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The FF letters in the logo of the Defence Forces stem from the words 'Fianna Fáil', meaning 'Soldiers of Ireland'. Wikimedia Commons

No plans to remove 'Fianna Fáil' from anthem or Defence Forces logo, says govt

Michael Noonan says the Irish translation of the Soldier’s Song was made before Éamon de Valera founded his political party.

TWO SENIOR MEMBERS of the cabinet have ruled out removing the words ‘Fianna Fáil’ from Amhrán na bhFiann, or the letters FF from the logo of the Defences Forces.

Michael Noonan has said the most common Irish translation of The Soldier’s Song – which was originally written in English – was made before the founding of the political party of the same name.

He was responding to calls from independent TD Maureen O’Sullivan who had asked for his views on whether the phrase ‘Sinne Fianna Fáil’ should be re-translated so that it might not reflect the political party of the same name.

Noonan said academic studies pointed out that the translation most commonly used – made by Liam Ó Rinn, who later became the Oireachtas’ chief translator – was made as early as 1917, and was notably published in 1923.

His translation of ‘soldiers are we’ as ‘Sinne Fianna Fáil’ was a legitimate one because before the signature of the Anglo-Irish Treaty in 1921, the Volunteers had identified themselves as the descendants of Fionn Mac Cumhaill’s Fianna tribe of warriors.

Inis Fáil, meanwhile, was believed to be an old or poetic name for Ireland – meaning ‘Fianna Fáil’ was a sound translation for the concept of ‘Soldiers of Ireland’.

It was not until 1926, Noonan pointed out, that Éamon de Valera founded a political party of the same name. Peadar Kearney’s original lyrics for The Soldier’s Song were written in 1907.

Deffence FForces

The minister’s insistence follows moves by Taoiseach Enda Kenny to rule out changing the logo of the Irish Defence Forces, in order to remove the ‘FF’ letters, which had been inherited from the Free State’s National Army.

Kenny had been asked to consider setting up an ‘independent commission’ by Fine Gael backbencher Derek Keating, which would have been tasked with considering both the adoption of a new national anthem, and the review of symbols worn by national services like Gardaí and the military.

The commission would have been tasked with considering new emblems for the Gardaí, Defence Forces, Fire Service, Civil Defence and other offices of state.

In response to a parliamentary question, however, Kenny said there were “no plans” to appoint any such commission.

When the Irish Free State purchased the copyright of the song – for £1200 in 1934 – it only purchased the original English words written by Kearney, and the music written by Kearney and Patrick Heeney.

Because no legislation has since been enacted to formally declare a national anthem, or to standardise its lyrics, there is no formal Irish language version of the song – with Liam Ó Rinn’s 1917 version merely being the most commonly-known version.

The words ‘Sinne laochra fáil’ are occasionally substituted into the first line in order to avoid reference to the political party.

Though the copyright on the anthem expires at the end of 2012 – 70 years after Kearney’s death – the government does not plan to take any action, believing the original purpose of buying the anthem (in order to ensure its free use) would remain unchanged.

The matter of the national anthem had been occasionally discussed during last year’s presidential election, with some candidates expressing their interest in having it replaced.

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28 Comments
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    Mute Shit you not
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    Feb 5th 2012, 12:33 PM

    Good to see there are politicians there putting their time to good use……. Fix the f**king country you goons!!!

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    Mute Desmond O'Toole
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    Feb 5th 2012, 12:43 PM

    More anti politics politics. Have you even read the article? Senior ministers said they weren’t interested in going down this road. The only person raising it is a little known TD from Lucan who is probably happy that we’re all talking about him!

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    Mute John Stevenson
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    Feb 5th 2012, 12:43 PM

    I know they should all be collectively trying to get the economy fixed and stuff like this should be given the lowest priority possible.

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    Mute Séa Graham
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    Feb 5th 2012, 12:50 PM

    Fix the things that matter. pity the political boyohs can’t fix stupid

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    Mute Charlie Kiernan
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    Feb 5th 2012, 12:51 PM

    Have they nothing better to be doing wasting more tax payers money for fuck sake

    28
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    Mute Tony Skillington
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    Feb 5th 2012, 12:51 PM

    I despise FF but our national anthem should be above politics…and sure Gid love them..if we took FF out of the anthem they’d be complete oblivion altogether…

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    Mute Sheila Murphy
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    Feb 5th 2012, 12:55 PM

    lol Tony; it’s exactly where they belong!! – oblivion ;-)

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    Mute Tony Skillington
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    Feb 5th 2012, 12:57 PM

    *God*

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    Mute Réada Quinn
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    Feb 5th 2012, 1:03 PM

    Leave the national anthem alone. Let’s make those chancers FF change their flipping name. Suggestions?

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    Mute Billygoatmuff
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    Feb 5th 2012, 1:09 PM

    Berties Ba#¥ards.

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    Mute Réada Quinn
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    Feb 5th 2012, 2:00 PM

    I like Billy. Charlie’s Cheats could be up there too. But yours has a good ring to it.

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    Mute Sheila Murphy
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    Feb 5th 2012, 2:27 PM

    good idea Reada, how about Ffin Fail(ures) lol

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    Mute Sheila Murphy
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    Feb 5th 2012, 2:31 PM

    Tony don’t worry about your Gid/God correction ;-) we got what you meant…….. after all though sometimes an incorrect letter makes a world of difference: e,g,
    Ireland – Iceland; bigger difference than just a R and a C
    IBRC – BRIC- first one an organisation set on bankrupting a nation – the 2nd a wealthy organisation

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    Mute Rommel Burke
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    Feb 5th 2012, 3:13 PM

    @Reada
    The same shit different day party?

    6
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    Mute Réada Quinn
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    Feb 5th 2012, 4:24 PM

    They’d have to be quick Rommel. FG and Labour would love that name too. In the interests of transparency like

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    Mute Rommel Burke
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    Feb 5th 2012, 5:03 PM

    ahh they could always settle for same shit next day party?

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    Mute Colm Flaherty
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    Feb 5th 2012, 1:37 PM

    The anthem came before the party, let the “Fianna Fail” party change yheir name to something more appropriate!

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    Mute Eire
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    Feb 5th 2012, 1:05 PM

    Hope Keating is a one term TD ……He has not dared tackle the real issues in his constituency of Dublin Mid West (Lucan & Clondalkin) where the monthly unemployment figures continue to soar , & home owners struggle to make ends meet with his party (Fine Gael) heaping indirect taxes & burden on his constituents …,.

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    Mute The kop
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    Feb 5th 2012, 1:12 PM

    Is that TD for real…. Holy Fu#k…. Fix the problems in Lucan you dimwit…. Does he think the people in Lucan/clondalkin are in bed at night saying how will we pay the esb bill or do they say god I had the fact that the first line of the anthem says sinne fianna fail….. Is he on something? Cos it ain’t planet earth…

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    Mute The kop
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    Feb 5th 2012, 1:13 PM

    Hate the fact …. That should say… Sorry for typo!

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    Mute Mad Taoiseach
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    Feb 5th 2012, 12:46 PM

    FF über alles.

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    Mute Donna Walsh
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    Feb 5th 2012, 1:05 PM

    Is this the kink of crap that has enda kenny working day and night as he stated in yesterdays papers.I think they would be better trying to sort out this country

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    Mute Shebeen Balla
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    Feb 5th 2012, 1:32 PM

    Just another effort to take our minds off real issues… Have we forgotten about property tax etc… Closing date soon… This type of rubbish seems to make us forget what is important. Time wasting td’s need to go with senate.

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    Mute Trish Cosgrove
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    Feb 5th 2012, 4:20 PM

    Maureen O Sullivan , are you aware of what’s really going on around you at all ? Unbelievable

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    Mute Glen Sargent
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    May 13th 2012, 10:30 PM

    What kind of TD is he all the crap that’s happen to this country finances, And all he is worried about is FF in the Defense forces and National Anthem, If the same men where around now as when our beautiful country was founded they line all those politicians up now and shoot them for destroying years of hard work dragging it out of the cutter before these Muppet’s put us back there.

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    Mute Niall Carty
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    Feb 6th 2012, 5:31 PM

    What would we replace the letters with?????

    A shamrock? FG? SF? EU? EEC?
    A swastika? A crown????

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    Mute Sean O
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    Jan 27th 2013, 9:29 AM

    I think the shamrock should be on the flag so it can be recognised when seen with other flags in foreign country’s . So many flags are very similar after the weather gets to them.

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    Mute John Quill
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    Feb 16th 2012, 12:22 AM

    I think we have bigger fish to fry in Ireland today.

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