Advertisement

We need your help now

Support from readers like you keeps The Journal open.

You are visiting us because we have something you value. Independent, unbiased news that tells the truth. Advertising revenue goes some way to support our mission, but this year it has not been enough.

If you've seen value in our reporting, please contribute what you can, so we can continue to produce accurate and meaningful journalism. For everyone who needs it.

Watch: The Public Services Card - should we care?

Earlier this afternoon Irish Times columnist Noel Whelan and Digital Rights Ireland’s Simon McGarr had a frank exchange of views on the issue at TheJournal.ie HQ.

TheJournal.ie / YouTube

THE PUBLIC SERVICES Card is an issue that has been creating plenty of headlines in recent times.

But is it something that the public at large should be really concerned about? Or is it more of a storm in a teacup?

Earlier this evening, we were live on Facebook with Irish Times columnist Noel Whelan and solicitor with Digital Rights Ireland Simon McGarr, with the two having a frank exchange of views on the subject.

Watch the full video above, and share your experiences with news@thejournal.ie

Read: Taoiseach insists Public Services Card is not a national identity card

Read: A row about ID cards lasted years and cost the UK billions. Then Theresa May scrapped them

Readers like you are keeping these stories free for everyone...
A mix of advertising and supporting contributions helps keep paywalls away from valuable information like this article. Over 5,000 readers like you have already stepped up and support us with a monthly payment or a once-off donation.

Close
76 Comments
This is YOUR comments community. Stay civil, stay constructive, stay on topic. Please familiarise yourself with our comments policy here before taking part.
Leave a Comment
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Anastasia
    Favourite Anastasia
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 6:59 PM

    Got one no problem for me if you have nothing to hide what’s the problem

    179
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Neal Ireland Hello.
    Favourite Neal Ireland Hello.
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 7:01 PM

    @Anastasia: You’ll find out what the problem is when your data gets misused.

    187
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Fiona deFreyne
    Favourite Fiona deFreyne
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 7:02 PM

    @Anastasia: send me your personal data.

    89
    See 29 more replies ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Neal Ireland Hello.
    Favourite Neal Ireland Hello.
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 7:03 PM

    Meant to add: I have many things things to hide, because I value my privacy and that of my loved ones.

    77
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kerry Blake
    Favourite Kerry Blake
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 7:06 PM

    @Anastasia: I’ve got nothing to hide but why do I need a card to apply for a passport or driving license?

    81
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute David Conroy
    Favourite David Conroy
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 7:12 PM

    @Neal Ireland Hello.: Data ? Name and address on my bin and phone book. Banking information and signature on my cheques, DOB on Facebook. Tesco know what I will buy for the next 10 years and will know if I have a drink problem or whether will need heart surgery in the next 20 years. Mrs. Murphy in the Post Office knows my financial business and Ciaran the Pharmacist knows what my ailments are. What’s Left ?

    64
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Fiona deFreyne
    Favourite Fiona deFreyne
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 7:14 PM

    @Kerry Blake: or for birth, marriage and death certificates, any all or any public services and utilities.

    It would not surprise me if the entitlement to vote will depend on production of a public services card.

    34
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Fiona deFreyne
    Favourite Fiona deFreyne
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 7:17 PM

    @David Conroy: PPS and tax details will be referenced.

    If anyone penetrates the security, it will be a massive potential for identity theft.

    42
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute iohanx
    Favourite iohanx
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 7:32 PM

    @Fiona deFreyne: not sure what the problem is, the data is there already, the new card is connecting the dots. People want their taxes accounted for right? people want equality right? So long as the data is maintain properly there should not be a problem for ordinary decent citizens!

    27
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Patabake Kennedy
    Favourite Patabake Kennedy
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 7:37 PM

    @David Conroy: That was all done voluntarily.

    20
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Fiona deFreyne
    Favourite Fiona deFreyne
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 7:39 PM

    @iohanx: connecting all the dots and you are confident that security will never be breached, the information will never be abused, Sicial, Protection and An Garda Siochana routinely disclose data to private investigators, and in a digital world where hacking is an unrelenting threat.

    If a criminal gets his or her hands on a person’s Public Services Card, there will be havoc.

    I don’t trust the competence and capability of the State to prevent abuse.

    ICCL have pointed out significant other concerns.

    44
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Emmet Dillane
    Favourite Emmet Dillane
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 7:41 PM

    @Anastasia:
    It’s an attempt to introduce a National Identity Card by stealth. In a manner which is illegal.

    54
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Emmet Dillane
    Favourite Emmet Dillane
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 7:45 PM

    Much in the manner Fine Gael tried to introduce a private water company by stealth.

    53
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Arthur Woods
    Favourite Arthur Woods
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 8:31 PM

    @Kerry Blake: because there are people out there who commit fraud.. now get your card and get over yourself

    15
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kerry Blake
    Favourite Kerry Blake
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 8:39 PM

    @Arthur Woods: So you think those who are committing fraud will sign up for this card. Really???

    BTW I already have the card as it was originally issued before the FG decided to introduce an identity card through the back door.

    18
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute David Conroy
    Favourite David Conroy
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 8:43 PM

    @Fiona deFreyne: Fiona, that is not highly sensitive information as both appear on my Salary/Pension advice slip. The card is the key to all the agencies and all the information is encrypted and even if that was broken they would just get useless bits and at the end of the day, I am here to dispute anyone’s claim to my person and the card will prove me right.

    6
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kerry Blake
    Favourite Kerry Blake
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 8:49 PM

    @David Conroy: Your job is to protect that data on your salary/pension advice slip. Though as you apparently get your salary/pension advice on paper it’s apparent you work for maybe a state department who hasn’t caught up with such things as on line statements?

    12
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute David Conroy
    Favourite David Conroy
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 8:50 PM

    @Patabake Kennedy: I still cannot see what the Conspiracy Theorists can see. All my information connected with my card would be useless for anyone who wants to take my identity and they would have to get plastic surgery as well.

    5
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Arthur Woods
    Favourite Arthur Woods
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 9:01 PM

    @Kerry Blake: no but it will be harder to fraudulently use services if you don’t have one

    6
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kerry Blake
    Favourite Kerry Blake
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 9:05 PM

    @Arthur Woods: But why should someone who is not accessing services need this card to get a passport or driving license as they have to pay for that service?

    18
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute lavbeer
    Favourite lavbeer
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 9:17 PM

    @Kerry Blake: whilst I agree with your point about expanding beyond SW – but isn’t getting a passport availing of a public service?

    5
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kerry Blake
    Favourite Kerry Blake
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 9:26 PM

    @lavbeer: No as you have to pay for getting your passport,

    16
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute lavbeer
    Favourite lavbeer
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 9:36 PM

    @Kerry Blake: you have to pay to go to a hospital as well. That’s a public service. Paying for it isn’t a deciding factor

    6
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute iohanx
    Favourite iohanx
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 9:41 PM

    @Fiona deFreyne: there is a risk crossing a road

    3
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kerry Blake
    Favourite Kerry Blake
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 9:42 PM

    @lavbeer: Currently I do not have to produce a PSC before accessing a hospital….

    8
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Blah blah
    Favourite Blah blah
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 9:43 PM

    @Anastasia: I know people who are up in arms over the government having their data…same people who post pics of their kids on Facebook, who post status saying they are on holidays/out of the house etc….for the world too see!!

    6
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kerry Blake
    Favourite Kerry Blake
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 9:56 PM

    @Blah blah: But that is their choice unlike being told you need this card to apply for a passport or drivers license…..

    19
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute lavbeer
    Favourite lavbeer
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 10:34 PM

    @Kerry Blake: fair point so you see this as a social welfare card? Which indeed seemed to be the original intention and phase 2 is to add it to other services. I do agree it is a national card by stealth. Not debated but I think it is a good idea

    5
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Patabake Kennedy
    Favourite Patabake Kennedy
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 11:59 PM

    @Kerry Blake: If this crowd is offering something for nothing, it will cost an arm and a leg.

    2
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Anastasia
    Favourite Anastasia
    Report
    Sep 6th 2017, 8:56 AM

    @Neal Ireland Hello.: There are lots with personal data Banks, Doctors,Hospitals or do you not have to go to doctors luck you

    1
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Anastasia
    Favourite Anastasia
    Report
    Sep 6th 2017, 8:56 AM

    @Fiona deFreyne: No thanks

    1
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Jho Harris
    Favourite Jho Harris
    Report
    Sep 6th 2017, 10:28 AM

    @David Conroy: You have a great point but Tesco don’t know what I will buy over the next 10 years but if they really want to know, it is a fat big zero unless they get TV for 20c etc

    1
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Andrew Dowling
    Favourite Andrew Dowling
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 7:06 PM

    The problem is the underhand way the politicians operate. There is obviously some issue with identity cards. So rather than sort out the issues they try manipulate other options to suit their needs.

    102
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Fiona deFreyne
    Favourite Fiona deFreyne
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 7:09 PM

    @Andrew Dowling: fair and accurate comment.

    61
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Fiona deFreyne
    Favourite Fiona deFreyne
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 7:18 PM

    A public services card database with end to end fully integrated data on all aspects of a person’s life will provide the State with an invaluable commercial database.

    39
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kal Ipers
    Favourite Kal Ipers
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 8:34 PM

    @Fiona deFreyne: you do get it isn’t one central database? It is one shared identification to access data in DIFFERENT databases. They can’t sell such data, national and EU laws cover this in detail.

    17
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kerry Blake
    Favourite Kerry Blake
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 8:44 PM

    @Kal Ipers: Yeah sure Kal they will just let hackers access the data.
    BTW if you have “different” databases connecting to a central point then all data is available to that point.

    16
    See 14 more replies ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kal Ipers
    Favourite Kal Ipers
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 8:47 PM

    @Kerry Blake: what you just said is hysterically funny. A case of very little knowledge leads you to a wildly inaccurate conclusion

    2
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kerry Blake
    Favourite Kerry Blake
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 8:52 PM

    @Kal Ipers: Well Kal I’d beg to differ. What do you not understand about one “SHARED” id connecting to different databases??

    12
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kal Ipers
    Favourite Kal Ipers
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 8:53 PM

    @Kerry Blake: I worked on the PSC and what is your knowledge on the subject

    2
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kerry Blake
    Favourite Kerry Blake
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 9:08 PM

    @Kal Ipers: Oh about 30 years working in the IT industry. I answered your question how about answering my question?

    13
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kal Ipers
    Favourite Kal Ipers
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 9:11 PM

    @Kerry Blake: I worked on the project and what you are say is nonsense and certainly not the knowledge of an experienced IT professional.

    3
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kerry Blake
    Favourite Kerry Blake
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 9:17 PM

    @Kal Ipers: So your refusing to answer my question. Well that fills me with confidence. But I’m kind so I’ll try again.

    “What do you not understand about one “SHARED” id connecting to different databases”

    12
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute lavbeer
    Favourite lavbeer
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 9:24 PM

    @Kerry Blake: what about security on the databases? You need to be permissioned to access?

    And even if database integration was complete and a single profile of each citizen was available- what would the problem be.

    1
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kerry Blake
    Favourite Kerry Blake
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 9:32 PM

    @lavbeer: The problem would be do you want a civil servant to be able to inspect all your personal details on a whim be they financial or medical?

    Apparently one of those who worked on this project has already said there is a shared id…..

    12
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute lavbeer
    Favourite lavbeer
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 9:43 PM

    @Kerry Blake: you have completely misunderstood what Kal said.

    1
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute DaisyChainsaw
    Favourite DaisyChainsaw
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 9:56 PM

    @lavbeer: You worked on the PSC? In what capacity?

    7
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kerry Blake
    Favourite Kerry Blake
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 9:59 PM

    @lavbeer: Nope I just dismissed him/her who has not worked in the real world and doesn’t understand things. Like a shared id.

    7
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute lavbeer
    Favourite lavbeer
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 10:46 PM

    @Kerry Blake: And di you think that shared Is is there now? It isn’t. It should be via PPS but it’s not imho and I say that as an outsider. The PSC doesn’t change that

    1
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute lavbeer
    Favourite lavbeer
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 10:46 PM

    @DaisyChainsaw: I didn’t claim to.

    2
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kal Ipers
    Favourite Kal Ipers
    Report
    Sep 6th 2017, 7:31 AM

    @Kerry Blake: a list of the card information is sent to each database.There is no shared connection DSP do not share information with the HSE. A civil servant can’t look up your medical records. It is done via batch so no connection between the databases. There have always been some shared data but again no real time information, revenue have to send DSP information to make sure you qualify.

    1
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Jarlath Murphy
    Favourite Jarlath Murphy
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 8:02 PM

    Its OK I know exactly who I am so I wont need this, thanks all the same!

    They will be looking to tattoo us with our PPS numbers at this rate!

    36
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Fiona deFreyne
    Favourite Fiona deFreyne
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 7:21 PM

    Irish Water wanted my PPs, the Bank demanded my PPS and the GP now wants my PPS even though I’m a private patient.

    39
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Fiona deFreyne
    Favourite Fiona deFreyne
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 7:44 PM

    Identity theft is the primary concern.

    Data hacking is a second concern.

    Abuse of the data for ulterior purposes by the State is my third concern.

    39
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute dangermouse
    Favourite dangermouse
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 7:04 PM

    The state is following you through out your life birth cert,children’s allowance,RSI number , tax,car tax,voting card . EIRCODE

    41
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute @mdmak33
    Favourite @mdmak33
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 9:55 PM

    The public have no trust in this government or civil servants.this is not to benefit the public,it’s to make it easier for them to squeeze more from people’s wages.end game is total control of people’s lives,we need them all removed from Leinster house.

    24
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Hans Vos
    Favourite Hans Vos
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 9:02 PM

    Waiting for insurance company’s to get their hand on it and then to hike prices. (again)

    16
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Dave Doyle
    Favourite Dave Doyle
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 7:51 PM

    I posed 6 questions the other night. Now since the video is unavailable, i’ll never know if they were dealt with.

    12
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute lavbeer
    Favourite lavbeer
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 9:29 PM

    @Dave Doyle: I watched the first 0 minutes and learned nothing. Simon has some good stuff online which both of us have used Whelan took the government line. Another commentator put 16 questions online last night. But they didn’t get far on specifics if the first 10 was to go by

    3
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Dave Doyle
    Favourite Dave Doyle
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 10:41 PM

    @lavbeer: I watched all of it when i managed to get it going. Overall i was disappointed in the discussion. It done nothing to reassure anyone that their personal data is being protected. In fact your rights under EU law to data protection wasn’t even mentioned.

    10
    See 1 more reply ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute lavbeer
    Favourite lavbeer
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 10:48 PM

    @Dave Doyle: fair enough- I made the right decision to quit after 10 so !!!!

    1
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Dave Doyle
    Favourite Dave Doyle
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 7:09 PM

    Video Unavailable. I cannot see it.

    8
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Dave Doyle
    Favourite Dave Doyle
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 10:35 PM

    Once more my comment isn’t allowed. It simply dealt with my opinion of the above discussion. And the fact i had a reply from my query about the card from the EU, Europe Direct, and roughly what it said.

    7
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute robert lester
    Favourite robert lester
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 8:47 PM

    Another classic f****up by the Fianna Gael party. I’ve nothing to hide and I don’t want one.

    34
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Terry Lawlor
    Favourite Terry Lawlor
    Report
    Sep 5th 2017, 10:06 PM

    What’s a Data Protecshion Commishioner?

    3
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Trevor Hayden
    Favourite Trevor Hayden
    Report
    Sep 6th 2017, 2:21 PM

    I wonder why my post linking these cards to Irish water has been removed?
    Are INM not impressed with the journal publishing my comments?

    2
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Seamus Kelleher
    Favourite Seamus Kelleher
    Report
    Sep 6th 2017, 5:44 PM

    I have a card it was given to me when I went to claim unemployment I was told the card was being up dated at no time was I told it would have to be used as an identity card at other government offices no was I told biometric data was being stored on said card this is how they got 2.5 million to except same i think you know you’re in trouble when your government can not guarantee the protection of your data …regina said so

    2
Submit a report
Please help us understand how this comment violates our community guidelines.
Thank you for the feedback
Your feedback has been sent to our team for review.

Leave a commentcancel

 
JournalTv
News in 60 seconds