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Poll: Would taking disciplinary action against gardaí over fake breath tests be 'a waste of time'?

Fianna Fáil’s Jim O’Callaghan has suggested that attempting to prosecute individual gardaí would be an exercise in futility.

THIS MORNING, FIANNA Fáil spokesperson on justice Jim O’Callaghan has described the idea of disciplining individual gardaí over the fake breath test scandal as being an exercise in futility.

Quoted in the Sunday Times, O’Callaghan said that it is “highly unlikely” that gardaí will be disciplined as, given over 1.4 million false tests were recorded, the sheer magnitude of the cases involved suggest that faking tests was widespread “practice” as opposed to anything that could be pinned on an individual.

O’Callaghan, who suggests that focus would be better applied by ensuring that the information gardaí disseminate to the public is accurate going forward, is directly at odds with Taoiseach Leo Varadkar on the issue, who has said that there should be individual accountability for anyone found to have faked a test.

But who do you agree with?

We’re asking: Would taking disciplinary action against gardaí over fake breath tests be ‘a waste of time’?


Poll Results:

Yes (3024)
No (2794)
Yes, but it should happen anyway (2444)
I don't know (159)

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67 Comments
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    Mute mickmc
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    Sep 17th 2017, 10:46 AM

    Didn’t FF said something similar about their friends in the bank a few years back.

    181
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    Mute Gus Sheridan
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    Sep 17th 2017, 11:07 AM

    @mickmc: Ahhh Fianna Fail, the party that takes from the poor to give to the rich, just like their buddies in FG.Keep voting for these crooked bast**ards and nothing will ever change. Unfortunately SF are hanging onto Adams, and while they continue to do that few people will vote SF for no matter what Gerry says, the public associate him with the IRA. SF have some brilliant people who are not tainted by the recent past.At the moment voting in Ireland is like playing Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun, whatever happens, you lose.I guess the trick is to vote fir the tiny political parties that have sprung up in the last few years, after all none of them can be as bad as Brian Clown or Edna Kenny. What do YOU think?

    118
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    Mute mickmc
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    Sep 17th 2017, 11:49 AM

    @Gus Sheridan: Brillant people like Jonathan Dowdall? Your right about Adams alright. Get rid of him and you would gain yourself a few seats. However who’s willing to risk their kneecaps by taking him on. You could also improve your chances by perhaps looking after the working people of the country rather than just the working class who lets face it couldn’t find a job even if they looked for one. Sinn Fein wants to be all things to everyone which will work for a while but sooner or later the public will see you for what you are. A party who given time will do a better job at destroying the country than FF could ever imagine doing.

    29
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    Mute Mark Walsh
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    Sep 17th 2017, 10:51 AM

    They broke the law should answer to it
    What else have Garda faked in order to get their way
    No Tribunal bull just prosecute each individual Garda who faked tests and sack them along with sentence
    No individuals should be above the law’ these people are there to protect citizens

    149
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    Mute Thomas Murray
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    Sep 17th 2017, 11:30 AM

    @Mark Walsh: which law was it exactly that they broke?

    46
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    Mute Larry Doyle
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    Sep 17th 2017, 11:50 AM

    @Thomas Murray: Is there not a law against wasting police time?

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    Mute Thomas Murray
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    Sep 17th 2017, 12:37 PM

    @Larry Doyle: are you saying the gardai should be prosecuted with wasting garda time? So inception rather than deception?

    8
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    Mute Paul Gurney
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    Sep 17th 2017, 12:54 PM

    @Thomas Murray: falsifying legal documents Thomas..try to keep up likre a good man

    21
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    Mute Thomas Murray
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    Sep 17th 2017, 2:01 PM

    @Paul Gurney: legal documents? Tell me exactly what court or court case was the number of breath tests carried out by Gardai going to be used as evidence? Producing bogus figures to the media doesn’t count as legal documents. Go back to watching CSI there as I’m sure that’s where you get your expertise from.

    16
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    Mute Mairtín
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    Sep 17th 2017, 3:09 PM

    @Thomas Murray: Deceiving those in authority, falsifying official Records. If do this on the side of the road, what happens in court.

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    Mute Mairtín
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    Sep 17th 2017, 3:09 PM

    @Mairtín: ‘Perjury ‘!!!

    4
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    Mute Richard Sweeney
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    Sep 17th 2017, 11:09 AM

    Looks like Hook will lose his job over an opinion. Any Gardai to lose their jobs over this? No accountability or responsibility from the top down in this country. Amazing that they could get that pay rise after systemic abuse and failure at all levels in AGS.

    81
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    Mute Arnold Lane
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    Sep 17th 2017, 10:44 AM

    Of course it would be a waste of time, this is Ireland where there is no accountability for anything. We could have a review or inquiry or a tribunal, piss away millions of Euros and then nothing happens.

    126
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    Mute Paul Fahey
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    Sep 17th 2017, 10:49 AM

    @Arnold Lane: well why don’t we finally change our ways? If we allow this to pass, nothing will change. Let’s be clear this is quite clearly an indication if widespread Garda dishonesty and corruption, which questions the very foundation of criminal justice in the country. Sorry, but let’s start to be a true Republic.

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    Mute Arnold Lane
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    Sep 17th 2017, 10:57 AM

    @Paul Fahey: Allow this to pass, or the light sentencing to repeat offenders to pass or our financial criminals walk free to pass. It’s a hard to do when the government supporters their corruption.

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    Mute Virtual Architect
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    Sep 17th 2017, 2:49 PM

    @Paul Fahey: Punish the bosses first. Worry about the rest later. Otherwise it’s an utter waste of time.

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    Mute Paul Fahey
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    Sep 17th 2017, 6:25 PM

    @Virtual Architect: nonsense, punish them all and if there is evidence look at conspiracy offences too. There is evidence at criminal behaviour here and justice must be seen to be done.

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    Mute Leo Massey
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    Sep 17th 2017, 10:42 AM

    As long as every other citizen gets one ‘get out of jail free card’.

    102
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    Mute Michael Hayden
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    Sep 17th 2017, 11:00 AM

    @Blarneykite: just committ them all at the same time they’ll all be lumped together when charged

    28
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    Mute winston smith
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    Sep 17th 2017, 10:58 AM

    Reduce all their pensions by 10% which would save the state hundreds of millions of euro.

    55
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    Mute Dave O Keeffe
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    Sep 17th 2017, 10:46 AM

    Assuming that taking disciplinary action means actually punishing those guilty then it couldn’t possibly be a waste of time

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    Mute Gulliver Foyle
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    Sep 17th 2017, 11:15 AM

    @Dave O Keeffe: is it actually against the law to be corrupt in Ireland? Maybe pass a law that if you are a corrupt guard, you will be brought to court and fined as well as fired. If you are a public service manager who forces staff to be corrupt, you should be jailed. This should be the law for everyone – including gardai and politicians.

    47
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    Mute Andy K
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    Sep 17th 2017, 10:52 AM

    Missing the option:
    Pursue corruption charges on the garda and on any higher ranks that knew about it and let it happen.

    49
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    Mute Fiona deFreyne
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    Sep 17th 2017, 10:59 AM

    Faking tests was wrong, likely criminal, widespread and embedded in An Garda Siochana. It is part of a wider tapestry of abuse of power in An Garda Siochana, as revealed in countless reports of Tribunals and investigations.

    There will no accountability or consequence, just evasion and spin.

    Garda intelligence was once claimed to be an oxymoron.

    Garda integrity is certainly an exymore, an especially glaring one.

    The whistle blowers reveal only the tip of the tip.

    61
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    Mute The Risen
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    Sep 17th 2017, 10:55 AM

    Definitely. But we need to know where the direction came from originally, otherwise we are treating ghe symptom rather than the rot.

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    Mute The Risen
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    Sep 17th 2017, 11:04 AM

    * Definitely not.

    The choice could not be more stark. We either accept endemic falsification of figures by our police force or we do something about it.

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    Mute Jarlath Murphy
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    Sep 17th 2017, 10:59 AM

    They didn’t rob the bank, they merely “elevated” the money!

    On a positive note it appears that crime has evaporated in Ireland following a review of the figures using the new Garda Lexicon!

    We now live in a crime free utopia!

    29
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    Mute Brian O Reilly
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    Sep 17th 2017, 11:02 AM

    The State could not ,should not prosecute the rank and file,any dissenting Gardai would have been penalised if he /she did not comply with directives coming down the chain of command.But we need a clean out off those officers at the top ,they have to go

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    Mute Larry Doyle
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    Sep 17th 2017, 11:05 AM

    “Just following orders”

    29
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    Mute Dermot Lane
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    Sep 17th 2017, 11:18 AM

    Typical Fianna Fail response, typical of their policy towards backhanders and corruption since they came into existence and one of the reasons we have such a dysfunctional state.

    39
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    Mute Michael farrelly
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    Sep 17th 2017, 12:28 PM

    So, the reasoning is because of the magnitude of the numbers of gardai who committed this crime Hereford nobody should be prosecuted. It’s like saying if we had a large outbreak of people being shot or burglaries nobody should be prosecuted because of the numbers. This type of logic defies belief. Only in this banana republic.

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    Mute Larry Doyle
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    Sep 17th 2017, 11:03 AM

    Listening to anything Miriam’s little brother has to say is an exercise in futilely.

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    Mute Niall Ó Cofaigh
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    Sep 17th 2017, 12:13 PM

    Ask any whistle-blower with it is like to stand up to managers or colleagues before deciding if there should be any action taken against any individual, particularly where an individual was following “normal” practice….

    Unfortunately in a society that is driven my numbers and statistics and performance is rewarded based upon reporting there is a serious risk of this type of thing happening – for the guard who does 10 breath tests in an hour may be “rewarded” more then the guard who does 2 and spent some time helping someone with a child seat/seatbelt issue…. (just trying to think of an example where a guard may be helping people (even just giving advice and directions) which does not show up in the statistics).

    That there does need to be changes is beyond any doubt – but I believe that it needs a change of thinking on all sides moving forward and looking back at the past should be a lesson learning exercise, not a witch hunt against individuals.

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    Mute Paula Nolan
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    Sep 17th 2017, 12:25 PM

    Asking rank-and-file gardaí to report to Superintendents as a means to ‘investigate’ is a very common mistake made when setting up internal investigations. You are asking people who are already compromised to further compromise themselves by reporting to the very people likely to be more a part of the problem than they are, and who have the power to make the lower ranked person’s life, and career, a misery. 80% of cases of workplace conflict involve complaints against management, and in 80% of cases, management wins. Even when Human Resources or top management introduce an outside investigation, there is the imbalance caused by he who pays the piper calling the tune. This is why only whistleblowers tend to get the truth across: they have often been so compromised as to reach a state where they really don’t care any more about their own sorry fate, and so in effect become modern-day martyrs. Forget the internal investigation. Change the systems that allowed the fake breath tests to go un-policed (excuse the pun), draw a line, move on.

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    Mute Tony Hartigan
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    Sep 17th 2017, 12:07 PM

    What morals had these guys even as the GRA say they were instructed to massage the figures did they not say NO ! knowing what they were doing was wrong and maybe illegal

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    Mute David W
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    Sep 17th 2017, 11:51 AM

    And who exactly is going to do the investigation and disciplinaries? The managers who knew about it and ordered it to continue. Or is there an expectation that every Garda will be assigned another Garda to investigate and they’ll all hang each other. Unlikely. Ireland needs a new police force with new leadership and AGS gradually phased out. We don’t have the political will or money for that though. Best to just move on and accept it.

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    Mute Jason Mulligan
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    Sep 17th 2017, 11:31 AM

    If it doesn’t cost a load of tax payers money that can be provided to other causes such as the homeless, we have everything in court these days as well as inquests. The money that is wasted and then lines other people’s pockets which in turn due to tax that is paid on it lines the government pockets again is just a money train….

    11
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    Mute I Pee Freely
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    Sep 17th 2017, 11:03 AM

    Yes little point in sacking them tho a demotion or deduct a number of weeks pay should be given to those involved.

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    Mute Bob Murphy
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    Sep 17th 2017, 1:56 PM

    Of course they should. Any Gardai that broke the law need to brought to court and named and shamed.Why should they be different from any member of society.It also begs the question what else is being covered up in that corrupt institution after they took an oath on entering this force to uphold the law of the land.
    69% of this Poll have voted for action to be taken, I wonder who the 31% who voted NO are ??

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    Mute Mark Foy
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    Sep 17th 2017, 3:36 PM

    They broke the law. And because of that peoples insurances would have went up. The way I like to think about it is, these are the only things that they were caught doing. What are the things that haven’t surfaced yet…all guards responsible should be held accountable for their actions. And if Noreen is found guilty of anything I think her 100k annual pension should be taken away, as well as her 300k retirement fund….

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    Mute Karl Charlie O'Reilly
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    Sep 17th 2017, 1:01 PM

    well its falsifying info which can be viewed as gross misconduct which is a sackable offence in normal jobs

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    Mute Craig Hughes
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    Sep 17th 2017, 12:16 PM

    No point
    The force will get away with it as they do with everything else waste of the tax payers money

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    Mute keith mahon
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    Sep 17th 2017, 12:13 PM

    I think the tax paying/Taken gombeens should stop funding corruption . Accessorys after the facts is a crime. What a oppressed nazi nation ireland is.

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    Mute Alan Scott
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    Sep 17th 2017, 2:40 PM

    The Gardai are no different from anyone else Anyone involved should face suspension if proven guilty. Gardai knew what was going in beefing up the figures the ex Commissioner got out to save her own skin but should be hauled back and held unaccountable and responsible she should be stripped of her pension

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    Mute Joe Smith
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    Sep 17th 2017, 2:11 PM

    No. As much they may believe it, they are not above the law

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    Mute Anthony Halpin
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    Sep 17th 2017, 12:44 PM

    About as useful as polishing the brass fittings on the Titanic as it sank.

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    Mute Thomas Maher
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    Sep 17th 2017, 4:54 PM

    Yes disciplinary action should be taken. But i would more inclined to take disciplinary action against the superintendents, inspectors and assistance commissioners and any other officers and management who were responsible for the imposition of unrealistic quotas.
    Which resulted in ordinary garda being forced to make up numbers or face disciplinary action for not reaching these unrealistic quotas.

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    Mute von
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    Sep 17th 2017, 4:17 PM

    Not the traffic gardai, if they were told to do it by their Superiors why should they take the rap.

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    Mute Mark Luxford
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    Sep 17th 2017, 4:20 PM

    @Thomas Murray: it’s called fraud.

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    Mute Virtual Architect
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    Sep 17th 2017, 2:46 PM

    There was no option for “Corruption starts at the top. Punish the bosses first. It will take so long to get to the troops on the ground it won’t affect them.” so i couldn’t vote.

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    Mute Barry Doyle
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    Sep 17th 2017, 1:18 PM

    @Thomas Murray: inception…. love that movie

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    Mute Eugene Comaskey
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    Sep 17th 2017, 1:59 PM

    I strongly recommend that Micheal Martin instruct that clown O’Callaghan to shut up, leave it to Mary Lou, Daly, Wallace, and the mucky left to carry on .

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    Mute Steve Dunne
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    Nov 24th 2017, 3:02 PM

    The garda broke the law, people went to jail over this, others had their lives ruined.
    so he is saying that garda are above the law, hmm smells like a dictatorship.
    the garda should be charged for false report on a legal document. if and normal person did this we go to jail.

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