We need your help now
Support from readers like you keeps The Journal open.
You are visiting us because we have something you value. Independent, unbiased news that tells the truth. Advertising revenue goes some way to support our mission, but this year it has not been enough.
If you've seen value in our reporting, please contribute what you can, so we can continue to produce accurate and meaningful journalism. For everyone who needs it.
Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
By continuing, you are indicating that you accept our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.
RYANAIR HAS LOST 140 pilots to competitor Norwegian Air this year alone.
The revelation comes as Ryanair plans to cancel hundreds of flights in the coming weeks.
Ryanair last week announced it plans to cancel 40-50 flights daily for the next six weeks (to the end of October) to improve its punctuality.
The airline said its punctuality has fallen below 80% in the first two weeks of September due to a number of reasons including air traffic control (ATC) strikes, weather disruptions and the impact of increased holiday allocation to pilots and cabin crew.
However the loss of pilots to competitor Norwegian, confirmed today, is believed to be exacerbating the issues at Ryanair.
In a statement, Norwegian Air said:
“We can confirm that 140 pilots have joined us from Ryanair this year. Pilot recruitment is also underway for more pilots for our new Dublin base opening later this year.
As an ambitious, growing airline with a huge aircraft order, Norwegian looks forward to welcoming many new pilots in the future on a journey that will offer exciting, global possibilities.
Ryanair has not responded for a request for comment on the pilot defections.
Cancellations
Ryanair has informed all passengers whose flights have been cancelled up to Wednesday, with a total of 56 flights cancelled today, 12 of which are departing from or arriving in Dublin.
The Commission has said that Ryanair may have to pay out compensation to passengers affected.
The Commission has said that if the cancellation notice given is less than two weeks, then compensation should be paid.
“If you have been affected by the Ryanair programme of flight cancellations you are entitled to a choice of refund or rerouting. Compensation may also be payable depending on the notice period Ryanair has given you,” the Commission said.
Compensation specifics
Aviation regulations say that an airline must provide at least two weeks notice to avoid paying compensation and they must then offer either “an alternative flight at the earliest opportunity or at a later date of your choice” or “a full refund of the ticket”.
The regulations say that if an airline can prove that the cancellation was caused by an extraordinary circumstance which could not have been avoided, then it does not have to pay compensation, but the Commission said that this doesn’t apply in this case of Ryanair cancellations.
The amount of compensation which could be owed depends on the flight distance. The compensation starts at €250 for flights up to 1,500km, €400 for 3,500km and all EU flights, and €600 for flights over 3,500km.
If the airline manages to reroute passengers to get them their final destination within certain timeframes, the compensation will be reduced by 50%.
In a statement on Friday, Ryanair said:
“By reducing its scheduled flying programme over the next six weeks by less than 2% (of its over 2,500 daily flights), the airline will create additional standby aircraft which will help restore on-time performance to its 90% average.
“Ryanair apologises sincerely for the inconvenience caused to customers by these cancellations. Customers will be contacted directly about this small number of cancellations and offered alternative flights or full refunds.”
With reporting by Paul Hosford
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
I heard from a guy who works for RA that it’s down to pilots and staff leaving the company – not holiday rosters.
@Honeybadger197: It is true. They lost 140 pilots to Norwegian so far.
Their pilots are treated terribly, no wonder they are jumping ship.
@Ace:
How are the pilots treated terribly?
@Nick Allen: Why dont you do a bit of research and find out for yourself.
@Ace:
I know lots of pilots who work in Ryanair and don’t agree. Why don’t you do some research before making things up and posting them on the internet
@Nick Allen: Sure you do.
@Ace:
Still no evidence of how they are treated terribly? Why bother making stuff up, would it not be better to just post what you know?
@Honeybadger197: Surely it is down to pilots and staff leaving the company – but you will never hear it from company itself. It is called MARKETING. Lies – capitalism foundations.
@Honeybadger197: they said it was due to staff leave. They didn’t say where they were leaving to
@Nick Allen: laziest argument ever. Waaahhh!!! If you don’t provide me with evidence then it’s not true wwwaaaahhhhhh!
You probably like to argue that God exists because no one has proven he doesn’t.
@Seth Cheffetz:
Looking for evidence that doesn’t exist is a lazy argument. You are contradicting yourself with your God analogy. As there is no evidence to say he exists than I wouldn’t argue that he does.
I think it is time for you to go back to school
@Seth Cheffetz: it is up to the person making the claim to provide evidence. I could say that you have an unhealthy fascination with goats but without any evidence that means that I made it up and it isn’t true. Any statement made on the internet is open to criticism and objectively false without evidence
@Nick Allen: http://norwaytoday.info/finance/ryanair-pilots-leaves-norwegian/ Some research for you.
@Denis Crowley:
I understand that and do not dispute that. However, that does not suggest that RyanAir treat their pilots terribly, which the accusation was. It can simply mean that Norwegian is offering better conditions. People leave jobs all the time and that doesn’t mean their employer treats them terribly. Ryanair pilots are made to work very hard and get well paid for doing so
Yes, @John Moynihan: I can verify @Seth Cheffetz’s very unhealthy fascination with goats (& chickens). Surely having 2 independent sources must mean it is true.
@Honeybadger197: agree, move over Ryanair, enter Norwegian airlines. Parent company Norwegian government. Aka Sovereign wealth
@iohanx:
Norwegian is a publicly listed company, it is not owned by the government. Either way a great airline to fly with. More comfy than Ryanair but on a 2 hour flight, for me anyway, cost and punctuality would come before the slightly nicer seats
@Conrad Shields:
It sure about his fascination with goats and chickens but he definitely doesn’t have any interest in critical thinking.
@Nick Allen: First Officers based in Spain paid less than €25k two years ago. Guy I know has to bring his own tea bags and lunch to work. It’s payback time and it bit them on the arse !
@David Conroy:
Ryanair pay the local market rate for their pilots, like all companies pay local market rate for employees. An FO starts on about 80k in Dublin. Moving jobs to earn more money with a competitor is not ‘pay back time’, it is market forces.
@Nick Allen: To be honest if people are happy in their jobs, most would not leave for slightly better terms and conditions. 140 plus pilots is a big loss. Leaving the largest pan European airline for essentially a smaller airline is not a great career move unless it is financially rewarding. An excerpt from Wikipedia; In 2012 the Ryanair Pilot Group (RPG) was formed, but to date has not been successful in its aim to represent the pilots flying for Ryanair as a collective bargaining unit. Ryanair faced criticism for allegedly forcing pilots to pay tens of thousands of euro for training, then establish limited companies in Ireland and work for Ryanair through an agency,[78] as well as forcing ground staff in Spain to open bank accounts in Gibraltar in which to receive their wages. This could be the beginning of the end. No pilots, no airline expansion and loss to competitors. Lose the staff. lose the business.
@Nick Allen: can you prove that you know lots of Ryanair pilots
@Nick Allen:
People get so furked up of your commenting would you ever get a job instead of in here 24-7
Or just change your user name
@Keith Crowe:
Bit of a daft question is it not? I am not going to prove personal information via this forum.
@Denis Crowley:
In order for Ryan to be able to retain and attract pilots they must be competitive on the market. Yes it is a problem for RyanAir and they need to address this but it still doesn’t say they have treated their pilots terribly.
It is reported that Ryanair pilots work very close to the maximum amount of flying hours per year (900). It is also reported that Aer Lingus pilots fly an average of 600 a year. Yes much more work but not treating pilots terribly.
@Fran Kembo:
If you don’t want to read my comments then I suggest you don’t bother or maybe just run along
@Nick Allen: @Nick Allen: If 12% of their pilots have walked in the past 12 months it can’t be anything else. Their Hunan Remains Dept would be struggling. I think you touched on the issue with the Maximum hours.
@Nick Allen: well then by your own standards we will have to discount your comment about knowing lots of Ryanair pilots
@Nick Allen: tell them do a few double shifts if ya know so many of them
@Nick Allen: gov have 50% stake
@Nick Allen:
I won’t be running anywhere !
I contributes to articles of interest
Without annoying and getting ppel !
Backs up unlike you
Why don’t you tell us Ace since you know ??? You’re a total nuisance here if you don’t . We want to hear the story .
What a person could do in light of these possible cancellations is purchase a cheap flight for €10 and hope that it gets cancelled. If it is then the person is entitled to compensation of a couple of hundred euro in return. Play them at their own game.
@EdmundOrlando: absolutely love it! Gold!
@EdmundOrlando: We Irish love gamble – we are happy to get half million mortgage like there will be only prosperity ahead and love to get few k’s holiday like Ryanair will only be flying each flight. If we loose, we usually go moaning at the Dail gate…
@EdmundOrlando: Ryanair are reportedly cancelling at the last minute. I suspect they will only compensate those who actually turn up for the flight. So you’d be putting yourself out quite a bit, to earn a few quid.
The Ryanair pilots situation is the perfect example to all those who insist on unions and strikes etc. If an employer treats staff badly they should leave, not go on strike. The employer will soon get the message. Ryanair has got the message, even to the point that they are offering a €10k signing on bonus. That is employees flexing their muscles in the correct way and much more effective than striking.
@Mary Murphy: For those not aware Ryanair have lost 140 pilots this year with most going to Norwegian…that is the real reason they have to cancel flights.
@Mary Murphy: if we were listening to you we would still work pitiable working conditions. Thanks we still have people fighting for something better
@Mary Murphy: I think you’ll find the pilots had an alternative, which offered better terms and conditions of employment. Not everyone in dispute with their employer would have the same chance to alleviate themselves of such pathetic employers.
@Paul Linehan: Please give me one example of someone who does not have an alternative?
@Eric: If we listened to you the Ryanair pilots would be unionised and gone on strike. Which would have left Ryanair with a great PR victory saying ‘it’s not us it’s the unions’.Meanwhile the pilots would lose pay for going on strike. Additionally the passengers would not be entitled to compensation. Now Ryanair are in a worse position as it’s all their fault and the passengers are getting compensation higher than the price of their tickets! It is hitting Ryanair hard in the pocket and we all know now they have to pay up!
@Mary Murphy: Everyone has an alternative….. If you want to sub reference my argument, then you’ve got an answer. But my point was not everyone has an alternative that offers better terms and conditions!!!! Read-Digest-Respond
@Paul Linehan:
If a person doesn’t have an alternative that offers better pay and conditions well then rather than waiting around for someone to hand it to them maybe they should improve there own position, most likely by upskilling.
@P.J. Nolan: Why would the alternative have to offer better pay and conditions, can equal pay and conditions not be enough?
Also if theres no alternative with better pay and conditions then maybe consider you’ve reached the peak of whats possible in your current role? Forcing the market to pay you more cus you feel like it just creates problems for everyone else as then when everyone else wants more to keep up with you and then everything else just gets equally more expensive and we are all on the same again
@P.J. Nolan: There are university graduates out there working for low wages with poor terms and conditions…. How would you advise them to them on up skilling?
@Paul Linehan: If the terms are so bad why would someone take the job in the first place? There is no a god given right to always receive pay rises and for every job to pay a high wage.
@Mary Murphy: That’s right mock the young folk who just left Uni and are setting off on their voyage through life….
@Paul Linehan: No…give them a dose of reality and hopefully they realise that you have to solve their own problems. No just stand there saying…pay me more …poor me pay me more. If you want to be successful at anything it requires hard work…and that means beating someone else who is your competitor. If making jokes about Arts graduates is hurting their feelings then I guess they won’t make it very far in life. They need to grow a pair and realise that life is not always ‘fair’. I read an article on here over the weekend where somebody under 30 was complaining about leaving for work at 8:30am and getting home at 8:30pm…and at the weekends they were too tired to even meet friends….hint hint…they are nit going far in the world.
@Mary Murphy: Watch you don’t get too much oxygen when ‘your reality bubble bursts’….
@Paul Linehan: I guess that comment means you don’t have any counter for my comment.
@Mary Murphy: Actually I was too busy working and earning my childrens college fees so they won’t have to listen to the likes of your dribble in later life!!!
@Paul Linehan: I guess that is one big way we differ. I paid my own way through college. Worked all the way paid my own fess and never asked my parents for a penny. I hope your kids are not planning on studying Arts, you would end up paying for them for the rest of your life.
@Mary Murphy: I guess there were plenty of jobs then that paid you enough to pay your way through college. Good on you, and well done for what you have achieved. But don’t knock people who have started the journey and are relying on their parents because you did something different. I help my children because I want to, and I am able to…. There are plenty of smart kids out there who don’t have that help, and I wish them the greatest luck. Because they’ll need it more than mine. Oh and arts is not their choice. Although it wouldn’t have mattered either way!!!
I’ve read some terrible stories this past weekend from people who had flights cancelled. The only way Ryanair will listen is if they are hit in the pocket through people boycotting them; something that most likely won’t happen as soon enough they’ll have one of those monster sales and people won’t be able to help themselves.
Usually with Ryanair, if you know how they operate they are relatively easy to use but the customer service in this instance is abominable.
The ‘punctuality’ excuse doesn’t seem to ring fully true.
@Ferg Breen: that’s true and I get what your saying. I’ve recently booked a flight. Ryanair was 58 euro, Aer Lingus 146 euro. I went with Aer Lingus because of what’s going on now but in normal circumstances, I’d be the very one going with Ryanair. It’s easy to say boycott Ryanair but if your on a budget. Money talks
@Ferg Breen: You’re forgetting this also pretty much only works for people living in Dublin/London etc where they actually have a choice of carrier. In many “regional” airports it’s fly Ryanair, or get in a car for 3+hours each way to a major airport.
@Ferg Breen: I am more than able to not fly Ryanair where at all possible. They are a brutal airline. How long does O’Leary think he can bank on ‘sure didn’t I bring you cheap air travel’. I’ve avoided them since 2007 where at all possible. There is a continuous problem with Ryanair flights. It’s either flights not going from the airport booked, or problems with the flights leaving hours after scheduled. Or pretending the flight is going to the city you want to go to and it lands you in somewhere like Longford pretending it’s Dublin.
@Carina Clarke: I’ve been flying with ryanair weekly for years and have never come across those complaints you have… but then you haven’t flown with them since 2007… 10 yrs ago
@Carina Clarke: I wonder do you actually believe the tripe that you just wrote
@Carina Clarke: i use ryanair all the time and genuinely cannot renember one negative incident with them.
I suspect you may be one of those travellers that are impossible to please.
@Boeing Lover: well let me see. Book flights out of Knock well in advance. flights cancelled and have to lump up to Dublin for a different flight to a different airport. Flights not taking off as problem with the plane. 10hrs delay waiting for an engineer to be dropped by another flight, not as much as water provided. Meant to fly out from Brussels. Transported on a bus to Antwerp or somewhere for a different flight. I don’t like their business practice, I have a serious dislike to Michael O’Leary and I show my disproval by not flying Ryanair unless I absolutely must.
@Carina Clarke: and no other airline has these problems? Like Aer Lingus durning the summer when pax were transported from Shannon and Cork to Dublin and London due to 3 or their aircraft going tech and they had no other way of transporting them, so flights were canx and people sent home or delayed for days on their holidays, or not getting to go on their holidays with not so much as water given either but hey, that was Aer Lingus, people won’t complain about them cause they have a Shamrock on their plane and wouldn’t inconvene their pax at all.
Supposed to fly to Amsterdam this weekend. Wife and I been planning and saving for it all summer. Now I don’t know if it will be cancelled or not. Lots if people reporting flights being cancelled last minute.
We might manage to fly out but then we’ll have the threat of cancelation over our heads for the return trip.
Thanks Ryanair!
@B9xiRspG: Seeing as they think it was a great idea of the Ryanair pilots to up sticks and leave thousands of people in limbo…. Maybe Mary Murphy and her supporters will have a whip round and fly you business class with Aer Lingus for your hard earned weekend away.
@B9xiRspG:
If they fly you out and then don’t fly you back then they have to pay for your costs while stuck in Amsterdam. Do be careful as not all products and services offered in a that wonderful city are deemed legitimate expenses
Would never slate Ryanair you get what you pay for, but this is a major blunder so I hope if people are entitled to compensation they just pay it out and not make a bad situation worse.
@Barty: it is getting worse than before Ryanair times you have to pay €100 to fly to London – now you have pay €200 if you flight got cancelled and you get emergency from Aer Lingus or so.
Michael O’Leary insists on justifying the enormous difference between his salary and the non-unionised workers, by claiming it’s his management that has led to the growth of the airline. If he wants to take the praise, he must be prepared to take the criticism. This is an appalling lack of basic management, and as he is the manager, he must accept the blame for this. He also must accept the flak for his decision to put the impact of this mistake onto the customer. It shows clearly what he thinks of his staff and his customers.
@David Knight: o leary sold a shed load of his shares not so long ago. Stinks of insider trading
So maybe Michael O Leary shouldn’t be minister for health after all?
@Michael O Connell: They both use the same work practices (pilots overworked, junior doctors overworked), so maybe he was born for the job…
@Michael O Connell: haven’t heard from him since this whole shambles happened, maybe his flight got cancelled
@Michael O Connell: a dictator is the only position he would be interested in.
He cares for no man but himself and runs his company the same.
I could not even begin to imagine the morale in the company
@Michael O Connell:
Pilots revenge probably for that crass “glorified taxi drivers” ignoramus of a comment from CEO of a few years ago.
@Michael O Connell:
Correct, he should be Taoiseach
Are we finally reaching the end of the era in which people will let you treat them like cattle as long as it’s cheap? Hopefully Lildi are next. Not wishing they go under, jist that they stop the race to the bottom for customer service and the shopper experience.
@Neal Ireland Hello.: Ryanair made it possible for odinary people to fly. Before this BA and Aer Lingus ran a cartel, in the 80s people could not afford to fly or travel, Ireland – UK in the mid 80s was in the region of 400 punts return, now that was the price 30 years ago, I understand they are ignorant however they have transformed travel for odinary people other wise we would be getting the boat to the UK with restricted travel to other areas because if the BA – Aer Lingus cartel was still in place a Dublin – London return flight would be €1000.
@Neal Ireland Hello.: I shop in lidl ever week see no difference in the staff and customer experience just lidl offer better value than tesco. Comparing lidl to the actions of Ryan Air is unfair
@ktsiwot: As someone who was around in in the 80s I can tell you that it wasnt Ryanair who first challenged the BA/Aer Lingus it was Virgin, with their 35 pound flights to Dublin from Luton on old Viscounts. Everyone forgets that and credits Ryanair.
@Squiddley Diddley: I apologise I just checked the facts and apparently Ryain were technically ahead of Virgin, although as someone living in the UK travelling home to Dublin back then I remember Virgin being big news and used them often, not Ryanair. That may be a function of Ryanair not being known in the UK till they got a bit bigger.
@ktsiwot Nonsense. I’m an ordinary person and I was flying long before Ryanair. I even had a colour television set before 1990.
@B9xiRspG: I can only assume that you are evwn more blind than me! Shopping in those places is like walking through a barn full of boxes, and God forbid if you’re too slow at packing your bags. The staff are hard-working and as helpful and friendly as their time allows them to be, yes, but there was a time when retail was heading in the direction of making shops pleasant, easy to navigate and with all the latest conveniences such as online shopping, special offers that your can find without rooting through every bucket inthe infamous “centre aisle’ and aisles that don’t look like my uncle’s cattle shed.
Sorry for the multiple posts, but , the likes of Tesco, despite it’s many faults, does things like providing a free shuttle bus for people like my mom who can’t carry her shopping, and employing my mentally disabled brother who would otherwise be stuck doing busy-work in a day centre just to get out of the house. These are things that add to a community, and will become even more important as the post offices and bank tellers disappear. I worry what’s going to happen if every retailer goes in the Ryanair direction.
Michael O’Leary insists on justifying the enormous difference between his salary and the non-unionised workers, by claiming it’s his management that has led to the growth of the Ireland. If he wants to take the praise, he must be prepared to take the criticism. This is an appalling lack of basic management, and as he is the manager, he must accept the blame for this. He also must accept the flak for his decision to put the impact of this mistake onto the customer. It shows clearly what he thinks of his staff and his customers.
Big dent in their cred ! It will do damage down the road. Shouldn’t have allowed it to get to this stage. Reluctant to lose the penny pinching ethos and it’s gonna hurt. Add the backtracking on the 2 carry on bags , even with the adjusted increases to checked in luggage, and you have a PR nightmare. All the antis will just shout “See , told ya they were useless”.. and they are very far from useless ! Bad form !
@Terry Cahill: Agree there is big damage done to their reputation. I am an admirer of how Ryan-air made it possible for people all over Europe to travel. It was worked of a policy that was reliant on market forces, so the market states pilots will have to be paid higher and fairs may need to go up a euro or two.
Seems to be people posting here that don’t really know much about aviation or Ryanair,First of all when a pilot applies to Ryanair straight out of flight school.
They pay Ryanair for the interview if successful they get offered a position on a TR course approx €29k that they pay Ryanair.
While training they do not get paid until they are released from the line check.
When they do get paid it’s via a Ltd company that each pilot has to set up themselves so technically they are self employed.
@Dave Byrne: Ryanair would not let them swop around,Ryanair as my mate once told me is a training school for pilots lads that got their command being told they would never get a base in Ireland or near to it some headed off to the sand pit with Emirates etc.
I’m rooting for a Norwegian company over an Irish one. Good work, O’Leary.
Perhaps if they treated their staff well…… and not only their CEO!
Ryanair rules the skies in Europe and the regulators on the ground. It makes the regulators quake in dread.
Ryanair can do as it pleases. It has absolute market dominance.
It would appear that 140 pilots got job offers that were just too good to refuse.
That doesn’t mean that Ryanair are bad employers.
How many more pilots are going to leave Ryanair over the coming weeks and months?
The ultra-low-cost model—pioneered in Europe by Irish carrier Ryanair Ltd.—requires airlines to strip all expendable costs. It means packing more seats onto planes, flying more hours a day, paying staff less and keeping seat prices separate from all related goods and services. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that if low cost is king that customer service, employee relations and allegedly even safety are all down the priority list.
this has has a knock on effect, as they now need a recruiter to help them get more pilots.
https://ie.indeed.com/m/viewjob?jk=689044e806f67456&from=ja&alid=5979a817e4b0ff92892f452b&rgtk=1brlic7iq15a4frk&dupclk=0
If they had treated them well enough in the first place, they wouldn’t have left!
have your say