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FOLLOWING A LENGTHY trial that lasted eight weeks and then jury deliberations of just a few hours, the six Jobstown defendants have been found not guilty of the false imprisonment of the former Tánaiste, Joan Burton, and her adviser, Karen O’Connell.
Before considering the outcome and its wider implications, it is worth congratulating the real heroes in this matter: the members of the jury who put their professional and personal lives on hold for many days to fulfil their civic duty. Judge Melanie Greally was right to commend them for their “exemplary” service and their “extreme bravery and courage.”
The charges against the six men, including Solidarity TD Paul Murphy, arose out of one of a number of large protests over Irish Water that occurred on a regular basis from 2013 to 2015. This demonstration was particularly ugly.
Vile and misogynistic language was directed at Ms Burton and Ms O’Connell, who were trapped in their car for some time and professed to being terrified on the day. Deputy Murphy, meanwhile, was in possession of a megaphone and called for a “democratic vote” to let the car depart, which the majority of the crowd surrounding the car rejected – his contrary urgings notwithstanding.
Chaotic and frenzied
It would be almost impossible for any outsider, who was unaware of the context and unfamiliar with the protagonists, not to be disturbed after seeing a video of these events. It was chaotic and frenzied. That said, the jury was able to swiftly determine that the conduct on display did not rise to the level of false imprisonment, ie, the total (key word) restraint or deprivation of a person’s liberty through an intentional or reckless act.
In hindsight, the prosecution overcharged the defendants and likely could have garnered a conviction on a lesser charge(s). Moreover, there were issues as to the credibility of Garda witnesses and there was probably no need to have arrested the defendants at their homes early in the morning in what have been termed “dawn raids.”
Leaving aside the legalities, the bigger question is whether what took place in Jobstown on that day is legitimate protest? There is a clear division of opinion in this country – manifested by the reaction to the verdict on Twitter – as to its appropriateness. Deputy Murphy and his supporters say theirs was a sit-down protest, akin to what civil rights marchers in the American south or Northern Ireland did in the 1960s and 1970s.
Not a peaceful, legitimate protest
Furthermore, speaking to Sharon Ní Bheoláin on the RTÉ Six One News after his acquittal, Deputy Murphy, though disavowing the name calling and throwing of projectiles in Jobstown, stated that he had “no regrets”; that there was a “severe danger of it [peaceful, legitimate protest] being criminalised”; that the trial had happened because “the political establishment were scared” of their movement; and that “this [the trial] was a pre-emptive strike against the left.”
Others – this writer included – have a very different take to the Dublin South-West TD. What unfolded on 15 November 2014 was not a peaceful, legitimate protest. Frightening and intimidating two women is not peaceful. A guilty finding in the Jobstown case, even though it might have been legally incorrect, would not have effectively criminalised the act of protesting because this is not what peaceful, legitimate protest looks like.
And to insist that the prosecution was undertaken either because of politicians’ apprehension of the anti-water charges brigades or in order to kill off the potential for the emergence of an Irish Podemos or Syriza is laughable.
Unsettling that an elected representative played a part in this
From this perspective, it is profoundly unsettling that an elected representative could play a part in these activities, show a lack of respect for longstanding conventions of the trial process in repeated, contemporaneous #JobstownNotGuilty social media posts, and then be so alternatively unrepentant and conspiratorial in the aftermath.
In a broader sense, however, there is a not insignificant constituency in Ireland – a nation whose economic recovery is heralded globally and is now ranked 11th in the world when it comes to social progress by one measure – that is still frustrated and pessimistic enough to endorse the policies and methods of those who want to tear down institutions, rather than endeavour to ameliorate the problems the organs of the state undeniably can perpetuate. And the “establishment” is not blameless in this regard.
Many of the rejoinders in certain quarters to the incident in Jobstown were class-based and revealed little sympathy for those trapped by poverty and myriad additional, unenviable circumstances. Paul Murphy and other politicians of the hard left, to their credit, have been more responsive in some ways to the concerns of marginalised and disadvantaged people in this country than traditional political parties.
At the same time, they point to an “establishment” sponsored bailout of bankers, to hideously low rates of taxes paid by American multinationals and to the capacity of wealthy people here to avoid contributing their fair share to the government coffers. Whatever its obvious limitations, this messaging has a patent appeal for men and women who are struggling constantly.
Inciting hatred
The ongoing rebuttal from the “establishment” is that Deputy Murphy, et al make unrealistic promises based on a failed ideology that can never be kept, play on people’s worst fears, incite hatred and would inevitably make things far worse for us all if they ever achieved electoral success. Yet these truisms won’t solve the conundrum of inequality.
The bottom line is that irreconcilables are not amenable to being reconciled. If we’re being perfectly honest, our own attitudes to the whole Jobstown affair are likely, at least in part, a reflection of that reality.
Larry Donnelly is a Boston attorney, a Law Lecturer at NUI Galway and a political columnist with TheJounal.ie and IrishCentral.com.
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Not one word was mentioned about the filthy name calling of the Gardai who have a duty to protect us all and do so.Why have you not mentioned one single comment about this.I heard the abuse on videos from TV and you tube and it was disgusting.We must have respect for the law.this was mob rule at it’s best.tgerrs no other explanation.Paul Murphy should be ashamed of himself.
@gerry fallon: respect for gardai with all the stuff coming out about them lately wake up man for God sake
@gerry fallon: lost respect for that lying self serving organisation years ago, you do no a number of them where caught lying again
@gerry fallon: respect for the law indeed Gerry even when they are found to be a collection of liars under oath in that most sacred of places – court! Respect for the law is not the issue. Justice was served despite ‘the law’ & the simple truth is people like yourself don’t give a s**t about justice as long as it’s seen to be done in favour of your position.
@Noel: ok Noel.So you condone a female garda being called disgusting names and being person ally threatened do you?
And when you’re in a spot of bother like a road accident or you’re house being broken into I assume you will not contact the gardai yeah?
Just want to be clear where you stand Noel ok.
Maybe you can contact the Tallaght six for help
the thugs were exposed for exactly what they are. should gardai have to take such abuse from such riff raff, its truly disgraceful
@gerry fallon:
Haha. You mean the poor gardai like the ones on the Shell protest threatening to rape a female protester in the back of the Paddy Wagon on their way to a feed of drink supplied by Shell.
Those poor victims?
@gerry fallon: fool
can the cops file charges for the abuse?
Whats worse.. name calling or lying?
@Jack Crabbe: Jack the faceless troll hiding behind a fictitious name.Jack with no balls.
@gerry fallon: Red thumb
@gerry fallon: oh so the jury got it wrong then???
We should all listen to you???
You were there???
@gerry fallon: you’re a joke, commenting about people respecting the law. What does the law say about the verdict of a jury? Why don’t you respect that? What does it say about perjury? Whose job is it to prevent situations like this? Whose job is it to de-esculate? Of they had done their jobs right they wouldn’t have had to misremember events in court.
@gerry fallon: 180 gardai committed perjury which is a criminal offence any comment on that gerry ? will the dpp do the right thing and charge them or do you think that’s OK? imagine the judge having to tell the jury to disregard their evidence absolutely shameful organisation, and these liars are supposed to be educated haha.
@Martin Ryan: It is very difficult to prove perjury as there is no prohibition on perjury on the statute books here. Gardai can lie under oath after swearing to tell the truth while holding a bible, like all 180 of them did at the trial, and not be disciplined for doing so.
@Frank Cauldhame: well summed. Didn’t know that. Found this on the matter, Gardaí even get a mention http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/the-haphazard-state-of-perjury-law-1.357008
@gerry fallon: would these be the same Gardaí who testified to allegations that were contradicted by video evidence? Yeah, sure, worthy of respect if you think dishonesty is a good thing
@james connolly: will the Gardaí be prosecuted for perjury? Did they say she was trapped when all they had to do was reverse?
@gerry fallon: no respect whatsoever that day ,Paul Murphy is just jumping on the bandwagon . There is no way he would stand for it if one of his family members or his mother was treated the same way by those yobs that day . The sad thing is they’ve all looked back on those videos thinking that they are heros of the day . Disgraceful behaviour and the kids sitting in prams that do , don’t stand a chance in life if parents are carrying on like that .
@Mark DeFriest: so you prefer to tar every one with the same brush instead of the individuals that were involved ?
@gerry fallon: look like you are one of Gardai who planted the fake evidence against Jobstown six……. Congratulations, welcome to liar club!
@gerry fallon: Are you for real? , respect is earned, there has always been a “them and us” attitude by the guards in working class areas , not to mention there reaction at any left wing or republican protest , I assume you would not have been in a position at any time in your life to have experienced this .
@Suzie Sunshine:
How do you figure that Paul Murphy is jumping on the bandwagon????
Silly comment considering he was one of the six that were exonerated !!!
He is part of that so called “bandwagon”. Have you not been following this story?
@gerry fallon: sometimes people have to visit the real world. Sometimes people know the dangers of going into an area that is hostile and avoid it like the plague. Self preservation beats arrogance any day.
@Suzie Sunshine: don’t stand a chance with small minded people like U around
@james connolly: shouldn’t have to take abuse from the riff raff now if it was coming from the middle class..
@Noel: It is very straight forward Noel. You can vehemently disagree with them, have issues with them etc but it does not entitle you to behave like a thug
@Suzie Sunshine: such a sad comment!
@gerry fallon: A spontaneous protest that Paul Murphy had no hand act or part in organising. That was accepted in court. Do you accept it ??.
Still desperately trying to find the 6 defendants guilty even though cleared of the charge. Really – any charge would do for you it seems. Why not ask a bigger question? Why did so many Gardai under oath lie & give false evidence? No problem with that. Had there not been video evidence of the events the 6 would most likely have been falsely convicted – that’s a fact unlike the nonsense presented in your synopsis.
@Setrakian: the biggest hole in this opinions point is that every week prior to this, Enda Kenny and even Michael D. we regularly protested against in their cars at every one of the envelope opening events they turned up to. Questions arise about why the dpp and gardai choose this event to be the one they decided to lock down and bring to court. If you’re looking for sexism, compare those events rather than construct a narrative. As a law lecturer, one would expect a more rational approach rather than a political one.
@Setrakian: I’m entitled to my opinion ok.
You have your views and I have mine.
Don’t get personal.
@Setrakian: earlier this year we heard that guards wanted a law introduced to stop themselves being videoed but videos are so handy for figuring out what actually happened rather than relying on flawed or partisan recollections. I’m no fan of Paul Murphy but the whole trial was a joke and should never have happened. Had they put Joan in the boot of the car and driven off with her there might have been a case.
@Gulliver Foyle: totally agree with you but those questions will never be answered as one thing FG & their friends are not is accountable in any way.
@Setrakian: Because that’s what police do the world over. Never, ever believe a word that comes out of the mouth of any officer above the rank of sergeant, unless independently corroborated. If more than two officers of a lower rank give an identical story, assume it has been fed to them.
@gerry fallon: I don’t see how he got personal? He just argued against what the author said.
Well sure it’s depends how you define peaceful. To the yobs from jobstown who the posh boy Paul Murphy represents the very fact that they didn’t seriously injure or even kill the two women meant that it probably was peaceful. It all relative.
@mickmc: exactly, f’ing yobs.
@mickmc: stupid comment worst assault on the day was a water ballon which was wrong
Garda too often is just a draconian tool, thugs, with a uniform and plausible deniability.
@bmul: And that’s thanks to the good work of the guards. I love to know who the members of the jury were because they have a lot to answer for. If I was a member it certainly wouldn’t have being a unanimous verdict.
What would you do if you knew the members of the jury?
@Dan: Ask them how they came to such a conclusion.
@bmul: not a stupid comment at all .. he’s right .. that’s the mentality of it .. if you came across a gang screaming and abusing 2 women like that on a night out . You’d be thinking differently. ..
@mickmc: Well you werent a member of the jury. You didnt hear the evidence.
@Suzie Sunshine: certainly Suze, but this wasn’t a random woman, she was elected as a Labour TD and she sold them all down the river. I don’t Co done violence but when people betray you to the degree she did then emotions run high. As for her fear for her life as she read a newspaper surrounded by Gardaí who only had to reverse out of the situation…..
@Noirin Kavanagh: you are condoning it . . There’s no need for anybody to be treated they way the were that day ..
@bmul: it was a water “bomb” actually. Get your facts right.
@mickmc : this is how they came to their conclusion..”The jurors are charged with the responsibility of deciding whether, on the facts of the case, a person is guilty or not guilty of the offence for which he or she has been charged. “
What about gardai who could not stand over their writing statements in court 3 in total including a superintendent should never have bought to court by DPP Burton wasn’t even welcome at graduating in jobstown on that sat morning anyway right decision by jury well done to them
I don’t remember this much kerfuffle by the media when Mary Harney got a bucket of paint over her head some years back. Could it be that vested interests are only angry at loosing the golden goose(Water) than their pretence at being horrified that two women got delayed for a bit :-) Me thinks so!
@TonyC: Was the person that threw the paint not prosecuted??
@Finian Gardner: yes
When it’s white collar crime crime criminals walking free from the court due to a technicality we’re told that we have to respect the findings of the court and move on. Here after a mammoth court case with a jury , the press can’t except the juries vindication of the six men and write about them as if they were guilty . The media here then wonder why people are turning away from mainstream news outlets.
Inquiry needed to find out why such a campaign to have 6 men wrongly stitched up was allowed to be financed by the tax payer. If the money was readily available to the DUP , then I’m sure the money should easily be available for an inquiry as to those millions squandered with lies and deceit as proven. ….
@Willy Malone: DPP..
Government ruled out an inquiry..
Surprise surprise….
@Willy Malone:
You’re having right crack there all by yourself Wally.
The right to protest is part of who and what we are as a society.
The verdict in this case was the correct one but unfortunately it’s now legitimised the cowardly behaviour of thugs who without question were not peacefully protesting.
Paul Murphy is a self serving media junky who did intimidate 2 women and supported the behaviour of thugs.
Strangely enough Wally you seem content in supporting this cowardly behaviour too.
@Duncan:
Lies and deceit to have men locked up are ok so Dunc ! False imprisonment can carry a life sentence. If any of these men were guilty of a charge , surely that would be a public disorder charge? Why the jumped up charge ? Maybe , just maybe , to silence those speaking out against the austerity measures to keep elitism and the status quo in place at the expense of societies weakest ! Sorry my opinion upsets you Dunc
@Willy Malone:
Because after six months it was too late to charge them with public order offences so they decided to go for the more serious charge of false imprisonment which in my opinion was a mistake.
@Aine O Connor: if they’d gone with the lesser charges they would’ve all been found guilty. .
@Willy Malone: there was an enquiry, a court case. They got away with it. Paul Murphy got free legal aid despite his huge salary. What more do they want?
John Mulligan. They got away with nothing. They were found NOT GUILTY
@Suzie Sunshine: Found guilty based on what evidence? Can you actually hear yourself Suzie? Evidence was fabricated and lies told by a lot of people on the prosecution. Did you even follow the trial?
@John Mulligan: everybody is entitled to free legal aid in a criminal prosecution.
@Willy Malone:
Wally if you slow down and read my comment before you go off on your crazy talk you’ll see that I agree ( strangely enough ) with you. They should have got off and did get off on the what they were accused of.
But……..
They did behave despicably and this behaviour will become the bench mark for peaceful protests, which this was not.
Wind in your neck petals, and debate like an adult.
@Willy Malone: thank god
@Duncan: your comment is totally incorrect
Irish water is dead in the water and the jobstown 6 and free .The laoubor party is finished in Tallaght . Happy days all round.
@Eoin: I think you’ll find iw is alive and well Eoin, millions still being wasted on it and the meter program is still a go. And the charges? Rest assured they’re on the way back too, it’s only a matter of time.
@William Clay:
Good. Water metering is the only way to measure how much water has been used.
Charging according to use seems entirely fair to me..
Here we go.. *we already pay*,
The govt should have announced no more public money to be used for water on the 1st round of water bills, and the funds released to be spent 100% on health.
Buster VL. You and your ilk would have water privatised. Now fcuk off.
@Buster VL: Water metering was only being applied to a small percentage of the population, mostly houses in urban areas (mainly Dublin & commuter belt), not apartments, few rural; where is the fairness in that?
@Eoin: she walked via a food bank and no one seems to care what was a food bank doing in Tallaght. Her own language not too good
JobstownNotGuilty
@Tony Maguire: they were never guilty of false imprisonment, they are however guilty of numerous public order offences. Why they chose such an extreme charge is beyond belief.
The head of the DPP’s Directing Division, is one Elizabeth Howlin, niece of Labour Party leader Brendan Howlin.
Directing Division consists of barristers and solicitors who examine criminal investigation files and decide whether or not a prosecution should be taken.
@Brendan McGill: my understanding is that is incorrect (being a niece of BH)
@Finian Gardner: I got bitten by fake news there. I’ll admit, I was wrong. :-|
The key question is
Why did they not just reverse??
@Jonathan Yeo: If a group of male relatives and friends could have been assembled to retrieve the two women from Murphy and his gang this would have been sorted. The police showed commendable restraint and control.
@Tom Newnewman: The evidence in the case shows that the police were incompetent and failed in their duty to manage and control the situation. Are you wilfully ignorant or just stupid?
A bs article trying to deflect from the fact that so many Gardai lied under oath, which unless i am mistaken is perjury which is a crime.
To be fair imo they were probably instructed to lie in the hope that these people would be convicted and in turn put people off from protesting. How can anybody have any trust in the gardai or politicians now?
Not guilty on all accounts Larry .
@Patrick Weldon: they were acquitted of the charges presented, They were Not judged to be Not Guilty .
AlanH-AFC. Did the jury say acquitted of all charges. Or not guilty of all charges? Just wondering like??
@ray.farrelly: they recommend an Acquittal as the state did not prove their case.
AlanH- AFC. So they were found not guilty. Just as I thought.
Sorry Larry but I can’t take you or any of your opinion pieces seriously after your “Trump had a chance and he blew it. Why Hillary will be the next POTUS” article.
@Dj: Larry’s coverage of the US elections was dreadful. He’s one of those ‘Democrats’ who believes the Sanders phenomenon has to be quelled and failed to realise why much of the electorate despised Hillary Clinton. It’s because of people like him that Trump is president.
Make no mistake about it, this establishment stitch up had all the hallmarks of the Birmingham 6 and the Guildford 4. Thank God the jury kept their reason and didn’t fall for it.
Fine Gael should be counting their lucky stars these men weren’t sent down for a crime they never committed or the streets of Ireland would have been turned into a battlefield.
#JusticeForJobstown6.
@Mark DeFriest: Lol.
@Mark DeFriest: PMSL
@Mark DeFriest:
Comparing this to the guilford 4 is despicable.
Same mindset.
@Mark DeFriest: idiot
@Mark DeFriest: so your comparing a champagne socialist and other tools as the Birmingham Six , deluded
@Mark DeFriest: battlefield….ah that’s priceless
@Mark DeFriest: I agree, they should never have been convicted and delighted it shows up the evident corruption within the Gardai and state. However, to compare them to the Birmingham 6 and Guildford 4 is an insult to these brave men. These men really suffered, doing time in prison, while a few protesters led by their over_privileged guru are hardly in the same league
@Mark DeFriest: get a life ffs. Birmingham six versus six wasters in tallaght? You’re having a laugh!
@Stephen Coveney: why, exactly? A young boy already has a conviction hanging over him for something the jury found didn’t happen. Had they been convicted it would have been a miscarriage of justice. The Guildford Four were innocent and lost years of their lives but had these faced imprisonment it would, in principle, have equally been an injustice
This is a silly article and demonstrates the author’s odd priorities.
Let’s start with the context.
People voted for Burton on and her associates who ran on a particular platform. They implemented a completely different platform. When communities protested and denied access to those installing water metres, Gardai sent in masked men to those communities and used force in the attempt to stop them. More resources were devoted to monitoring protest organisers than ISIS.
A man associated with corruption controlled one of the companies that installed water metres. He also controls or has an interest in most media companies in Ireland. Journalists who work for those media companies have tended to be hostile and unsympathetic to those protesting.
Burton turned up to an event. People realised she was there and protested throughout the day. She made no substantial attempt to engage with them. At one point, protesters gathered around her car and used tactics often used at sit down protests. Most were relatively well mannered, if angry. Some issued verbal abuse to Joan. One teenager threw a water balloon. There was a delay before Burton could leave. She followed the Gardai’s advice and did not attempt to drive off.
Several people were arrested as a result of the protest. These arrests were carried out using dawn raids instead of asking the defendents to attend a Garda station.
Many of the defendents are associated with a political party that is a rival of Button’s and this party has also been critical of the Gardai, water charges and the man who controls most media organisations in Ireland. They were the first people in Ireland to ever be charged with False Imprisonment as a result of engaging in a sit down protest in spite of the fact that the protest tactic has been used since before the foundation of the state.
The court decided nobody from Tallaght should be allowed on the jury and that none of the hundreds of thousands of people who opposed water charges and demonstrated this by liking an article on social media or attending a protest should be allowed on the Jury.
During the trial, Gardai provided factually inaccurate testimony about one of the politicians on trial. It emerged during the trial that none of the accused were being tried because they used foul or sexist language or threw missiles at Burton. The charges related solely to delaying Button’s exit.
The accused were found to be innocent of the charges. Now the media focuses on people commenting on trials through social media or the sexist language used by a handful of supporters rather than rather more important issues.
Here are the questions that should be asked:
How did so many Gardai come to provide identical factually inaccurate testimony?
Why were charges of false Imprisonment provided in this case but not during other protests?
Why were the accused arrested in the manner they were?
How, if at all, does this incident relate to other unusual incidents in which critics of the Gardai and/or the government have been treated unusually by Gardai?
Why are most journalists who comment on this story more interested in discussing sexist language and social media rather than any of the above points?
I don’t know the answers to all of these questions but I cannot help but feel that it is bizarre to see journalists and newspapers avoid asking these questions.
P.S.
While the abuse experienced by Burton is not something anyone should experience, nurses, teachers, bouncers and of course Gardai have all experienced worse.
When I was in school, on some rare occasions students locked teachers in cupboards, hurled verbal abuse or eggs at them. Nobody ever even thought about calling the guards or bringing charges of false Imprisonment. Now perhaps those charges should have been brought, but I have to wonder why it is Joan Burton is viewed as some sort of special case?
Why is their sex an issue? Burton was ‘intimidated’ because of the actions she took as tanaiste. The reaction of the protestors would have been the same regardless of whether the tanaiste was a man or a woman. Very sexist of Donnelly
@Anne Marie Devlin: you shinners do have a strange view on what constitutes a protest alright
Totally agree, was disgusting carry on! The charge was wrong that’s why they got off.
The sexism of this article shows how far we still have to go. To suggest an experienced and tough political operator as Joan Burton is going to be intimidated by a protest like Jobstown is an insult to all women. There is no evidence to support the claim that women are more affected by intimidation that men.
We want to see more women in politics. They are capable and able and we certainly don’t need to undermine the right to protest in order to accommodate them. Paul Murphy had a megaphone. Burton has never needed one.
Not guilty even with all the lies told as for the abuse GAA refs get worse on a regular basis
Whatever you say or write about, these men were acquitted and the judge questioned the evidence presented by the Gardai. Is there something that I’m missing.
What’s forgotten in a lot of this is all the lies Burton and labour told to get into power. No wonder feelings were running high. Thousands of lives were affected by labours lies and u-turns. She is some tulip if she thought she was going to be welcomed with open arms into tallaght or any other working. class area for that matter after labours betrayal.
That video from inside the car that was released didn’t show them to be scared or endangered at all! Maybe if the job was done right, people wouldn’t be as angry! And Joan’s friend shows a complete lack of respect for the people she’s supposed to be working for.
@Kyle Gorman: correct, the videos from the car show Joan goading the protestors, laughing at them. The Labour party is finished with her and howlin around.
When a law lecturer opines that the DPP could have gotten convictions on lesser charges for a case that hasn’t been heard I think that is the definition of prejudice. Why not try protesters on lesser charges? The contributor ignores the intent to remove an elected representative from office in this trial. This case involved a previous tainiste and a sitting Minister giving evidence against a TD. Whoever started it it was a political trial.
Next time you’re heading out of a concert or Match in a crowd of strangers with a common interest and some clowns go too far and cause trouble get ready to be taken off in handcuffes months later.
Guilty by association, or vicinity apparently now.
I’d be more interested in exploring how the DPP and the Garda, were so incompetent to bring about such a ridiculous charge, over 2 years of work and resources better used elsewhere, down the drain. Then there’s the matter of umpteen Gardai perjuring themselves, the judge issuing misleading directions before being corrected by the defence and of course one Mr. O’Sullivan whose reputation must be in shreds over this. Are there going to be investigations into the complete incompetence of these lot, bordering on contempt for the laws of the land I wonder. Shouting abuse and being mean whilst unpleasant is not a criminal offence. At worst there were instances of public order offences, so why were these charges not brought, oh right they’re incompetent liars. Another reason why the whole shebang of law and order should be ripped up and cast fit for the 21st century.
@David Wall: Elizibeth Howlin , niece of Brendan.
No mention of how not bothered by it all they were from the video clips from inside the car. So author also showing bias by omitting this or just plain lazy and not doing research and working from other articles which rarely mention this footage showing some not seemingly very bothered occupants
@Tadhg Lehane:
Joan Burton is senior citizen , would you like your mother to be subjected to this vile verbal abuse or would you like it directed at yourself if you are senior citizen.
@Aine O Connor: give it a rest. She knew exactly what she was doing. Poor Joan etc….FFS
When politicians stop telling lies, when the gda force is cleaned up and the public see people face consequences for corruption, embezzlement etc,they will start to get respect.
Larry must be new to RTE but he s learning their way s qick
“A LENGTHY trial that lasted eight weeks and then jury deliberations of just a few hour…”
This guy is a law lecturer so maybe he can explain the difference between the justice in a trial that lasts eight weeks and one that lasts one week and also the difference in law between a verdict where the jury talks for just a few hours and where they talk for days.
This is nothing more than the usual establishment hack venting his frustration at the failure of a political trial to deliver the expected verdict.
I feel sorry for any law student that has to listen to this stuff and who might think it is objective.
I read one of the gardai said it could have been like Hillsborough, despite not knowing what actually happened there. The only correct Hillsborough comparison would be the aspects of gardai lies and collusion regarding their statements.
With the amount of ‘embellishment’ from Gardaí yet again, surely it has to end up with defence being that no reliability can be taken from their testimony in court. Judges will ignore as long as they can get away with, as terrified of setring precedent, but essentially the justice systmem is being consistently undermined by those tasked with enforcing it
Your tears are both hilarious and delicious, Larry.
What iv never understood is how they were kept ‘hostage’ for 3 hours. Doesn’t make sense iv always said if the gardai wanted to get them (burton) out of jobstown they could have… it was all about politics “OMG these working class areas behave like …. this wouldn’t happen in foxrock etc”
Build a brige get over yourself . Paul Murphy and the others were found not guilty. I wonder how it would turn out if the Guards and Joane were charged with incitement and lying through their teeth. But of course that wont happen.
What a bad piece of journalism. Written by a west brit counter revolutionary hack. So when are the Gardai who lied on the stand getting done?
If this was a typical peaceful protest why were there so many Garda reinforcements called in to protect Joan Burton and how come eggs were readily available as missiles . As for the verbal abuse the women were as bad as the men.
At the end of the day it is the taxpayer who had to foot the bill for all of it.
@Aine O Connor: One buys eggs in a shop. Tamlaght has shops.
@Niall:
Go read an article in today’s Irish Examiner by Daniel McConnell to find out what civilised people think of the disgraceful ugly scenes and foul language used in this protest.
The DPP is partly to blame here, wrong charges brought by him, if public order charges were brought , these people would have been convicted. It was never false imprisonment , there was always away out.
Bit of a weird sexist framing smell to this article indeed.
Doubt they got protested against because they have 2 X chromosomes.
Think it had more to do with the fact they were professional pharisees that have done a lot of damage to a lot of people.
And politicians should feel intimidated by the people they represent. Always and everywhere.
For a law lecturer you are ignoring the forensics of the facts. The reason the gardai and the DPP charged the victims (Murphy et al) with indictable crimes is because they were statute barred to charge them with offences which could have been summarily prosecuted in the lower courts and that is down to stupidity and ignorance of the law by the gardai. Secondly, you forget that it is the lack of socio-economic policies by a neo-liberal government and the frustrations arising from clearer more defined separation of society between the classes (at least Henry Ford alway ensured that his employees could afford the product they were manufacturing) and the frustrations arising from these injustices including the front loading of taxes so that everyone pays the same regardless of their incomes. So you attack the fallout of failed government policies rather than the policies themselves and those who implimented these policies. You also attack the victims and yet you forget about the 17 year old boy who is the only (as per the decision of the court) person who has been and still is illegally detained because his sentence was based on the same evidence which was proved to have been false and based on 180 witness statements provided by the gardai which were lies. So being a law lecturer do you have an opinion on the 17 year old boy (s3 childrens act 2001) who is being illegally detained? Do you have a comment on the 180 false witness statements? Or that only for the fact that video evidence was available then these men could now be facing life in prison based on trumped charges which were based in a tissue of lies? Or the fact that Frances Fitzgerald intimated that an appeal could be considered? Do you not see an overall pattern appearing which permeates down from government into the Gardai and the office of the DPP? It is a CONSPIRACY created by the government to undermine democracy and stifle the objections to their austerity policies and a policy which would have made the Richard Posner of old (even he has copped on to reality and decency) extremely envious. You have not addressed these serious issues instead you are throwing a curved ball to deflect the crimes of the state in this instance. This stance is what I would expect from a government hack and not what I would have expected from a law lecturer…I am glad you were not my lecturer because I would have failed jurisprudence and the law of socio and economic rights.
@Paul Lane: I know the boy was released on condition after the trial and that he would not have a criminal record, however this proves that the judge was under pressure to convict which he did but without a penalty, which is bazaar for such an alleged serious crime, but it is still an illegal conviction and he was illegally held as the evidence has subsequently collasped.
@Paul Lane: They ran down the clock and had no intention of going to the lower courts. This was their plan all along. That plan included grouping us a certain way and writing their statements accordingly. When the DPP couldn’t (couldn’t as in give the game away) explain the rational of the groupings the Judge changed them and grouped us according to what we were charged with. From that moment on their whole little scheme began to un-ravel. It took 10 court appearances last year to achieve that, almost half of my available holidays from work. If this hired gun from UCG was really interested in what happened here he would speak to one of us and we could give him chapter and verse.
Another attack by the state media this morning with the Examiner and the journal bleating about “yobs”.
What about the politicians and Gardai who lied under oath. Those are real criminal offences but one law for the elites and another for the citizens who have been betrayed over and over. Bye bye Labour liars
In this long article, I really have to question the credibility of a law lecturer whose only mention of the probable serious crime that was committed is this.
“Moreover, there were issues as to the credibility of Garda witnesses…. ”
I think what is already known, shows there was, very probably, a criminal conspiracy by the Gardai to put six men in prison who were innocent.
Larry Donnelly, a law lecturer at NUI Galway doesn’t seem to feel any need to express opinions about that.
Is this guy credible?
I would advise people to get their education somewhere else.
@Brian Higgins: good point
Another nonsense article from another establishment hack.
In hindsight, the gardai should have used more force to ensure the safety of these women. The gardai have become too politically correct; a few hard men with batons would have had these bullies crying for their mammies.
Wouldn’t a water cannon have been a beautiful irony? It would have sorted this out in five minutes.
Free water? Give them a wagon load of it next time!
@John Mulligan: From your comment I presume your a Garda….”a few hard men with batons”…..yep….a true blue shirt comment…
Not a word about the fact that, without the advent of all-seeing video over a hundred Gardai and their-false, remember, evidence would likely have seen these men convicted, and possibly jailed for life.-What would have happened to the defendants even 10 years ago? What does it say about our ‘non-political’ police force that they did what they did, without even stopping to think about the existence of iphones and helicopters flown by colleagues outside the division, outside their appparently conspiratorial loop? Donnelly’s sees none of this because he is blind to the rights of opponents and that makes him anything but an impartial commentator himself. His view is revealed by his description of the establishment’s hard right perspective as ‘truisms’- the evidence of decades says otherwise- and his propaganda piece disgraces the Journal. Paul Murphy did not apologise for the actions of others, why should he, and to say he and his co-defendants would ‘likely’ have been convicted of lesser charges (who says so?) underlines the fact that our political masters were hell-bent on eradicating the left as a force rather than arguing on policy, and that’s what all right thinking people should take from the issue. As for Paul’s use of twitter within the courtroom, he ceased when instructed to, and was wise to use any and every means of protecting himself from forces that will stoop to any level, tell any lie, distort any image or stance, to shut him up or, if cameras and decent jurors weren’t available, lock him up!
No mention of the high ranking minister taking the stand to have a minor convicted.
While i dont like to see any person verbally abused This almost justifies the abuse that she recieved on the day.
It amounts to child abuse.
Unfortunately, it is not against the law to be part of a vile mob hurling abusive language at one of our elected tds.
Whether you agree with ms. Burtons policies or not, ahe was a democratically elected td, and should have been treated with respect.
I can only thank goodness that the aaa/ pbp rabble have no chanxe of ever sitting in govt.
@Buster VL: respect is earned
Must be a friend of hers
jobstown verdict got over 80k views in 5 hours on here this barely 14k views in 7 hours show the tyoe of smear this is and who cares to read it :D
Nothing but one sided reporting all during the farce of a case and now even after the verdict of not guilty they are still not getting it where is their headline on the amount of statements from the garda proven to be spoof and the total unnecessary waste of money taking this case. No one delayed two women .
The fact they happen to be women has nothing to do with it.
People delayed a high ranking political figure in the Labour party who had U turned on every commitment given to get elected. who just happens to be a woman along with her assistant. Any male member of the Labour party would have been slow marched out of town as well.
Nothing but one sided reporting all during the farce of a case and now even after the verdict of not guilty they are still not getting it where is their headline on the amount of statements from the garda proven to be spoof and the total unnecessary waste of money taking this case. No body delayed two women The fact they happen to be women has nothing to do with it. People delayed a high ranking political figure in the Labour party who had U turned on every commitment given to get elected. who just happens to be a woman along with her assistant. Any male member of the Labour party would have been slow matched out of town as well .
How did you manage to breach the 800 rule?
Not a word about the fact that, without the advent of all-seeing video over a hundred Gardai and their-false, remember, evidence would likely have seen these men convicted, and possibly jailed for life.-What would have happened to the defendants even 10 years ago? What does it say about our ‘non-political’ police force that they did what they did, without even stopping to think about the existence of iphones and helicopters flown by colleagues outside the division, outside their appparently conspiratorial loop? Donnelly sees none of this because he is blind to the rights of opponents and that makes him anything but an impartial commentator himself. His view is revealed by his description of the establishment’s hard right perspective as ‘truisms’- the evidence of decades says otherwise- and his propaganda piece disgraces the Journal. Paul Murphy did not apologise for the actions of others, why should he, and to say he and his co-defendants would ‘likely’ have been convicted of lesser charges (who says so?) underlines the fact that our political masters were hell-bent on eradicating the left as a force rather than arguing on policy, and that’s what all right thinking people should take from the issue. As for Paul’s use of twitter within the courtroom, he ceased when instructed to, and was wise to use any and every means of protecting himself from forces that will stoop to any level, tell any lie, distort any image or stance, to shut him up or, if cameras and decent jurors weren’t available, lock him up!
@Michael Bride: well said
@Michael Bride: well said
@Michael Bride: well said
The real misogynist here is the author of the piece. He truly believes that women are weak. If it had been 2 men trapped, would it have been OK??? Disgusting misogyny.
Of all the aspects of an unnecessary prosecution, the writer selected the least substantial and significant aspect.
Obviously never had to try exit the car park in Aughrim in County final day !
The Garda helicopter video is definitely a must see.
Larry wake up and smell the coffee. If it happened to anyone other than a govt TD there would never have been charges brought. Add to that the guards from the day felt the need to embellish upon their recollection of events. It stinks of “establishment” even thou I don’t subscribe to that thinking. Was I imprisoned when hundreds of lgbt members and supporters marched in town and my bus couldn’t get anywhere? No, I just had to wait and so did Joan. If she had waited or simply if the idiot behind the wheel had driven through them it would never have escalated. Not to defend idiots shouting names and throwing things but why were those individuals never arrested? All stinks.
How many days was the writer of this article at the Trial. Assuming NONE, would he like to review the transcripts and then write this after having done his homework like the Jury had to do ???.
@Mick Murphy: Nah!
That one would only further prove Larry’s peice as bulls#it
Great thing here is the freedom of speech and all our varied opinions. Good thing it wasn’t Lord Denning and The appalling vista . Well I’m off to Templemore for me tea
Larry, I want to explain something to you. Joan Burton is a public representative. People vote her in and listen to her promises and if she doesn’t fulfill those, the people who pay taxes to give her an elaborate wage have a right to be pissed off. I think someone in her position should expect this. Look at America and the protests and media abuse that Donald Trump received, that was no where near the scale of the Jobstown protests.
Can you honestly tell me, Larry Donnelly, that this wasn’t a scorned reaction considering how badly Labour failed in the following election? Burton was Fine Gaels scapegoat and she walked herself into it for the sake of shared power which ultimately destroyed her party. If the protest was that aggressive, with minimal Garda presence, I’m pretty bloody sure that they could have harmed her if they truly wish too. Austerity was the backlash of the recession and bad banking, I’m pretty sure a little verbal abuse is an appropriate backlash when considering further taxation. It’s freedom of speech, or is that now something that doesn’t exist? Why can’t the public speak or voice their opinions? Not everyone has the privilege of working in Public Sector, and those who don’t were hurt most. Unfortunately not everyone was helped by Daddy into a good job
The whole premise of this article is the two women were frightened. This whole case swung on video evidence. There are 10 video clips from the two women’s own phones adding up to 5min 22s taken across the time they were in the vehicles. There is 75s of laughter and Os of upset recorded. For the purpose of defending the case the Counsel did not get into an argument over this but considering most of the sworn evidence was contradicted by Video I thin we would have won this argument too but it was not central to our case so we didn’t go there. Once again you can have access to the whole lot if you wish.
What a biased, ignorant piece. One can only assume that, having lost in a judicial court, Madame Burton and Co. will now attempt a “conviction” in the court of public opinion. It was a fair protest, the woman was, in no way harmed – goodness, wouldn’t we all love to just sit in a limo for a small period – and what proceeded was consequent to her and her cronies in Government completely disregarding and disrespecting the wishes of the citizenry. Good grief.
Whilst the charge of unlawful imprisonment was over the top, the leaders of this disorderly protest did not behave appropriately when the rowdy & threatening element rioted.
The appropriate response was to follow Garda instructions, & disperse.
Two people were assaulted, bricks were thrown, many others endangered,threatening & abusive language used. That is not acceptable protest.
It is not acceptable either that these same “leaders” are now celebrating & crowing that they have been spared any penalty.
A bit of humble pie might be more appropriate.
Here Larry take this tissue….you can use it to wipe the tear from your eye and the massive amount of BULLS#*T dripping from your mouth. Christ you are so full of crap.
Oh fk off Larry you absolute nonce.
You are entitled to your opinion no matter how rubbish it is.
slinging crap desperate smear no time for this garbage write away no one will bother reading it
Make no mistake about it .
If they were farmers .that protested .
And stopped a car or person there in for any lenth of time .
There wouldnt be one word about it
have your say