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'He expanded the definition of us': Clinton's tribute to McGuinness, as thousands pay respects

The former US President drew laughter from the crowd as he paid tribute to McGuinness.

Martin McGuinness funeral PA Wire / PA Images PA Wire / PA Images / PA Images

Updated 6.20pm 

FORMER US PRESIDENT Bill Clinton called on the North’s political leaders to continue Martin McGuinness’s work in the peace process as he spoke this afternoon at St Columba’s Church.

The funeral of the former Northern Ireland Deputy First Minister took place in his native Derry this afternoon.

Thousands lined the streets of the city hours before the funeral procession was due to leave McGuinness’s Bogside home.

Alongside Clinton, major political figures like former First Minister Peter Robinson and former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern also attended the ceremony.

Taoiseach Enda Kenny and President Micheal D Higgins were also among the congregation.

Martin McGuinness funeral Bill Clinton and Gerry Adams - with Taoiseach Enda Kenny in the foreground. Niall Carson Niall Carson

Bill Clinton received a warm welcome from the crowd and drew laughter several times as he spoke. Referring to the often-remarked-upon friendship that McGuinness struck up with Ian Paisley, he quipped: “I thought that it was great that he got a word in edgewise.”

McGuinness had made “honourable compromises,” he said.

He never stopped being who he was – a good husband, good father and a passionate believer in a secure self-governing Ireland, said Clinton.

He “expanded the definition of ‘us’, and shrunk the definition of ‘them’”.

McGuinness’s wife Bernadette and their children Grainne, Fionnuala, Fiachra and Emmet, and grandchildren, were all present in the church.
https://www.facebook.com/rtenews/videos/1616570611705268/

The service was presided over by Bishop Donal McKeown, Bishop of Derry. Fr Michael Canny was chief celebrant.

McGuinness was as “a complex man” and “a remarkable man,” Fr Canny said.

He “came to be a widely respected leader of this community, someone who has been acknowledged in recent days as a politician who spent year after year moving this community towards peace”.

He said that by any standards, Martin McGuinness was:

A remarkable man and his life was a remarkable journey. The values he had, the principles he championed are still very much alive.

TheJournal.ie / YouTube

Fr Canny continued:

There are people in this church today whose presence would have been unthinkable only a generation ago.
They have forged working relationships with Martin McGuinness; they have built friendships with him; they have occupied Stormont’s benches alongside him.
Some have even sat in government with him.  You are all very, very welcome.
The presence of those political rivals and opponents among you, who have come to pay their respects this afternoon, is the most eloquent testimony to the memory of Martin McGuinness.

Fr Canny said that Martin McGuinness had visited the White House, Downing Street and Windsor Castle, but “only ever felt at home in his beloved Bogside, returning to his wife and family at every opportunity”.

The priest said that he had many conversations with McGuinness down through the years “and he knew only too well how many people struggled with his IRA past”.

Republicans were not blameless, and many people right across the community find it difficult to forgive and impossible to forget.

He noted how Martin McGuinness had embraced peace, saying:

On that journey many years ago, Martin realised that the time for peace had come and he pursued the peace process with relentless energy for the rest of his days, until illness finally struck him down.  In the course of that journey he encountered many obstacles but he remained resolute.
In conversation he often repeated that there was no other way, we had to continually work for the building of peace and a better future for all. Despite many setbacks he never became disheartened.

Martin McGuinness funeral Michelle O'Neill and Mary Lou McDonald flank Gerry Adams. PA Wire / PA Images PA Wire / PA Images / PA Images

 

Gerry Adams, the Sinn Féin President, delivered the graveside oration.

“This week, Ireland lost a hero. Derry lost a son,” he said.

Rights are at the heart of the struggle of for Irish freedom, he told mourners.

It’s all about rights; Civil rights, human rights, religious rights, language rights, LGBT rights, social and economic rights, rights for women, national rights, the right to freedom.
So, here at the graveside of this good man, let me appeal to our unionist neighbours.
Let us learn to like each other, to be friends, to celebrate and enjoy our differences and to do so on the basis of common sense, respect and tolerance for each other and everyone else as equals.
Let me appeal also to nationalists and republicans; do nothing to disrespect our unionist neighbours or anyone else.
Stand against bigotry. Stand against sectarianism. Respect our unionist neighbours. Reach out to them.
Lead, as Martin led, by example.

Before the ceremony began, the Taoiseach, Adams and Clinton all paid their respects to the McGuinness family inside the church.

President Higgins was also at the funeral of Derry City FC captain Ryan McBride in the city – at the same church – earlier today.

Hundreds of mourners lined the streets of the city to pay their respects to McBride, who died suddenly on Sunday.

Our reporter @ronanduffy_ is in Derry and will be tweeting updates this afternoon. 

Read: ‘He was brave and knew no fear’ – Derry bids farewell to inspirational captain Ryan McBride >

 

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138 Comments
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    Mute Kate Flaherty
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 1:09 PM

    The English crept in on the Irish in the 1700′s under the guise of bringing civilisation to what they saw as savages, with the help of the famine and the famine ships they obliterated the population, they confiscated our land, tried to decimate our culture and language and looked on in annoyance when the savages rose in revolt, the English have never been the oppressed, always the oppressors, their actions were tantamount to genocide, Palestine is relatively mild when you compare it to the troubles of the 60′s, 70′s and 80′s, Martin Mc Guinness and men like him were not born to go to war, rather they were born at war, may the truth stand strong in history and may Martin Mc Guinness be remembered as the true Irish man he was….

    2023
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    Mute Fank Pulman
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 1:20 PM

    @Kate Flaherty: Kate – did King Henry II of England, and his men, not arrive here first with the Normans in 1169!?

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    Mute Tom Leddy
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 1:23 PM

    @Kate Flaherty: Very well said Kate.

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    Mute Lucille Ball
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 1:23 PM

    @Kate Flaherty: Iovely comment there Kate… I agree 100%… RIP Mr McGuinness

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    Mute Rebecca De Stanleigh
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 1:23 PM

    @Fank Pulman: you are correct. However the oppression and turmoil didn’t really begin until the 16th century when the plantations were instigated. Irish and Anglos lived relatively peacefully side by side for the proceeding centuries.

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    Mute Kate Flaherty
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 1:24 PM

    @Fank Pulman: We were invaded by the Norman’s, the English snuck up on us, the Catholic Church then dominated, and now the globalists are at the doorstep….

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    Mute Rebecca De Stanleigh
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 1:25 PM

    *preceding

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    Mute Alan Brogan
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 1:25 PM

    @Kate Flaherty: John Hume was born in the same circumstances, the SDLP as like IRA/SF, but they turned their back on murder and terrorism and fought peacefully for civil rights. The IRA/SF were or interested in civil rights, only mayhem and murder. The people of NI consistently voted SDLP throughout the troubles.

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    Mute Kate Flaherty
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 1:26 PM

    @Dilly Dong: it’s something you can only aspire to be Dilly Dong…..

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    Mute Fank Pulman
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 1:33 PM

    @Rebecca De Stanleigh: Just one example – the Bruce Campaign (in the 14th century) didn’t happen then? I’m happy to provide you with details of numerous other campaigns, sieges and armed conflicts.

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    Mute Fank Pulman
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 1:37 PM

    @Kate Flaherty: You typed that the English ‘crept in on us in the 1700s’ – where/when was this, because I’d be intrigued to know?!

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    Mute John003
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 1:42 PM

    @Fank Pulman: Think she means the Ulster Plantation starting in 1600 easily confused with Norman invasion in 1169….

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    Mute Brian Ward
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 1:46 PM

    @Alan Brogan: Didthe SDLP defend Catholic neighbourhoods from rampaging Loyalists and B Specials? Many more people would have been burnt out and killed if the IRA hadn’t fought back. The Loyalist hoardes only laughed at the finger wagging of the SDLP.

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    Mute Fank Pulman
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 1:47 PM

    @John003: To confuse the Norman Invasion and the Plantation of Ulster would be very difficult! It seems Kate makes up her own version of our history, as she goes along. Rather tedious.

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    Mute Alan Brogan
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 1:52 PM

    @Brian Ward: so why did the SDLP continuously trounce sf Ira at the polls? And why did sf Ira kill and murder Catholics that they were ‘protecting’?

    53
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    Mute Darren Tully
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 1:52 PM

    @Kate Flaherty: So what you’re saying to Billy is only people who share your views and meet your standards can be Irish even if they were born here and can trace their family back generations. Great to see that the narrow minded bigotry which saw Douglas Hyde expelled from the GAA as no true Irish man for attending a soccer match is alive and well within Irish nationalism.

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    Mute John003
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 1:55 PM

    The B Specials and Loyalists gangs burning Catholic streets like Bombay street in 1969 were gone by 1974 as was the Unionist parliament and the B Specials….Voting and housing allocation had being reformed…Dont think the IRA fought on for another 24 years for more civil rights for Catholics….They were fighting for a United Ireland…

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    Mute Fank Pulman
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 2:01 PM

    @Kate Flaherty: Kate is unable to provide answers – please, in future, consider and research your posts before making your factually erroneous statements. As has been pointed out to you – or, maybe, read a few history books.

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    Mute Fank Pulman
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 2:04 PM

    @Rebecca De Stanleigh: Still also awaiting a reply to my question to you!

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    Mute Rebecca De Stanleigh
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 2:20 PM

    @Fank Pulman: Frank well aware of the Anglo Norman invasion. I studied it while completing my History degree- thanks for the offer though. Oppression and systematic subjugation didn’t really start to occur until the the Tudor campaign in the the 16th century.

    Anglo Normans came over, conquered, had a few scuffles with local Gaelic and Danes but pretty quickly assimilated. Some even became very Gaelic themselves- inter marrying etc. Many Royal charters were passed that made the cities we know today during these centuries. Religious and cultural oppression was minimal.

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    Mute Just Me
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 2:21 PM

    @Dilly Dong: I’ll give you an answer look in your mirror and you wont find one.

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    Mute Scundered
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 2:24 PM

    @Kate Flaherty: What a one-sided point of view, which completely ignores the horror that he also brought to so many innocent people. If we are to have some hope for the future it can only happen when people accept reality and stop these overly romantic versions of what we all know to be the truth.

    Balance is important.

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    Mute John
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 2:28 PM

    @Kate Flaherty: almost in tears reading your comment, beautifully said.

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    Mute Brian MacCarthaigh
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 2:37 PM

    @Kate Flaherty: “Palestine is relatively mild when you compare it to the troubles of the 60′s 70′s and 80′s” Really?? What about the Gaza genocide of 2014 when Isreal bombed the place back to the stone age killing 500 children alone. The bombed hospitals, schools, places of worship, ambulances, medical personnel, roads, businesses, homes, factories, power plants, water purification plants, etc etc. How can you even compare the two situations?

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    Mute Brian Ward
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 2:43 PM

    @Alan Brogan: SF/IRA? Not even the DUP use that anymore! Only people of the Loyalist persuasion use that expression.

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    Mute Scundered
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 2:44 PM

    @Brian Ward: they didn’t fight back though, anytime they tried to they got wiped out so they resorted to cowardly planting car bombs in towns and villages which destroyed the lives of civilians mostly…

    that’s the reality of these “heroes”

    12
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    Mute Fank Pulman
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 2:54 PM

    @Rebecca De Stanleigh: Minimal – well not really. I mentioned the Bruce Campaign and wiki will set out the virtually constant conflicts with the Crown – every few years. However the Tudor certainly changed things – was in Hever Castle again last week; not far from Gatwick.

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    Mute TomTraubert
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 2:58 PM

    @John: Turn the dramatic dial down a little there lad, ffs.

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    Mute Sledro
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:00 PM

    Well said Kate and Rebecca. This Frank guy spends his sad life trolling the comment section to get a reaction/kick. Talks utter scutter.

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    Mute Fank Pulman
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:06 PM

    @Sledro: Historic facts m8. Feel free to dispute them, if you are able. But I won’t be holding my breath – you probably think Manual Labour is the president of Spain!

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    Mute Jamie Brogan
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:25 PM

    @Fank Pulman: If you are classifying French speaking Cambro-Normans as English/British, then you have an extremely flawed understanding of history. Sure those same people INVADED England only 100 years prior to invading Ireland. Further, they never conquered the country and in fact had become extremely integrated by the 14th century or earlier, often intermarrying and siding with the local Irish against the English Crown. I have a huge problem with this notion that the ENGLISH have been DOMINATING Ireland for 700 years. It’s a lie. It’s with the Tudor Reconquest that this really began, and after the Nine Years War when it accelerated a great deal since the Gaelic aristocracy fled the island.

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    Mute Teddy
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:31 PM

    @fank Pulman,ha Ha,took you a while to google that answer,FANKER

    35
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    Mute Sledro
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:39 PM

    Look at you getting all excited when someone mentions your name. Like a dog with two mickeys… oh and I didn’t read your “Historic Facts” that you googled. Stopped reading your comments a while back, no need, same $hite, different formula.

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    Mute Tomasz Irlandczik Krótki
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:43 PM

    @Dilly Dong: Be honest and fair-minded. Support equality and parity of esteem. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Do not blind yourself to injustice. It’s the same formula for any man, woman or child of any nation. If justice is denied you, have the courage to stand up to the system. As a teenager, Martin McGuinness stood up and was counted. Those who affect to despise him would love him if the shoe were on the other foot. He was willing to forgive and to move on. His ‘Christian’ detractors stood idly by when injustice reigned supreme.

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    Mute Fank Pulman
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:43 PM

    @Jamie Brogan: I do not classify the Normans as such – and have been to Hastings dozens of times where they landed in 1066. Posters here have different views on the date of the ‘English invasion’ – from 1169, 1700s (Kate) and even 1801. Henry II was the first English king to invade with his recently conquered men, in 1169 – and they never left. Just like the Normans. Although they (Normans) concentrated more on England and published the Doomsday Book in 1086 (now in Kew) only 20 years after they arrived.

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    Mute Donnchadh Cassin
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:46 PM

    @Fank Pulman: you have google do sone research yourself and stop trolling! We are not here to educate you and you clearly know so stop the stupid nonsense.

    31
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    Mute Fank Pulman
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:48 PM

    @Sledro: you have shown yourself as an uneducated name calling buffon. ignore activated…bye

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    Mute Fank Pulman
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:54 PM

    @Donnchadh Cassin: No dc – no Google. Just a history degree. Well done, you are also muted – simply because you are incapable of even entering the debate. Bye.

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    Mute An_Beal_Bocht
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 4:10 PM

    @Fank Pulman: Henry II was Norman and spoke Norman French. He was born in France and died in France. He was leader of vast French kingdoms but inherited the throne of England through his conquering father. Gaelic Ireland survived pretty much in tact for the following 500 years or so. The Norman Fitz-geralds -gibbons, Burkes etc are as Irish as the Irish themselves and contributed genetic diversity, education and customs etc. The English establishment from the Tudors on contributed misery, division, racism, religious hate, propaganda and ethnic cleansing

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    Mute Thomas O Connor
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 4:10 PM

    @Dilly Dong: if you have to ask that question my friend then your lost.. My grandfather once said, “A True Irish man will always help those who are less fortunate than himself…

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    Mute Linda Deere
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 4:21 PM

    @Kate Flaherty:

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    Mute Fank Pulman
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 4:28 PM

    @An_Beal_Bocht: Would largely accept that – and only observe that, for a short lived dynasty (100 years or so), the Tudors had a major influence. Not least in religious matters; Henry VIII may well have been the real instigator of the hatred that has survived to this very day.

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    Mute Andy Wallace
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 5:09 PM

    When Dank isn’t pulling himself he is trolling as you can see his tone became increasingly frustrated when Kate didn’t reply. Unfortunately Rebecca took the bate. Just ignoring is best.

    19
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    Mute Roisin Connolly
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 5:22 PM

    @Kate Flaherty: Wow! Very powerful and very true Kate. Fair play to you.

    22
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    Mute Fank Pulman
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 5:25 PM

    @Andy Wallace: No Andy – debate/dialogue is best for those of us who are capable! Like Rebecca, Beal etc. Those who can’t – like you, it would seem – just type meaningless or inaccurate rubbish and insult.

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    Mute Christopher Gardiner
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 6:07 PM

    @Dilly Dong: Well common sense would tell you a true Irish Man is someone who is proud to stand up as Irish when it is the most unpopular and dangerous thing to do. The majority of us will never be asked to do it or have the courage to do it.

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    Mute Gerry Fitz
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 6:41 PM

    @Kate Flaherty: Very well said Kate

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    Mute Derek Billings
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 8:03 PM

    Spot on kate

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    Mute Derek Billings
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 8:04 PM

    If you need to ask then you’ll never understand.

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    Mute Derek Billings
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 8:10 PM

    No thanks. We know all that. What is your point pray? Do we not still have defendants of the planted people here. Lord this lady that whose people acquired their lands. In other words it was taken and given to them. I think we are very very quiet people all considered.

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    Mute Derek Billings
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 8:13 PM

    We’ve a lot of them here.

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    Mute Derek Billings
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 8:25 PM

    All the nay sayers on here are great men. Afraid of their shadows. He took on the powers of British and he and others stood up for their people who had no one. No one. The south didn’t give a damn. So if you have a better answer or suggestion as to what they could have done, then tell us all. Armchair experts. Sitting doing nothing. But criticising those who did. Stupid people. We know you for what you are. We’ve always had people like you down through the centuries. Useless. But trying to bring down those who are better than you because you’re jealous. R.I.P. Martin. So sad to see you go.

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    Mute Derek Billings
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 8:32 PM

    That you Frank? You’ll never know anyway. Yeah gwan up to Arlene. You two should get on

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    Mute Range Rover
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 9:01 PM

    @Kate Flaherty: long before that.

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    Mute Gerard Henry
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 9:36 PM

    @Kate Flaherty: wel said Kate

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    Mute Gerard Henry
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 9:38 PM

    @Dilly Dong: good question dilly I have no idea I see myself as a good Irish man but others mightn’t

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    Mute Bilbo Baggins
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 9:44 PM

    How do I vote for @Sledro’s last comment for comment of the week??? Classic

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    Mute Boganity
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 9:44 PM

    @Dilly Dong: do the opposite of what you do

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    Mute Boganity
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 9:46 PM

    @Alan Brogan: the SDLP where only ever passengers in the peace process, it Martin and his ilk that drove it

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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 10:03 PM

    @Alan Brogan: Only one difference, there was no parliament in Northern Ireland during the troubles it came under marshal law from Westminster.

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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 10:13 PM

    @An_Beal_Bocht: The Normans were the last in a long line of invading armies to land on Englands shores. Before them came Romans, Saxons and Vikings and yet you will never hear the English complaining about their past. Religious institutions and monasticism followed the Normans into Britain and Ireland and with it came education and many of the laws we have today..

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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 10:19 PM

    @Kate Flaherty: The English were in Ireland long before the 1700′s and there have been famines going back many hundreds of years, especially the Black Death in 1348 which wiped out a reputed half of the Irish population. People were emigrating from Ireland to settle in the new colonies of America and Canada from the 1700′s simply because there wasn’t any work in Ireland.

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    Mute Grey Beard
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 11:06 PM

    @Kate Flaherty: I agree with everything you said except Palestine. In any context what is happening there is far from mild.

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    Mute Were Jammin
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 11:32 PM

    On a day when Britain is reeling from a terrorist attack on innocent civilians and the police, the gross irony and hypocrisy of eulogising a man who defended similar actions just over 2 decades ago is outstanding.

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    Mute Groovus Maximus
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    Mar 24th 2017, 12:11 AM

    @Kate Flaherty: Christ, what utter bullshit.

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    Mute Fearghal Mac Pháidín
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    Mar 24th 2017, 2:01 AM

    @Kate Flaherty: “Palestine is relatively mild when you compare it to the troubles of the 60′s, 70′s and 80′s”

    WOW, just wow…This comment sums up the absolute ignorance of the internet. You ignorant, ignorant woman.
    As bad as the troubles were they were NOWHERE NEAR the scale of the Israel Pasestine conflict, not even CLOSE! In the 2014 conflict ALONE 2,104 people lost their lives within a matter of WEEKS!!! are you insane! compare this to about 3,600 over 40 YEARS with the Troubles.

    What’s even more depressing about your comment is the amount of likes it has gotten, and reading through the replies I think only one other person has called you up about your IGNORANCE. It actually sickens me. The internet is bad for my health. You have ruined my day.

    Ádh mór ort

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    Mute Derek Moean
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 1:01 PM

    RIP…Martin……

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    Mute Were Jammin
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 11:33 PM

    Ar dheis an diabhal go raibh a anam.

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    Mute Simeon
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 1:16 PM

    Let his legacy be that we will never let go of the peace he worked so hard to bring about and that we will work toward the united Ireland he wanted.

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    Mute The Risen
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 2:16 PM

    And so one of the most remarkable journeys of any Irish man comes to its end and his final resting place.

    May we see his like again.

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    Mute CeannairBlue
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 2:30 PM

    @The Risen: I hope we will but I fear it may be some time. Rest in peace.

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    Mute Scundered
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 2:50 PM

    @The Risen: Now he is in heaven with all the people he put there, that’ll be one awkward welcome party for sure.

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    Mute CeannairBlue
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 2:55 PM

    @Scundered: Moron.

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    Mute An_Beal_Bocht
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 4:26 PM

    @Scundered: Carpe diem, there is no fairy land called heaven or hell, it’s time you grew up. Mr McGuinness made his impact when he had the chance

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    Mute Alan Brogan
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 6:42 PM

    @An_Beal_Bocht: McGuinnes was a staunch catholic and beleived in heaven and hell. he is rotting in hell now.

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    Mute Derek Billings
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 8:18 PM

    Alan Brogan grow up.

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    Mute Patrick Kearns
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:07 PM

    This attitude that SF or the IRA are just as bad now as hey ever were is costing this country and the peace process a lot of progress. If Loyalists and Unionists are will to let bygones be bygones, why can’t many south of the border do the same? Peace in the North needs to extend below the border. Martin McGuinness was a product of his environment, when all legal avenues were exhausted and innocent civilians were being shot in the street by a regime that even apartheid South Africa was jealous of, it is no small wonder many took up the gun. Light needs to be shed on the truth of what happened during the troubles so that the masses this side of the border can be educated to reality rather than buying FF/FG’s politically motivated policy of division, at what cost they don’t care so long as they are safe in their seats. The simplest analogy for what went on is to imagine the Civil Rights movement in the U.S. failed and that they were then governed by the KKK and that is not any exaggeration in the slightest. In the fullness of time, Martin McGuinness’s contribution will be understood as will that of many on both sides of the divide such as David Irvine who was another great loss to peace in the North.

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    Mute Scundered
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:16 PM

    @Patrick Kearns: If you thought shooting civilians was very wrong, why would you also take up a gun and start killing civilians too, it doesn’t add up. The fight would have had more merit if they had stuck to military targets but that wasn’t the case.

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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:22 PM

    @Scundered: You can say that all you want but it won’t change anything and it’ll still be in the past. If you prefer peace over the alternative, it’s time to let it go, just like Martin McGuinness did. That fight is now over, it’s time to reconcile.

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    Mute Paddy Hackett
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:56 PM

    @Patrick Kearns: Patrick the problem is that the past is not over.

    Sectarianism is still present. The GFA has institutionalised sectarianism. The plight of Catholic and Protestant workers is still present. The problems surrounding BREXIT are evidence that the past is still sticking its nose into the present.

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    Mar 23rd 2017, 4:29 PM

    @Paddy Hackett: Of course Sectarianism is still present and it was already institutionalized long before the GFA but that at least is a step in the right direction and things are getting better no matter how the party politics of all involved. Do you think your stance on this a help or a hindrance? Do you think people who share your opinion are a help to peace in the North?

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    Mute Scundered
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 5:45 PM

    @Patrick Kearns: I have let it go because I never took anything on board in the first place, I have been a peaceful person ALL of my life and see all sides. What is sickening is to read the accounts of people who can only see one side of the coin, writing biased versions of the truth.

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    Mute Patrick Kearns
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 6:01 PM

    @Scundered: That’s funny because you sound very bitter for somebody who doesn’t have a chip on their shoulder…

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    Mute All Hail Bukowski
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 9:12 PM

    @Scundered: wow that fence must be really embedded up your backside. amazing how you have that omniscient pure objective viewpoint.

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    Mute Scundered
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 10:17 PM

    @Patrick Kearns: you have a problem accepting reality, that’s all. I have always stated that killing is wrong no matter who is carrying it out.

    Do you?

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    Mar 25th 2017, 6:46 PM

    @Scundered: Here’s the reality, many who picked up the gun in order to protect their own gave it up when they realised there was a better alternative. They moved on from the violence in their past and chose a path of peace that would have to be walked with those who were once their bitterest enemies. They have left their hatred behind because it serves no use.

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    Mute Honeybadger197
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 1:45 PM

    Glad his organisation stopped killing and embraced peace. I hope it will endure. The saddest irony of it all is that the IRA killed more Catholics in Northern Ireland than the British Army did. Something to bear in mind when talking about protecting civil rights, defending their communities etc. Some will say whatabout the loyalists? They were murderous animals but didnt claim to be protecting catholics. As it is, the IRA still managed to kill a little over 50% as many as did the combined loyalist terrorist groups. The IRA killed 29 loyalist terrorists v roughly 380 Catholics. This man presided over it all. Im glad he chose a peaceful path eventually but too many lives were lost while he and his loyalist counterparts played god with innocent people.

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    Mute The Risen
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 1:49 PM

    @Honeybadger197: Still cherrypicking the stats that suit you? Tisk tisk.

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    Mute Honeybadger197
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 1:57 PM

    @The Risen: The facts that relate to the IRA and the Catholic communities that they were “defending”?

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    Mar 23rd 2017, 2:12 PM

    @Honeybadger197: They were defending the Catholic community against the loyalists, RUC and British army.

    Would you like to post the combined numbers of catholics killed by those groups, instead of your cherrypicked stats?

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    Mute Scundered
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 2:26 PM

    @The Risen: Do you think you’re playing a game of top trumps with the poster or what? Why do you feel the numbers are so important, every death was one too many in my opinion and completely uncalled for.

    Either you think killing people is wrong or not, regardless of who is carrying it not, now which is it?

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    Mute Honeybadger197
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 2:30 PM

    @The Risen: Would you insist on IRA numbers if we were discussing loyalist terrorism and their protestant victims? Of course you wouldn’t. I havent cherrypicked anything – I’ve merely outlined the tragic irony of what “defending the catholic community” involved for innocent catholic civilians. You dont like this and you’re deflecting. That the loyalist terrorists killed more Catholics isnt surprising unfortunately – but pointing at loyalist terrorists saying “but they killed more catholics than the IRA did” doesnt absolve the IRA, and reflects poorly on your argument.

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    Mar 23rd 2017, 2:59 PM

    @Honeybadger197: I would always insist on people not tainting their posts with blatant agendas.

    Here’s a useful set of stats for folks….

    http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/troubles/troubles_stats.html

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    Mute TomTraubert
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:00 PM

    @The Risen: so, collateral damage is ok then?

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    Mute Honeybadger197
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:33 PM

    @The Risen: My ” blatant agenda” was to show two things. 1. The IRA killed more catholic civilians than the british army and just over half the numbers of loyalist terrorists. 2. That given the numbers of Catholics killed by the british army and loyalists terrorists, there is no demonstrable proof that they protected any catholics (outside of the very beginning of the troubles in Derry/ Belfast). Thank you for posting the stats in detail, i hoped you might. In essence, youre absolving the IRA ( protectors of catholics according to you) by pointing to the statistical killings of their sworn enemies. Its a very poor defence, abject whataboutery, and smacks of your own “agenda”. Again, im only pointing out the counterintuitive nature of the facts about the IRA. You’re muddying the waters because you know im right.

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    Mute 1island1Ireland
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 6:37 PM

    @Honeybadger197: if you’re talking about facts they killed 46 loyalists. However their war was against the British state and their army. So as it’s already been mentioned don’t cherry pick. Especially as your facts are the alternative truths we hear so much about.

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    Mute Honeybadger197
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 7:11 PM

    @1island1Ireland: Thats the thing though, isnt it? If they were at war with the “British State and their army”, why did they kill so many more catholic civilians than british soldiers? Maybe you could attempt an answer – so far all I’ve gotten is: “what about the loyalists” etc.

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    Mute Brian Rodgers
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 4:51 PM

    All very brave keyboard warriors on social media these past few days. A giant in Irish politics dies and all you can do is start throwing insults at each other. I thought we were a better people than that. RIP.

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    Mute Maureen Satelle
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:16 PM

    Why is rte not showing Martin Mc Guinness funeral when they said they would

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    Mute John003
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:24 PM

    @Maureen Satelle: On main news they announced it would-be on the RTE news now channel….

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    Mute Michael Lynch
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:29 PM

    @Maureen Satelle: Looking for extra euros on licence fee to justify showing it.

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    Mute scoop delivery
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 5:51 PM

    @Maureen Satelle: political reasons Maureen. Nothing more nothing less.

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    Mute Paddy Hackett
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:14 PM

    The enormous glorification of Martin McGuinness by establishment politicians and the MSM is a manifestation of the absence of moral values in capitalist society today.

    Here was a figure who actively supported and promoted terrorism that involved bombing, killing and torture. For opportunist reasons he shifted away from these deeds he is now being eulogised from many quarters. These very clerical, political and MSM elements employed vitriolic language in condemnation of the violence that he and his comrades actively supported. Now because he turned away from this terrorism he is now being hailed as a hero. Yet Irish civilians guilty of murder are subjected to life in prison even if they admit guilt and genuinely turn from such violence. There is no glorification for them.

    There is no moral justification for glorifying Martin McGuinness and others while punishing others.

    It also indicates the moral nihilism of much of the public that pay such respect for such a reactionary figure.

    Politically speaking Martin McGuinness never represented the class interests of workers. His party, Sinn Féin, represents the class interests of capitalism.

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    Mute Scundered
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:17 PM

    @Paddy Hackett: It’s like thanking the school bully for deciding to stop bullying you.

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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:28 PM

    @Scundered: I see what you mean. There is almost a fear of subjecting the late Martin McGuinness to severe criticism together with Gerry Adams. This is so too because there is still a fear of the shadow of terrorism. The terrorism that McCartney was the victim of despite the GFA.

    You can criticise Enda Kenny all you like but not the divine Martin McGuinnness and Gerry Adams

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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:31 PM

    @Paddy Hackett: One has to wonder where the vitriol lies, with those who have sat down and shared power with those who were once bitter enemies or with those who never even lived it. Time to grow and move on, it’s in the past.

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    Mute Teddyzigzagbigbag
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 10:04 PM

    @Paddy Hackett: jaysus what must you think of Mandela and the ANC? But hey each to their own. You’re entitled to your opinion

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    Mute Ross Campbell
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:10 PM

    Regardless of your opinion of him, and mine is a mixed one, we will never see the like of him again.

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    Mute Raymond Power
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 1:21 PM

    Agreed Kate. ..but you need to go back centuries before the 1700…’s they were semi mild from there on.

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    Mute Jlocoroco
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 2:18 PM

    *Londonderry

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    Mute The Risen
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 2:21 PM

    ^

    The only word in the english language with 6 silent letters at the start of it.

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    Mute Scundered
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 2:26 PM

    @The Risen: Yay, bigotry, that’s just what this country needs.

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    Mute Just Me
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 2:27 PM

    @Jlocoroco: Idiot.

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    Mute Niall Campbell
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:50 PM

    @Scundered: it’s only bigotry when it’s Republicans doing it, isn’t Scundered? There’s absolutely no one that calling it Londonderry could be biggoted, sure only the dirty Shinners can do that.

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    Mar 23rd 2017, 5:48 PM

    @Niall Campbell: I couldn’t care less what it is called, the point which went over your head was that people are making a big deal about the name, petty stupid bickering, over nothing. The sort of pettiness that keeps mindsets stuck in the past.

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    Mar 23rd 2017, 8:51 PM

    @Scundered: if you don’t care and think people shouldn’t bicker about it, then why complain about the lad making a joke and not the original poster?

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    Mar 23rd 2017, 10:18 PM

    @Niall Campbell: good point, and it applies equally to them.

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    Mute Club Ireland
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 8:52 PM

    R I P Martin God Save Ireland

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    Mute Paddy Hackett
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:21 PM

    This is a continuation of my previous comment on the late Martin McGuinness

    Indeed, in a sense, McGuinness is being lauded because the IRA surrendered to the British state in it’s so called struggle for a 32 county Irish Republic. Sinn Féin and it’s friends promote surrender and defeat as victory. The political establishment together with its MSM are effectively glorifying Martin McGuinness because he symbolises this surrender to the forces they represent.

    The British state through its security network had effectively colonised Sinn Féin/IRA. Prima facie evidence exists to suggest that the SinnFéin/IRA movement would appear to have become riddled with informers and agents from top to bottom. It is not any wonder that it should under these conditions have ignobly capitulated.

    In many ways what were then called the Officials (now the Workers Party) were savagely condemned by the Provos. Yet Sinn Féin/IRA, in many ways, morphed into what it had bitterly opposed.

    The states north and south of the border, it’s political parties, the Church and the MSM have no morality except the nihilistic one of capitalism. These actors form a unity. Ultimately their moral values are based on events supportive of capitalism.

    These actors are just as capable of supporting and eulogising the Daesh type terrorist groups in the Middle East. Indeed they have been supported by the nihilistic CIA.

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    Mute Patrick Kearns
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:37 PM

    @Paddy Hackett: Jazsus man, you’re stretching things a bit there, aren’t you? It can equally be said said that the British State surrendered after the City of London and Canary Wharf became targets. One has to wonder at someone who’ll dream up all sorts of conspiracies to support their own paranoid narrative. Let it go, it’s over now.

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    Mute Paddy Hackett
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:50 PM

    @Patrick Kearns: The British state did not loose. It was not forced to surrender the six county part of its state nor anything else. For a few crumbs the IRA surrendered. It even handed over much of its killing weapons. A few crumbs is nothing to British capitalism.

    Much of the adoring public is self deluded in it’s mourning for the late Martin McGuinness. Clearly the Provos will opportunistically make hay out of his demise. It did this over Bobby Sands too.

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    Mar 23rd 2017, 4:18 PM

    @Paddy Hackett: Or maybe they wanted peace, maybe they wanted to be able to sleep soundly in the knowledge that their children would now grow up with a roof of their own over their heads and wouldn’t have to go abroad to secure a bright future? P.s. After the British Government left the negotiating table, they came back after the The City of London was targeted. Just because you believe something to be does not make it so. It’s time you moved on, your divisive stance doesn’t help anyone and it serves no good.

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    Mar 23rd 2017, 4:36 PM

    @Patrick Kearns: Patrick I am not very sure as to what your saying. But if peace etc. is what was wanted then there was the Sunningdale Agreement. The latter was fiercely challenged by the Provos in more ways than one. Yet it was not much different to the GFA. Furthermore it might have evolved into something even apparently better. Yet McGuinness and Adams bitterly opposed it.

    The mass public mourning for the late McGuinness is a form of mass self delusion partly created by many public figures and the MSM.

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    Mute Patrick Kearns
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 6:03 PM

    @Paddy Hackett: What I’m saying is that sour grapes help no one and saying things should have or could have been better is counter productive as well as pointless.

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    Mute Scundered
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 10:20 PM

    @Patrick Kearns: do you think the families of the Sunday bloody enquiry were just folk having sour grapes?

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    Mute Alan Flood
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:19 PM

    A remarkable terrorist for want of a better word

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    Mute Jamie McCormack
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 9:50 PM

    @Alan Flood: Maybe he stood up to terrorism?

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    Mute Jamie McCormack
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 11:22 PM

    You know, invading their ancient lands, slaughtering them, sending them abroad, later partitioning them into a horrible, nasty sectarian statelet where they had no vote, no jobs, all they had was the Orange Order and the RUC ramming loyalism down their throats. Then there was the small matter of the Pogroms and collusion in the rampant murder of anyone smelling of a Fenian, or even merely being a Catholic. I’d like to think the days of British State terrorism are gone from these shores after 850 odd years, and it was boys and girls like Martin who pushed the envelope.

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    Mute Frank Griffin
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 3:06 PM

    it is appointed unto man once to die and after death the judgment he fought and died for what he believed was right that which was stolen must be restored the written word

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    Mute Paddy Hackett
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 5:02 PM

    The public mourning by many establishment figures over the passing away of Martin McGuinness is grounded in the fact that the British, Irish and US states played a key role in the realisation of the GFA. The GFA was the product of the bourgeois establishment. It was it’s victorious achievement. McGuinness etc were effectively it’s subalterns. Consequently they are using the McGuinness funeral as a rallying point in order to help consolidate the GFA especially in circumstances in which the latter is under tension.

    This is the state’s way of consolidating its support among the deluded masses. It also provides an opportunity for some public figures to narcissistically advertise themselves. Sinn Féin will milk the occasion to the full.

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    Mute Adrian
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 5:13 PM

    All this division shit started when Henry viii wanted to stick his dick into as many women as he could in the early 16th century and broke away from Rome proclaimed himself head of church and the Irish wouldn’t following suit.
    As for the SDLP wouldn’t have got a look in if the other Catholic party (SF) and PIRA weren’t a major pain to the UK by armed conflict and to say the majority of Catholics up north were voting SDLP is pure shit.
    Margaret Thatcher murdering bitch rip Martin tell Bobby i said hi

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    Mute Adrian
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 5:33 PM

    @Adrian: its also a fact that Martin and Gerry were in negotiations with the British government and mi5 in the early 80s but Thatcher wouldn’t budge on any ground.

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    Mute Gerard Henry
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 9:39 PM

    He ment well

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    Mute Podge Cannon
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    Mar 23rd 2017, 7:58 PM

    @Kate Flaherty: Get over pal. Haha

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