Advertisement

We need your help now

Support from readers like you keeps The Journal open.

You are visiting us because we have something you value. Independent, unbiased news that tells the truth. Advertising revenue goes some way to support our mission, but this year it has not been enough.

If you've seen value in our reporting, please contribute what you can, so we can continue to produce accurate and meaningful journalism. For everyone who needs it.

'I've had to tell more people in the last few months than in my entire life' - Man denied Public Services Card because he's adopted

“This shambolic process is now making me feel like a second class citizen – I’m being treated unequally because I’m adopted.”

shutterstock_705783832 File photo Shutterstock Shutterstock

Updated 1.20pm

AN IRISH MAN has been denied a Public Services Card (PSC) because he’s adopted and his birth certificate isn’t considered sufficient proof of identity.

TheJournal.ie has learned that the PSC expansion process is being used by the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection (DEASP) to confirm and update its own birth/adoption database with data from the General Register Office, responsibility for which was recently transferred to DEASP from the Department of Health.

In early July, the man attended a scheduled appointment at an Intreo centre to register for the controversial card.

While there, he was informed by a DEASP official that he couldn’t be found on the State’s birth register, despite presenting with his short-form birth certificate.

He asked to speak in a private meeting room given the personal nature of the information he was about to impart – and informed the officer that he is adopted.

“They told me that as I don’t have my long-form birth certificate (which is denied to adopted persons) I need an adoption certificate and that I would have to apply for one,” he told TheJournal.ie.

4 (2) A Public Services Card

“The whole thing was completely unprofessional, I wrote into them after and asked what would have happened if I hadn’t known I was adopted. There are certainly people in Ireland who don’t know.”

The man informed the DEASP officials that he was unwilling to apply for an adoption certificate due to the personal and sensitive nature of the process (his own children are unaware that he was an adopted child).

Under existing legislation, an adopted adult does not have automatic access to their original, long-form birth certificate, the reason for this being that it contains information about the birth mother who has a right to confidentiality.

Responding to queries from TheJournal.ie about how this case would have been handled if the applicant did not know they were adopted, the DEASP said that its staff would not be aware of somebody’s adoption status.

A spokesperson explained that if somebody’s birth registration details cannot be located, they are asked to contact the General Register Office. It would be at this point that somebody’s adopted status would be revealed.

‘I don’t want to be battling over this’

“They asked me to apply for a card in the first place, I took time off work to do it because I thought I was doing my civic duty,” he said. “And if we have to get it I want to get it now, not in six months. I don’t want to be battling over pension payments and the like when I’m 80.

I don’t want to get an adoption cert, it’s as simple as that. They have my birth cert, that’s sufficient for everything else, why not this? I’m married, I have a passport and a driving licence. Why do I need this cert?
And why have I had to tell more people in the last few months that I’m adopted than I had to do in my entire life up to this point? I’m a private person, I pay my bills, this is a personal decision that they shouldn’t be allowed force on someone.

Over the following nine weeks, the man pressed his case (and lodged an official complaint regarding how he was treated) with DEASP.

In a thread of email correspondence seen by TheJournal.ie, the man requests, given the personal and sensitive nature of the issue, to be given access to internal correspondence concerning his case and the direct contact details of those dealing with it, so as “to avoid having to further tell the world and its wife about my situation”.

He is informed in response that he will have to apply for such data under Freedom of Information – a process that takes a month minimum.

1

Click here to view a larger image

When the man queried this statement, the DEASP official dealing with his complaint doubled down and insisted that the information he requested could only be granted via Freedom of Information, and likewise that his Public Services Card application can only be completed by him obtaining an adoption certificate:

“Once again it is regretted that your experience while applying for a Public Services Card appears to have caused stress and upset,” a reply dated late July reads.

We cannot process your PSC application without your adoption certificate. Once you have your adoption certificate please contact me… to arrange the completion of your Public Services Card application.

The ensuing thread of communication suggests that, within the local Intreo office in question, there is a deal of confusion as to what officer should take responsibility for the issue, and as to whether or not the problem could even be rectified at local office level.

The need for an adoption certificate is outlined on the requirements section on the Public Services Card section of the State’s Citizens Information website. The reason as to why an adoption cert is necessary is not made clear however – for all other citizens a passport or driving licence is considered sufficient, let alone a citizen’s short-form birth certificate.

DEASP explains that the adoption certificate is required to verify identity “to a high level of assurance” but that somebody’s adoption status is “not a piece of data held on the PSC or related Public Service Identity dataset”.

Three weeks later in mid-August the man received a letter from the same DEASP official stating that his complaint had been closed due to it being dealt with “in the allotted timeframe”, which he dismissed in his own reply as “an absolute misrepresentation of the clear facts”.

He notes that “if I didn’t know I was adopted this process is forcing me very insensitively to recognise this”.

“How would my case be handled if I didn’t know I was adopted?”

“May I also note from your own letter inviting me to apply for this card that under forms of ID items deemed ‘not acceptable’ the short version of the birth cert is not listed as one of these items. This I have provided to your office and this LEGAL document has been accepted for any other applications I have ever had to make and it is not clear why this LEGAL document isn’t acceptable for this process.”

‘Second class citizen’

This process is now making me feel like a second-class citizen as I have provided everything anyone else is required to provide, but because I’m adopted, I’m been treated unequally in this shambolic process.

2

Click here to view a larger image

The man has since escalated his complaint to the State Ombudsman. That case remains outstanding.

DEASP’s initial response to the man’s complaint, delivered 16 days after his initial appointment, stated that the need for an adoption certificate has resulted from the General Register Office (GRO) of births, adoptions, and deaths being transferred to DEASP from the Department of Health.

“It is through the Public Services Card process that the Department is confirming and updating the birth/adoption information held on our IT systems with the record from GRO,” that response reads.

The response adds that PSC officials have access to birth records at their stations, but not adoption records, hence the need for an adoption certificate.

A short-form birth certificate does not prove the holder is adopted so the adoption certificate is required.

The legal basis for this particular process is not outlined, which is something of a persistent criticism of all aspects of the PSC’s current expansion. A query to the Data Protection Commissioner on the matter was referred back to Social Protection.

“Information is shared between DEASP and the GRO on the basis that the GRO is a specified body under Schedule 5 of the Social Welfare Consolidation Act 2005 (as amended).”

GRO also operates under the aegis of this department. GRO transferred to DEASP from the Department of Health on 1 January 2008.

A spokesperson added that the information required to verify the Public Service Identity Dataset includes date of birth, place of birth and mother’s birth surname – information generally taken from the birth cert, birth registration details or adoption cert. If a person doesn’t have access to their long-form birth cert, they will need to contact the GRO or acquire an adoption cert to be able to complete the PSC process.

“The reason I am not going to let this go is I would not like to think of someone else having to endure this process or that their life could be turned upside down if they didn’t know they were adopted,” the man now says of his ongoing case.

I’ve done everything in my power to get it over the line, but every time I contacted them I felt like I was being stonewalled.

“Department staff endeavour to always deal with all customers in a professional and courteous manner,” a DEASP spokesperson told TheJournal.ie when asked for comment on the man’s case.

PSC

“The Department is disappointed to hear of any customers who are unhappy with our service and aims to provide a… registration process that is clear, efficient and
straightforward for customers. We also wish to provide our customers with a complaints procedure that is accessible, efficient, effective and fair.”

When asked as to why there is such a lack of flexibility with regard to adopted people and the PSC registration process, the spokesperson insists that “adopted people are treated in the same way as other individuals in terms of verification of identity”.

“Date of birth, place of birth and mother’s birth surname are generally verified from the birth certificate or, in the case of an adopted person, from an adoption certificate.”

However, non-adopted people can get through the registration process for a PSC using just a driving licence or passport.

As regards how people are being targeted for invitations to obtain a PSC (as is currently the case across the country), the department says that the process is limited to those “who have had claims under social welfare schemes”, and also to those “who have had a driving licence issued recently”.

This article was updated with further responses from the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection. 

Read: ‘Have you tried actually applying for something with the Public Services Card? It’s a painful experience’

Read: Revenue threatens to dock public servant’s pay over a property they’d never heard of

Readers like you are keeping these stories free for everyone...
A mix of advertising and supporting contributions helps keep paywalls away from valuable information like this article. Over 5,000 readers like you have already stepped up and support us with a monthly payment or a once-off donation.

Close
106 Comments
This is YOUR comments community. Stay civil, stay constructive, stay on topic. Please familiarise yourself with our comments policy here before taking part.
Leave a Comment
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Toddimus Maximus
    Favourite Toddimus Maximus
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:00 PM

    By my maths, when broken and sold in ounces it’s worth about €650,000. I dunno where the drug squad is selling their weed but with a street value like that you’d make a killing. Seriously though how do they estimate it?

    295
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute MaryLou(ny)McDonald
    Favourite MaryLou(ny)McDonald
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:01 PM

    Todd…you want us to trust pothead maths…aha aha haaaaaaa

    45
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Cupid Stunt
    Favourite Cupid Stunt
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:03 PM

    they break it down into street deals, like a tenners worth, I was caught years ago and disputed the amount.

    153
    See 8 more replies ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Sacha Mahady
    Favourite Sacha Mahady
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:05 PM

    It’s revenue. Have you included vat and ufc. I bet they did.

    99
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Sacha Mahady
    Favourite Sacha Mahady
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:06 PM

    U S C Stupid fat fingers.

    113
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Toddimus Maximus
    Favourite Toddimus Maximus
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:07 PM

    Why would they include VAT?

    20
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Uncle Monty
    Favourite Uncle Monty
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:08 PM

    Looks like 20€ a gram which is down from their normal 25€ a gram estimations. I never paid more than 14.2857143 € a gram and that’s even too expensive. Sherry?

    73
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Sacha Mahady
    Favourite Sacha Mahady
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:09 PM

    Seriously Todd. ??

    22
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Toddimus Maximus
    Favourite Toddimus Maximus
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:20 PM

    Haha sorry

    26
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Jack Bowden
    Favourite Jack Bowden
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 7:08 PM

    Maybe you should buy lots of it at that price and then bulk it out with traditional Irish ingredients and then create a brand and market it. Sell it as a quality Irish product.

    22
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Linda Whelan
    Favourite Linda Whelan
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 10:20 PM

    @cupid stunt did you get away with it?? lol

    6
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Wang King
    Favourite Wang King
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:17 PM

    Who the f@ck sends that much stink in the post?

    178
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Mick Jordan
    Favourite Mick Jordan
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 7:24 PM

    An Idiot.

    112
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Charlie Melia
    Favourite Charlie Melia
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 10:33 PM

    The question is…. How many packages like this get away each month that someone no matter how stupid thought it was possible…….

    55
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Rod_TenⒸ
    Favourite Rod_TenⒸ
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 5:56 PM

    People should just grow their own

    176
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Supernova
    Favourite Supernova
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 5:59 PM

    I doubt people are going to grow 1.2mill worth for personal use

    72
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute MaryLou(ny)McDonald
    Favourite MaryLou(ny)McDonald
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:01 PM

    Hi Rod…which other laws should people disobey? who gets to choose the laws we can disobey?

    You like pot I like to drive at great speed and overtake everyone and treat the roads like a personal race track…hey chill it’s ok, you ignore the laws around cannabis and i’ll ignore the ones around speeding.

    40
    See 13 more replies ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Toddimus Maximus
    Favourite Toddimus Maximus
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:03 PM

    You overtaking, speeding and treating the road like a race track is a danger to yourself and others. Weed is not.

    248
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Cupid Stunt
    Favourite Cupid Stunt
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:05 PM

    that’s a really bad analogy Mary Lou.

    190
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Rod_TenⒸ
    Favourite Rod_TenⒸ
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:05 PM

    Lock ‘em and throw away the key, like it.

    14
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Rod_TenⒸ
    Favourite Rod_TenⒸ
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:06 PM

    Or just change some antiquated laws

    92
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Diarmuid Doran
    Favourite Diarmuid Doran
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:08 PM

    Mary Lou , the law is ridiculous .How many deaths caused by cannabis in Ireland ? 0 ?
    How many caused by alcohol and tobacco ?

    Take it out of the hands of the dealers , small amounts/quota of plants legal for home use.Commercial amounts for medical use etc taxed with proceeds to health service etc ?

    Garda resources freed up .

    Or is that too much sense for a troll account ?

    169
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Matt Beaumont
    Favourite Matt Beaumont
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:17 PM

    @Marylou

    Worst analogy ever!

    101
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute VinHeffer89
    Favourite VinHeffer89
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:26 PM

    Danger level to the public allowing you to drive like a lunatic: high Danger level to the public by allowing someone to smoke a relatively harmless plant on the privacy of their own home; nil

    70
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Daniel O'Neill
    Favourite Daniel O'Neill
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:32 PM

    please do Mary Lou and then we can evaluate who causes a bigger risk to public safety :) the stoner or the Muppet driving a ton of steel dangerously ……

    59
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Jenny
    Favourite Jenny
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:36 PM

    Are you in to extreme gardening? How is growing and tending to pants as Rod suggested comparable to you using the road as a personal race track? They might be comparable if you’re high as kite?

    31
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Randy Rarely
    Favourite Randy Rarely
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 7:27 PM

    marylouny disobey unjust laws. sitting at home cultivating a plant and enjoying its fruits is nowhere near speeding in a jam jar putting peoples lives at risk. man.

    36
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Cupid Stunt
    Favourite Cupid Stunt
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 8:01 PM

    Mary Lou, I reckon if you want to drive around on a racetrack on your own and in a safe environment it’s fair enough, I’d have no real issue with that and wouldn’t consider it my business. you’d be well aware of the personal risks involved and as an adult could make an informed decision for yourself. or how about I just tell you what to do. what would you prefer?

    29
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Cannabis Freedom
    Favourite Cannabis Freedom
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 11:14 PM

    @Mary Lou – Who gets to choose the laws we can disobey?

    I think the more important question that needs to be answered is, who should have the power to prohibit the use of nature? Especially considering the many benefits that the cannabis plant has to offer if used properly, it’s both insane & criminal that our government (or any other for that matter) deny us the use of this medicinal herb.

    17
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Ivan Ó Sirideáin
    Favourite Ivan Ó Sirideáin
    Report
    Aug 6th 2015, 10:55 AM

    Haha your the dope here

    2
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kevin Hayes
    Favourite Kevin Hayes
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:04 PM

    €1.2 million for 20kg is €60 per gram. Nonsense. You’d have to be drunk to pay that. No stoner would.

    83
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Ivan Edge
    Favourite Ivan Edge
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:08 PM

    €15 a gram would be a decent enough deal. €50 bags usually weigh between 2.5 – 3 grams

    33
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kevin Hayes
    Favourite Kevin Hayes
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 10:48 PM

    @ the druid- u r correct. My bad. Lesson is – shouldn’t vape, read and post. €20 per gram is high but it is a reasonable number to use from a self-aggrandizing government agency viewpoint. The real story is – why bother? Leave marijuana alone – in 5 to 10 years it will be at least decriminalized, preferably legalized, in Ireland

    7
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute David Grey
    Favourite David Grey
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:56 PM

    You wait, drone technology is developing very fast, sooner or later there will be drone deliveries everywhere and no dealers in sight! Time for the Government to concentrate on facts and research – ban alcohol advertising, get tougher on tobacco and decriminalise personal users and spend all the saved money on treating addicts of harmful drugs and pharmaceutical drugs such as Heroin and it’s cousin Codeine! There are many people with very sick children moving to Colorado because they can get medical grade cannabis to stop epileptic seizures which conventional medicines do little for while medical cannabis by enlarge reduces significantly or even stops altogether! If one of my kids had severe seizures I would try anything that was safe, might prevent brain damage, extend life and give a chance to live free of pain and the chains of Pharmaceutical medicine which usually has nasty side effects!

    72
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Mark Cullen
    Favourite Mark Cullen
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:50 PM

    Of course lads are going to carelessly throw ‘€1.2 million’ worth of it in the post.
    They probably sent 10x more that weren’t caught and it probably cost them less than €10,000 to produce the whole lot.

    41
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute graham galvin
    Favourite graham galvin
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:00 PM

    Somebody? Surely there is an address on the boxes….

    27
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Michael Sands
    Favourite Michael Sands
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:11 PM

    An Eircode return address but I think that they are safe enough lol.

    37
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Paul Dunne
    Favourite Paul Dunne
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:00 PM

    F:;king clowns

    19
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Tap Solny
    Favourite Tap Solny
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:08 PM

    Nice work Customs. Customs protecting clowns from themselves.

    14
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Diarmuid Doran
    Favourite Diarmuid Doran
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:21 PM

    Troll , Pat Lyons/Mary Lou/ etc etc , your opinion counts for diddly squat.

    61
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Toddimus Maximus
    Favourite Toddimus Maximus
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:21 PM

    Good to hear you’re safe

    23
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kizzi Yeates
    Favourite Kizzi Yeates
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 7:44 PM

    The Great Leader Would Bring In A Fortune If He Legalised Or made Medical Marajuana Avaiable…

    12
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kizzi Yeates
    Favourite Kizzi Yeates
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 7:46 PM

    And Jobs Think Of those Poor Opressed Farmers Who grow this instead of Hedges ….

    7
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kizzi Yeates
    Favourite Kizzi Yeates
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 7:46 PM

    Could :)

    2
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Paul O'Brien
    Favourite Paul O'Brien
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 9:17 PM

    Dammit, there goes my party plan for the weekend. Have to send out for a few cans instead :-(

    6
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Paul Culligan
    Favourite Paul Culligan
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 7:05 PM

    20 Kilo? Why don’t the use the term ‘Stone’?

    6
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Michael Sands
    Favourite Michael Sands
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:08 PM

    It was really €1.75 million worth really lol.

    6
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kevin Hayes
    Favourite Kevin Hayes
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:13 PM

    really?

    9
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Michael Sands
    Favourite Michael Sands
    Report
    Aug 6th 2015, 12:18 AM

    Really, really was, lol.

    1
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Colette Kearns
    Favourite Colette Kearns
    Report
    Aug 5th 2015, 6:09 PM

    Doped!

    5
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute IRL77
    Favourite IRL77
    Report
    Aug 6th 2015, 12:33 AM

    Oops!!

    1
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute IRL77
    Favourite IRL77
    Report
    Aug 6th 2015, 12:25 AM

    Oops!!!

    1
Submit a report
Please help us understand how this comment violates our community guidelines.
Thank you for the feedback
Your feedback has been sent to our team for review.

Leave a commentcancel

 
JournalTv
News in 60 seconds