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Probably won't be needing these ballot boxes just yet. Sasko Lazarov/Photocall Ireland

Labour sticks to Government line on EU treaty referendum

A spokesperson for the party said the Government was taking on board the advice of the Attorney General.

DESPITE CALLS FROM one of its backbenchers to allow the public to vote on the formal approval of the new European intergovernmental treaty, Labour is sticking to the Government line that a referendum will only be held if required by law.

A spokesperson for the party told TheJournal.ie that the Government will take on board the advice of the Attorney General.

There is no separate line from Labour on the matter.

Last week, backbencher Aodhán Ó Riordáin endorsed the demands for a referendum on the fiscal treaty, which was agreed by eurozone leaders on Monday.

“Whatever comes out of these discussions, and whatever text we get…I think it needs to go to the people,” he said.

The final text of the treaty has a clause which says the ‘debt brake’ does not need to be written into the constitution, making a referendum less likely.

Both Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin have called for a public vote on the matter, regardless of the advice that the Attorney General gives after deliberating the matter.

Fianna Fáil TD Timmy Dooley welcomed the comments from O’Riordáin and called on the Government not to deny the Irish people a say on the issue.

Dismissing Minister Leo Varadkar’s statement that referendums are not “very democratic”, Dooley said that when people are engaged with on “important issues” then they will listen.

The Taoiseach has said he does not fear a referendum on this Treaty, if that is the case then he should announce the Government’s intention to hold one.”

More: Final text of Fiscal Compact deal may allow Ireland to avoid referendum>

More on the EU Treaty>

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36 Comments
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    Mute Spanner
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    Nov 1st 2023, 11:08 AM

    Perhaps we could help ourselves by better planning and maintenance of existing drainage systems

    303
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    Mute Luka Roche
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    Nov 1st 2023, 1:10 PM

    @Spanner: don’t be talking sense, Eamon loves blaming Rural Ireland for towns and cities being flooded.

    97
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    Mute GVR
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    Nov 1st 2023, 11:08 AM

    It’s coz everyone has paved their gardens for driveways

    135
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    Mute David Jordan
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    Nov 1st 2023, 12:29 PM

    @GVR: That is true but it puts the cart before the horse to an extent. Yes, the building boom in the Celtic Tiger era contributed to flooding, large shopping centre car parks, housing estates and factories built with hectares of impervious roof, tarmac and concrete, but these should have been built with detention and retention basin by developers and councils. Detention and retention basins are temporary water storage areas that retain water and slowly discharge to rivers, lower the pulse of flood water.

    However, during the building boom, not build enough of these basins were built and as a result, rain poured directly into rivers. This was a reason behind the 2000, 2002, twice in 2005, and 2011 Tolka River floods (previous flooding events were rarer, 1880, 1954, 1965, 1986).

    When watching the 2002 Tolka flood an elderly woman told me the bridge was washed away along with the statue of the Virgin Mary in 1954, that was a different level. Old Pathé film about floods in Dublin:

    https://youtu.be/Jbb4ibQuZkk?t=50

    68
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    Mute F Fitzgerald
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    Nov 1st 2023, 3:28 PM

    Yes, I remember the Tolka flooding and before that I remember my parents going out to stack sandbags against the bridges of the Dodder, along with plenty of other neighbours who didn’t even live near the banks of the Dodder. They all went out and did this when it started to rain heavily. The same way that they helped each other to push-start a car in winter. It was clear to people then what could be done before houses were swamped. It’s so frustrating waiting for councils to put in a plan after ground floors have already been flooded out once. What shocked me was all those small businesses in Newry that can’t get flood insurance now. Maybe years ago it was cheaper to rebuild than put in storm overflow ponds, but now it costs so much after the damage is done.

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    Mute Colm Molloy
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    Nov 1st 2023, 5:38 PM

    @David Jordan: This is a most pertinent comment .
    I agree

    8
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    Mute eoin fitzpatrick
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    Nov 1st 2023, 11:38 AM

    People on here seem to think if you took some leaves out of a few drains there would be no issues. Others calling for the dredging of every bit of life and canalisation of our rivers. Better land management seems to be a good long term solution but it’ll be viewed as anti rural university nonsense.
    Scientists have predicted we’ll be getting much wetter in the coming years so we should probably get some kind of plan in place.

    137
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    Mute Ollie Fitzpatrick
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    Nov 1st 2023, 11:51 AM

    @eoin fitzpatrick: Plans like Eamonn Ryan looking for 1200 houses to be built in Dublin Port……… I am at a loss to see forward planning there!!

    105
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    Mute eoin fitzpatrick
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    Nov 1st 2023, 11:56 AM

    @Ollie Fitzpatrick: no idea what eamon’s plans are for housing, didn’t realise that was part of his remit

    44
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    Mute Ollie Fitzpatrick
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    Nov 1st 2023, 12:17 PM

    @eoin fitzpatrick: He may not be Minister of Housing but that doesn’t stop spouting manure about housing issues or anything else for that matter.
    You know exactly what I am talking about unless you were isolated in a dark cave with no access to media matters. Google it and pass comment then!!

    41
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    Mute eoin fitzpatrick
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    Nov 1st 2023, 12:32 PM

    @Ollie Fitzpatrick: I was passing comment on flooding and what we can do about it, not some housing plan Eamon Ryan came up with

    35
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    Mute Ollie Fitzpatrick
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    Nov 1st 2023, 1:14 PM

    @eoin fitzpatrick: Not building houses in an area that’s could be affected
    by flooding with rising sea levels (like Dublin Port) would be a prudent decision for a start. But this current government don’t do prudency!
    As regards flooding in general, government, planners, local authorities and developers have an awful lot of responsibility to accept.

    38
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    Mute P.J. Nolan
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    Nov 1st 2023, 4:51 PM

    @Ollie Fitzpatrick:
    In fairness Ollie if the next government, whoever they are, can get their hands on prime Dublin land like the port do you think they wouldn’t build on it???

    9
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    Mute Chris O'Brien
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    Nov 1st 2023, 12:13 PM

    Loling at the idea that we Irish could ever competently manage any huge problem.

    In that respect we’re like the Yanks with their guns: a permanent failure.

    Let me guess, the same culture that can’t build anything on time or on budget can magically undertake a nationwide rethink of every waterway near a house?

    And planning permission will suddenly be managed competently, on a national level, minus any corruption?

    Property owners will suddenly change a century of selfish behaviour for the benefit of their neighbours?

    Government will invest properly for decades?

    This is magical thinking at its most obscene.

    The best we can do is elect the worst people, for selfish reasons, then play dumb when it’s a disaster. And of course, fall back on conspiracy theories to avoid feeling any guilt for our behaviour.

    80
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    Mute John Sleator
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    Nov 1st 2023, 12:13 PM

    Nature knows what to do,humans are only an interference.
    When we’re gone earth will recover.

    67
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    Mute Mick Hanna
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    Nov 1st 2023, 12:40 PM

    @John Sleator: The great George Carlin once said. The Earth is going nowhere.. “We are, so pack your $#!t folk’s!!!

    38
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    Mute M G
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    Nov 1st 2023, 1:49 PM

    Just dredge all the rivers and make them deeper, wider like they did years ago with the diggers on the barges over the last 30 years they have slowly closed up ,better maintenance on road drainage and farm land will help massively .Harbour in my town used to be nearly 100ft now it’s only about 50 and river up too it was 45ft now its 20max over the years its got shallower and narrowed.

    36
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    Mute F Fitzgerald
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    Nov 1st 2023, 3:56 PM

    @M G: Google pros and cons of dredging. Historically there were fewer storms and a lot more natural soakage. The coming storms are pouring off concrete and areas without forests straight into wide rivers that have been straightened.
    These flow too fast to prevent floods. All that dredging could do is to drain the floodwaters off quicker afterwards. Pumping helps.

    Plus when you speed up a river flow so drastically, you also take away the gravel & roots that held the channel in shape. The strength of that fast flood erodes the banks, the piers of bridges, and undermines them.

    The best way is slowing the flow, adding soakage to stall the floods so they don’t wash everything away before them.

    38
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    Mute David
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    Nov 1st 2023, 1:52 PM

    Directly after the state had a meeting (citizens assembly) on the environment, there was a conclusion that lights were harmful to the overall biodiversity of our beautiful island.

    What was the direct response from government (and I mean direct), erect gawdy l.e.d. advertisements on our roads!!!

    These people are not democrats, they don’t respect your vote, nor your opinion!

    37
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    Mute Colm Molloy
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    Nov 1st 2023, 12:09 PM

    Water just flowing off every surface in a town or city straight into the next available waterway is bad planning, soakage where water falls would help a lot in many ways, like building water table reservoirs.
    On a personal level, water falling on a single house site could soak more and disperse less to be dealt with elsewhere I think

    30
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    Mute TC Murphy
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    Nov 1st 2023, 12:19 PM

    More government financial support should be made available to golf club drainage schemes. My club has been closed for two weeks due to flooding. Shameful.

    24
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    Mute eoin fitzpatrick
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    Nov 1st 2023, 12:23 PM

    @TC Murphy: 2 weeks no golf, the horror. CPO all golf courses and turn them into natural forest, I’d vote for that.

    98
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    Mute P.J. Nolan
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    Nov 1st 2023, 4:53 PM

    @TC Murphy:
    You had two options,
    Go fishing on the golf course or go fishing on the journal comments section……..

    16
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    Mute Jon Jon
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    Nov 2nd 2023, 1:43 AM

    @TC Murphy: ring big Phil

    2
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    Mute Mick Hanna
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    Nov 1st 2023, 12:34 PM

    Look, how many times? You ALL Know its coming. How about the whole of community from the affected towns working together for Prevention in the Summer months Well ahead of the storms. Allow water to take a different safer course to avoid these floods.
    Nature will only control you, if you constantly allow it.

    20
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    Mute Gearoid O'Ceilleachair
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    Nov 1st 2023, 1:49 PM

    The scientific method cheerleaders here use ‘Nature’ the same way the old denominational Christians used ‘God’.

    Most of you are victims of the modelling subculture and live in a type of bubble surrounded by doom and gloom as though separate from the Earth itself. We live in Eternity, and individuals are meant to appreciate as much as possible about our surroundings and all the things that make life possible. The motions of the Earth in a Sun-centred system are connected to the Earth’s sciences of climate geology and biology, yet modellers can’t link one rotation of the planet with one 24-hour day/night cycle.

    11
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    Mute Chutes
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    Nov 1st 2023, 4:49 PM

    @Gearoid O’Ceilleachair: What do you recall of the eternity in which you have lived?

    8
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    Mute Colm Molloy
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    Nov 1st 2023, 5:36 PM

    @Chutes: How long have you got son ?

    6
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    Mute Sun Rise
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    Nov 1st 2023, 7:22 PM

    There areca surprising number of experts on the subject posting comments.

    3
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    Mute Emmet Murphy
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    Nov 1st 2023, 10:24 PM

    A big pipe, under the river bed and risers for overflow. In all major rivers, directed towards coast and released on to slipway into sea or too a reservoir. Let gravity do the rest, it can work and should be considered.

    3
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    Mute C
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    Nov 5th 2023, 3:20 PM

    Walk any roadside and see the amount of plastic bottles and drinks cans – these work their way into rivers and streams. Walk any beach along the high tide mark and you’ll see all the waste washed up. We have people throwing this stuff into nature and others that just walk past it with indifference.

    So we obviously have a large cohort of people that don’t recognise the importance or necessity of living in a clean environment. Broaden that little example across broader environmental and societal issues and it’s no surprise we are where we are.

    There is no excuse in this day and age.

    I remember watching the Olympic marathon in Japan, some of the runners launched their used water bottles as far away as possible, flinging them into the canals and so in, even though bins were put out alongside them, pure ignorance, selfishness really.

    3
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