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THE TICKET RESALE website Seatwave has hit back against proposed legislation that would make it illegal to resell tickets for a profit of more than 10%.
It will ensure that those looking to sell tickets for exorbitant prices will have the profits from those sales eradicated by fines. Breaches of the 10% resale limit will result in fines of up to €5,000.
The Bill, which is not being opposed by government, has been put forward by Sinn Féin TD Maurice Quinlivan.
More than 24 interested parties made submissions to the public consultation, which was undertaken in response to public concern at the resale of tickets at a price often well in excess of their face value.
Two of these submissions were from Seatwave and Ticketmaster Ireland.
Sold-out gigs
Seatwave, which was acquired by Ticketmaster in November 2014, allows fans who missed out on sold-out gigs to purchase official tickets.
It allows fans to sell their tickets, even within minutes of purchase, and charges a 10% “success fee” on sales. It also allows customers set their own selling price.
The company came in for criticism earlier this year when U2 tickets, which sold out within minutes on Ticketmaster, popped up on Seatwave for thousands of euro.
With cases like the U2 concert becoming more common, the public consultation on the resale of tickets for entertainment and sporting events was launched.
In its submission, Seatwave stated that it strongly believes the introduction of legislation to regulate the ticket resale market “will be both ineffective and will, in fact, be detrimental to Irish fans”.
“In Ireland, the ticket resale market used to take place underground or offshore – out of reach of any consumer protection,” stated the submission.
The company cites a number of other countries that have introduced legislation to the same effect.
Seatwave said when Belgium implemented legislation in 2013 that strictly prohibited fans from reselling tickets at a higher price than the original sale value, the company closed its site.
“There is often rhetoric in the media that the resale market is broken, but this is not the case. The resale market is an example of an efficient market with ticket prices clearing at their market level. Event organisers can look to the resale market to give them an indication of how they should be pricing their tickets,” said Seatwave.
‘Media frenzy’
Ticketmaster stated in its submission that there had been a “media frenzy” around ticket resales.
The coverage of the increase in ticket sale prices on resale sites “only served to confuse the public and sensationalise the issue”, according to Ticketmaster.
Ticketmaster Ireland denied that it has ever placed tickets directly onto the resale market, adding that there is “no evidence to support the view that any of our clients are placing tickets directly onto the resale market”.
Our data shows that less than 1% of the tickets that Ticketmaster Ireland sells on behalf of its clients are subsequently resold – a vastly different story to what is told in the Irish press.
Bodies such as the Football Association of Ireland (FAI), Done Deal, the GAA, Toutless, and a number of TDs also made submissions, with many of them in favour of new legalisation.
Aiken Promotions
One of Ireland’s top promoters, Peter Aiken made the following submission:
The FAI said it believed “it would be helpful for legislation to be introduced in this area in order to combat the sale of tickets by persons who purchase tickets with no intention of ever attending the event but who resell the tickets at a significant profit”.
Meanwhile, the GAA said ticket touting should be classified as a criminal activity.
It said the current legislation “in no way reflects the technological developments of recent decades”.
It does not act as an incentive for the civil authorities to challenge the on-street touting at our fixtures or extortionate pricing on on-line sites. Any change to the current legislation would help protect consumers, our members and the organisation.
While many of the sporting bodies seemed to be in favour of the law change, the Irish Rugby Football Union (IRFU) said it would reserve its position on the proposal of new legislation.
Quinlivan called for cross-party support for his Bill stating that it will benefit event-goers and organisers alike.
“Ticket touting has escalated in recent years. With advances in technology, the practice has grown from traditional touts selling counterfeit, cancelled or extortionately priced tickets outside venues, to online sites, in the grey of regulation,” he said.
This is not the first Bill to be proposed to deal with the overpricing of tickets.
A similar Bill was proposed by Fine Gael TD Noel Rock and Fianna Fáil’s Stephen Donnelly some months ago.
While Sinn Féin’s Bill was selected by a lottery to be allowed to proceed – in a rare event for government it has decided to support a Bill from another party, despite having its own legislation in the works.
It’s understood questions are now being raised within the Fine Gael party as to why Noel Rock’s proposal is being sidelined.
Due to government supporting the Sinn Féin Bill, it’s believed the issue is likely to be raised at tomorrow’s parliamentary party meeting.
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Best news. No more overpriced tickets. Hopefully the government pushes the rule through as quickly as possible.
This is great news.
A simple solution would be to link all tickets purchased to a name, via a form of identification (drivers license, passport etc.). If you then can’t make the gig or event, you inform the original seller, Ticketmaster in this case, who purchase the ticket back off you, less your booking fee, and resell the ticket at face value.
@David:
That’s a very smart idea
@Nick Allen: I have my moments.
@David: What happens when you want to buy tickets for your niece?
@Paraic McDonagh: agree Paraic heard this link ticket to ID of person who bought the ticket before but every year I buy tickets for other people including family and friends as gifts.
Glastonbury Festival does something similar – your photo is printed on the ticket
Again, put her name on the ticket.
@David: and what if said niece or daughter doesn’t have a passport or driving license?
@David: tough crowd today. Great to see ideas being challenged so the best solution is reached.
@David: yep. This is how it’s done for Glastonbury. Photo is on the ticket too, can’t make it, there’s a resale portal.
@David: I’m just being the devil’s advocate. I proposed the same thing on a previous article about touting and it was quickly pointed out that there are issues with ID linking. For example if I wanted to gift my niece 2 tickets so she could bring a friend of her choice, there would have to be loopholes, which would allow the touts a chink. The main issue though is that it’s the ticket sellers themselves that are the biggest touts, so they are not going to voluntarily implement such a system. So I welcome this legislation.
@TonyD2469: most people of concert going age would, or at least should, have some form of identification. If you’re under 16 you’re not supposed to be unsupervised at a gig.
@Paraic McDonagh: I appreciate that, I made my comment from the jacks, aka my quiet time. Opens up a bit of a debate if nothing else. May stop underage kids gaining access to events unsupervised. Two birds, one stone.
@David: I agree, I think the technology already exists to limit the ability of touts. But greater regulation is needed, because Ticketmaster does not care enough about the consumer. It also has a monopoly, which should be countered.
@David: my 17 year old daughter doesn’t have a passport and I am sure she is not the only one without a valid form of ID and for the proposal to link tickets to ID requires everyone who wants to go to a gig have a valid form of ID. I just don’t see how it can work.
@TonyD2469:
At 17, she really should have some sort of official ID. A passport is the simplest & most acceptable at that age. My 6 year old hasn’t travelled abroad in a couple of years but we still keep the passport active for official ID use.
@TonyD2469: at 17 she should have a passport, or driving licence, and can get one if she wishes to. It’s a simple fix, no id, no entry. Every night club in the country operates this policy. Most gigs are over 18, unless accompanied by a guardian anyway… this would help enforce that.
I was at the Iron Maiden concert at the point last Saturday night,
They had a ticketless system where you brought your confirmation email and your payment card that you used to purchase the tickets with you,
Your card was swiped at the door to confirm your identity,
100% success to eliminate touting,
Great gig by the way.
@Niall Power: as I asked above what if the ticket is a gift?
@TonyD2469: you need the credit or debit card that purchased the ticket with you,
Two of the teenagers in our party had parents cards with them to gain access,
It’s a little inconvenient but it works 100%
@Niall Power: having to carryl someone elses credit card is problematic. Thats a bad policy
@Niall Power: So if I buy my 16 year old daughter or neice tickets for Justin Beiber I have to give them my credit card to bring along to the gig?
@TonyD2469: I’m beginning to think you’re a tout Tony…
@David: All legislation can be criticized some way – what about 40km speed limit if I can do faster on my bike – do I get a ticket? Doesn’t mean speed limit is bad.
@cortisola: you should, you’re breaking the speed limit
@TonyD2469: IT should work the same way as buying flights for someone as a gift, They can only use them in both cases.
Ticketmaster- the lady doth protest too much methinks.
This makes perfect sense. Ticketmaster and seatwave is a conflict of interest
Ticketmaster should never have been allowed to buy Seatwave as huge conflict and guarantee they pass tix directly through system for higher price and profit……ID system is the way to go…. @lavbeer:
Delighted to hear this.
Great News , now please get on with it. Good work all
I hope ticketmaster are fined as well. They’re criminal in their activity. They should have their licence revoked for ruling consumers off.
@6ljJQRRU:
what current law did they break? Probably took advantage off a lack of law, but they didn’t break any law as far as i can tell.
Fair play to Peter Aiken promotions in supporting this.
@Johnny O’Connor: Considering he’s fairly involved with Ticketmaster, I’d say his support of it is for publicity reasons only.
It’s impossible to get a ticket for a major event or artist(s) without using Ticketmaster.
MCD staying quiet, hmmm
Company who resell tickets for extortionate profits are against proposed legislation to make said activity illegal, there’s a shock. Ticketmaster/seatwave are s#um, delighted with this piece of legislation and hope it pushes forward.
#### them
It’s about time something was done about this. I was charged €150 each by Viagogo for tickets to Bruno Mars with a face value of €92 plus €40 service charge per ticket that had the service charge as €6.85 on them. They’re nothing but touts.
@Cindy Crawford: By the way i went through the Ticketmaster website & was diverted to Viagogo.
Reading the Ticketmaster submission (staunchly opposed to new legislation and regulation) it’s clear where their interests lie. Also they claim less than 1% of tickets were resold overall which is misleading. Not the case for high demand events. They should be forced to give examples e.g. U2
No more gouging for “resale” touts? Hah, good enough for them! They’ve a handy little scam going and its about time their overcharging wings were clipped!
At point of sale it will control cost but how do you police it supply and demand will always suit the kerbside touts no control unless fines are massive
At least now the touts selling tickets outside the 3 arena will have a legitimate business!
10% profit?
Or will they bother?
Like everything else we “nearly” get it right.
Why not just make it illegal to sell any ticket for anything above its face value and stop ticket profiteering altogether.
Finally something is moving. But would it be so hard to put a name on the tickets and apply name-change procedures similar to the plane ticket ones?
Ticketmaster should be Investigated for unfair competition practice
Call me cynical , but I can’t accept that any business which can legally transfer its products to a sister company and sell it for 10 times its original price, will not, in some form , take advantage of this .
Also, maybe a tad patronising there Ticketmaster – anybody there in the public confused about ticket touting ?
This needs to happen ,
Tickets have become near impossible to buy for gigs the last few years .
Now let’s do the same with nama properties
In other news, Irish people very unhappy at rainy forecast for the weekend……….obviously
Brilliant, This is badly needed. Well done Sin Feinn
First world problems or what? This is not what we need government for, add this to standing in the dail for prayer, blasphemy laws, helmets for cyclists etc. Here’s a simple solution: don’t want to spend loads of money to see some poxy band/team/event? Don’t.
@Sean O’Keefe: Yes we do need the government for this matter. People are being ripped off by the companies selling tickets & they won’t stop until they are forced to. This is a problem affecting the public which the government represent. You stay at home in your poxy house if you want to.
@Seán O’Keeffe: I think it’s more about Ticketmaster deliberately reserving tickets to sell on seatwave for a fortune and up their overall profits. If they weren’t doing this, I would be surprised.
Hurray!
Ahhh god love them ! Sad face! Not!!!
Both companies are See you next Tuesday’s
This is really funny. The problem with ticket touting or overpriced tickets can be solved fairly quickly without government involved.
Don’t be stupid and don’t buy them.
It would be very interesting to only sell event tickets via an open auction, with every ticket class sold at the final bid price
Great News , about time something was done to stop this. Good work all
Hmm sure let’s listen to the company who profit off ticket resales.
have your say