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IRELAND’S HEALTH AUTHORITY has published their recommendation on how people can quit cigarettes – and it doesn’t recommend vaping.
The Hiqa report ‘Health technology assessment of smoking cessation interventions‘, recommends that the Health Minister Simon Harris awaits “the results of ongoing trials before deciding whether to recommend e-cigarettes”.
According to the report:
Safety data on e-cigarettes are limited to two small short-term clinical trials. Mild, temporary adverse drug reactions were found, such as throat and respiratory irritation and dry cough.
Toxicological studies have demonstrated that while toxic chemicals may be present in e-cigarette vapour, they are at a lower concentration than in cigarette smoke.
E-cigarettes have only been in use for a short time, and so data on long-term toxicity are not yet available. While the clinical effect of long-term e-cigarette use is unknown, the risk to bystanders from ‘passive vaping’ appears to be very low.
The safety of e-cigarettes is an evolving area of research; while believed to be safer than smoking, evidence on long-term safety has yet to be established.
Dr Máirín Ryan of Hiqa (Health Information and Quality Authority) said that the decision to officially endorse e-cigarettes should consider its long-term effects.
Data is also needed into concerns about the “social normalisation” of e-cigarettes leading to increased uptake among people who have never smoked, or later migration to tobacco cigarettes, she said.
Already, it’s estimated that almost one in three people in Ireland use e-cigarettes in their attempt to quit smoking.
So here’s the ways Hiqa is recommending people use to quit smoking:
1. Nicotine replacement therapy (NRT). This includes nicotine gum, patches, inhalers, intranasal and oral sprays, and tablets
2. Varenicline. A prescription-only medicine that reduces smoking withdrawal symptoms and can be used alone or with NRTs. Using varenicline with NRT is more than three and half times as effective as using no active medication
3. Behavioural interventions. Counselling and group behaviour therapy are also effective in helping smokers to quit compared to quitting with minimal help.
Over 24% of men and 21% of women in Ireland smoke, and one in five deaths each year is due to tobacco smoke.
Previously, Hiqa acknowledged in a report the success e-cigarettes have in helping people quit smoking, but said further studies were needed to ensure they weren’t doing damage to people in the long-run.
A fortnight ago, the government has brought forward legislation that will ensure all cigarette packaging will look the same from 30 September 2017.
From then, all packs will look less attractive to consumers, health warnings will be more prominent and packaging won’t mislead consumers about the harmful effects of tobacco.
The total annual expenditure on smoking cessation activity in Ireland is estimated to be over €40 million.
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This story is truly disgusting. Further evidence of the long-reaching damage that the powerthe Catholic Church once held over our country. It’s shocking that it was first found over thirty years, simply dismissed as “maybe it was a famine grave or something” and covered over again. The stuff of nightmares. Poor children, chronically mistreated,malnourished and abandoned by those who were entrusted to protect them. Failed by the Church, the state and their own families in the name of shame. Nauseating.
Always amazes me how the religious were /are so worried and active about the rights of the unborn but so casual about the rights of the living…
Because of the money created under admiralty law on the berth/birth of the child through the waters of the mother.
As long as its born alive, they do not care after that. Its just business.
Always amazed how liberals so worried about equality of all why denying it to others! No side has a monopoly on hypocrisy I guess
The Journal.ie clearly has its own agenda. Why else would such opinionated hatred be given free reign on a “news” website.
Possibly because it’s true Jon.
Red arrow me all you like but what about the parents and families who put these young girls in these “homes’ never wanting to see or hear from them or their “illigitatime children” again – THATS SHAME. What about all those who knew what was going on in these “houses” and did nothing – ah sure its got nothing to do with us, as long as it doesn’t affect my goings on – THATS SHAME. Ya the carers were wrong but nobody elses was going to look after the mother and baby were they – what option did the mother have ??? And now everyones crying out and playing the blame game – I suggest people start looking inwardly . The hypocrisy sickens me!!!
suffer little children huh this is evil no one has a right who lives or dies those children had done nothing wrong the people who have done this evil atrocity have to live with that and i hope they suffer
The religious in Ireland have been steering the ship far too long. Now that their power is finally fading, due to a less fearful and less easily-bullied population, they are squealing like trapped rats. And by God they deserve it, the damned hypocrites. Their reign can’t end soon enough.
Funny then how all non-sociopathic people are of the same view. It’s disgusting how those nuns abused their power and so so sad for the victims.
It’s always the vunerable that suffer.
I think the manner in which these children’s bodies were disposed of is highly indicative of the way they were viewed by the nuns who “cared” for them. You don’t dispose of anything in a septic tank unless you have absolutely no regard for it. To think that religious people could dispose of countless children’s remains without even according them a “christian burial” speaks volumes about their overall attitudes towards “illegitimate” children.
They were referred to as the ” disposable kids.”
Still the same now with some social workers calling children in state “care” as disposable kids.
Jane, well said, other cases allegedly they were wrapped in cloths and left to rot in corner of a field. Not even interred and protected from animals, this was in the original article.
I hadn’t heard that detail, Steve. Sickening :(
What I find most upsetting about this article, and stories like it, is that so many Irish people would be happy to see these “homes” opened again if it meant that their precious tax money didn’t have to pay for todays “illegitimate” and ” disposable” kids. There’s so much anger out there still towards lone parents and their children. Ireland still has very little love children, They are seen as a burden and a drain on tax payers money.
Yes, mothers, especially unhusbanded ones are a threat to any patriarchal society. Got to keep them women husbanded and children under control.
Men were used for this task and are now waking up.
Auto genocide uses divide and conquer tactics to get people to despise the women creators and their children.
Much like the aborted Babies are dealt with in the Medi-Waste incinerators disgorged from family planning clinics
abroad today .
Will people of the future condemn US for turning a blind eye, all a girl has to do in- for example Victoria Australia, is book in for a termination no questions asked up to 24 weeks.
Then after that, there is NO time limit- IF she CLAIMS she may harm herself and gets a letter from 2 doctors ( and no Doctor is going to risk litigation for that) , so she gets the letters and can abort right up to the birthday, seriously-
Believe this or not but it IS true.
Are we not the very same as the society of the past we are criticising today .
I am not writing this from a religious point of view, I like Flanagan think it is very cruel immoral and sad , the most defenceless people on earth are being torn from their mothers womb while so many childless couples have empty hearts and homes.
There should me more emphasis placed on adoption.
Ask ANY adoptee.
Interesting to see if that post is removed, it is as confronting as the article itself, but then this is on going today and the people who support it are alive and vocal in in its defence.
And the evidence is destroyed in ashes so there won’t be thousands if tiny sculls to be dug up.
If you actually tried to understand women at all John, you would realise that only an extreme minority could so callously and casually abort their baby in the manor you insinuate… The vast majority of abortions happen in the first 10 weeks whilst potential for life is still considered an embryo, that does not feel any pain whatsoever. This is scientific fact, that cannot be disputed by some ‘youth defense’ mumbo jumbo propaganda.
Don’t dare compare the agonising, extremely long and painful death of actual infants and children who have been left in a room to die and the subsequent dumping of their bodies in an incinerator, to the termination of an embryo. There is no comparison end of story. Please peddle your filthy inaccurate nonsense elsewhere.
Orla
This is not the end of story , as you put it .
I do feel empathy for girls who find themselves with an un wanted pregnancy, I am aware that most terminations take place in the first 10 or so weeks , but a lot don’t – ( will I won’t I) then another few weeks go by.
If the unborn babies don’t feel pain then why do the late term ones try to pull back from the instruments? (that is a scientific fact too)
Did you ever really think how it is done ?
It is cruel.
There have been many examples of babies taken and survived afterwards.
Would YOU perform such a task ?
Look there will always be abortions . What I am saying is there should be a proper system in place to discourage it where possible . A greater emphasis on the positive side of adoption is needed .
BTW you won’t get your point across by using terms like ‘peddling filth’.
The truth is hurtful and often unpleasant , but it is not filth .
@john. You must be the first person in history to argue that a pregnancy is viable at ten weeks outside the womb. Please enlighten us as to what magical wonder you are privy to? Can you also turn lead into gold?
“Pro-lifers” and the Catholic Church seem to be all about protecting the unborn baby but have an extreme disregard for those who are already born. The majority of anti-abortion groups are not in fact pro-life, they are pro-birth, with absolutely no regard to what happens to these children after they are born – whether their mother can actually provide for them, and lets face it, a lot of people out there don’t want to pay any more tax to help out the already impoverished children of this country, never mind any more “disposable” children
Read the post again
NOWHERE does it say viable at ten weeks.
It amazes me how many people scan over a posting , then go off on a printing rage with out reading the post properly.
Paddy Hannigan
The above , was for you , now please sober up , calm down and read those postings again .
Babies are not aborted.
You have no idea about abortion late or otherwise. In a late term abortion instruments are not used, a birth takes place.
Adoption is not an answer
How many people want to adopt a severely disabled child?
How many pregnancies cause harm to the mother? About 100%, if you take in to account things like stretch marks, but for others the cost of a pregnancy is damage tot he heart muscle (about 1 in 1000 pregnancies) or death.
Adoption is no answer when a pregnancy is killing the mother.
And the reason for it not being done early is often because a woman/girl is saving money to travel to another EU country for a perfectly safe medical procedure that is outlawed in Ireland
Didn’t they call them ‘The devils children’
Sashh
I know a great deal about abortion- I saw too many times- ,the contents of those Medi-Waste bags. (Abroad)
Simply because you may have had 1 or 2 does not mean you are an expert .
In Countries where abortion is permitted ad-Hoc, the vast majority of abortions are performed for the economic, or lifestyle reasons of the proposed parent,
Of course I would agree to this procedure if the is a risk to the Mother or a risk of producing a child with severe disabilities.
As for your claim that instruments are not used ?
Of course instruments are used.
Instruments are used on wanted babies too , never hear of a forceps ?
There are two ways to do it
1 the Foetus/ Fetus/Baby, is removed and allowed to die ( just like in the horror story above) or …
2 . The life ( using instruments ) is taken away first- in order to present a “Stillbirth”
I won’t describe how that is done.
But you and the Activists for pro- choice do paint a false and “Rosy” picture.
If you really do want to learn the TRUE facts, particularly of late term Abortions you can view it on a site called Truthtube.
But if you are in any way Squamish I would not recommend it.
Oh one more thing , Sashh.
Ask any Adoptee their view on adoption.
Then Google ‘How many babies were up for adoption ‘
In Say …. The U.K. Or Australia.
What nonsense, Oria Matthews. There are over 80 000 abortions in Australia every year – out of a population of only 22 million. These are children – real, scientifically verifiable human beings at an appropriate stage of their development. The vast majority are killed out of convenience, and that is the dark and ugly side of the female psyche. As for an embryo not feeling pain – that is simply inaccurate nonsense. The spinal cord, which is the central conduit of the nervous system is clearly visible and operative even before the woman realises she is pregnant. The nuns who allowed those poor children to die are just a part of the same dark and ugly side of the female nature. Who will speak for these powerless children? These aborted ones are at the mercy of a hateful mother, exercising arbitrary power over an infant who is utterly dependent, utterly helpless and completely disposable at the whim of the female. Who will speak for them? Clearly not you, madam. Clearly not you.
Nico, are you aware that under matriarchy, society did not have these abortion issues as all lived as one with support for all female creators. Women had natural fertility methods because they were all in harmony with the Mother planet.Women decided when and if they wanted to pro create. Oh and in case you did not know, male sperm was not needed either.
It is under patriarchal religions that hatred for the Eve ill mother and her eve ill children began.Raping and taking women as possessions as tokens of war and victory.
Do you know how many women suicided off this planet as patriarchy raged its way across Her?
It is the woman’s right to decide if she wants to use her body to sustain a baby for 40 weeks and then for 18 further years.
Why do you expect women to do all the sacrificing? Pay them 0 for their 40 weeks and 18 years of child raising. Label unhusbanded women as evil and a curse on society.
Asa society we are not further on in our patriarchal view of women and children.
Patriarchs see them as simply breeders for the next slave generation of workers.
We claim women are now equal to men, can be mothers and work thus doubling their woorkload, while male work load is reduced.
I am not talking about men, just so you know, I am talking about Patriarchy where both men and women suffer in different ways and both are pitted against each other- you have fallen for this as is clear in your opinion.
Why do patriarchs want to control women’s fertility? What is this wombman hatred and envy?
“Patriarchy is the insidious cultural force governing our planet today;
a hierarchal system supporting male domination and elite supremacy;
rooted in all religious & political belief systems that patronize a male GOD,
give MAN dominion over the Earth or appoint MAN head of household.
Patriarchy has dominated the world for many centuries now
keeping the numerous powers and gifts of the female under its control.
Since the Goddess as Divinity, Earth, Mother & Life-Giver has been deliberately
suppressed, supplanted and diminished by patriarchal religion & social systems,
along with the feminine powers of birthing and sustaining all life on earth,
it has sadly resulted in the sick and dysfunctional world we live in today!
Patriarchy creates illusions of male supremacy, power & importance.
Of course the idea of male supremacy is absurd, but when we uphold this
delusion we are actually supporting & sustaining a hierarchal system that
keeps many people oppressed, sick, dependent, poor or powerless.
We must also realize that by relinquishing our power to Patriarchy
we actually justify, condone or rationalize condescending or
abusive treatment toward females, children, animals, nature,
and any other life-form considered less valuable!
Patriarchy sits at the root of misogyny, codependency,
sexism, racism, homophobia, religious fundamentalism,
various addictions, wars, genocide, greed, pornography,
violence against women and children; obsession with body image;
eating disorders, domestic violence, child abuse, rape, incest,
crimes against humanity & other abuses we see in the world today.
Patriarchy is a belief system that stifles our true essence
by creating a false sense of reality. It perpetuates shame and
deterioration of the soul because it goes against the natural forces of life.
The truth is…
We are all spiritual beings, one with Nature, one in Spirit,
valuable and complete in the framework of our design,
and we must reclaim our divinity, unique mysteries, and deep
connection with the natural world in order to fully recover.
The laws and forces that govern life, yin and yang, are balanced,
flowing harmoniously and equally between polarities.
If we are not aligned with the natural forces & cycles of life
we stay unbalanced, therefore unhealthy.
Males as well as females are gravely affected by Patriarchy because
it defines unrealistic roles for us that are impossible to emulate
without creating conflict and confusion in our basic natures and
in our relationships with one another. Patriarchy teaches males
to BE GOD and females to SERVE GOD, which creates wars
within the self, and when there’s conflict and stress within
there is always discord, dis-ease & dysfunction without.”
Good comment, so you suggest we just murder them all. How about we start with all children under 5 years old of welfare moms. Just think how much tax money we could save. They are only kids after all and no one wants them, right. According to BO’s beliefs, children under 5 are not viable on their own anyway so lets just get rid of all of them. Sarc
It might be sarc- but do not think for a heartbeat that it cannot happen.
Useless eaters.lol
Anyone who knows their his story knows there is a religion/group who consider us cattle and their slaves.
http://www.whale.to/b/crow.html
Ideological: The conservative right claimed that the poor were dragging the country down morally and economically because they were costing society (living on welfare or getting some other public benefit) when in the “Land of Opportunity “anyone” who “really wanted” a job could get one. The right’s “think-tanks” and other institutions launched and paid for “studies” to “prove” their ideologies in their favor. Afterwards, they flooded the social tapestry with “evidence” to sway public opinion in the corner of the right.
Conservatives believe in helping those who need help, but welfare should not be a lifestyle. No one should expect others to take care of all their needs all their lives. Like a little boy said, get up and take care of it. People need to take care of themselves unless they are not able, like disabled, not lazy. Drug addicts, drunks, moderately slow, etc, can work and should. If they need help to get off drugs, help them, but they need to take responsibility and not start again. The difference between right and left—the right believes in people taking responsibility and the left think people are too stupid to be able to take care of themselves. They think the poor are also stupid and can not learn, so just keep them in the ghettos so we don’t have to see them. The right wants them working, taking care of their own and living next door We actually love our brothers and sisters and want what is good for them. Being dependent is harmful to the soul and the individuals self.
Tammy, it is not that simple, yet it is.
Mother Earth provides for all for free.
Thee is enough to share with everyone here- to take care of all our human needs, food, water, shelter etc.
Dr Wrennell devised a plan to see that all human needs are met and then if people want to work for extra then fine.
Work is Roman mentality- time is money mentality.
If people’s needs are all met then they can grow spiritually etc.
But Maslow’s power pyramid is being used to make sure that those at the bottom stay there. The middle class make it up the pyramid for a bit and then the ladder is pulled from them. Always the same pattern- create Depression on purpose.
The only ones staying at the top are the same few and they do not do work as we know.
Right and left as you put it is all the same 1- its just the usual divide and conquer agenda and it has worked for 5 000 years now.
With the unhusbanded women and their children- well Eugenics considers them immoral and a threat to society- so lock them away.
In reality it is that the ones in control despise the female, mother aspect of themselves, usually never known mother love themselves, cannot feel, psychopathic mindset.
Now we have a collective sadistic psychopathic mindset in control.
So are we going to bow down like our parents and grandparents did and do the evil work of our masters and punish creator mothers and their children? which we still do in secret Irish courts. Will we allow the gagging orders to continue to silence the victims of the system? Will we not speak out on how we are athe hub of Europe in child trafficking?
From my experience, no one in Ireland wants to address the legal abuse of children and their parents in Ireland in 2014.
We seem happy enough to keep the old show going re children.They are still seen as disposable children used to profit from.
But most especially, all the suffering etc of the ones lower in the Maslow Pyramid are “ENERGY FOOD” for those at the top.
Will we ever return to the feminine circle? To the Round table with no male at the head of the table?
Is Eire ready to take Her power back from Roma?
Are we ready to ditch the mother breeder notion of women?
Are we ready to see women as evolved as men?
Are we ready to ditch the training that all Irish mothers are mentally ill/feeble minded?
Are we ready to have self sustaining communities like Kins Domains Russia?
When we achieve all this, then we will evolve back to how we were before the Roman Barbarians arrived to tame us.
We will once again live in harmony with our Earth mother who provides all for free and only asks that we Guard Her.
Religion is a load of crap. Some nuns I have known are evil shits, cruel women. But then cruel women are always in disguise
Feckin religion. I blame deValera for kissing the bishops arses and allowing the corruption to take over during this period
What good have any organised crime groups brought to anyone on this planet….?? Religion I meant…… People should just believe in what they believe in, and pray in there own way…. All these religions have meddled in peoples lives and brought misery…… That is something called Evil….
Religion was here a long time.
The Homo Neanderthalensis may have buried their dead which is evidence of the use of ritual and the use of burial rituals which is evidence of religious activity.
Ritual burials represent an awareness of life and death and a possible belief in the afterlife.
Even chimpanzees are also known to mourn the dead, and notice things that have only aesthetic value, like sunsets, which may be considered to be a component of religion or spirituality.
Religion is thought to have been present in the ancestral human population before the dispersal from Africa 50,000 years ago.
The earliest evidence of religious thought is based on the ritual treatment of the dead
Conclusion: If even Neanderthals know to intentionally bury the dead and place corpses into shallow graves along with stone tools and animal bones , which very least shows an emotional connection with the deceased than these “nuns” fall into a category that is not even on the scale in human evolution!
I’ve thought about that, what prevents these religious orders being illegal organisations? Can they hide their crimes behind a cross? What happened in Tuam is an affront to basic humanity, and like the author said, its probably not the only instance. Absolutely sickening.
I blame the brainwashed fools who believed what the Nuns and Priests told them, the ones who still attend Church and collect for the Church who get married in a Church, close the Churches and stand for Good!
We could blame the brainwashed “fools” but we also have to recognize Stockholm syndrome where the captive bonds with their abuser/captors.
Being brainwashed from a young age in schools etc has its advantages. As Jesuit training goes “give me a child before the age of 4 and I show you the man” Hitler etc used the same tactics through his youth movement.
Today in Ireland, UK etc we have this under the common purpose umbrella, but so few even notice it.
Dispersal from Africa 50,000 yrs ago?
Why are modern human remains of over 100,000 years old, being found in Europe and Asia?
They had no bond with the abusers, they had no choice
In the last week I’ve seen apologists come out with stuff like “How do we know there are that many bodies in there? Did someone count them all?” and “It’s not really a ‘mass grave’ because the bodies were put there over time, and not all at once.” I can’t understand how people can so wilfully miss the point and ignore reality.
If the Pope takes up Kenny’s offer – he better get his ass over to that site and many others. Otherwise, my disdain for the Church will turn to hatred.
Conor.
The apologists have been out in force best one I read was “800 over 40 years that’s only 2 a year” oh so that’s ok then is it? Last meant sarcastically to the idiot who made the comment, one child dying “in care” through malnutrition, rickets, Eric is one too many and not allright
Aics sorry should read 20 a year no 2. Why the red thumb? Is the guy making the statement correct so it is ok 20 kids a year?
@niall. If the pope takes up Kennys offer I would like to see him personaly remove and rebury these children before being sent to an international court for crimes against humanity for his personal involvment with the right wing government in Argentina in the 70/80′s .
Well said Paddy.
Aaaaaw man, I was starting to like Francy.
You don’t need an excuse for hatered
Hey Boss, why aren’t you on site? The company has murdered all these children, shouldn’t you be there? What is sitting in your bughouse doing for any body? Move Pope and assistants, its not like you can’t afford it. Cans of worms?
How is this not an international story? This is a catastrophic failure by both Church and government. An investigation should be done by police not a historian! Each child should be examined identified and buried in their own plot. I cannot believe the callousness exhibited by the authorities.
I think the story will find its feet over the next few days, and it will become huge.
It is an international story, Elle. It has definitely been picked up by UK and US media for a start.
I agree
Having read this article (not the first one on this issue) I have become more and more convinced that the Church could be more totalitarian than communism. I myself am a Polish citizen and remember that time in my country which was under the rule of communists. We were scared, prosecuted but also opposed because we knew we were fighting against evil. The Church of Ireland at that time was even worse, in my opinion. There was no clear division between the Church and State. All or most of the atrocities committed by the clergy was justified or concealed. The crucial difference was that in general for your predominantly Catholic nation, all that evil was committed by those who officially were supposed to glorify and spread the goodness of God. I can imagine that people were spiritually tortured and persecuted and the perpetrators were untouchable. They were intimidated in the name of God. That was a total paradox that tied people’s hands up. The unlimited power of the Catholic Church turned out to be one of the worst sorts of weapon against humanity and human values.
When it comes to Catholicism and its stranglehold on society, the Polish and Irish have much in common.
The biggest difference however is that a communist government owns all the property in the state while the church does not.. Otherwise an apt analogy
One thing, Andrezj, to be careful of; the Church of Ireland is Protestant, not catholic.
Andrezj your opinion on Poland under Communism is disputed by many Polish people I have talked to. In any case, welcome to Ireland where you have bought a one sided story hook line and sinker.
Yes you are perfectly right. The only difference was that at that time the Church in Poland was controlled, spied and vetted by the communist regime. So the Polish clergy had to behave themselves to uphold the nation’s trust. Obviously over the past several years they have been trying to dominate our society but the present times are different and they need to be more transparent like in Ireland.
People can have different opinions… That is their right. I am not in favour of communism but on the other hand I can see a lot of evil in the Church. The Church in Poland is still very rich in spite of the fact it that much of its wealth was confiscated by the communist regime. What is more it was even rich when the communists were in power…Believe or not…
That is not really true. Both the Church and post communists are doing well in Poland. Both of them are rich enough.
Yes. Roman Catholic to be precise.
Andrezj,
The Church of Ireland is not the Catholic Church they’re two separate entities. Just like the Communist Party is different to Fine Gaelas an example.
Aics
Looks as though Jane beat me to it
Sorry, Steve ;)
AICS…sorry if my post was misleading… When talking about the Church of Ireland I meant the Roman Catholic Church.
Sorry Jane, I meant the Roman Catholic Church when I mentioned the Church of Ireland.
John Deegan can you explain that ‘one sided story’ remark?
Dermot… I think nobody knows the other side of the story… Nor does John…I presume….
Dermot yes I probably should. I think what happened those unfortunate children is beyond reprehension. Btw for the record I am not a practising catholic. I feel that it is incorrect to blame only the church. We’ve had Christianity here for 1500 years it served us well in very dark times, when all other lights went out. The narrative now is clearly that the RC is responsible solely for our society’s shameful treatment of children in the past. I disagree. There were good priests but like all power structure bad people got involved. We have to accept that the state played a big role here and we as a people allowed it to happen, and that there were laws against this they were not enforced. There is a horrendous crisis ongoing in Ireland and the UK and US today involving the plight of children in care. It is my humble opinion we should not entirely demonise the RC and “throw the baby out with the bath water”. You can see my previous comments on this thread if you are interested.
As was noted on another article John, we effectively lived in a theocracy until the mid-90′s, the Church was the State and the State was the Church, so, while the authorities were involved and abdicated responsibility, they were still subservient to the Roman Catholic Church, to do otherwise lead to becoming a social pariah in your village, town, classroom, government etc., so I think it’s wholly appropriate to put ultimate blame solely at the feet of the church.
I don’t agree it was a theocracy. A theocracy involves the religious elders as the actual government. Tibet pre the Chinese invasion would be an example. The church was of course far too close to gov but it certainly was not a theocracy.
Might knock some of the smugness off the “oh look how evil the Germans were.” brigade. Ireland had its own death camps and now mass graves run of course by another totaliitarian occupying country and army,namely the Vatican and its black suited storm troopers of preists and nuns.
Even those who spoke out like the good Fr Flannagan were ridiculed and like the Germans living next to “the sausage factory” of Bergen Belsen were ignored or told to shut up for their own good.
“What you need over there is to have someone shake you loose from your smugness and satisfaction and set an example by punishing those who are guilty of cruelty, ignorance and neglect of their duties in high places.”
You got THAT right Father. We are still waiting for someone who will do this in total with Irish society btw.From the church,govt Gardai,civil servants….The whole ROTTEN LOT needs to come down .
A couple years ago there was a scandal about one of the houses for “difficult” boy orphans run by nuns in the Silesia region, Poland. Over many years the nun- director and her helpers encouraged elder boys to rape and beat younger ones to get them punished for some wrongdoings. They took some “pleasure” from watching it. The whole story was revealed by chance during the court trial of one of the boys who when adult was accused of a few rapes. He said he had been raped and then he raped the younger when he was in the orphanage. The nun-director was sentenced to 2 years in jail. The Church in Poland was so strong that managed to keep her out of prison due to her reportedly ill health. Then the media started getting interested in this case and she eventually ended up in prison (a month ago). All the nuns working in this orphanage kept quiet and concealed the truth for many years. The whole case is so appalling and proves that there is something wrong in the very idea of convents where some women become beasts.
1172 the land of Eire and all her people were given as slaves by Pope to King Henry 11 of England to keep us under control and destroy our spirituality. Similar to Indigenous Americans and Aborigines etc. Millions were exterminated on the order of some psycho pope. Cathers, etc.
Catherine, I think you meant King Henry II not 11, just to clarify. Sorry
Catherine how can we regain our spirituality? Not via the RC it seems I was wrong on that.
That’s an excellent analogy Andrzej Mak. It never occurred to me to compare the Catholic church to Communism in that way, but the way you put it makes sense. The paradox, as you put it, of our oppressors masquerading as our saviours, and therefore our hands being tied, psychologically and spiritually, is a very powerful and original, objective analysis of the relationship between Ireland’s people and their rulers in the past. If you would care to have a stab at analysing our currant political crisis , I’d be all ears.
Thank you. Yes i meant Henry11
Dhakina’s Sword.
Thank you for your words of recognition. Unfortunately I am not knowledgeable enough to have a stab at analysing the current political situation in Ireland ( I suppose you mean Ireland saying “our”). I have never lived in Ireland and came across this website by chance and I really like it. Then I came across this article and knowing that spirituality is such a subtle, sensitive part of the human being therefore is so easy to be taken advantage of. The RC Church in this case knew about it and that is why the people who were oppressed by their spiritual leader were so easy to subjugated, especially in the culture dominated by religion and where the state authorities were also subjugated by the RC Church.
Because the communist manifest was so good and pro-human (fighting against any sort of injustice) and in the end it turned out to be just the opposite in practice, hence it entered my head to compare it with the RC Church which has let down so many devoted people and indiscriminately took advantage of its power and position in the society. It seems that any institution, be it anti-religious or religious, having too much authority and power usually becomes disrespectful and very often abusive.
If my messages are not conveyed clearly in English, I am very sorry about it.
Your English is fine and your message is clear.
The Church that rules Ireland is Catholic.
I understand what your saying but Ireland’s Church ie The Church of Ireland (with the greatest political power) is the Catholic Church in the sense that it still runs schools and hospitals and other institutions with their ethos that breaks human rights and destroys souls.
The fact that another Church called itself ‘The Church of Ireland’ was wishful thinking on its part but in hindsight plain unfortunate as who would want to be associated with such a Church as the one that murdered babies and enslaved their mothers?
Yes, you’re right technically.
But so is saying that the Catholic Church is the Church of Ireland.
Yes and let us remember who groomed Hitler and co.
All the evidence is there re the Vatican SS connection with SS being sedes secorum.
http://one-evil.org/content/entities_organizations_nazi_ss.html
Nasi SS, “Knights”, “Knights of the Sedes Sacrorum “, “Knights of the Holy See ”
Year of origin 1933
“When one considers that Nazi SS translates most perfectly into the meaning “Knights of the Holy See”, that the role of Himmler best translates into the new Grand Inquisitor and that over 18 million innocent people were burned alive in human sacrifice camps in Poland and Russia, then the SS were without doubt the new “Holy Army” of a great inquisition against “heretics” orchestrated by the Vatican, Rome”
http://www.spirituallysmart.com/nazi.html
“I learned much from the Order of the Jesuits”, said Hitler… “Until now, there has never been anything more grandiose, on the earth, than the hierarchical organization of the Catholic Church.
I transferred much of this organization into my own party… I am going to let you in on a secret… I am founding an Order… In my “Burgs” of the Order, we will raise up a youth which will make the world tremble… Hitler then stopped, saying that he couldn’t say any more..”
The RC Church in Poland says that 90% of the Polish population is Catholic. By the Church rules everyone who was christened (baptised) belongs to it. The fact is that 99% of them were christened when they were babies which gave them no right to choice ( that is influenced more by tradition than the real religious feeling). The result of this is that the real Catholics (practising and implementing the religion in their daily life) are not more then 15-20%. It is not enough to participate in Mass every Sunday to be called ” a good Catholic”.
During the time of Communism there were very few educational institutions run by the Church in Poland. Those which existed were under strict scrutiny of the communist government. As a result, child abuse by the Church in Poland was minimised at that time. I am not saying that all the educational institutions run by the State were good. No, there were lots of them run poorly as well. However, in my opinion, we DID NOT experience such brutality towards children and unmarried mothers like in Ireland. Our nation was scared and intimidated but it was easier for us to fight against it because it had nothing to do with spiritual intimidation and subjugation based on ” imposing fear of God” on people. I imagine that people intimidated this way are easy to managed, especially when they live in some small villages or towns even nowadays . The RC hierarchy knew about it that was why the did it and managed to conceal many their sins and save the perpetrators. I strongly believe the clear division of the State from the Church is the best option for citizens.
There was no deliberate extermination or death camps in Germany.
Allied Propaganda
The Auschwitz gassing story is based in large part on the hearsay statements of former Jewish inmates who did not personally see any actual signs of extermination. Their beliefs are understandable, because rumors about gassings at Auschwitz were widespread. Allied planes dropped large numbers of leaflets, written in Polish and German, on Auschwitz and the surrounding areas which claimed that people were being gassed in the camp. The Auschwitz gassing story, which was an important part of the Allied wartime propaganda effort, was also broadcast to Europe by Allied radio stations. [15]
http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml
18 million burned alive in Polish camps???
Show the evidence for that?
There is not even solid evidence that any so-called holocaust happened let alone that. And it is curious to note that the one massacre that there is evidence for was done by Soviet communists – the Katyn forest massare,and blamed on the Germans, quite like your lying propaganda piece there.
Don’t feed the troll, people.
Elaine Fogarty.
Stop talking rubbish, please. Have you ever been to Auschwitz? I am Krakow, which is not far from Auschwitz. My parents and especially grandparents saw what was going on in there… They could even smell and see the smoke coming from the burning bodies.
Catherine
Read your post again.
I think you place the importance of us Humans in too high an esteem, you forget we did not evolve from apes, because we still ARE Apes.
What does any other life form give a hoot about our Hospitals, skyscrapers, roads, Cars Planes, chainsaws and atrains?
If sex was not pleasurable none of us would ever have been born at all.
If you are the younger of more than two siblings , thank your lucky stars you were conceived in a time before Abortion was used as a contraceptive, there is a big chance if you are conceived in Australia today as an extra burden on a family with two or more children already, you could be heading for the incinerators in stead of experiencing life .
@John Deegan
It doesn’t reflect very kindly on you to effectively correct Andrzej on the history of his own country.
Your comments would be the equivalent of an Englishman saying
“my Irish friends say that us British weren’t so bad really, therefore you’re wrong, and Britain wasn’t very cruel to Ireland – looks like you’ve bought a one sided hook line and sinker, OLD CHAP.”
It is an undisputed fact that Poland was held and crushed by the iron fists of a totalitarian communist regime. Secret police imprisoned, tortured and killed people. Ordinary civilians were bullied and intimidated into spying on neighbours, friends, and even family. Several prominent Polish uprisings reflect the Polish struggle, or ‘fight against evil’ as Andrzej has put it.
Your strange and unwarranted comment is very silly. Please stop.
Thank you John. Interesting perspective.
The other life forms do not give a hoot about human kind and their hospitals etc because they are already in harmony with mother Earth and live under the Law of the Universe.
I never ever saw any ape turn into a human yet, so that is a lie.
No we are not apes, but we did have our DNA altered by those who thought we were no more than slave breeders for this planet.
For some sex is pleasure, not for all.
Now sacred sex is a whole different experience.Total taboo to speak of it in Ireland though.
But why are you so worried about the female womb and her creation? You will never have to worry about pregnancy and birth etc.
It is patriarchal society conditioning that grooms society to see women who choose not to be a breeder for society as somehow defective.
Anyway, the soul agreement of the in coming child is with his/her mother and they decide together if and when the soul enters here for human experience. Both must be in agreement though. An incoming soul can easily go off and choose a different human mother.
Anyway, if the mothers, unhusbanded, give birth,end up ostracized by society and incarcerated in Magdalene homes etc
Nowadays, give birth and still society calls them leeches. Society clearly does not want any more babies either- well at least they do not ant to pay for them- as in the olden days of patriarchy. In matriarchal society, none of this is an issue as women are treated as equal and were once Goddesses- as we know from Eire herself.
Triple Goddess of Newgrange was changed to triple god. No male god created any humans though in 7 days.
Like the apes turning into humans, I never saw a man carry a baby and give birth. Only the sea horse male does that.
Catherine
You have a spiritual view of the world, you are grouping females as a tribe separate to males, that is not the case,
In most cases the closest bond is between a male and female, and to a larger extent their children, then further their relatives and their dependents , supporters and defendants . That is the basis of a tribe.
When tribes group together and breed exclusively together they become a race with its own couture. When that race breeds too well they will expand and devour all other cultures and out breed them to become the dominant one.
If you think men don’t care about the womb , read some history Henry V111 is a good subject to read.
BTW ‘of course you have never seen a Human ‘Turn into an Ape, because Humans are already part of the Ape family. ‘We are now and always have been Apes’ , ‘a little brighter perhaps then our Cousins the Chimps Gorillas and Orang Utangs, but none the less Apes’.
Evolution its self takes eons of time to slowly change and is governed by the ability to have lots of offspring who successfully survive to in turn- have lots of offspring.
When one species is too successful and breeds to well then it becomes a plague and devours all the available resources to the detriment of not only it’s own survival but all competing spices too.
So where does your female spiritual sect fit into the broader scheme of things?
So where does your female spiritual sect fit into the broader scheme of things?
Really, so you have no knowledge of the ancient priestesses then? You dont remember them teaching men to become whole/holy and complete because they lacked the fe+male energy.
The feminine priestess sect went underground to survive. They burned everything before retreating lest their DNA be used.
John, your idea of tribal is so patriarchal.
Have you no knowledge of life here before patriarchy? when women and children lived alone?
Women did not need men to protect them as we well know from Irish history.
Cathars etc were not interested in being breeders for the patriarchal system, were they, so they were eliminated in the millions.
Before patriarchy all lived in harmony with Mother Earth. We did not try to dominate her, control her, plunder her, rape her in the same way we do women today.
Anyway, when you get to do your own inner journey to truth, come came and tell me what you learned. You will be surprised at all the lies you believed and believe.
John
Fro a male colleague of mine for you-
“Typical inferior but arrogant, male response. He has only a very simplistic perception of anthropology.
He fails to understand that the emotional and psychological relationship between females is DIFFERENT (and often more supportive) and much closer in a different way, than relationships which females have with males. Male with male relationships are usually centred round a common activity (a sport/ pastime/ area of study e.g. stamp collecting) whereas female relationships centre on emotional/psychological needs.
Henry VIII only required females for the possibility of breeding purposes due to external pressures to produce an heir to the throne. He otherwise had little interest in relationships with females.
Humans developed from the same origin as apes but it is incorrect to say they developed FROM apes. The two species share common ancestry.
Male beliefs in religion are centred on a need to assert power and control over others, whereas female spirituality is concerned with the emotional and psychological bonds which bind humans together and is therefore intrinsically female. (Males usurped it as part of their religions so as to appeal to females who would become their subjugated followers). Central to that spirituality is a common love for each other and a mutual respect and recognition of their unique inner power. [Emotional Intelligence].
Female spirituality and female values of harmony, cooperation, and support for each other are what bind communities and societies together to enable their healthy functioning and to support their weakest and most vulnerable members – these are the essential ingredients of female philosophy. Male values are centred on competitiveness, conflict, and conquest in order to assert power and control over others. These are the elements of male philosophy and which are embodied in the works of male philosophers. E.g. Plato’s Republic.”
The Catholic Church was always the richest institution on earth, don’t see mNY WORKS OF ART AUCTIONED FOR CHARITY AT THEIR REQUEST. WHERE WAS THE POPE IN WW2/
Elaine you’re an arrogant ignoramus, sorry, all your effort, not mine
The Irish government has,is and always will look after the rich.
They are the people who look after them.
Sorry but if you are poor,
You are no good to them.
It will never change.
That’s it in a nutshell.
All religions are fairy tales to keep the masses down pure BS
How dare you blaspheme against the one true god….the flying spaghetti monster god….no place in spaghetti heaven for you!!
For the love of Messi would you leave Messi out of it Dave please
The flying spaghetti monster god has a right as well as a left foot….is also a massive threat from corners..
And to hide behind ‘The letter and the seal” is always a good bluff. Catholic or Islamic, don’t give me that shit! Too hard to look inside?
The fact that this has not caused national outrage and not received more attention from the media would lead me to agree with the author of this piece – that we do not care about children in this country.
If an adult’s body was found buried on a mountainside it would be the first item on the 6 o’clock news, but 800 children go virtually unnoticed?
“How many? Ah it can’t be that many, sure it was a different time back then, is Eastenders on yet?”
I read the news daily, and I have no interest in celebrity gossip but I have seen more about Kanye ‘gay fish’ West and his hobbit wife in the last week than this. Much more.
You are very concerned about children as we all are. What happened back then was violence and murder. It was against the law then and is now. The author has no knowledge of our current family court system nor of the plight of children in state care. Did you know your children can be taken from you in a secret court here where you are guilty until proven innocent? Did you know that you have no right to see the evidence against you, that hearsay evidence is permissible. Did you know the former minister for children had to take a court order to find out how many died in state care? The hse refused to tell. It numbered in the hundreds over just a few years. And the vast majority of those children were placed in “care” against their parents wishes and they were never brought to a criminal court never mind convicted. History repeats as the say. And the childrens referendum will pass your right to raise your child as you see fit into the hands of the same state. Force adoption will become the norm. Did you know in the UK each council had “adoption targets” to meet?
Barry,
It was reported extensively in the Irish Daily Mail.
I emailed the journal around lunch time asking why no report ( might be wrong on time but definitely long before 4pm) on this. Since then this article has appeared, obviously time delay to allow checking of facts,but I’m afraid the Journal weren’t exactly at the front with breaking news.
Btw the adoption targets are financially rewarded by the UK gov if met. Would you have any concern about possible conflicts if interest given cash incentives to remove children from their birth parents?
And finally we are heading down the same road as the UK is on. That’s why it’s relevant.
Steve, The Journal covered this story last week on Tuesday http://www.thejournal.ie/tuam-mass-grave-babies-1488267-May2014/ maybe email them again to apologise?!
Dungeon,
Yes they did, the 800 in Tuam, not the additional 2,000+ that the mail reported on today in Cork, rod crew and others.
That’s what I emailed about.
Ah, I see, please accept my apologies!
Dungeon
No need to apologise
Barry, I think it’s more the fact that we are not suprised anymore by what the Catholic Church have done to young women and babies. To be honest all enquiries have gotten us nowhere. They still owe reparations to people which they will never pay. The Vatican have done nothing for the people.
The UK Fostering business was exported to Ireland in 2005. We paid 28 million euros to the UK agency last year.
We now remove non national children for fostering into RC Irish families for assimilation purposes.
Sounds familiar- remember Hitler and his best interest of the child.
Massive cash incentives offering hundreds of pounds per week to foster the same child- but the natural mother does not get same amount.
Foster people go after the extras- making out the fostered children are troublesome etc.
No mention of the trauma suffered by these children in state custody.?
When a mother with a spina bifida child can have her children removed for giving her child the disease and deemed a Munch Mum, then we are back to the same old child snatching operation.
In UK each forced adoption is worth £500,000 approx for all to share in the pot.
http://www.forced-adoption.com/goldenrules.asp
Ireland is simply copying Sweden, USA and UK etc.
Children are still a commodity to be bought and sold for profit- legalised child trafficking.
STOP FORCED ADOPTION! STOP PUNISHMENT WITHOUT CRIME !
http://www.forced-adoption.com/introduction.asp
Yes Irish judges and social workers breach art 6 of human rights every day re forbidding full disclosure.
UK Lord Justices were reprimanded in Strasbourg in 1997 for this, but Irish judges and social workers- gods people are above the law and will tell you so.
The Irish are asleep to the Trojan Horse who moved right in under their noses.
yes, but children in care of the state were and are deemed less than human- in fact called disposable kids in 2014.
20,000 children in care of UK state disappear annually. Most end up as sex slaves and some sold for body parts.
The state does not take itself to court. No one questions the corporate parent as there is no face to look at.
The in camera rule is used to “protect the child identity-” but is that true?
Hitler coined the “best interest of the child” and we Irish use it in 2014?? What is wrong with us?
Bravo Catherine. You are preaching to the converted in me. I thought I was the only one on journal.ie who knows this. Great to know I’m not alone here. There are other human rights regularly abused such as “no punishment without crime”, “justice must be done and SEEN TO BE DONE”, “no double jeopardy”, “innocent until proven guilty”. The list goes on and on. I find the most sickening aspect the abuse of the in camera rule which is to protect the identity of the child but is abused here to forbid any reporting whatsoever. Forced adoption with cash incentives is state kidnapping of kids for cash. Coming soon to Ireland watch this space. Don’t forget the “adoption parties” all the rage now in the UK. Kids for sale, bring your chequebook! The truly disheartening thing is in Ireland we are seeing history repeat itself. And some day the folks decrying the events described above will be reading about this and it is happening right now. I actually believe it’s a sick evil at work here. Evil loves the shadows and operates in secret.
Oh yes and in UK, you can snatch a child and adopt it, even when a Justice Judge refuses the ICO.
Just use the Trojan Horse method- no one will know only the criminal judges, solicitors, Gals, social workers etc.
No paper trail so the child will never be traced by its natural family.
People do not believe us, but we are witnesses to it all. Been in the courts, seen the evil, smelled it, saw files being disappeared, tapes taken.
The in camera rule- is not a law- but it serves a purpose and leads to those who have no experience thinking we are nuts- which is the desired effect- divide and conquer.
I believe you. I can sense the evil in this system it’s structured for exactly that reason, for evil to flourish. I did not know about the child snatching in contravention of the ico. That’s worse than I could ever imagine. I know there is one MP in the UK speaking out. Do you think there is any chance the UK will revisit their child kidnapping model? I believe it was labour who brought it in with a gov containing dozens of social workers. I shudder to think about our future if the illegal childrens referendum becomes law.
yes, I only know as i was present with the party involved.
Dr Wrennell Liverpool criminology has written on the matter.
Yes Blair is the one who wanted all the forced adoptions. He saw a market for these children to childless couples and profit for the legal friends.
Causes terrible trauma to everyone- which is energy for the evil ones. The psychopaths thrive on the pain and suffering of others.
Good, well behaved children are wanted. Gifted and talented children even better as adopters no longer want abused idiot children.
Social workers/child snatchers have too much power- which will lead down the same route as the do gooder church agents, playing god.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1438216/synopsis
Oranges and Sunshine tells the story of Nottingham social worker Margaret Humphreys, who uncovered one of the most significant social scandals in recent history: the forced migration of children from the United Kingdom. Almost singlehandedly, against overwhelming odds and with little regard for her own well-being, Humphreys reunited thousands of families, brought authorities to account, and turned worldwide attention to an extraordinary miscarriage of justice.
She discovered a secret that the British government had kept hidden for years: 130,000 children in care had been sent abroad to commonwealth countries, mainly Australia. Children as young as four had been told that their parents were dead, and been sent to group homes on the other side of the globe, where many were subjected to appalling abuse. They were promised “oranges and sunshine”; they got hard labour and life in institutions. ”
His story keeps repeating itself because the evil ones are allowed to the top and given too much power.
All social workers need psychiatric assessment before being allowed loose on children. most suffer mental illness namely sadistic schadenfreude disease.
http://victims-unite.net/2012/11/04/child-snatching-as-one-of-seven-deadly-syndromes-and-seven-media-cover-ups/
“They take gleeful delight when they see a highly distressed and distraught mother having her children removed from her (permanently) in hospital maternity wards or in Children’s Court precincts.
They then go off to celebrate their `Victory for Rightfulness’ in the nearest pub, with large quantities of lentil soup, muesli, and to quaff generous quantities of Chardonnay.”
Oh this was written by retired social worker- a genuine one.
I heard that a much higher incidence than the general population of social workers were themselves in state care. They then project their own resentment of their own circumstance when children onto innocent parents. It’s so very disturbing.
research shows 55% of social workers were abused as children and as you say, they deem every parent an abuser. They do no healing work on themselves.Oh and a certain % of them have to be employed- with mental illness. I kid you not.You can hear the social worker abuse her own son and rip him apart- but she is untouchable.
I read there about the Musa case on your link. I’m actually in shock. Is any family safe? If police can come and steal children without paper work? What on earth was the reason the police raided the Musa house and stole children? An anonymous phone call by some nutcase to the SS? Would that be enough for the police to come and grab the children?
yes john, that is all it takes.
Trace it back to Sweden and then Germany Hitler and you have neighbors etc getting revenge on each other by making false allegations, etc. The people policing themselves.
Police and Gardai are supposed to actually see the child in immediate danger before snatching the children- but that is ignored as SS social workers orders the snatching
Look at the Roma families in Ireland.
There is big emphasis on assimilation non nationals into white families- same in Sweden.
ECT for the children who do not bond with their adopters.
All kinds of atrocities to children in 2014.
LJ Munby ruling fuels the idea that social workers are just child snatchers’ – See more at: http://www.communitycare.co.uk/blogs/childrens-services-blog/2013/09/munby-judgement-fuels-the-idea-that-social-workers-are-simply-child-snatchers/#.U4pduijySsg
he knows because i proved it to him
Yes the Roma case was shocking. We should not accept that children can be removed from parents care due to such a spurious observation of hair colour mismatch. Can you imagine the trauma that family suffered? Even given that the children were soon returned. Can they sleep at night on peace? Nobody can. Unbelievable. Munby ruling I just read about. Finally some sensible decision.
The agents of the Vatican lurking around our schools and children should be rounded up and herded like sheep on to a rat infested arc which should be towed out into the middle of the Atlantic ocean and left there.
Yes, and it is identical to Hitler/SS rounding up the blue eyed blondes.
The trauma suffered by the children upon snatching is never ending and those with knowledge know what they do. Trauma causes soul fragmentation.
Children loose trust in their parents, believe they did not protect them, etc.
All deliberate as i am sure you know.
Trauma energy is food for the soulless ones.
An amazing article is to be found here from Dublin.
http://wellbeingfoundation.com/sexual-abuse.html
Sexual abuse: eclipse of the soul
The trauma of childhood sexual abuse is almost incomprehensible. Here, Michael Corry and Aine Tubridy explain some of the consequences
I’ve come to realise that sexual assault is an imposed death experience for the victim. That is, the victim experiences her life as having been taken by someone else.
— Evangeline Kane
Thanks for sharing all this information with us Catherine. The more I hear about this the worse it gets. Truth is stranger than fiction.
John, dig deeper re the Roma and why they were targeted in the past and now.
Who are they really and what is their real role on this planet. Targeting one with blonde hair and blue eyes meant someone in the know of old knowledge was on the look out.
We had and have it in Ireland still re the descendants of the Sidhe- People of peace.
Vatican has control for now of all soul contracts on this planet.
Catherine I certainly will dig deeper. Some very interesting insights there. Thank you for sharing them.
Nazi, nazi, Hitler, remember Hitler.
When people want their own agenda to be advanced, a useful tactic is to play with peoples emotions, mentioning buzz-words which have had a negative connotation associated with them. Most people use the nazi and Hitler monster theme for that.
True. but the RC church is never used negatively in the media- and that is odd considering the Nazi SS was the military wing of the RC church and Hitler and the Pope signed their own alliance. Hitler was jesuit groomed as were many of the top SS psychopaths.
Elaine
It’s called ‘Godwiins Law’.
Look it up.
Elaine
It is called ‘Godwin’s Law’.
A person by name of Godwin stated
‘After a given amount of heated debate on the internet -the Nazis will almost always get mentioned sooner or later’. There is a graph to point it out. Interesting look it up.
My grandparents asked ‘WHERE WAS THE pope,WW2,they were in the middle of it,non religious beautiful Dutch people stepping around dead bodies everywhere, I want to know more about this alliance. Can you direct me to any literature, otherwise, thanks, will be interested to find out more. Power is corrupt
The surprise I find is the use of past tense. Families have to sacrifice their privacy and go to the national media to obtain medical cards. Failure to integrate children with physical disabilities into mainstream education. Children living below the poverty line. Children having to experience homelessness. Suffer little children indeed.
Ireland never learned the importance of children. Something I could never understand given that reproduction is possibly the single most important thing any species can do to ensure survival. We call people who abuse and neglect children animals, but the simple fact is that no animal treats it’s young like we do. The rest of the animal kingdom will do just about anything to protect and ensure the safety and well-being of their young. I think it’s safe to say that the complete opposite has happened here and instead the church and the government did everything they could to protect and ensure the safety and well-being of those who abused and neglected our youth, and it’s still happening today
Think back to Tara when parents saw their children rounded up in a circle and burned, unless the parents converted from their old spiritual ways.
Great article.
Great article. Society at the time must have known what was going on and here’s the proof, that a man could come from America and point this out and society ignored the problem.
If it’s still in print, the book ‘Founded on Fear’ by Peter Tyrrell, edited by Diarmuid Whelan, irish academic press, is worth reading, though unbearably sad and grim.
It tells, through a series of letters by Tyrrell to Senator Owen Sheehy Skeffington, what happened him at the hands of Christian Brothers in Letterfrack Industrial school.
Tyrrell suffered all his life as a result of his experiences and eventuall killed himself by burning himself alive on Hampstead Heath.
I could have read it a short few years ago, but now that I have a two and a half year old, I wouldn’t be able to handle it anymore.
I think it’s very true when they say “it’s not until you have children yourself that you realize…”
I hope all the religious people here have the balls to ask their parish leaders what they are doing to ensure this doesn’t happen again. If you don’t then your religion is broken. Time to rip it up and start again – if you really have to. RIP kids.
Image this scenario: a new cult starts up in America. It’s the latest trend, endorsed by celebs etc. They look at Ireland in its bankrupt condition and offer to run our schools for us, and our orphanages and hospitals. They are not in it for the money, they say, just pay us our expenses. One problem: in the schools and orphanages the run they indoctrinate the students. You must be a member of the cult to be employed by them. And there are dark rumours of sexual and physical abuse around the cult. Women are not allowed to hold senior positions in the organisation while the cult leader lives in great wealth.
Do you think such a cult would be allowed set up here as a charity? Would people hand their kids over to be educated by them?
Yet that’s what’s happening with the catholic church, which is nothing more than a cult.
Spot on Dermot. Nothing more than a cult. A child raping, child stealing, child killing cult.
these men of god claim their divine rite to rape children.
Right, and Islam?
Catholics never did any good, Islam and every other religion has.
Catholicism bad all other religions bad. Try having a broader look at things.
*all other religions good.
Ah here, too far by far. I’m pretty sure my teeny tiny frail 91 year old grandaunt nun who visited prisoners who had noone else to visit them is pretty much a frickin’ saint now. So child raping? no. Child stealing?no. Child Kiliing no, she certainly wasn’t. The fact that you two are so happy to generalise reduces the credibility of your arguments.
Religion has so much to answer for in the past and present. I personally have no time for any, however
when you make comments like Dermot and The Doctor, you must remember that while we may not think much of the Catholic Church, many of our parents do and personally I’m happy to let people believe in something even if I don’t. I know faith has helped people deal with grief, tough times etc and hey if that helps them who the f*ck am I to kick up about it. I don’t have the right to ram my opinions down anyones throats…..perhaps thats where it all went tits up in the first place Dermot???
Religion is man made rules, grow up and look for your own connections with spirit, too hard?
I am orphan and a survivor
shame on Ireland that you would do this this to my brothers and sisters and not only that when they want to save money they sent them to be butchered in college s trinity and U. c. d and all so to use us as guinea pigs for drug companies
Where are there bodies
My blood is boiling knowing that that is what we are worthless to you Ireland
It could have been you or me in there
shame Ireland the land of scholars and a abusers
Joseph,
I find the treatment of children “in care” by the Church disgusting.
However your post I cannot believe you are accusing not only the church but also lecturers etc at a Trinity (which I believe was CofI most of the time mentioned) and other colleges of murder (your word butchered) if so then you need to be going the the Gardai with this. They will react nowadays.
Ut as said I don’t believe your claim. Bad as things wee/are they don’t need false accusations.
For the mishandling you went through you have my sympathy
Its well documentet that human tissue was used in research in Irelands universitys and that it was obtained on a no questions asked basis. Medical research was carried out on children in care such as vaccine program carried out in Besboro house in Cork.
The really scary thing is that 800 children in a mass grave in Galway is the tip of the iceberg.
There is a storm comming.
It came out a couple of years ago that some dead children were sold to colleges for training purposes, whether they were killed specifically for that purpose remains to be seen (I wouldn’t be surprised by anything at this stage) his point is valid though and this was brought into the public domain fairly recently
Paddy,
My comment as ref the “butchering” tissue well aware of as for storm coming. It’s breaking today’s mail talk of Cork, Westmeath and Roscrea.
Yes and Paddy Doyle has a lot of facts on his website re using him and others in experiments. On TV, they even showed the proof from scans etc.
http://www.paddydoyle.com/archivenpa/trialbabies.html
This is about dead babies not live sent to college s for plunder are they in jars we all have the right to reasonably burial with a name not a number no mater how old they are
According to the Irish Daily Mail today (say what you want about the Mail they’re good at investigative reporting) there are over 3,000 babies buried in mass graves without any form of gravestone. The report makes harrowing reading.
These Nuns acted contrary to the basic instincts of women that of nurturing and caring for children. Even little girls when playing with dolls show this in the way they feed, bathe, clothe and nurse their dolls.
that horrible rotten evil Catholic church will tell us it was a different time like they did with the rape of children
And these mothers’ crimes were that they fell in love with a man and slept with him?!? (in the majority of cases, anyway). How DARE the state/religious institutions incarcerate them and effectively kill their innocent little babies.The parents of these women should also hang their heads in shame. They should have stood by their daughters and supported them, and fought tooth and nail to make sure they didn’t end up in such ‘homes’. At times like this, I’m ashamed to be Irish.
They can always say and justify themselves…ohhh everything was different then… but God has been the same for many centuries… Was God different then as well? They believed in God committing atrocities beyond ANY comprehension… That was due to powerful indoctrination set on people by the RC Church….
Andrejk I scoured every comment in the thread. There is precisely one poster who questions the veracity of the story, which I don’t btw. I could not find a single comment justifying the murder of children or anyone excusing it.
And still we have kenny, in the dail doing his p.r. stunt towards the c.c . The reality of it was he didn’t give two f (uks about it and just used it as a political stunt
Les Cock….That didn’t take long. You should be commended for your consistency
Really. Les (ock. Really. Are you 6 yrs old or something.
Of course that was a stunt, sure the embassy to the Vatican was re-opened. It was a cheap publicity stunt to get people onside when he and Fine Gael took power by manipulating the feelings of anger that many Irish people feel towards the Church. He wasn’t even astute enough to pretend to pay attention when the new Pope was speaking.
Kenny and co, took Office…. Not power! Huge difference.
Stomach churning. It’s sickening what happened.
The childrens referendum was a whitewash. For how could you have a referendum on the rights and welfare of children, yet after it passes, those very same children have no more, nor less a right, to have a relationship with their own unmarried fathers, nor those fathers any more a right to have a relationship with their own children?
Certainly we’ve moved on as a society. The Church is broken, as it deserve to be. Most children have a chance now – however small compared to others, they have a chance.
Anyone who still actively supports the Catholic Church should be forced to explain themselves the way anyone who still supports the Nazi party should.
Will the pope be tweeting about this I wonder.
Nazi, nazi, Hitler, remember Hitler.
When people want their own agenda to be advanced, a useful tactic is to play with peoples emotions, mentioning buzz-words which have had a negative connotation associated with them. Most people use the nazi and Hitler monster theme for that.
There was no deliberate extermination in Germany:
Allied Propaganda
The Auschwitz gassing story is based in large part on the hearsay statements of former Jewish inmates who did not personally see any actual signs of extermination. Their beliefs are understandable, because rumors about gassings at Auschwitz were widespread. Allied planes dropped large numbers of leaflets, written in Polish and German, on Auschwitz and the surrounding areas which claimed that people were being gassed in the camp. The Auschwitz gassing story, which was an important part of the Allied wartime propaganda effort, was also broadcast to Europe by Allied radio stations. [15]
http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml
Why do you ignore the 120 million people killed by communism, why are people allowed go around with hammer and sickle T-shirts and flags?
No one should ever be allowed to have such power n control !
A look at the names of those in our present Dail will show that the children of the past occupants of that House of Shame did not suffer as the unfortunate infants of this and other unmarked graves. The apple does not fall far from the tree.
The idea this country sold health babies and let the unhealthy ones die in ‘dying rooms’ sounds a bit far fetched to me. The truth is likely more nuanced than that.
A man lets his kid be nailed to a cross sounds a bit far fetched to me.
How innocent of you to believe that it did not happen.
Every country has a dark underbelly, we have the same.
From Norway and Sweden sterilizing disabled people in living memory, to the Church in Spain breaking people with rack rents, there is enough across the world to show that it is not all fun and games.
Then read Sebastian De Carrs and his truth re the children in Scotland being sold off to Australia – healthy children with high IQ’s, measured heads while the rejects were burned .
Read oranges and Sunshine and learn more.
So explain the “nuances” of dumping children who died from malnutrition in a septic tank – not even given the dignity of a “christian” burial by the religious orders who starved and mistreated them?
They couldn’t be sold so they were treated like garbage… Sure they were only little Hellbound b4stards anyway, undeserving of protection, education or “good comfort” from the brides of Christ charged with their care.
I wish people would come to terms with the reality that the phrase in the proclamation about cherishing the children refers not to the minor citizens of this state but all of the citizens of this state. It is a poetic not literal phrase. Which in no way takes away from the problem of the illegal disposal of children’s bodies and the abuse of children and their mothers by this state and it’s agents.
And also goes to show you should never let violent psychopaths who cause rebellions write any sort of offical documentation on which to base a state and a democratic society.T
Let’s get a bit of perspective here; future generations will also condemn us harshly for some of things we do today that we consider quite all right.
Really?? so how do you know that?
And by your use of deceptive intelligence you condone the way the children were mistreated.
No we are Evol- ving back to under the law of One, when we in Eire were not violent, had the most advanced justice system on Earth, no jails needed, all citizens with food and water and housing, all working together, caring for each other, all women and men equal. Women owning property and being in high positions in society. We were the Land of plenty for all under the Universal law of One- there for all to see at Newgrange and TaRa, written in s(tone)
Evolution is love backwards- back to Source under the Law of One- no gender discrimination but each one married inside in male and female energies. No looking to the man in the sky but inside ourselves.
priests raping children sound far fetched too, or what about nuns beating girls to a pulp?
I can understand why people might find this hard to believe, I can understand also why it’s difficult to believe priests raped young boys, nuns abused girls and some priests were leading double lives with mistresses etc – the clergy were held in reverence by the ordinary Irish, the State afforded them power and the scandals reported were/are so far removed from the only subject they spoke and the only book they read how could it possibly be true. Religion is a little like Marxism/Communism, it creates a utopian almost classless society on paper, but with the entire system operating on everyone believing it is good there is the potential for people in power to abuse their position. What much of the RCC became in Ireland was an abhoration, it was so far removed from the teaching they were supposedly following and the most vulnerable in our society were taken into their care. What baffles me is that today we still pussy foot around the subject of removing the RCC as de facto patron of our National Schools and so many morons will fight tooth and nail to preserve this status.
Catherine Mill my comment was about the treatment of unmarried mothers and their babies which is
Is what the article is about. I have no idea where you’re coming from as I never said what happened was wrong, that’s your interpretation and therefore your issue. The point I made was by all means judge and condemn societal past practices and excepted norms but don’t loose sight of the fact they one day we too will be judged and condemned for the practices of today that future generations find abhorrent.
*not wrong
Thank you Sean.
“I never said what happened was wrong, “???
So you are saying it was right?
There is no man in the sky to judge us either. We judge ourselves. We are conditioned by church and society to do so. We are also conditioned not to take responsibility for our own actions. We look to “god” and blame some fella with horns for our own actions. Not long ago we burned women for having sex with the Devil. We still have with finders in HSE and witch finder generals on the bench, so nothing has really changed.
Can i suggest Daisy that you read this morning’s interview with Catherine Corless in the Irish Times, perhaps then you could revise your posting.
Yours in hope,
Joe
How do you have access to information nobody else has about God. You are so sure you are right
Curious as to how religious peoe base their entire lives on blindly believing stuff (which they’re perfectly entitled to do, if that floats their boats), until they hear about something like this and suddenly insist on proof.
Sounds like systematic murder to me. The Catholic Church is the worst thing that ever happened to Ireland.
if you rad the jesuit Oath, you will see why murder etc is the norm for these “beings of god”
The natural result of an unholy alliance between republicans and a church is mass death.
Lol.
Says the Unionist from the North, where the bible thumpers still call the shots and even prevent an election count taking place on Sunday.
Unionism has had more clergy leading it than any other movement outside of the Iranian revolution.
There is no such place as the North. FF types are not known for their knowledge of geography. Watch Bertie Ahern speaking about Cavan in Northern Ireland. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBFsCo5dzdM
There is such a place as the North. I was shopping in Armagh this afternoon and I drove back to my parents house in Monaghan.
If I’d driven to Galway I would be in the West or to Kerry I’d be in the South.
If I was one of your parents I would not let you out of the house on your own.
Are you confused ,Lyons?
Orange kant
The Catholic Church has brainwashed Irish people from the foundation of the state. DeValera allowed this evil to run schools where they carried out their mind control on children. It held back the development of the nation for many years and only now have we broken free of its clammy hand.Never again can we let it have control over our country and ourselves.
Let me ask this.. Why haven’t any of these people been tried for crimes against humanity? It’s vile and disgusting what they did to the poor children.. I wouldn’t say this is the only place with cruelty to children, why is there no one being punished for it. !!!
Because charging the clergy with crimes exposes those who acted on their counsel. Judges , politicans,police forces ect. . They have their arses well covered. As do all the major religions.
Priests, judges etc all wear the same death garb. Barristers are soul reapers for the Vatican.
Once people see the RC Judicial connection from the old days of the dark priests, then it all makes sense why child rape is rewarded in courts.
A sad & disasterous past that is now replaced with incinerating the remains of miscarried & aborted ‘unwanted’ & ‘disabled’ unborn children. One evil replaced by another. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/10717566/Aborted-babies-incinerated-to-heat-UK-hospitals.html
A poor attempt to deflect the topic, Marion. Address the issue at hand, please.
Unfortunately, that is the way it was done.
In some countries when they have an unwanted child, they allow it to be crucified and refuse to intervene despite having omnipotent powers, because somebody ate an apple.
I think you have a point, Marion. Somewhere in your post there’s a point.
Personally, I wouldn’t have equated the two until I read your post. But I can see where you’re coming from.
@Marion. The article you have referenced is sensationlist in so far as most hospitals dispose of all human tissue in the same way. The headline makes it seem that the hospitals sole means of heating is human tissue from abortions and is designed to put the image of hospital orderlys shoveling dead babies into a furnace. I suggest to you that as most abortions in the UK are carried out before 12 weeks that any tissue processed by the hospital in that regard resembles nothing more than a heavy period.
To compare such to what has emerged from Galway is not only incorrect ,it is downright offensive.
You are deliberatly trying to deflect from the horror of children being treated so cruely in life and being disposed of in such a callous manor in death.
Pretty sick comment Marion, you’re basically saying that it’s okay that the catholic church did this because other people do bad stuff too (which in the example you used isn’t even the case).
Marion is a pretty sick woman as her comments over the years have shown here on the journal.
Thankfully, nobody really pays any attention to it.
You need to update your biology on the formation of the child in utero, nowadays even surgery can be performed on the unborn. It’s a fact UK hospitals burn the remains of aborted & miscarried babies in incinerators otherwise are you claiming Amanda Holden is a liar? http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/stop-nhs-burning-babies-says-3276589
Clearly people are paying attention as the topic has veered off course down now- due to patriarchal agenda of getting people all sucked in and wired up over abortion.
Why is it off topic madam chair?
Just looking at the Leinster match where the team are sponsored by the Bank of Ireland who the government took the money from vulnerable families to bail out the banks. The same government gave the GAA €30 million 2 weeks ago while this week kids and sick people lost their medical cards. It reflects the government’s priorities.
Such evil and deplorable acts carried out all because someone ,somewhere decided that a man & a woman should be married before having children.
I wouldn’t like to say that all religion is negative as it has positive outcomes as well but people should not be bound the way they have been …marriages kept together throughout abuse and fear to avoid the shame of divorce..un married mother’s shunted off and hidden ’til their ‘sins’ disappeared… terribly terribly sad.
I remember saying when they found bones beside some orphanage abt 5 yrs ago that it was the tip of the iceberg so sadly I am unsurprised by this and anticipate more sad unfoldings.
This is why I am an Atheist!
So if this never happened you have not explored about whether there is a God or not? So you are an atheist because of other peoples actions or what you are waiting for them to do, not for reasons of any real investigative thinking of metaphysics or philosophy, fairly shallow that. I guess that has more reason to why you are an atheist.
“Brides in christ”..more like fućking monsters..
That’s right Satan is in the church as Christ has always pointed out.
Elaine, you annoy me, you sound very full of propaganda and Christ hasn’t spoken to you on these details, as for always pointed out…do you mean your books and priests? God isn’t systemised, compartmentalised or quotable, get real and try a personal challenge, forget ready made just add faith and your there rubbish, all man made. God sees all, that’s all and I’ve had the full private Catholic schooling, sorry to say, even though I questioned them they kept me on as I was good for their percentages, loved learning. Problem is, requires questions, this made the nuns angry, intelligent questioning?? How dare I!!
Religion poisons everything.
Nothing has changed. Check our family court system. See what occurs in the UK where it’s even worse. Not for long if the illegal childrens referendum becomes law.
Glad to see you are aware.
Family law courts are Inquisition courts with in camera rule.
Judges dressed in black death garb of the old death cult priests.
Red Mass every year in Dublin to show the RC church runs the whole court corporation system under admiralty law.
Thanks Catherine. The system is medieval. Though I didn’t quite understand the connection you are drawing with the RC.
Neither does Catherine.
The Red Mass is a reference to the yearly meeting of judges where a Roman Catholic mass held.
Thanks Paddy, didn’t know about that.
The RC church runs the court system in UK, Ireland, USA etc. If you go to RCJ you can see the men in red there, invoking the RC god to guide the decisions of the judges.
No wonder child rapists get away and women are still deemed feeble minded in Ireland- judicial training.
Inquisition court energy.
Star Chamber rules.
Bible book.
Hammer of the witch, under the desk.
Oh I surely do know.
Headlines of
Mass Murder
should be SCREAMED across the papers here and abroad. It should be on every news program.
The Vatican should be in a state of panic. Instead, the silence is deafening.
They’ve gotten away with murder before. They believe they can again. BUT for the sake of each mother and child we should not let that happen.
A few people are working hard to keep it alive and not buried with the murdered babies.
1. This was written in 2009 http://theraggedwagon.wordpress.com/2009/08/15/new-evidence-that-irish-children-were-murdered/
2. One person is diligently finding out how this came to pass and documenting it: https://storify.com/Limerick1914/children-s-home-in-tuam-1920s-1960s In this is some of the history of this sordid tale in which men did with women’s lives what they willed and they willed that nothing shameful should be seen so crimes of rape in which a woman got pregnant were punished by enslaving the mother and selling or murdering her baby. We talk about Honor Killings with horror in other countries. Ireland under the guidance of the ‘righteous’ Catholic fascist Church, and YES it was, took away women’s’ rights.
3. One lady today posted a gorgeous picture of her son. He was smiling and handsome and a picture of health. She wrote that her son would have been starved and thrown into a tank by the Bon Secours nuns (how misnamed they were!) because he has Downs Syndrome. That hit home.
I’ve written on this theme often as Gaeilge http://ancroiait.wordpress.com/2014/01/25/176-faisteachas-fos-in-eirinn/
The babies and their mothers deserve to have their story told. This is not something to be covered up with a little plaque and a few words of prayer however well-intentioned that may be. Don’t bolster the same Church that did this to them with homage to that Institution. Investigate, prosecute and bring to justice all the living responsible for this. There was more outrage in the country about vandalism to a stone in Tara (and I DO love my heritage) in the country in the papers than the murder of 800 babies.
This country needs therapy and a break from its abuser.
This is Part 3 of the Magdalene Story in the sense that the horrors are coming out slowly as if people could not cope with all the horror at once. And there is more to come. Each murder is diabolical and still people are not outraged. That is not natural. Is the country paralyzed and in need of deprogramming after years of Irish Catholic education? Which of our neighbors will we offend if we talk about it? And what about the kids at school. We can’t say anything. I can see the wheels going round like that in people’s heads.
And can we please talk about the fact that this same Church runs our schools with its ethos?
We need separation of Church and State now. Please share and sign http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/call-for-separation-of-church-and-state-in-ireland
We need a new moral code based on human rights because no church should dictate our education system. We are a pluralist society.
We need these crimes investigated and people prosecuted and reparations made.
This story must NOT be buried.
Thank you Tuigim. Your comment sings to my soul and you are so right.
Give us the names, put names to the accused, the dead and the enablers, scream their names in large Helvetica Bold across the internet, everywhere, who are they hiding behind this institution as humans always do?
When will we take our schools out of the hands of the church. How much more proof do we need that it’s a bad idea.
Nearly 500 committed suicide last year, 3,000 or more over a 10 year period and most as a result of child bullying and abuse at a young age. Politicians are responsible and the church are sometimes the perpetrators and sometimes the families are at fault. It would be interesting to see how many children of sitting Politicians or councillors have committed suicide compared to the people on welfare. Will it change? I doubt it as the rich and elite are doing better and welfare has been cut.
Fr. Peter McVerry, at the cold face of helping such people, as are many more, but let’s condemn them anyway, yes?
This is truly disgusting, but it’s clear the author is not a historian and anti-Catholic sensationalising a very upsetting topic for his own gain. After working for 14 years across England in intellectual disability settings I came across many ageing unmarried mothers who had been interned in disability settings and there children ripped from them as they brought shame on their families, and these were not Catholic families or institutions, but rather it was the society of the time, so it’s very easy to focus on Catholic priests and nuns, but good authors look further than the obvious – poor journalism.
Fully agree Paul. My sentiments exactly.
So the author should have done an article on English institutions? It certainly is a sensational story, that the Catholic Church dumped babies in a septic tank. Stop being an apologist.
Btw Paul. The author is very concerned about what happened children many years ago. Rightly so. He fails to mention the insane family court system here in Ireland and the crisis of children dying in state care having been ripped from their families often on spurious grounds. We are heading down the same route as the UK on this via forced adoption with targets to be met. My comments on this above. Of course real journalism involves more than lazy posturing. The author should consider that in future.
@John. Forced adoption in the UK? The UK has one of the highest forgein adoption rates in the world while having one of the highest rates of kids in foster care in the developed world. Their system is broken . I choose my words carefully here. They cannot give their kids away.Forced adoption??? Please show the numbers and please show us how adoption rates in the UK relates to mass graves in Ireland.
Paddy I am simply a concerned citizen. I don’t have hard figures for you. I disagree with forced adoption against parents wishes. “They can’t give their kids away”. Perhaps you should choose words more carefully it’s a pretty disturbing comment. Any thoughts on secret courts, guilty until proven innocent? The connection between the article and this topic is the welfare of our children. History is repeating itself.
@john. Do you actualy read before posting. I flat out said that i choose my words carefuly. The facts and figures are availavle with a quck search I am a little hamstrung given the fact I post off a 5 year old phone and am only able to open one window at a time. You have access to the internet.I have to work from memory. Prove me wrong and I will yeild. The cps in the UK are running ads to find people to adopt. They cant find places for children over 18 months because people want babies. You are trying to deflect again. The numbers speak for themselves.
Also. A concerned citizen without facts and figures???? Are you for real??
Paddy figures I have are 68k children in local care, 60 per 10k. 5k adoption orders, 4k adopted from care. Those are 2012 numbers roughly a 10% increase on the previous year. The system is close to breaking point. Of course what I do not see is how many were placed and adopted against the parents wishes and how many of the parents were convicted in criminal court of a crime. Also I do not see figures for the number of those kids who were abused or died in care, nor how many exited care to end up homeless drug addicts and prostitutes. In Ireland hundred of children have died in state care. My concern is that your children can be taken from you in secret against your wishes for no valid reason. Take the plethora of horrific cases like the Musas for example. My point is that people are expressing concern about the plight of children yet no one is speaking about this. Now if you wish to continue please let me know your opinion on the family court system, the weight of evidence required to have a child removed from parents and court secrecy. These are key issues which must be resolved if we are to shine a light on childrens welfare.
Btw 60 per 10k kids in care is 1 child per 166. To me this statistic is shocking and concerning. Perhaps if the system wasnt removing so many children from their families in secret courts against their parents wishes for spurious reasons, there wouldn’t be so many children languishing in care? Perhaps then the problem of “cannot give their kids away” wouldn’t be an issue?
In Ireland the rates of children in care are the same almost, 54 per 10k (5.4 per 1000). And rates are rising.
Forced adoption is the answer?
Very very deeply concerning to any man or woman of goodwill.
http://www.dcya.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/Child_Welfare_Protection/childrenincare.htm
http://www.baaf.org.uk/res/statengland
Btw the rate of child abduction in the uk runs at 1.3 per 10k. Sorry I don’t have the rate for Ireland. In the UK You are 60 times more likely to have your child taken from you by the state than kidnapped in the traditional sense if the word. There is a term for having your children removed permanently from your care in secret against your wishes even though you did not necessarily do anything wrong. It’s called kidnapping. And state kidnapping is even more pernicious as you would be gagged from ever speaking in public of it. I eagerly await your reply.
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/oct/04/child-abduction-statistics-england-wales
And likewise Paddy if I am proved wrong I will yield. I am interested in the truth.
One reason the kids cannot be given away is because many people are wising up to the truth re child snatchers and using children for profit.
Oranges and Sunshine movie woke a lot of people up.
Also many people now doubt if the children for adoption are legally adoptable- is there a real care order at all? Could the legally kidnapped children be taken back from them?
After the Hardington case with the children adopted- and it was brittle bone disease- people are not trusting the snatchers, and their money making agencies. Children in care abused and murdered- Crimbie case-are all there as proof that
” care is the one place where you can legally abuse a child and get paid for it.”
Also now people know children are 6 times more likely to be abused in corporate care than with natural family.
There is a sickness in the Irish psyche, when it allows this crime not to be investigated. People want a memorial but balk at the idea of investigation. Over the decades I can recall the baby that was found in Dunlaoighre in a bag found by young boys, but years later the mother of the baby came forward and rather than support her she was vilified. We had the child in Granard who died in childbirth in church grounds and was buried before any investigation could be carried out , Anne Lovett was her name I believe. There was the Kerry Babies tribunal , where one answer to the question of two babies found dead was it was one mother but two fathers …… We have had tribunals reports investigations , til we are tired and broke, but the real thing is until we stand up collectively and denounce this perverse behavior and be open and honest then it will continue to happen. 800 bodies of dead babies and children is not unfortunate, it is diabolical. If it happened in China or Romania or in any other country there would be people screaming blue bloody murder , yet the same people are so silent when it comes to Ireland. We live in a sick society.
Should I be surprised to see that no fingers are being pointed at the state who was certainly aware of this and society who was happy to lock young unmarried mothers away in institutions like this?
Are we so filled with hatred for the catholic church that we are willing to let other parties who were also complicit in this atrocity get away without blame?
We are a Theocracy, Evert, though people don’t like to admit it.
The Church runs the schools, hospitals, and other institutions and no politician has the guts to take the Church on.
So yes the government is responsible too for letting the Church get away with these crimes and for aiding and abetting them or as they might see it complying.
Please sign and share http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/call-for-separation-of-church-and-state-in-ireland
Is anyone ready to call it what it was: Fascist Ireland?
Murder, slavery: comply or face torture. Get caught and face imprisonment and your baby taken from you. That’s what happened to girls who were raped. Instead of help, they got hell on earth.
Wake up politicians and lawyers and do something NOW.
So todays designer baby cull is ok? – capitalism
so communist Russia set about designing better human beings – eugenics in communism
so eugenics was started in UK and US – capitlaism
No word from you on that?
No condemnation from you about the human rights abuses in islam?
what do the human rights abuses in islam have to do with the murder living breathing children in fascist ireland?
Quite simply, a marvellous article ,full of the most necessary and harrowing detail needed to awaken our often dark and self centered selves.
what was wrong with those people in authority,i feel sick,if there is a heaven then those babies and children are there.
Sadistic psychopaths.
Thomas Sheridan explains these people accurately.
http://www.whale.to/c/know_thy_self.html
Primary ‘Absolute’ Psychopathic Traits
Absolutely no remorse
Mysterious past, you don’t know where they came from. You can never get to their past.
Invented personas, no personality.
Invoking pity
High level of testosterone
Secondary ‘Relative’ Psychopathic Traits
Sexual promiscuity/Asexuality/One night stands
Narcissism/boastfulness a sense of being born for a special purpose.
History of brief or failed relationships ending badly which are always the fault of the other party – wants to/or does get engaged/married on impulse.
Waking up in a pool of sweat even in cold weather.
Migraine headaches
Falling asleep instantly and/or waking up instantly
Idealisation followed by cold rejection
Eyes dead and lifeless, then racing frantically from side-to-side with a “win” or scam.
Needing, at most, 4-5 hours sleep a night.
Constantly looking and acting busy for no apparent reason.
Highly unreliable/broken promises.
Constantly trying to correct others’ opinions (arrogant pseudo-sceptic/debunker)
Righteous indignation/condescending/always right – never wrong
Crocodile tears and unconvincing emotional responses, superficial laughter.
Extreme and obvious flattery – emulating/Sycophantic.
Claims to be the only person who really relates to you
Obsessed with the latest pharmaceuticals/hypochondriac.
Has no real creative talent (can only copy – can’t innovate or be original)
Phoney altruism
Gifts designed to “buy you” or to mould you in a certain way (their taste in clothes, pop psychology books)
Little or no interest in parenting (even if they have children, while claiming to adore them)
Easily bored [Boredom]
Becomes obsessed with a hobby or causes/individuals and then loses interest instantly.
Feels they are entitled to the best of everything and expects to be indulged.
Exploits parents, the elderly or handicapped (money, free rent, getting into wills, legal help)
Claims to have a special relationship with God or fakes being religious
Parasitic lifestyle/slacker/highly-strung “genius”/middle-aged student who never graduates
Expelled/‘flunks out’ from educational institutions and then blames the entire institution and not themselves.
What sort of a disreputable kip is Ireland. Religious f©cking nuts with crazy racist ideas about people…. disgusting….
Isn’t it about time that all this arguing stopped ? The facts are there for all to see. I find it disturbing that anyone should think that collecting money to raise a memorial plaque is appropriate. The order that perpetrated this horror should be made to pay for the removal, investigation and sympathetic internment on land that the Diocese of Tuam already owns. I live in this diocese, and can assure you that their land holdings are enormous. I also know people locally who went through the church/state institutional process at that time – maybe we all should be listening to their voices rather than those with their own agenda here.
This was a death camp. If this happened in another country we’d be pushing for the UN to be involved, if this were another country we’d be on the streets calling on the perpetrators to be hung. Yet we can’t year ourselves away from the likes of Eastenders to care.
Have you ever seen a hungry, unwashed, badly dressed, uneducated priest or nun ? I rest my case ! Working for God, people or should I say sheep are so silly. All you need is an over educated power seeker to reek havock, nothing will change , its like watching an episode of Doctor Quinn medicne woman, no one ever learns, they just keep on repeating the same mistakes over and over ! How can any one person alone do anything about any of this ???????????
Abortion is another issue, these were children that were born, possibly full term, up to, who knows what age!! these children ended up in a septic tank.!!!! has anyone stopped to think about that for one millisecond.. It was a different time, a time when the local priests and nuns had total power.. a time when the nuns and priests who taught children always treated the children of the wealthier parents very very differently from the poorer.. a time when if a boy made a mess, a girl was asked to clean it, at home and in school.. A time when people put their trust in the Church.
The trust was abused so many times.
This story, for me, engenders anger and sadness at the same time. It is our evolutionary duty to care for children and the mothers of those children. Children were sold in order to finance a disgusting enterprise. Children died through neglect and their mothers suffered from their loss. They would have been told “It is the will of God”, but no, it was the evil work of individuals whose spiritual pride made them apostates of hell.
here here
Anyone who believes there is such a “thing” as god is half mental anyway. All religions should be abolished, biggest cause of pain, suffering and death known to mankind.
Gardaí are saying that there will be no investigation because they don’t believe there was any impropriety. No impropriety! 800 bodies in a septic tank and they say that there was no wrongdoing. At the very least these bodies were disposed of illegally.
The Gardaí, government, and church don’t want an investigation because it would be an embarrassment to them: sign the petition and force the issue http://tinyurl.com/kortvmp
and to think theres many in this country who think muslims are barbaric and uncivilised…………………………
Yes, if the good Sisters and BSHS have not read this; then it’s time they do. Our children are our future. ..Our seniors are our legacy. .Are they being treated justly???
Evil
Donal, I don’t want to be the bearer of bad news old boy, but I fear you are about to be made to look extremely foolish after this morning’s interview with Catherine Corless in the Irish Times. In fact it looks as if you have made this whole story up.
Can I suggest an apology is in order and possibly a resignation? I would would prefer the latter.
where were the so called confident people back in the day? where are the confident types who made the women in question pregnant? where are they? where are they hiding? are confident men only confident in making money.
Donal, I don’t want to be the bearer of bad news for you old boy, but you’re about to be made to look extremely stupid over this article you’ve written. In fact after reading this morning’s Irish Times interview with Catherine Corless, it looks more and more like you’ve just made all this nonsense up.
Are you about to apologise or even better hand in your notice! I would recommend the latter.
We should all be asking to see the financial records for these institutions, and then we could see just how much money the church/orders/state made from the sale of babies over the years. Then ask me for a donation for a memorial plaque ! Human trafficking and slavery are not new, but throwing children out with the rubbish puts an entirely different face on it.
Regarding the children’s referendum, it didn’t change much. This country’s family law system would rather give custody to a drug-addicted mother, than a responsible father. I don think drug addiction is the mother’s fault – addiction happens to everyone, big or small, but this government still doesn’t give a shit about children.
800 Irish babies die over decades, from the past and people get (rightfully) get upset. Today 800 babies are put to death in abortion clinics every two months and no one says a word.
What a strange mentality that exists here, what does the abortion debate have to do with this issue?
To me this incident is devoid of any moral guidance and certainly lacks love.
The church is responsible for convincing normal woman who devoted their lives to serve the church
that this act was justified, that judgement was more important than compassion.
I don’t see how the churches attempts to, in its eyes, better society through a stance on abortion has
anything to do with a very cruel act carried out in its name. All that serves as is a smokescreen to
divert judgement away from the church, and is that really important.
The abortion issue is an important one and one I’d like to see resolved away from a discussion about
a disgusting act performed by the church.
It seems to me the common reaction from the church and church supporters is the fear of judgement being pointed inwardly, to steer criticism away from itself. I suggest it deals with issues with values it claims to support, such as love, compassion & forgiveness.
Apologise, teach us what it is to be able to forgive, place compassion above preservation and earn some respect in doing so.
I’m about to have my first child and am very reluctant to bring that child into a organisation so judgmental and unable to practice its own moral code. If a corporation was to leave just one child to die in a room I don’t think any amount of charity work could make that ok.
Ireland is very lucky to have an institution like the church to aid in nurturing communities and provide a moral guide to people who are lost and compassion to those on hard times. But if the reality of this is to simply cast judgments, especially with such hypocrisy, I want my child to have nothing to do with it.
Never liked those nuns anyway bitter old bitches
have your say