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TAOISEACH LEO VARADKAR spoke to Vincent Browne for the penultimate episode of the veteran journalist’s eponymous TV3 show last week.
During the interview, Varadkar spoke about a range of issues but a comment about middle-class Ireland gained the most attention online and in commentary thereafter.
In an exchange with Browne in which Varadkar said that middle-class people were underrepresented, An Taoiseach said that:
Over 70% of people describe themselves as middle class and middle-Ireland is even broader than that.
Asked where he arrived at that figure, Varadkar said it was “a standard statistic if you ask people”.
An Taoiseach also claimed that other polls have shown that over 60% of people see themselves in his categorisation of “people who get up early in the morning”.
Given that Varadkar’s first claim has gained the greatest attention, we’re going to take a look at that one.
The claim
Over 70% of Irish people see themselves as being middle class.
Firstly, although it is pretty clear, it must be pointed out that this FactCheck will not be dealing with the number of people who are actually middle class in this country.
It will also not be dealing with exactly what it means to be middle class. This division of society, and who exactly encompasses it, varies based on who you ask.
In the US, it even varies state by state.
In the exchange between Browne and Varadkar, Browne argued that is was primarily decided by an individual’s income while Varadkar said it was about more than just income.
Even if it were about income alone, there is a debate about what would constitute someone on middle income.
Previously on TheJournal.ie, we looked at who represents the “middle” in Irish society and teased out that it can be advantageous for politicians to keep such definitions deliberately vague.
A paper jointly authored by academics from Queen’s University Belfast, UCD and the ESRI written in 2015 sought to look at the concept of a ‘squeezed middle’ in Irish society.
As part of their work, the authors categorised households based on income in 2011 and estimated that 53% of households were either ‘upper middle class’ or ‘middle income class’.
Again though, this is based solely on income.
But what of the claim itself?
FactCheck made a number of requests to the Department of An Taoiseach for a source or sources for Varadkar’s claim but did not receive a response.
Speaking to reporters however, An Taoiseach outlined who he was referring to and also spoke about the reaction to what he said:
A lot of people have identified with what I’ve said. Perhaps more so than the talking heads quite realise. I imagine at some point somebody will do an opinion poll and ask people whether or not they consider themselves to be middle-Ireland or middle class and I don’t think the figures will be that far off the kind of figures that I used – around 60 or 70%.
“I think what’s probably important to say – this is very much my own political philosophy. When I talk about middle-Ireland and middle class, I don’t think that is defined solely by your annual income and, in the conversation I had with Vincent Browne for example, he was very much trying to define middle class or middle-Ireland as income. I don’t think it’s just about your annual income.”
It’s clear from Varadkar’s comments above that the Taoiseach feels being “middle class” is about more than just income. He describes this as being part of a personal “political philosophy”.
In addressing the 70% remark, however, Varadkar does not provide any source for this claim and instead suggests that he will be proven correct in a poll “at some point”.
It seems, therefore, from his comments that Varadkar did not have a specific source in mind for the claim.
He also seemed to row back on a hard number, saying the figure would be “around 60 or 70%”.
But what is out there?
Polls in the past have demonstrated that the number of people who consider themselves middle class is often greater than those who are, based on income.
Only last month it was shown that 70% of Americans see themselves as middle class. This is despite the Pew Research Center estimating that about 50% of Americans actually are middle class when defined by income brackets.
Whether or not Varadkar took his figure from this survey is unclear, but it is striking that the number is exactly the same as the one he quoted to Browne in the interview.
Without an Irish version of the survey however, it is difficult to make a firm verdict on Varadkar’s claim and therefore it must be rated as unproven.
This is because the evidence available is insufficient to support or refute the claim, but it is logically possible.
Varadkar practically admits this himself by saying that he feels that his claim will be shown to be correct when research is actually carried out.
Verdict: Unproven
Aside: While the verdict remains unproven, TheJournal.ie published a poll on this question last week.
The self-selecting nature of this poll makes it clearly unscientific and far from trustworthy enough to cite, but it is worth noting that 64% of people who answered it viewed themselves as middle class – not far off Varadkar’s original claim and within the two figures he later cited.
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One decent man is that man Mr Dunne.Very generous to his employees at Dunnes Stores when he was at the helm, unlike now when the money is still rolling in but the wealth is no longer shared.
Ben there. Dunne that. Bought the Taoiseach.
He was very generous to other people as well, very generous to one on particular .
Monty I hope you have the TM on that, that’s excellent!
They fear his honesty, don’t want to be named as a generous receiver of gifts and you know longer buy one get one free these days?
Why are the media letting those that ruined our country and landed us with huge insufferable taxes off the hook and still banging on about petty Individual crimes…. Report on those that bankrupt us. Or come out and say why you aren’t.
Montys.. Phenomenal.
I have a lot of time for Ben Dunne he fecked up in the past but came back put the head down and went to work- created a lot of jobs even in recessionary times. I wish him well.
Howeya Wardy!
He had the decency to apologise to Mary Manning a few years ago.
Typical Irish love the irish rogue bullshit from all above. The man is complicit in the corruption that we are experiencing now and for the future. Cop the fcuk on you idiots.
Maybe you should do something about it Andrew instead of name calling!!
i did business with ben dunne in the 80′s and he was an outstanding person in every regard and ALWAYS paid in full and on time …… tough and fair and a brilliant retailer
Coke?
Is the woman in the photo Miriam O’ Callaghan?!
Given that the article is based on an interview he gave to Miriam, I would say it’s quite likely that, yes, it is Miriam in the photo.
Well she looks 20 years older than she normally looks!
Sure none of us are as young as we once were.
I defo still would.
Sorry but she looks granny old in that photo, no thanks.
No I’m fairly sure it’s Miss Panti …..
I would. She has 8 kids so she is partial to it. Fair play to her!
I was wondering was it actually Miriam or was it Ben Dunnes wife, Jesus she’s put on ten years in the last coupl of months!
Ah lads stop now! She is a fine looking woman and if my wife is as fit as her in 15 years time I’ll be a fairly happy camper. She has always been at the top of my cougar list!
I saw Miriam a few weeks ago when I was in the audience of Prime Time. She’s not so attractive in the flesh. Granny like. She had to be centre of attention when off camera & flirting with anyone who’d bid her the time of day. No longer a fan…. And god help David McCullagh
I dont like that he buys politicians. I also dont like that politicians can be bought.
I suppose he done us some service by being open about it. And now we know how rotten things are. What can i say about Ben. Thanks Big Fella.
Oxford Dictionary definition of corruption “Dishonest”.
All our politicians are corrupt — Rabbit is the one who admits it.
@mindfullirish you must be talking about Fianna Fail ,Fianna Gael and The Gilmore party for sure.
Given what he said in the article, “The great thing about all of this is that none of them ask me for money, I must be the only businessman in Ireland.” this implies that all our politicians haven’t changed and all are still on the take – just not from ben Dunne.
There mightn’t be as many blown envelopes changing hands these days but there is just as much corruption out there, look at cowans latest appointment, rabbitte is one of the most corrupt of them all at the moment he is being lobbied in so many different directions at this stage he doesn’t know who is friend or who is foe.
In fairness, Ben Dunne is a far more fascinating character than his radio ad voice might suggest.
“If Ben can’t do it then it can’t be Dunne”, agh cracks me up every time, gas man.
Any chance of a line, Ben?
pathetic
Ben Dunne allegedly drove up the price for corrupt politicians.
In the pre Celtic Tiger years it was allegedly a grubby little field on the outskirts of town for a brown envelope stuffed with twenties…
Post the boom and bust it is suggested that you could have the whole country and three generations for a mere EU gilt edged pension pot, …..if your already morally bankrupt.
Makes a sad shadow of that great slogan…
Dunnes Stores Better value beats them all every day.
Driving down prices every day!
Monty, have to agree. Close the comments now we’re Dunne.
(with Stephen Kavanagh)
He gave money to Haughey then got caught trying to stick Charlie up his nose….ya couldn’t write it.
Not corrupt just a bit of a rouge Ben
Ben dunne..nice guy..runs a good gym..miriam kicks ass..id be in there
Like the proverbial snot of hot..
Two reasons why Ben Dunne can say he’s not corrupt is first because he didn’t understand the meaning oof the word and second because he’s now using the present tense.
Pure gentleman mr Dunne, he was a fabulous boss in dunnes stores
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