Exactly Dermot. To suggest they orchestrated this is silly. It’s a noose around Burtons neck.

Well Murphy would say that, wouldn’t he, given he was orchestrating the entire thing.

Maybe he can explain why he had to ask the crowd “Will we let her go”, if she was free to do so all along?

And why does a TD travel with a megaphone in his boot?

I don’t see how she was held prisoner she could have got out of he car and walked away, they blocked a car that’s all.
My car gets blocked most mornings on the M50, should the 20 drivers infrong of me get charged too

If they were surrounding your car hurling abuse at you I expect you should stay put and wait until they disperse.

Ata boy Chris. Dumb it down why don’t you.

Moronic stuff.

Are you mad of course they did ah now didn’t another Labour legal advisor just get to be a high court judge!!
and then Joe Costello’s sister in law.

Labour are rotten to core and the Gardai and legal system corrupted beyond all reason!

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/former-legal-adviser-to-labour-called-to-high-court-31397698.html

The government party shills must be chasing promotion when 5 of them are peddling their guff at 6 in the morning.

The false imprisonment charges are ludicrous. The farmers (correctly) blockade the meat factories for 2 days and there isn’t a peep from the establishment. On the same weekend, the people of Jobstown blockade Burton’s car for 2 hours and it’s the end of civilization as we know it.

The leaks and political prosecutions are a serious attack on the democratic right to protest. Massive Garda and DPP resources are being used to criminalize protest and communities in Tallaght. The aim is to strike a blow against the anti-water charges movement which threatens not just the government’s water charges, but their whole austerity agenda. It won’t work and there will be a huge show of protest on August 29th at the next Right2Water national demonstration.

Maybe coddler we are just law abiding citizens who don’t believe in mob rule. Nah that can’t be it, must be a gov shill.

Lets face it.
Joan was not trapped in a car, It was a moment self of exclusion giving her time to reflection of her actions and gain the poor me status she craves.

Chris, did you bother to read the article? If her route of escape is considered dangerous then yes she was falsely imprisoned. Also if he is found guilty and serves 6 months he won’t be in the next Dail.

Yeah Jane. Ordinary “law abiding citizens” don’t set up brand new Twitter accounts to peddle political propaganda at 6 in the morning.

Guy with a AAA poster calls the rest of us “shills”. Eh, yeah bud, sure, all us normal people are shills, only the AAA crowd are actual people………

What time of day did you set up your Twitter accounts to peddle your political propaganda AAA?

I hope he gets locked up. He’s a political lier like all the others. Making promises he can’t keep and leading a rabble onto the streets. Not all but a strong minority who want the destruction of society. Selling the kings clothes to get elected. Just like Kenny, Burton, Adams, McDonald, Ahern, Haughey etc etc.
The public will never vote for those who tell the truth. You can’t have any more because……. I can’t tax the rich, there aren’t enough of them and they already pay 56%, I can’t tax companies more it’ll affect employment! I can’t tax the tax exiles! they don’t live here……. If you want more services I can only tax you or cut public sector wage and pension costs……. If I remove water and property taxes I’ll have to increase other taxes……..
I’ll run on that platform if I get enough green thumbs.

@John
My wife, mother, sister, girlfriend, Did not inflect huge austerity on ordinary people knowing full well the impactions the action would have. Nor would they be naive enough to think they would be welcomed with open arms in to the community following such actions.

I’ve been on this a few months now coddler and this is at least the 5th time someone has mentioned troll, my new Twitter acc or shill. Usually it’s from the SF supporters to be fair. I don’t use Twitter so I set up the acc just for the purpose of commenting here, I think that’s allowed. I’ve never voted FG in my life as I don’t like the lads running in my constituency. I’m not peddling anything except my opinion which you are welcome to disagree with but try a little harder than name calling.

Jane,

Save your breath. Coddler has a complete inability to debate the substantive points on anything.

When you see him calling others trolls and shills take it as a tacit white flag on the topic at hand.

Sadly, he does believe that only one narrative/opinion is allowed, but that’s largely due to the fact that what he believes in is vacuous, that allowing debate will highlight this every time.

MK76 you still here? How much does the party pay you to spout your daily crap?

Gus, please re-read my last post and where you see “Coddler”, replace with Gus/LLA folk.

Gus , you seem to think that if a person has a different opinion to others that they are trolls or that some party is paying them to say that . people do have their own views and opinions on things you know ?

To be heard sunshine.

If 20 cops were present to protect me, I don’t think I’d feel in danger getting out of the car. Unless of course I was terrified of water balloons

or maby ye are like sheep

Maybe you’re the sheep Frank.

Jane
Deepest apologies if I wronged you and you’re not actually a government party hack.
Maybe you would like to tell us who you voted for in the last GE then? Names please.

No unnamed independents who magically share your Thatcherite views. (I voted for Joe Higgins just to get the ball rolling.)

Jane, ignore Coddler – even the AAA do, another poster here contacted AAA and they said that he does not represent them, they have no connection with him whatsoever and his views are (definitely) his own.

He, like For Connolly (formally were jammin) are the ones who repeatedly resort to insults and don’t address the points people make – choosing instead to try and bully people from commenting.

Ignore. Ignore. ignore.

Colm Flaherty,

My political allegiance is clearly stated through my Anti Austerity Alliance logo. MK76, One True Voice, Jimmy Jones, Sunshine, .and a assorted other government party hacks swarm all over the Journal peddling their poisonous political agenda under anonymous accounts with no indication as to their vested interests.

You see the difference, yes?

See Jane – here is Coddler at his best, asking you to divulge your personal views, your personal information so that you can “prove” something to him.

Ignore him, it doesn’t matter what you say – because tomorrow he’ll do it all again and you certainly are not obliged to answer him. Even the AAA want nothing to do with him…..

Indeed Patsy.

I’m asking an anonymous Twitter account called “jane” who she voted for and in your fevered imagination this amounts to “divulge your personal views, your personal information”
Even if I did know or care who Jane was, what exactly do you think I would do with the information?
Maybe go around to Jane’s in my Tarzan togs?
Get over yourself, you eejit.

Murphy’s megaphone deplomacy to cause mayhem in an otherwise peaceful environment…..

coddler , I have nothing whatsoever for anything to do with any political party , you like to accuse people of this when they disagree with you . people have different views opinions of things , we don’t all think the same as you .

Coddler,

By voting for a particular party, whom ever they may be, now makes you a hack, shill and/or mouthpiece?

Wow. Nice brand of democracy you’re espousing.

Coddler, its good of you to point out everyone’s political preferences and the fact they use anonymous accounts. Does the fact you also use an anonymous account escape you? How many variations on Coddler/Waddler/Slugger/Rooney/O Toole have you used now?

Coddler

I have no links to Labour or FG . Dont like Enda or Joan – never did . I give my first preference to independents . I will probably vote Social Democrats/ Independent next election . However you call me an anonymous government hack .

Who are you to call others on their “Anonymous Twitter Accounts”.

I suspect that you are not really part of AAA at all – more like a junior cert student or something. You dont seem to grasp fundamental economic or political concepts and rely heavily on cutting at pasting other people’s words ( the grown ups) .

Am I right ?

“Im asking an anonymous Twitter account called “jane” who she voted for ”

Oh the irony…………

“Even if I did know or care who Jane was, what exactly do you think I would do with the information?”

Then why are you asking her? Unable to coherently respond to her comments are we?

“Get over yourself, you eejit.”

And as he always does, he reverts to type by throwing insults – proving my points again and again and again..

So what if Jane is anonymous? At least she not lying as you are – the AAA completely disowned you and your views, you do not represent them or their views – we established that a while ago.

And on cue, here comes Jimmy Jones one of the blueshirt party hacks caught embarrassingly with his trousers down yesterday lying about which political parties he supports.

http://www.thejournal.ie/jobstown-charges-leaks-2268519-Aug2015/
Q.E.D

Pathetic Coddler.

You constantly refuse to debate the issues, much like your beloved party, who are shamefully silent on everything but water.

Coddler your account is anonymous too. No one knows who you are and your account seems to be used only to comment on this site.

Definition of an anonymous account. What are you on?

I voted for Finian McGrath by the way. I also voted no to Mastricht and Nice. I voted yes for Lisbon though.

Coddler – you remind me of a school yard bully . I told you ( thinking your question to be genuine and sincere ) that in the last election I voted #1, Independent , #2 FG , #3 Independent . In fact I always give Independents #1 and will probably vote Social Democrats next election. You have somehow warped that into me being a government shill and liar. I find this creepy and am glad I didnt give you any other info .

Jane – and others – dont give any personal info to Coddler – eeeeeek

Typical looney left reaction Jimmy. Their idea is that if you’re not with us you’re up against the wall when the revolution comes. Their hero is in trouble now and it’s really messing with their heads.

Murphy has already stated that he didn’t organise this particular protest and that ones he organises go more smoothly.

I want to get peoples opinions though

Is it mob rule when farmers blockade meat factories or hold a picket against unfair wages song people from entering (the dunnes picket line for example)

If a car crashes on a motorway (or any road for that matter) and brings traffic behind it to a standstill for hours on end can the person who caused the incident be charged with false imprisonment / mob rule etc?

Stopping – not song

I need to proof read more

That’s not all you need to do :)

Alan,
My identity is irrelevant. My political allegiance is relevant on a political discussion forum like and that’s clearly stated.

The actual identities of Jimmy Jones, MK76, One True Voice, talkingsense etc etc etc don’t matter either and I never ask them who they are .What does matter is which political party they represent and that’s why I call them out.

You own username Alan O’ Connor may be entirely fictitious as far as we know. That doesn’t really matter either but if you were a member of FF for example then that should be known in the interests of transparency.

(Not making that scurrilous FF accusation against you by the way)

“Murphy has already stated that he didn’t organise this particular protest and that ones he organises go more smoothly.”

As per the article, it doesn’t matter if he organised it or not, or if he initiated the false inmprisonment, if he if sound to have prolonged that detention, he could be found guilty:
“The text advises that, in cases of false imprisonment, a person need not have originally imprisoned the individual to be guilty of that crime. It has been shown that they may be considered guilty of that offence if they continued a wrongful detention.”

Waffler, if your identity is irrelevant why make a habit of pointing out other peoples anonymous accounts. your hypocrisy is astounding

@An other, “if a car crashes on a motorway…..” People don’t purposely cause crashes in order to falsely imprison others. They’re called accidents for a reason.

I don’t care who you are talkingsense but your political allegiance is important here. So I’ll ask you the same question as it appears Jane has now gone AWOL.

Can you tell us, from behind your anonymous username, who you voted for in the last GE?
No unnamed independents please.

#talkingsense

It a collision!

Danny Butterman: Hey, why can’t we say “accident,” again?
Nicholas Angel: Because “accident” implies there’s nobody to blame.

Coddler – you are trying to fish for people’s personal info for some unknown reason and then you are saying that your own identity is irrelevant. Complete hippocracy.

Now can everyone see the calibre of the “aaa” supporter Coddler. With her bully girl tactics she learnt in the school yard. Unable to understand the concept of a secret ballot

Waffler, I didn’t vote, I wasn’t in the country at the time. Hope that clears it up for you. What about yourself why don’t you tell us which superior moral being you voted for.

“I don’t care who you are talkingsense but your political allegiance is important here. ”

Are you that thick Coddler? Do you not realise that this government were elected by the many people on this site who have since changed their allegiance – so what anyone voted in 2011 is completely irrelevant.

While many do not support FG/Labour – that does not mean that your Party (the one that disowned you) is the only alternative – that is what you are saying – either share my allegiance or you are a blueshirt.

If you cannot discuss the substantive points made then you attack people because you believe that they MUST SUPPORT FG/Labour. You make a presumption, then you ask and no matter what the answer – it doesn’t matter to you.

This isn’t a political discussion forum. It’s a comment section. Get over yourself, you’re not DOB.

Welcome to the real world Mr Murphy…….

Hey Listen you are ALL SHILLS, PARTY HACKS, BLUESHIRT WEARING, ONLINE CROSS DRESSING TROLLS, its just you don’t know it because you don’t understand ideology. BUT THE BIGGEST BLUEST, SHIRTIEST, SHILLIEST, HACKY LAD is none other than CODDLER ROONEY! It’s obvious he’s a double agent, sure ENDA AND JOAN combined could never do as good a job pushing everyone back towards the status quo. Now the only one who knows the truth and operates as completely autonomous political agent is ME, CARMO VANDERVAL!

Ah now MK, that’s not fair – they do mention other things:

“What We Stand For

Abolition of the Property/Home Tax. No to Water taxes, metering & to privatisation and profiting from water.

Defend our council and public services. No more cuts or erosion of worker’s pay and conditions.

Our Councillors will not go into coalitions or make deals with the austerity Parties

(FF, FG, LP) and will not participate in junkets or the gravy train.

We support a united movement of all affected by home taxes and austerity. We oppose divisions based on race, nationality, gender or age.

End the bailout of the banks and bondholders. No to all Austerity – ordinary people have paid enough.

Tax the Wealthy as the alternative to austerity: For progressive taxation on the wealthy and corporate sector.

Public investment to create jobs, stop emigration and provide housing and socially useful infrastructure.

Planning for the community, not for developers or vested interests.

For mortgage debt write-down to real house values to keep struggling families in their homes. The banks should be run in the public interest and to assist in economic recovery.

Save our health, education and social services – reverse the cuts and restore staff levels.”

I love when you get people like coddler who claim to be the face of the anti profit socialist austerity people’s alliances or whatever name they give themselves. He does a marvellous job of showing why people with a modicum of intelligence should never vote for them. All they do is make up policy as they go along, shout down others as the bourgeoisie and show that they are incapable of being true leaders.

Yep Stephen, let’s take a look at the “policies”.

Property tax – abolish it.

Water charges – abolish them.

Public sector pay – no more cuts.

Public sector investment – create MORE public sector jobs

Housing – build loads of houses

Write off everyone’s mortgages

Reverse all cuts and restore staff levels

So – to fund this:

End the bailout
Tax the rich

There you have it – lazy policies, half baked (actually not even half baked – raw really).

Gripping stuff, pie in the sky and written with the full and absolute knowledge that they will never get into power – thanks be to god.

Question: What does an AAA member do when they are elected to fight against those bad rich people and support the poor?

Answer:

Cracks open the champagne – you could not make it up.

Mind you, if I hopped on the gravy train then I would too, Choo Choo – all aboard…

Liam, an honest person could never get elected, the voters are mainly idiots. The cr_p that people believe in is astonishing, gods, angels, good luck, bad luck, thinking they can win the Lotto, Homoeopathy, Acupuncture, copper bracelets for arthritis, magnetic insoles, the CIA blew up the world trade centre, Nuclear Power is dangerous, Chernobyl caused birth defects & killed thousands, Fracking is bad, GMOs are dangerous, The Illuminati, socialism works …………………….and Singer Songwriters produce music.

It appears Coddler has gone awol too – of course that’s fine as he doesn’t judge people based on his own standards – thank god.

Good man Patsy. Thanks for posting up what the AAA stands for. I was busy and hadn’t the time.
Now let me explain to you why things are the way they are, who benefits from the status quo and how the AAA alternative can be funded.

(You’ll find this difficult to comprehend but try hard now like a good lad)

Modern fiat currency money is not a scarce resource. It is created at will by the institutions public (central banks) and private (commercial banks) that are authorized to do so.

The money has no intrinsic value, is created primarily on computer keyboards and so largely exists as electronic account entries. All financial assets are matched by an equal liability and so cancel each other out and ultimately net to zero. What remains is the real wealth of goods and services primarily produced by the working class through their labour. Financial assets (money) is a claim on that real wealth and therein lies its power.

Government spending creates new money from nothing and puts it into circulation while taxation removes money from circulation and extinguishes it. Taxation is what ‘backs’ the currency. The government imposed tax liability creates a demand for the currency, ensures it is widely accepted and so gives the currency legitimacy. Taxation is also the mechanism by which money can be removed from circulation.

A sovereign currency issuing state like the U.S, U.K., New Zealand etc. does not need to raise tax revenue from private sources in order to spend on its social program such as pensions etc. The government/central bank is the monopoly issuer of their own currency and simply keystrokes the necessary money into existence.

Therefore these nations do not need to tax in order to spend in their own currency. The act of government spending is what actually creates the money which is then later removed from the economy via taxation. Such a state could for example implement a large scale social housing construction program to address the homeless crisis which Ireland currently faces. This would involve the government simply crediting the bank accounts of the builders, material providers, etc as necessary to have the homes built with the added benefit of creating desperately needed jobs in the construction sector. This contrary to neo liberal myth is how sovereign governments (e.g. New Zealand) actually spend in their own currency. They face no financial constraints whatsoever in that currency. The state can afford to buy whatever resources are for sale in the domestic currency.

For example, this is how sovereign governments pay the wages of their public sector employees. So the £2000 monthly salary for a nurse in Britain will see her Barclay’s account credited by £2k (broad money) and Barclay’s reserve account (base money) at the Bank of England increased by £2k, all done by simply pressing the necessary computer keys.

The state may face real resource limitations e.g. energy or skills shortages but not a financial constraint as it can never be insolvent in its own currency as it issues that currency. However if a state, promises to convert its currency to something else e.g. another currency or gold as a fixed rate, then it faces constraints in that other currency or commodity.

So nations which maintain a peg with the dollar for example must earn (through exports usually) or borrow reserves of dollars in order to maintain the peg. Greece and Ireland are effectively users of a foreign currency, the Euro and so are even further constrained. This is a deliberate design feature of the Euro which confers enormous power to the unelected and ultra capitalist institutions of the currency union such as the ECB who now hold the purse strings rather than the elected governments of the member nations.

The macro economy of nations and the globe is fundamentally different to the micro economics of business and households (private sector) who are users of the currency but not the issuer. A sovereign currency issuing government can afford to buy whatever resources are available for purchase in its own currency (including the labour of the unemployed) as they can never run out of keystrokes and so a budget deficit should not be considered a problem once this understood. The U.K. can sustain any size of budget deficit or national debt once it is denominated in sterling as the debt and interest is serviced via simple keystrokes at the central bank. That is why the enormous £850 billion bank bailout in the U.K. did not bankrupt the nation as it did in Ireland’s case.

Therefore the budget deficit (or surplus) should always be allowed to float to whatever level is required to support full employment to maximize productive output while maintaining price stability. As the economy approaches maximum productive capacity with full employment, the state can then remove money from the system via taxation and reduce government spending to counteract inflationary pressures.

Neither do sovereign states need to borrow from anywhere in order to finance a budget deficit. When those states do choose to issue government bonds the primary objective is to implement monetary policy (usually to drive their chosen base interest rate to target) not as a necessity to raise revenue. The primary mechanism is that the government will issue new bonds/bills/treasuries which pay a higher interest than the central bank reserves which the commercial banks hold and sells them in return for any excess reserves the private banks may have. In the reverse transaction, the central banks ‘buys’ back the government bonds in return for reserves in an effective asset swap with the commercial banks when they need to increase their reserve supply. The primary function of these transactions is to drive the base interest rate to the desired target. The central bank selling bonds drains reserves and so increases the interest rate on reserves while buying bonds injects reserves and so lowers the rate.
The central bank reserves and bonds/bills/treasuries are created electronically at will by the central bank/treasury as necessary to maintain liquidity and the desired overnight interest rate in the interbank reserves market. In this way a sovereign country can never really default on its own currency denominated debts unless it chooses to as the central bank can always ‘buy’ back the debt with newly created central bank reserves which every commercial bank requires to function. In addition, when those countries do ‘borrow’ in the market, it is clear that they effectively decide what the yield/interest will be unlike the Eurozone nations subject to profiteering by bond speculators.

So since the gold standard was discarded in 1971 and the introduction of the fiat floating currencies there is no need whatsoever for a currency issuing government/central bank like Australia or Japan to ‘borrow’ at all in its own currency to raise revenue. They can and do simply keystroke the currency into existence at will. This is why sovereign currency issuing governments actually control bond interest rates regardless of the state of their economies. The government ‘debt’ market is in reality a risk-free, interest bearing deposit facility for the large financial institutions and ultra-wealthy.

Continuing this neo liberal agenda, the Eurozone was deliberately designed to allow private banks (markets) to profit to an even greater extent from member state debt. It’s only the Eurozone countries that are required to borrow their own currency in the market at an interest rate determined by the market as the EU allows the financial markets to set the borrowing rate for Euro countries on an individual basis with the ECB is the sole issuer of the currency and the nations prohibited from creating the currency themselves.

There can never be a shortage of money at a macro level so it’s clear that austerity and deprivation is a policy choice at national government and EU level. There are no shortages of any of the real resources (e.g. energy, food, material to build housing etc.) to eliminate poverty across the EU. The authorities pretend that there is lack of money to address the poverty of the citizens when in fact there can never be a shortage of a fiat currency like the Euro.

Neither is inflation a concern in the current recession where vast resources are available and many more resouces (including labour) are lying idle. There is no simple linear relationship between money supply and inflation despite what the establishment vested interests would have us believe. The point at which inflation rises depends on the availability of real resources (goods & services) versus the actual demand for purchase.

So the creation of new money is not in itself inflationary if there is sufficient real wealth (goods & services) to buy with that new money. This is especially true if the new money is directed to the productive sectors of the economy for example through infrastructural improvement which leads to GDP growth and so more availability of real resources to purchase. Another key factor which prevents inflation is large scale unemployment where the productive capacity of the economy is not close to its peak. In this scenario which we currently face in Ireland and across Europe, the labour of the unemployed can be purchased with newly created money with no risk of general inflation. In fact the Eurozone is now facing deflation due to the fall in aggregate demand through 6 years of austerity. The enforced shortage of fiat money which are in reality just keystrokes at ECB level is a political choice, not an economic necessity.

This is so because the capitalist class benefit disproportionately in both the boom and bust phases of the inherently unstable capitalist economic cycle always at the expense of labour (vast majority). Therefore that elite and their political enablers continually promote policy and measures to inflate the booms and deepen the busts at the expense of the many.

So the booms are fueled by massive credit expansion through the commercial banks as we saw during the Irish property bubble. This drives up asset prices and profit margins for the plutonomy at a much faster rate than any wage increases. The capital owning classes have always known when to get out of the losing plays in time while a complicit media will continue to cheerlead the booms to manipulate the masses until the inevitable crash occurs. (This will sound very familiar to Irish ears).

In the reverse, the supply of money is restricted to deepen and prolong the bust. As we can see under the Austerity program, the ongoing recession and consequent unemployment is being used as a lever to viciously drive down wages and working conditions which also maximizes the gains to capital. In parallel, the national assets (like water) and social support systems (like health) are shredded and opened up for predatory fire sale purchases and privatization which enriches Denis O Brien and his ilk.
Economic stability is relatively unprofitable for capital but the vast majority of us are far better served by a stable system with modest economic growth ultimately limited by environmental, resource, population factors etc.

The ECB is the monopoly currency issuer of the Euro and faces no financial constraints within that currency. There can never by definition be a shortage of a fiat currency like the Euro. So if the EU/ECB chose to, they could simple keystroke the necessary money into existence to hire all the idle labour resources in Greece and the rest of the Eurozone to maximize the productive output of real goods and services and drive up living standards for everyone.

This would meet the twin objectives of creating real output for consumption and distributing it to the people who need it via their wages which are then used to buy those real goods and services.
This would restore the entire Eurozone to growth within a matter of months. It’s an ideological and political choice not to do so.

“Now let me explain to you why things are the way they are, who benefits from the status quo and how the AAA alternative can be funded”

Sorry but could you link to the AAA alternative as set out in your post – I cannot find that alternative on their website.

Thanks – there’s a good girl.

Still rattling on Coddler with your bullshit economics? Learned nothing from the Greek experience, Argentina, Iceland and now China. All money supply crises though for different reasons. You alway present that governments have no consequences for printing money. No devaluation, no increase in interest rates and no willing buyers of bonds or shares in the particular country.

A final question. Do you have work to go to as you seem to spend the working day posting on article after article in the Journal? Maybe you are financed by the taxpayer?

“For example, this is how sovereign governments pay the wages of their public sector employees. So the £2000 monthly salary for a nurse in Britain will see her Barclay’s account credited by £2k (broad money) and Barclay’s reserve account (base money) at the Bank of England increased by £2k, all done by simply pressing the necessary computer keys.”

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/08/tories-12bn-welfare-cuts-mythical-scroungers-conservatives

“The coalition did indeed make about £18bn of welfare cuts over the last parliament – but importantly, in view of what they need to achieve over the next five years, very little in the way of savings.

The bulk of the cuts – roughly two thirds – came from below-inflation uprating of benefits; the rest from restricting child benefit for wealthier families and some cuts to child tax credit. The cuts made here were more or less cancelled out by massive overspending on disability benefits and housing benefit.”

You should write to this man and tell him that he is doing it all wrong.

Mr. David Cameron,
C/O 10 Downing Street.

Not only that Liam – but he misrepresents it as the views from the AAA – I have asked him before to link me to this alternative – still waiting and I am happy to be found wrong in this matter – but to date – nada, nothing, zilch.

Waffler, any chance you’d answer the my question. Sorry, your own question you’ve been asking everyone today.

Wish he’d link me to that alternative on the official AAA website.

Does anybody actually bother reading fully through what Waffler copy and pastes into the comment sections?

Its some serious amount of shite. Painful to read through. I actually kind of feel sorry for him that he even bothers.

Stephen, in case you’re not aware he has been posting this crap for most of the time since the start of the crisis. Some of us have entered into long, point by point rebuttal. Pointless. She/he then lists a link (the same one) to some lefty economists paper which when you read it you realise quickly he has wrongly interpreted and selectively quoted. As we know all the lefties like to demand the world they would like rather than the world with humans and all their foibles. Self interest, family first and handy earnings paid by someone else. They disavow personal responsibility.

Coddled is like the character in the Yellow Brick Road. Words mean what he wants them to mean. Unfortunately he’s not alone among the contributors.

Don’t forget Liam, that he claims that this is the view of the AAA, when another poster here contacted them they clearly stated that his views are not their views, he does not represent them, they have no association with him.

He misrepresents the views of the party he has pledged allegiance to – because that is what he does, if you don’t agree with him you are a government shill, I cannot find this alternative anywhere on the AAA website – he simply misrepresents their views.

folks coddler has left us for today. he’s changed the name on his fake account to Wally and is now trolling the other article on this subject

Brought the kids to the cinema, looks like I should have hung around on this seems it was even more entertaining.

If any member of the public was surrounded by a political mob, shouting and chanting aggressively around them and making threats upon their person for two hours, that counts as imprisonment.

If Gerry Adams was driving down O’Connell Street and Willie Fraser and his Orange march surrounded his car for two hours and prevented the car from proceeding and taunted him through the windows, I expect there would be a very different attitude on this forum.

Jimmy He was referring to the car, Joan wasn’t physically held against her will the car she was in was blocked from driving away there was nothing stopping Joan from leaving the car, so the charge of false imprisonment doesn’t stack up.

Peadar are you serious? If she left the car the charges against these people would have been a lot worse. It’s simply untrue to say she could have left the car.

Peader seems to think Burton’s attempt to put a brave face on things absolves Murphy and his gang.

Should she have started crying and panicking and demonstrated her fear for you? Her demeanour is irrelevant.

Maybe Peadar is a 6ft 6 rugby player but I’m not and there’s no way in hell I’d have gotten out of that car.

Hi Jason,
Re Ur witnessing of siege/hostage situations,have you reported your involvement to the proper authority’s ? There are none so blind as those who will not see.

More importantly
How relevant is paul Murphy
He’s only ever in the news when causing trouble!!!

100%

I wonder if the camera phone videos that are so often used to attack the garda or IW workers, that were no doubt at this incident, will mysteriously disappear?? Would be nice and ironic for the AAA crowd to be stung by their own “weapons”

the likes of willie frazer and orange order have actually made near fatal attacks on Gerry Adams in the past, to suggest that Burton was in anything close to a similar situation is just plain hysteria at this stage..

To all those posters above who claim Joan Burton was not falsely imprisoned, please explain why Paul Murphy stood up with a microphone and said to the mob “Will we let her go”?

peadar you must feel like a big strong man and have zero compassion ro woman. The taniste waa petrified and these protesters should hang their head in shame for the way they treated a woman. cowards.

Playing the sexist card? I knew those who support this court case were scraping the end of the barrel but that’s just pathetic.

MK76….because he was asked to do so by the Gardaí.

But if Paul Murphy felt she was already free to go, why would he have agreed to stand up and ask the question (with a smug grin on his face I might add)?

Doesn’t stack up Al.

In the months after the Jobstown incident, Joan was trapped in her car in Coolock and again in Edenmore for over an hour each time, why are no charges being brought against the people involved in those protests?

Jason, the sexist card? It isn’t remotely sexist to acknowledge that women in such mob situations are likely, for good reason, to feel more afraid for their safety than most males. If my wife or any female relatives were caught up in a similar situation I think they would find it a more hostile and threatening position to be in than would most of my male relatives. But anyone, male or female, who is hemmed in by a baying mob most find the situation frightening. Baying mobs are not known for their rationality. The fact that you can’t bring yourself to acknowledge that women may have stronger reactions to situations of potential violence than most (but not all) males speaks volumes. You must have little experience of the real world, of women, or indeed actual violence.

Who said they are not in the pipeline? If the timing for the preparation of the case is similar would wouldn’t be seeing charges yet.

By that very statement Murphy took control over the situation.
The Guards didn’t because they identified with Joan Burton whereas the Guards should have been impartial and taken control over the situation long before it arose.
To me it seemed that there was a lack of instruction coming from their commanders which of course has been resolved.

In fairness, it was caught on camera that the Gardaí in charge of the situation made a number of poor choices culminating in the decision to keep Burton where she was ‘held hostage’ by the protesters. The Gardaí made the call to keep her there.

It’s going to be an uphill battle for the prosecution to put forward any evidence which could be taken seriously. That is assuming it isn’t thrown out due to the potential perjury the leak has caused.

The mob might have done far worse had she stepped out of the car. They’d already thrown objects at her and hurled verbal abuse and threats through the windows.

The Gardai were right to let the situation simmer down.

The court case should focus on whether Murphy’s megaphone announcement of ‘So, will we let her out?’ indicated he was in control of the mob, was jeering and determined the time to cease the imprisonment, or if he was trying to diffuse the mob and establish some leadership to allow her get safely free. He has already made the latter argument in his defense.

regardless of whether the car doors were locked or not , an unruly mob led by the champagne socialist restricted an other persons freedom to move. if this wasn’t a politician their would be outrage and demand for swift justice.

If a bunch of out of control irate water installers and John Tierney surrounded Murphy in his car for a few hours, shouting threats through the wondows and impeded his passage until Tierney made the call to release him, I’d expect the Gardai to bring charges against Tierney and his gang.

Why is Murphy to be allowed some exemption?

Law does not require any sort of physical restraint or barrier to constitute false imprisonment.

You can assault someone without ever touching our attempting to touch them… All it requires is reasonable belief on the part of the victim that they could come to physical harm at the hands of the perp, coupled with an immediate and present ability of the perp to do so.

False imprisonment is the same..

So apparently throwing water balloons and insults are now valid indicators of an individual’s likelihood of committing an assault? What a ludicrous claim.

The simple fact is Burton could have left at any time but Gardaí on the scene at the time made the decision to keep her there. She obviously didn’t look threatened, intimidated or distressed at any stage from the comfort of her state-provided Audi from photographic evidence of the incident.

Jason you sound disappointed that the situation didn’t escalate.

That was exactly what the Gardai were trying to achieve you eejit. 40 Gardai arriving in riot gear would not have helped; but it would have played right into the hands of Murphy and his gang who were looking to antagonise, just as hours of youtube footage shows with the ‘peaceful protesters’ trying their best to spark off a garda reaction.

Despite your best wishes, the protests were peaceful with the worst offence being the throwing of a water balloon (by a person who wasn’t even involved in the protest) and the usage of colourful language.

The Gardaí could have removed her at any time. Do you honestly think anyone in the Gardaí would care about ‘escalation’ if the Tanaiste was in clear and present danger?

Not if she stayed locked inside her car and the mob couldn’t reach her. Which is what happened.

I wouldn’t call any situation that necessitates a police presence to escape from… ‘peaceful and harmless’

She was exposed directly to the public at multiple stages throughout the protest yet no violence occurred. Your point is tenuous at best.

All of this emotive ‘what if’ nonsense doesn’t stand up to scrutiny or the facts relating to the protests. No violence occurred during the protest, Burton was exposed for a significant time without the protection of her car yet no violence occurred, the Gardaí made no move to call in reinforcements and no arrests were made on the day.

You are assuming the mob had a stable constant state of mind and agitation. That is not how mobs operate. Things can get out of hand very quickly, having been peaceful the moment before.

Observe the video footage of them battering the car, pushing the gardai and hurling threats through the windows of the car.

John Tierney and his mob of thieves and liars hardly hold the high moral ground!!

Labour own the judges

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/former-legal-adviser-to-labour-called-to-high-court-31397698.html

Jason , they were far from peaceful

The blood thirsty zombies were thwarted by all the glass in the car! i wonder did they even scratch the paint?

Jason , do you understand peaceful protest ? there is enough video evidence out there that shows this was not peaceful , if this had been done to one of your family members , you would be demanding charges against them .

Jason you’re wasting your time with the sanctimonious government lapdogs, some of them would probably need emergency psychiatric evaluation if they ever witnessed a full blown riot?.

A pretty harmless protest in the grand scheme of things is about the only thing they have to knock the opposition and defend this tyrannical government.

Potential perjury this leak has caused? Please expand on that one, I could do with a good laugh