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A woman tackles Jason Kessler to the ground following the press conference Andrew Shurtleff AP/PA Images

'Get the f*** out of here': Organiser of white nationalist protest chased out of press conference

Jason Kessler had barely begun speaking before protesters began shouting over him.

JASON KESSLER, THE organiser of the “Unite the Right” white nationalist rally that turned deadly on Saturday, called a press conference yesterday afternoon to address the previous day’s events, but was quickly chased off by protesters.

Kessler had called the press conference for 2pm local time (7pm Irish time) behind the Charlottesville City Hall along with Richard Spencer and other participants of Saturday’s rally, but was greeted by raucous boos and cries of “shame” as he arrived at the microphone.

Kessler said a few “people resort[ed] to violence yesterday” before protesters began shouting over him.

Multiple news outlets, protesters, and bystanders caught the moment on video:

“Indict for murder now,” one protester can be heard yelling. “He invited these people.”

The protester was likely referring to the scores of white nationalists who arrived to rally in Charlottesville in response to the city’s plans to remove a confederate statue honoring General Robert E Lee.

“Get the fuck out of here,” another protester is heard yelling in the background.

Saturday’s rally took a deadly turn as white nationalists clashed with counter-protesters, ultimately resulting in the death of 32-year-old Heather Heyer when apparent white supremacist James Fields rammed his car into a crowd of demonstrators.

Two members of the Virginia State Police force were also killed in a helicopter crash outside Charlottesville as they were monitoring the protests.

The police told reporters on Saturday evening that they were holding Fields on suspicion of second-degree murder, three counts of malicious wounding, and one hit-and-run count. Fields’ bond hearing is scheduled for this morning.

Protesters quickly turned rowdy during the press conference. As Kessler attempted to leave, one protester appeared to try to punch Kessler before being restrained, according to video footage. Kessler is then seen ducking through bushes and trees in an attempt to safely leave the area, all while being followed by protesters.

At one point, Kessler had to be escorted by a member of law enforcement, who can be heard saying to him, “come with me, come on,” while ushering the man away.

As Kessler was leaving, a protester can be heard shouting, “Her name was Heather, sir,” referring to Heyer, the woman who died on Saturday. “Her name was Heather, Jason. Her blood is on your hands.”

Another protester can be heard saying, “Jason, what do you have to say for yourself? What did you try to tell the president?”

In a statement released prior to the press conference, Kessler blamed law enforcement for Saturday’s events.

President Donald Trump addressed the violence in Charlottesville on Saturday but drew sharp criticism for not singling out the white nationalists.

“We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence on many sides,” Trump said at a press conference. “On many sides.”

He added: “It’s been going on for a long, long time in our country. Not Donald Trump. Not Barack Obama. It’s been going on for a long, long time.”

The FBI announced late Saturday evening it would open a civil rights investigation into the circumstances around “the deadly vehicular incident,” ABC News reported.

Business Insider – Sonam Seth

Read: ‘Of course’ Trump condemns KKK and white supremacists, White House says

Read: Charlottesville mayor: Killing of woman was ‘terrorist attack with a car used as a weapon’

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    Mute Arch Stanton
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    Aug 17th 2012, 10:59 AM

    Why don’t we apply the same logic to the drugs trade? Only those who buy drugs are guilty, because the sellers are exploited victims! And what about the growing trend of Shirley Valentines traveling to Africa to buy sex from gigolos? Are they criminals? Are the African men exploited victims? I doubt we’ll see any prosecutions.

    Typical feminist nonsense. Women can only be victims and all victims are exclusively women. Men have been found guilty of being men. It’s getting difficult to tell feminism from Nazism. Feminism lays the blame for all of the ills of society on the base nature of men; with the Nazi party, it was the Jews. Maybe all men should wear a five-pointed star on their jackets to identify their original sin to passing women? Sorry to GODWIN the thread, but there it is.

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    Mute Mick Collins
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:05 AM

    Wow.

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    Mute Liam Ó Néill
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:13 AM

    You actually just compared feminism to Naziism? Like, you ACTUALLY just did that? Ok. Wow. I’m just gonna go and talk to decent human beings about this in a semi intellectual way now thanks.

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    Mute Liam Ó Néill
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:14 AM

    *gets hat*

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    Mute Deirdre Forde
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:17 AM

    I’d say you’re a great man for clearing a corner of the pub, Arch.

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    Mute Arch Stanton
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:24 AM

    @Deirdre Forde. I wouldn’t know, I don’t drink. If you have a counter argument, make it. Ad-hominem attacks are easy, and schoolgirl can do it. For examples, see comments from Liam above.

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    Mute stayfrostynatty
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:27 AM

    Dont get this..why do u have to make law to report a man that is using women against their wish..is as easy to just walk in to a police station..on a 2nd thought dont get invovle in prostitution is as easy as that..lot of the girls are either in debt,or junkies..cos respectable women dont even get in this dirty job..

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    Mute Sharrow
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:30 AM

    Not all feminists agree with turn of the red light campaign or with Ruhma’s tatics.

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    Mute Liam Ó Néill
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:31 AM

    Alright. The point is that these are not isolated incidences between men and women. The point is that women are SYSTEMATICALLY abused and victimised by prostitution. They are forced into the country and usually raped, beaten and made dependant on drugs for the sake of the industry. The idea of being “found guilty of being men” is a fallacy because not all, not even a majority, of men engage in this. It’s a minority that prop up an industry that commits some of the worst human rights atrocities in this country. And you think it’s the women that are the Nazis?No feminism blames a culture that has been shaped by men, not all individuals. A culture that needs a counter culture. What’s your suggestion?

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    Mute Michelle
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:34 AM

    It is not just females who will be protected if this bill is passed. There are also males who find themselves, due to their circumstances, having to turn to prostitution to support themselves or have been perhaps coerced into it as well.
    I am always amazed how this subject, on the one hand demonises women but on the other hand, you want to fight to the death for them to have prostitution legalised.
    One word : HYPOCRITES.
    Pity the law won’t be retrospective.

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    Mute Arch Stanton
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:45 AM

    @Michelle. Intelligent contribution. It’s the hypocrisy of it that is endemic in any study done by these groups. WOMEN BUY SEX FROM MEN as well. Anti-prostitution feminists rarely mention it except when pressed to do so, or they try to hide the data because it contradicts their women=victim narrative. They then engage in all sorts of contortionism to show how this too is an example of women’s victimisation. You can’t win!

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    Mute stayfrostynatty
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    Aug 17th 2012, 12:01 PM

    I knew i shouldnt have comment cos the thruth is when it comes to women,is so sensitive is a no go…but i stick to what i said..not all women are force into prostitution and if you ever found ur self in debt or addicted to drugs dont turn to pimps cos there are lot of help out there…you only chose the way u wanna live,this is europe not a 3rd world country..

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    Mute Andrew Brennan
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    Aug 17th 2012, 12:05 PM

    @ Arch Stanton: The voice of a victim put the lie to your misogynist assertion that there’s little difference between the Nazis and feminists. Indeed from this quote it can be argued that those who exploit and abuse prostitutes are no different than the Nazis.

    “ It felt like a prison. No time for lunch
    and I was on call 24/7. I saw between
    5 and 7 men a day. There was no choice
    about which men you saw, and some men
    wanted sex without condoms.

    If you refused to have anal sex you had
    to pay a penalty or the “security” men
    would beat you up. ““

    SOURCE For Quote: http://www.turnofftheredlight.ie/about/

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    Mute Cpm
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    Aug 17th 2012, 12:31 PM

    @Liam “A major police investigation into prostitution in Ireland has failed to find any evidence of organised trafficking there. ‘Despite recent claims about large-scale organised trafficking of women and even children to this country’, the Irish Sunday Independent reported last week, ‘the detectives found only two cases where it may have occurred, but they also had doubts after the women involved changed their stories’ (1). Irish police concluded that most of the young foreign women working within the sex industry in Ireland are doing so voluntarily. Perhaps they are motivated by the high pay – prostitutes in Ireland apparently earn between €500 and €600 per day, on average.

    Embarrasingly, these police findings seem to contest research published just days earlier by Irish anti-trafficking campaigners. They claimed to have identified 102 women and girls as having been trafficked into Ireland for the sex industry over a 21-month period. Many of these women had indeed experienced unacceptable abuse and violence as part of their sometimes dangerous work. But the Irish campaigners used dubious methods to reach the conclusion that the foreign women and girls were ‘trafficking victims’ and were ‘just the tip of the iceberg’.”

    https://network23.org/bristolnoborders/2009/04/30/more-evidence-that-sex-trafficking-is-a-myth/

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    Mute Cpm
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    Aug 17th 2012, 12:35 PM

    … so you can either rely on RHUMA for your facts and figures regarding trafficing,or you can rely on the findings of an extensive investigation by the Gardai. Personally, as I don’t like to be laughed at, I think I’ll rely on the Gardai’s findings.

    No one denys prostitutes can be abused, the only way to prevent this abuse is to legalise prostitution and offer protection.

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    Mute ciaran burke
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    Aug 17th 2012, 12:49 PM

    Arch I have to say I kinda agree with you on this one. Comparing to nazism is a bit off the wall but I c what your tryin to say. Good points .

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    Mute Deirdre Forde
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    Aug 17th 2012, 9:21 PM

    Arch, making a counter argument would suggest that I take your opinion that Feminism = Naziism and Men = Jews during the third reich seriously. I don’t.

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    Mute JTHM
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:17 PM

    @ All – to be honest, the opinions I want to hear ate those of prostitutes themselves, both male and female. Unless anyone here works in the sex industry, you’re commenting on an issue you don’t have much direct knowledge about. Personally I think prostitution should be legalised, regulated and taxed. But I also have no involvement with the sex industry. So my opinion is just as useless as everyone else’s. Is it so ridiculous that the people who would be supposedly “protected” by the legislation should have the greatest say on the validity of the legislation?

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    Mute Eleen
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:46 PM

    Thank you JTHM, you’re exactly right. And Liam, when you say women are forced into the country to be raped…you’re talking about TRAFFICKING. There IS a difference and it’s important to understand that difference.

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    Mute medred
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    Aug 18th 2012, 8:36 PM

    There is no good reason to make prostitution illegal other than a religious argument and selfish feminist agenda. Legalising it will protect women and their clients and make them pay taxes on their enormous income.

    PS Liam O neill I think feminism is very similar to any ideology that results in people forcing their perosnal beliefs on other. Difference is feminism is socially acceptable. You dont have to look further than yesterdays news RTE and the journal.ie both lead with 3 middle class attractive women sent to jail after a long run of provacative and insulting protests (including an orgy in a museum and forcing themselves on female police offficers) while 34 black miners in south africa were shot dead for demanding better pay and working conditions was nothing but a side sorry.

    Feminism the exploitation of geniue oppression to gain advantage for meritless white middle class women.

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    Mute Brian Leddin
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:05 AM

    Prostitution should be legalised.

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    Mute Tomy Iona
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:24 AM

    It would be nice if you said why – it might help to inform some opinion.

    New Zealand legalised prostitution in 2003 and claim no increase in numbers working in the sex trade. In fact, some areas are claimed to have reduced numbers.

    It’s not a perfect example of how legalisation could work but there are some arguments for why legalisation should certainly be considered.
    These are primarily public health reasons.

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    Mute Sharrow
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:31 AM

    Paying for sex is not illegal in this country.
    Running a brothel is or soliciting for sex.
    Unfortunately the brothel laws stop people from forming collectives to work safely.

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    Mute Andrew Eager
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    Aug 17th 2012, 3:19 PM

    Hi Tomy Iona,

    You never did get back to me about how you’d feel about your man potentially working in the sex industry. Any progress on that?

    Best regards,
    Andrew

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    Mute Tomy Iona
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    Aug 17th 2012, 3:45 PM

    I believe I did – you should take a look back.

    Legalisation in New Zealand has not shown that people are “tempted” into the industry – it has shown that those who are in the industry get workers rights.

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    Mute Andrew Eager
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    Aug 17th 2012, 4:15 PM

    Hi Tomy Iona,

    The last time I checked I had asked you if your mother was kept safe from harm and able to operate in a relatively clean environment (having multiple unknown sexual partners in a day is intrinsically unhealthy), and you could manage the required mental sidestep we discussed, would you be happy that your mother was working as a prostitute? An answer would be greatly appreciated.

    Best regards,
    Andrew.

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    Mute Tomy Iona
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    Aug 17th 2012, 4:34 PM

    And as I answered in the other story very early on, no, I would not be happy with it.

    What you refuse to recognise though is that legalisation does not encourage people into the industry. Therefore, our siblings and family are just as likely to be involved now that in a legalised situation. Except with legalisation they are more likely to call the cops if they have been beaten or raped and the number of attacks on sex workers are likely then to drop.

    And before you ask a similar question or continue with pulling at threads – make it a question or comment that doesn’t prompt the response of “what’s your point?”

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    Mute Andrew Eager
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    Aug 17th 2012, 4:51 PM

    Hi Tony Iona,

    So what you’re saying is that you want to make it legal for people to be treated in a way that you wouldn’t wish for your own family – It’s not a problem as long as it’s someone else’s problem. Doesn’t seem very socially progressive or enlightened to me.

    Best regards,
    Andrew.

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    Mute Shanti Om
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    Aug 17th 2012, 5:16 PM

    Andrew.
    Do you or Tony own your mothers?
    It would be fair to assume that both ladies are competent adults capable of independent decision making..
    If your mother chose to enter the realms of prostitution that would have been *her* decision. If it wasn’t her decision then of course you would seek to stop it, but if it was her choice then really it would be up to you to come to terms with it. You might not be happy with it, but that would be your problem.

    I should emphasise that the only time I would support prostitution is in the case of those who have made the conscious decision to enter this area. Human trafficking and forced prostitution are a different thing altogether and need to be stopped.

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    Mute Andrew Eager
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    Aug 17th 2012, 5:33 PM

    Shanti,

    The point I’m making could just as easily be made about a father, brother or son, so the knee jerk reaction you exhibited will have to be taken elsewhere. I’m simply trying to make evident the explicit hypocrisy of many of the pro-legalize advocacy demographic at large here. And for the record, I’d be equally keen to stop family members from using prostitutes if I found out that it was happening. I don’t believe sex is a commodity and no more than that, plain and simple. And I don’t think I’m alone in that perspective.

    Best regards,
    Andrew

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    Mute Tomy Iona
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    Aug 17th 2012, 5:56 PM

    Shanti – I hope you’ll note that I never said that I did – and in fact, that’s exactly my point.

    Andrew seems to be fixated on a presumption that legalisation being inextricably linked to wishing people into prostitution. It’s not – I’m not denying that people may be involved in prostitution who may not wish to be – but I don’t think legalisation would add to that, in fact NZ’s experience seems to be the opposite.

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    Mute Andrew Eager
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    Aug 17th 2012, 6:25 PM

    Wrong again, Tomy. If prostitution is not good enough for your family why is it good enough for someone else’s? This isn’t about me thinking legalization encourages prostitution, it’s about me recognising that it doesn’t discourage it, something you must think would be a good thing, if there’s to be any consistency and integrity in your position on the issue.

    Best regards,
    Andrew.

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    Mute Tomy Iona
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    Aug 17th 2012, 6:48 PM

    Andrew – call me wrong all you like.

    I don’t feel I have any right to interfere in the choices people make, particularly when those choices are of no consequence to me. If a family member was engaged in prostitution I would discourage them but I would have no right to tell them what they could or could not do with their body.

    My wishes for my family has absolutely nothing to do with it.

    My concern is for people involved in prostitution and I believe legalisation would improve safety for them.

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    Mute Shanti Om
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    Aug 17th 2012, 9:59 PM

    Don’t worry Tomy, the point I was making was pretty much the same as yours..

    Look, I’ve known girls who are pretty much nymphomaniacs who say if they could be guaranteed their safety they’d love to do it.. I can’t say I could do it, and no, I didn’t feel especially comfortable with their desire to – but that was *my* problem. They had no problem with it, if it would make them happy who am I to say no?

    A lot of my friends are into Burlesque. To me it’s glorified stripping, but these are my friends, they are doing something they love. So while I’m not rushing to attend shows or be involved, I still support them. Because they are my friends, and I realise that I don’t own them or control them. They’re still the people they always were, they just have this other aspect of their lives that I’m not involved with.

    Sometimes you just have to accept that people are entitled to have sex if they want to, and if they feel comfortable linking it with a monetary exchange then that’s their business.. It’s certainly none of mine.

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    Mute Shanti Om
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    Aug 17th 2012, 10:23 PM

    Ok, let’s hope this works this time..

    Tomy, I realised that, don’t worry. I was actually directing the question at Andrew, and Andrew, if it would make you feel better, do you own your father or your brothers too?

    This wasn’t some feminist slant, my question was about ownership of another person – as though your feelings about their lifestyle were of any consequence when it came to their decisions. I only asked if you owned your mother as it was the particular family member you mentioned.

    I had a friend who was quite er, randy.. She often said that if she knew she could be safe doing it she would happily go into the sex trade. She would have loved nothing more than to have made a few pornos too. Was I comfortable with that? No.
    But then there’s the other side of this, you see – I don’t own anyone else, I can’t tell another adult capable of making their own decisions what they can and can’t do, it’s their life, and they are free to live it provided they aren’t harming anyone else.

    This was what I meant, if you are uncomfortable with it then it’s is *you* who is uncomfortable with it, and by trying to assert your feelings upon others you are essentially trying to dominate them – like a parent would a child, treating them as if they can’t possibly be allowed to make this decision themselves because *you* don’t agree with it..

    My best friend is a burlesque performer, personally – I think it’s glorified stripping with some kitsch nonsense piled on top. I’ve told her that’s my opinion of burlesque, and she respects that – the exact same way that I respect what she does – even if I don’t agree with it, she feels comfortable prancing around on stage in nipple tassels – I don’t feel comfortable watching it – it’s *my* problem, not hers.

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    Mute Mick Collins
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:13 AM

    This guff and poster campaign is being funded by quangos that are largely funded by the Irish State and are attempting to justify their existence and employment as hangers on with a stupid idea that hasn’t worked in Sweden as locals will tell you the police cannot snoop on private property.
    Everyone knows that you shouldn’t drive this industry underground as that creates greater risk for women.

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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:17 AM

    Agree Mick. Legalise it. Set up brothels and license those involved in prostitution. Safer for the prostitutes and their customers. Bring in stringent laws to make street prostitution and the use of unlicensed prostitutes, trafficking and pimping a long term jail prospect. If it’s legalised then at least the Garda can concentrate their resources on those who operate outside of the law. All this campaign will do if successful is drive prostitution further underground which will help nobody. Prostitution has been around since man and women have been around and will continue long into the future. BTW this should be for both female and male prostitution.

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    Mute Jack Eagle
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:31 AM

    Fair point Kerry and Mick,
    How about we go a step further while legalising brothels, make them state owned! That way no private individuals will benefit from the trade, as in they can’t own a brothel. If there is such profitability in the brothel game why not let the tax payer benefit from the profits??

    They’re looking for a use of the Central Bank HQ, when it moves down the river – why not rename it Central Bonk and set up the first state brothel there???

    I love it when a plan cums together!

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    Mute Niamh Thecla
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:47 AM

    The continuing dangers associated with prostitution in Holland, and the continuance of trafficking on a huge scale gives the lie to this regulation argument. There is no safe space for prostitution.

    It’s been established that the risk of public exposure and a criminal record is a deterrent to the type of men who buy sex and the criminalisation of purchase will act as an effective deterrent to those men. It’s a reasonable concern that this will do more harm to women, but the reality is that with a significantly reduced sex industry the gardaí can more effectively target trafficking and exploitation where it occurs.

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    Mute Eleen
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:53 PM

    The reality is that making the purchase of sex illegal actually makes it more dangerous for the women involved in prostitution, as well as pushing the whole thing underground. It also has no effect whatsoever in reducing trafficking. It’s as simple as looking at Sweden and the Netherlands in general to find thins info.

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    Mute Ciarán T
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:25 AM

    Sex has long been identified as one of our primal human needs, if some people have not got the time, circumstance or ability to pursue it through conventional means who are we to deny them the right to pay for it if another legally consenting, clean and healthy adult, is willing to provide it in a safe well regulated environment.

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    Mute Abby
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:36 AM

    I don’t think anyone has ever died from a lack of sex.

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    Mute Ciarán T
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:39 AM

    @Abby

    You’re probably right but not every issue needs to be a matter of life or death. A lack of sexual intimacy can cause severe depression and other psychological issues.

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    Mute Niamh Thecla
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:41 AM

    So can prostitution.

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    Mute Ciarán T
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:46 AM

    @Niamh

    Which is why I specified a safe and well regulated environment. Nobody forced into it, completely free to quit at any point in time. I would also suggest that routine counseling sessions be provided along with regular health screenings

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    Mute rodrigo detriano
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:48 AM

    If prostitution were to be legalised, there’s no way you could have it state owned! Can you imagine the chaos that would cause? Half the employees would be off sick, and the other half would just be going through the motions!!!

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    Mute John Ryan
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:51 AM

    I know to guys that regularly vist them, imagine what the psycological issues the mothers of thier children would have if the found out.

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    Mute Niamh Thecla
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:53 AM

    Ciarán, that ideal actually can’t be achieved. In the Netherlands, Germany and other countries where prostitution is legal there are still vast levels of exploitation, trafficking and abuse. All of which actively prevent women from being “completely free to quit at any time”. The fact that you recognise that prostitution necessitates counselling indicates that this is not and cannot be a safe and protected industry.

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    Mute Ciarán T
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    Aug 17th 2012, 12:07 PM

    @Niamh

    I don’t feel it necessitates it, i just think it would be a useful safeguard against abuse as it transitions from being taboo and an underground industry to being something that is simply the norm. I understand its a sensitive issue as with it being illegal in so many places for so long a large illegal sex trade has grown internationally and will prove difficult to eradicate, I don’t think legalisation is a panacea but countries like New Zealand have shown more positive results.

    Part of the issue with Amersterdam for instance is the combination of drugs and prostitution in a single area made it a hotbed for organised crime, because of this I think Red-light districts are a bad idea. Also having been to Amsterdam I found the windows “Displaying the goods” to be both distasteful and demeaning, they defeat one of the key benefits of legalisation which is providing dignity to the workers.

    Perhaps what I see is unachieveable but I just think that opening it up and keeping it safe and changing societies attitude to it is a better way of dealing with it than clamping down and driving it further underground. Won’t be a quick fix though

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    Mute Mick Collins
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    Aug 17th 2012, 6:55 PM

    I never said that prostitution should be legalised or regulated. I said that the campaign to change the laws is being run by indirect employees do the State who need the headlines to keep the Funding coming. The idea that prostitution in Ireland involves the trafficking of women has been rubbished often enough by An Gardai and laws that force the oldest profession in the world even more underground are dangerous. It’s clear that these Quangos couldn’t care less as long as the Governement gravy train keeps them in a job!

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    Mute Stewie Griffin
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    Aug 17th 2012, 1:28 PM

    just follow Germany model and make it legal. Jesus bleeding hearts really come out on this one. The FACT is that the vast vast vast majority of escorts work on their own behind closed doors. Brothels like what they describe are what you get when you make it illegal.

    Make it legal and tax it and end this stupid irish pro catholic anti sex mentality

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    Mute Annie Cleare
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    Aug 17th 2012, 1:31 PM

    And have the country like amsterdam?? Get real

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    Mute Stewie Griffin
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    Aug 17th 2012, 2:14 PM

    not like amtersam if you would actually READ what i said, i said the german model. do we think if window girls when we go to berlin?? nope but sex industry is there as it is in Oz and NZ so please read and know what your talking about BEFORE you comment.

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    Mute Damocles
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    Aug 17th 2012, 2:50 PM

    Stewie, fair point, but what about Hamburg?

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    Mute Stewie Griffin
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    Aug 18th 2012, 1:28 AM

    well i think about hamburgers when i think about hamburg :)

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    Mute Chris Mansfield
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    Aug 17th 2012, 12:28 PM

    Criminalising drug use worked so well at reducing demand…

    It does seem that there are a lot of claims that can’t be substantiated here. 25,000 women in prostitution in Amsterdam? That’s 5% of the female population of the city. 20% of the number of women in the 18-35 age group. Really? And I’m not sure you could get a realistic number for Sweden in the circumstances there. While being a prostitute isn’t a criminal offence, they’re still not going to go public because it would put their clients at risk. Great way to kill business.

    While a 14 year old selling sex is clearly wrong, it doesn’t really make an argument for the clients of a 25 year old acting voluntarily to be criminalised.

    The whole subject is very complex and there are all sorts of considerations – What effect do various systems have on spread of STDs? Does a system make the women involved vulnerable? A rational discussion looking at a variety of solutions from other countries is far superior to an emotive campaign.

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    Mute John Everyman
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    Aug 17th 2012, 1:41 PM

    Making it illegal to pay for sex is just silly and backward. The fact is that even if it is illegal, it will still happen and because it will be forced even further out of the public eye, it will become even more dangerous for the women (or men) involved.

    In my view, the people involved in this campaign don’t really care about individuals; they are just morally outraged that two consenting adults can legally exchange money for sex and would like to make it illegal so they can pretend it doesn’t happen.

    Ireland should be more progressive and mature about our sex industry. I believe that not only should it be regulated and taxed (which will make it safer for all involved), but we should also work to remove the stigma around it. There is nothing wrong or dirty about sex, it is not something to be ashamed of or to be swept under the rug.

    Of course people trafficking and exploitation are wrong and must be eradicated, but for me those are two separate issues to two consenting adults exchanging cash for a service.

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    Mute Sex Work IE
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    Aug 17th 2012, 2:03 PM

    One of the saddest things about all this is, the government is only funding anti-prostitution organisations like Ruhama, and they are spending all their resources campaigning, and the result of this is that there is zero help for people selling sex. If we want to end abuse in prostitution, we need to start by giving some support to those selling sex, providing a place where they can go if they need help, not an “Exiting Only” organisation like Ruhama who are actually far too busy campaigning to care about genuinely helping anyone anyway, but an organisation that could support sex workers and help them with the problems they face, whether they want to exit sex work or not.

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    Mute Gaye Dalton
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    Aug 19th 2012, 1:59 PM

    That is a really good point, but sadly I suspect there is no way to fight it. It’s endemic in the whole NGO sector. The disability orgs are exactly the same…syphoning up all the government funding based on promises of providing their user groups with access to utopia with a side order of their individual wildest dreams, then when they get back to the front line all they deliver to their user groups is “their way or the highway”, completely independent of the real needs and wishes of their user groups, and heavily focussed on the fiscal advantage of their affiliated service provider.

    If you do not, or simply cannot, fit into that, then there is no support of any kind available to you at all, however badly you need it, and besides, who on earth feels comfortable seeking help from organisations that consistently take stances against their best interests?

    The one thing all these NGOs most abhor is any form of self reliance.

    The reason is very simple. The NGOs rely on a totally dependent user group to justify their existance. Self reliance a threat to that and if a user lead group can actually find a way to approach the funding table they are *supposed* to trump all other claims.

    So far, nobody has ever really made it, and that is not because everybody with a disability or disadvantage is in some way intellectually retarded, feeble minded or riddled with crippling issues of self confidence. It is because the NGO sector puts a lot of hard work into undermining the confidence, credibility and capacity of their user groups.

    They like them to be well dressed, well mannered, mascots to be trotted out to support their agenda du jour, then packed away neatly in their “residential centres for independent living and supported employment” until the next time…or too afraid and undermined to stand up and speak for themselves at all.

    Sex work is an NGO’s worst nightmare, because it is a genuine alternative to total dependence on the the voluntary and community sector for anyone in a position of disadvantage.

    Let me give you a simple example, supposing you are at risk of homelessness. You can place your life in the hands of a group founded by religious orders who recently distinguished themselves by cornering the market in the free cheese given out by the government, grilling it, and *selling* it to homeless people. They also operate a rigidly conditional selection process before they will help you at all, and an equally controlled and conditional rehoming process in the event that you are selected that is certain to stigmatise you, and your family, quite unnecessarily, for many years to come.

    OR…you can sell a few sexual services, rent a nice flat that you liked on sight in Dundrum the following week, and get on with your real life, in the real world, as a full member of the human race. You can even write a few strongly worded letters to your local TD challenging the ethos of the existing homeless provisions without fear of repercussions.

    Which is REALLY the healthy option?

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    Mute Wendy Lyon
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    Aug 17th 2012, 12:01 PM

    Any chance of a source for the claim that there are 25,000 women in legal prostitution in Amsterdam?

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    Mute Michele Kealy
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    Aug 17th 2012, 8:27 PM

    dont ya just love Amsterdam ..!

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    Mute Wendy Lyon
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    Aug 17th 2012, 9:13 PM

    Quite amazing to be getting red thumbs just for seeking a source for a claim made in the article. I guess this campaign’s supporters think they shouldn’t have to justify their arguments with pesky things like facts.

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    Mute Jay Meehan
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:45 AM

    hookers have rights too.god bless em.if they want to do it of there own free will let them its better some loser mad for sex pays for it than go out and rape. maybe many rapes could have been avoided if there was a local brothel and save some women from an awful thing

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    Mute Aonghus Collins
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    Aug 17th 2012, 1:28 PM

    To my mind, making prostitution illegal to try and stamp out trafficking is equivalent to making the sale of DVDs illegal to stamp out bootlegging. If enforced it will certainly work, but at the risk of damage to the livelihoods of people. There are without a date women involved in prostitution who have not chosen that life, and that is something that needs to be stopped – but trafficking is already illegal.

    There are, however, worked in the sex industry who have made an informed choice to spend their lives that way, and I can see no reason why they should be made into criminals. For reference, see http://www.turnoffthebluelight.ie, which is a campaign organised by sex workers in response to turn off the red light.

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    Mute John Mulligan
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    Aug 17th 2012, 2:23 PM

    When I read an article like this, I tend to focus on the facts and figures of the piece. The author quotes a spokesperson for the Immigrant Council as saying that on any given day there are 1,000 women involved in prostitution. Presumably a spokesperson for a government- funded quango has her facts right.
    I should add that I really don’t mind if John and Mary have sex in private and one of them pays the other for it. I think it is a bit sad, but not really any of my business as long as both are involved of their own free will. The rationale for the state getting involved in the transaction should be only about the health and safety of both individuals, and not on the morality of the transaction. That’s just my view; others will differ and I respect that.
    To get back to the figures though, 1,000 women is a nice round figure but I have no reason to doubt it. Another poster mentioned earnings of about €500 a day. I don’t know the cost of a single transaction, but can we assume that the woman earns €50 per head after the brothel owner has got a slice of the payment?
    That would equate to 10,000 transactions a day, more or less.
    Now if we assume that the men who go to prostitutes do so once a month, would that be reasonable? Maybe someone who has researched this in some detail could let us know if I am close to the mark?
    Let us make a further assumption that the women work a five-day week, would that be fair?
    If my thesis is correct, then it would take a customer base of 250,000 regular customers to sustain this business if the scale is as per the figures of the Immigrant Council.
    That is somewhere around a quarter of the adult male population of the country. Can this be the extent of the phenomenon? I know a lot of adult males (I happen to be one myself) and I am not aware of any of them using prostitutes. I accept that maybe many of them wouldn’t share that information anyway, but I find it difficult to accept that one in four of them would be involved.
    I’m not disputing any of the facts in the article, just wondering if anyone has done any real research along the lines that I have set out. I know that my figures are not too scientific, but anytime I have heard this matter debated I have seen figures thrown about that seem to me to be plucked out of the air.
    Over to the experts!

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    Mute Brian Ward
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    Aug 17th 2012, 3:09 PM

    Actually the source of the “1000 woman” quote was funded by the Religious Sisters of Charity http://lastradainternational.org/lsidocs/2973_traffickingreport0409.pdf

    The report says “Due to the clandestine nature of the industry, there are major information deficits
    on the number of women in prostitution in Ireland who are ‘independent’ escorts
    and on the number of women who are contracted by agencies. The research for
    this study was unable to estimate the respective numbers. ”

    Even though the report was compiled by qualified people I am at a loss at times as to where they got their figures.

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    Mute Sex Work IE
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    Aug 17th 2012, 1:51 PM

    Would like to highlight that Turn Off the Red Light are campaigning for criminalising the purchasers of sex and decriminalising the sellers of sex BUT in actual fact they are only looking for further criminalisation. If you support the Swedish Model please read this article http://sexwork.ie/2012/08/16/if-you-think-ireland-should-adopt-the-swedish-model/

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    Mute Donal McCarthy
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    Aug 17th 2012, 2:29 PM

    Maybe one day we will work out a way to legalize prostitution in a way that way that doesn’t lead to the exploitation of vulnerable women. Obviously, some prostitutes are fully compos mentis, and doing it just for the easy money, or because they enjoy lots of sex; however, these women seem to be a very small minority.

    In the meantime, prostitution is illegal. It seems very unfair that only one side of the equation should be penalized. I would imagine the possibility of having your name in the paper for hiring a prostitute would make a lot of men think twice about it.

    Did this not already happen to a group of men in Limerick?

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    Mute Eleen
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    Aug 18th 2012, 12:05 AM

    prostitution isn’t illegal, though.

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    Mute Alex Yarmoshko
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    Aug 17th 2012, 12:22 PM

    I cannot see anything utterly criminal if an adult want to exchange her/his sex for money/food/drink/iPhone/etc.

    Severe penalties, however, must be in place against any kind of pimps/brothel owners. And I mean severe.
    Even more severe penalties must be in place for those who buying the under-age sex. On top of the existing penalties for the participating in the under-age sex.

    This will more or less ensure that no-one can get paid for somebody else sex and that children are protected.

    Otherwise, we can end-up sentencing a guy who just bought a couple of drinks for a girl before they have had a (probably not very) nice night-time together.

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking!
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    Aug 17th 2012, 1:23 PM

    Hasn’t street prostitution reduced dramatically everywhere in the 1st world? Not just in sweden. Also are there not more factors to consider other than this isolated law?

    For example the growth of online escorts, also this change has led to an massive increase in independent prostitutes and likewise decrease in “pimps”

    Typical lack of joined up thinking by this quango, seeking to retain government funding by exaggerating problems…..and silly shock tactics…….

    Im not saying a problem does not exist……but some balance thinking please….too much to ask????

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    Mute cholly appleseed
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    Aug 17th 2012, 12:13 PM

    Kerry and mick, i completely agree with your opinions. People keep comparing the legalisation of prostitution on the Amsterdam model, you can’t equate that to Ireland or any other country, it’s a unique set of circumstances that is fuelled by tourism. There are far better ways of legalising, Germany, new Zealand, parts of australia to name but a few have legalised it with success. The claimed success to the swedish model is flawed because it just pushes it deeper underground which leads to it being harder to track and gauge. For all the swedes no is guess work.

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    Mute Stephen Murphy
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    Aug 17th 2012, 12:39 PM

    Legalise it and drugs! The only ones benefitting, are criminals and costing the taxpayer millions to prosecute and jail. Set up clinics around the country, where people can purchase these services and the people providing it. It makes perfect sense, prostitutes and drug takers can be tested and treated in these centres. The taxes, etc., will go into the exchequer and money saved from putting criminals out of business is win win! To stop Sex tourists, make it a condition only citizens can avail of the service and have to produce an Irish passport or licence!

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    Mute Gaye Dalton
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    Aug 18th 2012, 12:39 PM

    I wonder how old she was when her image was first exploited by an NGO for advantage and gain?

    This campaign is easily one of the most disgusting acts of exploitation and grant harvesting I have ever seen in my life.

    NGOs demanding legislation to take away the income from the very people they are funded to pretend to support (and don’t even get me started about what a long running, hypocritical fiction that has always been – cos been there, done that, still have the bloodstained T-shirt in the bottom of the laundry basket).

    I was a 14 year old “Anna” once, and I have spent the 40 years since learning the truth, first hand, behind all the cold blooded lies of this appalling campaign and the self serving, hypocritical, corrupt NGO culture that drives it.

    All this stuff about “coercion” and “trafficking” is just b*l*xology to sanitise that. Even the Guards can’t find any.

    These people were still running Magdalen Laundries in 1989 when they set up and started looking for “funding” to “support” prostitutes…bet we can all guess exactly what kind of nightmare they were hoping to “support” them into!

    When a woman sells sex, it is safe to assume it is her last resort, often not just for herself but for her family…anyone who tries to make that any harder and more dangerous for her than it needs to be is some kind of monster.

    But every woman who saves herself and her family by having the courage and strength to sell sex is a woman no-one will ever be able to claim funding from the HSE for “saving” so she must be stopped AT ONCE!

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    Mute Eleen
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    Aug 18th 2012, 2:05 PM

    Well said, Gaye!

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    Mute Jack Eagle
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:05 AM

    ‘She said that 1000 men were “for sale”……’

    Should that not be 1000 WOMEN were for sale? I never knew there is such a massive gay prossie scene??

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:49 AM

    Why not contact the author first to point out clearly what you knew was a mistake.

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    Mute Jack Eagle
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    Aug 17th 2012, 12:07 PM

    Hey Norman,
    I was just making a comment, I wasn’t sure it was a mistake! I simply put the question out there, it was subsequently changed by the author. How was I to know whether it was 1000 men or women for sale, I don’t exactly avail of a prostitutes service either on a regular or irregular basis. Perhaps you can draw upon your experience to give an immediate answer!! In any event by making a comment here is as such putting the author on notice, also I wasn’t the only one to point out what appeared to be mistake!!!

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Aug 17th 2012, 12:26 PM

    Your comment to me contradicts your first comment.As to my experience or lack thereof,how is that relevent to my response to your first post.It still would have been more polite to contact the author first.Your answer somebody else done it aswell,great excuse.

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    Mute Jack Eagle
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    Aug 17th 2012, 12:53 PM

    Where is the contradiction?

    Relevance = Perhaps you have more knowledge of that scene than I do, thereby you can easily spot the mistake! In other words you can draw upon that vastly superior knowledge to answer my question.

    Yes agreed it is always polite to contact the author directly when a mistake is made. Now let me clarify myself one last time…..I was not directly pointing out a mistake, because for all I knew it could had been 1000 men for sale each week. I put the question in an open forum in respect of the ‘Published’ article, unless I am mistaken again but I thought that was the purpose of an open forum or comment section, ie. to ask questions or share our knowledge of a particular topic. Correct me if I am wrong.

    Somebody else done it………….not an excuse. Just a fact.

    Now Mr Hunter, I am bored of this so run along and have your petty argument with somebody else.

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Aug 17th 2012, 1:07 PM

    My only knowledge is my ability to read.Clearly you decided to ignore the article and seek mistakes instead.No arguement but you are obviously out of your depth conversation wise when you suggest someone “run along”.Finished commenting to you.But for your reference there is a “Contact Author Button”beside authors pic incase you are incensed by any mistakes bye now.

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    Mute SnappyJ
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    Aug 17th 2012, 4:19 PM

    Sweden it seems, has never fully investigated the impact their laws have had on prostitutes, or as I prefer to call them – sex workers. It does however like to throw about stats ‘proving’ that they’ve curtailed prostitution in their country. All well and good I hear you say; but it’s far from the truth. In 2004, prior to implementing Sweden’s exported moral law, a report by the Norwegian justice ministry “cited evidence of an ‘increased fear of attack’ among Swedish prostitutes, who found it harder to assess their clients because transactions had to be agreed hastily or on the telephone.” Even in 2001, the United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW) expressed concern that “the Swedish legislation may have rendered prostitutes more vulnerable, and asked the Swedish Government to evaluate the effects of the law.”

    Legalising prostitution would offer an honest, societal government driven support system for the sex workers. Not an ideologically, moral, religious driven propaganda machine, but an actual support service to these workers. No system is going to achieve perfection. What you want is a system that protects the people that are going to be involved. Ultimately, they’re the ones that suffer. People have to decide whether they want prostitution to be visible, or if they’d prefer the menace of invisibility. One would hope that society could allocate the resources to take the menace out of it full stop. Legalisation and regulation can mean discreetness and safety

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    Mute Sharrow
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    Aug 17th 2012, 12:37 PM

    Anna need the rights denied to her due to the UN articles on the rights of the child not being ratified.
    Anna needed to be taken into care and away from her abusive/neglectful caregiver.
    Anna didn’t need paying for sex between two consenting adults to be illegal.

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    Mute Stewie Griffin
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:07 PM

    huys if you are submitting via iphone it does get very buggy when you hit send. best to stick with pc or copy what you type before you click send just in case :)

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    Mute Stewie Griffin
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:07 PM

    guys *** ;)

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    Mute Annie Cleare
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    Aug 17th 2012, 2:38 PM

    @stewie sorry do not know as much about prostitution as you seem to do, my apologies

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    Mute Damocles
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    Aug 17th 2012, 2:45 PM

    He seems to know that Amsterdam isn’t in Germany.

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    Mute Stewie Griffin
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    Aug 17th 2012, 2:49 PM

    evidently not. nor geography for that matter

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    Mute SL
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    Aug 17th 2012, 11:06 AM

    2nd last paragraph has a mistake. “1000 men for sale”

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    Mute Diarmuid Brennan
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    Aug 17th 2012, 6:35 PM

    The reporter is very vague in her facts, i would suggest rather than quote”they” and other vague words she should state the facts! How is prostitution working in holland legally! Does it work, what do the prostitutes who do it for a living think of it.

    There will always be prostitutes male and female, we amnimals driven by sex! Fact is sex sells,

    How many here knew that Dublin hadn’t the biggest red light district in europe in 1900! Then the catholic church got to power nowdays familes in ireland can hardly talk about sex to their kids without feeling uncomfortable! Amazing the wy the country changed

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    Mute Terry O'Dowd
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    Aug 17th 2012, 9:11 PM

    Bastard

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    Mute Annie
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    Aug 17th 2012, 7:21 PM

    As do I Damocles but no problem you keep it up. I know your one of the grammar police also!

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    Mute Terry O'Dowd
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    Aug 17th 2012, 9:14 PM

    Sex, paedophile,
    I think they are the only words I used which could be deemed controversial.
    What’s up with my post not showing up?

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    Mute Shanti Om
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    Aug 17th 2012, 10:02 PM

    I’m getting lots of errors too man, and there wasn’t even any swear words or controversial things.. Just a polite reply.. Sometimes the journal is well buggy, you need to clipboard your comment before submitting.. Something I keep saying I’m gonna do and forgetting to :(

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    Mute Terry O'Dowd
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    Aug 17th 2012, 9:11 PM

    What’s the deal here?
    I’ve tried to post a comment 6 or 7 times. I’ve clicked the “Share comment on Facebook” box. It has shown up on my page, but it has not shown up here.
    I guarantee this one appears immediately.

    You say that you don’t block certain words, but I’d have to disagree with that.

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