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Updated 5.15pm
SPANISH RIOT POLICE are firing rubber bullets and forcing their way into activist-held polling stations in Catalonia as thousands flood the streets to vote in an independence referendum banned by Madrid.
At least 91 people were confirmed injured in clashes out of more than 330 who went to hospital, emergency services said, as police cracked down on what the Spanish central government branded a “farce”.
But the Catalan government has claimed that the number of injured could be as high as 465, as videos and images show the extremity of the clashes between voters and law enforcement.
Scuffles broke out as police moved in to seal off polling stations and seize ballot boxes to prevent people from voting across the wealthy northeastern region where more than 5.3 million people have been called upon to have their say on independence from Spain.
In central Barcelona, riot police forced their way inside a school to seize ballot boxes, charging at demonstrators who were sitting on the ground blocking their way, witnesses said.
Witnesses said police in Barcelona also fired rubber bullets, with one demonstrator showing AFP a leg injury he suffered.
Spain’s foreign minister Alfonso Dastis told Sky News that the events of today were “not worthy of being called a referendum”.
He said that ballot papers weren’t certified and that the rules of the referendum was changed 15 minutes before the vote began today.
When asked why the Spanish government wouldn’t allow Catalans to vote for or against independence, he said that if a vote were to happen, it would have to include the whole of Spain – “a part cannot decide for the whole”, he said.
When asked how he justified the violence against those who wanted to vote, Dastis said that he had “not seen the violence you seem to have seen”.
He said that some of the images of protests he saw online that dated back to 2012.
Sky News then played footage captured earlier in the day of police charging at protesters, pushing them away from ballots and some protesters lying on the ground.
Their reporter told Dastis that there may be false images online, but that there were unprecedented violent scenes between citizens and riot police today, which was met by applause from the crowd that had gathered around him.
Irish reaction
A number of Sinn Féin members have travelled to Catalonia for the vote and called on the Irish government to condemn the violence by the Spanish state.
“There is a particular onus on Spain’s European neighbours,” he said “including the Irish government, and the European Union to take a stand against the use of violence against those seeking to use their vote and in support of the democratic rights of the Catalan people.”
The Green Party has also condemned the violence, and called on the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Charlie Flanagan, to raise his concerns with the Spanish government.
The Green’s Dublin city councillor Ciarán Cuffe said that “the scenes we are witnessing today are unacceptable in a democracy”.
Imagine if Greater Dublin held a referendum to secede from the Irish State and An Garda Siochána responded with the scenes of violence that we saw on our screens today?
‘We will vote!’
Riot police also stormed a polling station near Girona, smashing the glass doors of the sports centre where Puigdemont was due to vote, then cutting a chain to force their way in.
Inside, they bagged up ballot boxes in black bin liners, wrapping them in police tape before hauling them away.
But the regional government said Puigdemont had managed to vote anyway, tweeting pictures of him casting his ballot in Cornella del Terri, some 10 kilometres (six miles) away.
The drama unfolded after a night of tension in which thousands of people, both nervous and excited, had gathered outside polling stations before dawn.
In Barcelona, rows of police vans were in the streets, their blue lights flashing as officers in riot gear, some carrying heavy bolt cutters, walked through the street as crowds thronged the streets outside a polling station.
FC Barcelona condemned the events that prevented “citizens exercising their democratic rights to free expression”.
It was decided that their game against Las Palmas today would be played behind closed doors due to the violent clashes.
“Votarem, votarem!” – Catalan for “We will vote!” – they chanted, many with their hands in the air.
Peaceful resistance
As the rain poured down in Barcelona, students and activists who had spent the night in schools gathered outside with locals to “defend” these polling stations from police as cars drove by honking their horns in support.
Catalan television broadcast footage of crowds in towns and villages all over the region ahead of the referendum, which has triggered one of the worst political crises in Spain in decades.
Although the region is divided over independence, most people want to vote on the matter in legal, binding plebiscite.
“The government today is in a position to affirm that we can celebrate the referendum of self-determination – not as we wanted, but (it will have democratic) guarantees,” government spokesman Jordi Turull told reporters.
The night before the vote, those occuping the polling stations were told to hand out flowers as a sign of peaceful resistance if the police arrived.
“If someone wants to trouble you, you must remain very calm, smile, practice passive resistance – we have a lot of carnations to hand out – and try to delay them as much as possible from taking away our ballot box,” said Joan Font, a 37-year-old teacher.
Ballot boxes hidden
But the interior ministry said it had started seizing ballot boxes, adding police were “continuing to deploy in Catalonia” to stop the referendum.
Spain’s central government is staunchly against the vote, which has been ruled unconstitutional by the courts, and has vowed to stop it from taking place.
On orders of judges and prosecutors, police have seized ballot papers, detained key organisers and shut down websites promoting the vote.
The ballot boxes have been at the centre of attention during the crisis, with many wondering where they were hidden and how they would be delivered to polling stations.
Occupied schools
Whatever happens, today’s referendum result will not be recognised by Madrid, and almost certainly not by the international community.
Yesterday Spain’s interior ministry said police had closed most of the 2,315 polling stations across Catalonia.
But dozens of others were occupied by teachers, parents, students and activists determined to let people in anyway, with schools coming up with innovative ways to stay open over the weekend through by organising activities ranging from kids’ pyjama parties to volleyball games.
A regional government source said voting may also happen in other places like health centres and even retirement homes, with people able to cast their ballots at any voting station by using their passports or other identification documents.
Turull said there would be ballots papers at all polling stations but voters could also use home-printed versions downloaded from the internet.
Unity protests
Earlier this week, the Mossos d’Esquadra Catalan police warned about the risk of “disruption of public order” if people were prevented from casting ballots.
Madrid has sent thousands of extra police officers from other forces to Catalonia to stop the referendum from happening.
Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy’s conservative government has come under fire for limiting its response to the crisis to repeating that the referendum is unconstitutional.
“The state needs to explain the benefits of remaining united, instead of repeating all the time that the referendum is illegal,” said Rafael Castillo, a 59-year-old engineer at a rally in Madrid, wearing a scarf with the Spanish flag around his neck.
© – AFP, 2017 with reporting from Gráinne Ní Aodha
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Hard to believe this response from the Spanish is actually taking place in the 21st century.
Sounds like a chapter from Ireland’s history circa 1919!
Best of luck to the Catalonians
@Jon Mackey:
Or Ireland from 1969 on.
@Jon Mackey: Ireland in 2016. Think Garda treatment of water protesters
@Jon Mackey: Or, like Ireland, why not just let them vote over and over again until the correct result is reached?
@Irish Spider-Man: Ah change the record. It’s not as if they were interred in Guantanemo Bay and denied a right to trial.
@Irish Spider-Man: No thanks, they deserve it. Pay your own bills.
@Ne: Got a fair and open trial, including expensive free legal aid courtesy of the taxpayer, got cleared, got tonnes of free publicity and public support, about to get their water bills refunded while still getting to keep the grant, and they’re STILL whining.
@Irish Spider-Man: Did the Gardai charge at the water protestors? Did the Gardai use rubber bullets?
@Jane: they baton charged the student fee protest a few years ago.
@Mr Phil Officer: are you talking about the one where the Eirigi group entered the finance building and had to be removed? Didnt the Students Union completely distance themselves from the breakoff group and actually went as far as to say that all they did was distract from the Students cause?
@Jon Mackey: The irony of that statement and the irony of Shinners… – Catalonia is the north and spain is ireland – Catalonia are looking to leave the nation of Spain… i.e. partitioning the country.
@Old Gabby Johnson: but the Catalonians want the partition themselves. Nobody is forcing it on them.
@Jon Mackey: Directions are straight from EU headquarters.
@Jane: A majority in the North want the partition as well.
@Jon Mackey: the Irish never fought for independence. Their goal was home rule which is not independence. It was the republican minority that force their wish for independence on the majority by arm force .
@WinSomeLoseSome: and if that’s the case then that’s fair enough.
@Jon Mackey: It is the rich part of spain trying to break away from the rest.
You could compare it to leinster voting for independence. It would destroy the rest of the country.
This vote would be terrible for most of spain and it did not go through official channels.
But I admit the spanish government is really making a mess of it all…..
@Jane: Nothing happened to the farmers who did the same.
@TravellingTheWorld: _____ “Directions are straight from EU headquarters”__ Yes, sure they are. It’s more likely that the EU is given the Spanish government a roasting behind closed doors for being dicks.
@Jane: not even sure a referendum would pass – what they want is the right to vote on the issue
@Ted Murray: my guess is that because the vote is against the Spanish constitution the EU will do very little. Can’t be seen to interfere in constitutional issues
@Jon Mackey: it’s an illegal vote. The Spanish constitution states that all Spaniards would need to vote. That is the rule of law in Spain. This minority group in Catalonia and Spain have decided to hold a fake referendum. It’s completely undemocratic as the minority is forcing itself over the majority in Catalonia. People need to have a serious reality check. Police have stepped in when illegal activity has taken place.
@Jon Mackey: sounds like a chapter from 2016 more like when the guards were ordered to slap people about the place so more money could be wasted on water meters.
@Jon Mackey: He hadn’t gone away you know.? Francisco Franco.
@Jon Mackey:
Yep.
Spanish government diging their own grave with this use of force..
Before ..it was 50% – 50%
now they have angry peoples and resolt is 90% – 10 % for exit ..
SOOOOO STUPID from MADRID
@Bobo Zg: So true. Do people never learn from history?
I was shocked when told by friends from Catalonia that they paid more taxes than in Madrid. Shame on Spanish government for that and not giving them their right to vote.. It’s everybodies right.
@Ray Reilly: look what the Spanish government are doing to the voters. Police are out in force in riot gear. Have seen multiple pictures of both teenagers and elderly being battered and bleeding heavily. Maybe it’s a direct request from the EU. After all they cant be seen to let this kind of thing go unchecked.
@Paul O Mahony: What isn’t being widely reported is that Spain has discreetly hired ferries/cruise liners that are moored at the port of Barcelona as temporary housing for thousands (16,000) of police specially deployed to keep order in Catalonia. I was in Barcelona yesterday and from what I saw the protests were peaceful but a very heavy police presence where they were conducting random spot checks of people’s bags and person, quite intimidating. One of my son’s Catalan friends was even told to print his own ballot paper!.
@Ray Reilly: The taxes set by the central government in Spain are applied at the same rates for everyone no matter where located. The local governments have powers to set the rate for many other taxes and these are the taxes in Catalonia that are higher than other areas of Spain. So your Catalan friends have voted for their local government who have set the higher taxes, they don’t come imposed from Madrid. If the people in Catalonia don’t know this then they must be living under a rock or they want to perpetuate a lie in order to give legitimacy their own illegal actions. I don’t know which of two is worse.
@Ray Reilly: Your comment is false. Get your facts straight before commenting please. Spanish taxes from Madrid are equal throughout Spain. Local taxes decided by the Catalan government are higher than other regions. Facts not fiction in any future comments please… Mr. Trump.
@Ray Reilly: see ciaralem’s comment re taxation, it’s set locally. Other than that I agree with you
@Paul O Mahony: the EU would have no hand in this. This is a sovereign matter. All the EU can do is not recognise Catalonia as a member of the EU. I don’t know why the Spanish didn’t let them vote. The majority of Catalonia wants to say part of Spain 49% to 41%. This is just exacerbating the problem.
@Deborah Behan: “To go against the constitution would be going against the EU framework,” European Parliament president Antonio Tajani said in a letter to a Spanish MEP
@JimmyMc: doesn’t that just meant that the Spanish constitution is protected under the EU framework?
@Deborah Behan: and the majority of the British wanted to stay in the EU or so they said….
@Seth Cheffetz: I’d say that effect would work the opposite way here. People are more likely to publicly deny not wanting an independent state.
@molly coddled: ir was on the uk and irish news yesterday !
@Dave O Keeffe: it may. do But it illustrates the statement that the EU would have no hand in this is false. Besides, you would have to be more than stupid or pretending to be, to believe that the have had no hand in or input into this whatsoever
@JimmyMc: the people in charge at the EU are smarter than that. This would have gone exactly the same way if they applied pressure to Madrid or not.
@Dave O Keeffe: not the issue thicko. The fact is they did have an input, the letter to the Spanish MEP proves it.
@JimmyMc: https://www.theparliamentmagazine.eu/articles/news/meps-urge-all-sides-find-solution-catalonia-crisis whatever your opinion there’s no need for insults un the absence of fact.
@Dave O Keeffe: there is no absence of fact. The letter from the President of the European Parliment to the Spanish MEP proves there was EU input. Do you seriously expect people to believe that the Spanish government didn’t get advice from the EU? Do you really believe that people are that stupid? Perhaps you do, that would explain why you’re here for 16 hours every day pontificating to everyone about everything. Get a life.
@JimmyMc: or you could just read the link I posted. Feel free to post one for yourself. Guess what? Mobile technology allows people to access the Internet almost anywhere. Be a good little boy and try discussing the issue rather than insulting people.
@Deborah Behan: ah Debs, innocent so innocent are you…
@Dave O Keeffe: the issue is that it has been shown that the EU have had an input into this. Due to what I can only assume is some kind of mental development disorder or just plain stupidity, you refuse to accept it. I cannot really waste any more time on you
@ed w: I’m on holidays in Cambrils, my son is in Barcelona for a few weeks with work and his Catalan friends told me yesterday in Barcelona that at least four ships are docked in the port full of Spanish riot police, and one of those is a Disney Tweety pie themed one.
@Ray Reilly: Not true and I am guessing you meant to say “everybody’s right”.
@Paul O Mahony: So you think the Spanish Gov is taking orders from Brussels, go away ya spanner.
@JimmyMc: you have failed to show that in any way, shape or form. Whereas I’ve shown MEPs denouncing the actions of the Spanish government. All you’ve done us belittle and insult the only one of the two of us that brought source material. Good luck with your petty existence infant.
A democratic country who is denying a significant portion of their citizens the right to express their opinion is back on the slippery slope to dictatorship.
@mary conneely: yes it’s shameful
@billy Dorney: fear is for me that it will only bring back the likes of ETA to violence. Pictures and video on Twitter of riot police beating kids and pensioners isnt going to help . Although I’m sure the MAN wont cover it.
@mary conneely:
And that wasn’t so long ago.
@Paul O Mahony:
ETA are Basque, Catalonia is a completely different place. Your general point is well made though.
@mary conneely: If Dublin wanted to secede from Ireland (sounds nice) or Cork or the Kingdom of Kerry would we let them and breakup the nation? No we wouldn’t. The hypocrisy of the Irish.
@mary conneely: nearly right mary – the dictatorship is actually the EU.
@Old Gabby Johnson: that’s a lame comparison, it’s not the same thing at all.
@mary conneely: yes, this is where the EU is right now. Once you step out of line you get a fist in your face
@TravellingTheWorld: correct, if this was happening anywhere else (as happened in Ukraine/Libya…etc.) the EU would be calling it an attack on democracy and the right to self determination…everybody thought Imperialism died in 1945, well with the US and EU it has returned in the 21st century, I wonder will the EU ever get back to what it was first established for. Somehow I doubt it…feeding troughs are hard habit to break…
@Old Gabby Johnson: That’s not the same argument really. Neither Dublin, Cork nor Kerry were former independent states annexed by Ireland.
@Rob Nolan: I don’t get you. Catalan has been a part of Spain since day one in the 12th century.
@Rob Nolan: ireland was once a number of fifedoms like spain was.. it was the english who unified the country snd msde it a nation state.
The reaction from the Spanish government is unacceptable, but expected. No government wants to see their country split up.
I’m more appalled by the lack of condemnation from the international community. Leaders keep simply saying the Catalans must respect the Spanish constitution. But the clause saying Spain is indivisible is out and out imperialism. It’s a clause that should be struck down by the courts as illogical, contradictory and undemocratic, rather than actually held up by the courts.
If the British had such a law that said the Empire was indivisible and other countries kept supporting them on that, quarter of the world map would still be pink today.
Shame on Spain.
@Donncha Ó Coileáin: the silence from Brussels is strange considering Catalonians are EU citizens, it seems that Barcelona is going to be made an example of to ward off any notions of independence in other regions across Europe.
If the EU doesn’t stand up to Spanish aggression we should be reconsidering our membership of this undemocratic beast.
@Mr Phil Officer: People complain about the EU interfering too much in the internal affairs of member states, now you’re complaining about the EU not interfering enough, how exactly can the EU win?
@fiachra29: they can win by being more open and transparent, Ming the merciless is over there and he’s shouting from the rooftops about how undemocratic it has become, we should listen before it’s too late.
@Mr Phil Officer:
Precisely. The one thing the Brussels cabal fear above all else is contagion precipitating the complete break-up of ‘the project’, hence why they’re terrified of referenda, why they’re determined to punish Britain for leaving, and why they’ll never support the Catalans’ right to self-determination.
@Avina Laaf: I don’t like where the EU is headed, the Brits aren’t leaving for nothing, our government are never critical of Europe despite its many flaws.
@Mr Phil Officer:
Only time will tell whether they’ve shot themselves in the foot or given themselves a good head start over other European countries, but either way fair play to Britain for holding a referendum and putting it up to an EU that is badly in need of reform.
@Mr Phil Officer: The EU needs to improve… but it is a great project.
@James Maloney: the EEC was a great project, the undemocratic EU is a different beast all together.
@Mr Phil Officer: Here come Angela’s boot boys not a word from the EPP reps here Leo and the choirboys got their orders in Talin
@john g mcgrath: the fanboys don’t work on a Sunday, they’ll be back tomorrow.
The EU has been very quiet on this but are always willing to have their voice heard about external determinations like Ukraine or the Kurds. I suppose they just can’t face up to the cracks in their project that are currently propagating from Spain.
@Mr Phil Officer: Rajoy has just thanked the EU for its support in the matter
@Donncha Ó Coileáin: The silence from the EU is not surprising this terrifies them, they hide behind having to allow Spain run its own affairs, but the Spanish Govt is a stain upon the rest of us. The beating heart of Spain is a faschist one.
Cork will be next
@Des Riordan: Oh please please give them a referendum
Sure why would they boy when Cork city is only the true capital of Ireland!
FRANCO treated the Catalans terribly ,tried to destroy their culture and language ,madrid has taken a high handed approach and it is backfiring ,its hard to believe just a few weeks after the terrorist attacks in Barcelona ,we now have the state using thuggery to repress the democratic rights of their citizens .
@Anthony Gallagher: agreed, he made it illegal to use the catalan language..
very troubled and fascinating history.
given another 25 years i think the European map will look very different indeed..
Why the need to ban people from having a vote? Why don’t they just ignore the results of the vote, like normal countries.
@Ne:
Exactly. The vote would have been in violation of the Spanish constitution anyway so there was no legal basis to honour the vote. As the polls suggested a ‘No’ anyway there wasn’t a high risk of embarrassment for the government.
All Madrid has done is drive even more Catalonian people towards independence.
@Ne: it’s a big own goal for Madrid. There was a small majority that wanted to stay with Spain but I wonder tonight what that would be now. The shocking images of the riot police attacking unarmed citizens is disgraceful. Other EU leaders have got to vocally condemn this.
@Deborah Behan: like hanging the 1916 lads
And if you tolerate this then your children will be next.
@Jon Mackey: I guess you’re not a fan of The Manic Street Preachers ?
@wiklagirl: oh I am, I was just overdue a smart arse comment aimed at a hippy. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time :D
@Jon Mackey: You’re still overdue.
@Jon Mackey: monuments from pen to paper turn me into a gutless wonder !
@wiklagirl: !03:_+9
@Cillian McCormick: shut up Cillian… how’s that?
Down with all Empires, victory to the people of Catalonia.
@Con Murphy: what in your mind would be a victory for the Catalán people? Polls show that the no side would win by a slim margin but then again, they are polls. Victory is everyone casting their vote and the result being respected either way.
@Con Murphy: victory to the people of ‘The Republic of Cork.’!!!
So who is in charge, a few well fed policians and judges or a few million Catalans?
This is how stuff gets done.
More power to the people.
Bravo, independence to come peacefully
A friend of mine is living in alcarres and it’s starting to get bad there. Residents have blocked off streets with tractors to stop the police she sent me videos of people been beat up by rough police.
There’s this and also the Kurdish vote being ignored and denounced.
The ideas of self-determination and democracy don’t seem to matter when there are ‘greater interests’
Not sure what my point is except let people vote. The police coming in over peaceful protests to stop a vote is disgraceful.
The Catalan government will get a yes vote, not as a response to the crack-down, but because they’ve made it impossible for anyone but the most passionate to vote.
The determined no voters will avoid the ballot box because they support the Spanish government in removing any legitimacy to the vote.
The wayward no and yes voters will be cowed by the Spanish government’s actions and will likewise avoid the polls.
This leaves the determined yes voter, who will do anything to make their voice heard.
It will be a landslide.
@Steven C. Schulz:
Agreed but unfortunately a landslide on a low turnout won’t carry much weight. This is what the Spanish government are banking on.
@Avina Laaf: the Spanish government are forcing a yes vote. The policing is ridiculous. They would have been better off saying the vote wasn’t constitutional but not stopping it, that way they can either ignore or run with the result depending on the outcome. This type of action only creates more yes voters
Rubber Bullets and beatings….EU police Force in action……this is all waiting for us sheep !!
@Johnnathan Biskalero: EU police force??? Guarda Civil or its Catalan equivalent.
Balance & accuracy please.
@Johnnathan Biskalero: always the same hysterical nonsense
@James Maloney: the guardia civil . Catalan Police have been merely watching and keeping public order . They refused to prevent the voting as you may see in the video in the link below . Catalan police were fantastic .
https://www.dn.pt/mundo/interior/policias-emocionados-sao-confortados-pela-populacao-8811845.html
I won’t say anything about the actual referendum , but the police action and rajoy’s government ordering this barbarity is a ” tique” of a not so distant past . There’s other ways to deal with this . Dialogue was one of them . This is barbaric .
There’s no turning back now,this will be a test of the E U,I think this Catalan movement for Independence can not be stopped after Madrid’s repressive reaction,
For a taoiseach thats been mouthing off and spinning on everything these days all we get on this is silence….
A well that’s democracy for ya! Despite them being incompetent messes, I’m sure FF and FG would do the same if their political dominance was threatened by what they call “outsiders”.
If they lose out anyway, they have the system set up to benefit themselves with their gold plated pensions and huge compensation packages, even after they almost bankrupt the country.
@Adrian: If people in Cork wanted to do so, most of the rest of the country would support it. They don’t want us and we don’t want them. Perhaps then the chip might be finally removed from the shoulders..Even the gardai wouldn’t be down there throwing rubber chickens nevermind buttlets.
@iMoan Brutal: On a more serious note – Ireland is actually very lopsided towards Dublin and Leinster, and before you say – it’s because they have the larger population – the people outside of Leinster deserve their own local government.
@iMoan Brutal: cork is one thing.what about dublin 2.the money wants independence.
@eastsmer: Regional government supported by local councils and scrap county councils.
This is a denial of democracy if ever I seen one!
@oliverjumelle: yes, the vast majority of those motivated to vote are the separatists. The polls will be meaningless.
@oliverjumelle: No to Lisbon, Brexit. Democracy in action….
@JimmyMc: how is Brexit a denial of democracy? The people voted, the UK are leaving
Who should have the power, the people or the State? we keep voting for more government we demand more intervention, we give the monopoly on the use of force to the state.We want more EU, bigger government a federal union. Are we surprised when the state tells us what to do and how to live your life? Is there a better solution ? The state is a monster but people only see the monster when they are not in control of it, when they are they feed it and make it bigger but inevitably they will lose control of it and be on the receiving end. Which is why a strong constitution to control those who control the monster is important.
@John Mc Grath: what is the “WE” business ? There is alot of people who want out of the EU…..it is a very dangerous entity now….get he hell out !! Fuerta !!
@Johnnathan Biskalero: I understand not everyone wants more EU, I am deeply sceptical of the growing bureaucracy myself and the drive to a federal union. I use “we” because we are all happy you use the power of the state to our own ends.
@John Mc Grath: you shouldn’t be sceptical of a federal union. That’s the plan since the creation of the European coal and steal community. It’s no conspiracy. It’s well documented.
@Johnnathan Biskalero: If you want to leave the EU then go. Nobody is stopping you. Currently their is 28 countries in the EU… there are 100′s in the world, pick one & go.
My heart is aching…my Catalan and charnego family divided…my very old Spanish parents living in Barcelona quietly awaiting the end of the day at home…My 100% independentist cousins cautiously voting yes…
The Spanish Catalans are not voting rather than voting No in an illegal referendum. The Yes will win because only one type of Catalans is voting…
But there was already a referendum on independence years ago and the independentists lost. The central government initiated sanctions against the region….
Both sides are at blame but I will never forgive the current Catalan government for forcing its way using illegal tactics, manipulating the foreign press, dividing the Catalan population and intimidating part of its citizens…
@Angeles: how can what would have been a symbolic referendum be illegal, it would have had no legal standing to be illegal, also unless you have only been paying attention in the last week the autonomous Catalan government was elected on the promise they would hold an independence referendum so this day was coming and should not be a shock.
@Angeles: regardless of the legalities of the referendum the government have handled this so badly. The whole world is looking at the police roughing up people just waiting to vote.
@Angeles: You do understand that the Journal is primarily an Irish website, and that our country’s independence was brought about by people who were accused of all the things you accuse the current Catalan government of?
Homage to Catalonia
Journalists need to be careful in the terminology they use to describe what happened. When sentences like ‘scuffles broke out’ are used to describe what happened it often distorts how events are interpreted. Armed police without any provocation can be clearly seen attacking peaceful civilians using battons and plastic bullets.
Mad, potentially counterproductive overreaction.
Stop labelling these as “clashes” with the police. They are not clashes. They are attacks by the police of people trying to exercise their democratic voice.
Now we know how the citizens of Northern Ireland must feel when they were denied a vote even with a legitimate major change in their circumstances from the Good Friday agreement.
That first line ‘activist-held polling stations’ is unbelievable, they’re the people of Catalunya simply trying to vote, has the Journal gone even more right-wing now?
This is what happens when the many no longer fear the few.
Its almost impossible to get independence by peaceful resistance
and the actions by the Spanish riot police are not going to remediate
the situation but only make it worse its only counterproductive
I’d say there are a lot more than 38 injured. Police being very heavy handed.
https://youtu.be/APsHNIrS7-s
Shame of Spain. We can’t live together anymore after repression today in Catalonia. Bye Spain
I lived with a dude from Barcelona.. remember watching Spain and Italy in penalty shootout he was shouting for Italy as if he was an Italian for hard
@Michael: die*
Catalonian ‘freedom’ in context:
Spain has the third highest rate of temporary employment of all OECD countries, at 26.1 percent of the workforce, behind only Poland and Colombia. For those trapped in the world of temporary work, a contract provides no security, as contract terms have been narrowed down to a few months, a few weeks, or sometimes a few days. One consequence of the increased “precariousness” of work is the 8.4 percent rise in the number of workers who have died in occupational accidents in the first half of this year to 300 compared to 2016.
The effect on children has been devastating. UNICEF recently reported that Spain has the third highest level of child poverty in all of Europe, behind only Romania and Greece. About 40 percent of children were below the official poverty line in 2014, nine points higher than in 2008.
The source of this calamitous decline in the social position of the working class is the breakdown of the post-World War II economic and political order, which has resulted in the growth of nationalism and separatism. In Spain, the two-party system has collapsed, and demands for regional independence increased above all in Catalonia.
The critical issue in these developments is the independent mobilisation of the working class in opposition to the ruling elites in Spain, Catalonia and Europe.
The growth of separatism, expressed in the October 1 Catalan independence referendum, is a retrograde development that cuts across the critical struggle to unite the working class in opposition to the social counterrevolution being carried out by both Spain and Catalonia under the auspices of the EU.
The striving for Catalan independence is bound up with an attempt by bourgeois and upper middle class layers to exploit their already-privileged economic position in Spain’s most prosperous regions. One of their main complaints is that they do not want taxes collected there to subsidise Spain’s poorer regions.
The role of pseudo-left organisations such as CUP is to divert social discontent, especially among the youth, into nationalist channels, in the process splitting the Spanish working class against itself and in support of rival factions of the bourgeoisie.
(From http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/09/26/spai-s26.html
@PV Nevin:
So because they’re wealthier than the average Spaniard they don’t deserve the right to self-determination?
This is the start of a movement across the EU to set-up miniature Republics of the most wealthy regions and let the poor fend for themselves. Why should a rich town subsidise a poor one after all?
@Avina Laaf:
Wealth, ownership of the means to live, of the means of production, is thee issue. To be exploited by a bourgeois class based around Barcelona rather than Madrid is not freedom. The role of the phoney left parties that promote nationalism, whether in Scotland or Catalonia, or Ireland, is a most important question.
The political problem of our times is that of class – of the ruling class (and the sycophants of the ruling class) vs the great mass of humanity. It is a capitalist system we all live under. In Catalonia and Ireland. The further fracturing of the working class along national, racial or sectarian lines is of no benefit to the working people. It only plays into the hands of those who exploit.
The presence of Sinn Fein in Catalonia, off course completely ducking the question of class, is to be expected. They see their natural allies in the Catalan nationalist. Sinn Fein and the Catalan nationalists both impose austerity on behalf of big finance.
In the end the Madrid and Barcelona billionaires are on the same side. They are fighting with each other over who gets a bigger slice of the pie; but if working people move to take the pie away from them both then you will see the true colours of the Spanish and Catalan ruling class. That being fascist black.
@PV Nevin: Well said PV.
I see Dublin’s SF Mayor is already weighing in with his support for the Catalan attempt to rid itself of the burden of sharing its disproportionate wealth and taxes with the rest of Spain. https://twitter.com/An_Phoblacht/status/914488442159058949
Viva La Capitalisme! I thought SF were meant to be lefties?
Catalonia…Basque Country….Tyranny Spain and inbreds from Madrid.
@Kev Creed: Are you aware that a huge proportion of both Basques & Catalans have some Spanish ancestry or a parent/grandparent from other parts of Spain?
Imagine if students held a protest against the reintroduction of fees in Dublin and the Garda riot squad baton charged them and beat them on the ground! What would people say?
Nothing, not a damn thing!
@TonyF: You would have the Spindo saying it all for the establishment, as usual.
Franco is Back
I don’t know the ins and outs of the Catalan independence vote in detail, but as a separate but linked issue, the actions of the Spanish authorities will underline the determination of the people of Gibraltar not to be subsumed into mainland Spain. In general, the use of excessive force to impose a political system is almost always counter-productive, regardless of the validity of the argument.
Wrote this a few weeks ago. Today is already a boost for Catalonian Independence, regardless of the actual referendum result..
Franco will be looking up from his firey pit with an evil smile on his fascist mush.
The Catalan’s are sick of subsidising the rest of Spain’s poor.
Yet the lefties are out to support the elite rich Catalan region from abandoning it’s fellow citizens in the rest of Spain.
Are lefties stupid or wilfully ignorant?
Would they be cheering on Dublin or London wanting to keep all their wealth for themselves and leave the rest of the country to rot as a separate state?
@alphanautica: just out of curiosity, what do you think the effects of Macron’s proposed EU reform will have on Ireland.
@Mr Phil Officer: alpha doesn’t think. He does what he’s told.
@Cathal Mac Einri: what is your argument that the wealthy and the powerful should cordon off their regions and leave the rest of the country to struggle?
@alphanautica: you left out the bit about Catalunya being built on finds from the rest of Spain. But there is no legitimate reason for what’s happening today.
Love to know where you got “38″ from, I would say it’s a lot more…
@xor: Catalan Gov now put injured number at 337
Headline is totally inaccurate. It should be “465 civilians beaten and injured by Spanish Police”. What I have seen from the much video evidence are peaceful civilians trying to vote and getting beaten with batons and hit with rubber bullets. Shameful actions!
It’s very simple the Spanish are hot headed and love money and power.
@Eoin: and what about the Cataláns? Surely you have another broad, sweeping generalisation for them
Welcome to EU democracy.spanish government are carrying out the orders from Brussels,crush this democracy nonsense.
The bourgeoisie of all nationalities, languages and creeds lie. The reason being because their own position is based completely on exploitation, or stealing if you prefer that term.
One cannot be naïve when the siren calls of national ‘freedom’ are declared by the new friends of the common people. Apparently Catalonia’s 28 billionaires (more than Madrid’s 25, of Spain’s 100 richest billionaires), these billionaires will man the barricades alongside workers who are deceived by the nationalist declarations.
“Imagine if Greater Dublin held a referendum to secede from the Irish State and An Garda Siochána responded with the scenes of violence that we saw on our screens today”
Ha! I was at some of the Right to Water protests. I know what they did and are capable of doing!
Go against your E.U. masters and this is their answer to people voting for independence .
¡Visca Cataluñya!
Any state that uses violence on peaceful protesters has lost. Despicable behavior by the Spanish police today. This will only make the Catalans more determined to achieve their goal. Shame on you Rajoy and your fascist riot police thugs.
It’s as if Franco had risen from the dead!
Democracy ??? depending upon the constituency, democratic and undemocratic can be the same thing…..
For Example if 51% of the people of Catalonia want independence but only 20% of the people of Spain… and within Catalonia the province of Tarragona and Girona vote 60% for independence and only 40% of the province of Barcelona and LLidea vote for independence – what is a proper democratic outcome????
none of this excuses the actions of the police or indeed the government in attempting to stop collecting the wishes of a group of people and to that extent it is undemocratic.
Illegal attempt at secession is clamped down on heavily by the powers that be. Here’s the background to the vote for anyone interested. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/a-coup-against-spanish-democracy-is-a-coup-against-europe/article36449710/
spanish police beat firefighters protecting the voters then beat older and younger voters bloody it was shameful, let them vote whats spain afraid of that they injure over 700 people must be a majority want independence
The Irish should fight have a vote for independence from the our masters the european empire,
In Madrid at the moment came across a protest a lot of police about
PSOE back Madrid government attacks. Podemos dodges the issue.
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/10/02/cata-o02.html
have your say