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The FF letters in the logo of the Defence Forces stem from the words 'Fianna Fáil', meaning 'Soldiers of Ireland'. Wikimedia Commons

No plans to remove 'Fianna Fáil' from anthem or Defence Forces logo, says govt

Michael Noonan says the Irish translation of the Soldier’s Song was made before Éamon de Valera founded his political party.

TWO SENIOR MEMBERS of the cabinet have ruled out removing the words ‘Fianna Fáil’ from Amhrán na bhFiann, or the letters FF from the logo of the Defences Forces.

Michael Noonan has said the most common Irish translation of The Soldier’s Song – which was originally written in English – was made before the founding of the political party of the same name.

He was responding to calls from independent TD Maureen O’Sullivan who had asked for his views on whether the phrase ‘Sinne Fianna Fáil’ should be re-translated so that it might not reflect the political party of the same name.

Noonan said academic studies pointed out that the translation most commonly used – made by Liam Ó Rinn, who later became the Oireachtas’ chief translator – was made as early as 1917, and was notably published in 1923.

His translation of ‘soldiers are we’ as ‘Sinne Fianna Fáil’ was a legitimate one because before the signature of the Anglo-Irish Treaty in 1921, the Volunteers had identified themselves as the descendants of Fionn Mac Cumhaill’s Fianna tribe of warriors.

Inis Fáil, meanwhile, was believed to be an old or poetic name for Ireland – meaning ‘Fianna Fáil’ was a sound translation for the concept of ‘Soldiers of Ireland’.

It was not until 1926, Noonan pointed out, that Éamon de Valera founded a political party of the same name. Peadar Kearney’s original lyrics for The Soldier’s Song were written in 1907.

Deffence FForces

The minister’s insistence follows moves by Taoiseach Enda Kenny to rule out changing the logo of the Irish Defence Forces, in order to remove the ‘FF’ letters, which had been inherited from the Free State’s National Army.

Kenny had been asked to consider setting up an ‘independent commission’ by Fine Gael backbencher Derek Keating, which would have been tasked with considering both the adoption of a new national anthem, and the review of symbols worn by national services like Gardaí and the military.

The commission would have been tasked with considering new emblems for the Gardaí, Defence Forces, Fire Service, Civil Defence and other offices of state.

In response to a parliamentary question, however, Kenny said there were “no plans” to appoint any such commission.

When the Irish Free State purchased the copyright of the song – for £1200 in 1934 – it only purchased the original English words written by Kearney, and the music written by Kearney and Patrick Heeney.

Because no legislation has since been enacted to formally declare a national anthem, or to standardise its lyrics, there is no formal Irish language version of the song – with Liam Ó Rinn’s 1917 version merely being the most commonly-known version.

The words ‘Sinne laochra fáil’ are occasionally substituted into the first line in order to avoid reference to the political party.

Though the copyright on the anthem expires at the end of 2012 – 70 years after Kearney’s death – the government does not plan to take any action, believing the original purpose of buying the anthem (in order to ensure its free use) would remain unchanged.

The matter of the national anthem had been occasionally discussed during last year’s presidential election, with some candidates expressing their interest in having it replaced.

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28 Comments
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    Mute Aishling Keogh
    Favourite Aishling Keogh
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    Aug 23rd 2012, 6:26 PM

    RIP,another family’s heartbreak this evening :(

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    Mute Martina Ní Wynner
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    Aug 23rd 2012, 6:06 PM

    RIP

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    Mute Keith Moore
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    Aug 23rd 2012, 6:03 PM

    I hope it’s not James it would be such a waste of a young life.

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    Mute Cian O Donnell
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    Aug 23rd 2012, 7:47 PM

    seriously,how many other bodies are floating around in that river at any one time?

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    Mute Gavin Tracy
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    Aug 23rd 2012, 10:41 PM

    It would be someone else’s waste if life then….

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    Mute Susan Duffy
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    Aug 23rd 2012, 10:49 PM

    I hate to have say this why are people red thumbing that comment?

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    Mute louise
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    Aug 23rd 2012, 6:15 PM

    So sad news, I know body isn’t identified yet, thoughts with family at such a sad time, too young to die

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    Mute Richard Mason
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    Aug 23rd 2012, 7:52 PM

    What are the thumbs down about? I can’t see any contentious statements above!

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    Mute Bernadette Dunne
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    Aug 23rd 2012, 8:51 PM

    Richard just ignore the red thumbs on this story We all try too it is such a sad story for the Family who have to deal with this R.I.P and thought for the family

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    Mute Mark Vieregge
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    Aug 23rd 2012, 7:20 PM

    Oh no… :-/

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    Mute James O Mara
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    Aug 23rd 2012, 9:28 PM

    I hope it not James for hisfamly

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    Mute Laura Hannon
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    Aug 23rd 2012, 7:59 PM

    Thumbs down because any loss of life is sad whatever the age.

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    Mute Richard Mason
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    Aug 23rd 2012, 8:10 PM

    I agree Laura but I thought the idea of the thumbs was to make a statement about the comment. Apologies if I have misunderstood.

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    Mute Cian O Donnell
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    Aug 23rd 2012, 8:42 PM

    you havent mis understood at all,the thumbs system is indeed to indicate ones aggreement/disaggreement with a comment..people will thumbs down anything said on this site,no matter what it is

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    Mute Norma Kealy
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    Aug 23rd 2012, 11:43 PM

    well done to the boyne river rescue….a grim task indeed. my condolences to the family and friends of the deceased.

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    Mute kelly whelan
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    Aug 23rd 2012, 9:49 PM

    at least who ever it is has been.found. not in the way any family Will ever hope for but it Will be at least some peace for them. what a heartbreaking time for all concerned. rip.

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    Mute Aisling Doyle
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    Aug 23rd 2012, 9:09 PM

    Dont worry I seen the red thumb record here 1097 so I wouldnt take it personal sometimes with the iPhone or smart (not so Smart) when scrolling down page sometimes ppl hit off it by error I know I for one have .

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    Mute Eileen Gabbett
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    Aug 23rd 2012, 9:51 PM

    R I P . Condolences to the family of the deceased .

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    Mute Tomas Phelan
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    Aug 23rd 2012, 11:43 PM

    RIP to this poor soul, it’s someone’s son, brother etc. May his family gain the strength they will need to get them through the next week. how gives a flying f%@k about red thumbers. They are irrelevant. Trolls will be trolls.

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    Mute kelly whelan
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    Aug 23rd 2012, 9:49 PM

    at least who ever it is has been.found. not in the way any family Will ever hope for but it Will be at least some peace for them. what a heartbreaking time for all concerned. rip.

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    Mute Kay Tighe
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    Aug 24th 2012, 1:27 AM

    Very sad that someone’s son has be taken out of the river

    As for the red thumbs why won’t the journal get rid of this red / green
    Thumbs crap

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    Mute Gavin Tracy
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    Aug 24th 2012, 7:49 AM

    People are saying ” I hope it’s not James” . It’s somebody, and someone’s son!! Whoever it is are facing devastation.. I hope it’s not James just pushes the reality to some other poor family

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    Mute Mick Lennon
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    Aug 24th 2012, 8:56 AM

    am I right that the body found was that poor boy James,tragic,his life taken so young,only making his way in the world god be good to him

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    Mute Don McGuinness
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    Aug 23rd 2012, 11:47 PM

    Why was my comment deleted?

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    Mute Martin St John
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    Nov 26th 2012, 3:29 AM

    Because the journal is like that … Very picky in my opinion and just a tad conservative … It likes to think it’s an important broadsheet , but it’s not really that far removed from most Red-Tops!! Shrude and moronic!!

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