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ON THIS DAY last year – 26 February 2011 – the general election count was underway and these seven young candidates were anxiously awaiting news of the outcome of their #GE11 campaigns. Just one of the seven was elected to the Dáil.
One year on, here are their recollections of canvassing, their thoughts on what the government should achieve in this term, and what they would advise other young people who consider taking the plunge and running for the Dáil:
Dylan Haskins, Independent candidate in Dublin South, 22 at the time of #GE11
On the campaign:
I think I decided to do it for sure on New Year’s Eve, and from that point on it was trying to get a campaign together and a strategy and to write policies. I had two main things: running as an Independent, and also not running on local issues. I didn’t have the political structure of advisors etc to develop policy, and being on both sides of that fence for a short-term was a real challenge. But sometimes in life you push yourself, really, and you realise after that you hadn’t quite thought you could do that. I don’t think I covered enough ground [canvassing] but it was the most satisfying part of the process. Meeting people and hearing about what mattered to them and their different experiences – the amount of lives going on behind all those doors that you see every day but don’t know about in your bubble.
Advice for a young candidate:
I think running has to do with a focus. I was never under any illusion as to what an Independent could achieve within the structure of the Dáil as an outsider. That’s part of how our government is set up – the government do what they do and the opposition just throw stuff at them, there’s not much engagement or collaboration between the two of them. [Running for office] is an avenue that people should consider, but there are many other ways for people to get engaged and to get things done.
What he’s doing now:
I’m finishing my dissertation for my final year of college and I’m studying History of Art and Architecture at Trinity. It was quite difficult after the election to catch up [with college work] and I somehow passed. It’s enjoyable, it’s something totally different to the election and politics, though it’s still about the world.
On running again:
I don’t think so, but if you’d asked me two years ago if I’d be running in that election, I’d have said no way. I really enjoyed canvassing – communicating and talking to people is what I like and it’s what I want to focus on when I finish college, broadcasting and filmmaking. That December 2010 Budget really targeted the young and the vulnerable, and it pushed me into believing that a big change has to happen in the next few years. I didn’t think it would happen in one election, but the process to create an alternative has to begin – and that issue still stands. Next time is going to be really interesting. I think Labour was stupid to go in with Fine Gael and the coalition will inevitably become unpopular by the time the next election comes, though I don’t think Fianna Fáil is going to rebound by then. So the only real option left is Sinn Féin. There’s a whole generation in there who wasn’t in for the dodgy stuff so they [SF] do become valid and legitimate in some way – it’s a different generation from the violence. For me, it’s worrying that SF is the only viable alternative.
One thing he’d like to see this government do while in office:
I think there was a huge amount of talk [during the election campaigns] about political reform and transparency – buzzwords during the election. And I found it quite difficult to make the point to people that I meant it. To demonstrate it in the campaign, we published accounts to show that I would have done that in office. I’d like to see the coalition acting on that and the transparency of government. People feel very alienated from government if it’s not really transparent for them. If [politics] is not engaging a large number of people, there’s something wrong with it.
Darcy Lonergan, Green Party candidate in Cavan-Monaghan, 21 at the time of #GE11
On the campaign:
It was a very difficult election for the Greens. I didn’t get it as bad as everyone else, but it was a pretty negative campaign experience. But since we did it and people have realised the good things we did in government, I don’t think they’ve ‘forgiven’ us but they’re more willing to listen to us now then they were at the time [of the election]. I think Labour’s getting treated pretty badly this time.
Advice for a young candidate:
I’d definitely recommend a young person runs for election. You’re never going to get experience like that in your life. I often got people saying ‘you’re too young’, but I said that you have to get the chance to earn that experience.
What she’s doing now:
I’m on the Carrickmacross Town Council in Co Monaghan, and I’m a masters student at Queens University studying sustainability. I’m still with the Green Party and have gotten more political in the meantime. I’m on the party’s National Executive Committee and I’m an international officer for the Young Greens. The Green Party is an international party and my role involves keeping up to date with what’s going on with the Greens in other countries and informing the other young party members about that.
On running again:
I honestly don’t know if I’d run again. I’ve no regrets as I learned more in two weeks [campaigning] than in studying politics in college. It gave me practical experience and I’m much more confident now, I don’t mind going on the radio and doing interviews whereas before I’d have been nervous. I don’t know if I’ll run again – it depends on what I’m doing. It also depends on how much stress I’d be willing to put myself under!
One thing she’d like to see this government do while in office:
I’d like to see more efficient, cheaper transport in rural areas. And I mean transport which moves away from fossil fuels and moves towards electric systems like electric trains. But I think this government has already shown that they’re not prioritising environmental issues.
Derek Nolan, Labour candidate in Galway West, 26 at time of #GE11
On the campaign:
It was extremely exciting and a lot of hard work – it was exhausting. I was a councillor so I’d run a campaign before, though Galway West is a huge constituency and it was a mammoth task getting around. I enjoyed it in both a personal sense and a political sense. People showed how hurt and angry they were. Some were angry at the previous government, while others were disenchanted with the political system and their anger went beyond any one particular party.
The party support [for the election campaign] is invaluable. I was nominated by my party to run and the party members in Galway West. I wouldn’t have been elected [to the Dáil] without them and their advice and their effort. There is a difference between running as an independent and a party member. When you’re independent, you’re representing yourself. There’s a bigger responsibility, I think, in running for the party because you’re representing both yourself and the party.
Advice for a young candidate:
Politics means something different to everybody. If someone is passionate and really interested, then they just need to get to work at it and put themselves forward. The country needs ambitious people driven by good ideas – it’s vitally important. And if they have the drive and energy and the good intention, then they need to go for it. I never defined myself by my age, it wasn’t a reason why I should or shouldn’t get a nomination. That’s what people need to do – don’t let age be a barrier.
What he’s doing now:
A lot of the first number of months was spent settling in and figuring out how things worked. There’s a number of parts to the job: firstly, working locally and staying on top of the issues be it schools or matters of administration. A second part is in the Dáil, working on pieces of legislation that I’m particularly interested in. I’m on the Public Accounts Committee which takes up a good bit of my time. Managing your diary takes a lot of work.
On running again:
At the moment, yes, I will run again. Though I’m sure it will be harder next time!
One thing he’d like to see this government do while in office:
I really think that [Minister of State at the Dept of Health] Roisin Shorthall’s work on primary care to bring in free GP care for everybody is hugely important. If the government does that alone it will be an enormous success and it would be a real change in the provision of healthcare in this country.
Padraig O’Sullivan, Independent candidate in Cork North Central, 26 at time of #GE11
On the campaign:
It was very difficult to run and the main difficulty was financial. I personally spend €9,500. I raised about €6,500, but it was a major drain. And the manpower involved was an issue as well. We had only about 15 people who worked on the campaign on a regular basis. I used to be a member of Fianna Fáil, but I left them because I became disillusioned over the IMF and the bailout. I had no intention of running with them. But I wouldn’t run again as an independent – being with a party would be preferable. Even just for canvassing, Labour or Fianna Fáil had about 10 to 15 people with them out on the streets and we’d have about four; it’s an advantage [to be with a party].
Advice for a young candidate:
If they really wanted to get involved, I’d encourage them to get involved, but it’s a very big ask. I personally wouldn’t recommend it unless their heart was really set on it. It’s a lot more demanding than I originally thought.
What he’s doing now:
I’m a qualified secondary school teacher, History, and I’m still teaching. I’m also finishing my Irish degree, I’ll have until Christmas this year to finish it, and I’m studying that in NUIG and UCC.
On running again:
I saw the general election as a stepping stone; I went with the intention of later running for the council in a few year’s time and I reached my target of 1,000 votes. I’m glad that I achieved my target and I do plan on running for the council election [in the Blarney electoral area]. I’m also involved with community associations and local groups. I have had one or two approaches from parties to run for them for the council.
One thing he’d like to see this government do while in office:
I think [campaign] posters should be banned outright because they’re a menace from every point of view – environmental, definitely, and also financial. I was quoted €20 per poster, compare than with a party probably getting them for €2 or €3. It definitely favours the larger parties.
Cian Prendiville, Socialist Party candidate in Limerick City, 21 at the time of #GE11
On the campaign:
The campaign was an excellent experience, it was the Socialist Party’s first time standing in Limerick City and it really put a radical left-wing alternative on the map in Limerick for the first time in a long time. Personally, I found it very interesting, to get to talk to so many people, discuss the crisis and the alternative with thousands of people.
Advice for a young candidate:
Well, to be honest, it’d depend. If a young FF, FG or Labour politician came to ask me for advice, I’d simply tell them to leave their parties as they are destroying this country and our future. I don’t really have time for making chit-chat with the establishment politicians, I didn’t do it during the election when we’d see each other and various events, and I won’t start now. It’s a cosy club, and you’re best staying out.
If a young, left-minded person approached me and said they were thinking of standing, for a genuine left group, or as an independent, I’d encourage them to do so. My advice would be to organise the campaign as systematically as possible. Have a public launch, get friends, family, like-minded people to all come along to an event where [you] can explain your plans, and give everyone the energy for the campaign. And right throughout the campaign, keep talking to all the activists, to keep them involved and enthusiastic.
What he’s doing now:
I am currently very much involved in the fight against the new Household and Septic Tank taxes, helping to build mass non-registration and non-payment of these unjust, gateway taxes. I am still an active member and organiser with the Socialist Party, and the United Left Alliance.
On running again:
Yes, I would be willing to stand again. I think a lot of people voted for change in the last election, but have been bitterly disappointed by the new government implementing the same cutbacks, bailouts and austerity measures as the last lot. I see it every day in the campaign against the household tax – people who voted for Labour or Fine Gael now disgusted with their antics. I think we need a real political alternative in this country, that stands up and fights in the interest of the millions, not the millionaires, and I will do everything I can to help build that alternative.
One thing he’d like to see this government do while in office:
I’d like to see them burn the bondholders and repudiate the debt – that is, refuse to pay one more cent to the bankers and speculators who caused this crisis. That could remove the shackle of unmanagable debt from the economy, and free money up for mass investment in public works etc to create decent jobs. Unfortunately, I don’t believe they are going to [do] anything good, at least not anything of real significance. If we want to see decent policies implemented, we’ll have to fight for them ourselves.
Liam Quinn, Fine Gael candidate in Laois-Offaly, 23 at the time of #GE11
On the campaign:
Well, I suppose it was my first general election campaign. I’d fought a local election in 2009, but everything about the general election was relatively new in that sense. It was very different from the local campaign. I didn’t find people overly-angry, but they were very serious and you had to know your polices and your party policies very well because people were asking very detailed and well-researched questions about healthcare, education and the budget.
You could count the number of bad canvassing experiences that I had on one hand. I was a new candidate, so that might have changed the situation – people maybe didn’t want to tar everyone with the same brush. People were very open and honest and as long as you had done your homework and were able to answer their questions then you got on fine. I thought people were more engaged in this election than would have been the case before and I found they had a definite grasp of the [economic] situation.
Advice for a young candidate:
First of all you have to have that raw hungry. I’d describe it as being a ‘political animal’. When I wake up in the morning, the first thing I’m thinking about is what I can do in the council, the people that I’m meeting that day, the work I’m going to get done, the meetings I’m going to attend. You have to have that raw hungry. If someone’s looking to run in elections, I’d advise them to get out there and get involved in campaigns and meet people. If you work hard for the community, they’ll support you.
What he’s doing now:
I’m a member of Offaly County Council and I’m on a number of different committees – the economic and planning committee, the rural water monitoring committee, the VEC. I’m also on voluntary committees around home.
On running again:
I haven’t ruled anything in or out yet. It took me the best part of a year to wind back down after the election, but if the time was right and the opportunity arose I’d be interested. We don’t know what’s going to happen with the redrawing of the constituency, so that could have a big influence on my decision.
One thing he’d like to see this government do while in office:
We can tweak budgets and get decisions right and wrong about expenditure, but if the government can go back to people at the end of this programme and say ‘we implemented a tough budget, but at the end of it we’re done with the IMF and we’re borrowing funds through international markets at a sustainable rate’, then I think that would be a very good thing and something people would be very happy to hear.
Kathryn Reilly, Sinn Féin candidate in Cavan-Monaghan, 22 at time of #GE11
On the campaign:
I think the best way to describe the campaign is ‘intense’. It was three weeks of intense campaigning and canvassing; you’d be in a different place in the morning, at lunch, in the afternoon and in the evening. I actually ended up crashing my car during the campaign. My brother brought it home and I went on canvassing. You couldn’t doubt the party support, between party structures in Cavan and Caoimhghín’s support as well. I went from having a very low profile in this constituency to having my face on posters, couple with any media opportunities that were available. The party was really helpful in finding me those opportunities.
People were very aware of the issues and very informed, they were asking questions about the bigger issues and not just local things. I think from a Sinn Féin point of view, we’re very fortunate that the political situation at the time was very favourable towards us so I was getting grilled on economic matters, whereas in a tradition election it would be more stuff from the past, the legacies. I noticed that more in the presidential election – it was a completely different kind of election.
Advice for a young candidate:
I’d definitely encourage them to run – if you’re into the issues and you have a position. It was a great experience. I know for example that being in the party was a lot of help, so it could depend on whether a young person had the party behind them [to run as a party candidate] because they could be fighting battles and not just one on the campaign. I think it’s a challenge worth taking up, and I think there’s an appetite among the public for a young, educated and well-informed candidate. And I think people are drifting away from party politics.
What she’s doing now:
I’m in the Seanad now and I’m the party spokesperson on EU affairs, which is one thing that you wouldn’t hear about as much because i’m a Senator and not in the Dáil. But i am an active member of the European affairs committee, so I’m hammering away at the EU affairs nationally. I’m also doing some things around Cavan locally.
On running again:
I hope I’d run again; we’ll see what the next few years bring with the Seanad abolition and that. My profile is getting a lot better in Cavan and Monaghan and hopefully when I put my name forward it would be accepted [by the party].
One thing she’d like to see this government do while in office:
I’d like to see a concerted action plan for youth unemployment and emigration. The government jobs plan only mentioned young people once. When you consider one in three young people is unemployed and emigrating, this is a big problem especially when they’re the ones with the skills and education that are needed here. We have to wonder why is there stuch a pull to Australia when we need those skills here, engineering and planning.
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If religion means that much to parents read the bible at home and just bring your kid to a mass and leave them take communion. .
Communion and confirmation is all about God, not dress up and not bouncy castles. If your priority is the dress up or the party then you are not inline with core catholic beliefs.
@Barry Somers: what do you care how other people raise their children? Do we have to run everything by Barry now?
@Seamus Mac: Once the Church is out of educational institutions you can start preaching about ‘how people care about raising others people’s children’. Until then you really shouldn’t point out how people outside the family home don’t have a say yeah?
@Diarmuid Hunt: if that is what the majority of parents want that will happen. Until then there is educate together in any reasonable sized population centre. Catholic schools aren’t exactly non inclusive anyway Diarmuid my old pal.
@Seamus Mac: Unfortunately not, many parents send their children to Catholic run schools because it is easier, because it is what their parents did and because they don’t actually realise the impact. I went to a non-denominational Gaelscoil and the amount of times I was excluded due to Catholicism being incorporated into the school time was ridiculous so your non-inclusivity argument is easy to make as a Catholic but not so much otherwise.
@Seamus Mac: There isn’t an Educate Together in every town, and neither are there enough in the cities as the high application rates attest. In addition, being tolerated to enrol in order to make up numbers to keep teachers in the local “Catholic” school, only to have to spend much of the day in the corridor to get away from the constant indoctrination of the Integrated Curriculum doesn’t count as “inclusive” to anyone but those protecting their privilege.
@Diarmuid Hunt: you have fantastic insight into parents motivations. How do you know all this?
@Seamus Mac: You first assumed to know that the reason they have not changed is based in parents motivations, how do you know it?
@Barry Somers: God. Lol. Believing in a deity is intelectually lazy in this day and age.
@Diarmuid Hunt: I didnt assume anything. I said if the majority of parents want religion out of schools then Im sure that would happen.
@Diarmuid Hunt: nailed it!!!
@Seamus Mac: It is happening. Something like that doesn’t happen overnight. But rest assured it is happening inexorably.
@Teddy Bear: Wow .. What an intellectually lazy comment.
@David Bohane: I don’t think so believing in a fairy that lives in the sky and grants wishes is pretty childish in this day and age
100 allowed attend a wedding. 50 allowed attend a funeral in the same venue. It just doesn’t make sense.
@sandra macken: but there is absolutely nothing time sensitive about a communion or confirmation. You cant compare it to a funeral in any way, that must happen, there is a corpse. Any weddings I am aware of happening under the current restrictions have a reason to get married, be it illness, legality, visa deadlines or pregnancy. Perhaps that is just those I know of and there is this world of weddings occurring across the country daily or perhaps weddings are few and far between. But there is a huge difference between getting married or buried and making the communion/confirmation.
@Sarah Lou: I thought it was about health and safety. Number of people in a particular venue practicing safe socially distanced gatherings.
@sandra macken: I would imagine its more about necessity and volume. Weddings and funerals are necessary. No one can argue the same about communions and confirmations.
@Sarah Lou: You could, from a religious standpoint, make an argument for communion and confirmation in a terminally ill child. That would require two present, the child and the priest, I’d prefer a parent or guardian was present personally though.
@Sarah Lou: That really is open to your own interpretation of what is necessary or not.
@Diarmuid Hunt: And to be fair diarmuid no more than baptisms if there was a time sensitive reason I am sure it is occurring and very few would take issue with it. That is an exception. Sandra is making out that i am unreasonable with my argument and interpreting things to suit myself, I am just being realistic. plenty of time of communions and confirmations after we can get the kids back to school and keep society open at the same time. Most people who dont agree with that just want to have a child communed or confirmed.
@sandra macken: Everything about the Roman religion is a matter of “interpretation”, since there is no evidence to corroborate their stories.
@Sarah Lou: I never thought you were unreasonable. I am only stating the difference between numbers congregating in the same venue with the same restrictions in place.
@sandra macken: it is about the after parties
@sandra macken: The events that are reopening though are mainly open to smaller groups of adults, with plenty of caution involved. They aren’t generally big gatherings of unprotected young children.
@sandra macken: It makes absolute sense if you care to think about it
No one is stopping you just do it by yourself.
It is very important to respect the freedom of (and/or from) religion. Every religion should be allowed to have the right to congregate indoors to the same extent as the rest of the population are at regular events. Wedding and funeral numbers would be appropriate for communion/confirmation numbers since all are (with the possible exception of weddings) are a once off event for the individual. If 50 can attend a funeral then 50 should be able to attend a communion/confirmation which would be about 16 children and their parents and the priest. If it truly just about your faith that should be enough.
@Diarmuid Hunt: All of that said religions should respect others’ right not to be impacted by them in any way shape or form and should step back from education, healthcare and politics (especially politics [Matt 22:21; John 17:16; 1 John 2:15; Matt 6:24]). For the love of God if you’re Catholic or Christian and don’t have a Bible get one, read it and study it.
@Diarmuid Hunt: it’s not the communions or confirmations they are worried about it’s the party gatherings that go with them
@Diarmuid Hunt: pubs are open Diarmuid. No reason for any restrictions in a large high ceilinged building when all the vulnerable have been vaccinated.
@Eileen Downing: I understand that, unfortunately you can’t really account for that. The communions and confirmations should be able to go ahead as much as it pains me to say it. The parties afterwards are not the fault of the communions or confirmations themselves but of negligent people. If the people truly have faith they should only be thinking of the importance of the rite and not the party afterwards. If they are only in it for the party then both the RCC and in this case the government should call them out for such.
@Seamus Mac: Séamus, my old friend, I call for Churches to be held to the same standard as everyone else and it is still not good enough for you. Gatherings are limited, there are restrictions on pubs and restaurants. Some churches are tiny some are massive, all with fairly high ceilings due to the labour of the layperson to be fair, maybe a percentage capacity would be better but the same could be said of every other gathering. If you don’t want to be held to the same standard as every other gathering but want to be ‘special’ then you are advocating for a privileged position of your religion over all other and/or none. Have you read the verses I mentioned? I do hope you own a bible.
@Diarmuid Hunt: restrictions in the pubs?? Did you venture anywhere near one last weekend? Genesis 19:24 comes to mind.
@Seamus Mac: No I didn’t venture anywhere near a pub last weekend? How do you know so much about the goings on in pubs last weekend? Also Gen 19:24 – where God didn’t like people having fun or being gay and decided to kill them all? “Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven” – You’re bringing that up?
@Diarmuid Hunt: it was a joke Diarmuid as you well know. Are Catholics not allowed into pubs for some reason?
@Seamus Mac: It was only a joke after I pointed out how ridiculous the point and verse were, but I, at least, find it quite funny.
@Diarmuid Hunt: it was a joke when I compared an Irish bank holiday weekend to Gomorrah Diarmuid.
@Seamus Mac: I’m sure Séamus. Also why are we know adding each other’s names in comments Séamus? Seems Kind of strange since the @ at the start really has that task fairly well covered Séamus.
@Diarmuid Hunt: ill stop if you do
@Seamus Mac: No bother. Earlier I said it affably as I do actually enjoy our encounters. As for the above you said you were sure that it would happen if parents wanted it which means you assume parents want it to be part of their children’s education. Anyway it matters not, I enjoyed our talks again this evening, if you haven’t already got one then invest in a Bible and study it you will learn a lot.
@Diarmuid Hunt: apologies for misunderstanding you. Talk to you again hopefully.
Its because the parents of these children are inviting up to 40 people at a time to whatever after event they have after the mass. All for one child having to go through a superstitious ritual that is completely nonsensical in the 21st century. Religion is so odd.
The common right not to be recklessly endangered by the actions of others comes ahead of the right of religious observance (and a great many others) in my view.
@Steve O’Hara-Smith: pubs at the weekend were pretty reckless but it the church everyone is talking about?
@Steve O’Hara-Smith: Not only does that common right exist, but since such “reckless endangerment” is (arguably) immoral, A44 supports such limitations as now exist.
@Steve O’Hara-Smith: “The common right not to be recklessly endangered by the actions of others”
Where do you derive this common right from?
It’s open ended and undefinable. Some people feel endangered by loud noises.
The government has said that up to 50 people may gather for public prayer, in a church, a synagogue, a mosque, or similar venue, provided guidelines on distancing, etc., are observed. It is their right and duty to set public health guidelines. However, I do not believe they have the right to dictate what form the public prayer takes, or to interfere with any service that complies with their guidelines. Surely this is the freedom of religion that the constitution protects?
I believe the figure of 100 for a wedding relates to the reception not the ceremony. Which makes concern about ‘after sacrament’ parties somewhat odd. Plus many of the parties went ahead in June / July, because they were ‘organised and paid for and sure don’t we deserve it …’
@Pharmy: They have no right to dictate the form you are right. Does the 50 person limit somehow dictate the form?
@Pharmy: Disregarding the second half of your comment and after a 3rd and 4th read I’m pretty sure I actually agree with you.
@Diarmuid Hunt: is that surprise? We both seem to be logical individuals so, yes, I agree with some of what you said too. To answer your question the number of attendees does not impact on form or rite of worship in a Catholic context. The minimum number for a mass is two (the priest and another), the most I think was 5 million, but I’m open to correction. The rite of the mass is essentially the same in both cases. If only families who want the sacrament attend, and several time slots are made available, then keeping it under 50 (& safe) should be easy. At least then the atmosphere is prayer not party …
Yawn… Why should religion be treated any different from other “group events”?
@Sana Diwan: what, like sporting events which are allowed to happen? Or weddings?? Or Baptisms?
Hmmm. The Assistant Professor omits that A44 renders religion as a contingent right, not an absolute one. The wording “Freedom of conscience and the free profession and practice of religion are, subject to public order and morality, guaranteed to every citizen” makes clear that limitations are envisaged. Further, the restrictions on mixing do not hinder individual citizens from practicing their religion individually or in household or other familial groups. In any event, the right (contingent as it may be) is of the living, breathing, individual, not of a Church building, or of a local organiser of such religion such as a priest, or of a foreign Monarchy and crime syndicate operating tax-free in the guise of a religion.
@Fachtna Roe: “The State guarantees not to endow or favour any religion and not to discriminate on the grounds of religion”
If gatherings are allowed in other settings but not religious ones then you are favouring one group over another. You are discriminating on the grounds of religion and cannot make the argument that the public good is being protected.
If people can meet up for drinks, for food , for concerts, for protests etc. then the ban on religious gatherings is purely discriminatory.
@Will: To start with, you have conflated and misquoted. That error recurs in your logic: the varying nature of “gatherings” isn’t allowed for. 4 adults going for a meal, at arms-length from each other, is not the same as 40 *children* from different households, with attendant adults, fidgeting and fooling about. That’s a textbook super-spreader event. After which – at the meal – comes the immediate spreading into another public environment of whatever was shared around at the first gathering. It’s not really too difficult to comprehend the risk to the “public good” if one thinks about it clearly. In addition, you should note that baptisms are re-starting as they do not include the same level of mixing. Weddings, similarly. Both of those, being religious, invalidate your hypothesis.
@Fachtna Roe: The Constitution is clear. You cannot discriminate on grounds of religion unless in the public good. This can’t be for the public good because other indoor gatherings are allowed up to 50 people. It’s as simple as that really. Everything beyond that is just your own attempt at justifying a ban that isn’t supported by our Constitution which is why it’s not the law, just guidelines.
Inventing scenarios in your own head of a possible super spreader event is tabloid journalism, not a logical argument.
The Church have said they will keep these ceremonies under the same limits as other gatherings and with the same precautions.
They should be allowed the same rights as any other group.
@Will: “The Church have said”? That’s the same Church who after getting a sweet deal said they’d contribute to a redress scheme, but didn’t? The same Church that said “do unto others”, while brutalising generations of children? The same Church that said don’t “covet thy neighbour’s wife”, preached immaculate conceptions, yet systematically raped defenseless children? The same Church that preached that slavery was wrong, but sold children? The same Church that said it will try a Cardinal for dipping into the personal slush fund of Don Bergoglio, but hasn’t taken similar action against the pedophiles in it’s midst? There’s one of us is gullible, with lots of imaginary and invented scenarios in their head, but no rational person would confuse which of us that is. Shame, not support, is apt.
Freedom to have schooling and every part of the civil service entirely Religion free is far more important.
@David Grey: Correct
Why do people have to go to a church to pray if they believe God is everywhere ?
@Gerry in London: Because it’s not just about praying. It’s about getting the Eucharist which is one of the seven sacraments of the Catholic church.
@Podge: And … the collections.
@Podge: the eucharist is akin to teaching cannibalism.
@Shay Leonard: It’s not akin, it actually _is_.
This is nothing to do with religion. It’s all about the money. The party and dressing up.. If. I was a Catholic bishop I would be worried. The sacraments is meaningless if they was a secular alternative . No one would pick a cold and drafty church over a nice hotel or venue.
Are they banning 1st confessions? it’s strange that they can’t allow communion during normal Sundays
Confirmation of what? Communion with what?
Why don’t the Catholic Church fight as hard fr partners to be allowed into Maternity Hospitals .???? Because there’s no money in it that’s why ! You don’t see any other faiths complaining .
Yes, it’s very important to allow the contagious Covid-19 delta variant freedom of assembly so that it can spread and infect yet more people.
If the health advice keeps the children out of the hands of paedophiles that will be an added benefit.
The simple truth is that parents cant be trusted not to have parties or drag their kids from relation to relation looking for the infamous communion money which for my class was the most important thing about the whole farce. Who got the most money?
The Catholic church has a history of ignoring the laws of this country
Reporting child abuse for starters, So wats new with a so-called spiritual leaders
You cannot be moral and believe in god there I said it
@Simon Fusco: “You cannot be moral and believe in god there I said it”
Trying to hard to be edgy there Simon.
Oh, and you’re wrong which would be obvious to anyone who lives in the real world.
@Will: I don’t think slavery is good god does I don’t think misogyny is good god does I don’t think child molestation is good god does. Do you believe in god because if you do you believe all of that is good too. Oh wow I’m so edgy pointing out how immoral you are.
@Will: oh no response how expected
The church want 50 people so let work it out, one parent per child, no make it two and the grandparents that 7 people, so 7 children make their communion with 1 priest and an alter boy.
They would have to be doing the 24 a day on 8 hour shifts for the priests and alter boys
The problem is not the church service, its the parties afterwards which is where religion plays second fiddle and is in fact forgotten.
The hierarchy as usual have no clue.
Bring on the superspreader events
have your say