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Minister for Health Simon Harris TD looking at a model of St Vincents University Hospital. Sam Boal/Rollingnews.ie

Ex-hospital master to Simon Harris: 'Ask nuns about their plans for €300m hospital'

Dr. Peter Boylan says the minister must quiz the Sisters of Charity.

THE FORMER MASTER of the National Maternity Hospital has said that it is “just not on” that the Sisters of Charity are to be the owners of the new facility.

The National Maternity Hospital at Holles Street in Dublin is moving to a new €300 million facility on the grounds of the current St Vincent’s Hospital.

The site is owned by religious order the Sisters of Charity and the proposed deal will see the order owning the facility as it provides the lands at no cost.

A petition opposing plan has now topped 50,000 signatures with many pointing out that the order owes money to a redress scheme set up for the survivors of religious abuse.

Speaking today on RTÉ’s Morning Ireland, former Holles St. master Dr. Peter Boylan said his concerns were based on whether the religious beliefs of the Sisters of Charity would affect medical care at the hospital.

Boylan was responding to a comment from St. Vincent’s University board member Sister Agnes Reynolds to the Irish Times. Reynolds said she “can’t make a judgement” on the precise medical care to be provided at the hospital.

“When she’s asked about whether or not the congregation would influence medical care provided, she said that she can’t make a judgement on that,” Boylan said.

Now we’ve been down this road before with the religious on the issue of mental reservation. What she probably means is we can’t make a judgement on that now but we’ll wait until the hospital is built and we can make a judgement call.

The Department of Health has promised that the current ethos of the National Maternity Hospital will not be affected by the new deal and says that it will operate ‘without religious distinction’.

“The identity and ethos of the current NMH will be retained,” the department said in a statement.

The new company will have clinical and operational independence in the provision of maternity, gynaecology and neonatal services, without religious, ethnic or other distinction, as well as financial and budgetary independence.

Boylan, however, said that this is not how religious hospitals operate elsewhere in Ireland or the rest of the world.

“That would make the new hospital unique in the world in that it would be the only hospital in the world owned by the Catholic Church and effectively run by a company that is owned by the Catholic Church to allow things like IVF, sterilisation, abortion, gender reassignment surgery etc, etc,” Boylan said.

Health Minister Simon Harris has said that the State is to hold a golden share in the ownership structure of the hospital, something he says ensures clinical decisions are free from a religious veto.

In addressing the minister, Boylan says Harris needs to ask the Sisters of Charity directly if they will stand in the way of certain medical procedures:

They need to be asked, explicitly by the minister, because it’s his responsibility, he’s the one who can sort this out. He needs to ask them: ‘Will you allow abortion, sterilisation, gender reassignment surgery, IVF practices to be done in a hospital that you own, run by a company you own?’

Boylan added that the current management of Holles Street were left with “little choice” but to go along with the proposal but that he feels it is wrong.

“I think that, unfortunately, Holles Street were left with little chance, they need a new hospital, the women of Ireland need a new hospital. It’s a wonderful design but the structure is completely wrong. It’s just unacceptable for this State, our money to be given to the Sisters of Charity to build a hospital, worth €300 million. It’s just not on,” he said.

Speaking later on Today with Sean O’Rourke, the current Master of National Maternity Hospital Dr Rhona Mahony said that there is a “triple lock” which guarantees the independence of the new hospital.

“There is a triple lock in place to guarantee absolute autonomy and independence of the clinical services we deliver,” she said.

If this does not go ahead, and if we’re going to mix this really important critical development for women with redress scheme, are we going to punish women further in this country by actually interfering and getting in the way of building a hospital that is so urgently needed for women.

She added that the location of the new maternity hospital right beside St. Vincent’s Hospital is safer for women and represented “the future of healthcare”.

“We have to come up with an agreement that protects the integrity of both hospitals,” Mahony said.

“On the one hand we need independence to give the care that we need to give and that includes contraception and termination of pregnancy and we have achieved that. We have absolute operational and clinical independence. We also have to integrate into a larger campus.  This will be of such enormous benefit to women and no one is looking at what women will achieve here.”

Read: ‘I really thought we were beyond this point’: Protest to be held tomorrow on new maternity hospital >

Read: Over 40,000 sign petition to prevent Sisters of Charity becoming owners of maternity hospital >

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127 Comments
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    Mute Soccer T's
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    Apr 20th 2017, 9:54 AM

    Now this is an issue worth taking to the streets for!

    822
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    Mute Brinster
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    Apr 20th 2017, 12:16 PM

    @Soccer T’s:

    How many hospitals are currently run by religious orders?
    Should they all be CPO’d? Can they be, given our constitutional protections on property ownership?
    Would that be the best use of public funds at the moment?
    If the current Master of NMH (a huge advocate for women’s rights) supports this, should her opinion be ignored?

    This issue is massive but there is no quick fix. Every possible action would have consequences. Bear in mind how long it took to finally get started on the National Children’s Hospital. And no clinician is saying there is anything wrong with the co-location, just the ownership and structure.

    If the current Master of the NMH is in favour then we need to look for how to progress this issue without delaying what is a badly needed facility.

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    Mute AnnieBelle
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    Apr 20th 2017, 12:24 PM

    @Brinster: Read St Vincent’s Mission Statement: “To bring the healing love of Christ to all we serve” Their vision is and I quote “based on the mission and philosophy of the Religious Sisters of Charity, our shareholders”. Do you think all the gobildiygook has any place in healthcare?! Can you not see why people have a massive massive problem with putting our women and children in a hospital run by The Sisters of Charity? Surely they had to envisage some sort of back lash and outrage, you’re right there is no quick fix but this is 2 fingers up to the nation and once again shows that the powers that be can sweep the atrocities of the past under the rug and move on with out any redress

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    Mute Brinster
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    Apr 20th 2017, 12:30 PM

    @AnnieBelle:

    Fully agree Annie – it doesn’t have any place.

    Read what the Master of NMH who has been a constant supporter of Women’s rights has said today –

    Dr Rhona Mahony said that there is a “triple lock” which guarantees the independence of the new hospital.

    “There is a triple lock in place to guarantee absolute autonomy and independence of the clinical services we deliver,” she said.

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    Mute Jon Mackey
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    Apr 20th 2017, 12:31 PM

    @AnnieBelle: this should be a national scandal!!
    This generation has the power to bury the Catholic Church’s influence in Ireland once and for all. Let’s not let it slip past.

    44
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    Mute john g mcgrath
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    Apr 20th 2017, 12:33 PM

    @Brinster: no point in asking Harris he’s a seagull yes boss no boss and

    22
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    Mute Brinster
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    Apr 20th 2017, 12:36 PM

    @Jon Mackey:

    If you turn this into a political football for a proxy war with the Church, we’ll never get the hospital we need.

    That is what really grates with me about this – people will happily use this as a tool to further their agendas.

    And I 100% believe that we should separate Church and State.

    But we need to start by amending our constitution – the first line of it mentions God for goodness sake – NOT by delaying a badly needed hospital to score points.

    11
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    Mute AnnieBelle
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    Apr 20th 2017, 12:41 PM

    @Brinster: Its not about scoring points though is it? There is a massive opportunity here for the government to dig their heels in and for once grow a set. Why does it have to have the Sisters of Charity involved? Why cant the government purchase this land? Or use it to recoup the unpaid fees for redress that the Sisters of Charity owe? The land is there for use so take the Sisters of Charity out of the equation completely. And location wise it is actually a good spot I agree

    32
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    Mute Brinster
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    Apr 20th 2017, 2:57 PM

    @AnnieBelle:

    If they could purchase the land in isolation, then absolutely I’d agree.

    I think the problem would be the Nuns wouldn’t agree. And they not only own the site but also the sites of many other hospitals.

    So you’re basically starting a turf war over one hospital which could damage the relationship with the owners of the sites o other hospitals.

    Again, I’d much refer if they weren’t involved, but the simple fact is that they are and unless you CPO every single church asset, you have to work with people and not against them.

    At least we know they have zero operational and clinical influence and will not profit from it.

    5
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    Mute JoseMacPhisto
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    Apr 20th 2017, 3:55 PM

    @Brinster:
    Harris was presumably seeking for the greater good, and the location of the new hospital makes sense on paper. I believe this is the likely reason Dr. Rhona Mahony has broadly supported the arrangement, although (as you can see on Harris’s twitter convos, she gives no indication of support for the arrangement).

    The problem partially resides in that he overlooked this issue significantly, and never seemed to even try to negotiate differently. As Dr. Boylan pointed out, there are already significant issues with the current practices in Vincent’s which are likely down to the influence of the nuns.

    Doing this right is still more important than doing this correctly. If abortions are legally allowed, the nuns could number up to 4/9 board members, suggesting that they need only one conservative member to stop such procedures from taking place.

    They could CPO the section of land that they need, or at least threaten it. I suspect a group of grizzled old nuns could do without the lengthy legal procedures that are likely to go with it.

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    Mute AnnieBelle
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    Apr 20th 2017, 4:06 PM

    @Brinster: to be honest I couldnt care less if the nuns agree or not. The fact is that regardless of what Harris is saying about them not having say in the day to day runnings of the hospital they will. We are essentially handing over a 300mil hospital to a historic organisation that was named and shamed in the scandals in the publication of the Ryan report. This 300mil is made up of tax payers money, funding etc. It should not just be handed over willy nilly to the Sisters of Charity. Why do the Sisters of Charity want to own a maternity hospital? They will have a say in the operational functions if they sit on the board of directors. I just dont see how on earth this whole fiasco is going to work?! The Dept of Health have confirmed that the Sisters of Charity will be the sole owners of this hospital. That we are supposed to sit back and believe that the sole owners of our National Maternity Hospital are not going to have any say in the goings on? Are we really supposed to believe that?!

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    Mute JoseMacPhisto
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    Apr 20th 2017, 4:06 PM

    Well people; it’s time to tell them yourself.

    Either post a message on their page here or send them a message via your account. They appear to be reading messages sent to them.

    https://www.facebook.com/rscvocations/

    No need to be vicious or uncouth, but these people do need to get the message.

    4
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    Mute AnnieBelle
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:13 AM

    This whole issue does not sit well at all. I understand that a lot of the land is owned by the Church, but to try and put a National Maternity Hospital on a site owned by The Sisters of Charity who had such a hand in the destruction, the handling, the absolute disastrous care of our women and children, its just a smack in the face. The church has absolutely no right to be involved in anything that goes on in the State. Its time for the government to grow a back bone, separate the church and state for once and for all. What a kick in the teeth for all those survivors and those who perished at the hands of that sick organisation

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    Mute Tony Daly
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:18 AM

    @AnnieBelle: that is very well expressed. It is a good comment.

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    Mute Peter Cavey
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    Apr 20th 2017, 11:28 AM

    @AnnieBelle: very well said.

    70
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    Mute Yap McGregor
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    Apr 20th 2017, 9:55 AM

    Plans to run hospital? How about calling the Criminal Asset Bureau!

    400
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    Mute Willy Malone
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    Apr 20th 2017, 9:59 AM

    FG FF and the Church rule since foundation of state nearly 100 years now…
    Keep on voting them and hope for the leopards to change their spots ..
    We need change hugely ….

    284
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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:05 AM

    Its a bit of a joke as Irish hospitals are now desperate to recruit staff from wherever they can, including Muslim countries like India, Eygpt and Pakistan. These hospitals need to stop pretending that the Catholic Church is a superior religion. Keep religion for the churches and leave our hospitals and schools to get on with their work unhindered.

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    Mute Matty kinevan
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:45 AM

    @Chris Kirk: Muslim countries like India?

    46
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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:56 AM

    @Matty kinevan: Indeed India has many religions including Hindu & Budism, but according to the 2011 census of India there are over 138 million Muslims in India

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    Mute Just Me
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    Apr 20th 2017, 11:13 AM

    @Chris Kirk: India is not a muslim country. Have you never heard of the break up of India into Pakistan and Bangladesh.

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    Mute Just Me
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    Apr 20th 2017, 11:14 AM

    @Chris Kirk: Out of a population of over 1 billion

    14
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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Apr 20th 2017, 11:47 AM

    @Just Me: Indeed and this is a country of under five million people sold out to the Catholic church. What a pack of sheep we all are, bowing and scraping to priests and nuns in the hope that we get a decent burial when we die.

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    Mute Rosa Parks
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:21 AM

    Hope this will be start of mass movement for secularisation of public services.

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    Mute Joe Travers
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:20 AM

    We can’t let up on this. This is the ultimate slap in the face for abuse survivors that our government would get into bed with these people again, after every single child pulled out of a septic tank. We will jump around streets for water but this is much more than that. These sisters should be run out of this country, not given a 300 million play area.

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    Mute Lazlo Saint Pierre
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:29 AM

    @Joe Travers: Sign the petition,Joe, for a start, a protest would be supported if one was to organize it, and don’t be dissing the water protest movement, it’s an important issue, water, if you want to live, and it has played an important role in showing the people that protesting can bring results when properly organised.

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    Mute Joe Travers
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:33 AM

    @Lazlo Saint Pierre: not dissing the water protest just highlighting the need for people to stand up against this decision too. I did sign the petition and hope others will.

    59
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    Mute Paul Mc Manus
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    Apr 20th 2017, 9:52 AM

    I cannot express enough how angry I am at this decision. I am literally fuming her. Disgrace disgrace disgrace.

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    Mute PVD
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:52 AM

    @Paul Mc Manus: Agree , they never considered buying the site . ! Why the order does not donate the small bit of land to resolve this.
    If its not about money , i don’t understand it.

    91
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    Mute lavbeer
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    Apr 20th 2017, 3:13 PM

    @PVD: the land is linked to the rest of the hospital. Could they be split? I doubt – too many shared areas.

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    Mute PVD
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    Apr 20th 2017, 3:16 PM

    @lavbeer: : “why would we build a modern hospital that isn’t entirely public owned.”

    He said he would have looked at the value of the land and at the government’s agreement with the religious order on divestment for a possible solution.

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    Mute Melissa O'Callaghan
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    Apr 20th 2017, 5:23 PM

    @lavbeer: that is easily solved the state to take ownership of both hospital. Ireland is no longer a third world state without a social service safety net, in need of charity. It is about time they saw the religious orders as private health providers and not charities doing good work. They are providers who owe the state millions – remove the religious filter and see them for what they are and make them accountable.

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    Mute Tomasz Irlandczik Krótki
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    Apr 20th 2017, 7:32 PM

    @PVD: it’s about power, influence and control. The majority of staff will be RC. The owners will be RC. Regardless of the religion of the patients the treatment will be influenced by the Roman Catholic Church, which is, by any definition, a criminal organisation with a lengthy history of crime at local, continental and world levels. They are unfit to have any connection with any public facility in any country. Can no-one rid us of these accursed religious?

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    Mute lavbeer
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    Apr 20th 2017, 9:06 PM

    @Melissa O’Callaghan: take ownership? What does that mean exactly? Buy them out or just steal it?

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    Mute Enda Reynolds
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:14 AM

    Build it in the middle of the country, it is the national maternity hospital after all, not the Dublin one

    108
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    Mute Brinster
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    Apr 20th 2017, 12:06 PM

    @Enda Reynolds: That would fly in the face of all clinical advice. Co-location is the recommended best practice. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

    It should be located in the major population centre.

    Whatever about the Nuns involvement – and I agree there are huge questions to be resolved – we have to listen to medical opinion on where best to put the hospital.

    Otherwise its just people playing politics.

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    Mute Paul Lane
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:10 AM

    This was a cover up and was hidden from the public and now the government via RTE are fighting hard to fool us into thinking everything is alright when in fact this is a lie conceived by Fine Gael the catholic parochial party

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    Mute 8bitplebian
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    Apr 20th 2017, 9:53 AM

    If you look at that photo on a small phone it almost seems like he’s gesturing like Tony Montana towards a wedge of notes.

    79
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    Mute Missyb211
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:28 AM

    Former Holles St. master Dr. Peter Boylan concerns may be based on whether the religious beliefs of the Sisters of Charity would affect medical care at the hospital but the rest of us are concerned with why the eff was this deal proposed? What is the reasoning behind it. Is there a future plan to hand the land and property back to the state when it is worth more as was part of the indemnity deal? What’s going on?

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    Mute John O'Driscoll
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    Apr 20th 2017, 11:00 AM

    @Missyb211: The guy you mention is a committed pro-abortionist whose agenda in raising hares at this stage has to be seen in that light.

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    Mute Francis Mc Carthy
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    Apr 20th 2017, 11:33 AM

    @John O’Driscoll: a ‘committed pro abortionist’ Yikes! The only ‘pro abortion’ people that I know are the people that call themselves “pro life” ..

    Anyhow..as an actual medical professional that has worked all of his life as an obstetrician and gynaecologist-Dr Peter Boylan, has said that :”medical staff are forced to walk a “legal and ethical tightrope”.”

    “How close to death do you have to be? There is no answer to that.”

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    Mute AnnieBelle
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    Apr 20th 2017, 12:13 PM

    @John O’Driscoll: “I think our constitutional amendments were profoundly hypocritical. It is okay in our constitution to travel abroad for a termination and it is okay to give them all the information they want about a termination. But we cannot do it in this country so our constitution is inherently contradictory and hypocritical,” -Dr Peter Boylan. I cant say I wholeheartedly disagree with that statement. And considering he spent his entire career in obstetrics and gynaecology, to head up foetal medicine and to implement it in the 1st hospital in Ireland I think his opinion is very much worth while

    23
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    Mute John O'Driscoll
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    Apr 20th 2017, 12:19 PM

    @AnnieBelle: The Constitution of Ireland 1) does not reach beyond the water’s edge 2) is subordinate to all ”laws acts and measures” of the EU. Accordingly the Constitution cannot prevent someone from travelling under the EU freedom of movement principle and it cannot prevent someone from accessing goods and services lawful in other member states regardless of their legal status here.
    So, the Constitution cannot stop someone travelling to Amsterdam to consume some of the herbal offerings legally available there but not here. Likewise it cannot stop someone travelling to Eastern European countries were handguns are legally available and using one there, even though handguns are illegal by and large here except in the case of police and military.
    Accordingly, no conflict, contradiction, or hypocrisy. At least de jure if not de facto.

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    Mute Gulliver Foyle
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    Apr 20th 2017, 12:28 PM

    @John O’Driscoll: Peter Boylan has personally supervised hundreds of thousands of babies being born, and without his expertise, tens of thousands of babies would not be alive. “Pro-abortionist”.

    23
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    Mute mursim
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    Apr 20th 2017, 1:48 PM

    @John O’Driscoll: The Sisters of Charity need to be aborted from this hospital – we are all agreed on that.

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    Mute Eamonn Sheen
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    Apr 20th 2017, 9:54 AM

    Someone sack that twerp already. He is inept as a TD.

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    Mute Lily Martin
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:03 AM

    @Eamonn Sheen: What would be the point? He would only be replaced by another inept TD.

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    Mute Graham Gilligan
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:42 AM

    Disgusted to the core about this and in shock at the decision made by FG to allow these monsters to even keep that land, let alone have anything to do with children. As if FG can be trusted with anything anyway. It’s like 1950′s Ireland all over again.

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    Mute Tom Quinn
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:49 AM
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    Mute Noirin Kavanagh
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    Apr 20th 2017, 11:05 AM

    @Tom Quinn: signed and shared, thanks Tom Quinn

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    Mute Boxer Alice
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:52 AM

    I can’t believe that the so called “Sisters of Charity”, who never showed charity in any shape or form should be allowed own this hospital. They owe that money to the poor women and their babies that were treated so cruelly by them!!. This ridiculous situation could only happen in “Holy Ireland”. It would be a joke if it were not so serious.

    67
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    Mute Bingobango
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:55 AM

    If this were any other group other than a religious order they would have been disbanded and it’s members in prison for their murder and paedophilia. Instead they are granted ownership of the National Maternity Hospital. Not even Spielberg or Stephen King could come up with a story as ludicrous as this one.

    62
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    Mute Celia Ham
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    Apr 20th 2017, 2:11 PM

    @Bingobango: ah yeah try Tarantino.
    people silenced on the bankers ( none in jail ,no credit was given yet we bail them we don’t own our homes like the Icelandics do )why wouldn’t we swallow that one ? Is amazing how the government here quickly convince people that the bs they invent ” is for your own good” . We pay up and shut up.
    So now it is take the hospital with religious order that will not perform surgical procedures needed by patients due to dark ages claptrap excuse ,OR there be no hospital .
    Really ??
    Tell me , is that the ONLY site in the whole island of Ireland they can build ? if it is too much for the extremely rich Catholic Church to be made sell it to government, why can’t you build it elsewhere?
    plenty sites already in the hands of government go build there .

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    Mute Lazlo Saint Pierre
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:20 AM

    It’s fookin backwards we are going, when will we ever learn.

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    Mute LITTLEONE
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:51 AM

    If evidence was ever needed of government are not for the people of Ireland but special interests. Then this highlights it. After everything that has happened in regards to mother’s. Babies in this country and all that has recently come to light. How anyone could not see how wrong and disgraceful this decision was beggars belief. Really have to wonder what the hell is going on in this country?

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    Mute Joe Conlon
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    Apr 20th 2017, 9:53 AM

    In fairness to the nuns, they did run good hospitals. Roll on the abuse…….

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    Mute Paul Fahey
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:00 AM

    @Joe Conlon: but did they? The population were dying younger, expectations were lower, no anti-biotic resistant bugs, a much smaller population which has grown almost 2 million in last 40 years etc etc… we have bought two great myths in Ireland that the church ran world class hospitals and a world class education, but both are false and it is a myth they are perpetuating and we should stop.

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    Mute brian magee
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:08 AM

    @Paul Fahey: you realise that they own and currently run St. Vincents

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    Mute winston smith
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:10 AM

    While they buried hundreds and hundreds in the mother and child homes without leaving any incriminating records!

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    Mute Dave Harris
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:52 AM

    @Joe Conlon: the nuns were in positions they were unqualified and incapable of performing management roles within these hospitals simply because they were nuns. And within the orders the nuns from richer families were given the more prestigious jobs, like matron, while nuns from poor backgrounds were made to work in the laundries and kitchens

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    Mute Paul Fahey
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    Apr 20th 2017, 12:03 PM

    @brian magee: of course and are you suggesting they provide a world class health care?

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    Mute Gulliver Foyle
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    Apr 20th 2017, 12:34 PM

    @Joe Conlon: nursing grew independently and separately from nunnery. Only once nursing became vocational did the nuns see an opportunity to control it, and they did vehemently in Ireland. The vast, vast, majority of nurses who worked in hospitals that people remember were *not* nuns, but empathetic women. The “mother” figure bullying them and treating patients like sinners – yep, they were the nuns.

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    Mute Celia Ham
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    Apr 20th 2017, 1:38 PM

    @Paul Fahey: finally someone got to the real deal of this equation. Thank you Paul Fahey . That is the truth .

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    Mute marg fitzgerald
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    Apr 20th 2017, 12:29 PM

    I don’t understand why the nuns whose numbers must be depleted, don’t donate the site to the state.It would be the Christian thing to do.

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    Mute Celia Ham
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    Apr 20th 2017, 2:22 PM

    @marg fitzgerald: Christian thing ? Ha .
    The chore of all religious orders is same as any other business . Ruthless .
    Is not personal .
    They run a business . They show profit or else . Simple as .

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    Mute Scundered
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:14 AM

    So they’re putting God in charge of this one?

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    Mute Rosa Parks
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:27 AM

    This is sure to come up in a referendum on a United Ireland in NI.

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    Mute Fred Jensen
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:00 AM

    Just build the hospital. It’s whinging like this that has delayed it for years, was supposed to open in 2018, now it’ll be 2021 at the earliest. I couldn’t care less if the nuns are involved.

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    Mute Simon Cunnane
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:11 AM

    @Fred Jensen: Your apathy is exactly why people should take a stand against this.

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    Mute Fred Jensen
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:14 AM

    @Simon Cunnane:

    Don’t be ridiculous and naive. I’d prefer have the building built, soon.

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    Mute Lord Lucan
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:26 AM

    @Fred Jensen: your rather have the state gift a 300 million euro hospital to an organisation that profited from Slave labour than the state own it.. people like you have the country in the hole its in.. sure why not give them a hospital they might pay some compensation to their legion of victims..

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    Mute Fred Jensen
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:41 AM

    @Lord Lucan:

    I’d rather have the physical building built very soon, rather than maintain it at the planning stage.

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    Mute AnnieBelle
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    Apr 20th 2017, 12:17 PM

    @Fred Jensen: Why cant it be built on a site not owned by an evil cult? I agree having had my 1st child in Hollestreet that there is dire need for a new build but why does it have to go on their land?!

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    Mute Neal, not Neil.
    Favourite Neal, not Neil.
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    Apr 20th 2017, 3:30 PM

    @Fred Jensen: Rather it be delayed by another five years than build it in a way that hands our healthcare to some religious order for another 50.

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    Mute Terry Lawlor
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    Apr 20th 2017, 11:36 AM

    Sisters of Cruelty.

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    Mute Fanny Lacarriere
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    Apr 20th 2017, 12:22 PM

    The church own the land? How? Did the church pay for it or seized it long long time ago? Every time an hospital or a school is built in this country looks like it’s on church land!!! As a tax payer I can’t agree whit it.

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    Mute EirWatcher
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    Apr 20th 2017, 2:13 PM

    @Fanny Lacarriere: The Sisters of Charity bought the land when it went up for auction in 1970, with the express intention of creating a new larger (much needed at the time) Dublin hospital. The land had been put up for sale by a bank who had repossessed the land from a private golf club (Elm Park) that had gone into receivership.

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    Mute Marie Gunbay
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    Apr 20th 2017, 1:15 PM

    “When she’s asked about whether or not the congregation would influence medical care provided, she said that ………..”she can’t make a judgement on that,” says it all really such a wealth of lies in these few words ……………like in the past and present and more lies to follow. It really sums it all up in a nut shell and as we know Ministers never tell lies either.

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    Mute Celia Ham
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    Apr 20th 2017, 2:27 PM

    @Marie Gunbay: have you ever met a religious creature or a politician to give a straight answer ?? Nope the answer is yes . She will interfere and as a result asper usual patients will pay the price

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    Mute Marie Gunbay
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    Apr 20th 2017, 2:45 PM

    @Celia Ham: Now wouldn’t that be something amazing to get a straight answer……. especially when the State is in bed with the church. !!!!!

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    Mute Suzie Sunshine
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:08 AM

    So if we don’t go along with this then what is the other options?

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    Mute Tony Daly
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:17 AM

    @Suzie Sunshine: acquire the site from the Sisters of Charity and pay the open market price for the site. Forget about what the order owes the State. Just pay them off and let them run the rest of St Vincent’s until they are bought out.

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    Mute OU812
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:30 AM

    @Tony Daly: Don’t pay them. Just take it in part payment.

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    Mute Suzie Sunshine
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    Apr 20th 2017, 10:47 AM

    @Tony Daly: that seems a fair option. .

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    Mute Rory J Leonard
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    Apr 20th 2017, 11:09 AM

    @Tony Daly:

    Forget nothing!
    If the shoe was on the other foot, the SOC would chase a cr to the high heavens for the debt, plus interest.
    So that €3 m redress comp o/s bal needs to be pursued now with alacrity tog with comp int since Ml. Woods cut the deal with the RO’s on behalf of the state all those years ago.
    Only then should your excellent suggestion of a freehold land pur at St Vin be pondered for new NMH.
    Cap Ex of €300 m by the state on NMH bld costs needs to be on a state owned site, to avoid future trouble.

    The CC needs to step back on this one, to demo its bona fides on respect for all other religions practiced in Irl and to give freedom to current and future governments to legislate in the interests of all its citizens, without favouring any particular religious ethos.

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    Mute Patrick Swan
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    Apr 20th 2017, 2:21 PM

    why forget what they owe? why not simply deduct it?

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    Mute garry murphy
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    Apr 20th 2017, 11:06 AM

    I give up whats the point. Its like fair city sh#t actors and stories that no one would believe.
    time for this bunch to move on.

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    Mute Dazz
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    Apr 20th 2017, 1:36 PM

    Why on Earth would you let a group of people who get their medical advice from an iron-age story book anywhere near the management of a modern hospital?

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    Mute Rui Firmino
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    Apr 20th 2017, 2:26 PM

    Ireland just celebrated 100 years of freedom from British rule. It’s about time we get rid of the other oppressors too. They have poisoned this country for long enough.

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    Mute Emer Caffrey
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    Apr 20th 2017, 2:00 PM

    if this goes ahead, the government can go

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    Mute Celia Ham
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    Apr 20th 2017, 2:34 PM

    @Emer Caffrey: good.

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    Mute Stephen Kelly
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    Apr 20th 2017, 2:01 PM

    What if this contract was gifted to Blackrock Hospital, I imagine that there would be serious questions asked. This is about gifting 300m to in-rich the friends of FG, the only way to flush this out is to follow the money and see who was / is to profit from this secret deal.

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    Mute Paul Lane
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    Apr 20th 2017, 3:09 PM

    Golden Share my ARSH, there is no such thing in existence under Irish company law legislation and Harris is only talking about a ‘good faith’ agreement which meant nothing when it was applied to Aer Lingus and the Minister is either ill-informed or lying to the people of Ireland.

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    Mute Eugene Comaskey
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    Apr 20th 2017, 11:23 AM

    This decision is hardly final, there is still time to bully them on this just as the bullies done on The Water. Can the rent a mob not get out there onto the streets and cause chaos again, this is a far more important issue than Water.

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    Mute LITTLEONE
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    Apr 20th 2017, 11:33 AM

    @Eugene Comaskey: are you saying people that are appalled at this because of what’s happened in regards to religious orders and abuse . Mother and baby homes are nothing more than bullies if they don’t agree with this decision. Wow that’s some outlook you have..

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    Mute Seamus Mc Meel
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    Apr 20th 2017, 11:42 AM

    @Eugene Comaskey: So we can only protest one thing at atime,or do you have a problem with the water protesters?

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    Mute whitecross
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    Apr 20th 2017, 7:13 PM

    @Eugene Comaskey: Why dont you organize a protest ? Only for the water protesters out water would be sold of to some blueshit crony .You keep moaning away there let some else fight your battle for you ,

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    Mute Tom Collins
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    Apr 20th 2017, 12:32 PM

    Watching Simon Harris lately is like watching The Shinning, slowly becoming a little demented in the face. Suppose that job would turn anyone.

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    Mute Stephen Maher
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    Apr 20th 2017, 12:10 PM

    Whats stopping them from selling it hospital to other companies once finished?

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    Mute Phil Keenan
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    Apr 20th 2017, 12:18 PM

    Harris you muppet

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    Mute Zx5vZulB
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    Apr 20th 2017, 11:00 AM

    When there was no one else offering to teach your children, the brothers were there. When no one else to nurse your mother, the sisters were there. Regardless of their god nonsense, they deserve their place in irish schools and hospitals as they have a long tradition of providing these aervices

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    Mute Noirin Kavanagh
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    Apr 20th 2017, 11:09 AM

    @Zx5vZulB: really? How do you know we couldn’t have educated ourselves without their involvement? Were there no teachers in the country before independence? Yes, they did provide education and health care, but the price they exacted was in financial benefits from the state, the faith people placed in them leaving them money and land in their wills and more than any other benefit, they had power and influence over the people from childhood through adulthood.

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    Mute LITTLEONE
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    Apr 20th 2017, 11:35 AM

    @Zx5vZulB: sure abuse, beatings , throwing babies into sewers was part and parcel too. Should we just ignore that part?????

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    Mute Neal, not Neil.
    Favourite Neal, not Neil.
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    Apr 20th 2017, 1:17 PM

    @Zx5vZulB: The fact that they helped tun our schools and hospitals in the past does not born we have to be enslaved to them in perpetuity. Besides, they were well paid for their “services” including laundry.

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    Mute Neal, not Neil.
    Favourite Neal, not Neil.
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    Apr 20th 2017, 1:18 PM

    @Neal, not Neil.: *does not mean

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    Mute Roibeard O Beachain
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    Apr 20th 2017, 1:38 PM

    @gar:

    Congrats to you for the stupidist comment of the day!

    Aside from the fact that you have blatantly glossed over the abuses which were allowed to occur ( over many years ) within state and healthcare institutions run by religious orders they have no automatic entitlement to run such services in this day and age. Religion should no more mix with healthcare than it should with state.

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    Mute Zx5vZulB
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    Apr 20th 2017, 1:48 PM

    @Noirin Kavanagh: i dont know if we could have educated ourselves without church support but then i dont have enough time or energy to explore hypotheticals when there is so much reality to digest. Reality such as the fact that the church essentially WAS the civil service in this country for decades, their abuse of power and disregard for individuals rights was supported by the state and still is today. We cant airbrush our own timidity and point our fingers at the church as if they are some alien life form. They are of us, we made them, we use their services, they are inextricably linked with providing these services. We need to take stock of who we are and where we come from, before pointimg fingers

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    Mute Paul Lane
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    Apr 20th 2017, 3:13 PM

    @Zx5vZulB: A long history of child abuse including rape, abduction and trafficking; one part of them committed the abuse and the other part knew about it and covered it up. These people are vermin

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    Mute Zx5vZulB
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    Apr 20th 2017, 4:20 PM

    @Paul Lane: These people are not from some other planet, they are our brothers and sisters. I know they believe in an alien God but that does make them aliens. It wasn’t just religious orders who abused children, you seem to completely overlook the fact that women are only recognised as equals in the past 40 years in this country, and children effectively did not have rights of any kind until relatively recently. We are not happy with religious orders now running the show, fair enough – but lets not pretend they are some mystical other-worldly form – priests and sisters took their attitudes & behaviour from society at the time- and society effectively said “Only the strongest will survive”. Its not religion you should rail against, its your own grandparents and ancestors who allowed & condoned that behaviour.

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    Mute Noirin Kavanagh
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    Apr 21st 2017, 2:57 PM

    @Zx5vZulB: i agree with some of your points there, but not your conclusion. Lets consider where we came from: an uneducated, impoverished state with a tradition of allegiance to Rome. And the Church, a wealthy, powerful and politically experienced institution with all the means to exploit vulnerability in order to build its power base of loyal followers. Would you consider that an even playing field?

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    Mute Julz
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    Apr 20th 2017, 1:55 PM

    Funny how, every time a Johnathon Sugarman report comes out, something big comes out straight after. If I remember correctly, last time it was Bertie returning to politics.
    We are all so easily distracted. And for the record, I don’t agree with what their proposing for this hospital.

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    Mute June Rose-Sommer
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    Apr 20th 2017, 5:07 PM

    Make sure they don’t have any ‘septic’ tanks on the premises!!! And make sure there are no unmarried mothers going there to have their babies!! Risky!!

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    Mute ryan3939
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    Apr 20th 2017, 3:15 PM

    what a load of C**p is posted on this
    I dont care who own the land or runs it as long as it get built
    The same people that are giving out here are the same people who will be giving out when the state has to look for another site, pay million for the site, and the hospital will be delayed for years
    people need to grow up.

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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Apr 20th 2017, 3:59 PM

    This is the same Dr Peter Boylan who emphatically supported Dr Michael Neary continuing his work in Our Lady Of Lourdes, Drogheda.

    I don’t think anybody should pay attention to anything this man says.

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    Mute lavbeer
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    Apr 20th 2017, 5:32 PM

    @Tom Burke: misquoting the man Tom.

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    Mute Kevin Slater
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    Apr 20th 2017, 3:39 PM

    Henry VIII had it right. Take their land and they have no power. Ultimately the RCC is only interested in power. Farmers sons in FF, FG and the church. Vultures the lot of them.
    We truly were better off British. At least we were ruled by sane people not the deluded uneducated spawn of catholic nutjobs

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    Mute Aine O Connor
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    Apr 20th 2017, 1:36 PM

    Dr Peter Boylan is a board member of the NMH who agreed this deal. Why is he only speaking up now .

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    Mute lavbeer
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    Apr 20th 2017, 3:21 PM

    @Aine O Connor: he just recently retired I think so maybe the deal was clinched after he went? But even more strange that the current master is happy. And they are related by marriage.

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    Mute Banna2
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    Apr 20th 2017, 8:23 PM

    Why can’t the sisters sell the land to the state for €1? Sorted.

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    Mute JoseMacPhisto
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    Apr 20th 2017, 4:07 PM

    So you now have to power to tell the nuns yourself.

    Either post a message on their page here or send them a message via your account. They appear to be reading the messages sent to them.

    https://www.facebook.com/rscvocations/

    No need to be nasty or uncouth, but these people do need to get the message.

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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Apr 20th 2017, 4:04 PM

    ‘It is my firm conclusion that Dr Neary should continue to work in Our Lady of Lourdes…….”.
    Dr Peter Boylan

    Says enough about this man.

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    Mute lavbeer
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    Apr 20th 2017, 5:16 PM

    @Tom Burke: where did you see that as a matter of interest?

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    Mute Lisa Clarke
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    Apr 21st 2017, 10:00 PM

    Having a hospital….or an educational institution controlled by a religious organisation, in this day and age! Is asking for deconstruction of society. Religion, should be personal. Politics, education and healthcare should be secular, end off. Still cann

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    Mute Chris Finn
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    Apr 23rd 2017, 9:19 PM

    These sisters engaged in rape murder and physical abuse of children and mothers.

    Simon Harris engaged them as a large stakeholder in a maternity hospital.

    Simon Harris is an animal who should be put in jail. He is slimy. He lies. Wtf is he thinking here? Wtaf is he thinking here. What an absolute pig. If I was in his family I’d have nothing to do with him.

    People may say ah he wasn’t involved. If I had a paedophile ring with cash (that I owed people) and I went in with him to set the hospital up and he said yes there would be war and he would be complicit.

    This man is a failure and doesn’t belong fired on the dole. He belongs in jail.

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    Mute Gus Dennis
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    Apr 20th 2017, 2:59 PM

    The state are not covering themselves in glory in providing a new children’s hospital to replace the one John Charles Mcquade built in 1956 costing approximately £1,000,000, monies provided by the Archdiocese of Dublin.

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    Mute Noirin Kavanagh
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    Apr 21st 2017, 3:03 PM

    @Gus Dennis: monies provided by the people of the archdiocese of Dublin then…

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