
Alba gu Bràth!
Bullshit. Wee Jimmy has centralised Scotland’s services on a scale even Thatcher couldn’t have managed, ignored half of Scotland’s voting population and stirred up divisions between Scotland and the rUK with her regular ‘blame the English’ dogwhistle politics.
@Damocles:
Are you disputing any of the names put forward above?
@Daithi Gazeley: She’s a terrible leader all she’s good for is parochial parish pump crap, her party has managed to run Scottish services into the ground if you were to look at their record in government and the reaction of the Scottish press/ public’s to her party’s policies and record in government.
Yeah yere man who runs China and the dude in charge of Myanmar…
That’s clearly an informed opinion.
All the leaders mentioned, whether they actually care deeply about the man in the street is irrelevant, they all do stand up for their country on the world stage. Because that is what they are there to do. No world leader goes “Ah, I wouldn’t bother with us, we’re a bit crap.” Not even Enda Kenny.
@Daithi Gazeley
And for Scotland it is possible however there are many provisos , they will need a currency, access to Europe, higher oil prices, a system sorted out regarding public services, taxes, pensions, and all the other mundane vital aspects of daily life sorted out, none of this was properly put in place before the last vote, and I do not see it happening before the next vote, sentiment is fine but the practical aspects have to be in place before a vote and as yet we have little to no movement on the above.
@Damocles: The first minister of Scotland like the first ministers of Northern Ireland and Wales have not been given the powers or the role of “standing up for their nation on the world stage”. That would be like the governor of Wyoming bypassing the US president. The PM of the UK does that.
@Damocles: Kenny would say “What do you want us to do next frau Merkel? and can I take this broom out of my arse now?”
Bring on a Reunification Referendum for our little island!
One of the functions of these first ministers is to represent their area at home and abroad. Even Carwyn Jones is responsible for representing Wales abroad. He just seems to get on with it though.
Enda Kenny is not head of state.
And the nuclear fallout from Cameron’s spectacularly failed gamble continues. He only offered the Brexit referendum in the first place for his own political purposes as a means to frustrate the rise of UKIP and to placate the Euro sceptics within the Tory party. And when he made the referendum commitment it looked extremely unlikely that the Tories would be returned with an overall majority. If returned to government, the plan was to have their coalition partners (most likely the Lib Dems) block the referendum.
And of course when the referendum was forced upon them they were confident that the weight of establishment propaganda would swing the day as it usually does in the case of the illegal Iraq war for example. Unfortunately for Cameron, the Tories and most of the parliamentary Labour party they were met with mass working class revolt on Brexit.. That’s why the capitalist elites have a deep abhorrence of real democracy as they understand that they are in a tiny minority. I’d be lying if I said it wasn’t enjoyable to watch the elite’s horror and confusion in the face of a rare outburst of democracy.
ANY POLITICIANS FROM IRELAND THATS 100s
@Daithi Gazeley: She’s playing to the SNP base, I doubt there is even going to be a referendum in Scotland. Westminster is not going to stupid enough to let them have a vote now. Especially after the mess of 2014
Its a non issues because nothing is going to happen
I know, he’s a head of cabbage.
http://m.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/article/2052476/forced-evictions-are-destroying-society-china-and-elsewhere https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2016/11/17/asia/myanmar-rohingya-aung-san-suu-kyi/index.html
And let’s not forget Mugabee.
We can’t look after what we have and your hoping for more. There’s a place for people like you and it’s called the poor house.
She wants to be queen of Scotland !
@the edge. Can you imagine the fallout if they refused a referendum. There would be a massive and probably unstoppable surge for independence if they did that
Theresa May says she is representing the whole of the UK but she is forcing 48% into a hard Brexit which they didn’t vote for to please her backbenchers and she accuses Sturgeon of playing politics? Irony is dead.
@Finn Bowe: I cannot imagine it happening Finn, because the latest polls today show 52% want to remain in the Union. So I don’t see where your surge in support for Indyref2 is going to come from.
@the edge. 48% is a good starting point considering last time it was around 30%. Personally I think it is very hard to call, a lot will come down to brexit negotiations and how snp can use it to there advantage
End a Kenny for one!
Reunification with the uk.
Well, if the Uk leaves the Eu is arguably finished anyway. A growing number of people in other Eu countries are already disillusioned with the current state of affairs in the Eu. Anti Eu sentiment has increased in Holland and France. In particular due to disagreement around immigration and dilution of National sovereignty and identity.
@Brendan McGill: Would you be that cruel to northern people, what have they ever done t deserve being ruled from Dublin?
@Benjy Mooney: You put a lot of effort into that and I gave you a thumbs up. I would just add that I believe a UK referendum would have happened at some time and would have passed. I don’t like being labeled as working class as it am a coal delivery man and a citizen of Ireland. One thing i cannot understand is why the establishment feel the status quo should never change? If you give suffrage (votes) to all, surely its is common sense to expect they will use it.
@Finn Bowe: Brexit is not the main thing that is going to block the Scottish. Its the EU who will make them reapply for membership once Brexit happens. I note there seems to be a few village idiots red thumbing my comments. Go ahead my ostrich friends keep your heads buried in the sand and believe the fantasy that Mrs Sturgeon is trying to paint.
But the hard facts are that: Scotland doesn’t have the political power to retain its EU membership or even to declare an IndyRef. Then on top of that the they don’t have an economic budget that confirms to EU rules.
Ye’ll neva’ take ar freedom…..
Unless you make it worth our while…
Wee Nicola Krankie
Like any good politician she’ll take the pension and feck off to her holiday home in Portugal – leaving the next generation to clear the mess http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/03/04/scotlands-dire-economy-falling-behind-uk/
Cowardly name calling from certain people in the six counties won’t change this brave and dignified stand for the betterement of her people.
A couple of years ago it seemed a jump in the dark and unthinkable to some – now unthinkable is the new normal – makes sense to vote again when it’s clearer what brexit really means
Scotland has been running a budget deficit of 10% each year since and including 2003.
That puts it firmly in bailout territory.
Taxpayers in England have been stumping up the difference.
An independent Scotland will have to impose severe austerity if it becomes independent and no matter if it is allowed to join the EU or not.
Do you have a link to back up your statement?
@John O Chrualaoich:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/08/25/scotlands-budget-deficit-the-largest-in-europe-couldnt-join-the-eu-if-it-wanted-to/#7bc18fa433a5
Granted it is a few years old.
http://www.businessforscotland.com/new-figures-confirm-that-scotland-would-have-been-8-3-billion-better-off-an-independent-country/
A great article which is not backed up, by a Contributor to Forbes magazine paid to write an article, which is questioned squarely in the comments. Any link which hasn’t been paid for?
Very good. It will be interesting to see how this affects the majority remain vote on Brexit in the 6 counties. FF are already moving to publish proposals regarding reunification.
Interesting times ahread……
@The Risen: Interesting, but also a serious risk of more troubles/terrorism. And I won’t believe a Brexit happens until I actually see it. The UK can call another referendum, just like the Scots are proposing to do now.
@Mr Snuffleupagus: I can’t see them holding another referendum, hasn’t support for Brexit only increased since last year.
@Mr Snuffleupagus: The UK parliament, in the whole history of its existence, has never failed to act on the results of a referendum.
Snuffle> not a chance of another UK referendum. If they did it would be more likely a landslide to leave. Not because people want to leave more but because they wouldn’t like be told to revote. Cameron messed up by not setting turn out and a level for a win. It was very close and only idiots say otherwise.
The UK has already committed to the potential of unification in the Good Friday Agreement, but it seems a long way to a UK commitment to Indyref2. So it’s not too wild an idea that there might be Irish unity first. And then the question would be how that might in turn affect the Scottish appetite for independence. Although it’s possible that with a province already gone, Westminster might even more strongly oppose a second referendum.
I hear she also wants a rerun of Saturday’s match because she didn’t like the result.
Brexit is a game changer and affects the very nature of what people agreed to stay with. The agreed to stay within the UK as a member of the EU. Scotland voted to stay in the EU so a new vote is warranted.
@Damocles: what a stupid comment, a major part of the last referendum result was influenced by the threats that an independent Scotland would be out of the EU and that the best way to ensure membership was to vote no.
What, you mean the same ‘threats’ that were issued by none other than the head of the EU Commission himself? They weren’t threats, they were bald statements of fact.
Good comparison there, a football match and national sovereignty. Totally the same thing…
@Kal Ipers: That’s pretty disingenuous. At the time of the vote, it was Conservative party policy that if they won the 2015 election, they would hold an in-out referendum on a renegotiated package before the end of 2017. It is not a totally unforeseen state consequence. It is a possibility which was front and centre of political discourse even as Scots walked into the polling booths.
Damocles – I’m surprised you have an Internet connection under that bridge
Ben> Nothing disingenuous at all. Possibility of leaving the EU was there but it seemed unlikely and most importantly it hadn’t happen. The Scots didn’t have an option to leave UK and stay in the EU at the time. They now do which is radically different situation from the last vote.
@Shakka1244:
“Damocles – I’m surprised you have an Internet connection under that bridge”
Surely, he has that Internet connection under a sword (Sorry! I couldn’t resist!).
@Harry Whitehead: We will see if the Queen signs up to Theresa Mays brexit timetable first. Then we will know if the British royal family are worth their salt or just going along for the free ride.
A wise, timely and shrewd move by Sturgeon. Two extremely arrogant and delusional Westminster politicians Heidi Alexander and Andrew Mitchell spouting disgusting views towards Sturgeon on BBC as I type. The English choice for Brexit means that the UK in its current form will end in the next few years. I will be astonished if more than a third of Scots vote to stay in UK.
I suggest you look at the economics not just the politics. Scotland spends 10% more than it earns in tax revenue for the past 15 years. The difference is made up by the taxpayer in England.
Scotland would need to take full control of North Sea oil and hope it jumps above $100 a barrel for the next 20 years when North Sea oil runs out. US fracking means that will never happen.
Spain says it will veto any moves by Scotland to join EU. If Scotland does somehow join, it will have to abide by 2% borrowing target – meaning severe austerity. If it doesn’t join, it will have to borrow on the open market, which won’t lend to a country outspending its income at that level – so severe austerity or bailout and severe austerity.
Scotland needs to stop spending so much and get its budget deficit down and then the SNP can start campaigning for independence.
@Ó Connmhaigh:
Scotland’s deficit only matters because it’s denominated in a currency which they don’t issue. The same applies to Ireland.
Nations such as Britain which do issue a floating currency don’t face any budget constraint within that currency. They don’t need to tax or borrow in or order to finance government spending. The spend the currency into existence as they wish and the then tax it back out of circulation in a continuous flow.
For the state/currency issuer, money is simply a tool to measure and allocate real resources produced collectively by society through the labour of the working class.
@Ó Connmhaigh: A valid point, but in this case the economics aren’t going to be the principle issue that the Scots will have to contend with if their straw poll is going to take place. They will first have to face the constitutional issue of getting the power to hold a referendum (which won’t happen with this current Tory Government in power). Then if they somehow get pass that, they’ll have to find a way to get pass the insurmountable obstacle to staying in the EU. An EU that is opening hostile to them staying and if they were to try and rejoin the EU. Spain will veto their membership application anyway
No matter what angle you look at this issue from, there is little chance of an Independent Scotland ever seeing the light of day. And that frankly from an Irish economic POV is a GOOD thing for us in the long term.
@Benjy Mooney: Then why is the UK’s national debt nearly £2 trillion?
Also money is a measurement of value produced by anyone, not just resources and not just the working class.
@Richard:
The U.K’s national debt is irrelevant. It’s serviced va keystrokes at the Bank Of England, nothing more. In fact they could not @borrow@ the sterling reserves unless they had created then in the first place. The only source of sterling reserves is the British state. They can’t come from anywhere else:
“You don’t need to understand all of that to get the main point: sovereign governments don’t need to borrow their own currency in order to spend! They offer interest-paying treasury securities as an instrument on which banks, firms, households, and foreigners can earn interest. This is a policy choice, not a necessity. Government never needs to sell bonds before spending, and indeed cannot sell bonds unless it has first provided the currency and reserves that banks need to buy the bonds……”
http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2014/06/modern-money-theory-basics.html
If the whole yUK were to vote on Scottish independence, it might be a landslide and lots of waving goodbye.
As things stand at present, Scotland would probably be the northern Greece…..and Nicola would spend the rest of her days moaning about the other nations not bailing her out.
Wally> You really are clueless. A debt certainly matters regardless of what currency it is in. Other countries own debt and don’t accept your devalued currency as payment. If the UK sudden devalued their currency and tried to pay back in sterling worth less than the loan. Argentina did exactly what you said is possible and they didn’t do to well did they.
Blue Marigold. .. most of us over here in the U.K. would be happy to see Scotland…Wales..& N. Ireland.
‘Go it alone ‘. It would save a very large fortune ! for us all in little old England.
Kal, Nope. The government bond holder is repaid in the denominated currency and have precisely no choice in the matter. If an institution holds a sterling denominated bond they will be repaid in sterling regardless of the exchange rate.
And Britain doesn’t devalue it’s currency in any case. It’s floating currency which appreciates and depreciates on FC markets. Devaluation is only applicable to currencies which are pegged to something like the Yuan and the dollar. In that case China can take decision to change the peg and devalue as they did last year.
Now go and inform yourself you macroeconomic illiterate Kal.
YES! #IndyRefNew
As before, Spain will threaten to veto Scottish entry to the EU so as not to encourage Basque or Catalan independence. Also other countries with separatist movements like Belgium will say the same. Sturgeon has no answer to this.
@Rosa Parks: Brexit changes this. the two scenarios are no longer the same.
@Rosa Parks: Scotland does not want to ENTER the EU, they just don’t want to LEAVE.
They have no choice, the UK is a member of the EU not Scotland. They go to the back of the queue if/when the EU decide to take new members again. The point is moot though because Mrs May has said no and it’s up to the Commons, which she controls, to allow Scotland hold a referendum.
Rosa. What Spain has said is that a independent Scotland would have to re apply for membership as a independent state and that it could be lengthy and difficult. They have never said in this scenario they would block eu membership. They have also said the case of Catalonia and Scotland are completely different
Hopefully the good people of Scotland find their cajones this time and vote for their independence. Mind boggling that they turned it down first time round.
Mind boggling that in this day and age people are still advocating political separatism for no reason other than ‘sticking it to the English’. Grow up.
@Harry Whitehead:
Where did I say that was my motivation? Or do you somehow claim to speak for people no matter what?
Oh I dunno Tyrone, anyone who reads this site even occasionally might have noted your major bugbear with ‘the Brits’ in about half a million other comments on different articles.
The fact that you choose to insult Scots by implying their decision to vote No in the last IndyRef was because they were spineless says rather a lot. Nothing whatsoever to do with personal preference. Or Unionism. Or mistrust in the SNP’s lack of answers to sinlle questions. Nope, choosing to remain part of the UK must equal a negative character trait in your book. Projection projection projection…
@Harry Whitehead:
“Bugbear with the brits”? I have no issue with the British people. So again (we’ve literally only just been over this) – maybe stop trying to speak for me. Do I have a bugbear with the British Government? The one that occupies part of Ireland and is to this day covering up it’s orchestrated campaign of assassination of Irish citizens through loyalist paramilitary proxys? Yeah, I do have a bugbear with them. Does that mean my belief that Scotland should vote for it’s independence is based on nothing more than “sticking it to the brits”? Hardly. So once again, you can’t speak for me…is that sinking in at all? Could it be that I believe that it is wrong that the people of Scotland, like those of us in the six counties, should be part of a constitutional arrangement where their can be forced down treacherous roads they don’t want to go down but have to due to English and Welsh voters? Could it be that I believe that a country with it’s own culture and heritage is worthy of it’s own independence? Could it be that I believe a weakened UK might lessen the desire of unionists in the six counties to remain within said UK, given that their emotional attachment lies much more with Scotland than with England and Wales? Shall I go on?
P.s. Why do you feel the need to translate the name?
Please don’t try that feeble ‘forced down roads by England’ approach. It’s an argument that only holds true if you believe in the laughably hollow premise that England, Scotland and Wales vote as collective hive minds depending what side of the border they were born on. London alone has more people than the whole of Scotland put together – Londoners A) didn’t get the government we wanted on 2015 and B) didn’t get the result we wanted in the EU referendum last year. Should we also claim independence?
For someone who believes in Irish unification meanwhile you seem to have a weird perception of what motivates NI unionists. Like all tribalists they define themselves not by what they claim they are, but by what they claim they are not – ie Irish. Arlene and co really couldn’t care less if the UK vanished into thin air – all that matters is that they resist being absorbed into what they view as the land of Pope-worshipping Fenians. Do you REALLY imagine they’ll suddenly drop their resistance to the rest of Ireland just because Scotland leaves the UK?
@Harry Whitehead:
“Please don’t try that feeble ‘forced down roads by England’ approach.”
Of course you don’t want me to go down that road, because you know it is absolute fact. The parallels with London just don’t stack. It is a city. Scotland is it’s own entity – with it’s own history, heritage and culture. Of course people on different sides of the border have different mindsets. Most of North England voted for Brexit. Cross the border and most opposed it. Why should the people of Scotland or the people of the six counties forever allow the people of England and Wales determine their future on their behalf and force them to go down roads that their people made abundantly clear that they do not want to go down. Further to that, there is evidence that over 50% of Scottish people would vote for their independence from the UK. The latest polls suggest that they want this referendum to happen. That being the case, it is only right and proper that they are given the opportunity to have their referendum. Or maybe you are of the belief that the people of Scotland should also be denied that right by English MPs?
@Harry Whitehead: Bang on the mark.
I recommend you avoid that road because it’s not a fact at all. It’s a factOID. It’s a nationalist trope. Your dismissal of London because it’s a city (tell that to Hong Kongers or Singaporeans and see what sort of reaction you get) is very telling in itself. Those who advocate separatism love cherrypicking their criteria for who is worthy of self-determination and who isn’t – if they didn’t it would expose how shaky their foundations are. If border are the only things that determine mindsets, explain why England alone shows NOWHERE NEAR uniformity in its voting patterns. Explain why northern England voted differently from London? Or why most large cities voted Remain (a fact often obscured by being tallied alongside their Leave-voting surrounding areas)? Or why nearly 4/10 Scots still voted Leave? Or why, if the EU is as important to Scots as Wee Jimmy claims, the turnout for the referendum was the lowest in the UK when they knew full well what was at stake?
Here’s an actual concrete fact for you: if every person who voted in Scotland had voted Remain (and yes, that’s on THE SAME low turnout) it would have swung the entire UK vote in favour of Remain. SNP supporters hate being reminded of this…can’t imagine why…
Harry , absolutely ignorant comment. People voted yes last time and will again for a variety of reasons. I must ask my English wife why she voted yes last time.
Finn, I don’t doubt there are – I’m pointing out however that there are CERTAIN types of idiot out there for whom it very clearly is the case. The same people who keep regurgitating the ‘Empire’ tropes. The same people who cook up terms like ‘Engsplaining’. The same people who make sneering comments about the Welsh being ‘subservient’ purely because nationalism is less strong in Wales. And if you’re goig to pretend no foreigners project their own bigoted setiments into the equation when they accuse Scots of having ‘bottled it’ in 2014, you’re being rather naive.
It could be argued that the UK that Scotland voted to remsin in is fundamentally different to that post Brexit and therefore they have a right to a new referendum. It could equally be argued that having voted to remain they accepted to be bound by the results of referenda of all the UK and did not vote for an a la carte nationhood.
They were told the results of the brexit ref weren’t binding when Westminster refused to agree to a threshold/turnout or country by country vote
They already voted. She lost. Yes, the circumstances are now different with a Brexit on the horizon, but the fact remains Scotland chose to stay and that should be respected.
Stupid and ignorant comment
@Mr Snuffleupagus: They voted to stay in the UK, not leave the EU.
@Niamh Kenneally: And the UK voted to leave, do try and keep up.
@Mr Snuffleupagus:
I agree, you can’t call a referendum every time something happens that Scotland disagrees with. If say Theresa May wins the 2020 election on a manifesto of tightening public spending will that mean Indyref3 on the basis that Scotland voted for parties against said tightening of the belt?
@Revolting Peasant – Scotland voted to stay in UK largely on the basis of assurances (lies) from Cameron that UK’s future was in EU. Tories eh !!! In their 2015 election manifesto they pledged no new taxes … In the Budget last week taxes rose.
@Blue MARIGOLD: If Scotland voted for independence it would have guaranteed an EU exit. A vote for retaining the union was not a guarantee of an EU exit even though the dogs on the street knew what was happening, so it ended up being damned if they did or didn’t but it was not a vote on EU membership it was a vote on their place in the United Kingdom and all that, that entails. Anti/Pro EU and Anti/Pro Independence are not the same thing.
And as for lying politicians, same there as here, but probably worse there.
Staying in the UK entails a permanent exit from the EU, becoming independent does not. Yes the politicians lie everywhere, but clearly worse here (lack of sanctions being the main reason)
@Blue MARIGOLD: Voting out is voting for exit from the UK and EU as the EU won’t let them in and they will have to reapply to join the bloc
@Blue MARIGOLD: Perfidious Albion. What’s new?
@Revolting Peasant:
*sigh
And during the Brexit vote how did Scotland vote? To remain in the EU with over 60% in favour.
Do keep up.
@Niamh Kenneally: It was a UK vote petal, you know across the whole of the union. There were regional differences, there always will be in that kind of situation but on the whole across the whole of the UK the majority voted to leave. Do you get it yet?
Ye’ll neva’ take ar freedom…….
Unless you make worth our while!
Can’t argue with the logic of it, Brexit is a game changer. Many people voted to stay in the UK because it was the only way to remain in the EU, now the complete opposite has happened.
However, if she loses this time, it really is settled for at least a generation.
I’m an Irish man on Scotland. I voted yes before. I’ll vote yes again.
Scotland is perfectly capable of being a successful small country. It’s rich in resources, with a highly educated and skilled population. Absolutely no intrinsic region why we can’t do this.
Spain will never let them join the EU. She is off her nut. Straight away Catalonia would also declare its independence.
The Scots wont leave.
The EU? Oh yes they will if they declare independence. Amazing how people still don’t seem to grasp quite how this whole independence malarky works. When the USSR broke up, all the newly independent states (apart from Russia) had to reapply for just about everything including UN membership. For Clan Sturgeon to claim iScotland would automatically retain EU membership is either grand delusion or a barefaced lie.
Harry
The UK
@Mumpsimus:
True, all Spanish political parties say they are opposed to Scottish membership of EU and will use their power of veto to stop it
@Mumpsimus: The East Germans had no problem getting into the EU when they unified Germany. So maybe the Scots should be thinking of a reunification with Ireland. I’m sure if we go back in time we can find some point in history when we were nominally unified. After all, the Scotii were an Irish tribe.
As far as I can see Spain has never said that After Scottish independence they would block their bid for eu membership ,they have said the case of Scotland and catatonia are completely different.
They have said they would have to reapply as a new state and it may be difficult.
Also , I imagine this the the Scottish position will be to campaign for single market access not full membership
@Mumpsimus: If Scotland became independent from the rest of the UK then Spain would be willing to deal with Scotland.
She’s walking into a trap by pandering to the hardcore SNP base. May did not rule out further devolution for nothing recently, it was because Sturgeon keeps bringing this up. She’d have a much better case for independence if she first works with May to try and get a good deal for Scotland, and, most probably, fail. The way it looks now, Sturgeon is simply setting up a way for May to eventually say, OK, have you referendum, while there’s not going to be a clear majority for it for some time to come. The SNP would lose a second time, and that’ll be the end of it.
@Mick Tobin:
This is a very foolish rush of blood, she would have been far better served waiting to see how Brexit plays out first and then gauging the public mood for independence. If she was seen to have first attempted to find a compromise then her hand would be much stronger.
@Mick Tobin: Scotland doesn’t need to ask for Westminsters permission to hold a referendum, they just need to agree the timing.
@Chris Kirk: You mean like Catalonia? Sure, it’s possible to hold one and proclaim independence, but that’ll be without Westminster’s recognition of legality. And with Brexit, i.e. continued EU membership being the idea of having Indyref2 in the first place, Scotland can then forget about the support from Spain that they’ll absolutely need.
Don’t get me wrong, I strongly support Scottish independence, but I’m afraid the strategy employed here may not be the smartest.
@Mick Tobin: Scotland is a devolved nation government within the UK and can make its own decisions as to holding a referendum. The question comes down to the terms of brexit and how this sits with the Scottish government if they decide to put independence to a vote under the new post brexit arrangement. Theresa May is playing fast and loose with the devolved governments and using the majority English vote to her own advantage.a
She can’t call a referendum she lacks the power to do so, her stupid grandstanding isn’t going to achieve anything. If we were to take the polls as a measuring stick a significant amount of people in Scotland do not want a 2nd referendum. And if we were to look at the two previous referendums the Independence one in 2014 and the more recent referendum on European Union membership more people voted in the independence than in the Brexit one. It is the height of hypocrisy that she believes she can ignore one and champion the result of another which was an UK wide vote not one that was done on the home nation level. If she succeeds in getting the PM to agree to another referendum and win it she would manage to get Scotland out of the United Kingdom and the European Union at the same time. Especially when Scotland does 4 times the amount of trade the rUK as it does with the rest of the European Union. The economic arguments for independence in the original independence referendum have been thoroughly discredited as it was based off oil being sold at a minimum of 100 US Dollars a barrel a figure which Alex Salmond described as “Conservative”. However the price of oil is barley scrapping 50 dollars. So where is all of this money going to come from? And on one final note an independent Scotland will be forced to the back of the queue for membership as the European Union has no mechanism for pieces of nations being able to break off and retain membership. And even if it manages not to flat line in the mean time before its considered for membership all the nations of the EU will have to agree unanimously whether to let it in or not. Which would mean Spain would never let it in as its trying to prevent the Basque and Catalonian peoples from breaking off from their nation. Since if Soctland is let in then every other independence movement in Europe will start clamoring for separatism.
Just because some people did not want another referendum does not mean that when it comes it will not vote yes
*they
Wee Jimmy makes Ultimatum #173…and people wonder why they don’t take her or her tartan-patterned UKIP movement seriously.
“Alex Salmond today pledged there would not be a second Scottish independence referendum for another generation even if he loses Thursday’s contest by a single vote.
The First Minister indicated there would not be another referendum for at least another 18 years, dismissing concerns the separatists would pursue a “never-endum” strategy by calling for another vote as soon as possible. …
Mr Salmond confirmed the referendum would settle the independence matter for a generation, citing as an example of the minimum interval the devolution referendums of 1979 and 1997.
Challenged by [Andrew] Marr unequivocally to confirm there would not be a referendum sooner, he said: “That’s my view. This is a once in a generation opportunity, perhaps even a once in a lifetime, opportunity for Scotland.” “
Just heard that appalling witch Theresa May say that the wishes of the Scottish people in the previous independence referendum must be respected. What about the wishes of the majority of Scottish people in last year’s referendum – any respect there ??!!
@Blue MARIGOLD: more people voted in the 2014 one than the 2016 one so logically the 2014 represents the scottish people more than the 2016 referendum
Fair play to the Scottish for setting out their stall in the post brexit era. Independence should be a democratic right of citizens and clearly the Westminster government don’t see it that way. I hope that Irelands example can be an inspiration to Sturgeon. Time for Northern Ireland to stand up to the plate.
@Chris Kirk: The UK can’t wait to ditch northern ireland, let’s be honest. Who would want the bill for it?
@Scundered: Did the UK ditch the Falkland Islands when Argentine came calling……
What’s she gonna do when the EU start asset stripping Scotland in return for some magic bean euros?
An independent Scotland within the EU would be a formidable competitor to Ireland for FDI.
Irelands interests are in the whole of the UK leaving the single market, leaving us to gorge on the market access alone.
@Fred Jensen: An independent Scotland would be a powerful voice for spoken English in the EU and a path to trade.
Great, we’re talking leadership here!
She’s a strong leader! She’s clever too. Scotland is in a really strong position. Nicola made the right call at the right time. The SNP have the majority in Scotland so it will pass in the Scottish parliament.
She’s gonna put the squeeze on Westminster who for centuries have being playing games with other countries and can’t be trusted. Any agreement they make cannot be guaranteed. History shows this to be true. In the last indyref vote . There was ‘The Promise’. Which turned out to be another promise broken.
The biggest opponents to Scottish independence will be those wealthy elite who own vast estates in the Scottish highlands but lives in London who financial interests will be hit hardest. Role on indyref2. I hope Scotland finally puts the interests of the people of Scotland first and foremost.
She can want all she wants but big brother down in Westminster won’t allow her to fart never mind another referendum. It’s a big like Ireland really just keep voting until you get the desired result. Most of the scots want lizzy as there queen.
Referendums: picking up the slack from the decline of the X Factor.
Politics: the ultimate reality TV, starring all of us, we all get a say.
Andy Warhol was a genius.
.
This is not about independence it’s about who they want to be a bitch to.
Dont think Scotland will vote to leave the UK …Scottish independence needs oil.at $150 a barrel….Even if they did Spain would veto any attempt to joint the EU or the Euro…Catalan effect…
Nicola’s pissed with the result on saturday.
To be honest I think it’s too soon since the first one
Scots will bottle it again
Sturgeon has mugged off May badly here.
Stupid mistake from Scotland stay with the uk
England would be £12.1bn pa better off without Scotland. Bring it on.
And the cash cow: oil/aberdeen has left the building. Thousands lost their jobs. What now just whiskey? Maybe Trump can save the day and expand his golf course-i jest. No, if Scotland was independent they would be broke. damn broke.
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