We need your help now
Support from readers like you keeps The Journal open.
You are visiting us because we have something you value. Independent, unbiased news that tells the truth. Advertising revenue goes some way to support our mission, but this year it has not been enough.
If you've seen value in our reporting, please contribute what you can, so we can continue to produce accurate and meaningful journalism. For everyone who needs it.
Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
By continuing, you are indicating that you accept our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.
YESTERDAY’S PUBLICATION OF the recommendations of the Citizens’ Assembly on the Eighth Amendment included a further five ‘ancillary’ recommendations.
Those suggestions were included in the report specifically to represent the concerns of the 99 members of the Assembly that “wider policy issues” concerning the Eighth be taken into consideration, not just legal changes.
The relevant concerns were expressed by 74 of the members present at the end of the Assembly’s meetings on Sunday 23 April via a ‘Member Reflective Exercise’ – similar to the ‘any further opinions’ section found at the end of many surveys.
The five further recommendations were each arrived at via consensus of the members who responded – and are a representation of the Assembly members’ own views, as opposed to the way in which they voted on the Assembly’s final ballots.
Two further recommendations (concerning the decriminalisation of abortion and the recognition of female reproductive rights) were not made as consensus was not deemed to have been reached.
All 74 of the responses are included in Appendix B of the report. The following are just some of them:
Recommendation One – Improvements should be made in sexual health and relationship education
“A comprehensive sexual education programme needs to be implemented in schools.” [Response 21]
When people can openly and freely discuss all of these difficult issues, with informed minds, this country will be better for it. Specially trained (and comprehensively) teachers from DoE/HSE should operate nationwide and visit secondary schools 2-3 times during the course of secondary education, at third level and operate info distribution for all. [Response 23]
“I would like to see investment in sex education, empowering our girls and boys on issues around consent, and protection.” [Response 31]
Recommendation Two – Improved access to reproductive healthcare should be available to all women – including termination of pregnancy if required
“In 2009/2010 the US state of Colorado introduced a free birth control programme. Over a five-year period this led to a 42% fall in abortions.” [Response 15]
Contraception should be free. [Response 22]
“New regulatory framework should be put in place to make sure women have equal and unimpeded access to the highest standard of reproductive health care, including abortion.” [Response 45]
To provide free after care for anyone who has had an abortion – to destigmatise it, remove the “fear”. [Response 66]
Recommendation Three – All women should have access to the same standard of obstetrical care
“I would like for some real reference to be made to the serious need for assistance to be given to the socially disadvantaged either due to poverty or because of being non citizens who have crisis pregnancies.” [Response 28]
That all women have access to the same standard of obstetrical care and to include early scanning and testing. [Response 50]
Cianan Brennan / TwitterThe #CitizensAssembly has published five additional recommendations regarding the Eighth Amendment https://t.co/Kxz9QAmKFg pic.twitter.com/N5a6JpaGN6
— Cianan Brennan (@ciananbrennan) June 29, 2017
“State funded access should be available to gynaecological care for all pregnant women.” [Response 39]
Equal access to proper screening for all women regardless of economic or geographical status. [Response 33]
Recommendation Four – Improvements should be made to counselling and support facilities for pregnant women
“Whether a female has/hasn’t an abortion, this country should take the stance of supporting/aiding such a person regardless of their circumstances.” [Response 23]
Proper counselling services to be accessible to all women before/after decisions are made. [Response 33]
“Due to the stigma of termination in Ireland, free counselling should be provided before and especially after.” [Response 36]
Recommendation Five – Further consideration should be given as to who will fund and carry out terminations in Ireland
“Termination services should be publicly funded and located within (ease of access for women) in each county.” [Response 21]
I would like to recommend that they discuss the financial aspects of a termination. Who is going to pay? How much? Will it be covered on a medical card or will people be means tested etc. Will there be clinics in Ireland to terminate or will people still have to travel to England? [Response 11]
“I wish to have finance included in the recommendations. Who will fund the procedures if they are needed.” [Response 12]
“I would like to make suggestion of putting the proposal to the HSE/Government of providing all healthcare connected with the termination of pregnancy to be free of charge.” [Response 14]
Note: Consensus was not reached on the following responses
On the decriminalisation of abortion and the autonomy of women
“Decriminalise abortion in Ireland.” [Response 29]
Abortion should be decriminalised. [Response 45]
“I would like to see something put in place that specifically recognises each citizen’s right to reproductive autonomy. The unborn being considered a citizen is a very strange and unusual circumstance that is unique to Ireland as far as I am aware.” [Response 6]
I would like the Oireachtas to consider the language used and to recognise the necessity of including terminology that expressly details self autonomy of the female reproductive system as it will then demonstrate the respect it has for women in Irish society. [Response 17]
“Abortion medically up to 12 weeks should be available at a low cost to all women in Ireland.” [Response 24]
And others…
“I would also like it to be noted that many citizens, myself included, did not want to be in a position where they decided when a termination was justified for a woman and believe that this is a medical and not a political issue, but there was no opportunity to express this on a ballot.” [Response 1]
I feel that the general public don’t understand that repeal means leaving it to the government to do about legalising abortion. Amend seems to me that we, the public, have more control over what changes are made. [Response 47]
This has been a very difficult topic. We have tried to deal with it compassionately. There should be no victory rolls by pro-choice or doom and gloom by pro-life. [Response 66]
“My fear after the voting of this weekend is the complete lack of empathy for the unborn baby.” [Response 55]
“The Oireachtas Committee should read all documentation and watch all presentations/Q&As to ensure they are as informed as the members are. Test them! We don’t trust them.” [Response 20]
Given that we were given a deadline for our work they (the Oireachtas) must be urged to act in a timely fashion. [Response 9]
“National Maternity services should not be led by religious orders” [Response 13, and many others]
It’s extremely important that the Oireachtas move to call a referendum as soon as possible. [Response 24]
“It seems that there is now no provision for the protection of the unborn. The focus has shifted totally to termination of pregnancy and I find this extremely worrying and in conflict with the overall meaning of our constitution. We have also had problems during this last weekend with lobbyist huddles.” [Response 37]
The Oireachtas should move to liberalise abortion, and allow for the women of Ireland to feel genuinely cherished by their own nation. [Response 73]
And finally
“It has been mentally tiring. I will be glad to move onto the next topic.” [Response 58]
I recommend that silly questions should not be justified. [Response 5]
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
Just to Quote the pro choice lobby. ‘If you don’t want abortion, don’t have one’. So why should I still pay for it?
Another one ‘ Woman’s choice Woman’s body’ again so why should I have to pay for it.
Fatal foetal abnormality , by all means cover it under the woman and child scheme through tax. No problem with that.
But why should I pay for other people’s lifestyle choices?
@Brendan Hughes: You already do
@Brendan Hughes: And again, the fallacy of “why should I pay fior it”, I don’t smoke, so why should I pay for a smoker’s treatment for lung cancer, oir an alcoholic’s treatment for liver zirhossis?
@Brendan Hughes: You have to be a TROLL comparing lifestyle choices to a woman have fatal foetal abnormalities
@Brendan Hughes: I apologize still waking didn’t read comment right.
@Brendan Hughes: Everybody that ends up in hospital to large extent is because of lifestyle choices. No body plans on being sick.
@Celtic_Horizon: having a child is a lifestyle choice, planned or unplanned. Some people choose not to have children, again lifestyle choice. Smoking is a poor example. The gov.t makes so much money off it by tax.
@Brendan Hughes: im confused why those who choose cant pay for their own abortion. Or least based on your means.
@Brendan Hughes: Whatever about the safe and legal part, it’s the free bit I have a problem with. Why should the rest of the country pay for your abortion an contraception? Does personal responsibility not exist anymore? If you can’t afford contraception, or an abortion, you probably shouldn’t be having intercourse. Getting everything handed to you on a platter, with no hint of being a responsible adult required, actually doesn’t help young women to be independent, autonomous and responsible individuals. Bring in abortion if it’s what the people want, but people need to pay for their own mistakes. Obviously this should not be the case for medically necessary abortions, including FFA.
@Shawn O’Ceallaghan: the only reason why of us are here after millions of years of evolution is because we reproduce, which is in general not what one would consider a lifestyle choice like jogging or smoking, but a natural process. Unfortunately, sometimes that natural process causes distress, either carrying a FFA to term, or a disphoria due to outside conditions. Terminations are there to humanely address those disorders, not just for a fun, lifestyle choice.
@Gulliver Foyle: it also causes inconvenience – changed my mind I don’t want the baby, father has done a runner don’t want a baby – I’ll never lose the weight after birth don’t want the baby – didn’t use protection and could do without this baby. Should these convenience abortions, the vast majority of abortions in the US incidentally, be funded by Joe taxpayer, especially if he/she is steadfastly against the ending of life, particularly for not other reason than it is convenient?
@Brendan Hughes: in the real world you don’t get to pick where every cent of your tax goes. Such a selfish attitude…
@Brendan Hughes: Why should I pay for your kids to go to school??
@Rob Cahill: because when you are ollder you will need young educated people to provide services? Especially as you as having no children will have money in your pocket having not spent it on educating children.
@Brendan Hughes: because you share the benefits of our society.
@Brendan Hughes: if cost is a concern, I can only guess that an abortion would be much cheaper than 18 years of child benefit, education costs, etc on taxpayers.
@Sundalic: sure just have a government loan paying back 20 a week and a Ryanair voucher. That solves the cost issue.
@:-): Why should the rest of the country pay if you’ve a heartattack? You’ll pay if it’s what the country decides. It’s like going I’m not paying your insurance because people keep reversing into poles because you don’t reverse into poles.
@Brendan Hughes: To be honest that is a ridiculous comment to make. Maybe you don’t have kids, but you’re still helping to finance education with your taxes. It’s funded by taxation the same as medical procedures are. The HSE is funded by taxation, and just because you will never be in the position of needing a certain medical procedure doesn’t mean you pay less tax.
@Meekus: Yes I suspect I probably will end up paying, if indeed that is what is decided. It doesn’t mean I have to like the situation, or keep my opinions quiet. If young women are content with being entirely dependent on the income of others, and having no tangible claim to the old “strong, independent, responsible adult” feminist motto, then leave them to it. Taxpayer funded degeneracy is all it will ever be, no matter what way you paint it.
@Shawn O’Ceallaghan: If you choose to smoke, why can’t you pay for your own chemo?
@Brendan Hughes: why do you consider a termination a lifestyle choice? Explain how it is a lifestyle choice? It’s insane to call abortion a lifestyle choice, like, ” I choose to smoke cigarettes” or “I choose to be a vegetarian”.
Typical judgmental response from someone who could never know what it means to actually face an unwanted pregnancy as a result of failed contraception (yes, it happens all the time) or rape (yes, unfortunately that’s common too). Your lack of compassion and unwillingness to acknowledge that life is not black and white, THAT’S a lifestyle choice. I’m sure in the past my taxes have contributed to something you use. If that’s your logic, then you to apply to everyone for everything. And let’s see how far it’ll get you.
@:-): you gave your inherent misogyny away when you condescendingly implied that abortion, pregnancy, and parenthood are all somehow means to enlighten frivolous girls, show them the real stuff of life, and help them become “independent adults”. Like the notion of the colonizers putting manners on “the savages” by… colonizing them. By the way, it takes two to tango. Do you also propose that that’s how we teach rapists to “behave themselves”? Or sexual partners who are not willing or interested in becoming parents? No abortion for you young lady, I need your uterus and your life to teach this scalliwag how a proper gentleman behaves.
Please.
@Sean @114: Wow! You really hate women don’t you.
@:-): Have you considered that the cost of an abortion is going to be much less than the benefits the child will take from the system over a lifetime.
@DaisyChainsaw: only in your head Daisy. I married one, am a son to one and have two beautiful daughters. Are you Nell from Derry by any chance? The absolute bitterness that you spout out against men is a sight to behold. You are the epitome of the aggressive pro abortion lobby. Nasty.
@B Collins: Oh my word, someone has read the Handmaids tale!! Calm down lady. You can’t expect people to be pleased about the fact that they have to pay for promiscuous irresponsible women to abort whenever suits them. Many people find the concept of killing infants unpalatable, expecting them to pay for it too is asking a bit much.
Only promiscuous irresponsible women then?So only women are to blame for unwanted pregnancy .Please drag yourself by your bleeding knuckles into this century. Women don’t self-impregnate.
@:-): Only promiscuous irresponsible women are to blame for unwanted pregnancy? Please drag yourself by your bleeding knuckles into this century. Women don’t self-impregnate.
This Assembly does nor represent the ordinary Country People. It is of no consequence , a kind of a joke. We still don’t know who picked the members or how they were picked. Hopefully the Citizens of Ireland will get to vote and reject everything that they recommend. It probably cost an arm and a leg also, just like every other report that was ever commissioned in this country.
@Eugene Comaskey: Red C Research and Marketing Ltd were engaged to select the 99 citizen members, and 99 substitutes, of the Assembly. https://www.citizensassembly.ie/en/About-the-Citizens-Assembly/Who-are-the-Members/Members-29-June-2017.pdf this is a list of the members of the assembly. Totally agree that a referendum is the only way to answer this issue, but that’s probably the only thing we agree on.
@Eugene Comaskey: It represents this ordinary country person. What it doesn’t represent is backward antichoicers who hate women.
Wouldn’t it make better sense to have all tablet / iud and injection contraception free ?
@Lily: Don’t be talking sense now Lily, it does’nt go down too well here.
@Lily:
Of course it would make sense, but not better sense. There would still be need for abortion legislation.
I detest that that word “reproductive “. It always makes me think of biology and the animal kingdom. Animals have their dignity but humans have souls. I sadly don’t have children. If women do not want their unborn babies there are lots of us who would dearly love to adopt them.
I miss being a mother and a grandmother.
@Renee Barrett: Souls, really? we have opposable thumbs, and some of us have strange willingness to believe overtly emotive claims in opposition of all scientific evidence, that’s what separates us. Adoption is an already existing option that does not address the issues of fatal fetal abnormalities, incest or the physical and mental well being of a pregnant woman.
@Renee Barrett: There’s thousands of children in care looking to be adopted. Start there.
@DaisyChainsaw: for every child to be adopted in Ireland, there are ten couples. That’s why they’re going abroad to adopt.
@Renee Barrett: Without trying to sound harsh but are you saying a woman who is raped, or finds out she is pregnant because of a failed contraception or was in a relationship and the man walked away they should just have to suck it up, have the baby to provide babies for people like you who cant have kids? Really? How is that going to solve anything?
@RG Law:
What are the actual figures? Like, exactly how many couple are looking to adopt, how many change their minds, how many get to adopt and how many are waiting how long?
Can I get a refund paid by the state for my vasectomy?
Submit an application and let us know how you get on.
Responsible is not free. There is a price to pay for it.
Headline just a tad Daily Mail there when you read the article.
I’ve said it before & I’ll say it again. When… not if, when it becomes available here, it won’t be compulsary so if you don’t want one, don’t get one.
@Keith McDonagh: that’s disingenuous of you. There’s nothing stopping robbing, raping and killing if you afoot can the choice mantra like that. Do whatever you want to yourself, but once it impacts on someone else there are consequences. These are human beings, unborn and at early stages of development. The question is whether we value them.
We elect and pay handsomely a citizens assembly. It is called Dáil Éireann. But because they are afraid of the Irish People. They appoint a group of ‘randomers’ to do their job. Where else would you see this kind of Pseudo Democracy
Biggest con job foisted on the Irish public since the Anglo bail out.
@Tommy Browne: stats for that one Tommy, or did you find it where Drummer found his figures?
People go on about who these 99 are.
I have an idea. Hear me out how about every community of let’s say 70-100,000 people vote to elect a few people each.to make up the 100. You know what. Make it 158 while were at it. And let them decided what should be done…. Oh wait
Woman’s reproductive control, Take the pill, use the coil, use a cap, use the rhythm method. Make sure the man wears a condom and I think there’s an implant she can get if she’s forgetful . If all this fails she can get the morning after pill. I believe she can get this for several days. At present she can go to England for an abortion
I don’t begrudge women these choices. BUT
What reproductive control does a man have? Wear a condom and hope it doesn’t brake. If the condom doesn’t work the woman will decide whether he becomes a father or not. The Assembly were all for equality weren’t they. THEY WERE SO INTERESTED IN EQUALITY THAT WHILE THEY WANTED EVERYTHING FREE FOR WOMEN .THEY DIDN’T EVEN CONSIDER FREE CONDOMS FOR MEN.
have your say