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Niall Carson/PA

Deadline missed: No deal reached in Stormont talks

The power-sharing assembly has been vacant since January.

Updated at 4.15pm

A DEADLINE TO restore power-sharing in Northern Ireland has been missed.

Parties had until 4pm to strike a deal.

The power-sharing assembly has been vacant since January after a bitter row between Sinn Féin and the DUP over the “cash-for-ash” scandal.

Discussions had continued until 2am and resumed earlier today.

Downing Street has confirmed that talks will be extended until Monday, when Northern Ireland Secretary James Brokenshire will make a statement about what will happen next.

The British government had set a deadline of 4pm for the formation of an executive before it transfers power back to Westminster or orders another election.

Brokenshire earlier said that “much progress” had been made. However, he said there were a number of issues outstanding, and he urged parties to continue efforts to achieve a resolution.

Foreign Affairs Minister Simon Coveney earlier issued a statement agreeing that “significant” progress had been made, but adding that “there are still gaps to be bridged on a number of key issues”.

Coveney said: ”All parties are committed to the successful operation of all of the institutions of the Good Friday Agreement and everyone is convinced that devolution is the best way to deliver for all of the people of Northern Ireland.

With courage and goodwill this can be achieved and everyone here will now continue to focus on delivering that positive outcome.

In the time the executive has been vacant, the DUP and Sinn Féin took the most seats in assembly elections and the DUP entered a supply and confidence agreement with the Conservatives to prop up the Westminster parliament.

Not running smoothly 

Leaders in London and Dublin have voiced their support for a deal in the North in recent weeks.

However, the DUP’s Edwin Poots yesterday indicated talks were not running smoothly.

“I can’t say they are easy but nonetheless we want to get Stormont up and running,” he said.

“I would encourage Sinn Féin to be mature. No high-wire acts: let’s get down to work, knuckle down and find a way through this.”

Sinn Féin, meanwhile, accused the DUP last night of refusing to budge on any of their demands.

With reporting by Órla Ryan

Read: DUP and Sinn Féin have just 24 hours to reach a deal – so what happens if they don’t?

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160 Comments
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    Mute Dark Knight
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    Jun 29th 2017, 8:41 AM

    It is illogical for a a small island on the periphery of Europe to be split in two because a small minority on the island want to remain loyal to a London tourist attraction.
    Arlene Foster should have stepped down after the cash for ash scandal, there is no job in the world where a person can claim they are competent of fulfilling their duties after they make a blunder that costs close to half a billion

    367
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    Mute Honeybadger197
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    Jun 29th 2017, 8:57 AM

    @Dark Knight: Its illogical to declare that Island wants to unite when all polls suggest the opposite is true.

    85
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    Mute Tommy Whelan
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    Jun 29th 2017, 8:59 AM

    @Dark Knight: why would unionists in the north want to be part of a UI . Let’s be honest for many people in this country a UI has nothing to do with unity . It’s more to do with hate that unionists and republicans have for one another where they see the border as some sort of battle ground . It’s actually a good deal unionists get the six counties and republicans get twenty six counties . You just have to look at what happen to the protestant population in the early twenties when 40000 protestants fled the country due to intimidation from republicans . http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/revealed-why-40-000-protestants-fled-ireland-in-four-years-1-7940663

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    Mute Mr Phil Officer
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    Jun 29th 2017, 9:19 AM

    @Tommy Whelan: 60 years before that millions of native Irish were drove out of Ireland, millions more were starved to death.

    106
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    Mute Boganity
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    Jun 29th 2017, 9:25 AM

    @Honeybadger197: they’d be the fake polls then not the real ones

    29
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    Mute Craba
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    Jun 29th 2017, 9:25 AM

    @Mr Phil Officer: @Tommy Whelan:
    The past is the past. The famine was 170 years ago, the War of Independence almost a 100. Until we can let it go and move on we will get nowhere. We can learn from it, but we have got to let it go.

    42
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    Mute Boganity
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    Jun 29th 2017, 9:26 AM

    @Craba: it happened…period so you need to get over that

    27
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    Mute Mr Phil Officer
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    Jun 29th 2017, 9:28 AM

    @Craba: you contradict your earlier post.

    16
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    Mute Pádraig Ó Braonáin
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    Jun 29th 2017, 9:44 AM
    21
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    Mute Craba
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    Jun 29th 2017, 9:47 AM

    @Mr Phil Officer:
    No I didn’t. I learn from the past. I know that the problems Ireland have were exacerbated 10 fold by the “Troubles” in Northern Ireland, I am not convinced that they are completely in the past. I hope they are, and fully agree with letting it go (if it really is gone)

    I was contradicting your ridiculous assertions that the people who opposed violence and murder were the cause of this islands current predicament.

    7
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    Mute Tommy Whelan
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    Jun 29th 2017, 9:53 AM

    @Mr Phil Officer: so your saying that the ethnic cleansing of Protestants was justified because of a famine .

    9
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    Mute Craba
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    Jun 29th 2017, 9:57 AM

    @Pádraig Ó Braonáin:
    Did you have a look at the polls on the same article?
    I don’t know where you are from, but most Irish people want to see a united peaceful island of Ireland. Government of Northern Ireland from a particular jurisdiction isn’t the answer.
    Its local dialogue and cooperation that will unite the Island and the people living on it. So I don’t think you will see any support for a jurisdiction change in any referendum anytime soon.

    10
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    Mute Dark Knight
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    Jun 29th 2017, 10:26 AM

    @Honeybadger197: if polls were to be trusted there would be a majority tory cabinet, no brexit and Hillary Clinton would be president of the US

    30
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    Mute Dark Knight
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    Jun 29th 2017, 10:29 AM

    @Tommy Whelan: Partition on a small island is ridiculous. From an economic perspective having a small island using different currencies, having separate governments and one being in and the other outside the EU is a ridiculous situation

    38
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    Mute Craba
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    Jun 29th 2017, 10:44 AM

    @Dark Knight:
    Its not an ideal situation.
    But its a highly complex problem, many thousands have lost their lives because of it. There is no simple solution. It will take many years and significant change of mindsets to solve.

    9
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    Mute Todd
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    Jun 29th 2017, 10:56 AM

    @Honeybadger197: Lie.

    12
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    Mute Tommy Whelan
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    Jun 29th 2017, 11:20 AM

    @Dark Knight: if your argument is base on economic prosperity then the same argument would apply to the republic joining the UK . Families would be thousands of pounds better off . Cheaper food . Fuel . Running a car and so on . Our two hundred billion notional debt would be lifted from the shoulders of our grand children . Economically we be far better off and secure . Is that a reason to rejoin the UK .

    11
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    Mute Adam Lawson
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    Jun 29th 2017, 3:34 PM

    @Tommy Whelan: You’re absolutely right, of course, that unionists don’t see a United Ireland as bringing unity. But I myself do find it sad that, as a Donegal Protestant (who am admittedly living in London) there are many who would insist that I only ‘belong’ to the six counties in the North, and who believe that Ireland would function better as an island divided into a ‘country for Catholics’ and a ‘country for Protestants’. I feel part of a community with Protestant Irish, Catholic Irish, Irish of other faiths and of none equally: someday I wish that enough fellow Protestants – in particular, Protestants living in Northern Ireland – might join me and make a really united Ireland possible.

    33
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    Mute Dark Knight
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    Jun 29th 2017, 4:34 PM

    @Tommy Whelan: so you think we would be better off in the UK than the EU. You my friend are an idiot

    18
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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Jun 29th 2017, 5:28 PM

    @Dark Knight: You may be right, but the ultimate decision is made by the people and as we have seen in recent elections the DUP increased their mandate. So therefore it is only the oposition calling for Arlene Foster to stand down, hardly a democratic majority.

    1
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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Jun 29th 2017, 5:32 PM

    @Tommy Whelan: Don’t forget that UK househols pay a Council tax along with other bills for water, gas etc runs into thousands of pounds per household.
    Do you still think we would be better off…….

    10
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    Mute Alan Roddy
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    Jun 29th 2017, 5:52 PM

    @Tommy Whelan: “You just have to look at what happen to the protestant population in the early twenties when 40000 protestants fled the country due to intimidation from republicans”.
    Err, I think we can safely say that Ireland as a whole has progressed beyond that in the last 100-odd years…

    8
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    Mute Elizabeth Gregory
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    Jun 29th 2017, 6:45 PM

    @Adam Lawson: thank you Adam for being a voice of reason in a comment thread that’s been hijacked by bitterness and bile. The trolling and incitement of some commentators is disgusting but sadly, not surprising.

    5
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    Mute Richard Doherty
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    Jun 30th 2017, 8:48 AM

    @Honeybadger197: what polls have you been reading Belfast telegraph polls say the total opposite

    1
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    Mute Tommy Whelan
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    Jun 30th 2017, 9:13 AM

    @Alan Roddy: go back to 2006 when O Connell street turn into a war zone over a orange order march .

    1
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    Mute Suzie Sunshine
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    Jun 30th 2017, 11:48 AM

    @

    1
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    Mute Shane McGivern
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    Jun 29th 2017, 7:47 AM

    I’d say wee Arlene & Co would be happy to dig their heels in and push towards direct rule, share the front benches of Westminster with the Wheat Lady and no Taigs to annoy her over RHI….

    202
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    Mute Boganity
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    Jun 29th 2017, 9:20 AM

    And she’s also aware the armalites and semptex are being dug up at the minute

    38
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    Mute Scundered
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    Jun 29th 2017, 1:59 PM

    @Boganity: That didn’t work the first time, but I guess you just can’t cure stupid.

    40
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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Jun 29th 2017, 5:35 PM

    @Shane McGivern: But they don’t share the front benches, far from it with the present arrangement at Westminster….

    5
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    Mute Noirin Kavanagh
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    Jun 29th 2017, 5:50 PM

    @Scundered: it is a tragic and horrible fact that the violence of the troubles lead to the GFA, which brought some peace and hope for a future in which Catholics could assert their right to equal treatment and choose to be part of UÍ if they wished. Do you seriously think that without thirty years of violence, economic mayhem and newsreels worldwide showing NI up, the British would have yielded an inch? I hate the violence that happened but also hate the bigotry and hatred that caused it.

    14
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    Mute Scundered
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    Jun 29th 2017, 8:23 PM

    @Noirin Kavanagh: violence breeds hatred and violence, it doesn’t solve problems. After all that bombing they still don’t have a united Ireland. They may have had it a long time ago had they not resorted to bombing civilians, it is infinitely more achievable by making friends with your enemy, not trying to wipe them out.

    1
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    Mute Larry Kavanagh
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    Jun 29th 2017, 11:54 PM

    @Scundered: The Loyalists/Unionists were running an apartheid system where Catholics had few rights or opportunities. The civil rights movement began to protest at this unfairness and were met with Loyalist/Unionist violence and murder supported by the civil powers which were Loyalist/Unionist dominated. When the peaceful civil rights approach was met with such violent reaction a door was opened for anarchy to enter the scene and the IRA was mobilised as a reactionary force to defend the underdogs, The peaceful approach was tried but the Loyalist/Unionist dominators weren’t prepared to budge, hence the resort to violence. Nobody was looking to wipe out anybody, all that was being sought was equal rights but the violent reaction to a fair demand meant that an uprising became inevitable. If you look at the history of the troubles you will find that the early murders and attacks were carried out by Loyalists/Unionists who sought to protect their dominant position, they started it and the escalation was inevitable.

    2
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    Mute Paul Lane
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    Jun 30th 2017, 2:59 AM

    @Shane McGivern: Direct rule means no access to the so called cash windfall which means that they would be supporting the tories for naught, which would not go down well with their own

    1
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    Mute MK76
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    Jun 29th 2017, 7:42 AM

    SF have no interest in governing in any of the parliaments they are a member of. Grandstanding and populist BS is much easier then having to make actual decisions, many of which may be unpopular.

    Instead, they’ll just keep propagating the fantasy of a utopian 32 County Republic, where everything is free as long as the other guy is paying for it.

    153
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    Mute Boganity
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    Jun 29th 2017, 8:28 AM

    @MK76: you a DUP member ?

    175
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    Mute Hurt Stoogie
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    Jun 29th 2017, 8:31 AM

    @Boganity: is anything he said untrue? He’s 100% correct.

    100
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    Mute Dave Sherman
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    Jun 29th 2017, 8:36 AM

    @Boganity.
    So if you saying anything about SinnFeinn that makes you DUP? Need to come up with some better argument than that.

    52
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    Mute Boganity
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    Jun 29th 2017, 8:37 AM

    @Hurt Stoogie: then maybe you, or he, would like to provide us with something a bit more substantial than a statement of your opinions.

    46
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    Mute Dark Knight
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    Jun 29th 2017, 8:42 AM

    @MK76: you would have made a great informant back in the day. The island has always been held back by its most spineless inhabitants

    66
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    Mute MK76
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    Jun 29th 2017, 9:18 AM

    Ha Dark Knight. About the standard of response you’d expect from a good wee republican.

    And if you weren’t so blinded by the brainless and empty promises of SF, you’d actually see that it is they who are spineless by consistently running from governance and hiding away from decision making.

    53
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    Mute The Risen
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    Jun 29th 2017, 9:18 AM

    @MK76: SF collapsed the assembly on an anti corruption point of principle and are keeping their election pledge about taking seats in westminister.

    Don’t worry, we don’t expect any of the interchangable FF/FG/Labour accounts to understand either of those things.

    69
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    Mute Craba
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    Jun 29th 2017, 9:19 AM

    @Dark Knight: As opposed to the various incarnations of the terrorist organisations who robbed murdered and maimed for 40 years?

    25
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    Mute Hurt Stoogie
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    Jun 29th 2017, 9:24 AM

    @The Risen: sf and their righteousness. Funny story jamming…

    25
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    Mute Mr Phil Officer
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    Jun 29th 2017, 9:27 AM

    @Craba: who funded and trained the loyalist terrorists.

    37
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    Mute Good Early
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    Jun 29th 2017, 9:29 AM

    @MK76: Ah..I see the FG frape room is back off their smoke break. We were missing ye off the threads discussing national crisis caused by your party in government.

    Great to see you have an opinion of another party operating in another jurisdiction.

    37
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    Mute MK76
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    Jun 29th 2017, 9:33 AM

    Is Jammin now calling himself “The Risen”?

    Keeping an electorate promise that is a complete farce and hypocritical considering SF’s British MPs get paid by British people, isn’t a virtue to anyone other than the good wee Republicans.

    17
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    Mute Pádraig Ó Braonáin
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    Jun 29th 2017, 9:41 AM

    @MK76: You have to admit…refusing to allow an Irish Language act…is just pure badness.

    41
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    Mute Richard Doherty
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    Jun 29th 2017, 10:07 AM

    @MK76: sounds like uneducated uniformed biased view of sinn fein if more people read sinn feins policys they see why its party in building for future to challange narrow minded corrupt politics of fine gael and fianna fail whos policys are the same and both have ireland in bad state it is in

    32
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    Mute Eoghan Brunkard
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    Jun 29th 2017, 10:35 AM

    @Hurt Stoogie: The DUP are bound by an international agreement to bring in and Irish language act, and a humans rights one, they’ve done neither. Their leader is involved in one of the most expensive governing mess-ups (and I’m being polite there) in the region. She will not step aside for an investigation.
    Why are you blaming Sinn Fein?

    45
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    Mute Craba
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    Jun 29th 2017, 10:39 AM

    @Mr Phil Officer: I don’t know. Who?

    3
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    Mute Matt Connolly
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    Jun 29th 2017, 1:27 PM

    @Boganity: nope – that’s the YFG troll account

    13
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    Mute LUCY Thomas
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    Jun 29th 2017, 5:18 PM

    @MK76: what a load of hog wash. I believe the SF position to be a viable one. They have governed well for the past decade and very proactively engaging all communities on cultural and political levels. Breaking from norm of the troubles meeting the queen standing in government shaking hands with sworn enemies, seems to me the ball is due to be served back.. come on Irish language act? That fearful?

    1
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    Mute Harry Whitehead
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    Jun 29th 2017, 5:30 PM

    @Eoghan Brunkard: Because as long as SF continue scratching their balls under an abstention policy, they have no right to complain if Arlene and co make a pig’s ear of things in Stormont.

    3
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    Mute M Bowe
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    Jun 29th 2017, 5:39 PM

    @Boganity: MK76 is just a DUPE.

    6
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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Jun 29th 2017, 5:42 PM

    @The Risen: I think that the reason is that they have managed to snuff out other nationalist voices in the north where the Stormont Assembly offers a voice to all shades of opinion. Hitler did the same thing in Germany during the 1930′s and eventually ruled the country under a jack-boot.

    3
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    Mute Dark Knight
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    Jun 29th 2017, 5:46 PM

    @Craba: 40 years is a bit short a time frame, you may have seen Michael Collins a few too many times but the the truth about the war of independence is an ugly truth. We have a romantic notion of what happened during the water but it was every bit as bad if not worse than the troubles. It just became vogue when we had independence to criticise those in the north. With our own government, if the people in the Republic had stood up for their fellow Irish citizens in the north they would have never needed to resort to violence

    10
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    Mute martobaby
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    Jun 29th 2017, 7:53 AM

    What a absolute mess Northern Ireland has become!

    71
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    Mute ktsiwot
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    Jun 29th 2017, 8:17 AM

    @martobaby: always was

    59
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    Mute Tír Eoghain Gael
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    Jun 29th 2017, 8:24 AM

    Partition made a mess of the entire island ffs

    139
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    Mute Hurt Stoogie
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    Jun 29th 2017, 8:33 AM

    @Tír Eoghain Gael: we’re grand. You can keep your sectarian mess that side of the border.

    24
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    Mute Boganity
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    Jun 29th 2017, 8:33 AM

    @Tír Eoghain Gael: interesting take given the Republic’s GDP is 80% of the entire island’s GDP. It was the other way around before partition so that clearly indicates it has been a disaster for NI and a huge success for the republic.

    23
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    Mute Tír Eoghain Gael
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    Jun 29th 2017, 8:56 AM

    @Boganity: You regard being a debt ridden cesspitt of corruption and cronyism as success?

    28
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    Mute Honeybadger197
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    Jun 29th 2017, 9:13 AM

    @Tír Eoghain Gael: With that attitude to my lovely country, it begs the question why do you camp out on these articles demanding reunification? Seems counter-intuitive, no?

    22
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    Mute Tír Eoghain Gael
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    Jun 29th 2017, 9:22 AM

    @Honeybadger197: In regards your ‘camping out’ bit, people in glass houses etc. I’d hazzard a guess that you spend a lot more time on here than I do.

    As regards ‘my lovely country’. Ireland is my country too and I take no pleasure in seeing it divided with one side of the border being held back by unionism and the other being a debt and greed ridden corrupt cesspit full of people who shamefully turned their back on their own after partition just because they gor their little bit of indepedence. I don’t want to reunify with the free state. I want to reunify and see an actual Republic.

    43
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    Mute Boganity
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    Jun 29th 2017, 9:24 AM

    @Tír Eoghain Gael: that’s your perception, you’d be the guy, on finding a pay packet in the street would complain about the tax on your windfall

    18
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    Mute Tír Eoghain Gael
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    Jun 29th 2017, 9:30 AM

    @Boganity: My perception?? But one that you opt not to challenge but instead just offer up some personal abuse?? So which part of “my perception” do you contest…that the 26 counties are in debt or that there has been corruption and incompetence in successive governments?

    24
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    Mute Honeybadger197
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    Jun 29th 2017, 9:30 AM

    @Tír Eoghain Gael: I get it Tyrone, your version of what Ireland is, or should be , is the only valid version. I fear you will live the rest of your days disappointed. Thankfully.

    17
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    Mute Craba
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    Jun 29th 2017, 9:38 AM

    @Tír Eoghain Gael: While Ireland is not perfect, It most definitely is not a “cesspit of corruption and cronyism”

    It Ranks 19th in the world out of 176 countries on the CPI. Making it in fact one of the least corrupt countries in the world. The UK ranks 10th, but you probably knew that

    22
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    Mute Tír Eoghain Gael
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    Jun 29th 2017, 9:39 AM

    @Honeybadger197: So a republic that has 32 counties and is not based on greed or corruption, is in your opinion not only too much to ask but also is not just undesirable, but “invalid” too?

    Way to elegantly demonstrate the very mentality that has left the free state in such a mess!

    14
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    Mute Honeybadger197
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    Jun 29th 2017, 10:04 AM

    @Tír Eoghain Gael: Breaking News: *** the Free State ended 29th December 1937*** the Free State ended 29th December 1937*** End.

    17
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    Mute Craba
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    Jun 29th 2017, 10:08 AM

    @Tír Eoghain Gael:
    We all want a peaceful, inclusive 32 county republic. Considering the state of Northern Ireland at the moment, most Irish people think that is a long way off.

    13
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    Mute Tír Eoghain Gael
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    Jun 29th 2017, 10:13 AM

    @Craba: Indeed Craba. Comfortably behind the bulk of western europe, but yeah well ahead of Buhtan and Barbados etc. Of course since that index, we’ve since had revelations from the Gardai of over one million falsified breath tests (there’s pay bonuses for increased numbers, don’t you know) and the almost 15,000 wrongful convictions and the most disgusting form of smearing imaginable for those that tried to blow the whistle. And the garda chief keeps her job. The gardai is just kne third the size of the London Met Police yet have currently got SEVENTEEN different investigations, enquiries, reviews and reports being carried out into it. And we’ll not even begin to talk about FG and FF/tweedledum and tweedledee.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 10:14 AM

    @Honeybadger197: Unfortunately as well as being geographically separated from Ireland, there are many in Northern Ireland who are temporally separated from us.

    Perhaps they misunderstood the word “temporally”. Possibly the accent

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    Jun 29th 2017, 10:15 AM

    @Honeybadger197: Way to engage in an adult conversation there honeybadger.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 10:19 AM

    @Tír Eoghain Gael:
    As I said, we are not perfect. But like most people in Ireland, we will wait and see the facts, rather than pick up the pitchforks. because we believe in fairness and due process.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 10:27 AM

    @Craba:
    “we will wait and see the facts, rather than pick up the pitchforks. because we believe in fairness and due process.”

    Try telling that to Maurice McCabe!!

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    Jun 29th 2017, 10:45 AM

    @Tír Eoghain Gael: I’m sorry Tyrone. Your constant use of the “Free State” term is tiresome. If you’d prefer to engage in meaningless labels feel free. I’ll just keep reminding you of the facts. One day it’ll sink in.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 10:50 AM

    @Tír Eoghain Gael:
    Your concern for An Garda Síochána is admirable, is this a change of direction for the provisional movement?
    Lets see all the facts in relation to all the issues and individuals.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 10:52 AM

    @Honeybadger197: You are wasting your time. Tir Eoghain believes that only his Irishness is valid. Nobody elses.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 11:18 AM

    “You are wasting your time. Tir Eoghain believes that only his Irishness is valid. Nobody elses.”

    So because I’m criticising corruption in the 26 counties, I’m somehow telling people their “Irishness” isn’t valid? Care to explain the logical behind that one for me there craba?

    Allow to to put your mind at ease. Your Irishness, and my Irishness, and Honeybadgers Irishness, are all equal and all equally valid.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 12:10 PM

    @Tír Eoghain Gael:

    Obviously a a reply to your “free state” nonsense.

    As an Irish person born in Ireland who is aware of the fact the the country Ireland is an autonomous, internationally recognised independent country, that does not include Northern Ireland, which is a part of the UK. (Don’t forget you also voted for it in 1998 to remain that way). You clearly don’t recognise the validity of my Irishness.
    Your comment from Jun 14th 2017, 11:27 AM
    “I hold partitionist free staters in contempt as being nothing more that traitorous, principle-less embarrassments.”

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    Jun 29th 2017, 12:28 PM

    @Craba: “As an Irish person born in Ireland who is aware of the fact the the country Ireland is an autonomous, internationally recognised independent country, that does not include Northern Ireland, which is a part of the UK.”

    So only moments after (wrongly) accusing me of/criticising me for telling people their Irishness is invalid, your response to my rebutal of that accusation is to imply that my own Irishness is not valid by virtue of me being from one of the six counties. Bravo, craba! You don’t do irony, do you?

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    Jun 29th 2017, 12:28 PM

    @Craba:
    “Your comment from Jun 14th 2017, 11:27 AM
    “I hold partitionist free staters in contempt as being nothing more that traitorous, principle-less embarrassments.””
    Indeed. I did say that and my view remains the same. Anyone from the 26 counties who actively embraces the division of their own country is very much a traitorous, principle-less embarrassment. Does that mean I regard such people as not being Irish or their Irishness as being invalid? Of course not. Like myself, they were still born in Ireland and such, are Irish.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 12:59 PM

    @Tír Eoghain Gael:
    If you feel that strongly why did you vote for an agreement that confirms Northern Ireland’s position as part of the UK.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 1:05 PM

    @Tír Eoghain Gael:
    Your numerous posts on the benefits of the ’98 agreement would imply that you, in fact, actively embraced it

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    Jun 29th 2017, 1:05 PM

    @Craba: The agreement didn’t alter it’s constitutional status. It did however, legally recognise my right to my Irishness. You know, the Irishness that you tacitly implied is invalid (only moments after claiming I was telling people their Irishness was not valid)?

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    Jun 29th 2017, 1:14 PM

    @Tír Eoghain Gael: Actually your UK debt is higher 89% of GDP…..Our debt is 79% of GDP….Achivement of last government to get it down so far…..

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    Jun 29th 2017, 1:20 PM

    @John003: And? Like I say, partition has been bad for the entire island.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 1:32 PM

    @Tír Eoghain Gael: Well I think the root of the problem was the Ulster plantation…..Difficult to reverse now…..Partition was just accepting the reality of the Ulster plantation…..

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    Jun 29th 2017, 1:38 PM

    @Tír Eoghain Gael:
    You are incorrect. As part of the agreement Ireland voted overwhelmingly to modify articles 2 and 3 of the constitution to remove all territorial claims to Northern Ireland. The agreement fundamentally changed Ireland’s constituitonal postion on Northern Ireland.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 1:39 PM

    @Tír Eoghain Gael:
    I don’t claim your Irishness is invalid, but your take on reality certainly is. There is no “Free State”. Ireland is an independent, internationally recognised, autonomous country. It doesn’t include Northern Ireland which is part of the UK. This is not an opinion or a theory. This is an indisputable fact.

    We may not like it but it is a fact. Some Irish people are not happy about this fact, others don’t really care. The latter are not traitors, just ordinary people with ordinary problems getting on with their lives.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 1:45 PM

    @Craba: You initially stated that the GFA “confirms Northern Ireland’s position as part of the UK.” Ergo, you were talking about the constitutional status of the north, not the south. So when I replied that “the agreement didn’t alter IT’S constitutional status”, I was quite obviously referring to the same six counties you were talking about. And, again, the GFA did not alter the six counties constitutional status one iota.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 1:52 PM

    @Tír Eoghain Gael:
    “Like I say, partition has been bad for the entire island.”
    While nobody can know for sure, the most likely scenario of the rejection of the Anglo Irish Treaty would have been full scale occupation of the island by Britsh Troops. It would have been an horrific bloodbath. 90 years later we would still be part of the UK, and probably more akin to Wales than Scotland.
    I would say partition was better than the likely alternatives.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 1:56 PM

    @Craba: “I don’t claim your Irishness is invalid”
    Good to hear. It certainly seemed like you were since when I referred to me being Irish, your reply was to tell me where I live is not in Ireland.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 1:57 PM

    @Craba:
    “Ireland is an independent, internationally recognised, autonomous country. It doesn’t include Northern Ireland which is part of the UK. This is not an opinion or a theory. This is an indisputable fact.”
    Ireland is also the name of this island, and those of us born on it are legally entitled to hold Irish nationality. As such, I am as Irish as anyone born in Cork or Galway. To claim otherwise is to suggest that there were no such thing as Irish people until December 1922.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 1:58 PM

    “We may not like it but it is a fact. Some Irish people are not happy about this fact, others don’t really care. The latter are not traitors, just ordinary people with ordinary problems getting on with their lives.”
    The latter are most certainly traitors. How can anyone not care/actively support the division of their country and tell those that are left behind that they don’t live in the same country? History will not look back kindly on the attitude of the people of the 26 counties post-partition.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 2:00 PM

    @Tír Eoghain Gael:
    The only relevant constitution is the Irish constitution. The Belfast Agreement is an internationally recognised treaty in which Ireland and the UK confirmed Nothern Ireland’s position as part of the UK.
    As part of the agreement Ireland voted overwhelmingly to modify articles 2 and 3 of the constitution to remove all territorial claims to Northern Ireland. The agreement fundamentally changed Ireland’s constituitonal postion on Northern Ireland.
    I am not sure to what other “constitutional status” your are referrring.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 2:04 PM

    @Tír Eoghain Gael:

    You are very different than any Irish person I know.

    Good luck. i’ll I have to earn a living, I don’t get paid out of central funds to post here.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 2:14 PM

    @Craba: All totally subjective. The reality now is that partition has been cancerous for the entire island. And the looming reality of brexit, which will make the border even more tangible, will only worsen a bad situation. The economic hindrances for businesses in the border regions are well documented (though probably not understood/realised/appreciated beyond those regions.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 2:14 PM

    @Craba: But beyond just economic arguments – the fact that partition has left a substantial chunk of Irish people cut off from their own homeland, and that those in the whom they regard as their own countrymen to the south then went on to turn their back on them, leaves a lasting legacy of bitterness that will take a long, long time to recover from.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 2:16 PM

    @Craba: The fact that the six counties were not only disowned but now ignored by the people of the south, is a tragedy of partition. Only last week, David McWilliams (writing from the mourne mountain regions) in the Belfast Telegraph began an article on the inevitability of a reunited Ireland and began by stating “Co Down is one of the most beautiful counties in Ireland. It’s a pity so few of us in the Republic head up the M1 to witness the hauntingly empty beauty just a few miles to the north.”

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    Jun 29th 2017, 2:16 PM

    @Craba: Partition has left a cancerous mindset in the south that their own countrymen and women in the north are somehow ‘foreigners’ or ‘different’ or ‘unworthy’ or ‘not-really-Irish’ and that they rarely even would desire to cross the border, is shameful in the extreme.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 2:17 PM

    @Craba: Above 4 posts supposed to be one comment. Journal won’t allow it as one reply for some reason.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 2:20 PM

    @Craba: “I am not sure to what other “constitutional status” your are referring.”

    Are you a bit slow on the uptake? You referred to the constitutional status of the north as being part of the UK as affirmed by the GFA, and questioned why I would vote for the GFA, given that specific reason.
    I replied by stating that the GFA didn’t alter the north’s constituional status, so why wouldn’t I have voted for it.
    To which you replied by talking about the southern constitution, knowing full well we were BOTH talking about the north. There’s moving the goalposts and there’s taking the pi55.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 2:36 PM

    @Tír Eoghain Gael:
    We are very different. Whether its partition or not, its pretty obvious. The vast majority of Irish people in the country Ireland don’t care about partition. The only people who use the word are people from Northern Ireland.

    I keep saying it and I firmly believe it, there will not be and cannot be a united Ireland until there is a peaceful and functioning Northern Ireland. The complexities of Nothern Ireland and Ireland becoming a single country again are enormous, and it will take many many years to achieve. Divisions in Northern Ireland will make it impossible to implement.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 2:42 PM

    @Tir Eoghain.
    You are making no sense. What constitutional status are you referring to?
    The status of Northern Ireland is defined in international agreements, not in any constitution.
    The only relevant constitution in the Irish constitution which has removed all territorial claims to Northern Ireland.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 2:47 PM

    @Craba: If the best you can do when you get your a55 handed to you is to move the goalposts and then play ignorant, then I’ll not waste my time with you any longer.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 2:54 PM

    @Tír Eoghain Gael:
    You are not the brightest? are you?

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    Jun 29th 2017, 4:13 PM

    @Tír Eoghain Gael: “History will not look back kindly on the attitude of the people of the 26 counties post-partition.”

    The funniest thing about those posts is your labelling of people as traitors etc and pushing an agenda that many are opposed to, that just makes you fall directly into the hands of unionism,ie. keep stirring the pot and keep everyone at each others throats, instead of letting them get along and more in line with becoming united, because you’ll never unite a country unless you address uniting the people, and you have no intention of that. Quite the opposite.

    You have incredibly become your own biggest problem.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 4:27 PM

    @Scundered:
    Quote from scundered on 14th June about me:
    “That’s funny, you always talk about the protestant side in a very derogatory manner.”

    I’ve repeatedly challenged you to either post up a single quote & link of me making a derogatory comment about Protestants and each time you are challenged to back up the claim, you disappear. I’l challenge you once again. Post up the proof or retract your claim.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 5:47 PM

    @Tír Eoghain Gael: Perhaps you are right, but it was a Sinn Fein decision at the time with Arthur Griffith signing the Treaty document.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 6:01 PM

    @Tír Eoghain Gael: Even if this country was United there is no guarantee that the northern parties would participate in its government and as we have seen in NI Sinn Fein would eventually drag it down to thegutter level.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 7:30 PM

    @Chris Kirk: Lol shat? How did SF drag it down to the gutter level? Martin McGuinness gave the DUP every opportunity to do the right thing and to keep the assembly functioning!

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    Jun 29th 2017, 7:56 AM

    Think SF will compromise in the end….They need to get the credit for any extra money spend in nationalist areas….The sectarian logic of NI demands it….

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    Jun 29th 2017, 8:59 AM

    Personally I Hate the Irish Language as I was forced to learn Everything in Primary School! I understood Nothing! Then, I had to Relearn Everything in English in Secondary School!

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    Jun 29th 2017, 9:23 AM

    @Maire: when you relearned English did they teach you to use capital letters on every second word.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 10:38 AM

    @Mr Phil Officer: I am with you on that. The current debate on forming a government in the north is sad and sectarianism driven from both sides. A debate over a language that is hardly used on a daily basis by the vast majority of people (Irish) and a dead made up language (Ulster Scotts).
    Where are the arguments on the Economy, Education (proper education),Health, Social issues such as marriage equality. If these were the issues stopping a government been formed then you could see some logic, however the language issue is just out and out sectarianism.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 10:57 AM

    @ktsiwot: the implementation of the language act was already agreed upon and the assembly was brought down because of the DUPs involvement in a corrupt half a billion RHI scam, it’s hardly being unreasonable to ask for AF to step aside until an investigation is carried out, all sides have called for her to step back.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 11:46 AM

    @Mr Phil Officer: On that point I agree, however SF will go back in if the Irish Act is back on track, not other important issues Like Fosters suitability. Economically the North is a basket case running current deficits of more than 20% per year because it is indulged by the rest of the UK through 10 Billion of subsidies. The rest of the UK has now woken up to this in light of the agreement between the Torys and DUP.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 12:43 PM

    @Mr Phil Officer: Emphasis, can I add, I was never taught by a Qualified Teacher either! So much for a State Education! I am now happily Retired!

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    Jun 29th 2017, 3:41 PM

    @Maire: Hey, your parents didn’t have to send you to an Irish-medium school if they didn’t want to! Some people really love being able to learn and use a language that is for some their own native language, and for all of us the language that has shaped our tradition more than any other. I totally understand why someone might not want to be taught through Irish, but that should stop, I don’t think, people who do want to be taught through it from being able to do that.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 4:41 PM

    @Adam Lawson: It was the only Girls School in the Town, no choice, they as shocked as me, nothing could be done about it!

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    Jun 29th 2017, 10:24 AM

    Why are Sinn Féin rejecting including the Northern Scots dialect in the Language Act? Let both minority languages be supported.
    Agree to have Arlene Foster as First Minister pending the outcome of the Cash for Ash inquiry. If she is exonerated then well and good. If she is not then she should vacate the position in favour of another DUP member. The solutions are there. Too much posturing going on.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 10:42 AM

    @Micheal S. O’ Ceilleachair: the implementation of an Irish language act was already negotiated and agreed upon.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 11:01 AM

    @Micheal S. O’ Ceilleachair: Ulster Scots is not a language, its a made-up dialect of English.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 11:40 AM

    @Micheal S. O’ Ceilleachair: so all the sompromises should be made by Sinn Fein is what you’re saying Micheal?
    What about same sex marriage or a bill of rights?should Sinn Fein forget about those as well just to jump into an executive and play second fiddle to the DUP.
    Sinn Fein,SDLP and alliance all opposed a military convenant being introduced in NI but the DUP are going to ram it down our throats with the help of the tories.should Sinn Fein just roll over and accept that too Micheal??

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    Jun 29th 2017, 1:55 PM

    @Martin Doherty: Gerry and Crew are already starting to Roll-Over… (ie) They have already dropped their “Key Demand” that Arlene Foster should step aside etc.,

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    Jun 29th 2017, 2:05 PM

    @Micheal S. O’ Ceilleachair: Ulster Scots is not a language, it’s ridiculous to be pushing that agenda, it only became a thing when grants were being given out to irish language events etc. One side can’t bear to see the other side gain, like little children.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 2:25 PM

    @Jimmy Carlo: “Gerry and Crew are already starting to Roll-Over… (ie) They have already dropped their “Key Demand” that Arlene Foster should step aside etc.,”
    Do you understand how negotiations work? That everyone has stated public positions, and everyone will have to accept something short of all their public conditions being met? And do you understand that they sometimes make public ‘red lines’ on certain issues that they know full well in advance that they can offer up as a concession in return for something that means more to them?

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    Jun 29th 2017, 2:25 PM

    @Jimmy Carlo: Do you understand how negotiations work? That everyone has stated public positions, and everyone will have to accept something short of all their public conditions being met? And do you understand that they sometimes make public ‘red lines’ on certain issues that they know full well in advance that they can offer up as a concession in return for something that means more to them?

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    Jun 29th 2017, 5:58 PM

    @Micheal S. O’ Ceilleachair: perhaps because the language of the native Irish and the Irish Presbyterians was Irish. It was spoken widely among the Presbyterians as there were many converts among them. Many of the Scottish settlers also spoke Scots Gaelic, very close to Irish. The Ulster Scots has never been recognised by language experts as meeting the criteria to be considered a language, and not a dialect. If it ever is then it should be given recognition. But Irish was and is spoken by many, North and South on this island and deserves recognition.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 8:23 PM

    @Mr Phil Officer: It wasn’t. Check who agreed to it.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 8:24 PM

    @Todd: I referred to it as a dialect.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 7:52 AM

    I read that SF would not agree to the Ulster Scot language being part of their Irish Language act. I didn’t read why they were against it, anyone have any ideas? Arlene should swap geographic places with Paisley Jr.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 8:38 AM

    Honetbadger 197. I think the clue is in THE IRISH LANGUAGE ACT.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 8:53 AM

    @ray.farrelly: Ah so the whole equality/ respect/ parity of esteem thing is a one way street? Is Ulster not Irish now? How very inclusive of you.

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    Jun 29th 2017, 9:22 AM

    @ray.farrelly: oh great you’ve read it, please enlighten the rest of us then ?

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    Mute Pádraig Ó Braonáin
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    Jun 29th 2017, 9:49 AM

    @Honeybadger197: Ulster Scot is NOT a language….it was made-up in a lame attempt to invent a “culture” – where there was none.

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    Mute Honeybadger197
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    Jun 29th 2017, 10:00 AM

    @Pádraig Ó Braonáin: Who made it up? What ” lame culture” was invented?

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    Mute Craba
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    Jun 29th 2017, 10:32 AM

    @Pádraig Ó Braonáin:
    All language is made up.
    Take your fist name for example . The name “Patrick” almost certainly came from the latin Patricius, and some form of it arrived in Ireland. The people of Ireland “Gaelicised” it to Pádraig and/ or Pádraic. i.e they made it up.

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    Mute Pádraig Ó Braonáin
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    Jun 29th 2017, 10:59 AM

    @Honeybadger197: Ulster Scots is nothing more than English spoken with a strong accent…in Scotland it was never considered a language.

    But in the north east of Ireland, it was/is deliberately used by some in unionism to undermine the Irish language and to try to emphasis their separate identity, or “culture”……I say let the idiots have it. Lat tham spak at, shar thar Bratish.

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    Mute Pádraig Ó Braonáin
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    Jun 29th 2017, 11:17 AM

    @Craba: That is true, all languages were made up at one time, including latin. Language is needed to communicate of course. But in the case of Ulster Scots, unionism is making-up this silly dialect, and calling it a “language”, to counter or mock an existing language in their desperate search for a separate identity.

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    Mute Craba
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    Jun 29th 2017, 12:40 PM

    @Pádraig Ó Braonáin:
    “But in the case of Ulster Scots, unionism is making-up this silly dialect, and calling it a “language”, to counter or mock an existing language in their desperate search for a separate identity.”
    dúirt sé é gan rian íoróine ina ghlór.

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    Mute Harry Whitehead
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    Jun 29th 2017, 5:31 PM

    @Pádraig Ó Braonáin: You’re mistaken there Pádraig. Until the 1700s, Scots was very much regarded as a sister language to English in Scotland and held a prestige role in law and governance. It most certainly isn’t ‘made up’ – it has evolved in parallel to English since before the Norman invasion. Today it’s recognised (alongside Scottish Gaelic) as a regional language within Scotland under the EU charter on minority languages.

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    Mute Harry Whitehead
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    Jun 29th 2017, 5:32 PM

    Unfortunately the fact that it’s now spoken on a social register with Scots at one end and Scottish English on the other leads many to confuse the two and assume that Scots is merely ‘English with a strong accent’.

    If you’re in doubt however, look up ‘Kennin the Scots Leid’ (a video lecture in Scots about the history of the language) and try to follow it…

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    Mute Niall O'Reilly
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    Jun 29th 2017, 9:04 AM

    To get the ball rolling and both sides to engage positively direct rule from London should also include input from Dublin! Then the square of historyonics is circled!

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    Mute Seamus Og
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    Jun 29th 2017, 1:41 PM

    DUP undoubtedly going for direct rule given they are part of the government now.

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    Mute Jimmy Carlo
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    Jun 29th 2017, 1:52 PM

    @Seamus Og: The DUP don’t really need Stormont now..
    But Gerry and Crew desperately need Stormont.. Otherwise Gerry’s politicians in the six counties will have nowhere to rant and rave .. lol ..

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    Mute Tír Eoghain Gael
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    Jun 29th 2017, 2:27 PM

    @Jimmy Carlo: “But Gerry and Crew desperately need Stormont”
    Really? Here was me thinking that not just did they collapse it, but that they received their largest ever vote on the back of having collapsed it.

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    Mute Jim Corcoran
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    Jun 29th 2017, 3:12 PM

    @Tír Eoghain Gael: They collapsed it for a number of reasons.. One was Martin McGuinness’s health etc., and that Arlene Foster should step aside while an inquiry into the cash-for-ash scandal was investigated … Its now clear their reasons for collapsing the assembly were opportunistic and devoid of any principles.
    Its interesting that Gerry Adams and Crew have dropped their demand that Arlene Foster should Step Aside..
    Right through the recent election Gerry Adams and Crew stated that under No circumstances would they re enter the Stormont Executive unless Arlene stepped aside..

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    Mute Tír Eoghain Gael
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    Jun 29th 2017, 4:09 PM

    @Jim Corcoran: “They collapsed it for a number of reasons.. One was Martin McGuinness’s health etc.”
    Nonsense. Martin McGuinness even in the worst of health, gave Arlene Foster repeated opportunities to save the institutions. To the extent that the party was taking severe heat from their electorate for their over-willingness to stay wedded to the DUP given the DUP’s behavior.

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    Mute Tír Eoghain Gael
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    Jun 29th 2017, 4:10 PM

    @Jim Corcoran:
    “Its now clear their reasons for collapsing the assembly were opportunistic and devoid of any principles.”
    Again, nonsense. SF, as I said above, were widely questioned before Christmas for their silence on the RHI scandal – a time they were suing to attempt to keep the institutions intact. As far as devoid of principles go – I think that is just a bewildering claim. Nationalists were being treated as second class by the DUP in the assembly. SF called them out on it. Martin McGuinness in his speech on the street in Derry the night he retired, broke down in tears and stated that it “broke his heart” to have collapsed the assembly. To suggest he did so on no principle is a ridiculous claim.

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    Mute Tír Eoghain Gael
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    Jun 29th 2017, 4:10 PM

    @Jim Corcoran:
    “Its interesting that Gerry Adams and Crew have dropped their demand that Arlene Foster should Step Aside.”
    Nothing interesting in it. You do realise how negotiations work? Who gets everything they ask for in a negotiation? Nobody. You go in knowing you won’t get all you asked for, and so you make certain public demand in the realisation that you have to will have to “sacrifice” one less important one as a bargaining tool to achieve a bigger target.

    “Right through the recent election Gerry Adams and Crew stated that under No circumstances would they re enter the Stormont Executive unless Arlene stepped aside..”
    As above. Most nationalists would happily accept a stepping back from that position in return for an Irish Language Act – a fact SF will have been well away of. The ‘no Arlene as first minister’ line will have been nothing more than a false ‘red line’ that they would have fully prepared and expecting to sacrifice in their fight for the language act. It’s called tactics.

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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Jun 29th 2017, 5:55 PM

    @Tír Eoghain Gael: What good is having the largest vote if you don’t exercise a voice to support the mandate. It just shows how negative Sinn Fein are towards the future of Northern Ireland and certainly doesn’t get much traction on this part of the island. You are behaving like a bunch of sheep….baaaaaa

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    Mute Scundered
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    Jun 29th 2017, 8:31 PM

    @Tír Eoghain Gael: lol, It’s no surprise their voters mostly come from the areas with the poorest education standards. They voted for a damp squib.

    Ever stop and wonder why the smart folks don’t vote for them?

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    Mute Tír Eoghain Gael
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    Jun 29th 2017, 11:14 PM

    @Scundered: On 14th June you posted a comment accusing me ‘always speaking in a derogatory fashion about protestants’. I have repeatedly asked you to either post even one single quote from me with the link, or to retract that comment. In fact this is the second time today that I’ve challenged you on this. Are you finally going to respond with the evidence or a retraction; or are you going to run and hide like a coward once again?

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    Mute Jimmy Carlo
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    Jun 29th 2017, 1:48 PM

    Gerry Adams and Crew… live (and thrive ) on Perpetual “Chaos” ..
    And their Counterparts in the DUP are no better…
    Watch as these Political Attention Seekers pull an agreement out at the last minute ?..
    And then they will want Congratulations and Claps on the Back for their efforts..
    Its the same bulls**te with the two of them ‘ Year in … Year out ‘..

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    Mute John Scott
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    Jun 29th 2017, 5:37 PM

    Stop paying them if thy don’t want to represent the people who voted for them end of. Where else wood you get six months pay at such an important time with Brexit just shows really an truly none of them care about the people they represent well are supposed to any way

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    Mute @mdmak33
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    Jun 29th 2017, 4:28 PM

    What are the obstacles, surely the public are entitled to know.this is what happens in the ROI,all behind closed doors and look at the state it’s in with corruption, white collar crime.

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